Re: [Marxism] re : Islamophobia and France's NP

[Joseph Catron]

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On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Dan  wrote:

while you
> yourself if you were a woman, and had the choice, would never submit to
> such an indignity unless you were forced to by tradition, submissive
> thought-patterns and a watchful imams.
>

says a racist douchebag who, I'm willing to bet, wears a shirt every day of
his life, and with no more logical (or, if you prefer, natural/non-cultural)
justification than a headscarf.

And yes, if Dan believes that each of my friends who chooses to wear a hijab
"would never submit to such an indignity" absent the stupid, reductionist
conditions he postulates, that's exactly what he is.

Fuck off, racist scum.

-- 
"Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
lytlað."

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Re: [Marxism] Islamophobia and France's NP

[Dan Russell]

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"This is truly racism of the worst kind, that defines grandiose
universal human rights for Western women but carefully refrains from
extending such rights to Muslim women."

This kind of hamfisted, imperialist, racist drivel is exactly why Lenin
identified yours as an infantile disorder.

No one is saying that any man or woman should have to wear anything,
regardless of their religion. We are simply demanding that anyone should be
free to wear what they want without being assaulted for 'not understanding
their own oppression.' I hope your union plans to go on a campaign against
miniskirts, low cut tops, and anything else that you might decide indicates
someone's insufficient understanding of their own oppression. Maybe you
should just impose a strict dress code? 'Libertarianism' at its finest.

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Re: [Marxism] Islamophobia and France's NP

[Dan]

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Excerpt from a CNT view on the Islamic headscarf by Mustafa (CNT RP):

"The Islamic headscarf is a symbol of sexist discrimination, and of
so-called "identity marking". Trying to oppose women's rights and the
free exercise of religious rights for minorities is the latest fad. 
As Libertarian Communists, we defend the rights of individuals against
the dead-weight of their particular family background. 
All monotheistic religions despise women and believe that they are a
source of temptation for men. This implies that sexual desire is a
masculine prerogative and that this desire being wrong, the  object of
this desire must be repressed. Hence, women are born guilty and must
therefore hide their hair in order to be ""modest and well-behaved".
Islamic law therefore imposes a form of Apartheid : women must be hidden
from view and are expected to stay within the confines of their home. If
they leave the sanctuary of their home, they must wear a headscarf.
Women are considered inferior to men, and this state of inequality
implies that they can only be objects of desire and not desiring
subjects.
Men are never required to be veiled in Islamic societies, because they
are intrinsically superior to women and refuse to be objects of desire,
preferring the more comfortable position of subjects.
This is the way in which religion exerts a powerful social control over
individual minds.
Some misguided people might think that being opposed to the Islamic
headscarf is a form of racism. This is nonsense. To be racist means to
discriminate against someone on the basis not of what he/she does but on
the basis of what he/she is supposed to be. Religion is a free choice -
although of course in reality innocent children are forced into their
parents particular creed. It is as absurd to claim that all people from
a Muslim background are Muslims as to claim that all Westerners are
Christians.
The truth is, those who hesitate to condemn the Islamic headscarf out of
fear of appearing Racist, are actually behaving in a Racist manner.
Those people believe implicitly that all women from a Muslim background
are automatically Muslims. They implicitly believe that a person is to
be defined according to his/her ethnic and religious background.
This then leads those people to tolerate for Muslim women what is
intolerable for Western Women, thus strengthening the idea that freedom
and equality are merely "Western" concepts and not universal values.
This is truly racism of the worst kind, that defines grandiose universal
human rights for Western women but carefully refrains from extending
such rights to Muslim women."




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Re: [Marxism] Islamophobia and France's NPA

[Dan Russell]

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This Islamophobic nonsense is the vilest, most vulgar and elitist perversion
of Marxism. Absolutely pathetic and revolting, though not surprising.. You
dare to call Leninists 'authoritarian?' Get real.

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[Marxism] Request for books, articles on the "Middle Class"

[MICHAEL YATES]

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A journalist friend of mine is planning a series on the middle class.  He needs 
references on how we came
to speak of a middle class, what the middle class is, why people identify as 
middle class, etc.  You can reply either
to the list or to me at mikedjya...@msn.com
 
Michael Yates



  

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Re: [Marxism] re : Islamophobia and France's NP

[S. Artesian]

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Right paternalistic slaveholder because I oppose the French government's 
attempt to stigmatize women who wear the head scarf.

Like I said, you make shit up.


- Original Message - 
From: "Dan"  



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[Marxism] Grace Carlson question

[Matt Siegfried]

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Comrades,

I'm interested in learning more about Grace Carlson, SWP activist who ran on 
several high profile electoral campaigns including VP to Dodds president in 
1948.  I know she left the SWP around issues with her Catholicism and Cannon 
wrote an article called How We Won grace Carlson, How We Lost Her.  It's not on 
the Cannon archive and a thorough googling doesn't turn it up.  Any help in 
learning about Carlson and the issues Cannon raised would be most appreciated.

 Matt

  

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[Marxism] re : Islamophobia and France's NP

[Dan]

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Actually, YOU sound like a paternalistic slave holder, seeing Muslim
head-scarves as a sign of belonging to a "distinct culture", while you
yourself if you were a woman, and had the choice, would never submit to
such an indignity unless you were forced to by tradition, submissive
thought-patterns and a watchful imams.

Now, I will give your email to the many, many workers from Muslim
backgrounds, 1st and 2nd generation, from my union (CNT). I will ask
them to write a response to "The point is that the head scarf is being
used as a symbol to scapegoat a religion, a people-- to define that
religion, that people as "external" "stranger" and... as unFrench, and
somehow a source of real disturbance in the "harmony" of society."

Fouad is the General secretary of the Construction workers of Moselle (57-58), 
the SIPM (journalists) RP also is made up
of many (2nd generation) migrants (many Iranians), Ali Hussein is a colleague 
of mine (with an honours degree and a PhD) 
from the teachers' union. They will probably have something more interesting to 
say than what I wrote
about the head-scarf being used as a symbol to scapegoat a religion.

Hope you get a response from them, if not, contact the Secretariat of the 
United Cleaning workers (RP), 1300 strong CNT
union that is exclusively composed of migrant workers who clean hotels. 95% 
women. 70% Muslim. 

My own theoretical exertions to denounce the nefarious role of religion in 
breaking down class
solidarity are over as of this post.





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[Marxism] Carroll

[Jon Louis Mann]

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> Is Michael handing out honorary womanhoods now? 
> ML

Whoops!~{ I should have realized that Carroll with two Ls is a surname and 
masculine if a prenom.
JM



  


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[Marxism] Meeting against F.B.I. tactics

[Arthur Maglin]

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Here's information on an important meeting in Cambridge, Massachusetts:


PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY TO YOUR LISTS AND MEMBERS

BOSTON UNITED NATIONAL ANTIWAR COMMITTEE (UNAC),
JOINED BY BOSTON COALITION FOR PALESTINIAN RIGHTS, BOSTON MAY DAY COALITION, 
BOSTON NEW SOCIALIST PROJECT, BOSTON UNIVERSITY ANTIWAR COMMITTEE, CODE PINK 
BOSTON, INTERNATIONAL ACTION CENTER, INTERNATIONAL SOCIALIST ORGANIZATION, 
MASS. GLOBAL ACTION, MILITARY FAMILIES SPEAK OUT, NATIONAL LAWYERS GUILD–MASS. 
CHAPTER, NEWTON DIALOGUES FOR PEACE, PROJECT SALAM, SOCIALIST PARTY, STOP THE 
WARS COALITION, VETERANS FOR PEACE – SMEDLEY BUTLER BRIGADE, UNITED FOR JUSTICE 
WITH PEACE, WOMEN'S INTERNATIONAL LEAGUE FOR PEACE AND FREEDOM
INVITES YOU TO A FORUM ON FBI REPRESSION AND HOW TO RESIST IT!

THE GROWING MENACE OF
FBI REPRESSION

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 17, 2010, 7:30 P.M.

MEREDITH ABY, Minneapolis antiwar/Palestine solidarity activist
subpoenaed for grand jury re: false aiding terrorism charges
CHUCK TURNER, Roxbury community activist & City Councilor targeted by FBI
NANCY MURRAY, Director, Bill of Rights Education Project, American Civil
Liberties Union of Mass.
LAILA MURAD, Tarek Mehanna Support Committee. Mehanna targeted by FBI
when he refused to spy on Muslim community and now in solitary confinement
PROJECT SALAM, Provides support and legal advocacy for Muslims wrongly
  convicted of aiding terrorism. KATHY MANLEY, Criminal defense attorney
  LYNNE JACKSON, Project SALAM organizer

FIRST PARISH CHURCH, CAMBRIDGE
3 Church St, Harvard Square, Cambridge, MA
---
Suggested donation of $5 to cover event costs.
e-mail bostonu...@gmail.com for more info.
Download flyer here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1042836/flyer-2010-12-17.pdf

BACKGROUND INFORMATION ON PRESENTERS AND ORGANIZATIONS

Committee to Stop FBI Repression  On September 24, the FBI raided seven Chicago 
and Minneapolis homes of well-known anti-war and international solidarity 
activists. Their ranks included a number of trade unionists. Also raided was 
the office of the Minneapolis – St. Paul based Anti-War Committee.

The FBI took computer hard drives, cell phones, documents, newspapers and 
children’s artwork. They took 28 boxes out of one Chicago home, including a 
framed photo of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., shaking hands with 
Malcolm X. The FBI subpoenaed 14 activists in Illinois, Minnesota and Michigan 
to testify at a grand jury. According to the FBI, the goal of the raids was to 
show material support for terrorism charges. Since then, five more activists 
were subpoenaed for grand jury hearings for a total of 19. If they do not 
cooperate with these proceedings, they could face substantial jail time. It is 
outrageous! The U.S. government is trying to put people in jail for anti-war 
and international solidarity activism. These people have done nothing wrong. 
They have given money to no one. Their freedom is at stake. 

Those targeted are well-known leaders in the antiwar movement and many helped 
to organize the huge protest against the Republican National Convention in St. 
Paul, MN in September 2008. This is the suppression of our democratic rights. 
It threatens our families, our children and our communities. This is a U.S. 
government attempt to silence those who support resistance to oppression in the 
Middle East and Latin America, by putting people in jail.  Committee to Stop 
FBI Repression www.stopfbi.net

Meredith Aby has been an anti-war and international solidarity activist since 
1994. She started out doing student activism at Macalester College and with 
CISPES (the Committee in Solidarity with the People of El Salvador). In 1998 
she helped found the Twin Cities Anti-War Committee which has helped lead the 
peace movement locally in challenging U.S. war and militarism in Iraq, 
Yugoslavia, Colombia, Palestine and Afghanistan. She has been on human rights 
delegations to Palestine and Colombia and leads work nationally through the 
Colombia Action Network. In 2008 she helped lead protests at the RNC on days 
one and four of the convention. Meredith does her activism as volunteer work 
and is a teacher in a Twin Cities high school. She is also the proud mother of 
the world's cutest toddler.

Chuck Turner has been a community organizer and civil rights activist in Boston 
since 1966. Referred to as one of the best-known agitators in the city, he was 
elected to the Boston City Council in 1999 where he served until an FBI 
campaign resulted in his removal from council this year.

He graduated from Harvard in 1963. He joi

Re: [Marxism] Islamophobia and France's NPA

[S. Artesian]

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Maybe your friends could but you sure can't.  How many illegal immigrants 
have I sheltered?  Two answers:  none of your business, and see the previous 
answer.

Has nothing to do with the issue.  You're citing of Sarkozy has nothing to 
do with issue, unless you think anyone on this list supports Sarkozy and the 
using of public money to build mosques or churches.

Nobody said anything about Islam being close or remote to anybody's needs. 
Nobody said any thing about this sanctimonious bullshit about Imams and drug 
dealers coming from the biggest racketeers of all who have the racket of 
religion and the racket of drugs reporting to them.

The point is that the head scarf is being used as a symbol to scapegoat a 
religion, a people-- to define that religion, that people as "external" 
"stranger" and... as unFrench, and somehow a source of real disturbance in 
the "harmony" of society.

I no more said anything about building Mosques than I did about redressing 
the historical grievance of Muslims in France.  I may be authoritarian, but 
you're being dishonest and just making things up.

Really, Muslims are seen that way in France?  No shit, Sherlock? Is that how 
you see them? You know what that sounds like to me?  It sounds so much like 
something coming from the mouths of racists, patricians, Jeffersonian 
slaveholder agrarian democrats, all demanding a property qualification for 
voting, because after all that rabble, those poor propertyless people in the 
cities, so uneducated can so easily be bought because they have no property 
of their own.

Let me know when you undertake your great battles against those things that 
really hold migrant workers in servitude-- that would be capitalism.

Have you friends contact me.  They might have something of interest to say. 
You sure don't.
- Original Message - 
From: "Dan" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Islamophobia and France's NPA 



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[Marxism] US Cables Portray a Different Side of Brazil's Lula da Silva:

[Dennis Brasky]

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*
*

*US Cables Portray a Different Side of **Brazil**'s Lula da Silva: *


The leaked U.S. cables, which chronicle Lula's eight years in power, show a
leader all too willing to placate Washington and double-cross fellow
leftists throughout the region.




http://latindispatch.com/2010/12/15/wikileaks-cables-portray-a-different-side-of-brazils-lula/

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Re: [Marxism] Islamophobia and France's NPA

[Dan]

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Muslims in Europe are not persecuted because of their beliefs, but
because they are poor and are the most easily exploitable workforce.

Enough with respect for Islam. Long live proletarian solidarity !

I do not need lessons from you Artesian, seeing I have illegaly
sheltered over 40 immigrant workers who were faced with deportation over
the last 3 years. What about you ?

I have participated in the building of networks to unionize migrant
workers, and can assure you that Islam is for remote from their
day-to-day needs. This fake "respect" for religion is nauseating, as it
is the very tool used by the French government to buy votes. Sarkozy
promises to combat "islamophobia" in order to garner votes from the
Muslim community and has built more mosques, with tax payers' money,
than any other government. This so-called "respect" is a cynical ploy
("I prefer a good Imam to a drug dealer, for our society, and especially
inner cities, need moral guidance" quote Sarkozy). I suppose you think
building Mosques is a way to "redress the historical grievances of
Muslims in France".

If you want to draw tenous comparisons between "islamophobia" and the
KKK, I think you should reflect on this : Muslims in France are seen as
a powerful constituency that are easily bought because they depend for
"guidance" on Imams.

And I think Islam must be battled by unionists and progressive forces
who are truly interested in freeing migrant workers from forces that
seek to maintain them in servitude. My friends Ahmed and Fouad, two
committed Marxists from the Construction union, could explain to you the
meaning of emancipation and workers' power. My Iranian friend Ina could
do the same any day, with a feminist bent.

My head is screwed on 360° by the way.



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Re: [Marxism] re : Islamophobia and France's NPA

[S. Artesian]

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I don't think people are dumb and immature.  I think you're acting in a dumb 
and immature fashion... which by the way you have just exhibited again by 
ignoring the real social content of the issue.. making it an issue of 
authority, God, Hegel (?) blahblahblahblahblah.

Libertarian Marxists hold what?  That to become emancipated all 
authoritarian dimensions of a belief in a divine presence must be 
extirpated?

Hey, maybe you're right, Dan.  Maybe I as an authoritarian Marxist think 
some people, libertarian Marxists, really are dumb and immature.  As any 
real Marxist knows, emancipation is a social project, involving the creation 
of the material conditions supporting the social relation of a free 
association of laborers .  This has nothing to with an individual 
requirements for personal "emancipation."


- Original Message - 
From: "Dan" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:31 PM
Subject: [Marxism] re : Islamophobia and France's NPA
.net 



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Re: [Marxism] Islamophobia and France's NPA

[S. Artesian]

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Not hard at all.  Ask Dan.

But I would point out that these people are not being persecuted for their 
religious idiocy, as their "religious idiocy" is no greater than any other 
religious idiot's.

They are being persecuted as part of the ongoing social oppression that has 
been inflicted on these people, practicing this religion, from those areas 
every since colonial times, and because of their status of migrants from 
those colonies.

That's why I wish this childish posturing about Marxist being 
"anti-religious" would just stop.  This issue has nothing to do with 
religion, really.  It has everything to do with the history of colonialism 
and the marginalization, discrimination practiced in order to secure 
accumulation.


- Original Message - 
From: "Shane Mage" 
To= 



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[Marxism] re : Islamophobia and France's NPA

[Dan]

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This is the true difference between Authoritarian Marxism and
Libertarian Marxism.

Authoritarian Marxists think that people are dumb and immature, and
that, since the aim is to seize power, then certain accommodations must
be sought with Patriarchs and Imams, since backward peasants are too far
remote from Marxism to be motivated by anything more than the fear of
God. Regrettable, but true. Authoritarian Marxists (Leninists) must make
do with the current outlook of the misguided masses and accept religion
as inevitable (in order to engage with said unenlightened masses and
incorporate them into a New State). Traces of Hegel ? who sought to
reconcile the will of God with the will of the State by proclaiming that
the essence of religion was the same as the essence of earthly authority
- i.e. the State.

Libertarian Marxists on the other hand hold that for a person to become
truly emancipated and participate in self-management, all authoritarian
notions of a Divine presence and/or respect for earthly authority (which
is supposed to derive from God) is to be challenged. 





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Re: [Marxism] Islamophobia and France's NPA

[Shane Mage]

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On Dec 16, 2010, at 10:04 PM, S. Artesian wrote:
>
> Christ on a crutch I'm sick this infantile posturing.  Hey Dan, what  
> d'ya
> think?  When the KKK nightriders go out and burn down black  
> churches, we
> should stand aside and let them, applaud them?  because after all  
> we're
> anti-religion?  etc..

Is it really so hard to defend the rights of religious idiots not to  
be persecuted for their idiocy  while recognizing that they are indeed  
religious idiots?

Shane Mage
"When we read on a printed page the doctrine of Pythagoras that all  
things are made of numbers, it seems mystical, mystifying, even  
downright silly.

When we read on a computer screen the doctrine of Pythagoras that all  
things are made of numbers, it seems self-evidently true." (N. Weiner)



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Re: [Marxism] Islamophobia and France's NPA

[S. Artesian]

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Christ on a crutch I'm sick this infantile posturing.  Hey Dan, what d'ya 
think?  When the KKK nightriders go out and burn down black churches, we 
should stand aside and let them, applaud them?  because after all we're 
anti-religion?

Hey, Dan, when they blow up a church and kill 4 black school girls what 
then?  Hands off because we're anti-religious and don't want people to go to 
church anyway?

Hey Dan, when mosques get trashed by neo-Nazis, what do you think?  Should 
we approach the neo-Nazis on the possibility of some sort of united front 
against mosques, because we're anti-religious and welcome all attacks on all 
religious institutions?

I mean how backwards can you have your head screwed on?  More than 180 
degrees?


- Original Message - 
From: "Dan" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Islamophobia and France's NPA




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Re: [Marxism] Islamophobia and France's NPA

[Dan]

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Ashadu Allah, ashadu Allah illah

I proclaim God, I proclaim that God is God,
and that Muhammad is his prophet.

Come to pray oh ye Brethern !
come and rejoice in prayer

for I proclaim God, I proclaim that God is God,
and that Muhammad is his prophet.

The Muezzin's chant is truly beautiful.

As a religionophobe, guilty of religionophobia, let me know when you
need me to defend Christianity, Judaism or Hinduism.
I think, thanks to my multicultural background, I know the main prayers
of all those religions.

Pater umon en to ourano,

Our Father that art in Heaven,
Hallowed be thy name,
Thine kingdom come, 
thine will be done in heaven and on earth

Aum namo shiwa,
aum !
Aum mani padma..

Wait ! I am making fun of RELIGION ! I am a religionophobe ! Instead of
letting each government impose a faith on working people, instead of
welcoming religion, I OPENLY OPPOSE RELIGION ! religion was ever the
bulwark of those in power (Pharaoh, Chinese emperor, Sumerian theocracy,
Inca, Pope, German Protestantism, etc.) so I guess we should, as
MArxists, encourage religion and at the same time belittle the abilities
of Man to pursue his own destiny. I get it. This is new,
non-religionophobic Marxism.  

Wait, let me change my tune, to be in accordance with this new brand of
"Marxism" and thus avoid being summarily unsubbed for religionophobia :
We, as Marxists, must respect religion and defend those persecuted for
their belief in the divine. We, as Marxists, must show respect for the
belief in God Almighty, creator of the heavens and the earth, who will
judge us in the world to come.
Am I OK ? Or will you unsub me anyway for showing disrespect through
satirical references to religion ?





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[Marxism] Wikileaks broke no Aus law, Aus federal police say

[Stuart Munckton]

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No crime in Australia: AFP
 Dylan Welch December 17, 2010 - 1:37PM

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/no-crime-in-australia-afp-20101217-190eb.html

Neither Julian Assange nor WikiLeaks has committed any crime in Australia,
the federal police announced this afternoon.

This is despite the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, labelling the actions of
the group "illegal" two weeks ago.

Ms Gillard is holding a press conference in Sydney today to respond to the
finding.

A statement released by the federal police just before 1pm said: "The AFP
has completed its evaluation of the material available and has not
established the existence of any criminal offences where Australia would
have jurisdiction.

"Where additional cables are published and criminal offences are suspected,
these matters should be referred to the AFP for evaluation," the statement
declared.

Mr Assange was earlier today released on bail in London, after being placed
on remand following a European arrest warrant issued by Sweden.

He is wanted there in connection with allegations of sexual assault. He
denies the allegations.

-- 
“Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s
original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made,
through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man
Under Socialism

“The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of
dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker

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Re: [Marxism] H.K. Edgerton is one happy House Negro

[Mark Lause]

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The entire Jackson chapter of the NAACP passed a resolution supporting the
efforts of the Sons of Confederate Veterans (or whatever they call
themselves nowadays) to recover the "suppressed history" of the black
Confederates.

Frankly, it's one of the top five reasons I can think of for emmigrating

ML

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Re: [Marxism] H.K. Edgerton is one happy House Negro

[Louis Proyect]

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On 12/16/10 8:06 PM, Greg McDonald wrote:

> http://jeffwinbush.com/2010/06/01/h-k-edgerton-is-one-happy-house-negro/
>


I don't know what is more off-putting, the Black man taking part in 
racist ceremonies described in the article above or the blogger's 
idiotic defense of Barack Obama and trashing of Ralph Nader.


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[Marxism] H.K. Edgerton is one happy House Negro

[Greg McDonald]

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http://jeffwinbush.com/2010/06/01/h-k-edgerton-is-one-happy-house-negro/


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[Marxism] "Getting to Assange through Manning, " by Glenn Greenwald

[David Thorstad]

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Fred Feldman wrote:

An ordinary citizen like myself may sometimes get harassed
to do jury duty, but never grand jury duty. That is for those the
prosecutors trust. There have been revolts of the juries from time to time,
but never (as far as I know) revolts of the grand juries. They indict those
whom they are asked to indict.
===
This may be true in some abstract sense, but wouldn't be true in my own 
experience. First, I was called for a grand jury in New York City and, 
as a self-employed worker, I couldn't take off for the perhaps lengthy 
period of a grand jury (weeks or months).
 Second, a year ago I received a notice of grand jury service in my 
rural county (entirely consisting of an Indian reservation, one of two 
such in the country). There is a lot of crime in this county, and I 
looked forward to serving. I was not called once before the term of the 
grand jury expired.
David



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Re: [Marxism] "Getting to Assange through Manning, " by Glenn Greenwald

[Gary MacLennan]

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>
> They have everything to do with Wikileaks and the damage it has done to the
> sacred diplomatic secrecy of the imperialist states, the US above all. In
> these circumstances workers and other democratic-minded people have to
> stand
> unconditionally against all the government operations against Assange --
> with no ifs, ands, or buts.
> Fred Feldman
>


> Well said, Fred
>
 comradely

Gary

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Re: [Marxism] blog post: The Obtuseness of the "Left Establishment"

[Mark Lause]

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I think we're actually agreed on this.  I don't think the people who put
this together suggested it as a "strategy" of any sort.  It seems to me to
have been proposed as much the same sort of thing as trying to get people to
endorse a mass action on any level.

There's never any harm in trying to open channels that have been hitherto
closed.

There might be a slight difference in terms of the logic of how we see a
mass radicalization resuming in the U.S. at this point.  My sense is that
the previously radicalized folks (those of us here discussing the subject)
will have our greatest influence on the quality of the radicalization when
it emerges, but won't be manufacturing many radicals through our speeches,
writings, campaigns, etcor initially providing much of a pole of
attraction for the radicalizing.  I think that we're just not that numerous
or visible to the wider world.

Rather, people initially go into motion behind all sorts of "progressive"
leaders and organizations.  My thinking is that the more independent they
are or seem to be--the further left the seeds take root--the better things
will turn out.

ML

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Re: [Marxism] Visa, Mastercard and PayPal's funding Illegal Israeli Settlements? Priceless.

[S. Artesian]

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Thanks.  I feel so much better now.


- Original Message - 
From: "Dennis Brasky" 
To: 

> Precisely - at least you're not going senile!



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Re: [Marxism] The cringe factor: a distaff take on 3 mumblecore movies

[Ernest Leif]

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There is a thread of solipsism that runs through many of these movies. At
times it takes on a celebratory tone, as is the case with Coppola's new
movie "Somewhere". It seems that the mumblecore films are striving to be
some kind of comedy of manners, but without the satiric wit of a Jean
Renoir, they fall flat into "naval gazing".

Watch "Medicine For Melancholy" to see what's probably the best of the bunch

elb

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Louis Proyect  wrote:

> ==
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> ==
>
>
> Over the past three evenings, I watched “Tiny Furniture”, “Cyrus”
> and “Greenberg”. The first two are dyed-in-the-wool mumblecore
> movies, while the third is a mixture of conventional Hollywood
> story-telling with mumblecore elements, a sign of the movement’s
> growing influence. All three are pretty awful but raise important
> questions about art and society in a period of declining
> expectations. The genre reflects this, whatever the intentions of
> its admittedly shallow practitioners.
>
> full:
>
> http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2010/12/16/the-cringe-factor-a-distaff-take-on-3-mumblecore-movies/
>
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
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>



-- 
Ernest Leif Boyd
Assistant Editor
"My Idiot Brother"

(0) 212.812.2333
(c) 646.234.7123

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Re: [Marxism] blog post: The Obtuseness of the "Left Establishment"

[Mark Lause]

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I don't see that this follows.

I saw Michael Moore's name get a thousand people to a rally on about an
hour's notice.

On the other hand, Mark Lause has much better politics, but his name is only
big enough to get maybe five people...if you count dogs and cats...and if
free cookies are offered...

Rattling the left-liberal tree to see if we can shake loose some of these
people is never amiss...just so long as we don't let anything important ride
on it

ML

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Re: [Marxism] blog post: The Obtuseness of the "Left Establishment"

[Manuel Barrera]

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Michael Yates said: "Although the letter doesn’t specifically say so, it 
implies that the signers don’t understand why otherwise intelligent people 
cannot say once and for all, now that their hopes have been so decisively 
dashed, that Obama is an enemy of working class men and women. 


I guess that's a no on not ceding the leadership ground to the "Establishment 
Left"

Obtuseness abounds.
Manuel

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[Marxism] "Getting to Assange through Manning, " by Glenn Greenwald

[Fred Feldman]

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So now we learn why Washington is giving Bradley Manning a variant of the
Guantanamo treatment (presumably formally non-violent in this case) of the
Guantanamo treatment. The Obama administration and its co-conspirators in
Congress, Sweden, Britain, and elsewhere actually seem to face heavier
sledding every day on this operation, although whether the growing
opposition worldwide is becoming strong enough to stay their hand is a big
question mark. 

We should keep in mind that Washington appears to have convened a secret
grand jury in Alexandria, Virginia to file charges against Assange and
perhaps others. Grand juries are instruments of the prosecutors and serve
theit purposes. An ordinary citizen like myself may sometimes get harassed
to do jury duty, but never grand jury duty. That is for those the
prosecutors trust. There have been revolts of the juries from time to time,
but never (as far as I know) revolts of the grand juries. They indict those
whom they are asked to indict.

If the government does not retreat, therefore, Assange will be indicted as a
matter of course.

Nonetheless, the fact that the US is banking on Manning to make a
prosecution of Assange credible. is already putting more of a spotlight on
the treatment he is receiving in prison although he has not been convicted
of any crime. 

Of course, such treatment in prison is supposed to serve as proof to the
public and the potential jury pool that the accused is obviously a dangerous
criminal.  The imprisonment of Assange in Britain in solitary confinement
had in part the same purpose.  To establish for the "public" that this is a
dangerous criminal (or "terrorist" if you prefer) without having to present
any evidence or file any charges.

By the way, when I submitted, a few posts back. the NY Times article on the
significant victory represented by the judge rejecting the challenge to
bail, I neglected to point out a significant admission by the British
prosecutioe: 

The Times reporters stated:
In dismissing the appeal by prosecutors, Judge Ounsley said he accepted
arguments by the prosecution that many of those who were posting bail for
Mr. Assange were doing so because they supported WikiLeaks and might regard
"absconding as a right and justified act" to keep the beleaguered Web site
running. 

Note that the reasons for keeping in prison and solitary confinement have
nothing to do with the sex abuse accusations. The reason he must be under
maximum security prison conditions, despite the fact that he is charged with
no offense, is that he is the leader of Wikileaks and that Wikileaks
supporters have helped provide bail money. By definitionm, supporters of
Wikileaks, a presumptively criminal organization according to the British
prosecutor, are capable of any crime in support of the cause.

The Times suggests that the judge endorsed this argument (without quoting
him) but it is clear that he rejected the claim that Assange's leadership of
Wikileaks justifies his imprisonment.

This highlights tbe point I have been trying to make for quite a while.  The
issue is not whether the accusations of sexual misconduct against Assange
have any basis or not (and it must be stressed that there are no charges
against him, and that the evidence made publlc so far, from a legal point of
view, does not clearly establish a crime). Regardless of the intentions of
the women who felt (not necessarily without reason) wronged by him, the
actions of the Swedish  and British governments in this case have exactly
zero to do with breaking new ground in the fight against sexual abuse of
women.

They have everything to do with Wikileaks and the damage it has done to the
sacred diplomatic secrecy of the imperialist states, the US above all. In
these circumstances workers and other democratic-minded people have to stand
unconditionally against all the government operations against Assange --
with no ifs, ands, or buts.
Fred Feldman




http://www.salon.com/news/wikileaks/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2010
/12/16/wikileaks

Getting to Assange through Manning
By Glenn Greenwald   
AP
Bradley Manning and Julian Assange (l to r). (updated below) 

In The New York Times this morning, Charlie Savage describes the latest
thinking from the DOJ about how to criminally prosecute WikiLeaks and Julian
Assange.  Federal investigators are "are looking for evidence of any
collusion" between WikiLeaks and Bradley Manning -- "trying to find out
whether Mr. Assange encouraged or even helped" the Army Private leak the
documents -- and then "charge him as a conspirator in the leak, not just as
a passive recipient of the documents who then published them."  To achieve
this, it is particularly important to "persuade Private Manning to testify
against Mr. Assange."  I want t

Re: [Marxism] Visa, Mastercard and PayPal's funding Illegal Israeli Settlements? Priceless.

[Dennis Brasky]

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==


On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:14 PM, S. Artesian wrote:

> 
>
>
> Think you're missing the point, JB... that being that while Mastercard et
> al
> disqualified, [and even seized, no?] contributions made to Wikileaks on
> "legal" grounds, the same corporations are quite happy to allow
> contributions to illegal projects.
>
>
Precisely - at least you're not going senile!

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Re: [Marxism] Lou should talk of Vulgarity Hah! Look in the Mirror

[Louis Proyect]

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On 12/16/2010 1:02 PM, Carrol Cox wrote:
> Please unsub me.
>
> Carrol
>
> Louis Proyect: Furuhashi ... vulgar anti-imperialist traveling circus.
>

I will unsub you, Carrol, just as I unsub anybody who expresses 
such a wish. In terms of vulgar anti-imperialism, however, I would 
refer comrades to an important New Left Review article by Val 
Moghadam that makes essentially the same point that has been made 
by me and by Iranian Marxists who detest the pro-Khomeini 
propaganda spread by Furuhashi at MRZine. Here's an excerpt from 
Moghadam's article that should be immediately recognizable from 
anybody who has read MRZine over the past 5 years or so. Contact 
me if you would like a copy of the article.

---


New Left Review I/166, November-December 1987
Val Moghadam
Socialism or Anti-Imperialism? The Left and Revolution in Iran

Throughout 1979 and 1980, the Left was faced with the difficulty 
of coming to grips with the nature of the new regime and 
formulating a policy of coexistence or confrontation. Most Left 
organizations adopted a position of either qualified support or 
total defence. Only two (the Maoist Peykar and the group led by 
Ashraf Dehghani, former Fedaii guerrilla and sister of the 
communist martyr Behrouz) were absolutely opposed to the new 
political authority, not so much because of its Islamic character 
or non-democratic tendencies as because of what they saw as a 
continuation of capitalist or comprador rule. Peykar, staunchly 
rejecting any alternative to a people’s democratic republic, 
regarded the Mojahedin and the Tudeh Party as hopelessly 
compromised with ‘populist’ or ‘revisionist’ notions of popular 
sovereignty. It therefore reserved most of its criticisms and 
debates for the Fedaii, ridiculing their conceptualization of the 
new regime as ‘petty bourgeois’ and referring to the Bazargan 
administration as a ‘traitorous government’ that served the 
interests of ‘comprador capitalists’ and enjoyed a ‘direct link 
with imperialism’. In contrast, ‘the clerical faction in power and 
the Revolutionary Council (even though it has clearly proved its 
counterrevolutionary role in these nine months) does not have a 
direct interest in ensuring US imperialist rule in Iran.’ [27]

In fact most of the Iranian Left at this time expended more energy 
attacking the liberals in government than the clerical wing. Of 
course it was easy to denounce Bazargan, who made such openly 
anti-Left statements as the following one from September 1979: 
‘You Westerners don’t understand our Left. Our so-called leftists 
are the most dangerous enemies of the revolution. They did nothing 
in the struggle against the Shah. Now they incite workers to 
strike, gullible citizens to demonstrate, and provincial groups to 
rebel. They are Savak agents.’ [28] Naturally the mutual antipathy 
between the Left and the liberals worked to the advantage of the 
clerics.


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Re: [Marxism] What a Disgrace!! - Islamophobia and France's NPA

[Jeff]

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At 00:00 16/12/10 -0500, Dennis Brasky wrote:
>>
>> Islamophobia and France's NPA
>>
>> December 15, 2010 --
>> http://socialistworker.org/2010/12/15/islamophobia-and-the-npa

Thank you for forwarding this revealing piece. If the NPA wants to rescue
its reputation, it should issue a sincere apology and invitation for those
who walked out to return. I find the fact that the other left parties in
France are even more blind to Islamophobia of no consolation whatsoever.
- Jeff




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Re: [Marxism] Visa, Mastercard and PayPal's funding Illegal Israeli Settlements? Priceless.

[Joaquín Bustelo]

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On 12/15/2010 1:18 PM, Dennis Brasky wrote:
> Visa, Mastercard and PayPal all enable donations to be made to US-registered
> groups funding illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank in defiance of
> international law. It appears at least one of the major credit cards also
> enables donations to an extremist Jewish group that has placed a bounty on
> the lives of Palestinians.

Maybe I'm going senile, but it sure looks to me like the subject line 
of this post isn't just inaccurate, but irresponsible.

There is, in fact, no claim made in what was posted that any of the 
three financial service companies named gave even 10 cents to "Illegal 
Israeli Settlements."

The *actual* claim is that financial service companies allow persons or 
institutions to transfer funds to other persons and institutions without 
--outrageous as this may sound-- *WITHOUT* the express approval of 
Dennis Brasky.

Now, one would have thought, given the recent complications that Julian 
Assange and WikiLeaks have faced, that the idea that financial service 
companies are *entitled* to decide that some people or institutions do 
not have the right to engage in financial transactions would be a 
non-starter on this list.

But let me ALSO point out that Brasky restricts his condemnation to 
ultimate beneficiaries of financial transfers thousands of miles away in 
Palestine, while remaining silent about --judged by the same standard, 
HIS standard-- the complicity of major financial institutions with 
racist, anti-immigrant web sites like vdare.com and fairus.org. Not to 
mention the Democratic/Republican party.

But, of course, unworthy financial recipients could just as well 
collect their funds through the personal accounts of leaders or 
volunteers, so the ONLY way to stop them would be to require prior 
vetting before someone is allowed to engage in financial operations.

So what are the chances that the U.S. chauvinist, capitalist, 
imperialist, racist, sexist, homophobic, pig government is going to BAN 
giving money to chauvinist, capitalist, imperialist, racist, sexist, 
homophobic pig groups or individuals? Like .001%, but I'm probably 
exaggerating the likelihood of that happening.

And given the opportunity, what are the chances that the U.S. 
chauvinist, capitalist, imperialist, racist, sexist, homophobic, pig 
government will prohibit donations to WikiLeaks, Marxmail, Black 
Nationalist organizations, feminists, immigrants rights groups, gay 
rights campaigners and so on?

I'd say about 99.999%. Al least.

Now if you could argue, no way, the left would FORCE the government to 
only brand fascists and their ilk as non-persons for financial purposes, 
perhaps there would be more to talk about. But frankly, the difference 
between the strength of the U.S. left and zero is negligible.

I'm as much for dumping on the Zionist entity in Palestine and its 
backers as the next guy. But doing so in such a way as to suggest that 
giant corporations and their government should have even MORE control is 
not, IMHO, a good approach.

Joaquín






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[Marxism] Manning treatment

[David Walsh]

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http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/manning/



  

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