Re: [Marxism] What to do? [Early morn "Labor Day" thoughts]
Bhaskar Sunkara wrote: > The same could be said of the Greens, except that primary campaign would > be irrelevant. The Greens are dead, mostly the result of tail-ending the Democrats. > > But what is the Democratic Party? Certainly it's largely neoliberal, > bourgeois to > say the least-- perhaps the world's second most enthusiastic major > capitalist party. > But is there not open primaries? Can a party without dues and with open > primaries even be called a party? Btw, you need to clean up your email. These "stepladder" effects are strictly verboten. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] What to do? [Early morn "Labor Day" thoughts]
The same could be said of the Greens, except that primary campaign would be irrelevant. But what is the Democratic Party? Certainly it's largely neoliberal, bourgeois to say the least-- perhaps the world's second most enthusiastic major capitalist party. But is there not open primaries? Can a party without dues and with open primaries even be called a party? Such an electoral campaign would be important logical step at some point. An open, democratic, Marxist organization is obviously the more important and immediate task. Not that creating a viable party of opposition is *likely* to work, but I don't see how it's *possible* through the tactics that have been dominate on the American left. Louis Proyect: Anybody who runs as a Democrat is unlikely to have "openly Marxist" views. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] What to do? [Early morn "Labor Day" thoughts]
Bhaskar Sunkara wrote: > Maybe it's the naivety of youth, but I don't see why such an organization > couldn't openly run candidates in Democratic primaries on an openly > Marxist, oppositional platform for the sake of not a fantasy to "transform" > or "push the Democrats left", but to reach out to progressive forces that > are unfortunately held up in the Democratic camp? (Whether we like it or > not they are there.) Anybody who runs as a Democrat is unlikely to have "openly Marxist" views. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] What to do? [Early morn "Labor Day" thoughts]
I honestly don't think that our energies should be put toward electoral efforts by third parties. But there is no doubt that in the long-term a "party of the working class" is an absolutely necessity. Now I'm largely paraphrasing Larhs Lih and Mike Macnair, but such a party would need to be both a vanguard and a mass party. Kautsky (somewhat infamously) stated the need of the vanguard of the working class and intellectuals to bring the "good news" of socialism to workers, a mass party at the same time, because the party of the working class should be democratic, open and must clearly articulate its real platform (no modern Trotskyist hide-behind-a-front-group nonsense). The early SPD, which Lenin adapted to Russian circumstances (extreme state repression, illegality) modeled and the Bolsheviks around, pioneered rallies, petitions, all things we take for granted this adapted to the 21st century is an excellent model. In addition to simple trade unions, workers' clubs, community organizations, where all created on an openly working class, socialist basis. The Black Panther Party's efforts (free breakfasts, community centers, etc) is a more contemporary example of something similar to this. Basically it would take a mass workers' movement, combined with the "merger" of the socialist goal with a large chunk of that movement to build a principled *party of opposition* (one that does not aspire to ever manage the capitalist state or enter into coalition with capitalist forces). I don't think there is much hope in Green Party or Labor Party venture. This isn't even to mention that due to restrictive electoral laws the 3rd party venture is nearly impossible in the United States. For now building the embryo of a broad Marxist organization would be a good start. Maybe it's the naivety of youth, but I don't see why such an organization couldn't openly run candidates in Democratic primaries on an openly Marxist, oppositional platform for the sake of not a fantasy to "transform" or "push the Democrats left", but to reach out to progressive forces that are unfortunately held up in the Democratic camp? (Whether we like it or not they are there.) *recommended:* http://radicalebooks.blogspot.com/2009/07/revolutionary-strategy-by-mike-mcnair.html http://theactivist.org/blog/the-current-relevance-of-an-old-debate http://www.marxists.org/archive/kautsky/1909/power/index.htm I'm about to start up the BBQ, and I have no time to proof read this. (and I haven't put my contacts in yet.) Apologizes, Bhaskar On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Hunter Gray wrote: > > But, given the obvious dashing of hopes via the Obama administration and > its spectacular downward spiral in conjunction with mounting crises on > virtually every front, this general model, with a social justice > constituency much, much broader than Labor alone, might now serve as a > meaningful approach. If it can develop and maintain some genuinely > visionary radical positions and, somehow, overcome the oft lack of > inter-union solidarity, endemic Leftist bickering, the problem of some > liberal timidity, ego trips -- and other obstacles including co-opting > efforts by the Democratic "establishment," it just might emerge as a potent, > highly constructive force. 'Way down the pike, who knows what could develop > from it in a realistic third-party sense? > YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] What to do? [Early morn "Labor Day" thoughts]
This is geared toward a discussion of sorts on RBB. And it isn't my Labor day -- but it'll do as a handle for this: Most of us are aware that third party efforts in this country, since the days of Debs and the pre-WW1 Socialist Party, have borne no fruit in the sense of really mass support. They have, in many cases, generated creative ideas and their activists have often been important forces in building constructive dissent and, in the case of the Left, achieving many significant victories in many grassroots social justice pursuits. They do provide alternatives for those who, in good conscience, cannot support either of the two major parties. But, bluntly, they haven't gotten to first base in meaningful political victories and achieving -- for better or worse, depending on the nature of the particular party -- systemic change. And, lately, they've just been very minor shadows. [Individual members continue to make activist contributions.] In 1991, a number of labor activists, including the late Tony Mazzocchi, Secretary-Treasurer of the Oil, Chemical and Atomic Workers Union [now called PACE and tied, at least somewhat, to the Steelworkers union -- launched Labor Party Advocates. Though some long range hopes focused vaguely on a third party, the organization -- supported by some international unions, a range of local unions, and individuals [I was a member for years] -- saw its immediate role as hard-hitting advocacy, with an especial focus on the Democratic Party. But, in the end, a paucity of real solidarity in the union world and the corrosive effects of superficial Clinton "reforms" saw Labor Party Advocates fail to catch real fire, and it gradually faded. But, given the obvious dashing of hopes via the Obama administration and its spectacular downward spiral in conjunction with mounting crises on virtually every front, this general model, with a social justice constituency much, much broader than Labor alone, might now serve as a meaningful approach. If it can develop and maintain some genuinely visionary radical positions and, somehow, overcome the oft lack of inter-union solidarity, endemic Leftist bickering, the problem of some liberal timidity, ego trips -- and other obstacles including co-opting efforts by the Democratic "establishment," it just might emerge as a potent, highly constructive force. 'Way down the pike, who knows what could develop from it in a realistic third-party sense? Solidarity, Hunter [Hunter Bear] HUNTER GRAY [HUNTER BEAR/JOHN R SALTER JR] Mi'kmaq /St. Francis Abenaki/St. Regis Mohawk Protected by Na´shdo´i´ba´i´ and Ohkwari' Check out our Hunterbear website Directory http://hunterbear.org/directory.htm [The site is dedicated to our one-half Bobcat, Cloudy Gray: http://hunterbear.org/cloudy_gray.htm See Outlaw Trail: The Native as Organizer: http://hunterbear.org/outlaw_trail1.htm [Included in Visions & Voices: Native American Activism [2009] And see Personal Narrative: http://hunterbear.org/narrative.htm YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
