Re: [Marxism] Queer Kids of Queer Parents Against Gay Marriage!
David Thorstad wrote: Resist the Gay Marriage Agenda! By queerkidssaynomarriage David, these two bloggers are the same people who wrote the Bay Area Reporter article you forwarded to the list last Thursday. If your intention is to demonstrate a significant trend against this demand by millions of gay people by gays themselves, you are doing a shitty job. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Queer Kids of Queer Parents Against Gay Marriage!
Louis: David, these two bloggers are the same people who wrote the Bay Area Reporter article you forwarded to the list last Thursday. If your intention is to demonstrate a significant trend against this demand by millions of gay people by gays themselves, you are doing a shitty job. == Sorry, and thanks. Nope. Trends had nothing to do with it. The piece was a well-reasoned, radical critique of the liberal gay agenda. I think the Maine vote may show a trend, if one is looking for one. The only trend I see for now is one toward liberalism by both gays and leftists. David YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Queer Kids of Queer Parents Against Gay Marriage!
David Thorstad wrote: Sorry, and thanks. Nope. Trends had nothing to do with it. The piece was a well-reasoned, radical critique of the liberal gay agenda. I think the Maine vote may show a trend, if one is looking for one. The only trend I see for now is one toward liberalism by both gays and leftists. Liberalism can be described as a political philosophy of capitalist reform. How in the world is gay marriage liberal? It is a civil right type of demand. If the state of Mississippi made miscegenation illegal, would you accuse Black and white couples of liberalism if they sought to wipe the law off the books? YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Queer Kids of Queer Parents Against Gay Marriage!
Just on the substance of what these two young lesbians are saying: I sympathize with a lot of it, especially remembering the passionate discussions that went on until all hours of the night in David's Thorstad's apartment in the summer of 1971 when I crashed there while on temporarily assignment at 410 West (and thank you for that, David!). I have often told people that if you had raised the slightest suggestion at that time that in 2009 gay people would be in the streets demanding the right to marry, you would have been answered by peals of contemptuous laughter. However, the authors make one basic mistake: they assume that being gay makes one radical, and it isn't so. Gay people are, as we know, in all classes, all races, in every walk of life. We may disagree with them, but there are gay people who are patriotic and wish to join the military. And there are gay people who want the white-picket- fence, normal family life. They have the right. My opinion: gay liberation is about the right of individual gay people to make choices freely for their own lives. And that means that it's wrong to exclude them from the armed forces, and if the state has provision for civil marriage for heterosexual couples, it is blatant discrimination to deny it to homosexual couples. One could argue that the state should abolish civil marriage for both straights and gays, and I might even agree with that. But that's not on the agitational agenda today. Nevertheless, I think that the ideas that are presented in Resist the Gay Marriage Agenda! should be heard and taken seriously. Tom YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
