date:20110714

From the still photos, it looks like it was headed for the ground 
fast.  My guess is that instincts took over, and the pilot tried to 
regain level flight, and in spite of the wing damage was able too. 
If I had to guess, i'd say the mustang pilot tried to correct, found 
the controls didn't, so he jumped fast.  The Skyraider pilot most 
likely did the same, found the plane responded, so he regained level 
attitude and then managed to land a flying brick outhouse with a Big 
A** engine hung in front.


The skyraider is maybe the only plane in the league with the B-17 of 
being able to sustain unbelievable damage and return home.


So, analyze the other pilot. Why did he chose to hang on and manage 
to land the plane. Did the controls still feel like it was flyable? 
Did he just wait too long to make the decision to jump? Was the 
plane on a more even keel after the impact?


Why did it happen the way it did?

Randy

On 14/07/2011 11:12 AM, G Mann wrote:

Things happen very fast in a high performance aircraft, which the P-51
certainly is, so the decision clock is ticking in nano seconds not minutes.
Add to that the factors of low altitude, large crowd to crash into, loss of
control response [certainly impact damage we don't know what] and quickly
the choice list gets short.

Point the airplane in a safe direction away from crowd [if you can] and EXIT
while you can. You STILL have to have enough altitude to get a full canopy
deployment of the chute or you become a small bag of broken bones at the
funeral.  IMHO, as a pilot, the right decisions were made to exit and lose
the airplane.  With a lifetime love of the P-51 I personally mourn the loss
of yet another of the greatest of airplanes.

Grant...
AZ



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Re: [MBZ] Vacuum Pressure Converter for AT - what's it good for?

He adjusted the intake vacuum flamulator, hopped up the engine 
injection rate, and adjusted the transmission vacuum modulator

So I ended up taking it in to my mechanic, because the 1985 300TD had no
power (especially with AC running), shifted lousy, lost its mojo at 1800 rpm
@ 38 mph, and generally acted like a non-aspirated non-turbo diesel.

Turns out there really was nothing broken.  He charged me for an hour of
labor, and wrote on the ticket: * "Hop up mill; adjust  trans"*.  When I
asked him what this meant (hop up mill) he was incredulous that I didn't
know and basically thought I was pulling his leg.  i was too ashamed to
admit my ignorance and plead for an explanation, so now it's up to someone
in the Okiebenz community to fill me in.

So what did he do, exactly?  The car now has all the pep of the other 300TD.

Andrew
1983 and 1985 turbo wagons

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Alex Chamberlain
wrote:

 Off-list:  BTW, thanks for the compliment below.  :)

 I am trying to break into the technical communication field (from a
 background in finance and software engineering) and I appreciate the
 encouraging words.

 Alex

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 7:54 PM, andrew strasfogel 
 wrote:
 > Alex,I am in awe of your brilliant, clear and patient explanation.
 >
 >

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Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

2011-07-14 Thread Tony Wirtel

> From: Randy Bennell 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford
> Message-ID: <4e1f1736.70...@bennell.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> So, analyze the other pilot. Why did he chose to hang on and manage to
> land the plane. Did the controls still feel like it was flyable? Did he
> just wait too long to make the decision to jump? Was the plane on a more
> even keel after the impact?
>
> Why did it happen the way it did?
>
> Randy
>
>
Randy: The Skyraider is a brick outhouse with wings and a big honking motor
out front.  One of its missions in Vietnam was providing close ground
support/enemy supression and protection to helicopters rescuing downed
airmen.  Its armor and stout protection made it the go-to for such missions
and was in part the inspiration for survivability built into the later A-10
Warthog.

My father in law spend some time in that part of the world and while he
doesn't talk about it he will admit to being a Skyraider passenger once.
Now, how someone 6'6" fit is beyond me but where there's a will and all...

Tony Wirtel
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Re: [MBZ] 74 - 450SL

2011-07-14 Thread Mitch Haley


Dieselhead wrote:

There is an SL list, but I am not aware of a 450 SL list.


And I cannot recall when the SL list last had a message posted to it.
Jim Cathey's wife has/had a 450SL that he did a lot of work on over the years, 
and he's been posting here as he brings her new 560SL up to snuff.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Vacuum Pressure Converter for AT - what's it good for?

2011-07-14 Thread andrew strasfogel

So I ended up taking it in to my mechanic, because the 1985 300TD had no
power (especially with AC running), shifted lousy, lost its mojo at 1800 rpm
@ 38 mph, and generally acted like a non-aspirated non-turbo diesel.

Turns out there really was nothing broken.  He charged me for an hour of
labor, and wrote on the ticket: * "Hop up mill; adjust  trans"*.  When I
asked him what this meant (hop up mill) he was incredulous that I didn't
know and basically thought I was pulling his leg.  i was too ashamed to
admit my ignorance and plead for an explanation, so now it's up to someone
in the Okiebenz community to fill me in.

So what did he do, exactly?  The car now has all the pep of the other 300TD.

Andrew
1983 and 1985 turbo wagons

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Alex Chamberlain
wrote:

> Off-list:  BTW, thanks for the compliment below.  :)
>
> I am trying to break into the technical communication field (from a
> background in finance and software engineering) and I appreciate the
> encouraging words.
>
> Alex
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 7:54 PM, andrew strasfogel 
> wrote:
> > Alex,I am in awe of your brilliant, clear and patient explanation.
> >
> >
>
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Re: [MBZ] 74 - 450SL

Forgot to say, several on this list  have or have had SLs.  So you 
can post questions here.  We may or may not have the answers.  Rusty 
can help with parts, but customs can be a pain.  I do most of the 
work on my daughter's 107.


In spite of my preference for Diesel, I have worked on more gassers 
than I care to remember.


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Re: [MBZ] 74 - 450SL

2011-07-14 Thread andrew strasfogel

That is one FINE looking SL at a great price.  :)

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 9:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is an SL list, but I am not aware of a 450 SL list.
>
>
>  I bought a 450SL today.  (Pictures at: https://picasaweb.google.com/**
>> hamibob/Mercedes450SL)
>>   It's in decent shape - only paid $2500 so I shouldn't lose anything on it.
>>  It runs nicely - nice growl to it.  It needs a bit of body work but way
>> less than the 67 200D.
>>
>> Here's how I wound up with it:  About a month ago, I had the 200D in to
>> have the valves adjusted and told my mechanic friend that I would really
>> rather have a convertible.  He said - I've got just the car for you - it's
>> out back.  It was his lawyer's car and hadn't been registered for 6 years.
>>  I have another friend who is an auto wrecker so I got a good battery for it
>> for $20.  I took it for a short drive today and am riding my bike in
>> tomorrow to drive it home.  (always good to have back up transportation when
>> you're driving a car for the first time - it's about 40 km from my house)
>>
>> I am going to sell the 200D - it looks great and runs great. Everything is
>> not perfect but it's pretty good for a 67 car!  I haven't listed it yet but
>> plan to put it on eBay and local Kijiji. Pictures at:
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/**hamibob/Rolf67200D
>>
>> Does anyone know of an email list for 450SL owners?
>>
>> Thanks.  Bob in Spruce Grove, just west of Edmonton, Alberta.
>> __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives 
>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>
>
>
> __**_
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] 74 - 450SL


There is an SL list, but I am not aware of a 450 SL list.

I bought a 450SL today.  (Pictures at: 
https://picasaweb.google.com/hamibob/Mercedes450SL)   It's in decent 
shape - only paid $2500 so I shouldn't lose anything on it.  It runs 
nicely - nice growl to it.  It needs a bit of body work but way less 
than the 67 200D.


Here's how I wound up with it:  About a month ago, I had the 200D in 
to have the valves adjusted and told my mechanic friend that I would 
really rather have a convertible.  He said - I've got just the car 
for you - it's out back.  It was his lawyer's car and hadn't been 
registered for 6 years.  I have another friend who is an auto 
wrecker so I got a good battery for it for $20.  I took it for a 
short drive today and am riding my bike in tomorrow to drive it 
home.  (always good to have back up transportation when you're 
driving a car for the first time - it's about 40 km from my house)


I am going to sell the 200D - it looks great and runs great. 
Everything is not perfect but it's pretty good for a 67 car!  I 
haven't listed it yet but plan to put it on eBay and local Kijiji. 
Pictures at:  https://picasaweb.google.com/hamibob/Rolf67200D


Does anyone know of an email list for 450SL owners?

Thanks.  Bob in Spruce Grove, just west of Edmonton, Alberta.
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[MBZ] 74 - 450SL

2011-07-14 Thread Bob Hamilton

I bought a 450SL today.  (Pictures at: 
https://picasaweb.google.com/hamibob/Mercedes450SL)   It's in decent shape - 
only paid $2500 so I shouldn't lose anything on it.  It runs nicely - nice 
growl to it.  It needs a bit of body work but way less than the 67 200D.

Here's how I wound up with it:  About a month ago, I had the 200D in to have 
the valves adjusted and told my mechanic friend that I would really rather have 
a convertible.  He said - I've got just the car for you - it's out back.  It 
was his lawyer's car and hadn't been registered for 6 years.  I have another 
friend who is an auto wrecker so I got a good battery for it for $20.  I took 
it for a short drive today and am riding my bike in tomorrow to drive it home.  
(always good to have back up transportation when you're driving a car for the 
first time - it's about 40 km from my house)

I am going to sell the 200D - it looks great and runs great.  Everything is not 
perfect but it's pretty good for a 67 car!  I haven't listed it yet but plan to 
put it on eBay and local Kijiji.  Pictures at:  
https://picasaweb.google.com/hamibob/Rolf67200D

Does anyone know of an email list for 450SL owners?

Thanks.  Bob in Spruce Grove, just west of Edmonton, Alberta.
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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A

2011-07-14 Thread Dimitri Seretakis

Sure we have some diesels here but the selection is extremely limited. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 14, 2011, at 6:00 PM, John Freer  wrote:

Strange comment as I had a 2005 E320CDI registered in CA for 5 years.

Sent from my iPad



On Jul 14, 2011, at 6:02 AM, Rich Thomas  
wrote:

Probably.  The thing is, you can buy a 320CDI in an R, ML and a GL, why not 
everything else?  And the smaller diesel engines too, which I presume act about 
the same as the 320CDI.  Probably some sort of marketing thing, maybe some 
emissions testing/validation issues too.

--R

On 7/14/11 8:51 AM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:
It's because someone in CA saw a fully-laden double-tandem semi
belching coal, and got all huffy.

Walt

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Rich Thomas
  wrote:

None of the diesels (at least the newer ones) I saw had any smoke or smell,
the exhaust on our car had no odor at all.  One diesel Benz that was parked
next to my car at some place had a slight vinegary odor to it, which the
fuel also had, but other than that was not noticeable at all.  I don't quite
understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles, must be some
invisible something or other.

--R


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Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

Sorry, but no redundant controls in P-51.

On second review of the photo sequence, looks like the Skyraider banked
sharply under the aft portion of the P-51 and made hard contact with the
fuselage with right wing tip.  In 3rd photo you will see the outer wing has
detached and in the air, also a piece of aft P-51 trails that piece.  Look
closely and you will see a hard skew direction change of the P-51's path of
flight, so the Skyraider hit it hard enough to smack it out of controlled
flight.

Note post impact pic of the Skyraider where it in hard nose down attitude
with damaged wing and looks to me like trying to recover from aileron roll
and dive.  Slight smoke trail may have been from throttle back smartly, hard
to guess. I'm betting the cockpit got really busy at that moment.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sounds reasonable.  I am sure they had redundant controls, but the tail is
> pretty small, and the collision could have taken out all sets.  It that
> case, it it pretty similar to the UAL232 incident, where the disintegrating
> turbine took out most of the redundant controls in the tail section.
>  Fortunately in this case, there was no loss of life, while in the UAL case,
> loss of life was minimized by skillful handling by the pilot, Al Haynes.
>
>
>
>  Take a closer look at the bottom of plane in the first picture. There is a
>> chunk missing under the tail. You can see reflections from the torn
>> sheetmetal there also. If you look at some of the before pictures of the
>> Mustangs you will see that there is supposed to be a nice smooth transition
>> from the back of the air scoop to the tail. I believe that the control
>> cables to the tail transition from the bottom of the fuselage to the top
>> right about there. Looks like the wing of the Skyraider took out the cables.
>>  At that altitude with no control of the elevator or rudder, you are better
>> off with a jump.  There wasn't any time to try anything else, especially
>> with a Mustang.
>>
>> Manfred
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:42:07 -0500
>> From: Randy Bennell 
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford
>>
>> On 13/07/2011 7:34 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/**news/article-2013219/Pilot-**
>>> Rob-Davies-escapes-WW2-**fighter-mid-air-collision-**airshow.html
>>>
>>>  RLE
>>>  __**_
>>>
>>
>> So, did the pilot who bailed out just panic? Obviously did not have much
>> time to make a decision. Did he make the wrong one?
>>
>> Randy
>>
>> __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives 
>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>
>
>
> __**_
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

Sounds reasonable.  I am sure they had redundant controls, but the 
tail is pretty small, and the collision could have taken out all 
sets.  It that case, it it pretty similar to the UAL232 incident, 
where the disintegrating turbine took out most of the redundant 
controls in the tail section.  Fortunately in this case, there was no 
loss of life, while in the UAL case, loss of life was minimized by 
skillful handling by the pilot, Al Haynes.



Take a closer look at the bottom of plane in the first picture. 
There is a chunk missing under the tail. You can see reflections 
from the torn sheetmetal there also. If you look at some of the 
before pictures of the Mustangs you will see that there is supposed 
to be a nice smooth transition from the back of the air scoop to the 
tail. I believe that the control cables to the tail transition from 
the bottom of the fuselage to the top right about there. Looks like 
the wing of the Skyraider took out the cables.  At that altitude 
with no control of the elevator or rudder, you are better off with a 
jump.  There wasn't any time to try anything else, especially with a 
Mustang.


Manfred



Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:42:07 -0500
From: Randy Bennell 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

On 13/07/2011 7:34 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013219/Pilot-Rob-Davies-escapes-WW2-fighter-mid-air-collision-airshow.html

 RLE
 ___


So, did the pilot who bailed out just panic? Obviously did not have much
time to make a decision. Did he make the wrong one?

Randy

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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A

2011-07-14 Thread John Freer

Strange comment as I had a 2005 E320CDI registered in CA for 5 years.

Sent from my iPad



On Jul 14, 2011, at 6:02 AM, Rich Thomas  
wrote:

> Probably.  The thing is, you can buy a 320CDI in an R, ML and a GL, why not 
> everything else?  And the smaller diesel engines too, which I presume act 
> about the same as the 320CDI.  Probably some sort of marketing thing, maybe 
> some emissions testing/validation issues too.
> 
> --R
> 
> On 7/14/11 8:51 AM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:
>> It's because someone in CA saw a fully-laden double-tandem semi
>> belching coal, and got all huffy.
>> 
>> Walt
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Rich Thomas
>>   wrote:
>> 
>> None of the diesels (at least the newer ones) I saw had any smoke or smell,
>> the exhaust on our car had no odor at all.  One diesel Benz that was parked
>> next to my car at some place had a slight vinegary odor to it, which the
>> fuel also had, but other than that was not noticeable at all.  I don't quite
>> understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles, must be some
>> invisible something or other.
>> 
>> --R
>> 
> 
> ___
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

2011-07-14 Thread MG

Take a closer look at the bottom of plane in the first picture. 
There is a chunk missing under the tail. You can see reflections 
from the torn sheetmetal there also. If you look at some of the 
before pictures of the Mustangs you will see that there is 
supposed to be a nice smooth transition from the back of the air 
scoop to the tail. I believe that the control cables to the tail 
transition from the bottom of the fuselage to the top right about 
there. Looks like the wing of the Skyraider took out the cables. 
 At that altitude with no control of the elevator or rudder, you 
are better off with a jump.  There wasn't any time to try 
anything else, especially with a Mustang.

Manfred

Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:42:07 -0500
From: Randy Bennell 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

On 13/07/2011 7:34 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:
> 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013219/Pilot-Rob-Davies-escapes-WW2-fighter-mid-air-collision-airshow.html

>
> RLE
> ___

So, did the pilot who bailed out just panic? Obviously did not 
have much

time to make a decision. Did he make the wrong one?

Randy

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Re: [MBZ] Sunroof Repair

Well, actually, if you take it apart closed, the alignment may be 
buggered up when you reassemble.   It can be done.  It is not the 
preferred method.  Max is right about how to take off the liner 
panel.   After it is loose, it helps if you can run the sunroof back 
further to clear the liner panel, it helps.


 If you can open the sunroof, take the phillips screws out of the 
chrome slide rails on each side, but not the recessed screw that is 
an adjustment.  The chrome channel will come out on each side.  Then 
you close the sunroof, unhook the cable and the metal roof comes out 
the top.


You must open the roof about half way, then pull / pry down on 
leading edge of the liner which has friction fit pop-in fasteners. 
Once the leading edge is free, pull it forward to remove. Close the 
roof, then you have access to the connection points so you can take 
it all apart.


Max
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

aland...@knology.net wrote:

The '83 300D I just bought has a problem sunroof. It was cocked a 
little when I looked at the car so I asked if it leaked, he said no. 
When he delivered the car yesterday I pointed out the gallon of 
water in the floorboard so we agreed on a $100 price reduction to 
$700. Going to play with the sunroof while I wait on brake repair 
parts.
Of all the 123 Mercedes I've owned and worked on I have never had 
one with a sunroof problem. Some have been slow but they worked. If 
you press the sunroof switch, you just get a thumping noise and the 
sunroof doesn't move. Was able to shut it completely using the bolt 
on the motor. Loaned my repair CD out and am waiting on another one. 
Are there two cables since the switch does not work but the bolt on 
the motor does? Anyone with experience care to point me in the right 
direction?


Alan Duff
Knoxville, TN




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Re: [MBZ] Sunroof Repair

2011-07-14 Thread Max Dillon

You must open the roof about half way, then pull / pry down on leading edge of 
the liner which has friction fit pop-in fasteners. Once the leading edge is 
free, pull it forward to remove. Close the roof, then you have access to the 
connection points so you can take it all apart.

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

aland...@knology.net wrote:

The '83 300D I just bought has a problem sunroof. It was cocked a little when I 
looked at the car so I asked if it leaked, he said no. When he delivered the 
car yesterday I pointed out the gallon of water in the floorboard so we agreed 
on a $100 price reduction to $700. Going to play with the sunroof while I wait 
on brake repair parts.
Of all the 123 Mercedes I've owned and worked on I have never had one with a 
sunroof problem. Some have been slow but they worked. If you press the sunroof 
switch, you just get a thumping noise and the sunroof doesn't move. Was able to 
shut it completely using the bolt on the motor. Loaned my repair CD out and am 
waiting on another one. Are there two cables since the switch does not work but 
the bolt on the motor does? Anyone with experience care to point me in the 
right direction?

Alan Duff
Knoxville, TN




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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: Back in the US of A

Naa, they are the first-invaders.  They exploited the land before 
anyone else go there.



You are showing your Euro-centric exploiter views.  Those people are 
Pre-European-Invader Indigenous Peoples.  Get with it.


--R

On 7/14/11 10:09 AM, Allan Streib wrote:

That valley had smog when only native americans lived there.
Atmospheric "inversion" or something like that, it's caused by the
climate and geography.

Allan


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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A

2011-07-14 Thread Max Dillon

Good times, enjoying a beautiful country while driving something new and 
different. last trip to Italy we had a BMW diesel wagon, my nephew-in-law 
drives an Alfa Romeo diesel sedan.

We won't see anything like those until the market demands it.

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Rich Thomas  wrote:

Did a little road trip around Spain and Portugal the last few days. 
Rented a Peugeot 508 diesel wagon (had 8km on it when Avis gave it to 
me) 6spd which was a very nice car and quite roomy. Very nice nav 
system and graphics built in (I took a Tomtom with Iberian maps, but 
ended up relying on the Spanish-speaking nav system we called 
"Peugie"). 4 people and lots of luggage. 2 tanks of fuel in about 9 
days of driving, nearly a 1000mi I think, could have been more I will 
have to look at the receipt. Most every car I saw was a diesel, 
including lots of Benzes of all sizes from A to S, including some very 
nice CLS320CDIs and S320CDIs (drool!). Maybe 15% were gassers. Lots of 
beemers and jap cars too, all diesels. Diesel fuel was the cheapest at 
about e1.40/ltr give or take, gas another 10-20cents more. Filling the 
tank was over e70 (ouch). I got pretty good at the manual tranny in 
some VERY challenging streets in the VERY old hill towns but at one 
point the clutch was stinking pretty badly (FIIAR).

I still wonder why we can't get all these great cars here in the US -- 
the wagon was getting about 40mpg on the road (if my calculations were 
close) at 120kph on the Autovia freeways. I want one of those big 
diesel Benzes.

---R

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Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

P-51 is heralded as the best plane ever, and I tend to be in the 
school with those who worship the P-51.  However, during WWII, it had 
a reputation for snapping off the wings when pulling out of a dive. 
Not endearing to those who flew it.

Dumb, but Lucky by Richard Curtis is a good book written by one of 
the guys who flew them in Europe.  He is not of the school that 
worships the P-51.  To him it was the tool he rode in to do his job.

In the video, I did not see anything that would have prevented the 
Mustang from flying and landing.  However, as stated before, it was a 
decision that had to  be made in a split second.

A1 Skyraider has reputation of being a very tough plane that will 
take a lot of abuse and keep flying, so that pilot may have been 
more willing to try flying it. I don't know if the P51 enjoys the 
same rep.

Also the A1 is younger and a more modern design.

Max (who is not a licensed pilot)
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

G Mann  wrote:

Things happen very fast in a high performance aircraft, which the P-51
certainly is, so the decision clock is ticking in nano seconds not minutes.
Add to that the factors of low altitude, large crowd to crash into, loss of
control response [certainly impact damage we don't know what] and quickly
the choice list gets short.

Point the airplane in a safe direction away from crowd [if you can] and EXIT
while you can. You STILL have to have enough altitude to get a full canopy
deployment of the chute or you become a small bag of broken bones at the
funeral. IMHO, as a pilot, the right decisions were made to exit and lose
the airplane. With a lifetime love of the P-51 I personally mourn the loss
of yet another of the greatest of airplanes.

Grant...
AZ

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Walt Zarnoch  wrote:

 Planes are replaceable (they still have blueprints), people aren't.
 I think the pilot made the best decision he could, given the circumstances.

 Walt

 On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Randy Bennell 
 wrote:
 > On 13/07/2011 7:34 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:
 >>
 >>
 >>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013219/Pilot-Rob-Davies-escapes-WW2-fighter-mid-air-collision-airshow.html
 >>
 >> RLE

 > >>_

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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: Back in the US of A

2011-07-14 Thread ernest breakfield

yep; Native American Indian name for what's now the L.A. Basin roughly 
translated to "The Valley of the Smokes".
anyone who doesn't understand the value of the efforts to try to 
clean up vehicle emissions didn't see the difference between what it 
looks like there now and what it looked like in decades gone by. 
(apparently regulators in some other states recognize the benefits, as 
several other states have followed California's emissions standards.)


if we want to be honest about who to blame for the poor choice of 
diesel cars available for sale in the US, we need look no further than 
our own back yard:
- Detroit for producing the crappy passenger diesels that most 
Amerikuns can't seem to forget, and
- the Trucking Lobby that was so focused on only its own profits 
that it managed to keep us using some of the dirtiest diesel fuel in the 
world up until recently (making it impossible to use much of the Clean 
Diesel technology the rest of the world had that required cleaner fuel 
than we pumped here).


things are getting better as technology catches up with the goals. 
we already have some diesels available here again, and they cause less 
harm than any before them. change isn't always quick/cheap/easy, but the 
results are looking promising.



cheers!
e


On 14/Jul/11 07:09, Allan Streib wrote:


That valley had smog when only native americans lived there.
Atmospheric "inversion" or something like that, it's caused by the
climate and geography.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: Back in the US of A

You are showing your Euro-centric exploiter views.  Those people are 
Pre-European-Invader Indigenous Peoples.  Get with it.


--R

On 7/14/11 10:09 AM, Allan Streib wrote:

That valley had smog when only native americans lived there.
Atmospheric "inversion" or something like that, it's caused by the
climate and geography.

Allan


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Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

2011-07-14 Thread Max Dillon

A1 Skyraider has reputation of being a very tough plane that will take a lot of 
abuse and keep flying, so that pilot may have been more willing to try flying 
it. I don't know if the P51 enjoys the same rep.

Also the A1 is younger and a more modern design.

Max (who is not a licensed pilot)
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

G Mann  wrote:

Things happen very fast in a high performance aircraft, which the P-51
certainly is, so the decision clock is ticking in nano seconds not minutes.
Add to that the factors of low altitude, large crowd to crash into, loss of
control response [certainly impact damage we don't know what] and quickly
the choice list gets short.

Point the airplane in a safe direction away from crowd [if you can] and EXIT
while you can. You STILL have to have enough altitude to get a full canopy
deployment of the chute or you become a small bag of broken bones at the
funeral. IMHO, as a pilot, the right decisions were made to exit and lose
the airplane. With a lifetime love of the P-51 I personally mourn the loss
of yet another of the greatest of airplanes.

Grant...
AZ

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Walt Zarnoch  wrote:

> Planes are replaceable (they still have blueprints), people aren't.
> I think the pilot made the best decision he could, given the circumstances.
>
> Walt
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Randy Bennell 
> wrote:
> > On 13/07/2011 7:34 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013219/Pilot-Rob-Davies-escapes-WW2-fighter-mid-air-collision-airshow.html
> >>
> >> RLE
> >>_

> >
> > So, did the pilot who bailed out just panic? Obviously did not have much
> > time to make a decision. Did he make the wrong one?
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >_

> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>_

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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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[MBZ] Sunroof Repair

2011-07-14 Thread alanduff

The '83 300D  I just bought has a problem sunroof. It was cocked a little when 
I looked at the car so I asked if it leaked, he said no. When he delivered the 
car yesterday I pointed out the gallon of water in the floorboard so we agreed 
on a $100 price reduction to $700. Going to play with the sunroof while I wait 
on brake repair parts.
Of all the 123 Mercedes I've owned and worked on I have never had one with a 
sunroof problem. Some have been slow but they worked. If you press the sunroof 
switch, you just get a thumping noise and the sunroof doesn't move. Was able to 
shut it completely using the bolt on the motor. Loaned my repair CD out and am 
waiting on another one. Are there two cables since the switch does not work but 
the bolt on the motor does?  Anyone with experience care to point me in the 
right direction?

Alan Duff
Knoxville, TN




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Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

It appears the other airplane still had directional control [rudder and
elevator undamaged] and if you look closely at the inflight pics you can see
there was still alron movement to keep the damaged wing in action. Despite
losing the outer 1/3 of the wing, the undamaged portion made enough lift to
return the airplane to land safely while the alron was "enough" to keep the
aircraft from spinning while the good wing out lifted the damaged one..
another great airplane design at work.

Again, short clock, good decisions, great pilots flying great airplanes.
It's why flight suits used to be brown.. BTW... the "spots" didn't show as
bad when you flew your damaged fighter all the way home.

All from back in the day of wooden ships and iron men.

When I die I'll know I've gone to heaven when I drive my perfect diesel MBZ
to the airport every day and pick from a line of perfect WW2 fighters to fly
and they always have full fuel tanks of 120 Octane purple gas, and never
wear out.

Back to reality,

Grant...
AZ

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Randy Bennell  wrote:

> So, analyze the other pilot. Why did he chose to hang on and manage to land
> the plane. Did the controls still feel like it was flyable? Did he just wait
> too long to make the decision to jump? Was the plane on a more even keel
> after the impact?
>
> Why did it happen the way it did?
>
> Randy
>
> On 14/07/2011 11:12 AM, G Mann wrote:
>
>> Things happen very fast in a high performance aircraft, which the P-51
>> certainly is, so the decision clock is ticking in nano seconds not
>> minutes.
>> Add to that the factors of low altitude, large crowd to crash into, loss
>> of
>> control response [certainly impact damage we don't know what] and quickly
>> the choice list gets short.
>>
>> Point the airplane in a safe direction away from crowd [if you can] and
>> EXIT
>> while you can. You STILL have to have enough altitude to get a full canopy
>> deployment of the chute or you become a small bag of broken bones at the
>> funeral.  IMHO, as a pilot, the right decisions were made to exit and lose
>> the airplane.  With a lifetime love of the P-51 I personally mourn the
>> loss
>> of yet another of the greatest of airplanes.
>>
>> Grant...
>> AZ
>>
>>
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A

2011-07-14 Thread Curt Raymond

I was in Abilene, TX Sun-Wed, had a Dodge Avenger. What a horrible cheap 
feeling POS. Massive throttle lag when you really stomp on it plus massive 
transmission lag almost got me killed on a couple occasions where my 190D would 
have been much faster off the line.

The AC could barely keep up at 95F, never mind the daytime high of 106F...

~22mpg, abysmal, its not a very big car.

Why didn't we let Chrysler die?

-Curt

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 22:49:40 -0400
From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: [MBZ] Back in the US of A
Message-ID: <4e1e5944.2010...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Did a little road trip around Spain and Portugal the last few days. 
Rented a Peugeot 508 diesel wagon (had 8km on it when Avis gave it to
me) 6spd which was a very nice car and quite roomy.  Very nice nav
system and graphics built in (I took a Tomtom with Iberian maps, but
ended up relying on the Spanish-speaking nav system we called
"Peugie").  4 people and lots of luggage.  2 tanks of fuel in about 9
days of driving, nearly a 1000mi I think, could have been more I will
have to look at the receipt.  Most every car I saw was a diesel,
including lots of Benzes of all sizes from A to S, including some very
nice CLS320CDIs and S320CDIs (drool!).  Maybe 15% were gassers.  Lots of
beemers and jap cars too, all diesels.  Diesel fuel was the cheapest at
about e1.40/ltr give or take, gas another 10-20cents more.  Filling the
tank was over e70 (ouch).  I got pretty good at the manual tranny in
some VERY challenging streets in the VERY old hill towns but at one
point the clutch was stinking pretty badly (FIIAR).

I still wonder why we can't get all these great cars here in the US --
the wagon was getting about 40mpg on the road (if my calculations were
close) at 120kph on the Autovia freeways.  I want one of those big
diesel Benzes.

---R

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Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

2011-07-14 Thread Randy Bennell

So, analyze the other pilot. Why did he chose to hang on and manage to 
land the plane. Did the controls still feel like it was flyable? Did he 
just wait too long to make the decision to jump? Was the plane on a more 
even keel after the impact?


Why did it happen the way it did?

Randy

On 14/07/2011 11:12 AM, G Mann wrote:

Things happen very fast in a high performance aircraft, which the P-51
certainly is, so the decision clock is ticking in nano seconds not minutes.
Add to that the factors of low altitude, large crowd to crash into, loss of
control response [certainly impact damage we don't know what] and quickly
the choice list gets short.

Point the airplane in a safe direction away from crowd [if you can] and EXIT
while you can. You STILL have to have enough altitude to get a full canopy
deployment of the chute or you become a small bag of broken bones at the
funeral.  IMHO, as a pilot, the right decisions were made to exit and lose
the airplane.  With a lifetime love of the P-51 I personally mourn the loss
of yet another of the greatest of airplanes.

Grant...
AZ




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Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

Things happen very fast in a high performance aircraft, which the P-51
certainly is, so the decision clock is ticking in nano seconds not minutes.
Add to that the factors of low altitude, large crowd to crash into, loss of
control response [certainly impact damage we don't know what] and quickly
the choice list gets short.

Point the airplane in a safe direction away from crowd [if you can] and EXIT
while you can. You STILL have to have enough altitude to get a full canopy
deployment of the chute or you become a small bag of broken bones at the
funeral.  IMHO, as a pilot, the right decisions were made to exit and lose
the airplane.  With a lifetime love of the P-51 I personally mourn the loss
of yet another of the greatest of airplanes.

Grant...
AZ

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Walt Zarnoch  wrote:

> Planes are replaceable (they still have blueprints), people aren't.
> I think the pilot made the best decision he could, given the circumstances.
>
> Walt
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Randy Bennell 
> wrote:
> > On 13/07/2011 7:34 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013219/Pilot-Rob-Davies-escapes-WW2-fighter-mid-air-collision-airshow.html
> >>
> >> RLE
> >> ___
> >
> > So, did the pilot who bailed out just panic? Obviously did not have much
> > time to make a decision. Did he make the wrong one?
> >
> > Randy
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
> ___
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

2011-07-14 Thread Randy Bennell


Did not mean to sound harsh.

Hard to second guess the pilot. Maybe he saw the piece from the other 
plane and thought it was from his plane?
Just seems interesting that he bailed and the pilot with a big chunk of 
wing missing managed to land it.


I suppose damage to controls might have left the plane unresponsive even 
though no parts fell off.


Good that he apparently survived relatively unscathed given the low 
altitude.


Randy

On 14/07/2011 10:58 AM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:

Planes are replaceable (they still have blueprints), people aren't.
I think the pilot made the best decision he could, given the circumstances.

Walt

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Randy Bennell  wrote:

On 13/07/2011 7:34 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013219/Pilot-Rob-Davies-escapes-WW2-fighter-mid-air-collision-airshow.html

RLE
___

So, did the pilot who bailed out just panic? Obviously did not have much
time to make a decision. Did he make the wrong one?

Randy




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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A

Perhaps the new state of Southern California will break away from the land
of fruits and nuts and set a new standard of operation, while the old state
of fruits and nuts and all their regulations will drop into the ocean when
the san andreas finally works properly.
A.. I forgot... they are now so broke they have regulated themselves out
of existence already, just haven't faced up to the reason why there has been
a mass exodus of companies and people all who pay taxes. Which has been
followed by Fed gov.

It makes me so mad, I'm gonna peel out in my cheby volt... ohhh... it
won't...

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

> I took a taxi ride in a Pious in Granada, it sorta makes sense in the hilly
> towns.  There were a lot of those things (hilly towns and Piouses) around.
>  I noticed when we were in it that a couple of people nearly stepped out in
> front of it as they did not hear it coming at them.  I thought that only
> happened to me when I was on my bike.
>
> None of the diesels (at least the newer ones) I saw had any smoke or smell,
> the exhaust on our car had no odor at all.  One diesel Benz that was parked
> next to my car at some place had a slight vinegary odor to it, which the
> fuel also had, but other than that was not noticeable at all.  I don't quite
> understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles, must be some
> invisible something or other.
>
> --R
>
> On 7/13/11 11:29 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote:
>
>> We just get stuck with lame ass priuses here. God forbid we Americans
>>  embrace a fuel efficient diesel.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 13, 2011, at 10:49 PM, Rich Thomas> constructivity.net >  wrote:
>>
>> Did a little road trip around Spain and Portugal the last few days.
>>  Rented a Peugeot 508 diesel wagon (had 8km on it when Avis gave it to me)
>> 6spd which was a very nice car and quite roomy.  Very nice nav system and
>> graphics built in (I took a Tomtom with Iberian maps, but ended up relying
>> on the Spanish-speaking nav system we called "Peugie").  4 people and lots
>> of luggage.  2 tanks of fuel in about 9 days of driving, nearly a 1000mi I
>> think, could have been more I will have to look at the receipt.  Most every
>> car I saw was a diesel, including lots of Benzes of all sizes from A to S,
>> including some very nice CLS320CDIs and S320CDIs (drool!).  Maybe 15% were
>> gassers.  Lots of beemers and jap cars too, all diesels.  Diesel fuel was
>> the cheapest at about e1.40/ltr give or take, gas another 10-20cents more.
>>  Filling the tank was over e70 (ouch).  I got pretty good at the manual
>> tranny in some VERY challenging streets in the VERY old hill towns but at
>> one
>>  point the clutch was stinking pretty badly (FIIAR).
>>
>> I still wonder why we can't get all these great cars here in the US -- the
>> wagon was getting about 40mpg on the road (if my calculations were close) at
>> 120kph on the Autovia freeways.  I want one of those big diesel Benzes.
>>
>> ---R
>>
>> __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives 
>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

Planes are replaceable (they still have blueprints), people aren't.
I think the pilot made the best decision he could, given the circumstances.

Walt

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Randy Bennell  wrote:
> On 13/07/2011 7:34 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013219/Pilot-Rob-Davies-escapes-WW2-fighter-mid-air-collision-airshow.html
>>
>> RLE
>> ___
>
> So, did the pilot who bailed out just panic? Obviously did not have much
> time to make a decision. Did he make the wrong one?
>
> Randy
>
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Re: [MBZ] P-51 lost at Duxford

2011-07-14 Thread Randy Bennell


On 13/07/2011 7:34 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013219/Pilot-Rob-Davies-escapes-WW2-fighter-mid-air-collision-airshow.html

RLE
___


So, did the pilot who bailed out just panic? Obviously did not have much 
time to make a decision. Did he make the wrong one?


Randy

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[MBZ] Benz C300 4matic luxury (Ithaca)

2011-07-14 Thread Michael Canfield

Looks like a decent deal if someone wants a nice ride. Probably a Cornell
student seeing it is in Ithaca.

Mike

2008 4-matic (AWD), keyless entry, Integrated Garage Door Opener, power
everything, leather interior and heated front seats, Anti-lock Brakes,
Anti-theft System, Auto-dimming Mirror, Bucket Seats, CD (Single Disc),
Child Seat Anchors, Cruise Control, Cup Holder, Dual-zone Climate Control,
Fog Lights, Folding Mirrors, Front Airbags (Dual), Front Side Airbags
(Driver), Handsfree/Bluetooth Integration, Heated Mirrors, Intermittent
Wipers, Leather Steering Wheel, MP3 capability, Premium Sound System,
Premium Wheels, Reading Lights, Rear Window Defroster, Satellite Radio, Side
Curtain Airbags, Steering Wheel Controls, Tachometer, Thermometer, Tire
Pressure Monitoring System, Traction/Stability Control, Trip Computer,
Vanity Mirror/Light, Wood Trim...just too many to list.
Up-to-date service done and has all service records at hand too.

Not a spot of rust. Instead of standard 4 airbags, it has 6! You can check
the safety review at:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Mercedes-Benz_C-Class/Safety/

Approx. 6 highway miles. The next major servicing is not due till
65,000. Third party warranty for 7 years or 100,000 miles from Diamond
Warranty Corporation (Elite Coverage Plans), transferrable, worth $2000.

Currently using almost new branded all seasons tires.

KBB: ($26, 040)
http://www.kbb.com/mercedes-benz/c-class/2008-mercedes-benz-c-class/c300-4matic-luxury-sedan-4d/?vehicleid=197487&intent=trade-in-sell&mileage=6&options=2135639%7ctrue%7c2135642%7ctrue%7c2135639%7ctrue%7c4484514%7ctrue&pricetype=private-party&condition=excellent

NADA: ($24, 775 for clean trade-in)
http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2008/Mercedes-Benz/C-Class/Sedan-4D-C300-AWD/Standard-Equipment#

Vehicle in excellent condition. Just passed Jun 2011 inspection. I am asking
$23, 000 neg. as I needed to switch to a bigger car. The third party
warranty is not transferrable to dealers so I am not in favor of selling it
to them. Serious inquiries only.

Thanks.

http://ithaca.craigslist.org/cto/2493559426.html

via @craigsnotifica #AndroidApp
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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: Back in the US of A

CA needs to become it's own country, and stop leeching off of us...

Walt

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Allan Streib  wrote:
> Jim Cathey  writes:
>
>>> I don't quite understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles,
>>> must be some invisible something or other.
>>
>> CARB doesn't like diesel cooties.  They saw a 1950's GMC bus once,
>> and a bulldozer, and it scared them.
>
> Yes, and the foreign makers will not import a car if they cannot sell it
> in California.  The market is THAT significant.
>
> Allan
> --
> 1983 300D
>
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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: Back in the US of A

2011-07-14 Thread Allan Streib

Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> writes:

> LALA land still has smog even with all their priii and "clean"
> gassers.  It ain't caused by Diesels.  They still can't figger out
> they picked the wrong place to live.  Much easier to blame those
> terrbal dissels.

That valley had smog when only native americans lived there.
Atmospheric "inversion" or something like that, it's caused by the
climate and geography.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: Back in the US of A

2011-07-14 Thread Allan Streib

Jim Cathey  writes:

>> I don't quite understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles,
>> must be some invisible something or other.
>
> CARB doesn't like diesel cooties.  They saw a 1950's GMC bus once,
> and a bulldozer, and it scared them.

Yes, and the foreign makers will not import a car if they cannot sell it
in California.  The market is THAT significant.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A

2011-07-14 Thread WILTON

GM Diesel cars of late '70's didn't help American's perception of Diesels , 
either.  I think they contributed greatly to demise of the American Diesel 
"market."


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Walt Zarnoch" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A


It's because someone in CA saw a fully-laden double-tandem semi
belching coal, and got all huffy.

Walt

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Rich Thomas
 wrote:
I took a taxi ride in a Pious in Granada, it sorta makes sense in the 
hilly

towns. There were a lot of those things (hilly towns and Piouses) around.
I noticed when we were in it that a couple of people nearly stepped out in
front of it as they did not hear it coming at them. I thought that only
happened to me when I was on my bike.

None of the diesels (at least the newer ones) I saw had any smoke or 
smell,

the exhaust on our car had no odor at all. One diesel Benz that was parked
next to my car at some place had a slight vinegary odor to it, which the
fuel also had, but other than that was not noticeable at all. I don't 
quite

understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles, must be some
invisible something or other.

--R

On 7/13/11 11:29 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote:


We just get stuck with lame ass priuses here. God forbid we Americans
embrace a fuel efficient diesel.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 13, 2011, at 10:49 PM, Rich
Thomas wrote:

Did a little road trip around Spain and Portugal the last few days.
Rented a Peugeot 508 diesel wagon (had 8km on it when Avis gave it to me)
6spd which was a very nice car and quite roomy. Very nice nav system and
graphics built in (I took a Tomtom with Iberian maps, but ended up 
relying

on the Spanish-speaking nav system we called "Peugie"). 4 people and lots
of luggage. 2 tanks of fuel in about 9 days of driving, nearly a 1000mi I
think, could have been more I will have to look at the receipt. Most 
every
car I saw was a diesel, including lots of Benzes of all sizes from A to 
S,

including some very nice CLS320CDIs and S320CDIs (drool!). Maybe 15% were
gassers. Lots of beemers and jap cars too, all diesels. Diesel fuel was
the cheapest at about e1.40/ltr give or take, gas another 10-20cents 
more.

Filling the tank was over e70 (ouch). I got pretty good at the manual
tranny in some VERY challenging streets in the VERY old hill towns but at
one
point the clutch was stinking pretty badly (FIIAR).

I still wonder why we can't get all these great cars here in the US --  
the
wagon was getting about 40mpg on the road (if my calculations were close) 
at

120kph on the Autovia freeways. I want one of those big diesel Benzes.

---R

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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A

Close Walt, but it was 40 years ago, a 2 stroke GM diesel that the 
owner  "turned up" the injection for "more power" and the brain 
children of CARB "KNOW" all diesels are like that.




It's because someone in CA saw a fully-laden double-tandem semi
belching coal, and got all huffy.

Walt

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Rich Thomas
 wrote:

 I took a taxi ride in a Pious in Granada, it sorta makes sense in the hilly
 towns.  There were a lot of those things (hilly towns and Piouses) around.
  I noticed when we were in it that a couple of people nearly stepped out in
 front of it as they did not hear it coming at them.  I thought that only
 happened to me when I was on my bike.

 None of the diesels (at least the newer ones) I saw had any smoke or smell,
 the exhaust on our car had no odor at all.  One diesel Benz that was parked
 next to my car at some place had a slight vinegary odor to it, which the
 fuel also had, but other than that was not noticeable at all.  I don't quite
 understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles, must be some
 invisible something or other.

 --R

 On 7/13/11 11:29 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote:


 We just get stuck with lame ass priuses here. God forbid we Americans
  embrace a fuel efficient diesel.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 13, 2011, at 10:49 PM, Rich
 Thomas  wrote:

 Did a little road trip around Spain and Portugal the last few days.
  Rented a Peugeot 508 diesel wagon (had 8km on it when Avis gave it to me)
 6spd which was a very nice car and quite roomy.  Very nice nav system and
 graphics built in (I took a Tomtom with Iberian maps, but ended up relying
 on the Spanish-speaking nav system we called "Peugie").  4 people and lots
 of luggage.  2 tanks of fuel in about 9 days of driving, nearly a 1000mi I
 think, could have been more I will have to look at the receipt.  Most every
 car I saw was a diesel, including lots of Benzes of all sizes from A to S,
 including some very nice CLS320CDIs and S320CDIs (drool!).  Maybe 15% were
 gassers.  Lots of beemers and jap cars too, all diesels.  Diesel fuel was
 the cheapest at about e1.40/ltr give or take, gas another 10-20cents more.
  Filling the tank was over e70 (ouch).  I got pretty good at the manual
 tranny in some VERY challenging streets in the VERY old hill towns but at
 one
  point the clutch was stinking pretty badly (FIIAR).

 I still wonder why we can't get all these great cars here in the US -- the
 wagon was getting about 40mpg on the road (if my calculations 
were close) at

 120kph on the Autovia freeways.  I want one of those big diesel Benzes.

 ---R

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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: Back in the US of A

LALA land still has smog even with all their priii and "clean" 
gassers.  It ain't caused by Diesels.  They still can't figger out 
they picked the wrong place to live.  Much easier to blame those 
terrbal dissels.




I don't quite understand the Collyfawnya issues with these 
vehicles, must be some invisible something or other.


CARB doesn't like diesel cooties.  They saw a 1950's GMC bus once,
and a bulldozer, and it scared them.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A

The Massholes also got on the Collyfawnya wagon and banned diesels some 
years ago (after I left, fortunately, and went to Texas where I got 
bit).  Don't know if that has changed or not.  Maybe we can get Bwawney 
Fwank and Jon Carry to look into it when they have some time after 
destroying the economy.


--R

On 7/14/11 9:17 AM, Jim Cathey wrote:
I don't quite understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles, 
must be some invisible something or other.


CARB doesn't like diesel cooties.  They saw a 1950's GMC bus once,
and a bulldozer, and it scared them.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: Back in the US of A

Maybe it's because their acronym doesn't match the preferred fuel
delivery system on a diesel?

Maybe they're ticked that diesels had fuel injection and direct
injection sooner than gassers, and they're stuck in the stone age?

I could keep going, haha.

Walt

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
>> I don't quite understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles, must
>> be some invisible something or other.
>
> CARB doesn't like diesel cooties.  They saw a 1950's GMC bus once,
> and a bulldozer, and it scared them.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A

2011-07-14 Thread Dan Penoff

Great story on Planet Money (NPR program) this week about the economics of the 
Prius relative to the social influence of driving a hybrid car.

Makes for a pretty interesting story on how our need for acceptance and/or 
social standing influences our choices, as well as the economic impact of the 
same.

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 14, 2011, at 8:35 AM, Rich Thomas  
wrote:

> I took a taxi ride in a Pious in Granada, it sorta makes sense in the hilly 
> towns.  There were a lot of those things (hilly towns and Piouses) around.  I 
> noticed when we were in it that a couple of people nearly stepped out in 
> front of it as they did not hear it coming at them.  I thought that only 
> happened to me when I was on my bike.
> 
> None of the diesels (at least the newer ones) I saw had any smoke or smell, 
> the exhaust on our car had no odor at all.  One diesel Benz that was parked 
> next to my car at some place had a slight vinegary odor to it, which the fuel 
> also had, but other than that was not noticeable at all.  I don't quite 
> understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles, must be some invisible 
> something or other.
> 
> --R
> 
> On 7/13/11 11:29 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote:
>> We just get stuck with lame ass priuses here. God forbid we Americans  
>> embrace a fuel efficient diesel.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 13, 2011, at 10:49 PM, Rich 
>> Thomas  wrote:
>> 
>> Did a little road trip around Spain and Portugal the last few days.  Rented 
>> a Peugeot 508 diesel wagon (had 8km on it when Avis gave it to me) 6spd 
>> which was a very nice car and quite roomy.  Very nice nav system and 
>> graphics built in (I took a Tomtom with Iberian maps, but ended up relying 
>> on the Spanish-speaking nav system we called "Peugie").  4 people and lots 
>> of luggage.  2 tanks of fuel in about 9 days of driving, nearly a 1000mi I 
>> think, could have been more I will have to look at the receipt.  Most every 
>> car I saw was a diesel, including lots of Benzes of all sizes from A to S, 
>> including some very nice CLS320CDIs and S320CDIs (drool!).  Maybe 15% were 
>> gassers.  Lots of beemers and jap cars too, all diesels.  Diesel fuel was 
>> the cheapest at about e1.40/ltr give or take, gas another 10-20cents more.  
>> Filling the tank was over e70 (ouch).  I got pretty good at the manual 
>> tranny in some VERY challenging streets in the VERY old hill towns but at one
>>  point the clutch was stinking pretty badly (FIIAR).
>> 
>> I still wonder why we can't get all these great cars here in the US -- the 
>> wagon was getting about 40mpg on the road (if my calculations were close) at 
>> 120kph on the Autovia freeways.  I want one of those big diesel Benzes.
>> 
>> ---R
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A

They test diesel emissions at idle (or used to), neglecting the fuel
efficiency once at speed. So even though it takes half as much fuel to
get from point A to point B, since the idle emissions are higher
they're bad.

I can kinda see the point in dense urban stop/go, but compared to the
bug-fogging Honda's and crap that I see, a diesel is much cleaner...

Walt

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Rich Thomas
 wrote:
> Probably.  The thing is, you can buy a 320CDI in an R, ML and a GL, why not
> everything else?  And the smaller diesel engines too, which I presume act
> about the same as the 320CDI.  Probably some sort of marketing thing, maybe
> some emissions testing/validation issues too.
>
> --R
>
> On 7/14/11 8:51 AM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:
>>
>> It's because someone in CA saw a fully-laden double-tandem semi
>> belching coal, and got all huffy.
>>
>> Walt
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Rich Thomas
>>   wrote:
>>
>> None of the diesels (at least the newer ones) I saw had any smoke or
>> smell,
>> the exhaust on our car had no odor at all.  One diesel Benz that was
>> parked
>> next to my car at some place had a slight vinegary odor to it, which the
>> fuel also had, but other than that was not noticeable at all.  I don't
>> quite
>> understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles, must be some
>> invisible something or other.
>>
>> --R
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: Back in the US of A

2011-07-14 Thread Jim Cathey

I don't quite understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles, 
must be some invisible something or other.


CARB doesn't like diesel cooties.  They saw a 1950's GMC bus once,
and a bulldozer, and it scared them.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A

Probably.  The thing is, you can buy a 320CDI in an R, ML and a GL, why 
not everything else?  And the smaller diesel engines too, which I 
presume act about the same as the 320CDI.  Probably some sort of 
marketing thing, maybe some emissions testing/validation issues too.


--R

On 7/14/11 8:51 AM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:

It's because someone in CA saw a fully-laden double-tandem semi
belching coal, and got all huffy.

Walt

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Rich Thomas
  wrote:

None of the diesels (at least the newer ones) I saw had any smoke or smell,
the exhaust on our car had no odor at all.  One diesel Benz that was parked
next to my car at some place had a slight vinegary odor to it, which the
fuel also had, but other than that was not noticeable at all.  I don't quite
understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles, must be some
invisible something or other.

--R



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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A

It's because someone in CA saw a fully-laden double-tandem semi
belching coal, and got all huffy.

Walt

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Rich Thomas
 wrote:
> I took a taxi ride in a Pious in Granada, it sorta makes sense in the hilly
> towns.  There were a lot of those things (hilly towns and Piouses) around.
>  I noticed when we were in it that a couple of people nearly stepped out in
> front of it as they did not hear it coming at them.  I thought that only
> happened to me when I was on my bike.
>
> None of the diesels (at least the newer ones) I saw had any smoke or smell,
> the exhaust on our car had no odor at all.  One diesel Benz that was parked
> next to my car at some place had a slight vinegary odor to it, which the
> fuel also had, but other than that was not noticeable at all.  I don't quite
> understand the Collyfawnya issues with these vehicles, must be some
> invisible something or other.
>
> --R
>
> On 7/13/11 11:29 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote:
>>
>> We just get stuck with lame ass priuses here. God forbid we Americans
>>  embrace a fuel efficient diesel.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 13, 2011, at 10:49 PM, Rich
>> Thomas  wrote:
>>
>> Did a little road trip around Spain and Portugal the last few days.
>>  Rented a Peugeot 508 diesel wagon (had 8km on it when Avis gave it to me)
>> 6spd which was a very nice car and quite roomy.  Very nice nav system and
>> graphics built in (I took a Tomtom with Iberian maps, but ended up relying
>> on the Spanish-speaking nav system we called "Peugie").  4 people and lots
>> of luggage.  2 tanks of fuel in about 9 days of driving, nearly a 1000mi I
>> think, could have been more I will have to look at the receipt.  Most every
>> car I saw was a diesel, including lots of Benzes of all sizes from A to S,
>> including some very nice CLS320CDIs and S320CDIs (drool!).  Maybe 15% were
>> gassers.  Lots of beemers and jap cars too, all diesels.  Diesel fuel was
>> the cheapest at about e1.40/ltr give or take, gas another 10-20cents more.
>>  Filling the tank was over e70 (ouch).  I got pretty good at the manual
>> tranny in some VERY challenging streets in the VERY old hill towns but at
>> one
>>  point the clutch was stinking pretty badly (FIIAR).
>>
>> I still wonder why we can't get all these great cars here in the US -- the
>> wagon was getting about 40mpg on the road (if my calculations were close) at
>> 120kph on the Autovia freeways.  I want one of those big diesel Benzes.
>>
>> ---R
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Back in the US of A