Re: MC/ncurses on cygwin: Borders turn into chinese characters and layout screws up
On Nov 24 18:19, Slava Zanko wrote: P.S. guys from cygwin devel-team: mc-4.6.1 too old for supporting, mc-4.7.0-pre2 and newest don't compile on current cygwin (because cyrrent cygwin don't have ipv6 support :( ). Is you have any ideas about? Cygwin 1.7 with IPv6 support exists quite some time and the official release is due very soon now. See http://cygwin.com/#beta-test There's no reason anymore to build against Cygwin 1.5.25. Corinna -- Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to Cygwin Project Co-Leader cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Red Hat ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: MC/ncurses on cygwin: Borders turn into chinese characters and layout screws up
Charles, 1. If you could see the screenshot you wouldn't suppose I was actually using this software. I reported that bug for the sake of your project, not because I'm hoping for a solution. I have several mc clones on both my windows and linux boxes. I was actually looking for a mc style plugin for vim, and tripped over this by accident. I wouldn't even install any fix if you made me one, because I let cygwin decide which versions of everything are installed. I honestly don't care whether you fix it or not. I sacrificed my time to report it for purely magnanimous reasons. 2. Does anybody really believe that the open source economy runs on people wanting to feel that warm, fuzzy glow of helping somebody else? Rubbish. I contribute to open source projects myself because I have to fix or implement things that my employer wants, so I contribute the changes so the problem doesn't bounce back at me. I do get paid for it, and my employer doesn't get the free lunch he expected. Intel, IBM, Google, etc all put money in, not least as a way of bringing down Microsoft. Linux distros make money by selling consultancy, or white labeling into netbooks, etc. A lot of the funding comes through academic channels. This is an economy just like any other. If cygwin really doesn't have any funding, that would explain why it still ships such old versions of things like mc. Maybe you should put up some adverts so you can pay somebody to maintain it without your wife and kids missing you. 3. Even if you really think working on open source stuff makes you some kind of Mother Theresa, that doesn't mean I want to be her as well. I've tipped off the maintainers, and that's about as much time as I have for this. Last time I reported a bug like this I got told to post it to a different list, and then that list told me to repost it somewhere else. This was all within a single project - I think it was android. Why is that my job? I wanted to preempt that this time. I suppose you think android is a warm-fuzzy-glow project as well, right? 4. You can all choose to ignore the bug because you don't like how I reported it, but that really would be childish. You'd still have the bug. For reasons best known to yourselves, you do care about the quality of the product, otherwise, you shouldn't be calling yourself the maintainers. This looks like an important one because it probably affects anything built on curses. Sulk if you want to, but don't call that maintenance. 5. I did trawl through the bug reporting page I quoted, in spite of its patronising tone. You must admit, it is rather patronising, and it stinks of your frustration at people not reporting bugs in the way you'd like them to. Seems like there are a lot of people like me around. Maybe there's a reason for that. I missed the bit about cygcheck because all that page did was call me stupid before sending me on the runaround trying to find out which list I was supposed to use. Contrary to Christopher's action-oriented image of me, I do generally have patience with long documents, but I don't enjoy being lectured to about helpful communications by a page that itself is most unhelpfully written. If you guys weren't so busy polishing your halos you might take my suggestion of writing a little html form and searching for dupes automatically. That page also reeks of the attitude repeated all over this thread that your bugs are the users' problems. That's why I expected a repeat of the android story. I was also expecting you all to point your fingers at each other, which has happened before. I don't think it's my duty to chair that kind of kindergarten, so I told you up front to leave me out of it. I still feel that way in spite of your trying to turn this bug into my problem and simultaneously telling me how big hearted you are and that you're going to punish me by not fixing your own bug. I'm afraid you can't spite my face by cutting off your own nose though. 6. I did actually give you all the information you need and I don't care why your mail server spat it back. Which version of cygwin? Any that ships mc 4.6.1. Seeing as Yuri says that's ancient, I guess that would be pretty much any version of cygwin. I told you how to reproduce it: just install Chinese fonts and type mc. If that doesn't work and you need more help from me, I'll try to find the time, but that would be me doing you a favour and not vice versa. Adrian. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: MC/ncurses on cygwin: Borders turn into chinese characters and layout screws up
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Adrian May wrote: 1. If you ... 2. Does anybody ... 3. Even if ... 4. You can ... 5. I did ... 6. I did ... Too much words for my mind. My vocabulary of English ended in the middle of the first paragraph. Man, you really offended at the opensource community - that's all what I understand. What specific suggestions? But, please, not need to write a poem by Shakespeare - briefly and clearly, please. If you want to help - good. Just help. If you only want to talk - please, find place for this (like /.) and feel free to start speech. You wrote a bugreport - cool, you have already helped (and thanks to you). But what you expect now? Everyone started running around your bugreport? Nope. Bugreport as a child: to give birth easily, it is difficult to educate (easy to write bug reports, more difficult to accompany). If you have a different opinion - huge thanks for bugreport and good bye :) P.S. guys from cygwin devel-team: mc-4.6.1 too old for supporting, mc-4.7.0-pre2 and newest don't compile on current cygwin (because cyrrent cygwin don't have ipv6 support :( ). Is you have any ideas about? WBR, Slavaz. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFLDAeHb3oGR6aVLpoRAnBoAJ0e0BtlsuB+uD3+7JbllcKcJ/WQ4wCeOfv3 2o9B/uLHO9aIWVVd4vo9z/4= =FYJQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: MC/ncurses on cygwin: Borders turn into chinese characters and layout screws up
On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 17:59 +0800, Adrian May wrote: 6. I did actually give you all the information you need and I don't care why your mail server spat it back. Which version of cygwin? If you want US to look into this, you need at least to supply the versions of libraries mc is linked against (whether it uses slang / ncurses and which version of it) and test whether this is reproducible on latest master, linked against these libraries and the latest master linked against the latest versions of these libraries. Then, if it's indeed a problem with mc, we'll have to have someone to install cygwin or get an access to a machine with such a setup and have a look into this. So far I can't think of anyone using Windows for starters... Concerning all the rest, you've got it the wrong way all along. Developers are mostly interested in the software that works for them and their employers / customers, which MIGHT (or might not) have a nice side effect of it working for you as well. If it's not the case, then nobody cares about you unless you contribute your time (I mean reporting the bug as a rude accusation is not enough) or money to fix the issue ([*], see problem #7). We are doing a great favor to even listen to you, not the other way around. If you fail to understand this, please keep posting to the curl cygwin list, as apparently they appreciate it, but exclude mc-devel from your further mailings. Thanks for your time. [*] http://vtbsd.net/notwindows.html -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: MC/ncurses on cygwin: Borders turn into chinese characters and layout screws up
24.11.2009 18:35, Corinna Vinschen wrote: Cygwin 1.7 with IPv6 support exists quite some time and the official release is due very soon now. See http://cygwin.com/#beta-test There's no reason anymore to build against Cygwin 1.5.25. Ok, thanks for info. I'll try to compile mc with new version of cygwin. WBR, Slavaz. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: MC/ncurses on cygwin: Borders turn into chinese characters and layout screws up
Adrian May wrote: Please don't involve me in your triage process or ask me to send it somewhere else. I've had that several times before and I think it's rubbish to expect a user to navigate a project's internal processes just because you expect them to feel good about contributing to an open source project. It's not my product or my problem. You've seen the proof, so figure it out for yourselves. Just a quickie for cygwin: if you insist on patronising your customers about their bug reporting skills (http://cygwin.com/problems.html) then may I suggest that you show some smartness yourselves by just telling us which bloody mailing list to use right there in the bug reporting page instead of making us hunt through the rest of the site. Better still, provide a form and have it search the archives itself. Go to hell, you rude jerk. This is a VOLUNTEER project. You are asking me -- as cygwin/ncurses maintainer -- or someone else, as cygwin/mc maintainer -- to take time away our family or loved ones, or away from doing some other enjoyable activity, and instead fix a problem FOR YOU, a stranger I do not know. I don't see this problem. You do. So, it doesn't really affect my life -- you're asking me for a favor. To increase the likelihood of me sacrificing my precious and limited free time to help you, some random schmoe on the internet, for no reward other than the warm fuzzy of helping a stranger -- you should make it as easy as possible to help you, and reduce MY cost (in time away from the more enjoyable things in life) so that I'm more likely to pay it, and help you. Or...you can rudely insult me. Your choice -- but guess which one is more likely to get your problem fixed (remember, I don't see it, so it doesn't bug me at all). -- Chuck ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: MC/ncurses on cygwin: Borders turn into chinese characters and layout screws up
Hi! Actually it's a pretty old version of mc which is no longer supported, but if it's reproducible on latest master, then we might want to have a look at it. Mind you, however, that no one is using cygwin over here, so you'll have to have quite a bit of involvement in the process for us to fix it. P.S. I imagine you're pretty much pissed off, but even having this considered, your social skills do not impress and you formulated your request in a most stupid / unhelpful way possible. P.P.S. Now I almost hear you swearing that you gonna stop using mc / cygwin... Who the heck cares about that?.. :-) -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
