Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease OIL
Hi, Compressor oil: Menards Ed in Chicago [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I get mine at N.A.P.A. Pete -- Original message -- From: "M.Affzaal.Khan" > Oddly my power washer specifies 30 grade non detergent oil in the pump. > not quite readily available everywhere. > > mak > > > > Of course there are important differences between S- and C-rated oils, and > > of course there are applications where certain gear oils are bad. Whether > > this is stated on the label is entirely irrelevant. A bottle of brake > > fluid doesn't usually state on it that it should not be used in a > > mineral-oil-based brake system, but it shouldn't be used there, and doing > > so will destroy the system! But years and years of experience tells > > people, generically, that all brake systems take DOT3/4 brake fluid. But > > not ALL brake systems do... > > > > S rated oil which does NOT also have a C rating, particularly the new > > energy-saving oils, will indeed destroy a diesel engine. This is due to > > the reduction of additives, especially ZDDP (apparently bad for cat > > converters), the absence of will make short work of the wristpins in a > > diesel engine. Diesel-rated oils have ZDDP in much higher quantities, > > which is why people with older gasoline engines with flat tappets are now > > switching to diesel-grade oil (or using niche products like Amsoil, which > > still has high ZDDP) to prevent cam failure. > > > > Transmissions designed for GL4 oil (ie. many older manual transmissions) > > will be destroyed by GL5 oil because the higher sulfur in GL5 will attack > > yellow metals, including brass synchros and some bushings. > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease OIL
Thanks for the input . may have to replace it more frequently. mak - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease OIL > > > "M.Affzaal.Khan" wrote: >> >> Oddly my power washer specifies 30 grade non detergent oil in the >> pump. >> not quite readily available everywhere. > > The idea behind non detergent oil is that the dirt will settle out and > stay in the bottom of the sump instead of circulating through the moving > parts. In your pump example, it might be specified to reduce foaming > of the oil. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: > 10/14/2007 9:22 AM > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease OIL
I get mine at N.A.P.A. Pete -- Original message -- From: "M.Affzaal.Khan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Oddly my power washer specifies 30 grade non detergent oil in the pump. > not quite readily available everywhere. > > mak > > > > Of course there are important differences between S- and C-rated oils, and > > of course there are applications where certain gear oils are bad. Whether > > this is stated on the label is entirely irrelevant. A bottle of brake > > fluid doesn't usually state on it that it should not be used in a > > mineral-oil-based brake system, but it shouldn't be used there, and doing > > so will destroy the system! But years and years of experience tells > > people, generically, that all brake systems take DOT3/4 brake fluid. But > > not ALL brake systems do... > > > > S rated oil which does NOT also have a C rating, particularly the new > > energy-saving oils, will indeed destroy a diesel engine. This is due to > > the reduction of additives, especially ZDDP (apparently bad for cat > > converters), the absence of will make short work of the wristpins in a > > diesel engine. Diesel-rated oils have ZDDP in much higher quantities, > > which is why people with older gasoline engines with flat tappets are now > > switching to diesel-grade oil (or using niche products like Amsoil, which > > still has high ZDDP) to prevent cam failure. > > > > Transmissions designed for GL4 oil (ie. many older manual transmissions) > > will be destroyed by GL5 oil because the higher sulfur in GL5 will attack > > yellow metals, including brass synchros and some bushings. > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease OIL
"M.Affzaal.Khan" wrote: > > Oddly my power washer specifies 30 grade non detergent oil in the pump. > not quite readily available everywhere. The idea behind non detergent oil is that the dirt will settle out and stay in the bottom of the sump instead of circulating through the moving parts. In your pump example, it might be specified to reduce foaming of the oil. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease OIL
That's not an uncommon specification for a small engine transmission or compressor. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M.Affzaal.Khan Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 11:19 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease OIL Oddly my power washer specifies 30 grade non detergent oil in the pump. not quite readily available everywhere. mak > Of course there are important differences between S- and C-rated oils, and > of course there are applications where certain gear oils are bad. Whether > this is stated on the label is entirely irrelevant. A bottle of brake > fluid doesn't usually state on it that it should not be used in a > mineral-oil-based brake system, but it shouldn't be used there, and doing > so will destroy the system! But years and years of experience tells > people, generically, that all brake systems take DOT3/4 brake fluid. But > not ALL brake systems do... > > S rated oil which does NOT also have a C rating, particularly the new > energy-saving oils, will indeed destroy a diesel engine. This is due to > the reduction of additives, especially ZDDP (apparently bad for cat > converters), the absence of will make short work of the wristpins in a > diesel engine. Diesel-rated oils have ZDDP in much higher quantities, > which is why people with older gasoline engines with flat tappets are now > switching to diesel-grade oil (or using niche products like Amsoil, which > still has high ZDDP) to prevent cam failure. > > Transmissions designed for GL4 oil (ie. many older manual transmissions) > will be destroyed by GL5 oil because the higher sulfur in GL5 will attack > yellow metals, including brass synchros and some bushings. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease OIL
Oddly my power washer specifies 30 grade non detergent oil in the pump. not quite readily available everywhere. mak > Of course there are important differences between S- and C-rated oils, and > of course there are applications where certain gear oils are bad. Whether > this is stated on the label is entirely irrelevant. A bottle of brake > fluid doesn't usually state on it that it should not be used in a > mineral-oil-based brake system, but it shouldn't be used there, and doing > so will destroy the system! But years and years of experience tells > people, generically, that all brake systems take DOT3/4 brake fluid. But > not ALL brake systems do... > > S rated oil which does NOT also have a C rating, particularly the new > energy-saving oils, will indeed destroy a diesel engine. This is due to > the reduction of additives, especially ZDDP (apparently bad for cat > converters), the absence of will make short work of the wristpins in a > diesel engine. Diesel-rated oils have ZDDP in much higher quantities, > which is why people with older gasoline engines with flat tappets are now > switching to diesel-grade oil (or using niche products like Amsoil, which > still has high ZDDP) to prevent cam failure. > > Transmissions designed for GL4 oil (ie. many older manual transmissions) > will be destroyed by GL5 oil because the higher sulfur in GL5 will attack > yellow metals, including brass synchros and some bushings. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
> With Shoe-Goo and small appliance parts... If that's what it takes! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
> That's one of the reasons we are here, to disseminate knowledge > that is _not_ well-covered in the literature, aiming at keeping > our fine steeds running well into the indefinite future. > > -- Jim With Shoe-Goo and small appliance parts... Rick Knoble '85 300 CD '87 190 DT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
> Not well known to me. There are many things I have never heard of, > and that is just one of them. > > Please tell me more, as I would like to know about this situation. > > I thought that only the famous prewar metal Britishinium, used in > many British cars, was capable of rusting under six inches of oil or > of being consumed without a trace by a film of ordinary cup grease. As some on these mailing lists have found out the hard way, the syncro metal in the manual transmissions is susceptible to being attacked by one of the additives in regular gear oil that helps heavy steel gears hold up under extreme loading. Phosphorus? Anyway, lots of cars use gear oil in the tranny, but not these. They want ATF, and not just because of the lighter weight. I have not personally had the problem, nor do I want to! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] King pin grease
Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:29:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Not well known to me. There are many things I have never heard of, and that is just one of them. Please tell me more, as I would like to know about this situation. I thought that only the famous prewar metal Britishinium, used in many British cars, was capable of rusting under six inches of oil or of being consumed without a trace by a film of ordinary cup grease. __ Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > Date: 10/15/2007 11:23:53 AM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease > >" a well-known problem, that of gear oil eating mercedes manual transmissions parts" Robert Bigham [EMAIL PROTECTED] EarthLink Revolves Around You. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
Of course there are important differences between S- and C-rated oils, and of course there are applications where certain gear oils are bad. Whether this is stated on the label is entirely irrelevant. A bottle of brake fluid doesn't usually state on it that it should not be used in a mineral-oil-based brake system, but it shouldn't be used there, and doing so will destroy the system! But years and years of experience tells people, generically, that all brake systems take DOT3/4 brake fluid. But not ALL brake systems do... S rated oil which does NOT also have a C rating, particularly the new energy-saving oils, will indeed destroy a diesel engine. This is due to the reduction of additives, especially ZDDP (apparently bad for cat converters), the absence of will make short work of the wristpins in a diesel engine. Diesel-rated oils have ZDDP in much higher quantities, which is why people with older gasoline engines with flat tappets are now switching to diesel-grade oil (or using niche products like Amsoil, which still has high ZDDP) to prevent cam failure. Transmissions designed for GL4 oil (ie. many older manual transmissions) will be destroyed by GL5 oil because the higher sulfur in GL5 will attack yellow metals, including brass synchros and some bushings. The point: there often IS a particular way of doing something, or often IS a particular product that required. We are here to hear how things are properly done for an MB, not how they were once done on a GM truck or VW beetle. Making blanket recommendations to use one product over another (or to follow a particular work methodology without CHECKING the manufacturer's instructions) is irresponsible and is the opposite of this mailing list's purpose. D. >Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:40:12 -0500 >From: "Robert Bigham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease > >Hello Jim > >Gee whiz. I do not understand the idea that any use not specifically >recommended or stated as permitted or recommended on a package of >what is really a simple product with years and years of experience record >is suspect or worse. > >I think the language I quoted from the back of the grease tube, which you >obviously saw, is about as plain as it can be. Would you like for it to >say something that it does not say now? If so, what? > >I don't know whether a bottle of gear oil warns that it will eat bronze >(brass?) >syncros as found in, say, a mercedes manual transmission, and not to use >it >there, and do not care enough to research it. I think it would be >something like >trying to prove that "Pennsylvania Grade crude oil" makes superior engine >oil >compared to anyother source of crude. Pretty near, if not actually, >impossible. I have better things to do. > >Bronze (I think; they are possibly brass, but I doubt it.) synchronizers >and >(sometimes) bronze bushings are used in all synchronized manual >transmissions >I know anything about, and no doubt in many of which I know nothing. > >I believe that gear oil eating synchronizers is not a notorious problem. I >could be wrong. Do you know any different? Do you believe that some >kind of gear oil will eat bronze (brass?) syncros as found in, say, a >mercedes manual transmission? If so, why? > >They also don't say on bottles of oil rated for spark ignition engines (S >Grades) >to not use them in compression ignition engines (C grades), or the other >way >around. > >S Grades are not recommended for used in compression ignition engines >(aka diesels). I think you will find people who use them just the same, >and >even swear by their pet brand of oil. > >AFAIK, those who use S grade oil in diesel engines do not notoriously >encounter problems that arise from using the wrong oil. At least, I have >never heard anyone say that he did or knows someone who did. > >I won't use an oil not rated for compression ignition engines in a diesel. >I have >no need to take that risk, however small it may be. What kind of oil do >you use? >Is it C rated? API says it ought to be, and they are the world's leading >experts >in that kind of thing. > >I have to go. The black helicopters are hovering overhead. I fear they >have >found the location of my secret transmitter. If you do not hear from me >again, >you will know they got me. Confusion to the enemy !!! Up the Mercedes !!! >Victory or Death !!! -- David Bruckmann, Palo Alto, CA Current Reality: 1970 Citroen DS21 Pallas (170,000 km) "Goettin" 1972 Mercedes-Benz 280 SEL 4.5 (160,000 km) "Albtraum" 1976 Citroen 2CV6 (145,000 km) "Piaf" http://dolly.bruckmann.com/ 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300D (390,000 km) "Brown Betty
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
There are product warnings based on actual fact and then there are product warnings based on marketing (pushing their own "magic stuff"). I don't know which category the MB transmission warning falls into. Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 10/15/07 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= I'm just trying to point out that a well-known problem, that of gear oil eating mercedes manual transmissions parts, is not covered by the warnings on the bottle. Those warnings don't necessarily cover everything relevant, that's all I'm trying to say. In other words, if certain greases _did_ eat certain king pin bushings, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was no mention of it. King pins are, after all, obsolete technology. I am cynical enough to suppose that package warnings don't go back any further than about five years anyway. (Disclaimer: I know nothing about greases, _or_ king pin bushings. Human nature is more my specialty.) "Your ratty old bushings were eaten by our new wonder-grease? Hey, your bushings were old, not our fault. And, you cheap bustard, why don't you buy a new car anyway? What's wrong with you?" That's one of the reasons we are here, to disseminate knowledge that is _not_ well-covered in the literature, aiming at keeping our fine steeds running well into the indefinite future. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
I'm just trying to point out that a well-known problem, that of gear oil eating mercedes manual transmissions parts, is not covered by the warnings on the bottle. Those warnings don't necessarily cover everything relevant, that's all I'm trying to say. In other words, if certain greases _did_ eat certain king pin bushings, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was no mention of it. King pins are, after all, obsolete technology. I am cynical enough to suppose that package warnings don't go back any further than about five years anyway. (Disclaimer: I know nothing about greases, _or_ king pin bushings. Human nature is more my specialty.) "Your ratty old bushings were eaten by our new wonder-grease? Hey, your bushings were old, not our fault. And, you cheap bustard, why don't you buy a new car anyway? What's wrong with you?" That's one of the reasons we are here, to disseminate knowledge that is _not_ well-covered in the literature, aiming at keeping our fine steeds running well into the indefinite future. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
Hello Jim Gee whiz. I do not understand the idea that any use not specifically recommended or stated as permitted or recommended on a package of what is really a simple product with years and years of experience record is suspect or worse. I think the language I quoted from the back of the grease tube, which you obviously saw, is about as plain as it can be. Would you like for it to say something that it does not say now? If so, what? I don't know whether a bottle of gear oil warns that it will eat bronze (brass?) syncros as found in, say, a mercedes manual transmission, and not to use it there, and do not care enough to research it. I think it would be something like trying to prove that "Pennsylvania Grade crude oil" makes superior engine oil compared to anyother source of crude. Pretty near, if not actually, impossible. I have better things to do. Bronze (I think; they are possibly brass, but I doubt it.) synchronizers and (sometimes) bronze bushings are used in all synchronized manual transmissions I know anything about, and no doubt in many of which I know nothing. I believe that gear oil eating synchronizers is not a notorious problem. I could be wrong. Do you know any different? Do you believe that some kind of gear oil will eat bronze (brass?) syncros as found in, say, a mercedes manual transmission? If so, why? They also don't say on bottles of oil rated for spark ignition engines (S Grades) to not use them in compression ignition engines (C grades), or the other way around. S Grades are not recommended for used in compression ignition engines (aka diesels). I think you will find people who use them just the same, and even swear by their pet brand of oil. AFAIK, those who use S grade oil in diesel engines do not notoriously encounter problems that arise from using the wrong oil. At least, I have never heard anyone say that he did or knows someone who did. I won't use an oil not rated for compression ignition engines in a diesel. I have no need to take that risk, however small it may be. What kind of oil do you use? Is it C rated? API says it ought to be, and they are the world's leading experts in that kind of thing. I have to go. The black helicopters are hovering overhead. I fear they have found the location of my secret transmitter. If you do not hear from me again, you will know they got me. Confusion to the enemy !!! Up the Mercedes !!! Victory or Death !!! > [Original Message] > From: Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Mercedes Discussion List > Date: 10/15/2007 9:34:40 AM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease > > > I put it to you that if the above language were not true, and in truth > > and > > fact > > molybdenum disulfide damaged copper and/or tin alloys, Wal~Mart would > > become the happy hunting ground for the class action lawsuit gang on > > those > > grounds alone. So would all the other grease and oil manufacturers. > > So does a bottle of gear oil warn that it will eat bronze (brass?) > syncros as found in, say, a mercedes manual transmission, and not > to use it there? > > They'll tell you not to drink it, sure, but more _reasonable_ uses > that are to be avoided don't seem to be there as warnings on the > product itself. > > -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
> I put it to you that if the above language were not true, and in truth > and > fact > molybdenum disulfide damaged copper and/or tin alloys, Wal~Mart would > become the happy hunting ground for the class action lawsuit gang on > those > grounds alone. So would all the other grease and oil manufacturers. So does a bottle of gear oil warn that it will eat bronze (brass?) syncros as found in, say, a mercedes manual transmission, and not to use it there? They'll tell you not to drink it, sure, but more _reasonable_ uses that are to be avoided don't seem to be there as warnings on the product itself. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
Hello Mitch Kingpin bushings are almost always bronze, which has much greater allowable bearing loading than brass or babbitt. Some are bronze with plastic liners or inserts, if you can believe that. I believe it because I saw the bushings. I might not believe it if I hadn't seen them. Whatever you do is OK. Why are you "under the impression that molybdenum disulphide damaged copper alloy (brass, bronze, babbit) bearing surfaces?" I do not doubt your good faith belief. I just do not believe it is correct or founded on the facts. FWIW, babbitt contains only a very small percentage or perhaps only traces of copper, IIRC. True Babbitt (named for its inventor) is a largely tin alloy. There are several white metal bearing alloys. The cheaper ones (all are high priced) contain lots of lead and are unsuitable for heavy or pounding loads. The good stuff is largely tin. So called Nickel Babbitt is I think actually an old brand that contains traces of nickel. I believe you will find the grease manufacturers recommending their moly grease for general use including just about everything. I can tell you that I use it for everything except white grease applications, and plenty of others do the same. So far it has worked fine for me. Here is what a tube of moly grease that I bought at Wal~Mart, home of low prices, says on the tube: "Provides protection with molybdenum disulfide to establish a superior film strength on working surfaces and withstands heavy loads, water attack and shock loads. Contains rust and oxidation inhibitors and extreme pressure additives for long lubrication life. Use for automotive, industrial, mining and construction ball and roller bearings, bushings, slides, chassis points, ball joints, U-joints, backing plates, wheel bearings and more. Especially suited for the most severe multi-purpose service in construction, manufacturing, farming and fleet industries. Also will not turn to gold or silver or draw flies." Wait - I confess! I just made up that last. It may turn to gold or silver or draw flies if used on Mercedes kingpins. Darn! If you go to Chevron, Mystik, or any of the other grease and oil manufacturers, I am quite sure you will find the same sort of language, and you will not find language to the effect that molybdenum disulfide damages copper and/or tin alloys. I put it to you that if the above language were not true, and in truth and fact molybdenum disulfide damaged copper and/or tin alloys, Wal~Mart would become the happy hunting ground for the class action lawsuit gang on those grounds alone. So would all the other grease and oil manufacturers. Who in his right mind would concoct such a situation? I suppose you can put me down as being in favor of molybdenum disulfide grease. I think the facts are on that side. Others may believe as they wish. Robert, enabler of ed Mitch Haley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > Date: 10/14/2007 4:07:48 PM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease > > I was under the impression that molybdenum disulphide damaged > copper alloy (brass, bronze, babbit) bearing surfaces. > What are the kingpin bushings made of? > > Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
I was under the impression that molybdenum disulphide damaged copper alloy (brass, bronze, babbit) bearing surfaces. What are the kingpin bushings made of? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
I'm not sure the auto parts stores around here carry chassis grease for general use that does not contain molybdenum disulfide. I think the government's GAA (Grease, Automotive and Artillery) is moly grease. . Long fibered wheel bearing grease in auto parts stoes, yes. But the moly grease sustitutes perfectly well on packed wheel bearings. I don't think you will find auto manufacturers using anything but moly grease on chassis, particularly on booted joints. White grease has its own niche. For my own amazement, please tell me what you use for chassis grease. I use moly grease for everything except white grease applications. I have yet to see it get dry and hard like the brown stuff can. What is your experience? Loren Faeth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > Date: 10/14/2007 11:55:12 AM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease > > but almost everyone does use something else in my observation. A lot > of lithium type stuff that gets hard. > > At 05:03 AM 10/14/2007, you wrote: > Molybdenum disulfide is an excellent lubricant in its own right. > I understand secondhand that moly grease "will not mix" with > other greases. In most cases this makes no difference. > > Ford has specified it for greased chassis joints since the early > 1960's. The real secret to tie rod ends and similar lasting forever > is the rubber boots which keep the moly grease in and the water > and gritters out, a la Mercedes 123 and VW Rabbits. > > There is little reason to use other than moly grease in greased > chassis joints. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
but almost everyone does use something else in my observation. A lot of lithium type stuff that gets hard. At 05:03 AM 10/14/2007, you wrote: >Molybdenum disulfide is an excellent lubricant in its own right. >I understand secondhand that moly grease "will not mix" with >other greases. In most cases this makes no difference. > >Ford has specified it for greased chassis joints since the early >1960's. The real secret to tie rod ends and similar lasting forever >is the rubber boots which keep the moly grease in and the water >and gritters out, a la Mercedes 123 and VW Rabbits. > >There is little reason to use other than moly grease in greased >chassis joints. > >Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:15:02 +0500 >"M.Affzaal.Khan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote >Subject: [MBZ] King pin Grease > >Surely the correct type of grease would make a difference to the longevity >of the bushes. >Would molybdenum grease among the recommendations for greasing the >suspension nipples? > >mak > > > > > >___ >http://www.okiebenz.com >For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
Molybdenum disulfide is an excellent lubricant in its own right. I understand secondhand that moly grease "will not mix" with other greases. In most cases this makes no difference. Ford has specified it for greased chassis joints since the early 1960's. The real secret to tie rod ends and similar lasting forever is the rubber boots which keep the moly grease in and the water and gritters out, a la Mercedes 123 and VW Rabbits. There is little reason to use other than moly grease in greased chassis joints. Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:15:02 +0500 "M.Affzaal.Khan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote Subject: [MBZ] King pin Grease Surely the correct type of grease would make a difference to the longevity of the bushes. Would molybdenum grease among the recommendations for greasing the suspension nipples? mak ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
I believe the subject is a 108. It has front Disk brakes. All MBs since 1963 had front wheel disk brakes. All since 1968 have had 4 wheel disks. Some models had disks earlier. I have used Molykote BR-2 grease in 110/111 kingpins and pivots and all grease points for years. It is great. Puts that layer of molybdenum disulfide on everything to slow wear. Lasts forever, almost and does not harden. Works for assembly too. Also makes a decent anti-seize lube. At 11:20 PM 10/13/2007, you wrote: >Any modern, quality grease will do fine as you don't have the heat soak >problems you have with disk brake wheel bearings, but it will not hurt to >use the same high temperature grease you use for wheel bearings. > >Thanks, >Tom Hargrave >www.kegkits.com >256-656-1924 > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >On Behalf Of M.Affzaal.Khan >Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 10:15 PM >To: Mercedes Discussion List >Subject: [MBZ] King pin Grease > >Surely the correct type of grease would make a difference to the longevity >of the bushes. > Would molybdenum grease among the recommendations for greasing the >suspension nipples? > >mak >- Original Message - >From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 6:25 AM >Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin installation > > > > OK, then look at the following three pictures. > > > > Picture1 is of the page that includes the specs. Also included on the page > > is a drawing of the top & bottom bolt with "required play for receiving > > lubricant". > > http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture1.jpg > > > > Picture2 is of the page that shows the entire assembly, including the 2 > > bolts (item 2 in drawing on right) with "required play for receiving > > lubricant". > > Picture2 also contains the procedure for reaming the kingpin bushings to > > size. > > http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture2.jpg > > > > > > Picture3 shows the threaded bolt with "required play for receiving > > lubricant" in greater detail (item 8). The groove that's cut in the center > > is used to distribute the grease from the grease fitting all the way > > around > > the threaded bolt with "required play for receiving lubricant" so that the > > grease can easily penetrate the threads. > > http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture3.jpg > > > > Any other questions? I have one of these assemblies, new, in my garage. Do > > you want me to disassemble it, measure it & confirm that it really does > > have > > some free play? > > > > Thanks, > > Tom Hargrave > > www.kegkits.com > > 256-656-1924 > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Robert Bigham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:03 PM > > To: Tom Hargrave; mercedes@okiebenz.com > > Subject: RE: RE: King pin installation > > > > I continue to reject the idea that bolts holding a front > > suspension together, like holding a steering arm to a spindle, > > have slop and actually work back and forth in use, and this > > is normal or expected. Come on. > > > > I could be convinced by a drawing showning the parts > > and the clearance specified for the bolts to work back and > > forth. > > > > To me, it defies common sense to assert that there is slop, > > and further, that front ends do not come apart because the > > bolts that are intentionally loose on installation do not > > eventually complete their loosening and fall out, or > > alternatively the bolts do not wear out because of the slop > > and consequent back and forth motion. > > > > Perhaps they do on Planet Zork. I think not on Earth, third > > rock from the sun. > > > > I will make an exception for things like spring shackles, > > where the pins are generally not bottomed and can work > > backward and forward. Spring shackle bolts will eventually > > wear out.l although they will last a very long time if kept greased. > > > > It is not necessary that there be slop and movement between > > the male and female parts of threads where a bolt is tight for > > grease to travel down threads. > > > > Each part of the threads, that is, the male part and female part, is > > a helix, and grease will travel down the part of the larger female > > helix in the that contains the clearance between the two helices. > > > > Or is that "helixes" ? > > > > All that is m
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
Any modern, quality grease will do fine as you don't have the heat soak problems you have with disk brake wheel bearings, but it will not hurt to use the same high temperature grease you use for wheel bearings. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M.Affzaal.Khan Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 10:15 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] King pin Grease Surely the correct type of grease would make a difference to the longevity of the bushes. Would molybdenum grease among the recommendations for greasing the suspension nipples? mak - Original Message - From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin installation > OK, then look at the following three pictures. > > Picture1 is of the page that includes the specs. Also included on the page > is a drawing of the top & bottom bolt with "required play for receiving > lubricant". > http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture1.jpg > > Picture2 is of the page that shows the entire assembly, including the 2 > bolts (item 2 in drawing on right) with "required play for receiving > lubricant". > Picture2 also contains the procedure for reaming the kingpin bushings to > size. > http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture2.jpg > > > Picture3 shows the threaded bolt with "required play for receiving > lubricant" in greater detail (item 8). The groove that's cut in the center > is used to distribute the grease from the grease fitting all the way > around > the threaded bolt with "required play for receiving lubricant" so that the > grease can easily penetrate the threads. > http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture3.jpg > > Any other questions? I have one of these assemblies, new, in my garage. Do > you want me to disassemble it, measure it & confirm that it really does > have > some free play? > > Thanks, > Tom Hargrave > www.kegkits.com > 256-656-1924 > > > -Original Message- > From: Robert Bigham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:03 PM > To: Tom Hargrave; mercedes@okiebenz.com > Subject: RE: RE: King pin installation > > I continue to reject the idea that bolts holding a front > suspension together, like holding a steering arm to a spindle, > have slop and actually work back and forth in use, and this > is normal or expected. Come on. > > I could be convinced by a drawing showning the parts > and the clearance specified for the bolts to work back and > forth. > > To me, it defies common sense to assert that there is slop, > and further, that front ends do not come apart because the > bolts that are intentionally loose on installation do not > eventually complete their loosening and fall out, or > alternatively the bolts do not wear out because of the slop > and consequent back and forth motion. > > Perhaps they do on Planet Zork. I think not on Earth, third > rock from the sun. > > I will make an exception for things like spring shackles, > where the pins are generally not bottomed and can work > backward and forward. Spring shackle bolts will eventually > wear out.l although they will last a very long time if kept greased. > > It is not necessary that there be slop and movement between > the male and female parts of threads where a bolt is tight for > grease to travel down threads. > > Each part of the threads, that is, the male part and female part, is > a helix, and grease will travel down the part of the larger female > helix in the that contains the clearance between the two helices. > > Or is that "helixes" ? > > All that is mechanically necessary for grease to travel down > threads is that the male and female parts be dimensioned such > that they do not add up to a solid body. Ordinary 60 degree > treads, acme, and square threads are dimensioned to not add > up to a solid body. Sensitive measurements will show threaded > bolts will move forward and backward (or up and down, if one > prefers) in threaded holes when not tightened or otherwise > bottomed. > > It would also be possible to provide a grease channel by a > broached slot much like a keyway cut longitudinally across > the female part of the threads. Old South Bend lathes have > slots like that for oil holding felts on some plain bearings, which > are admittedly not threaded. > > A common situation which all have seen that illustrates that > grease can travel along threads that contain a tightly made up > bolt down is the ability of penetrating oil to eventually reach > the bottom of threads in a
[MBZ] King pin Grease
Surely the correct type of grease would make a difference to the longevity of the bushes. Would molybdenum grease among the recommendations for greasing the suspension nipples? mak - Original Message - From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin installation > OK, then look at the following three pictures. > > Picture1 is of the page that includes the specs. Also included on the page > is a drawing of the top & bottom bolt with "required play for receiving > lubricant". > http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture1.jpg > > Picture2 is of the page that shows the entire assembly, including the 2 > bolts (item 2 in drawing on right) with "required play for receiving > lubricant". > Picture2 also contains the procedure for reaming the kingpin bushings to > size. > http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture2.jpg > > > Picture3 shows the threaded bolt with "required play for receiving > lubricant" in greater detail (item 8). The groove that's cut in the center > is used to distribute the grease from the grease fitting all the way > around > the threaded bolt with "required play for receiving lubricant" so that the > grease can easily penetrate the threads. > http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture3.jpg > > Any other questions? I have one of these assemblies, new, in my garage. Do > you want me to disassemble it, measure it & confirm that it really does > have > some free play? > > Thanks, > Tom Hargrave > www.kegkits.com > 256-656-1924 > > > -Original Message- > From: Robert Bigham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:03 PM > To: Tom Hargrave; mercedes@okiebenz.com > Subject: RE: RE: King pin installation > > I continue to reject the idea that bolts holding a front > suspension together, like holding a steering arm to a spindle, > have slop and actually work back and forth in use, and this > is normal or expected. Come on. > > I could be convinced by a drawing showning the parts > and the clearance specified for the bolts to work back and > forth. > > To me, it defies common sense to assert that there is slop, > and further, that front ends do not come apart because the > bolts that are intentionally loose on installation do not > eventually complete their loosening and fall out, or > alternatively the bolts do not wear out because of the slop > and consequent back and forth motion. > > Perhaps they do on Planet Zork. I think not on Earth, third > rock from the sun. > > I will make an exception for things like spring shackles, > where the pins are generally not bottomed and can work > backward and forward. Spring shackle bolts will eventually > wear out.l although they will last a very long time if kept greased. > > It is not necessary that there be slop and movement between > the male and female parts of threads where a bolt is tight for > grease to travel down threads. > > Each part of the threads, that is, the male part and female part, is > a helix, and grease will travel down the part of the larger female > helix in the that contains the clearance between the two helices. > > Or is that "helixes" ? > > All that is mechanically necessary for grease to travel down > threads is that the male and female parts be dimensioned such > that they do not add up to a solid body. Ordinary 60 degree > treads, acme, and square threads are dimensioned to not add > up to a solid body. Sensitive measurements will show threaded > bolts will move forward and backward (or up and down, if one > prefers) in threaded holes when not tightened or otherwise > bottomed. > > It would also be possible to provide a grease channel by a > broached slot much like a keyway cut longitudinally across > the female part of the threads. Old South Bend lathes have > slots like that for oil holding felts on some plain bearings, which > are admittedly not threaded. > > A common situation which all have seen that illustrates that > grease can travel along threads that contain a tightly made up > bolt down is the ability of penetrating oil to eventually reach > the bottom of threads in a hole which contains a bolt that > does not want out, and is encouraged to release itself by > application of penetrating oil, with or without added heat. > > If the two parts add up to a solid body, or worse, if they > interfere, which can happen when bolts and nuts are > galvanized and threading does not allow for the thickness > of galvanizing, it will be a muscle building operation or > worse to run the threads on each other. I learned that > the hard way. > > The more they differ from a solid body in sum, the greater > ease with which grease can penetrate. A special bolt could > easily have a special thread with standard pitch with thinner > than standard threads at the root. We can cut chips almost > any way we wish. > > Please think about what you are proposing, and see if you > really want your front supension, or your friend's
