Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 08:14:44PM -0500, Thomas Dickey wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010, Oswald Buddenhagen wrote: do in any graphical mail reader), i have to: 1) find out that i can do that at all. the man page doesn't contain the term URL once. 2) write a regexp matching urls See the bottom of the app-defaults file. oh - great. so if i did my initial config now (and not 10 years ago) i'd even have a chance to be clued into the existence and setup of the feature. ;) 3) have some process which leads from a selection to opening a browser. klipper to the rescue! yay! even more regexps! Most people would remember how to use the paste operation (ymmv) you entirely missed the point. it's about reducing the number of manual actions required. you should read some basic literature on usability. right. that's why all graphical muas lack that feature ... ;) hmm - no all. all which have a noteworthy market share (guess why they do). Perhaps all of the ones in front of you at the moment. i'm not aware of any attempts to make mutt graphical. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
The bug reports also demonstrate that they don't really understand the issue, and have made a few changes to make it more complicated. (I'm not expecting anything productive from upstream unless a new developer takes over ;-) Upstream of upstream something productive could come from the xterm maintainer. For instance, friendly features in xterm. If you have not asked yourself yet why Gnome Terminal and Konsole and others are around, this could be the right time. Give xterm the friendliness users are longing for and all those imitations will just disappear. Regards frank ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, frank wrote: The bug reports also demonstrate that they don't really understand the issue, and have made a few changes to make it more complicated. (I'm not expecting anything productive from upstream unless a new developer takes over ;-) Upstream of upstream something productive could come from the xterm maintainer. For instance, friendly features in xterm. If you have not asked yourself yet why Gnome Terminal and Konsole and others are around, this could be the right time. Give xterm the friendliness users are longing for and all those imitations will just disappear. hmm - transparent backgrounds for people who aren't typing or reading. etc. awai -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Thomas Dickey wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010, Oswald Buddenhagen wrote: and maybe you find something inspiring in http://www.midnight-commander.org/ticket/24 ;) yes, I noticed some related reports in either Redhat or Gentoo, which add to my to-do list... -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 07:03:40PM -0500, Thomas Dickey wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010, Oswald Buddenhagen wrote: anyway, some useful features would be tabs, clickable urls and proper It's been configurable for clickable urls, for highlighting for a few years. i suppose you mean the multi-click options. so let's see. to use it in a way even remotely resembling just clicking urls in emails (like it would do in any graphical mail reader), i have to: 1) find out that i can do that at all. the man page doesn't contain the term URL once. 2) write a regexp matching urls 3) have some process which leads from a selection to opening a browser. klipper to the rescue! yay! even more regexps! or maybe a global shortcut with khotkeys to pop up a new empty browser window i could paste the url into? i can't decide - both options are *so* appealing ... arguably, somewhere between 0) and 1), you lost that user friendliness idea frank was mentioning ... ;) Spawning off a web-brower only seems like a good idea until you see it in action. right. that's why all graphical muas lack that feature ... ;) as far as i'm concerned, it would be sufficient if url hovering and clicking would work only when ctrl is held down. oh, wait - that already pops up a menu which does its best to induce rsi by requiring me to hold down the mouse button while i navigate it. next idea then ... config dialogs (imagine - most people don't like reading man pages). most of gnome's users are subliterate, agreed. i'm sure that to switch gears in your car/bike you always lean down and operate them directly - after all, appropriate controls anywhere near the console are clearly meant for illiterates. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010, Oswald Buddenhagen wrote: do in any graphical mail reader), i have to: 1) find out that i can do that at all. the man page doesn't contain the term URL once. 2) write a regexp matching urls See the bottom of the app-defaults file. 3) have some process which leads from a selection to opening a browser. klipper to the rescue! yay! even more regexps! Most people would remember how to use the paste operation (ymmv) right. that's why all graphical muas lack that feature ... ;) hmm - no all. Perhaps all of the ones in front of you at the moment. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:25:46 +0100 Yury V. Zaytsev wrote: This does not really explain why the default key bindings were switched from Ctrl+PgUp and Ctrl+PgDown that I've been using unconsciously for quite a long time at all. Oh, sorry... I didn't quite understand that e-mail. The discussed change of keybindings was inpired by http://www.midnight-commander.org/ticket/1724#comment:4 and http://www.midnight-commander.org/ticket/1724#comment:22 -- Andrew ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 10:23 +, frank wrote: This does not really explain why the default key bindings were switched from Ctrl+PgUp and Ctrl+PgDown that I've been using unconsciously for quite a long time at all. Quite correct and quite oblivious of reality. It must be at least 10 years that editors have standardised on Ctrl-Home and Ctrl-End to move to begin resp. end of buffer. To me, the bigger problem is not what keys are used but whether or or not it works at all. And since the ctrl-home and ctrl-end key combos don't work with MC in GNOME terminal, this change broke the functionality. As best I can tell, the MC developers are blaming the breakage on GNOME terminal and the GNOME terminal developers are saying they won't change the way the key bindings work because it would break lots of other stuff. Is there perhaps some way that these other editors you're mentioning detect Konsole or GNOME terminal and adapt to their slightly out of whack xterm escape sequences? Perhaps MC could be adapted to work correctly with them too. I've been an MC user for at least a decade but changes that have been showing up in recent versions of the MC editor are making the program more and more difficult to use productively. (other nits that annoy me are the recent breakage of the cursor that makes it float out past the real end of line and not wrap correctly, and the earlier change that replaced white space with gibberish characters) And, sorry, I don't really mean to give the idea I don't like MC, because up until recently I've always been a huge proponent of MC and installed it on every GNU/Linux system I've used as well as using it on HPUX, AIX, Solaris, and other systems. It really is a great program and I appreciate all the hard work that's gone into it. :) -Steve ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 10:56 -0600, R. Steven Rainwater wrote: To me, the bigger problem is not what keys are used but whether or or not it works at all. And since the ctrl-home and ctrl-end key combos don't work with MC in GNOME terminal, this change broke the functionality. As best I can tell, the MC developers are blaming the breakage on GNOME terminal and the GNOME terminal developers are saying they won't change the way the key bindings work because it would break lots of other stuff. Are they saying anything at all? Actually, I have just tried Ctrl+PgUp / Ctrl+PgDown (which you can free from the settings dialog) and Ctrl+Home / Ctrl+End on 4.7.0.1 in Gnome Terminal and neither of those takes me to the beginning / end of file. Ctrl+PgUp / Ctrl+PgDown take me to the beginning or the end of the buffer and Ctrl+Home / Ctrl+End behave identically to Home/End. ... I've been an MC user for at least a decade but changes that have been showing up in recent versions of the MC editor are making the program more and more difficult to use productively. (other nits that annoy me are the recent breakage of the cursor that makes it float out past the real end of line and not wrap correctly, and the earlier change that replaced white space with gibberish characters) Both of these are optional and should be off by default. If this is not the case with the latest version, please submit a bug report. -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Miguel P??rez wrote: I love the ability to customize keybindings in 4.7. However, I've noticed some keys cannot be bound because they aren't recognized properly by Midnight Commander. When you hit an unrecognized sequence, mc will simply skip the escape sequence up to a point and print the rest of it. I'm using Konsole, set to the xterm (XFree 4.x.x) keyboard, and $TERM is xterm. These are the key combinations that produce escape sequences but aren't recognized by mc. Everything else either works, or doesn't produce a konsole doesn't send escape sequences that match xterm. Use infocmp konsole xterm to see this. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Thomas Dickey wrote: On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Miguel P??rez wrote: I love the ability to customize keybindings in 4.7. However, I've noticed some keys cannot be bound because they aren't recognized properly by Midnight Commander. When you hit an unrecognized sequence, mc will simply skip the escape sequence up to a point and print the rest of it. I'm using Konsole, set to the xterm (XFree 4.x.x) keyboard, and $TERM is xterm. These are the key combinations that produce escape sequences but aren't recognized by mc. Everything else either works, or doesn't produce a konsole doesn't send escape sequences that match xterm. Use infocmp konsole xterm to see this. ...of course that's assuming that mc relies on the terminal description (I seem to recall some discussion where it's using separate configuration information). Assuming that it's actually using the terminal description, e.g., from ncurses, then mismatches would be due to (a) not using TERM=konsole, and (b) futher mismatches might be due to differences between the current konsole application and the ncurses description. A quick check (using tack and TERM=konsole for konsole 2.3.2) shows no issues. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
Hi! On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 11:50 +0100, Miguel Pérez wrote: I'm using the mc package from Debian sid, version 3:4.7.0-1 on AMD64 with the following --version information: This is weird. 4.7.0.1 should have landed in Sid already. -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
Hello! Indeed, it's available now. I've updated to 4.7.0.1, though there's no difference with regards to Konsole keys. GNU Midnight Commander 4.7.0.1 Sistema de archivos virtual: tarfs, extfs, cpiofs, ftpfs, fish Editor de texto propio incluido Utilizando la biblioteca S-Lang instalada y terminales según terminfo Soporte subshell activo por defecto Soporte para operaciones en 2º plano Soporte para ratón en xterm y consola Linux Soporte para idioma local Soporte para cambio de juegos de caracteres Data types: char 8 int 32 long 64 void * 64 off_t 64 ecs_char 8 Cheers 2010/2/1 Yury V. Zaytsev y...@shurup.com Hi! On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 11:50 +0100, Miguel Pérez wrote: I'm using the mc package from Debian sid, version 3:4.7.0-1 on AMD64 with the following --version information: This is weird. 4.7.0.1 should have landed in Sid already. -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev -- Antes de imprimir este correo electrónico, considera tu responsabilidad medioambiental. Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this email. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Some keys are not properly recognized in Konsole/xterm
On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 06:41 -0500, Thomas Dickey wrote: On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Miguel Pérez wrote: I'm using Konsole, set to the xterm (XFree 4.x.x) keyboard, and $TERM is xterm. These are the key combinations that produce escape sequences but aren't recognized by mc. Everything else either works, or doesn't produce a konsole doesn't send escape sequences that match xterm. Use infocmp konsole xterm to see this. I've noticed similar problems with GNOME terminal in recent versions of MC included with Redhat Fedora. In particular the ctrl-pgup and ctrl-pgdn functionality was recently moved to the ctrl-home and ctrl-end key combos. These key combos don't work in GNOME terminal, so the ability to get instantly to the top and bottom of the file in the MC editor is now lost on GNOME-based GNU/Linux systems (unless the user manually remaps the functionality back to a usable key combo). I'm assuming that in the past, important functionality was intentionally limited to key combos that worked with major term programs like GNOME terminal and Konsole but it seems as if usability on those systems is no longer being tested (or perhaps no longer considered important)? Anyway, it would be nice to see MC work out of the box on GNOME terminal and konsole again on future versions. I love MC but I use GNOME terminal far more often than xterm. -Steve ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
