Re: Unity redefines F10
* Yury V. Zaytsev y...@shurup.com [110430 11:35]: On Sat, 2011-04-30 at 08:03 -0800, Tim Johnson wrote: BTW: I'm with T. Kilgore and others that MC could provide more remapping features, but there might be some answers on the ubuntu forums. Or it might be worthwhile to make a complaint or a bug report about the unity feature. Just read this thread again for a solution that has been referenced more than once (make Unity to release the binding via the Compiz settings plug-in). Even more so, mc does provide all remapping facilities that you seem to not to be aware of. You're right, actually I had forgotten. Furthermore, one can do `man mc' and do a search on 'keymap' for details. cheers -- Tim tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com http://www.akwebsoft.com ___ mc mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc
Re: Unity redefines F10
[Theodore Kilgore, 2011-04-30] One of the reasons the don't bother about keeping the mc keys is that they do not put mc in the distro. Why I have no idea as it is the first thing I have to add. Well, AFAIR the same could be said about several distros, starting with Debian (which might account for mc being missing in the default Ubuntu install) and, I think, Red Hat as well. Why? I have no idea, either. yeah, I don't understand why they all do not include mc even in the = 200 MiB installations. The system is not usable without mc after all. They also should include my favourite $FOO application! What? Other 10 million users didn't even hear about $FOO? Well, that's their problem. I want my $FOO in default installation because I'm too lazy to prepare preseed file, put it somewhere on the web and later start the installer with url=http://mysever/debian_installer_preseed; as it requires even more work than apt-get install mc after the installation. Distro bastards! -- Piotr Ożarowski Debian GNU/Linux Developer www.ozarowski.pl www.griffith.cc www.debian.org GPG Fingerprint: 1D2F A898 58DA AF62 1786 2DF7 AEF6 F1A2 A745 7645 ___ mc mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc
Re: Unity redefines F10
On Sat, 2011-04-30 at 09:27 +0200, Piotr Ozarowski wrote: yeah, I don't understand why they all do not include mc even in the = 200 MiB installations. The system is not usable without mc after all. Hi Piotr! Actually, do you know what are the criteria in place for making the selection? The popcon data or what? I've seen people filling a whishlist bug against Ubuntu, but given that these distro bastards are consistently making the system less usable by keyboard people to the benefit of mouse draggers (one recent achievement was a brilliant change in the /etc/inputrc, which hasn't been modified for years!), I think there is little chance it will ever get there... I'm pretty sure the pointing devices wiseguys own the joints all over the place, and they might even be already on my track now that I am denouncing this publicly... g -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev ___ mc mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc
Re: Unity redefines F10
* Jabba Laci jabba.l...@gmail.com [110429 00:06]: Hi, I installed the new Ubuntu (11.04) today and I noticed that Unity redefines F10, thus quitting from mc is not that easy anymore. Now I'm using ESC + 0, but F10 would be better. Do you know how to get back F10 in Unity? I haven't found it yet. I am running Ubuntu netbook remix (10.10) on my Asus netbook. After I installed it, I could not successfully remap any of the keys. Shortly after that, I found that I had the alternative of logging in with the gnome desktop and was happy to leave unity behind. Have you tried booting into gnome, going to preferences and setting up keymapping there, then rebooting to unity and see what has happened? BTW: I'm with T. Kilgore and others that MC could provide more remapping features, but there might be some answers on the ubuntu forums. Or it might be worthwhile to make a complaint or a bug report about the unity feature. HTW -- Tim tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com http://www.akwebsoft.com ___ mc mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc
Re: Unity redefines F10
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011, Yury V. Zaytsev wrote: On Sat, 2011-04-30 at 09:27 +0200, Piotr Ozarowski wrote: yeah, I don't understand why they all do not include mc even in the = 200 MiB installations. The system is not usable without mc after all. Hi Piotr! Actually, do you know what are the criteria in place for making the selection? The popcon data or what? I've seen people filling a whishlist bug against Ubuntu, but given that these distro bastards are consistently making the system less usable by keyboard people to the benefit of mouse draggers (one recent achievement was a brilliant change in the /etc/inputrc, which hasn't been modified for years!), I think there is little chance it will ever get there... I'm pretty sure the pointing devices wiseguys own the joints all over the place, and they might even be already on my track now that I am denouncing this publicly... g Yury, First: Not all the distros are the same about things like this. Tried Slackware lately, which is still going strong after all these years? Second: There really are problems to solve as far as keymappings are concerned. To me, it seems that the big issue is the switch over to Unicode. As one consequence of this, some of the MC keymappings are really messed up in the X environment unless one takes some kind of special action. Most particularly, the ones involving Alt- combinations. I wonder if there are any long-range plans to deal with that. Third: The issue of other keyboards besides American or English is a serious one. The message about the Hungarian keyboard strikes rather close to home. My wife is Hungarian. She decided years ago to adjust to the US keyboard, on the grounds that not to do so would have made things even worse. But it took her a while at the beginning. I do not know if you know that the y and z key locations are opposite to what is done in English? This dates back to the days of the bread-powered typewriter. As to your complaints about mouse draggers I am not sure I would have indulged in your colorful language, at least not in print. But unfortunately, the mouse draggers as you refer to them seem to act in total ignorance of the traditional strengths of Linux and its predecessor, Unix. In this apparent ignorance, they have tended to do rather too many things which are in-one's-face. The following describes one of the consequences of this wilful ignorance: An application program should be willing to coexist with the directory hierarchy which exists on a user's machine instead of telling the user where things are supposed to be kept. If one goes to a certain directory where one keeps files of type X and starts application X_processor, then X_processor ought to look for its fodder in $PWD, as the first default. Some applications with graphical content are good about this. But some otherwise very nice applications (office suites, for example, and some image viewing programs) fail miserably, and quite consciously so. The designers have decided so (and have sometimes told me so when I submitted bug reports) based upon the design philosopy of the project. What that boils down to is that the design philosopy of their project presumes to tell me how I am supposed to organize the files and applications on _my_ computer instead of letting me make my own decisions about that. I don't think that is funny. The similar behavior of Windows 95 was one of my main motivations to seek out Linux, way back in 1996. Alas, all of the above is so unnecessary. All that would be needed would be for a few of the mouse draggers actually to learn something about the history and origins of the operating system and environment which they claim to be improving, and then everyone could be much happier. Theodore Kilgore ___ mc mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc
Unity redefines F10
Hi, I installed the new Ubuntu (11.04) today and I noticed that Unity redefines F10, thus quitting from mc is not that easy anymore. Now I'm using ESC + 0, but F10 would be better. Do you know how to get back F10 in Unity? I haven't found it yet. Thanks, Laszlo ___ mc mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc
Re: Unity redefines F10
Hi! On Fri, 2011-04-29 at 03:52 -0400, Jabba Laci wrote: Do you know how to get back F10 in Unity? I haven't found it yet. Yes, that's a PITA, affect yourself with this bug to increase the heat: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/750700 -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev ___ mc mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc
Re: Unity redefines F10
Hi, I found it and it seems to work. * install CompizConfig Settings Manager and start it * filter unity and start Ubuntu Unity Plugin * at the bottom you will see Key to open the first panel menu. Edit it and untick enabled, i.e. disable it. Now I can quit from mc with F10 and my F10 binding in vim is also back. Laszlo On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 07:17, Yury V. Zaytsev y...@shurup.com wrote: Hi! On Fri, 2011-04-29 at 03:52 -0400, Jabba Laci wrote: Do you know how to get back F10 in Unity? I haven't found it yet. Yes, that's a PITA, affect yourself with this bug to increase the heat: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/750700 -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev ___ mc mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc
Re: Unity redefines F10
On Fri, 29 Apr 2011, Yury V. Zaytsev wrote: Hi! On Fri, 2011-04-29 at 03:52 -0400, Jabba Laci wrote: Do you know how to get back F10 in Unity? I haven't found it yet. Yes, that's a PITA, affect yourself with this bug to increase the heat: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/750700 -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev Hi, While I fully agree that they should not do that, let me mention that I faced the same problem a couple of years ago when I installed MC on a Mac OS-10 system. The Mac already has F10 mapped to something like minimize window or such. Also, for that matter, F9 already has a specific meaning. In such situations it is possible to do some kind of re-mapping. Try to figure out which of Cntl-F10, Alt-F10, Shift-F10 or whatever do not already have a designated meaning, and re-map the exit function to one of those. How I did that at the moment escapes me, but it was not that difficult, actually. This is certainly not an ideal solution, but it can alleviate an annoyance, at least to some extent. Also, while one could hardly expect OS-10 to accommodate the key conventions of MC, I do emphatically agree that a Linux distribution really ought to. MC has a long and widespread usage pattern on Linux, and distros ought simply to understand that there are going to be lots of people who continue to want to use it no matter what kind of fancy new desktop designs that they want to introduce. Hoping that the above suggestions might help a little bit, Theodore Kilgore ___ mc mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc
Re: Unity redefines F10
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011, William Kimber wrote: On Saturday 30 April 2011 04:32:42 Theodore Kilgore wrote: On Fri, 29 Apr 2011, Yury V. Zaytsev wrote: Hi! On Fri, 2011-04-29 at 03:52 -0400, Jabba Laci wrote: Do you know how to get back F10 in Unity? I haven't found it yet. Yes, that's a PITA, affect yourself with this bug to increase the heat: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/750700 -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev Hi, While I fully agree that they should not do that, let me mention that I faced the same problem a couple of years ago when I installed MC on a Mac OS-10 system. The Mac already has F10 mapped to something like minimize window or such. Also, for that matter, F9 already has a specific meaning. In such situations it is possible to do some kind of re-mapping. Try to figure out which of Cntl-F10, Alt-F10, Shift-F10 or whatever do not already have a designated meaning, and re-map the exit function to one of those. How I did that at the moment escapes me, but it was not that difficult, actually. This is certainly not an ideal solution, but it can alleviate an annoyance, at least to some extent. Also, while one could hardly expect OS-10 to accommodate the key conventions of MC, I do emphatically agree that a Linux distribution really ought to. MC has a long and widespread usage pattern on Linux, and distros ought simply to understand that there are going to be lots of people who continue to want to use it no matter what kind of fancy new desktop designs that they want to introduce. One of the reasons the don't bother about keeping the mc keys is that they do not put mc in the distro. Why I have no idea as it is the first thing I have to add. Well, AFAIR the same could be said about several distros, starting with Debian (which might account for mc being missing in the default Ubuntu install) and, I think, Red Hat as well. Why? I have no idea, either. But if you do get into a jam about this on some new system and cannot otherwise get out, then as I rememember it is is indeed possible to re-map the F10 key's functionality to something else which is close enough to avoid acute discomfort. I forget now exactly how I did it, though. I think it had something to do with MC setup functions but at this point I cannot be sure. As my students in calculus courses say about things like basic trigonometry, Sir, it has been a long time since I studied that. Theodore Kilgore ___ mc mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc
