Re: [Marxism] [microsound] The awful truth about Social Democracy
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Sewn up and bagged? Really? Why even bother to analyze anything, to criticize, explicate, even predict what capitalism must do next, since it's all been done. Can you tell me where Marx actually provides a complete theory of crisis? An explanation of overproduction with historical detail such as he produces in vol 1 concerning the conditions in British factories? As a matter of fact, that is exactly what is not sewn up, as sewing it up is a practical, class activity. There's nothing strange about this, since there are no mysterious ways to Marx's dialectic. And whatever the so-called proponents of dialectics might find interesting, Marxists find the actual manifestations of the processes Marx described, analyzed-- but hardly sewed up-- like the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, like the contradiction between means and relations of production, like the transformation of accumulation itself into an obstacle to further accumulation much more interesting, much more Marxist, then parsing commas. Has something to do with those Theses on Feuerbach, I think. - Original Message - From: "New Tet" Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [microsound] The awful truth about Social Democracy
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == S. Artesian wrote: > > > Rosa is an ignoramus who hasn't read Marx, except for the preface to Vol > 1, > and she distorts that. Her methodology is 3Ds and an S: denial, > distortion, > disavowal and sophistry. > > Ask her any thing about the labor process, about the relationship of > wage-labor to capital, about the accumulation of capital and the tendency > of > the rate of profit to decline and all you get back is how she "doesn't > have > to do that, because Marx did it for us." And right she is! What else could puny Rosa add to something that more clever people than her have pretty much sewn up and bagged? Also, I would think that any proponent of dialectics would be more eager to debate the "mysterious ways" of dialectics with an Anti-dialectics than the boring topic of declining rates of profit, no? Strange. Why is that, that lack of response significant? Because those are the > issues where dialectic resides; because that's the transposition of the > dialectic from Hegel's "spirit" to the actual social organization of labor > that Marx executes. As I understand it, Marx's investigations into capitalist economic relations rely on the materialist conception of history, not on some mystical mumbo-jumbo of "thesis, antithesis, etc." It's the materialist conception of history, applied to the arithmetic of capitalism and its social evolution, I believe, that places Marxism firmly in the realm of science, where it belongs. It's not a philosophy of logic Marx is deploying, it's the analysis of the > real content of history. What is this "real content of history", please? Or are you saying that just to bewitch me, oh Wizard? She's a total phony. If I had known that my previous comment on a silly statement would elicit abuse of a person of the left that isn't here to defend herself I would have kept it to myself. No matter. It is a well known fact that it's not just the capitalists and their minions who prefer to insult and belittle those who would dare disagree with them. -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/-Marxism--The-awful-truth-about-Social-Democracy-tp28074046p28078067.html Sent from the Marxism mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] militias
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It has nothing to do with whether or not the the ruling class wants to play with fascism. It's a question of the economic forces that appear as threats to the petty-bourgeoisie and the willingness of the big bourgeoisie to use those forces-- just like they think the Republicans think they can use the tea-baggers to restore a new round of Reaganism. This doesn't means fascism is right around the corner, or is lurking everywhere. It does mean you have the attorney general of Kansas singling out, actually fingering a doctor who then gets shot by an anti-abortionist. It does mean you get right wingers cutting gas lines to homes they think belong to Democratic congressmen, and the Republican leader doesn't express outrage at the criminal conduct, doesn't call it terrorism but "urges" those well-meaning patriots to "put their anger to work." - Original Message - From: "Mark Lause" Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [microsound] The awful truth about Social Democracy
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Rosa is an ignoramus who hasn't read Marx, except for the preface to Vol 1, and she distorts that. Her methodology is 3Ds and an S: denial, distortion, disavowal and sophistry. Ask her any thing about the labor process, about the relationship of wage-labor to capital, about the accumulation of capital and the tendency of the rate of profit to decline and all you get back is how she "doesn't have to do that, because Marx did it for us." Why is that, that lack of response significant? Because those are the issues where dialectic resides; because that's the transposition of the dialectic from Hegel's "spirit" to the actual social organization of labor that Marx executes. It's not a philosophy of logic Marx is deploying, it's the analysis of the real content of history. She's a total phony. - Original Message - From: "New Tet" Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] militias
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == All my life, I've been hearing about the danger from the Right...especially around election time Again, if you strip away the loud mouths who like going into the woods, eating bar-b-q and shooting off their guns, there are really a very limited number of real hard core bat shit crazies. Most of them hold multiple memberships that sustain such organizations. There's just no necessity--as Louis and others have pointed out--for the American ruling class to play with fascism in any serious way. There's just nothing in it for them ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Shame on the Arg "Left" and their behavior on March 24th
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Those interested in a biased but not inaccurate (particularly as to what happened on March 24th last in May Square, Buenos Aires) rendering of the lunacy and politically suicidal behavior of the anti-Peronist "Left" these days (in Spanish, sorry), please refer to http://www.rodolfowalsh.org/spip.php?article1823 The author is a left wing Peronist, so that the article has some bias against the "Left" (though it also explains the reasons of that bias) and it makes some mistakes, like generalizations of the position of the Arg Comm Party which were not always as widespread as this report comments. However, the general picture is not wrong though blurred in the details. And perhaps those who actually want to know what bad service this "left" makes to any revolution (not to speak of "socialism") in Argentina will realize this by carefully reading what did they do to the Mothers and Grandmothers of Plaza de Mayo when they discovered that these women would not bend to their wishes. The bias against the "Left" is the first thing serious revolutionary Marxists in Argentina have to deal with when talking to the working class. THAT is the service this "Left" is making to foreign imperialism. Either by stupidity or other reasons. The results are simple: establishing a gap as wide as possible between the workers and Marxism. -- Néstor Gorojovsky El texto principal de este correo puede no ser de mi autoría Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [microsound] The awful truth about Social Democracy
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I slipped away last week on a short research trip to the Boston area. The flight back was surreal, to say the least. I wound up sitting next to a young student who going to visit friends in the Midwest. She told me how they tended to be very left-wing. I wasn't wearing a button or anything that might have given away my own politics, so what were the chances, eh? Then, after switching planes, another student boarded the same with a shirt that had a clenched fist and the slogan "Workers, Unite!" By the time I got home, I was basking in a certain hope that maybe...just maybe...things were going to start looking up As on the health care question, I'm far less concerned about what they're saying than than they're saying something and how they're saying it ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A Fake Fight Over Fake Health Care Reform
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Louis Proyect wrote: > ...does it make sense from the overall needs of the capitalist system for such a large proportion of the GDP to be associated with health care? < No, and the Obamacare law sets up a couple of institutions charged with reducing "costs." Their mandate is to use pseudo-science, statistical chicanery, and stealth regulation and legislation to put through less care and to turn the screws on nurses and doctors, which also grinds down the quality of care. See, for example, "Obamacare's Cost Scalpel," by Alex Nussbaum, Meg Tirrell, Pat Wechsler and Tom Randall, Business Week, April 5, 2010 issue: How does the health-care overhaul propose to control spending? By evaluating treatments through "comparative effectiveness research" http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_14/b4172064340424.htm (May require subscription) Charles Andrews No Rich, No Poor (Needle Press) Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] militias
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I tend to agree with Louis. They have nothing to do with the working-"CLASS" at all, regardless of their relation to it. There are, however, a wide variety of militias. This one seems to be a 'retro-1990s' kind, that, without the label, would fit in with the so-called "Christian Identity" movement, which is the "religion" of the skins head racists. However, as "fringed" as this particular group was (4 of the 9 arrested are related to each other) there are groups with wider appeal and more dangerous, that are also "militias", the best known are the Minute Men. Groups growing out of, or related too, the Tea-bagers are also beginning to show their faces. David Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The awful truth about Social Democracy
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == pessimism of reason optimism of will rational hope as a result, and as a bet Gary MacLennan escribió: > > Hi Dan > > This is gospel to me. I believe every word! > > I am also sure you are right about Obama and the absence of pressure from > below. But there is a sneaking feeling or is it hope at the back of my > consciousness, that the paradigm may be about to change. When pressure > comes from below it will not be channeled thru unions and unto Social > Democrats, but may take a very radical and even revolutionary form. The > gutting of unions that took place in the Volcker period may have the effect > of weakening the mechanisms by which reformism operates. > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [microsound] The awful truth about Social Democracy
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Gary MacLennan wrote: > > Nevertheless the dialectic moves in mysterious ways and hopefully the > ruling > class are about to discover that the hard way. > Thanks to Rosa Lichtenstein's deconstruction of dialectics and its advocates, I've come to abjure dialectics as mystical bullshit. Your statement goes a long way in helping me see the soundness of my decision. http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/index.htm -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/-Marxism--The-awful-truth-about-Social-Democracy-tp28074046p28076845.html Sent from the Marxism mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A Fake Fight Over Fake Health Care Reform
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Mon, 2010-03-29 at 19:57 -0400, Louis Proyect wrote: > It may be desired by "employers" but does it make sense from the > overall needs of the capitalist system for such a large proportion of > the GDP to be associated with health care? If this system was more > Spartan, it would find ways to reduce these costs to a minimum. > Insurance companies are basically parasitic. Of course, that's the > general drift of American capitalism. Aetna instead of infrastructure > renewal. By shifting more of the costs of health care to the workers, two things are accomplished. First, workers pay more, through mandated insurance, bigger deductibles and co-pays. This benefits the profiteers in the health field, and the employers who provide insurance. Secondly,by forcing the workers to pay more, the hope is that they will use the health care system less, driving down prices for hospitalization, drugs, etc. Taxing employer provided health insurance is part of this. Once plans hit the taxable amount, up go the deductibles and co-pays for the workers, to keep the plan below the taxable level. Just a note on whether employer based health insurance is a competitive problem. Employer based insurance has the beneficial effect of tying workers to their jobs, and making them very hesitant about things like strikes. A socialized health care system would take that monkey off the workers back, and heaven forbid US workers take after their French brothers and sisters, and start striking at the drop of a hat. Jon Flanders Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [microsound] unions again
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Daniel Koechlin wrote: > > Post-industrial Western society in no way resembles 1914 Russia. > > Instead of building minuscule parties of the working-class, we should > all help build powerful industrial unions of the working class. > > Elections are a farce, class war is the true state of affairs. And the > corporate elites think they have won the class war. They can have > Chinese and Bangladeshi workers produce clothes, Western consumers buy > them and get "green" labels for their contribution to protecting the > environment. There are no opponents. They can siphon off 90% of the > surplus value and play the financial markets. There are no opponents. > > They will turn as green as spinach (like McDonalds) in order to remain > in business. They will rationalize production, they will shed (like a > snake) a third of the work-force, they will invest billions (Pepsi > invests 1$ billion) in advertising. > > According to OECD statistics, only 17% of workers are unionized. > According to an OECD poll, 64% of workers "would like to join a union > but are afraid of the negative consequences this would entail". > > Who is winning ? The capitalists ! True, but the class struggle is not over by a long shot. Okay, so there's no party out there to fully represent working class interests on the political front, nor a large (or even small) worker's union that will harness their latent power. Still, it doesn't mean (at least to me) that the class struggle is over or that the capitalist class has won it. "Between the working class and the capitalist class, there is an irrepressible conflict, a class struggle for life. No glib-tongued politician can vault over it, no capitalist professor or official statistician can argue it away; no capitalist parson can veil it; no labor faker can straddle it; no “reform” architect can bridge it over. It crops up in all manner of ways, like in this strike, in ways that disconcert all the plans and all the schemes of those who would deny or ignore it. It is a struggle that will not down, and must be ended, only by either the total subjugation of the working class, or the abolition of the capitalist class." http://www.slp.org/pdf/de_leon/ddlother/wm_strike.pdf We are not yet totally subjugated, comrade. BTW, please tell us what YOU think is the purpose and objective of a "powerful industrial union of the working class" and why you think such a thing is still possible in spite of the ever-worsening condition of the proletariat? What should be its founding principles? That workers fear the "negative consequences" of attempting to unionize is understandable, given the din and power of negative and deceitful propaganda against unionism that's out there. But what about the negative consequences of not attempting to unionize? Does anybody ever talk about that? Is anyone pointing out to us that when a workers' union fails to acknowledge or abandons the class struggle in principle and practice it removes the force that animates it? Besides the potential gains and benefits of organizing around proletarian principles, what's the downside to not organizing? Is anyone besides yourself discussing that? "Intervention and Union Work" http://www.slp.org/pdf/mbrmtrls/intervention.pdf -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/-Marxism--unions-again-tp28074530p28076747.html Sent from the Marxism mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A Fake Fight Over Fake Health Care Reform
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Intense Red wrote: > >Thus, when you factor in the trend the cost of health care will be lifted > from employers, and working people are forced into a privatized system. No > wide social safety net, no millions of uninsured people, private insurance > companies happily making money, only a voluntary cost (soon to be shed) on > business -- "everyone" wins but the workers themselves. It may be desired by "employers" but does it make sense from the overall needs of the capitalist system for such a large proportion of the GDP to be associated with health care? If this system was more Spartan, it would find ways to reduce these costs to a minimum. Insurance companies are basically parasitic. Of course, that's the general drift of American capitalism. Aetna instead of infrastructure renewal. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A Fake Fight Over Fake Health Care Reform
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == > The current system is (and was) unsustainable and leaves American > business at a competitive disadvantage with regards to rival capitalist > nations. Why wouldn't they want "real reform"? But doesn't Obama's reforms solve this "problem" for the bourgeoisie? The percentage of employers offering health care has been falling for many years. I expect this trend to pick up its pace. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Obama's plan basically force people under penalty of law to buy health insurance -- if offered by their employer, fine; but if not offered by their employer people still have to buy it. Thus, when you factor in the trend the cost of health care will be lifted from employers, and working people are forced into a privatized system. No wide social safety net, no millions of uninsured people, private insurance companies happily making money, only a voluntary cost (soon to be shed) on business -- "everyone" wins but the workers themselves. -- "Lottery: A tax on poor people who are bad at math." -- The cartoon B.C. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The awful truth about Social Democracy
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Social democrats simply can't operate like they were able to during the 'golden age' of capitalism... even if they *wanted to*, even if *"forced"* by a militant mass movement. Objective conditions have drastically changed since the early 70s. On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Dan wrote: Social Democrats NEVER make good on their electoral promises unless they > are prompted to do so FROM BELLOW. > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] unions again
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Post-industrial Western society in no way resembles 1914 Russia. Instead of building minuscule parties of the working-class, we should all help build powerful industrial unions of the working class. Elections are a farce, class war is the true state of affairs. And the corporate elites think they have won the class war. They can have Chinese and Bangladeshi workers produce clothes, Western consumers buy them and get "green" labels for their contribution to protecting the environment. There are no opponents. They can siphon off 90% of the surplus value and play the financial markets. There are no opponents. They will turn as green as spinach (like McDonalds) in order to remain in business. They will rationalize production, they will shed (like a snake) a third of the work-force, they will invest billions (Pepsi invests 1$ billion) in advertising. According to OECD statistics, only 17% of workers are unionized. According to an OECD poll, 64% of workers "would like to join a union but are afraid of the negative consequences this would entail". Who is winning ? The capitalists ! Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A Fake Fight Over Fake Health Care Reform
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == A young British socialist's take on this very question: http://theactivist.org/blog/copenhagen-protesters-the-media-and-capital . There is one problematic part towards the end, but it's an interesting assessment. On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: The inability of the ruling class in the USA to act on its *long > term* interests is interesting. Clearly, the damage to the > environment threatens the ability of the capitalist system to > reproduce itself but nothing seems to get done to fix the > problems. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A Fake Fight Over Fake Health Care Reform
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Bhaskar Sunkara wrote: > > The current system is (and was) unsustainable and leaves American business > at a competitive disadvantage with regards to rival capitalist nations. Why > wouldn't they want "real reform"? Why would the insurance industries > interests come before that of the wider bourgeoisie? Is the capitalist > class just afraid of the precedent that a real expansion of the social > safety net like single-payer would mean? > The inability of the ruling class in the USA to act on its *long term* interests is interesting. Clearly, the damage to the environment threatens the ability of the capitalist system to reproduce itself but nothing seems to get done to fix the problems. My guess is that this is a function of a declining culture all-around. From John Ford to John Hughes. From FDR to Obama. Slouching toward Bethlehem. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Venezuela: Counter-revolution throws down a new challenge
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.marxist.com/venezuela-counter-revolution-throws-down-new-challenge.htm Venezuela: Counter-revolution throws down a new challenge Written by Patrick Larsen Monday, 29 March 2010 In the build up to the September elections, the right-wing opposition is preparing on several fronts. Economic sabotage is one of them, as are the manoeuvres on the part of right-wing elements within the Bolivarian movement itself. Meanwhile, all this is having a radicalising effect on the left. New developments in Venezuela reveal that the counter-revolution is organizing to prepare a new prolonged battle against the Bolivarian government. On top of the deep economic recession, we recently saw new shifts in the alignments in the political landscape which can play a decisive role in the warm up to the parliamentary elections in September. (clip) Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] CIA Paper Reveals Plans to Manipulate European Opinion on Afghanistan
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == > > By Daniel Tencer > > Among its proposals, the policy paper suggests playing up the plight of > Afghan women to French audiences, as the French public has shown concern for > women's rights in Afghanistan. > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25088.htm > > > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Petraeus Backs Down - "I never said Israel policy endangers U.S."
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == > > By Natasha Mozgavaya, Haaretz Correspondent > > Commander of the U.S. Military's Central Command Gen. David Petraeus phoned > his Israeli counterpart, Gabi Ashkenazi, this week to deny reports that he > had blamed Israeli policy for the failure in a regional solution and for > endangering U.S. interests. > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25085.htm > > > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] History of White People
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I haven´t read the book reviewed in the article Louis posted, but a classic, but not well-known Marxist writer developed this topic back in the 1970´s. Anthony Allen, Theodore William, Class Struggle and the Origin of Racial Slavery: The Invention of the White Race. Hoboken, N.J.: HEP PO Box M-71, 1975, repr. as Theodore W. Allen, Allen, Theodore W., "Commentary on István Mészáros's Beyond Capital,” Cultural Logic, 2005. Allen, Theodore W. and Ignatin (Ignatiev), Noel. White Blindspot. Osawatomie Associates, 1967, repr. as Theodore W. Allen and Noel Ignatin (Ignatiev), Noel, "White Blindspot" and "Can White Workers Radicals Be Radicalized?"” (1969) This entry includes Theodore W. Allen's "A Letter of Support," but does not include Theodore W. Allen's seminal article “Can White Workers Radicals Be Radicalized?’” Allen, Ted (Theodore William), “White Supremacy in U.S. History.” A Speech Delivered at the Guardian Forum on the National Question, April 28, 1973. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Insurance companies seek to deny coverage of children with pre-existing conditions
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == NY Times March 28, 2010 Coverage Now for Sick Children? Check Fine Print By ROBERT PEAR WASHINGTON — Just days after President Obama signed the new health care law, insurance companies are already arguing that, at least for now, they do not have to provide one of the benefits that the president calls a centerpiece of the law: coverage for certain children with pre-existing conditions. Mr. Obama, speaking at a health care rally in northern Virginia on March 19, said, “Starting this year, insurance companies will be banned forever from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions.” The authors of the law say they meant to ban all forms of discrimination against children with pre-existing conditions like asthma, diabetes, birth defects, orthopedic problems, leukemia, cystic fibrosis and sickle cell disease. The goal, they say, was to provide those youngsters with access to insurance and to a full range of benefits once they are in a health plan. To insurance companies, the language of the law is not so clear. Insurers agree that if they provide insurance for a child, they must cover pre-existing conditions. But, they say, the law does not require them to write insurance for the child and it does not guarantee the “availability of coverage” for all until 2014. William G. Schiffbauer, a lawyer whose clients include employers and insurance companies, said: “The fine print differs from the larger political message. If a company sells insurance, it will have to cover pre-existing conditions for children covered by the policy. But it does not have to sell to somebody with a pre-existing condition. And the insurer could increase premiums to cover the additional cost.” Congressional Democrats were furious when they learned that some insurers disagreed with their interpretation of the law. “The concept that insurance companies would even seek to deny children coverage exemplifies why we fought for this reform,” said Representative Henry A. Waxman, Democrat of California and chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee. Senator John D. Rockefeller IV, Democrat of West Virginia and chairman of the Senate commerce committee, said: “The ink has not yet dried on the health care reform bill, and already some deplorable health insurance companies are trying to duck away from covering children with pre-existing conditions. This is outrageous.” The issue is one of many that federal officials are tackling as they prepare to carry out the law, with a huge stream of new rules, official guidance and brochures to educate the public. Their decisions will have major practical implications. Insurers say they often limit coverage of pre-existing conditions under policies sold in the individual insurance market. Thus, for example, an insurer might cover a family of four, including a child with a heart defect, but exclude treatment of that condition from the policy. The new law says that health plans and insurers offering individual or group coverage “may not impose any pre-existing condition exclusion with respect to such plan or coverage” for children under 19, starting in “plan years” that begin on or after Sept. 23, 2010. But, insurers say, until 2014, the law does not require them to write insurance at all for the child or the family. In the language of insurance, the law does not include a “guaranteed issue” requirement before then. Consumer advocates worry that instead of refusing to cover treatment for a specific pre-existing condition, an insurer might simply deny coverage for the child or the family. “If you have a sick kid, the individual insurance market will continue to be a scary place,” said Karen L. Pollitz, a research professor at the Health Policy Institute at Georgetown University. Experts at the National Association of Insurance Commissioners share that concern. “I would like to see the kids covered,” said Sandy Praeger, the insurance commissioner of Kansas. “But without guaranteed issue of insurance, I am not sure companies will be required to take children under 19.” A White House spokesman said the administration planned to issue regulations setting forth its view that “the term ‘pre-existing’ applies to both a child’s access to a plan and his or her benefits once he or she is in a plan.” But lawyers said the rules could be challenged in court if they went beyond the law or were inconsistent with it. Starting in January 2014, health plans will be required to accept everyone who applies for coverage. Until then, people with pre-existing conditions could seek coverage in high-risk insurance pools run by states or by the secretary of health and human services. The new law provides $5 billion to help pay claims file
Re: [Marxism] Obama appoints Becker to NLRB
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yeah, but hey, what do you want the guys from the National Right to Work Committee that Reagan appointed? Surely this guy as a union lawyer is different from the corporate hacks W sent there as well. On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 11:03 AM, brad bauerly wrote: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/us/politics/28recess.html?ref=todayspaper > > Actual change? > > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Interview with Rudi Dutschke's Widow
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Berlin to name street after him: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3283764,00.html Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Interview with Rudi Dutschke's Widow
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == 2009 Deutsche Welle interview http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5031510,00.html Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] FWD: Free Lynn Stewart
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It's also a case that represents a frontal assault on the attorney-client privilege and the duty of fidelity and zealous representation. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
