[MLL]Re: Militarising the Revolution
[A pertinent contribution to the discussion at hand from the archives of downwithcapitalism...] Engels, speaking of the struggles of 1848: '[T]he military have, on their side, the disposal of artillery and fully equipped corps of skilled engineers, resources of war which, in nearly every case, the insurgents entirely lack... [S]ince then there have been very many more changes, and all in favor of the military... The arming of this enormously increased number of troops has become incomparably more effective... On the other hand, all the conditions on the insurgents' side has grown worse' (Introduction to Marx's Class Struggles in France, International n.d., pp. 22 23-24). Obviously, the 'arming of this enormously increased number of troops,' since guided missiles, computerized radar, not to mention nukes, etc., etc., is even MORE redoubtable. To suggest that communists, armed with only handguns, can face off against, say, star wars equipment is hopelessly nave. Did rifles do the Black Panthers much good? That said... 'Does that mean that in the future the street fight will play no further role? Certainly not. It only means that the conditions since 1848 have become more unfavorable for civil fights, far more favorable for the military. A future street fight can therefore only be victorious when this unfavorable situation is compensated by other factors. Accordingly, it will occur more seldom in the beginning of a great revolution than in its further progress, and will have to be undertaken with GREATER FORCES' (ibid., p. 24, emphasis added). Allowing myself just a little speculation. I would surmise that the 'greater forces' to which Engels refers, above, might include SERIOUS weapons---weapons obtained secretly and illegally. All of which, of course, would MERELY SUPPLEMENT the real motive forces of revolution---namely, the inability of the (capitalist) ruling class to continue ruling coupled with MASS preparedness to replace such rule with the rule of the masses. Ryan: What kind of force do you think we have to use against the government... I don't think spears and arrows are affective anymore and rocks just don't seem to keep them down. Guns are a necessary tool for a revolution, we will only be tossed to the side if we don't come out fighting. Well, as the Engels quote suggests, today, handguns ARE spears and arrows compared to what sort of goodies the Pentagon will unleash in a (strictly) military conflict. The sort of weapons communists will need, to back up a MASS movement, are not available on the 'free' market anyway; those will have to acquired extra-legally. If one guided missile, and that's the sort of weapon I'm talking about, can take out, say, 100,000 people in the street, then defending the proliferation of handguns---popguns!---when this proliferation has primarily led to exterminating the poor (who communists wish to entreat) by, alas, other poor people (who communists wish to entreat), offers little in return for the reactionary purposes it serves. Here, it may be useful to return to Gee's earlier statement: 'Any classless democracy requires that each member be able to participate on an even keel, as novelist Orwell noted in describing the shotgun on the wall as being a sign of democracy.' That made sense, more or less, in the 18th century when muskets were the most common weapon used by organized militia AND property-owning citizen alike. There TRULY was an 'even keel'---an even TECHNOLOGICAL keel. We would not be out of line to say that each gun was a vote, therefore, each citizen had a vote; one vote per person, that seems to be what Orwell was saying: each citizen to hold an equal amount of power. To transfer that conception to today's society proves unsatisfactory, however. While each citizen may own a firearm, the ruling class own computerized missile systems. Today in America, there is no even keel; there is no parity of equal votes. This, of course, is EXACTLY the problem with libertarian apologetics for the mature regime of capitalism: those who say that 'everyone' has an equal vote (equal impact upon governance) or equal freedom of speech (equal impact upon discourse) falsely say that the general rules that governed the 18th century are applicable today. And I submit the same applies to handguns. Orwell's shotgun on the wall, as it pertains to this discussion, is an expression of INDIVIDUAL liberty, atomized liberty---anarchism in a word---whereas the communist, at least the Leninist, expression of liberty is a COLLECTIVE one. If each individual had access to nuclear warheads, would democracy be at an even keel? If we're talking about, say, guided missile systems, then the idea of transferring Orwell's symbol of individual(ist) democracy, the shotgun on the wall, to modern times in the First World becomes ludicrous. Can we imagine the guided missile system on the wall? No---because such a weapon is the result of SOCIALIZED labor and CENTRALIZED application;
Re: [MLL]Test
-Original Message- From: Charles F. Moreira Date: 26 March, 2001 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [MLL]Test Klo, Thanks for your assessment and the commentary by Barry Stoller which is interesting and which I'll have to study in greater detail later. Your assessment is correct. It has, indeed, drifted into a news posting list. Where are Jim Hillier, Sven, bon moun, and many others? Are they still with us? With regards discussions on this list, I've been wondering whether we should have discussions dealing with contemporary issues like the one you, Steele and Stoller are discussing with references back to the classics and contemporary writings? Have we been discussing theoretical and historical issues in a vacuum which results in people quickly losing interest in continuing the thread of the discussion? On the other hand, is this a common occurrence on most lists, since I haven't received anything from the Cuba Si list since the 22nd, though activity on the Stalinskaya list appears to be picking up? Could a lack of list activity be because with the current slowdown in the economy, collapse of dotcom companies, retrenchments in the information technology and Internet industries, people simply have less time to spend on lists like this? Any ideas?? Charles I have an idea. Do you people can imagine how it looks like to non-speaking English to read long discussions? I do not say that we do not need discussions. I just say that is hard for most of us to participate on the list on the way which we would like just because English is not our language. Milan ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
Re: [MLL]Weekly Worker 376 (21/3/01)
-Original Message- From: Harry Steele Date: 26 March, 2001 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [MLL]Weekly Worker 376 (21/3/01) Comrades, I can only endorse J's comments on the so-called 'Weekly Worker' and urge that the list make it clear to these sinister and vicious Trotskyites that this is list is not to be used for advertising their wretched anti-communist rag nor their sick promotion of legalisation of peodophilia and heroin. As a member of the Communist Party of Great Britain until its liquidation in 1991 I can assure comrades that this group has nothing in common with the Marxist-Leninist tendencies that remained in that party. This faction/cult led by the openly Trotskyite Jack Conrad is not recognised in any way as a successor party to the liquidated CPGB indeed its main purpose is to detract from efforts aimed at a unified communist formation in Britain. The two communist organisations that emerged out of the CPGB in the seventies and eighties -- the New Communist Party and the Communist Party of Britain both treat the 'Conrad Party of Great Britain' with the disdain they deserve and other Marxist-Leninists in other organisations and of none, are waging a co-ordinated campaign to rid our movement of this provacative and deceitful clique. Comradely Harry Can you send me e-mail addresses of NCP and CPB? Comradely, Milan ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
Re: [MLL]I'm back
I am in total agreement with Harry Steel with regard to the Weekly Worker. I was once a contributor to the forerunner of Weekly Worker, then called The Leninist, which was posing as a pro-Lenin faction of the CP. Actually, despite their origins within the M-L movement they were a sect on their way towards Trotskyism. Actually, they have even gone further than Trotskyism now - they are ultra-trot if you like. Jim --- KloMcKinsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim Hillier wrote: Hello comrades, I'm back after a long absence. I've a lot to catch up on, so I'll be keeping a low profile for a while. In the meantime, I'd like to say welcome to Harry Steel - we've rubbed shoulders on the truly awful UK Left list run by the Conrad sect. For communism Jim Welcome back Jim. I was just asking about you. Where is Sven Butler by the way and would you give us your views on this Weekly Worker situation in Britain which has come up. Fraternally, Klo ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
[MLL]I'm back...too
Hi Klo, Jim and everyone, Actually I'm right here although I haven't been following the list for the last couple of months to be honest. I have been spending much time in the Linux and Opem Source movement and I have to confess that I even considered leaving the MLL'S moderators panel for good at some point down the road. Time is precious as you well know. Still I hope to be able to contribute to the management of the list even tho not in the way I used to in the past. This being said, I'd like to thank comrade Moreira for his dedication and for keeping the list up for the last couple of months. Talk to you later. For communism Sven Buttler PS: Jim, could you please send your private email address and phone number? Thanks --- Jim Hillier wrote: Hello comrades, I'm back after a long absence. I've a lot to catch up on, so I'll be keeping a low profile for a while. In the meantime, I'd like to say welcome to Harry Steel - we've rubbed shoulders on the truly awful UK Left list run by the Conrad sect. For communism Jim Welcome back Jim. I was just asking about you. Where is Sven Butler by the way and would you give us your views on this Weekly Worker situation in Britain which has come up. Fraternally, Klo ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
Re: [MLL]Test
Partija rada wrote: -Original Message- From: Charles F. Moreira Date: 26 March, 2001 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [MLL]Test Klo, Thanks for your assessment and the commentary by Barry Stoller which is interesting and which I'll have to study in greater detail later. Your assessment is correct. It has, indeed, drifted into a news posting list. Where are Jim Hillier, Sven, bon moun, and many others? Are they still with us? With regards discussions on this list, I've been wondering whether we should have discussions dealing with contemporary issues like the one you, Steele and Stoller are discussing with references back to the classics and contemporary writings? Have we been discussing theoretical and historical issues in a vacuum which results in people quickly losing interest in continuing the thread of the discussion? On the other hand, is this a common occurrence on most lists, since I haven't received anything from the Cuba Si list since the 22nd, though activity on the Stalinskaya list appears to be picking up? Could a lack of list activity be because with the current slowdown in the economy, collapse of dotcom companies, retrenchments in the information technology and Internet industries, people simply have less time to spend on lists like this? Any ideas?? Charles I have an idea. Do you people can imagine how it looks like to non-speaking English to read long discussions? I do not say that we do not need discussions. I just say that is hard for most of us to participate on the list on the way which we would like just because English is not our language. Milan Milan. You seem to speak English pretty well to me. I have no doubt you are doing a much better job with English than I could with your language, so please bear with us. Fraternally, Klo ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
Re: [MLL]I'm back...too
Sven Buttler wrote: Hi Klo, Jim and everyone, Actually I'm right here although I haven't been following the list for the last couple of months to be honest. I have been spending much time in the Linux and Opem Source movement and I have to confess that I even considered leaving the MLL'S moderators panel for good at some point down the road. Time is precious as you well know. Still I hope to be able to contribute to the management of the list even tho not in the way I used to in the past. This being said, I'd like to thank comrade Moreira for his dedication and for keeping the list up for the last couple of months. Talk to you later. For communism Sven Buttler Welcome back Sven. Always good to hear from you. People with a sensible analysis of life are a rare breed in this day and age and I would not like to see you fade out of the picture. I was only recently asking if anyone knew of your whereabouts. Fraternally, Klo PS. What is the "Linux and Opem Source movement." PS: Jim, could you please send your private email address and phone number? Thanks --- Jim Hillier wrote: Hello comrades, I'm back after a long absence. I've a lot to catch up on, so I'll be keeping a low profile for a while. In the meantime, I'd like to say welcome to Harry Steel - we've rubbed shoulders on the truly awful UK Left list run by the Conrad sect. For communism Jim Welcome back Jim. I was just asking about you. Where is Sven Butler by the way and would you give us your views on this Weekly Worker situation in Britain which has come up. Fraternally, Klo ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
