Re: [MCN-L] Website image cropping

[Chris Alexander]

Thank you to everyone that has replied so far to my inquiry. It’s really nice 
to have a list like this I can turn to, with thoughtful and informative answers 
by professionals in the field. To me, it seems pretty straight-forward - try to 
avoid image cropping because it seems difficult to always get the rights to do 
this. We want the site to look as good as possible and having to jerry-rig an 
image to make it fit might work against this goal.

Hopefully this is discussion is helpful to others.

Best regards,

Chris Alexander
Digital Media Manager
Cantor Arts Center
Stanford University
328 Lomita Drive
Stanford, CA 94305-5060

650.723.6114 | cma...@stanford.edu 
http://museum.stanford.edu
http://cantorcollections.stanford.edu

On Dec 13, 2016, at 4:00 AM, 
mcn-l-requ...@mcn.edu wrote:

Website image cropping

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Re: [MCN-L] Website image cropping

[Jennifer Schmitt]

​Re: [MCN-L] Website image cropping​

So we also have dealt with this issue.  We do one of several things
depending on the work, and the people/personalities in play.

1) In gallery shots.  If a work is hanging on a wall and it is the wall
that is cropped to fit, not the work, this makes life a lot easier.  Same
for sculptures outside.

2) If we have to crop something we always include "detail" as part of the
credit line.

https://decordova.org/art/upcoming-exhibitions

In this case the images have to be 580 x 380 and are scaled for the
exhibition listing. In one case I cropped and added detail to the title, in
the other I added extra white background to fit the dimensions. In both
cases the full works are represented at a higher resolution on the
exhibition page itself.  They are also both works in the collection, not on
loan.  With loans we always get the permission for the crop for print
materials and try to pick pieces/artists for the website that are visually
intersting but also the most felexible with usage.  We have the benefit of
having contemporary artists, the majority of whom understand the situation
and give permission.

Designers want precision of layout, while curators etc. want artistic
integrity honored.  We walk the tightrope in between.

Good luck!

Jenn Schmitt





On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 7:00 AM, <mcn-l-requ...@mcn.edu> wrote:

> Re: [MCN-L] Website image cropping





-- 
*Jennifer Schmitt* | Head of Marketing, Communications, and Digital
Strategy | *deCordova Sculpture Park and Museum* | 51 Sandy Pond Road,
Lincoln, MA 01773 | *T* 781.259.3616
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Re: [MCN-L] website image cropping

[Robin White Owen]

Hi Chris,

We designed a website for the Museum of the City of New York with the same kind 
of banner design: http://activistnewyork.mcny.org
I know some of the photos were copyrighted. I can give you Sarah Spink’s 
contact info, the associate curator, to ask how they handled the 
cropping/copywrite issues.

We also designed a site for the IFPDA <http://www.ifpda.org/> with a massive 
slide show of artwork  that can’t be cropped. We set height and width limits so 
the strange sizes of the works don’t break the design, and had to keep all the 
title/artist/date information in one place as a result. We’re redesigning the 
entire website right now but have kept this slide show format because it 
showcases the art works so well, and that’s what was essential to do.

Best,

Robin

Robin White Owen
M: 917/407-7641
T: 646/472-5145
ro...@mediacombo.net
MediaCombo <http://www.mediacombo.net/>
@rocombo <http://twitter.com/rocombo>

> On Dec 13, 2016, at 7:00 AM, mcn-l-requ...@mcn.edu wrote:
> 
> Send mcn-l mailing list submissions to
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of mcn-l digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Website image cropping (Chris Alexander)
>   2. Re: Website image cropping (Matt Morgan)
>   3. Re: Website image cropping (Leonard Steinbach)
>   4. Re: Website image cropping (Heather Hart)
>   5. Re: Website image cropping (Mike Ellis)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 16:15:44 +0000
> From: Chris Alexander <cma...@stanford.edu>
> To: "mcn-l@mcn.edu" <mcn-l@mcn.edu>
> Subject: [MCN-L] Website image cropping
> Message-ID: <fe296ffa-81b8-4ff7-9894-29609073a...@stanford.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hello all
> 
> We're currently redesigning our website and a question came up. I'm hoping to 
> cull some information from the museum community about how other museums 
> handle the same situation.
> 
> On our exhibition page the redesign relies heavily on landscape image similar 
> to this - where text floats to the left of a landscape image then switches on 
> the next exhibit listing.
> 
>   ???
> text  ?   Image   ?
>   ???
> ???  
> ?   Image   ?  text
> ???  
>   ???
> text  ?   Image   ?
>   ???
> 
> The design requires the images to all be the same size for it to look it's 
> best, meaning they would be cropped in a lot of cases. We came across a lot 
> of museum sites with similar requirements during our discovery phase.
> 
> My question is - how are museums handling this? Do you secure rights for 
> cropping artwork? How difficult has it been if so? Are museums offering a 
> full image view on click of the cropped image? Are there museums throwing 
> caution to the wind?
> 
> Very interested in hearing from you all!
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Chris Alexander
> Digital Media Manager
> Cantor Arts Center
> Stanford University
> 328 Lomita Drive
> Stanford, CA 94305-5060
> 
> 650.723.6114 | cma...@stanford.edu 
> <mailto:cma...@stanford.edu>
> <http://museum.stanford.edu/>http://museum.stanford.edu<http://museum.stanford.edu/>
> <http://cantorcollections.stanford.edu/>http://cantorcollections.stanford.edu<http://cantorcollections.stanford.edu/>
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 11:38:56 -0500
> From: Matt Morgan <m...@concretecomputing.com>
> To: mcn-l@mcn.edu
> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Website image cropping
> Message-ID:
>   <98bbc625-e834-28d6-c98a-06d9b8bbc...@concretecomputing.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
> 
> It's a problem, yes!
> 
> Whoever makes your printed posters can probably tell you how frequently 
> your exh. images need permission/input before cropping. In my 
> experience, on top of the literal rights issues, you also have the 
> personality issues. E.g., when an important person (artist, curator, 
> donor, collector) doesn't like the way something looks, you might not do 
> it even if you're within your rights. Different museums may put 
> different weight on the latte

Re: [MCN-L] Website image cropping

[Amalyah Keshet]

To fine-tune what Leonard wrote a bit, if I may:

n.b.  We are speaking here about works of art still protected by copyright -- 
not works that have entered the public domain.   Works in the public domain may 
of course be cropped.

1)  A museum or other collection does not hold copyright in a 
copyright-protected work held in its collection.  Certainly not if the work is 
only on loan.  The copyright remains with the artist, his/her heirs or 
representatives regardless of where the physical work is.
The exception is if the museum or collection receives a legal transfer of 
copyright in writing from the artist or his/her heirs or representatives.

2) Moral rights: The artist (or his heirs or representatives) is the holder of 
copyright and moral rights in his or her works.   In the US, the provisions of 
VARA apply.

In other countries, particularly in Europe, moral rights are afforded much 
stronger protection.  One of the moral rights of the artist (the "right of 
integrity") is to permit or prevent manipulation of his/her works.  Cropping is 
considered by many to be manipulation or even misrepresentation.  Others narrow 
the issue only to manipulation or misrepresentation that harms the artist's 
reputation.  

Example:  the Succession Picasso is quite particular on this issue, and in 
general does not permit cropping of Picasso's works when reproduced.  
(Reproduced with permission, of course!)

3) It's not just cropping, it's over-printing text, gutters in double spreads, 
bleed or not bleed, fade, etc.  Any manipulation of or change to the work of 
art.

We've found that often, as long as the entire work of art appears in full 
elsewhere in the publication, website, etc., the copyright holder is okay with 
a crop on the cover, home page, etc. as a design element.  The "full view upon 
click" approach that Matt mentions is an interesting equivalent.  

I will take the liberty of adding an opinion.  The more contemporary the artist 
the more comfortable he or she probably is with cropping and certain other 
manipulations; to say that it's part of the common visual vocabulary today is 
something of an understatement.  I also think most website visitors probably 
take it for granted that what's on the homepage is graphic design, not a 
scholarly catalog.  That makes me like Matt's suggestion even more.  

Chris:  good luck!

Amalyah Keshet
Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management
The Israel Museum, Jerusalem




-
[Insert your disclaimer here]
-

-Original Message-
From: mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Leonard 
Steinbach
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 7:18 PM
To: Museum Computer Network Listserv
Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Website image cropping

Building a bit on what Matt is saying, maybe a bit more simply from a rights 
issue.

1) Even if a museums owns a work, it does not necessarily own copyright unless 
it was specifically conveyed in whole or part with purchase (or if loaned - and 
similarly the lender may not have copyright.)  Whether you use an image in 
whole or part in use you are describing, the rights need to be cleared.

2) If even a copyright holder seems to give permission to use a work's image 
online, that  copyright holder may not have the right to permit the image to be 
used if cropped or otherwise manipulated because "moral rights"
under the Visual Artists Rights Act (VARA) or other laws (varies 
internationally, and some state laws may enhance) may apply. Under that
act, under the   "the right of integrity" enables artists to prevent the
intentional distortion mutilation or other modification of a work that is 
harmful to their honor or reputation. or the copyright holder if not the artist 
may not the right to permit such changes. See this doc on the subject 
<http://www.sparcinla.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/DOC_4_SPARC_VARA.pdf> .
  I have no explicit cite on hand with respect to a digital image rather than 
an original work, but this is about "reputation" so  I believe it would apply.

Finally I am aware of the case of an exhibition of a major modern artist, whose 
Estate, which handled rights issues, absolutely, when asked, prohibited the use 
of a cropped image for the front fold of an exhibition brochure. Good thing 
they were asked.

Hope this helps (and please chime in if I have misconstrued something)



On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Matt Morgan <m...@concretecomputing.com>
wrote:

> It's a problem, yes!
>
> Whoever makes your printed posters can probably tell you how 
> frequently your exh. images need permission/input before cropping. In 
> my experience, on top of the literal rights issues, you also have the 
> personality issues.
> E.g., when an important person (artist, curator, donor, collector) 
> doesn't like the way something looks, you might not do it even if 
>

Re: [MCN-L] Website image cropping

[Mike Ellis]

Hi Chris

I don't know about getting rights for cropped images, it sounds like hell
on a stick to me, and I'd imagine best to avoid this if you can...

Clicking to get full image, well yes, but I'd have thought the obvious call
to action / click on an exhibition listing page image would be to link
through to whatever the feature was about rather than to view the image?
But a separate link to a lightbox overlay would seem a good idea - example
http://americanmuseum.org/object/the-race/

We're finding a "Masonry" style approach to be pretty useful (specifically
for object images - but may work here too) for displaying listings with
varying aspect ratios on the module images. This enables us to fix a width
but vary height - example here:
http://swcollectionsexplorer.org.uk/browse-collections/. This also works
for non-object stuff - here's an example with infinite scroll:
https://handelhendrix.org.

(FYI, both sites are WordPress - obviously under the hood WP is doing
auto-cropping for each upload, but crops can be amended manually as
required.)

One of several "masonry" libraries is here: http://masonry.desandro.com/

cheers

Mike

_

Mike Ellis

Thirty8 Digital: a small but perfectly formed digital agency
http://thirty8.co.uk

** NEW: http://wpformuseums.com for people using WordPress in museums **
** Workshops, courses and free downloads: http://trainingdigital.co.uk **





On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 at 16:15 Chris Alexander  wrote:

Hello all

We're currently redesigning our website and a question came up. I'm hoping
to cull some information from the museum community about how other museums
handle the same situation.

On our exhibition page the redesign relies heavily on landscape image
similar to this - where text floats to the left of a landscape image then
switches on the next exhibit listing.

  •••
text  •   Image   •
  •••
•••  
•   Image   •  text
•••  
  •••
text  •   Image   •
  •••

The design requires the images to all be the same size for it to look it's
best, meaning they would be cropped in a lot of cases. We came across a lot
of museum sites with similar requirements during our discovery phase.

My question is - how are museums handling this? Do you secure rights for
cropping artwork? How difficult has it been if so? Are museums offering a
full image view on click of the cropped image? Are there museums throwing
caution to the wind?

Very interested in hearing from you all!

Best regards,

Chris Alexander
Digital Media Manager
Cantor Arts Center
Stanford University
328 Lomita Drive
Stanford, CA 94305-5060

650.723.6114 | cma...@stanford.edu 
http://museum.stanford.edu<
http://museum.stanford.edu/>

http://cantorcollections.stanford.edu
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-- 

_

Mike Ellis

Thirty8 Digital: a small but perfectly formed digital agency: http://
thirty8.co.uk

* My book: http:// heritageweb.co.uk *

* New: Workshops, courses and free downloads: http://
trainingdigital.co.uk/
 *
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Re: [MCN-L] Website image cropping

[Heather Hart]

At The Broad, we do not crop any images without obtaining express permission 
directly from the rights holder and, often, the living artist (our works are 
all copyrighted). Cropping is usually reserved for promotional exhibition 
images, and web permission is sought at the same time as rights for the 
catalogue and any print and digital advertising. 

In all other cases, we try to never crop an artwork image. Our collection 
varies in aspect ratio drastically, but it IS possible to design for variable 
width and height images. This was very frustrating to several designers we 
tried to work with. In the end we had to structure our whole design based on 
that requirement, and I think the site is stronger for it. Even if we could 
crop, it was unpredictable to allow the website to automatically generate a 
cropped image. Custom generating thumbnails for every work based on a certain 
desired aspect ratio to accommodate a website design would have been a far 
greater investment of staff resources than simply imagining a design that 
wouldn't require it.  

Can't wait to see how you handle it!

Heather Hart | The Broad
213.232.6239
hh...@thebroad.org 


-Original Message-
From: mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Matt 
Morgan
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 8:39 AM
To: mcn-l@mcn.edu
Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Website image cropping

It's a problem, yes!

Whoever makes your printed posters can probably tell you how frequently your 
exh. images need permission/input before cropping. In my experience, on top of 
the literal rights issues, you also have the personality issues. E.g., when an 
important person (artist, curator, donor, collector) doesn't like the way 
something looks, you might not do it even if you're within your rights. 
Different museums may put different weight on the latter issue. I don't think 
I've ever cropped an artwork image without a curator having veto power; but 
that may not be the practice everywhere. Being clear about that ahead of time 
may save you a lot of effort down the road, if you can get authority to do it 
within your department.

Sometimes the "full view upon click" approach has helped with one or the other 
kind of issue. But even figuring out what the options are can be a time-sink. 
On the other hand, if you have a poster/print/advertising design department 
already securing permission for this kind of work, maybe you can tell them what 
aspect ratios work for you, and they can handle it.

What about resizing for responsive displays ... will the images retain the same 
shape and details at every size? Or will foreheads potentially get chopped off, 
etc. That may be important for everyone to understand and plan for.

best,
Matt

On 12/12/2016 11:15 AM, Chris Alexander wrote:
> Hello all
>
> We're currently redesigning our website and a question came up. I'm hoping to 
> cull some information from the museum community about how other museums 
> handle the same situation.
>
> On our exhibition page the redesign relies heavily on landscape image similar 
> to this - where text floats to the left of a landscape image then switches on 
> the next exhibit listing.
>
>   ***
> text  *   Image   *
>   ***
> ***  
> *   Image   *  text
> ***  
>   ***
> text  *   Image   *
>   ***
>
> The design requires the images to all be the same size for it to look it's 
> best, meaning they would be cropped in a lot of cases. We came across a lot 
> of museum sites with similar requirements during our discovery phase.
>
> My question is - how are museums handling this? Do you secure rights for 
> cropping artwork? How difficult has it been if so? Are museums offering a 
> full image view on click of the cropped image? Are there museums throwing 
> caution to the wind?
>
> Very interested in hearing from you all!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Chris Alexander
> Digital Media Manager
> Cantor Arts Center
> Stanford University
> 328 Lomita Drive
> Stanford, CA 94305-5060
>
> 650.723.6114 | cma...@stanford.edu 
> <mailto:cma...@stanford.edu> 
> <http://museum.stanford.edu/>http://museum.stanford.edu<http://museum.
> stanford.edu/> 
> <http://cantorcollections.stanford.edu/>http://cantorcollections.stanf
> ord.edu<http://cantorcollections.stanford.edu/>
>
>
> ___
> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum 
> Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu)
>
> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l@mcn.edu
>
> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit:
> http://mcn.edu/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l
>
> The MCN-L archives can be found at:
> http://

Re: [MCN-L] Website image cropping

[Leonard Steinbach]

Building a bit on what Matt is saying, maybe a bit more simply from a
rights issue.

1) Even if a museums owns a work, it does not necessarily own copyright
unless it was specifically conveyed in whole or part with purchase (or if
loaned - and similarly the lender may not have copyright.)  Whether you use
an image in whole or part in use you are describing, the rights need to be
cleared.

2) If even a copyright holder seems to give permission to use a work's
image online, that  copyright holder may not have the right to permit the
image to be used if cropped or otherwise manipulated because "moral rights"
under the Visual Artists Rights Act (VARA) or other laws (varies
internationally, and some state laws may enhance) may apply. Under that
act, under the   "the right of integrity" enables artists to prevent the
intentional distortion mutilation or other modification of a work that is
harmful to their honor or reputation. or the copyright holder if not the
artist may not the right to permit such changes. See this doc on the subject
 .
  I have no explicit cite on hand with respect to a digital image rather
than an original work, but this is about "reputation" so  I believe it
would apply.

Finally I am aware of the case of an exhibition of a major modern artist,
whose Estate, which handled rights issues, absolutely, when asked,
prohibited the use of a cropped image for the front fold of an exhibition
brochure. Good thing they were asked.

Hope this helps (and please chime in if I have misconstrued something)



On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Matt Morgan 
wrote:

> It's a problem, yes!
>
> Whoever makes your printed posters can probably tell you how frequently
> your exh. images need permission/input before cropping. In my experience,
> on top of the literal rights issues, you also have the personality issues.
> E.g., when an important person (artist, curator, donor, collector) doesn't
> like the way something looks, you might not do it even if you're within
> your rights. Different museums may put different weight on the latter
> issue. I don't think I've ever cropped an artwork image without a curator
> having veto power; but that may not be the practice everywhere. Being clear
> about that ahead of time may save you a lot of effort down the road, if you
> can get authority to do it within your department.
>
> Sometimes the "full view upon click" approach has helped with one or the
> other kind of issue. But even figuring out what the options are can be a
> time-sink. On the other hand, if you have a poster/print/advertising design
> department already securing permission for this kind of work, maybe you can
> tell them what aspect ratios work for you, and they can handle it.
>
> What about resizing for responsive displays ... will the images retain the
> same shape and details at every size? Or will foreheads potentially get
> chopped off, etc. That may be important for everyone to understand and plan
> for.
>
> best,
> Matt
>
>
> On 12/12/2016 11:15 AM, Chris Alexander wrote:
>
>> Hello all
>>
>> We're currently redesigning our website and a question came up. I'm
>> hoping to cull some information from the museum community about how other
>> museums handle the same situation.
>>
>> On our exhibition page the redesign relies heavily on landscape image
>> similar to this - where text floats to the left of a landscape image then
>> switches on the next exhibit listing.
>>
>>   •••
>> text  •   Image   •
>>   •••
>> •••  
>> •   Image   •  text
>> •••  
>>   •••
>> text  •   Image   •
>>   •••
>>
>> The design requires the images to all be the same size for it to look
>> it's best, meaning they would be cropped in a lot of cases. We came across
>> a lot of museum sites with similar requirements during our discovery phase.
>>
>> My question is - how are museums handling this? Do you secure rights for
>> cropping artwork? How difficult has it been if so? Are museums offering a
>> full image view on click of the cropped image? Are there museums throwing
>> caution to the wind?
>>
>> Very interested in hearing from you all!
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Chris Alexander
>> Digital Media Manager
>> Cantor Arts Center
>> Stanford University
>> 328 Lomita Drive
>> Stanford, CA 94305-5060
>>
>> 650.723.6114 | cma...@stanford.edu > cma...@stanford.edu>
>> http://museum.stanford.edu> ://museum.stanford.edu/>
>> http://cantorcollect
>> ions.stanford.edu
>>
>>
>> ___
>> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum
>> Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu)
>>
>> To post to this list, send messages to: 

Re: [MCN-L] Website image cropping

[Matt Morgan]

It's a problem, yes!

Whoever makes your printed posters can probably tell you how frequently 
your exh. images need permission/input before cropping. In my 
experience, on top of the literal rights issues, you also have the 
personality issues. E.g., when an important person (artist, curator, 
donor, collector) doesn't like the way something looks, you might not do 
it even if you're within your rights. Different museums may put 
different weight on the latter issue. I don't think I've ever cropped an 
artwork image without a curator having veto power; but that may not be 
the practice everywhere. Being clear about that ahead of time may save 
you a lot of effort down the road, if you can get authority to do it 
within your department.


Sometimes the "full view upon click" approach has helped with one or the 
other kind of issue. But even figuring out what the options are can be a 
time-sink. On the other hand, if you have a poster/print/advertising 
design department already securing permission for this kind of work, 
maybe you can tell them what aspect ratios work for you, and they can 
handle it.


What about resizing for responsive displays ... will the images retain 
the same shape and details at every size? Or will foreheads potentially 
get chopped off, etc. That may be important for everyone to understand 
and plan for.


best,
Matt

On 12/12/2016 11:15 AM, Chris Alexander wrote:

Hello all

We're currently redesigning our website and a question came up. I'm hoping to 
cull some information from the museum community about how other museums handle 
the same situation.

On our exhibition page the redesign relies heavily on landscape image similar 
to this - where text floats to the left of a landscape image then switches on 
the next exhibit listing.

  •••
text  •   Image   •
  •••
•••  
•   Image   •  text
•••  
  •••
text  •   Image   •
  •••

The design requires the images to all be the same size for it to look it's 
best, meaning they would be cropped in a lot of cases. We came across a lot of 
museum sites with similar requirements during our discovery phase.

My question is - how are museums handling this? Do you secure rights for 
cropping artwork? How difficult has it been if so? Are museums offering a full 
image view on click of the cropped image? Are there museums throwing caution to 
the wind?

Very interested in hearing from you all!

Best regards,

Chris Alexander
Digital Media Manager
Cantor Arts Center
Stanford University
328 Lomita Drive
Stanford, CA 94305-5060

650.723.6114 | cma...@stanford.edu 

http://museum.stanford.edu
http://cantorcollections.stanford.edu


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[MCN-L] Website image cropping

[Chris Alexander]

Hello all

We're currently redesigning our website and a question came up. I'm hoping to 
cull some information from the museum community about how other museums handle 
the same situation.

On our exhibition page the redesign relies heavily on landscape image similar 
to this - where text floats to the left of a landscape image then switches on 
the next exhibit listing.

  •••
text  •   Image   •
  •••
•••  
•   Image   •  text
•••  
  •••
text  •   Image   •
  •••

The design requires the images to all be the same size for it to look it's 
best, meaning they would be cropped in a lot of cases. We came across a lot of 
museum sites with similar requirements during our discovery phase.

My question is - how are museums handling this? Do you secure rights for 
cropping artwork? How difficult has it been if so? Are museums offering a full 
image view on click of the cropped image? Are there museums throwing caution to 
the wind?

Very interested in hearing from you all!

Best regards,

Chris Alexander
Digital Media Manager
Cantor Arts Center
Stanford University
328 Lomita Drive
Stanford, CA 94305-5060

650.723.6114 | cma...@stanford.edu 

http://museum.stanford.edu
http://cantorcollections.stanford.edu
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Network (http://www.mcn.edu)

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