[Marxism] The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has never been convicted of that crime, nor of any other crime. Despite that, he has been detained at the U.S. Marine brig in Quantico, Virginia for five months -- and for two months before that in a military jail in Kuwait -- under conditions that constitute cruel and inhumane treatment and, by the standards of many nations, even torture. http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/manning Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Wikileaks Wrap-Up
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == For a summary of Wikileaks-related news from the last day or so, see here: http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/12/06/1813236 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Wikileaks Wrap-Up
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It's not really clear what's happening here (or, rather, why it's happening). Surely these attempts to harass Assange and Wikileaks aren't having any success, and will no doubt be futile (simply arresting and/or assassinating the guy, on the other hand, might have some effect). All it's doing is adding to Wikileaks' fame. The only thing I can imagine is that the goal might be to distract people from the content of the leaked documents, instead focusing on Wikileaks itself. I don't watch TV news, but even that seems to be totally unsuccessful. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Doug Henwood on Bill Gates's genius
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well put. A small correct, though: On 12/02/2010 10:43 AM, Louis Proyect wrote: Stallman developed EMACS, the most widely used Unix text editor, and went on to form the GNU foundation which distributes EMACS and other free software. The name of the organization founded by Stallman is the Free Software Foundation. Besides advocacy, its main contribution is the GNU Project, to create a completely free (as in 'free speech') operating system, which constitutes the majority of the well-known GNU/Linux (frequently though misleadingly called simply Linux) operating system. There's no organization named GNU, however. Stallman is a very cool guy. He makes no bones about being sympathetic to the Bolivarian Revolution, for instance, and there is a very strong free software movement in Venezuela (where the government is mandated to use only free software, partly for national security reasons). Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Doug Henwood on Bill Gates's genius
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Stallman's personal website is worth checking out now and then, by the way: http://stallman.org/ In particular, check out his various blog posts about his trip to Venezuela in 2004: http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Kentucky governor rebuilds Noah's Ark (no kidding!)
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == That's nothing. I like the congressman who says he doesn't believe in global warming because God promises in the Bible that there will never be another worldwide flood. That's *dangerously* aggressive ignorance. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Doug Henwood on Bill Gates's genius
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 12/02/2010 06:08 PM, Richard Fidler wrote: And check out Richard Stallman and the free software movement, http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/45532. That's those Greenlefts that Louis was castigating earlier today If I could change one thing about Lou, I'd make him less fond of ad homonym attacks. But anyway... In regards to free software versus open source terminology, Stallman and the Free Software Foundation have essentially lost the battle, though they won't admit it. Everyone else, sympathizers included, have accepted open source software as a synonym for free software, even if Mr. GPL himself can't get over his old rivalry with (the admittedly despicable) Eric S. Raymond (who plays Christopher Hitchens to Richard Stallman's Not-a-Completely-Reactionary-Piece-of-Shit). I'm as dedicated to the philosophy of free software as anyone, yet I'll still use the term open source, as it's undoubtedly more readily understood and *technically* descriptive. Imagine if the terms socialism and communism meant all the same things they do today, except the term communism came first. It's not that, except not. Unhelpfully, Jeff Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Wikileaks
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 11/30/2010 01:08 PM, Dan wrote: -On North Korea, Chinese Foreign Minister clearly states that the Chinese have little influence on what ges on in Pyongyang, that they profoundly distrust Kim Il-JUng, that they believe him to be an alcoholic, that they think he is firmly in charge of the military and that he alone makes the crucial decisions to provoke the West. China also believes that Kim Il-Jung wants to go down in the history books as a true nationalist and that his son who will succeed him, will be tasked with restoring good relations with the West. I assume you meant Kim Jong-Il? And that they don't seem to have any better material than the truely staggering contribution of ** (OK, supposedly private Manning) who gave them the Iraq War Diaries, the Afghanistan War diaries, the video of an incident in IRaq, the video of an incident in Afghanistan (as yet unpublished), the US emabssy cables and a mysterious last important database. Wikileaks released a lot of stuff before they became famous for the stuff mentioned above. None of it was so big, of course. Wikileaks, or some successor(s), will continue releasing leaked information on the Internet in the future. Their next big release will supposedly be leaked documents from major corporations. Tell me something big isn't happening, here. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Stephen Colbert, the person, interviewed by Reddit
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I don't know about the rest of you, but I really like Stephen Colbert. Despite his regular gushing about the greatness of American soldiers, I like him rather more than John Stewart these days (who I have ambivalent feelings towards, as others here also do). See Colbert's question-and-answer session after his recent in-character speech before Congress for instance, if you don't believe me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxeIO4pW05s Anyway, he just gave an interview to Reddit (a decentralized news aggregate and forum of sorts). That is, he answered 11 questions posed by the site's community. Before what was the become the unfortunate Rally to Restore Sanity was even announced, the Reddit community organized a campaign to convince Colbert to hold a Restoring Truthiness rally in mockery of Beck's Restoring Honor rally, by donating money to a charity Colbert promotes (which gives money to public schools requesting funding for specific projects, mostly primary schools) in order to get his attention. It gives insight into his motives behind the show he puts on which mocks the personality-driven talk shows on American 24-hour news stations that are so big these days. http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ee20j/stephen_colbert_has_answered_your_questions/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Washington considers espionage charges against Assange
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 11/30/2010 04:48 PM, MARGARET WYLES wrote: Sorry, but something is not adding up for me. If he's got information, why is he piecemealing it out? Isn't he afraid he might not be in a position to do so if he waits? And if it really is important information that the public should know about, might it not be prudent to release it all immediately? This is starting to resemble a publicity campaign for a new movie. Coming Soon to news outlets everywhere.. Publicity is exactly the point of releasing it piecemeal, as has been stated previously. Good! As for the problem of what might happen if Assange waits too long, Wikileaks has released a gigantic (as far as archives of text go) encrypted document called Insurance. All Assange or anyone he's told it to needs to do is release the password publicly and all the information contained is available at once. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Wikileaks
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 11/30/2010 05:23 PM, Intense Red wrote: While listening to NPR today prattling on about theories of how to squelch Wikileaks, the idea that made me laugh was the suggestion the US gov't should seize their assets. These people just don't get the Internet. :-) But with that said, I have to wonder how the ruling class will try to deal with this. To me, net neutrality issues will be critical along with advocating the idea of the 'net as a commons that all have access to. Net Neutrality is very important, but the death of even it won't change the fundamental rule of the Internet expressed by John Gilmore: The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. See also, the Streisand Effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect The age where a piece of information can be removed from public accessibility is quite possibly over. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Washington considers espionage charges against Assange
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 11/30/2010 05:30 PM, MARGARET WYLES wrote: As for the problem of what might happen if Assange waits too long, Wikileaks has released a gigantic (as far as archives of text go) encrypted document called Insurance. All Assange or anyone he's told it to needs to do is release the password publicly and all the information contained is available at once. So Assange is a publicity genius as well. Is that a bad thing? Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Washington considers espionage charges against Assange
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 11/30/2010 07:45 PM, S. Artesian wrote: Wait a minute... what does any of that matter? What matters are the documents, the content of the documents. It's a fair point that we have to remember to question the motive behind the documents being leaked, you have to grant Margaret Wyles that much. I just don't see the suspicious signs she does. Instead, I see a brave person doing the smartest and most savvy things he can in his situation. It's not like these leaks are covering up any even more damaging leaks. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Economy is not coming Back
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 09/23/2010 02:56 PM, Dan wrote: Yes, I miss Sartesian's incisive commentary on this list. And his immersion in Marx's take on things. I found I often (perhaps more often than not) disagreed with Sartesian's more contentious points of view, but I almost always valued them and his ability to argue for them. I would like it if the moderator would offer to make some kind of rapprochement with Mister S.A.. I think the list is weaker for his absence. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Jon Stewart Interviews Tim Kaine
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yesterday (Wednesday), Jon Stewart interviewed DNC chairman Tim Kaine. Stewart prods Kaine just enough to make allow him to make a complete fool of himself. Other parts of the episodes weren't so great (the segment on Iran, in particular), but the interview was perfect. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-september-8-2010/tim-kaine (warning: link currently doesn't work. should probably work soon.) Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] WikiLeaks Founder Accused of Rape in Sweden, Calls it Dirty Trick
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 08/21/2010 08:50 AM, Michael Perelman wrote: The accusations have been withdrawn. As far as I know, the original accusations (which were never specified) haven't been withdrawn. What has been withdrawn was the warrant for his arrest. According to the Swedish police, he isn't even a suspect (anymore?). Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Woman Question
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 07/20/2010 12:15 PM, Manuel Barrera, PhD wrote: Well, I'm not sure if this is a trick question, It wasn't a trick question, nor was it sarcastic or otherwise hostile. John, John, huh? Interesting... but assuming it's not, of course I mean more than opposing her sentence, which is death by stoning, a) to opposing her sentence of death by any means (witness reports that the IRI may decide to sentence her to death by hanging), b) to recognizing that this case and the campaign around it revolves around the broader struggle for democratic rights and opposition to the IRI, c) to understanding that much of the dynamic associated with the recent mass movement in Iran has been influenced by women and women's issues (e.g. opposition to the Hijab among others) and not the least, d) how women in the U.S. and Europe and around the world can connect with the struggle in Iran precisely because of the focus on democratic rights, especially the rights of women. In short, opposing the death penalty in this case, connects with so many other issues of importance to working people and the oppressed. My point, I guess, was that I was trying to ask you what your implicit criticism is of those you apparently think don't sufficiently oppose it. In other words, what changes on their part an integration of women's rights includes making the connection that opposing the death penalty for an Iranian woman would entail. Of course, it also raises rather important issues for the working class movement around the defense of Iran against imperialism (not the same as defense of the IRI necessarily), which we have seen occur in the related issue of Afghanistan and the Taliban where imperialism has tried to justify their war by claiming to defend women against backward pseudo-Muslim ideology This is what my specific concern was about, whether you believe that leftists should be active in the campaign against her execution and overall peril. We could then move on to questions like whether such a campaign is inherently imperialist. So, yeah, I thought it a useful case to bring forward to generate more fruitful discussions on the issues of women's liberation and Marxism than to continue discussing whether people (women or men) were being disingenuous or sexist surrounding a discussion of sexism and the Left. It's a topic worthy of discussion, but it does kind of get away from the original topic, sexism here in our culture, among the left, towards a discussion of sexism over there in a country none of us are from and that is currently in the crosshairs of imperialism. Perhaps I reached too far although, as I mentioned earlier, I was glad to see some discussion regarding the woman question (sic). Well, I sympathize with your motive. It would have been nice if some meaningful discussion had come about as a result of the whole stink, instead of personal accusations and defensiveness. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Why Misogynists Make Great Informants: THANK YOU MY BROTHAH!!!!!
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 07/19/2010 12:07 PM, Homo Indeterminatus wrote: It seems to me you could simply have said that, in your view, baseless accusations of sexism have been made on the list in the past. Names were unnecessary. I disagree. On the Internet (and in real life), I've come to doubt anyone who says that accusations of sexism have been made that were baseless, unless they can give specific details. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Why Misogynists Make Great Informants: THANK YOU MY BROTHAH!!!!!
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 07/19/2010 12:58 PM, Mark Lause wrote: I don't doubt Jeffrey's experience in the 1980s, but fifteen years earlier or thereabouts, black SWP and YSA members DID say such things this very very explicitly to women. Most of my time in the 80s was spent transitioning from an egg and sperm to a kindergartener in 1990. I did very little political organizing. I think you're thinking of Louis. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Why Misogynists Make Great Informants: THANK YOU MY BROTHAH!!!!!
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 07/19/2010 01:14 PM, Mark Lause wrote: Apologies. If you weren't in the organization until much later, I'm not at all surprised you didn't hear such things. I was never in the SWP or YSA. It was Lou who said he never heard those things, in a response to a post by me. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP Coloreds In Online Screed
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The National Tea Party Federation, an organization that represents the Tea Party political movement around the country, has expelled conservative commentator Mark Williams and his Tea Party Express because of an inflammatory blog post he wrote, federation spokesman David Webb said Sunday. Appearing on the CBS program Face the Nation, Webb said that Williams and the Tea Party Express -- which has held a series of events across the country to generate support for the movement -- no longer were part of the National Tea Party Federation. http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/07/18/tea.party.imbroglio/ It will probably be important to watch if the Tea Party Express faction continues and takes any supporters with them. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP Coloreds In Online Screed
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The worst thing about this racist parody? How fucking lazy it is. What kind of racist would want to end big money welfare? What they need to do is start handing the bail outs directly to us coloreds! Of course, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is the only responsible party that should be granted the right to disperse the funds. Give me a break. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] BP claim the leak has been stopped
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/7893358/Deepwater-Horizon-oil-spill-stopped-say-BP.html http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gIXWYBTpLtSayJtg41LKXpxSxVPAD9GVM9P80 This article in the NY Times supposedly adds the following don't celebrate too soon bit of information: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/16/us/16spill.html?_r=4src=mv The last valve on the new cap has been closed, and the flow of oil and gas into the sea has stopped. That doesn't mean it's over. It is unclear whether the steel casing deep in the well can contain the pressure. The risk is that it could burst, which would eventually cause a rupture on the sea floor that would make things much messier to deal with. However, they're monitoring the pressure buildup carefully and if the pressure holds over the next 48 hours (indicating there is no leak below the sea floor), they'll assess what to do next. If it doesn't hold at the expected readings, then they'll re-attach the pipe used for producing to the surface and start collecting again. Regardless of what happens the relief well still has to be completed to permanently plug the well with cement, which could take a couple more weeks. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] `Capitalism' Not So Sacred to Americans as Mood Sours
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 07/14/2010 08:19 AM, michael perelman wrote: But the success of that PR campaign is nothing new. The decreasing popularity of capitalism is. Actually, the survey is quite positive for capitalists. The use of the term free enterprise was the result of a PR campaign from the 40s or 50s to make capitalism sound more appealing than capitalism. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] BitTorrent advice
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 07/13/2010 06:03 AM, Louis Proyect wrote: Just for argument's sake, if Random House decides to sit on the memoir I did with Pekar, what would be the legal and technical ramifications of putting the book on BitTorrent? Contact me at l...@panix.com. I really don't want this being discussed on the list for obvious reasons. I'll start with technical: If there is sufficient interest in your memoir, it would be a simple matter of getting it out there in the swarm: in other words, get one copy of the book uploaded and others will take care of the rest. Doing so is simple. If, on the other hand, the person wishing to download a copy will only occasionally come around, it's more of a problem. There will have to be at least one person running a BitTorrent client who keeps a copy available indefinitely. Since I don't know your situation, I don't know if doing so would be legal or not. You could almost certainly get away with it, though. You might not want to have any direct involvement in doing so, in the unlikely case that Random House decides to investigate and somehow links it to, say, your computer (I don't know what kind of relationship you have with them). Lawsuits based on file-sharing activity are extremely rare. Almost certainly, anyone providing something illegally online will simply get a demand to cease doing so. If the total file size isn't too large, you could put it up on one of the many free and anonymous file hosting sites. They generally limit the size to under around 50-100MB. You can split the file(s) up into 50-100MB pieces, but it's a small hassle to download each one and you can't cue them up to download one after another or simultaneously, so too many pieces gets extremely irritating and time-consuming for the downloader. You could try recruiting some people to keep your memoir in their BitTorrent seed (ie, upload) list. I'd be willing to (I have a great ISP, which won't give any information on you or give you any reprimand unless ordered to by court) but I don't run my client 24/7 so, practically speaking, you'd need more than one person like myself. Multiple people would also protect each of them. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Anti-death group says others abandon fight for Mumia Abu-Jamal;
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It's the case of Mumia Abu-Jamal in particular that first won me over to the anti-death penalty side. I know I'm not the only one. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Cockburn Joins Right Wing POW-MIA Hysteria
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 06/13/2010 12:37 PM, Tom Cod wrote: Recently Alexander Cockburn solidified his drift into neo-con right wing demagogue I'm hearing about this guy a lot on this list. What was he like beforehand? Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Money from salvage oil to protect wildlife?!
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The PR will probably last for about as long as it takes for the press release to become old news (a week?). At any rate, the PR value certainly isn't going to increase with time. If anything real comes of this announcement (doubtful), I don't see how it wouldn't be a good thing. On 06/09/2010 06:59 AM, brad wrote: Great, now the longer the spill happens the more money for wildlife and PR for BP. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Dalai Lama: I am a Marxist
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The Dalai Lama is living proof that the character of a movement or regime (or, in his case, a regime in exile) is not defined by the philosophy of its leader. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Alexander Cockburn: stop picking on Rand Paul
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == If I may add to the idea of the ambiguous middle class: In the advanced capitalist countries, we can indeed separate virtually everyone into those who own means of production and those who don't. But clearly we have more than two groups when it comes to wealth and status. The middle class, then, occupies that murky space between the two basic classes created by capitalism. The easiest way to define it would be to say that it's a synonym for the petty-bourgeoisie, or those who are both owners and workers. But since they enjoy roughly equal social and economic status with what sociologists like to call professional workers and what a Marxist might call the labor aristocracy, it seems unavoidable to include them as well. So, roughly, in my mind, the middle class is the proletarian elite and the bourgeois peasants. If you ask me, the nature of the labor aristocracy is one of the most difficult questions out there. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Roots of Rand Paul's Civil Rights Resentment
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Speaking of the Paul family, his father has a long history of association with the racist far-right. He had various newsletters bearing his name that made blatantly racist comments for decades. He makes the absurd claim that he didn't know this sort of thing was being printed in his newsletter because he didn't read it. Even more absurdly, everyone seems to believe him. Here's a bit about it from Wikipedia: === On January 8, the day of the New Hampshire primary, The New Republic published a story by James Kirchick quoting from selected newsletters published under Paul's name. The publications had various names bannering Ron Paul prominently in the title, such as The Ron Paul Survival Report. Kirchick said that the writings showed an obsession with conspiracies, sympathy for the right-wing militia movement, and deeply held bigotry, and were saturated in racism, charges echoed by Kevin Drum of the Washington Monthly's Political Animal blog. Kirchick noted that one article referred to African-American rioters as barbarians and suggested that the Los Angeles riots of 1992 only stopped when it came time for blacks to pick up their welfare checks. Other issues gave tactical advice to local militia groups and advanced various conspiracy theories. === Many, even worse examples can be found here: http://newsone.com/nation/casey-gane-mccalla/ron-pauls-racist-newsletters-revealed/ On 05/22/2010 08:11 PM, caroltheart...@aol.com wrote: The Roots of Rand Paul's Civil Rights Resentment Lurking beneath the Paul family's libertarian politics is a strategy of pandering to populists like Pat Buchanan Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Obama and Kagan as generation X'ers
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 05/19/2010 10:02 AM, Heath Eddy wrote: Anyone know when the change in generations between the Baby Boomers and Gen X occurred? Aren't you forgetting the Pepsi Generation? /sarcasm Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Communist debate group chooses Stalin as next topic
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 05/17/2010 09:29 AM, Mehmet Cagatay wrote: utilizing their time by contemplating on socialist alternatives rather than to fool around with all the distracting stupidities that young minds are supposed to concern. I resent the notion that those two are mutually contradictory. I'll keep my sex, drugs and rock and roll, thank you very much. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Communist debate group chooses Stalin as next topic
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 05/17/2010 10:28 AM, Mehmet Cagatay wrote: As regards to drugs, I only had a brief experience with weed and it didn't go well. You get a similar intoxication with alcohol without the unpleasant bonus of headache. So you'd better stick to wine, beer and whiskey imho. I consider it to always be worth pointing out that there's zero basis for not counting alcohol in the drug category. I started writing quite a bit about the qualities of other sorts of drugs besides weed and booze, but decided I was probably getting far too off-topic for this list, so I took it out. You're welcome, Louis. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Is this a Trotskyist list, Or what limits
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == First, I'd like to belatedly comment that the accusation that Trotsky was a Nazi German collaborationist is just stupid beyond description. It's like the allegations that Saddam Hussein had ties to the terrorist attack on 9/11. It's such a fucking moronic thing to allege and so beyond worth discussing that I don't have words to describe it (I think I just spoke a redundant sentence; forgive me). Second, I'd like to mention that I consider myself a sort of learning-to-be-scientific socialist; a communist, but a Marxist-in-training. So forgive any deep deficiencies in my logics. On 05/10/2010 09:45 AM, waistli...@aol.com wrote: Your question tend to prove such is needed. An indigenous American Marxism would look like America and our unique experience as a pure capitalist country. I hold the notion that one of the very biggest mistakes revolutionary socialists, specifically Marxists, have made in this country was to abandon the IWW in favor of founding a Comintern Communist party; abandoning an organic, vibrant, powerful, revolutionary working class movement in order to try to parrot the Russian revolution, a revolution with profound weaknesses rooted in the backwards nature of Russian society. An indigenous American Marxist movement would have, from the time of its event, learned a great deal from the Russian experience but been most healthy to differ greatly from it. As much as I respect Lenin, considering him to be the only Marxist after Engels and The Man Himself to have made theoretical contributions worthy of being considered cannon (specifically, I think his theory of imperialism completed classical Marxism), an indigenous American Marxist movement would have learned more from Luxembourg than Lenin. 1. We would evolve a somewhat different assessment of political fascism since the first successful fascist movement took place in America. I don't know if we're on the same page on this at all, but I see fascism as a phenomenon that's mostly remained foreign to USAmerica, to this day. We had an indigenous American Far-Right movement, an ideology based on the supremely of one race over others, long before Mussolini and Hitler. More importantly, we've never had a situation where our bourgeoisie has been threatened enough by a revolutionary proletariat to have any need for fascism. We've had sympathies among the elite, and sympathies among the most creatively ideological racists for fascism, but never really a truly, substantial fascist movement. Allegations that, say, the Tea Parties are fascist are delusional. To reiterate: our far-right is indigenous, not derived from the fascist movement in Europe. 4. We would most certainly possess an entirely different assessment of the path of development of the proletarian movement because our country never evolved a social democratic movement or political trend. What is called the lesser of two evils syndrome is really a peculiar development in America without a social democratic body politic. Social Democracy evolved against the backdrop of the break down of economic and political feudalism and the need of the rising bourgeoisie to enlist the proletarian masses in support of its revolution against old feudal production relations. The sooner we stop trying to shoehorn American history into European political frameworks the better. I don't really have anything more to add to the rest of this post. I'd just like to state that strongly I agree with the basic sentiment. Aimless rambling over, Jeff Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Obama improves image of US Empire
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 04/20/2010 07:27 PM, Lajany Otum wrote: Judging by the graph, only about 13% of Mexico views our world influence favorably. Wow!! I didn't know that the world influence of the subscribers to the marxism list was large enough to register, favourably or otherwise, on a BBC poll in Mexico. What makes you assume that by our I was grouping myself with this list? I could have meant my fellow brown-haired La Monte Young fans who live in towns that start with the letter M. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Obama improves image of US Empire
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 04/21/2010 05:49 PM, Greg McDonald wrote: Wow! you into Lamonte Young? He's the shit. Indeed, the man's ridiculously brilliant. I became a fan of his through my obsession with The Velvet Underground. A recording of the Theatre of Eternal Music makes an excellent cell phone ringtone. :) Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Obama improves image of US Empire
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I'm pretty sure this is the article linked to: Poll shows US image improving abroad By Andrew Edgecliffe-Johnson in New York Published: April 19 2010 01:31 | Last updated: April 19 2010 01:31 International opinion of America’s role in the world has turned positive for the first time in more than five years, according to an annual poll for the BBC World Service. In 20 of the 28 countries polled, the United States was viewed favourably, with an average of 46 per cent of the 30,000 adults surveyed saying its influence in the world was positive compared with 34 per cent saying its influence was negative. More than a year after Barack Obama’s inauguration, “it appears the ‘Obama effect’ is real,” said Steven Kull, director of the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, which conducted the survey with Globescan, a polling group. “Its influence on people’s views worldwide, however, is to soften the negative aspects of the United States’ image, while positive aspects are not yet coming into strong focus,” he added. Negative ratings of the US dropped nine points, while positive ratings rose a more modest four points, but it overtook China, which 41 per cent saw as a positive influence. “While China’s image is stuck in neutral, America has motored past it in the global soft power competition,” Mr Kull said. Iran was the least favourably viewed nation, with just 15 per cent – including majorities in Mexico and Pakistan – saying it had a positive influence, followed by Pakistan with 16 per cent and North Korea with 17 per cent. The poll identified Germany as the world’s most favourably viewed country, with 59 per cent positive ratings, followed by Japan on 53 per cent and the United Kingdom with 52 per cent. Views of the UK’s influence in the world declined significantly in 11 countries, however, rising in only three countries. Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2010. You may share using our article tools. Please don't cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web. [Go to hell, Financial Times! --Jeff] Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Obama improves image of US Empire
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Also, this article has more information: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8626041.stm Judging by the graph, only about 13% of Mexico views our world influence favorably. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Christopher Hitchens -- An 'Expert' on George Orwell
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Funny, I always thought that everyone agreed that Old Major represented both Marx and Lenin. Isn't that what you guys assumed? On 04/18/2010 05:03 AM, Paul Flewers wrote: In a big article on George Orwell's Animal Farm in the Guardian's literary review supplement (17 April 2010), Christopher Hitchens writes: 'There is, however, one very salient omission. There is a Stalin pig and a Trotsky pig, but no Lenin pig. Similarly, in Nineteen Eighty-Four we find only a Big Brother Stalin and an Emmanuel Goldstein Trotsky. Nobody appears to have pointed this out at the time (and if I may say so, nobody but myself has done so since; it took me years to notice what was staring me in the face).' http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/apr/17/christopher-hitchens-re-reads-an imal-farm This statement is factually incorrect. I had an edited collection of essays on Orwell published in 2005, George Orwell: Enigmatic Socialist. In my contribution, 'I Know How But I Don't Know Why: George Orwell's Conception of Totalitarianism', I wrote: 'The taciturn, devious and ambitious Napoleon is clearly Stalin, and the more inventive and vivacious Snowball is an equally obvious Trotsky... There is, however, no porcine Lenin, as Major (Marx) dies just before the animals take over the farm, although the displaying of Major's skull is reminiscent of the rituals around the embalmed Bolshevik leader.' John Molyneux wrote in his contribution, 'Animal Farm Revisited', an article originally published in 1989: 'It is clear that Napoleon represents Stalin, just as Old Major is Marx and Snowball is Trotsky. Who then represents Lenin? Since Orwell depicts the Rebellion as led by two pigs, Napoleon and Snowball, one is forced to the conclusion that Napoleon also represents Lenin. Thus in Animal Farm the figures of Lenin and Stalin are merged into one character.' Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Stalin Archive now on the Revolutionary Democracy website
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 04/18/2010 09:31 AM, Marxist Front wrote: These colossal victories would not have been possible without the defeat of the oppositions led by Trotsky and Bukharin whoopposed socialist industrialisation and collectivisation. By the time ofthe death of Stalin a large people’s democratic camp had been built up in central and eastern Europe and Asia alongside the USSR. This stuff is delusional and not worth debating I have a question though: Does this new Stalin archive contain works that marxists.org doesn't? Because I'm sure they'd love to have it. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Anatomy of Teabagging
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 04/17/2010 01:11 PM, S. Artesian wrote: the movement as a social movement should not be viewed as an opportunity to win angry people over to the left. But if we agree that many people sympathize with the Tea Party because there's no Left alternative, because the Tea Parties are the only game in town for those fed up with the US government... Then isn't winning these people over exactly what we want to do? Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] T.A.M.I
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 04/09/2010 08:39 AM, S. Artesian wrote: For those whose lives were saved by rock 'n roll, the Shout Factory has released a DVD of the entire TAMI show-- the one were James Brown made the Stones afraid to follow him on stage. I have no idea what makes that at all relevant to this list, but thank you for reminding me of it. :) I wanted to get it but forgot the name. Also, I'm pleased by any Velvet Underground reference. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Red baiting in the Australian climate movement
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I have some small, partially-developed thoughts on this matter... If the Left were to be entirely honest, it couldn't say that humanity has no hope of surviving extermination under the capitalist system. The bourgeoisie haven proven itself capable of fighting its nature, in able to preserve its existence, in the past -- I think we all agree that this is the legacy of Social-Democracy after the First World War. Of course, its success in doing so against proletarian revolution in the 20th Century was not a sure thing, and its success in doing so against environmental extinction in the 21th Century is not a sure thing either -- and this time, it means not just their end, but all of humanity's. On the other hand, and I know I'm preaching to the choir here, the only way the survival of the human race is possible is with a mass movement against the logic of capitalism, against profit-above-all-else. Because of this, claims that fighting for capitalist solutions are the only realistic and therefor responsible means of saving humanity are incredibly dangerous. What is needed is rutheless criticism of the logic of capitalism; let the capitalists work to prove us wrong! Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Wikileaks
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Has anyone tried to browse the Wikileaks website? I can't seem to find where you can browse/search the documents on their site, only a list of Recently released documents on the homepage. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Tea Party Poll
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 04/06/2010 05:19 AM, brad bauerly wrote: Which begs the question as to the material circumstances driving this movement (other than economic hard times for middle and working income folks). We might want to start by investigating why 15% of all Blacks are apparently Tea Party supporters. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Tea Party Poll
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 04/06/2010 12:43 PM, S. Artesian wrote: I think the poll is shite. No arguments here. I hear the Tea Partiers are against taking the census because it asks for your ethnicity, income and religion. Maybe their more bored members agreed to rebel against the tyranny of demographic data by lying about their race when asked. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] militias
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 03/30/2010 07:02 PM, Jeff wrote: No, they are good ol' Fascists that the corporate interests are NOT using, but they are HOPING that they will be used soon! That's why they arm themselves: for the coming race war that many of the more open fascists have been talking about for years. And now with Obama they see it coming closer. On Stormfront, a White Nationalist website, there was quite a debate during the 2008 election over whether an Obama victory would really be a bad thing, or if it would be good because it would finally bring about the longed-for race war. I haven't checked what their current assessment is, but I do know they're quite energized by the Tea Party movement. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Kucinich on Democracy Now
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Since nobody else mentioned it, Dennis Kucinich was on Democracy Now! again today, defending his new position in support of the bill: http://www.democracynow.org/2010/3/18/dennis_kucinich_and_ralph_nader_a Kucinich echoes his critics who say his loyalties are to the Democratic party, not the lefty rhetoric he's most known for, when he explains outright that he changed his position when he realized that his one vote could actually keep the bill from passing. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Video of KKK Rally: 2010 South Georgia (last week)
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Not to criticize you for sending this, which I think was worthwhile, but for the first time in history I saw an insightful comment on a Youtube video: white power's all mainstream nowadays. these freaks don't come close to illustrating the hold racism actually has on the American conscience. How relevant are these last-generation white supremacists? Are their rallies growing in size? Does anybody outside their small numbers care? Greg McDonald wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxV9K3aw-h0 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] General Strike in Greece
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == How common is such a thing in Greece? A general strike of any substance is so out of the question here (even a symbolic one is a big deal), that I don't have an adjective available to describe what news of one would be like, but Greece is obviously no United States. Politicus E. wrote: A general strike has been called for on Feb. 24th, which will mark a continuation of the wave of strikes that began Feb. 10th. This general strike is being supported by the main social democratic union confederations ADEDY and GSEE; together, they represent a substantial fraction of the labour force. The customs workers, taxi and lorry drivers, are good recent examples of organizations that have participated in this strike wave. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Suicide Bomber
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Shane Mage wrote: Well, we all condemn him too. But does that mean it *wasn't*, at least in part, a reaction against evils perpetrated by the United States government? Perhaps, but my point is that the same is true of the 9/11 attacks, yet saying so has been verboten to this day. Just try saying so at a Teabag gathering. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Gays Against Gays in the Military
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What term would you have used? David Thorstad wrote: I have signed this petition, even though the cover note refers to an LGBT community that I believe is a pc figment of the imagination, and does not exist in the real world. David Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [microsound] More idiocy at Counterpunch
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == nada wrote: But the idea that this is 'mutilation' is *insulting* to the real *victims* of genital mutilation and which often done to young teenage girls against their will. If chopping off a portion of a body part isn't mutilation, what is? Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Why can't Marxmail use sensible subject headings?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == mkarad...@theplanet.net.au wrote: I've never understtod the aversion nearly all subscribers have about simply changing a silly subject heading when something completely different is being discussed there. Perhaps there is some reason other than inertia, and someone can enlighten me. If someone does change the subject line, please include the the old subject at the end for people like me who read Marxmail irregularly and follow threads by filtering messages by subject name. For example: *** New-Subject (was Old-Subject) *** Once the subject change is established, the old subject can be removed from future posts. Just a suggestion, of course. I don't make the rules around here. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fw: Dr. Kevorkian
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Jeff wrote: His one lesser, but unforgivable action, was to advocate for the organs of executed criminals in the US to become available for transplant, rather than denouncing the death penalty and anything associated with it. Organ donation should be mandatory for all carcases. Frankly, to deny something potentially life-saving to ill people because of some religious or romantic attachment to an otherwise useless hunk of meat is profoundly immoral. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Don't Ask, Just Tell
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == David Thorstad wrote: After Don't Ask, Don't Tell is repealed (as it inevitably will be) That Obama hasn't ended Don't Ask, Don't Tell is rather perplexing. My half-baked theory is that he's saving it for the next time he needs a distraction from more substantial going-ons. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Long Live the 5th International!
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == sobuadha...@hushmail.com wrote: It appears that Chavez is also acquainted with the Fourth International(s) too or else he would not have claimed the number five. Clearly, the new worldwide wave of socialism will not concern itself with Trotkyism vs. Stalinism. This obviously presents us with the very serious question of how to number the new international. Given that we are now facing socialism in the digital age, I say we make a nod to the 4th International while still proclaiming our intent to move beyond debates centering on the *old* way of numbering internationals, by adopting a binary numbering scheme. Long live the 101th International! Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] what we share with other animals
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Several here have come rather close to endorsing the notion that animals deserve some, but less moral consideration because of their relative intelligence to ours. I hope we can all agree how reasonable and convincing that argument is, and how anyone claiming to be a Marxist should feel for saying it. I'd like to quote from a favorite show of mine: [Planet Express: Meeting Room. The crew sit around the table and Bender puts a plate with a cover on the table.] FARNSWORTH: A toast to Leela. She showed us it's wrong to eat certain things. FRY: Hear, hear! BENDER: Let's get drunk! LEELA: Aww, thanks, guys. Pass the veal, please. BENDER: Here you go. [He passes a plate over.] FRY: Mmm, let me get some of that suckling pig. [Amy passes it to him. Bender holds up a plate.] BENDER: Who wants dolphin? [Everyone gasps.] LEELA: Dolphin? But dolphins are intelligent. BENDER: Not this one. He blew all his money on instant lottery tickets. FRY: OK. LEELA: Oh, OK. AMY: That's different. FARNSWORTH: Good, good. LEELA: Pass the blowhole. AMY: Can I have a fluke? HERMES: Hey, quit hogging the bottle-nose. FARNSWORTH: Toss me the speech centre of the brain! Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Cyber Cuba
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Lüko Willms wrote: I have just added the following information to the english language Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoani_S%C3%A1nchez on this blogger, Yoani Sánchez: - cut - Her Internet domain desdecuba.com is registered and hosted by Cronon AG, the subsidiary for enterprise customers and large resellers of Strato AG, Europe's second largest Web Space Provider. The contact address for that domain is the press spokesperson of Strato in Spain. The headquarters of Strato are in Berlin, Germany. Huh, I *thought* that looked oddly informative when I read it just now. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Cyber Cuba
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Lüko Willms wrote: I am at odds to understand your comment -- my English is not sufficient for that, and I probably also lack a sense for US matters. I meant that I was surprised to see the information you added - factually informative, therefor looking strange compared to the rest of the article. Anyway, my addtions have of course been deleted right away by some other users who claimed that a) it is not relevant, b) just spam for another website. Unfortunately, it's probably a lost cause. You'd have to win a majority of admins and regular editors (consensus in Wikispeak), and most of the ones interested will be Cubaphobes and the ubiquitous notability (more Wikispeak) police - and you'd only have a chance with someone in the second group. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Bob Dylan
Every middle-aged person I know loves him, except my father who thinks... his music sucks. He doesn't have radically different musical tastes in general, he just doesn't like Dylan. Maybe it's cause by a rare, recessive anti-Dylan gene. I don't know. S. Artesian wrote: I just thought his music sucked. - Original Message - From: Ron J rjacobs3...@charter.net To: David Schanoes sartes...@earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:13 PM Subject: [Marxism] Bob Dylan I always get a kick out of doctrinaire leftists when they talk about Bob Dylan. It reminds me of monotheists discussing polytheism. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Free pamphlet: `The Labour Aristocracy: The material basis of opportunism in the labour movement' | Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal
Joaquin Bustelo wrote: There are free software PDF readers and file creators, in addition to the Adobe reader being free of charge even if not freeware. Actually, that's what freeware means. Unfortunately, there's no convenient term in English for GNU-style free software, at least not without borrowing from other languages (libre software/software libre being a good choice). YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Queers: An oppressed, White, middle-class establishment
Not quite Stonewall: 40 years later the cops haven't changed, but we have http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/2398 From the article: Hopes for an unleashed queer fury, not quite Stonewall but not quite HRC, were quickly dimmed by the organizers of the rally, however. Messages were sent out on facebook reminding potential attendees that this was not a protest against the APD - in which we supposedly have queer allies - but rather one in support of gay establishments. Any suggestion that the protest actually happen at the police department was scuttled. People spread solidarity messages around facebook, referencing how similar this felt to being gay in '69 rather than black in '09. This shouldn't happen to us, this hasn't happened to us lately. An eery, subtle message being relayed through many such expressions was on display more explicitly by signs at the rally - how dare you treat us like THEM. Signs that kept asking the PD why they would target The Eagle rather than gangs, drug-pushers and muggers. Who made this call?, one sign asked, placing The Eagle on one side of a seesaw and various street crimes piled up on the other. We're law-abiding citizens, many said, and I never thought I'd see this again. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] BJP, CPM form alliance to win panchayat polls
For those of us who haven't memorized every acronym in every context under the sun, BJP stands for the Bharatiya Janata Party, a conservative, capitalist Hindu Nationalist party. The CPM is the Communist Party of India (Marxist). Politicus E. wrote: From the Times of India (29 August 2009): BURDWAN: Arch rivals BJP and CPM on Friday formed an alliance to win a gram panchayat election in Burdwan district. BJP leader Mala Dhara was made the chief of Purbasthali II gram panchayat as the 'Jatiya Ganashakti Morcha', an alliance between BJP and CPM, won ten out of 13 seats by defeating Trinamool Congress in the trust vote. With seven seats, Trinamool was earlier ruling the panchayat. BJP MLA Swapan Debnath, however, described CPM as an opportunist party and said the alliance was made to honour people's expectations. SOURCE: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/BJP-CPM-form-alliance-to-win-panchayat-polls/articleshow/4946669.cms YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/mqduck%40mqduck.net YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Woodstock 40 years ago: Country Joe McDonald's and Jimi Hendrix's antiwar classics | Links
Jim Farmelant wrote: That sort of thing was rather characteristic of much of the socialist movement in both the US and UK at the time. One of the leading figures in the American branch of the IWMA, was Victoria Woodhull, the first woman to run for president of the US, was a famous medium. That sort of thing aroused the disapproval of Marx Engels. Engels wrote a an article debunking spiritualism, Natural Science and the Spirit World, which was later published in *The Dialectics of Nature*. http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1883/don/ch10.htm Careful, now. You're talking about a hero of mine. Not only was she the first woman to run for president, but she was a White woman and her running mate was Frederick Douglas (though he wasn't actually involved in the campaign). She was a leader of the US branch of the IWMA, an abolitionist, feminist and advocate of free love. She published a newspaper that was the first to print the Communist Manifesto in the US (in English, anyway). Altogether, she was about the coolest person to ever live and the oldest person I've ever had a crush on. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's Note
Greg McDonald wrote: Richard Levins wrote: After perusing the discussion on rape, I would add marxfail. I do hope 4chan memes aren't starting to enter this list. http://images.google.com/images?q=fail YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
