Re: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism! (to Brian)
-Original Message- From: James Brian Date: 16 April, 2001 7:57 PM > >--- Partija rada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I must point out that this statement of Vladimir >> Dapcevic wasn't fully in >> the sense of category #2 (as you call it) nor in the >> sense of category #1. >> Dapcevic stressed that question not as a question of >> Jews taking on national >> states financially, but that they wished, with the >> help of imperialists, to >> destroy Russia. It is needles to say that Russia >> wasn't completely destroyed >> along with SSSR, and all that actions of Jews we >> must look as actions of >> capitalism himself. You must admit that there exist >> category #3 which >> represents Jewish capital, and that capital is very >> powerful. Never mind if >> it is Jewish, American, or Serbian. >> Milan >> > >So all this means is that capitalist interests in >Russia, who happen to be Jewish, or Jewish mafia >groups, or whatever, have contributed to the economic >destruction of Russia. If this is true, I see no >problem in saying so. > >However, the point I raised previously is: what does >this have to do with "international zionism?" What >*is* "international zionism?" This is a very loaded >and troublesome phrase. > >Brian Dear Comrade Brian! Sorry, but then I missed the point which did you raised. I was thinking on powers which destroyed SSSR, and economically destroyed Russia. You have a right. What is the International Zionism in fact? Milan ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
[MLL]What is Partia rada?
I agree with Comrade Erik!!! Look “strange” – Look like a “mix” of the 3. Way - and the old European Workers Comities (they were agents). --- Yours in solidarity Per Rasmussen Denmark Familien Rasmussen http://home0.inet.tele.dk/pera/ Cuba SI! http://w1.1559.telia.com/~u155900388/ Viden er Magt! - Magten til folket! http://w1.1559.telia.com/~u155900373/ -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]På vegne af erik andersson Sendt: 14. april 2001 23:10 Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emne: [MLL](no subject) What is Partia rada? How coud the moderators on the list accept "Partija rada" on the list? Read this rubbish from the so called party: "You have a right. Just a week a go, President of our Party (Vladimir Dapcevic, 84) told us on CC a lot of things about Zionist Mafia connected with Yeltsin. Their intention was to destroy completely Russia. On the other hand, we have example of Israel which use fascistic policy against Palestinians. I do not wish to explain that I (nor our Party) do not have anything against Jews, but practice is what is important for Marxist-Leninists. Milan" It sounds antisemitic. The same persons want that Slobodan to Haague to be judged by Britan and US imperialism. This is a shame that the list accept " Partija Rada" The persons behind this group is just tools of NATO
[MLL]Website
Comrades, Our party's (Communist Party of India (ML) Red Flag) website is just up. It can be found at www.cpimlredflag.com . Please inform me about your comments as I had a hand in designing it. Revolutionary regards, Sanjay Singhvi
[MLL]Fw: Website
Comrade, When I sent this message the first time it was pending approval due to "suspicious header". Hence I an sending it once again. Sanjay -Original Message-From: Sanjay Singhvi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Monday, April 16, 2001 11:54 PMSubject: Website Comrades, Our party's (Communist Party of India (ML) Red Flag) website is just up. It can be found at www.cpimlredflag.com . Please inform me about your comments as I had a hand in designing it. Revolutionary regards, Sanjay Singhvi
[MLL][C_A_R_B] Lettre ouverte de Gaël ROBLIN au Garde des Sceaux
Lettre ouverte de Gaël Robln au garde des sceaux Je ne suis ni Tchétchène, ni Kurde, ni Tibétain... je suis Breton ! Je ne suis pas incarcéré depuis plus d'un an à Istanboul ou Téhéran mais à... Paris, centre du monde civilisé et capitale de la patrie des « droits de l'homme » ! Je suis suspecté d'être membre de l'Armée Révolutionnaire Bretonne. En presque un an l'instruction a mis en lumière le fait que... j'ai tapé un texte ! D'après le magistrat instructeur cela est passible de la réclusion criminelle à perpétuité ! Et ce bien que j'aie été arrêté sans armes, sans explosifs et que mon emploi du temps soit sans équivoque. Je ne suis mis en cause dans aucun attentat. Le juge des libertés et de la détention ne cache pas lui que mon maintien en prison est justifié par mon engagement politique car au milieu du fatras juridique invoqué il stipule noir sur blanc dans son ordonnance de rejet de demande de mise en liberté : « Attendu que ROBLIN qui conteste appartenir à l'ARB mais qui ne nie pas ses sympathies nationalistes et d'ailleurs appartenir au mouvement EMGANN... ». Oui c'est vrai je suis militant du mouvement de la gauche indépendantiste EMGANN qui est un mouvement public, j'en suis toujours porte parole et en plus j'ai de la sympathie pour l'ARB. J'ai d'ailleurs accepter de taper ce texte par motivation politique. En vous adressant celle lettre je ne veux pas m'abaisser à vous réclammer un traitement de faveur ou à m'attirer votre mansuétude, je veux simplement vous signaler que malgré vos dénis il y a des prisonniers politiques Bretons en captivité en France. L'arrêté du juge des libertés me concernant est on ne peut plus clair. Il vous faut donc prendre des dispostions nécessaires pour la mise en place d'un statut de prisonnier politique. Cela sous entend : - le regroupement et le rapatriement des prisonniers politiques Bretons en Bretagne - la libération immédiate des prisonniers malades - le droit pour nous de s'exprimer en langue bretonne lors de l'instruction et du procès. Ce dernier point mettrait d'ailleurs les justiciables britophones à égalité avec les locuteurs germanophones d'Alsace et de Moselle qui peuvent eux s'exprimer en Allemand devant les différentes juridictions de votre république. A moins bien sûr que vous ne considériez que les Britophones soient des sous-citoyens ? J'ai bien noté avec quelle malhonnêteté intellectuelle vous avez nié cet hiver à plusieurs reprises dans les media l'existence des prisonniers politiques Bretons. J'ai aussi pris note de vote mépris pour réfuter nos revendications à ce sujet alors que notre grève de la faim tournante était arrivée à plus de 120 jours et que les initiatives de soutien se multipliaient dans et hors des prisons de votre république bananière. Pendant ce temps là vos amis politiques tentaient d'émouvoir sur le sort de Maurice Papon ou sur les conditions de placement en détention d'un innocent aux mains pleines impliqué dans un trafic d'armes ayant coûté la vie à des centaines de milliers de personnes. Ce mépris hautain et ce manque de courage politique ne vous est d'ailleurs pas spécifique. C'est en effet le même mépris, le même double langage qui est opposé à toutes les revendications même les plus raisonnables en Bretagne depuis 30 ans ! Ce mépris porte en lui les germes de la résistance que vous prétendez museler. Vous allez rétorquer que je cautionne « la violence », « le terrorisme »... Je me dois de vous rappeler qu'une « association de malfaiteurs en relation avec un entreprise terroriste » est censé « vouloir troubler gravement l'ordre public par l'intimidation ou la terreur ». De l'aveu même du juge d'instruction qui m'extrait de ma cellule de temps à autre personne parmi les militants politiques incarcérés n'a souhaité la mort de qui que ce soit. Il a donc lui même du mal à voir en nous des « Terroristes voulant imposer leurs idées par la violence en bande organisée » De mon point de vue ce qui s'approche le plus de cette définition est justement la juridiction anti-terroriste et son bras armé la Division Nationale Anti Terroriste. Cette juridiction chaque jour un peu plus décriée pour ses excès sert surtout à imposer par l'intimidation et la terreur une certaine conception de la « paix républicaine française » à ceux et celles qui pourraient être tentés de la contester. J'en arrive donc à réclamer à défaut du statut de prisonnier politique la dissolution de cette tristement célèbre 14ème section comme cela avait été le cas de la défunte cour de sûreté de l'État. Vous comprendrez que malgré le fait que nous ayons des points communs (nous sommes originaires tous deux de Bretagne et tout comme vous je n'ai pas fait d'études de droit) je ne vous salue pas. Je vous prie simplement de croire en ma sincère détermination à combattre à visage découvert comme je l'ai toujours fait la justice coloniale de classe que vous incarnez. Gaël Rob
[MLL](no subject)
Comrade, When I sent this message twice before it was pending approval due to "suspicious header". Hence I an sending it once again. Sanjay -Original Message-From: Sanjay Singhvi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Monday, April 16, 2001 11:54 PMSubject: Website Comrades, Our party's (Communist Party of India (ML) Red Flag) website is just up. It can be found at www.cpimlredflag.com . Please inform me about your comments as I had a hand in designing it. Revolutionary regards, Sanjay Singhvi
Re: [MLL]Website
Sanjay comrade, I've checked out the Web site and it's great and informative about conditions in India. Fraternally Charles - Original Message - From: "Sanjay Singhvi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 2:24 AM Subject: [MLL]Website Comrades, Our party's (Communist Party of India (ML) Red Flag) website is just up. It can be found at www.cpimlredflag.com . Please inform me about your comments as I had a hand in designing it. Revolutionary regards, Sanjay Singhvi ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
RE: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism!
Comrade Brian, It is always "reasonable" to clarify what one means by her/his words, and concepts if this "reason" and "reasonableness" are not based on one's previous seeming uncritical "reasons". So, it is reasonable to sharpen the image of the international Zionism through metaphors and other aesthetic devices which are crucial in the ideological struggle against the world Imperialism, for example through "strong tentacle", "the tip of the iceberg", and etc. In addition, "the abuse" of some terms by some neo-Nazis and others cannot be a limiting principle in my choice of exact words and concepts in conceptualizing and understanding certain historical events. So, I do not subscribe to the "panic" principle of avoiding some "abused" words in the name of the infamous sensitivity of "liberals" and their social-democratic "communist" allies becuase this infamous sensitivity of "liberals" has almost always been used to cover the ugliness of our world. Javad --Original Message-- From: James Brian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 16, 2001 10:00:43 PM GMT Subject: RE: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism! Comrade Javad, I simply asked you to clarify what you meant by "international zionism." This is not an unreasonable request given the abuse this term gets put to. Even communists need to clarify their meaning. Broad generalisations depicting international zionism as "another strong tentacle of the parasitic Imperialism to maintain the rule of Capital," and the assertion that "this characterization is a tip of the iceberg of "the international Zionism," need to be clarified, no matter who says them. "Strong tentacles" with deep international roots (the 9/10 beneath the tip of the ice berg, whatever) - this is the kind of language conspiracy theorists use. If I am reading things into your intended meaning, it is because you make it far too easy to do so. Brian ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
Re: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism!
-Original Message- From: KloMcKinsey Date: 17 April, 2001 3:34 AM >Partija rada wrote: > >> -Original Message- >> From: KloMcKinsey >> Date: 16 April, 2001 1:50 PM >> >> >My reply, >> >Leaving aside his occasionally convoluted terminology Javad's >> arguments >> >are considerably more accurate in this matter than those of his critics. >> In >> >simple terms: Anti-Zionism, which Marxists support, does not equal >> >anti-Semitism, which Marxists oppose. All Zionists are not Jews and all >> Jews >> >are not Zionists by any means. The attempt to squelch opposition to >> Zionism by >> >labeling its opponents as anti-Semitic is a capitalist ruse that has been >> >practiced for years and is no more valid now than the first time its >> horrific >> >head emerged from the muck. Palestinians who are opposed to the Zionist >> >movement but not Judaism have been repeatedly and erroneously branded >> >anti-Semitic for propaganda purposes. Not without good reason did the >> United >> >Nations pass a resolution branding Zionism as racism. >> > >> >For the cause, >> > >> >Klo >> > >> Short, sharp, shock! Congratulations Klo. You hit the target better than we >> do. >> Milan >> > >Thank you Milan. Your kind comments are most appreciated. > >Incidentally, I think the moderators need to straighten out this posting >problem with MLL ASAP. It can not help but diminish the number of >participants and postings. Getting a rejected message saying SUSPICIOUS >HEADER makes me feel like someone thinks I am a spy or enemy agent. Needless >to say, I don't like it. The lackluster activity here has caused me to drift >to another list which is not as good but is quite active called > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Klo! I'm already on downwithcapitalism. Not so bad, not so good... It is interesting that everywhere I must explain again and again why we have such and such position on Milosevic and his Party. Eh... For Communism, Milan >By the way, for those who are interested, two months ago the Communist Party >USA started its own pre-convention discussion list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Looks like Yahoo is really popular these days. I joined both and am now >buried in emails. > >For the cause, > >Klo > >PS. I just got word that the CPUSA is limiting the topics that can be >discussed. ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
RE: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism!
--- Javad Eskandarpour <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Comrade Brian, > > It is always "reasonable" to clarify what one means > by her/his words, and > concepts if this "reason" and "reasonableness" are > not based on one's > previous seeming uncritical "reasons". Dah? > So, it is > reasonable to sharpen the > image of the international Zionism through metaphors > and other aesthetic > devices which are crucial in the ideological > struggle against the world > Imperialism, for example through "strong tentacle", > "the tip of the > iceberg", and etc. Using fuzzy, ambiguous expressions such as "strong tentacles" and "tip of the iceberg" are the opposite of sharpening. "International zionism" is also pretty nebulous, which was my initial complaint. > In addition, "the abuse" of some > terms by some neo-Nazis > and others cannot be a limiting principle in my > choice of exact words and > concepts in conceptualizing and understanding > certain historical events. Marxism has its own tradition of concepts and terminology for describing the world, we don't need to pick up the language that is most commonly associated with fascists. Put "international zionism" into a search engine and see what you come up with. I got David Duke's homepage, Ernst Zundel, The Intenational Third Positionists, and National Bolshevik. Not one Marxist website! Are the Marxists organisations of the world falling behind the game? Or have the liberal-zionist tentacles entwined them too? > So, I do not subscribe to the "panic" principle of > avoiding some "abused" > words in the name of the infamous sensitivity of > "liberals" and their > social-democratic "communist" allies becuase this > infamous sensitivity of > "liberals" has almost always been used to cover the > ugliness of our world. > Javad You're accusing me of being a liberal, politically correct, etc. A convenient ruse for not having to deal with the issue, just as liberals accuse anti-zionists of anti-semitism so as not to deal with the issue. Do you have any information on the imperialist structure of zionism? I am genuinely interested in the topic. Brian __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
RE: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism!
Comrade Brian, You do not have to be paranoid by the neo-Nazi's use of some words because, as you mentioned, we have our "own tradition of concepts and terminology for describing the world". So, when you are busy using search engines, do not rely on your "dah" logic and abandon the "abused" words and concepts to their neo-Nazi fate, but instead use our "own tradition of concepts and terminology for describing the world" to liberate these "abused" ones. In addition, you seem to be very insistent on assuming the supposed "non"-"imperialist structure of zionism" when you ask the following question:"Do you have any information on the imperialist structure of zionism?" So, could you use your "dah" logic and provide us with your "non"-"imperialist structure of zionism", and also "sharpen" our understanding of "the internationl Zionism (which is nebulous to you) through your not-"fuzzy" and unambiguous expressions! Javad --Original Message-- From: James Brian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 17, 2001 9:39:15 PM GMT Subject: RE: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism! --- Javad Eskandarpour <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Comrade Brian, > > It is always "reasonable" to clarify what one means > by her/his words, and > concepts if this "reason" and "reasonableness" are > not based on one's > previous seeming uncritical "reasons". Dah? > So, it is > reasonable to sharpen the > image of the international Zionism through metaphors > and other aesthetic > devices which are crucial in the ideological > struggle against the world > Imperialism, for example through "strong tentacle", > "the tip of the > iceberg", and etc. Using fuzzy, ambiguous expressions such as "strong tentacles" and "tip of the iceberg" are the opposite of sharpening. "International zionism" is also pretty nebulous, which was my initial complaint. > In addition, "the abuse" of some > terms by some neo-Nazis > and others cannot be a limiting principle in my > choice of exact words and > concepts in conceptualizing and understanding > certain historical events. Marxism has its own tradition of concepts and terminology for describing the world, we don't need to pick up the language that is most commonly associated with fascists. Put "international zionism" into a search engine and see what you come up with. I got David Duke's homepage, Ernst Zundel, The Intenational Third Positionists, and National Bolshevik. Not one Marxist website! Are the Marxists organisations of the world falling behind the game? Or have the liberal-zionist tentacles entwined them too? > So, I do not subscribe to the "panic" principle of > avoiding some "abused" > words in the name of the infamous sensitivity of > "liberals" and their > social-democratic "communist" allies becuase this > infamous sensitivity of > "liberals" has almost always been used to cover the > ugliness of our world. > Javad You're accusing me of being a liberal, politically correct, etc. A convenient ruse for not having to deal with the issue, just as liberals accuse anti-zionists of anti-semitism so as not to deal with the issue. Do you have any information on the imperialist structure of zionism? I am genuinely interested in the topic. Brian __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
Re: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism! (to Brian)
--- Partija rada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Comrade Brian! > > Sorry, but then I missed the point which did you > raised. I was thinking on > powers which destroyed SSSR, and economically > destroyed Russia. > > You have a right. What is the International Zionism > in fact? > > Milan That is precisely the question: What is "international zionism?" Sounds like your party leader got his information on zionists destroying Russia from the Russian Communist Party, CPRF, a few years ago. Here's an article from a communist publication that exposes the antisemitism posing behind anti-zionism in this particular case. [snip] Lest anyone think that Zyuganov spoke this way out of haste, two months later he was continuing this chauvinist litany. After going through the obligatory rhetoric against "ill-considered statements about Jews," Zyuganov announced the fantastic discovery that "the Zionization of Russian state power has been one of the reasons behind the current catastrophic state of the country, its mass impoverishment, and the extinction of its population." (Zyuganov's statement of December 24, 1998 entitled "On the National Pride of Patriots.") He argued that its people "rightly ask how it can be that key positions in a number of economic sectors were seized predominantly by representatives of one ethnic group in the course of privatization." For Zyuganov, the problem is the wrong ethnic group allegedly rules, not that capitalist exploitation is being carried out by a handful of exploiters from different backgrounds. So much for his claims to distinguish between Zionism and people of Jewish ancestry. Only a lackey of capital could single out "zionism" as the main feature of the Russian ruling class and the explanation for the suffering in Russia. Full article at: http://www.flash.net/~comvoice/20cRussia.html Brian __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
[MLL]zionism
J. V. Stalin MARXISM and the NATIONAL QUESTION >From J. V. Stalin, Works, Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow, 1954, http://www.marx2mao.org/Stalin/MNQ12.html " And the mounting wave of militant nationalism above and the series of repressive measures taken by the "powers that be " in vengeance on the border regions for their "love of freedom," evoked an answering wave of nationalism below, which at times took the form of crude chauvinis. The spread of zionism[131] among the Jews, the increase of chauvinism in Poland, Pan-Islamism among the Tatars, the spread of nationalism among the Armenians, Georgians and Ukrainians, the general swing of the philistine towards anti-Semitism -- all these are generally known fact. The wave of nationalism swept onwards with increasing force, threatening to engulf the mass of the worker.." [131] Zionism -- a reactionary nationalist trend of the Jewish bourgeoisie, which had followers among the intellectuals and the more backward sections of the Jewish workers. The Zionists endeavoured to isolate the Jewish working-class masses from the general struggle of the proletariat. Today the Zionist organisations are the agents of the American imperialists in their machinations directed against the U.S.S.R. and the People's Democracies and the revolutionary movement in capitalist and colonial countries.[p.301] --- Elimination of the exploitation of man by man! Yours in solidarity Per Rasmussen Denmark "One has to have a great dose of humanity, a great dose of the feeling of justice and of truth not to fall into extreme dogmatism, into a cold scholasticism, into isolation from the masses. Every day one has to struggle that this love to a living humanity transform itself into concrete acts, in acts that serve as examples, as motivation." Ernesto Che Guevara "The Marxist-Leninist doctrine on class struggle and the dictatorship of the proletariat affirms the role of violence in revolution, makes a distinction between unjust, counter-revolutionary violence and just, revolutionary violence, between the violence of the exploiting classes, and that of the masses." General Vo Nguyen Giap The Political and Military Line of Our Party, Selected Writings Let us continue the path of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin and Mao! Long live Marxism-Leninism Mao Tsetung Thought! IMPERIALISM AND ALL REACTIONARIES ARE PAPER TIGERS! Familien Rasmussen http://home0.inet.tele.dk/pera/ Sørens hjemmeside http://w1.1559.telia.com/~u155900387/ Cuba SI! http://w1.1559.telia.com/~u155900388/ http://members.tripod.com/Per_Rasmussen/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/1690 Subscribe Cuba SI mail-list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ernesto Che Guevara http://w1.1559.telia.com/~u155900388/ernesto.htm Che Guevara Discussion List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Viden er Magt! - Magten til folket! http://w1.1559.telia.com/~u155900373/ Grundstudier i Marxismen-Leninismen Mao Tsetung Tænkning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe Power to the People mail-list [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
RE: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism!
If anyone is being paranoid it is you, comrade. I ask for some material on this "international zionism" you casually refer to, and all you can do is accuse me of accusing you of antisemitism, which I tried to make clear from the start I was not doing. Now you're taking my request for information on the imperialist structure of zionism as a challenge of proof, thus assuming that I'm assuming there is no such thing. I believe there is such a thing, but that defining it could be a problem. So far you have offered nothing in the way of documentation or an outline of your position in clear terms, so I have to do my own research on the net, finding the stuff you don't want to be associated with. Give us the goods, or shut up about it. Brian --- Javad Eskandarpour <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Comrade Brian, > > You do not have to be paranoid by the neo-Nazi's use > of some words because, > as you mentioned, we have our "own tradition of > concepts and terminology for > describing the world". So, when you are busy using > search engines, do not > rely on your "dah" logic and abandon the "abused" > words and concepts to > their neo-Nazi fate, but instead use our "own > tradition of concepts and > terminology for describing the world" to liberate > these "abused" ones. > In addition, you seem to be very insistent on > assuming the supposed > "non"-"imperialist structure of zionism" when you > ask the following > question:"Do you have any information on the > imperialist structure of > zionism?" So, could you use your "dah" logic and > provide us with your > "non"-"imperialist structure of zionism", and also > "sharpen" our > understanding of "the internationl Zionism (which is > nebulous to you) > through your not-"fuzzy" and unambiguous > expressions! > Javad > > > --Original Message-- > From: James Brian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: April 17, 2001 9:39:15 PM GMT > Subject: RE: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism! > > > > --- Javad Eskandarpour <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Comrade Brian, > > > > It is always "reasonable" to clarify what one > means > > by her/his words, and > > concepts if this "reason" and "reasonableness" are > > not based on one's > > previous seeming uncritical "reasons". > > Dah? > > > So, it is > > reasonable to sharpen the > > image of the international Zionism through > metaphors > > and other aesthetic > > devices which are crucial in the ideological > > struggle against the world > > Imperialism, for example through "strong > tentacle", > > "the tip of the > > iceberg", and etc. > > Using fuzzy, ambiguous expressions such as "strong > tentacles" and "tip of the iceberg" are the opposite > of sharpening. "International zionism" is also > pretty > nebulous, which was my initial complaint. > > > In addition, "the abuse" of some > > terms by some neo-Nazis > > and others cannot be a limiting principle in my > > choice of exact words and > > concepts in conceptualizing and understanding > > certain historical events. > > Marxism has its own tradition of concepts and > terminology for describing the world, we don't need > to > pick up the language that is most commonly > associated > with fascists. Put "international zionism" into a > search engine and see what you come up with. I got > David Duke's homepage, Ernst Zundel, The > Intenational > Third Positionists, and National Bolshevik. Not one > Marxist website! Are the Marxists organisations of > the > world falling behind the game? Or have the > liberal-zionist tentacles entwined them too? > > > So, I do not subscribe to the "panic" principle of > > avoiding some "abused" > > words in the name of the infamous sensitivity of > > "liberals" and their > > social-democratic "communist" allies becuase this > > infamous sensitivity of > > "liberals" has almost always been used to cover > the > > ugliness of our world. > > Javad > > You're accusing me of being a liberal, politically > correct, etc. A convenient ruse for not having to > deal > with the issue, just as liberals accuse > anti-zionists > of anti-semitism so as not to deal with the issue. > > Do you have any information on the imperialist > structure of zionism? I am genuinely interested in > the > topic. > > Brian > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > ___ > Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list > > > > > > ___ > Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at gre
Re: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism!
Comrades, I've read an Arab pamphlet equating Zionism to a form of fascism and to imperialism, which is true, especially in relation to Israel's expansionist aims in the Middle-East. On the other hand, I've found the term "International Zionism" used by neo-nazis and assorted anti-semites, including by anti-semetic Muslims and bourgeois nationalists who want to use it to further their political ends. Thus I would say that the term "International Zionism" is a fascist and racist term (as the points mentioned by Brian James below confirm) and it should not be used by communists and progressives, just as we would not use the word "nigger." Fraternally Charles - Original Message - From: "James Brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:43 AM Subject: Re: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism! (to Brian) > --- Partija rada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Dear Comrade Brian! > > > > Sorry, but then I missed the point which did you > > raised. I was thinking on > > powers which destroyed SSSR, and economically > > destroyed Russia. > > > > You have a right. What is the International Zionism > > in fact? > > > > Milan > > That is precisely the question: What is "international > zionism?" > > Sounds like your party leader got his information on > zionists destroying Russia from the Russian Communist > Party, CPRF, a few years ago. Here's an article from a > communist publication that exposes the antisemitism > posing behind anti-zionism in this particular case. > > [snip] > > Lest anyone think that Zyuganov spoke this way out of > haste, two months later he was continuing this > chauvinist litany. After going through the obligatory > rhetoric against "ill-considered statements about > Jews," Zyuganov announced the fantastic discovery that > > > "the Zionization of Russian state power has been one > of the reasons behind the current catastrophic state > of the > country, its mass impoverishment, and the extinction > of its population." (Zyuganov's statement of December > 24, 1998 entitled "On the National Pride of > Patriots.") He argued that its people "rightly ask how > it can be that key positions in a number of economic > sectors were seized predominantly by representatives > of one ethnic > group in the course of privatization." > > For Zyuganov, the problem is the wrong ethnic group > allegedly rules, not that capitalist exploitation is > being carried out by a handful of exploiters from > different backgrounds. So much for his claims to > distinguish between Zionism and people of Jewish > ancestry. Only a lackey of capital could single out > "zionism" as the main feature of the Russian ruling > class and the explanation for the suffering in Russia. > > > Full article at: > > http://www.flash.net/~comvoice/20cRussia.html > > Brian > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > ___ > Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list > ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
RE: [MLL]zionism
Comrade Rasmussen, This passage by Stalin is a good one in connection to the false ideas of the "liberals" and their social-democratic allies as to "Zionism". Javad --Original Message-- From: "Per Rasmussen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Marxist-Leninist-List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: April 17, 2001 10:57:39 PM GMT Subject: [MLL]zionism J. V. Stalin MARXISM and the NATIONAL QUESTION >From J. V. Stalin, Works, Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow, 1954, ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
RE: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism!
Comrade Brian, As it is clear now, not only you are paranoid but also a rude person with your "abusive" language--"Give us the goods, or shut up about it." In connection to "the goods", we could not proceed further because you find everthing to your dislike or not according to your "dah"-logic as "ambiguous", "fuzzy", etc. So, if this is the case, it is "reasonable" that you provide us with something not-"fuzzy" and unambiguous in relation to those stumbling blocks to proceed further; instead you like to make some not-"fuzzy" complaints about some certain words that I use in the course of my discussion. I have mentioned this before, but you have not paid attention to it: If you can find anything "fuzzy", "ambiguous" or "not sufficiently done", then this implies that you have found it so in reference to your own not-"fuzzy", unambiguous, and sufficiently done ideas; otherwise it would imply that your complaints are "mere" complaints for the sake of another time-wasting discussion because recognizing the ambiguity of some words without your (relatively more)unambigous understaning of them would be miraculous. But I hope, if you use our "own tradition of concepts and terminology for describing the world", that you would not prefer the tradition of "mere" complaints, but proceed actively in the discussion instead of asking for "the goods" that you might call "fuzzy" and "loaded" and "troublesome" without your own critical ideas. Javad --Original Message-- From: James Brian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 18, 2001 12:53:13 AM GMT Subject: RE: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism! If anyone is being paranoid it is you, comrade. I ask for some material on this "international zionism" you casually refer to, and all you can do is accuse me of accusing you of antisemitism, which I tried to make clear from the start I was not doing. Now you're taking my request for information on the imperialist structure of zionism as a challenge of proof, thus assuming that I'm assuming there is no such thing. I believe there is such a thing, but that defining it could be a problem. So far you have offered nothing in the way of documentation or an outline of your position in clear terms, so I have to do my own research on the net, finding the stuff you don't want to be associated with. Give us the goods, or shut up about it. Brian ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
Re: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism!
Comrade Moreira, As you have mentioned correctly, Zionism is a form of Fascism. And the phrase "the international Zionism" might be used by neo-Nazis and others in relation to their own interests, but the phrase by itself with its specific conceptual content stands for the specific nature of this vicious creature. In other words, if one says that the communist movement is an international movement, one cannot simply ignore this "international" aspect of the communist movements for some illogical reasons. And if Zionism has its "international" dimension, then one cannot ignore the word "international" in defining Zionism; otherwise, one has to resort to some incorrect terminology or fallacious one, for example Zionism is a "Jewish" nationalism of a local interest. If one does not like the explanation of the international Zionism given by the neo-Nazis and others, one must expose the fallacious content of their explanation instead of declaring some words as "Fascist and racist". By the way, I do not think the use of the word "nigger" is "analogous" to the phrase "the international Zionism" for the simple reason that the word "nigger" is used and is being used in "the spirit of hate" by some racist white Americans and others, which was not introduced to define a real human being but to define their own deformed psychological attitude, which is the reflection of the existent exploitative social relations, towards the black Americans to demoralize the black Amreicans in their struggle against the slavery and capitalism. But As it is well-known, "Zionism" is a term to denote a certain social movement, which is a designation by the leaders of "Zionism", and the phrase "the international" denotes the existence of its "international" existence from its inception till right now; thus, we have "the international Zionism" denoting a specific historical movement independent of "the spirit of hate" by the Neo-Nazis and others. And if the neo-Nazis and others use the phrase "the international Zionism" in "the spirit" of their own specfic hate and for their own interests, still this does not mean that "the international Zionism" is not "Zionism" and is not "international" in the real world. Your analogy would work if the criterion of your judgment is the following: any two different words are analogous to each other in relation to their associated concepts and corresponding objective reality if they are used by the same type of people in the spirit of something. I think you would not prefer to have this kind of criterion for some obvious reasons. Javad --Original Message-- From: "Charles F. Moreira" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 18, 2001 1:52:14 AM GMT Subject: Re: [MLL]Zionism is Fascism! Comrades, I've read an Arab pamphlet equating Zionism to a form of fascism and to imperialism, which is true, especially in relation to Israel's expansionist aims in the Middle-East. On the other hand, I've found the term "International Zionism" used by neo-nazis and assorted anti-semites, including by anti-semetic Muslims and bourgeois nationalists who want to use it to further their political ends. Thus I would say that the term "International Zionism" is a fascist and racist term (as the points mentioned by Brian James below confirm) and it should not be used by communists and progressives, just as we would not use the word "nigger." Fraternally Charles ___ Marxist-Leninist-List mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/marxist-leninist-list
