Re: [MBZ] Radiator flushing
Do a search on ebay too if you need citric acid. I guess people use it in bubble baths and such. I would not know I am married... - Original Message - From: "Jim Cathey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 1:45 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Radiator flushing component in commercial cleaning solutions. I buy the solid citric acid in 10 lb. buckets from http://www.chemistrystore.com/ . Certainly not the least expensive after you add in the shipping, but the easiest. I bought mine at a local (commercial) baking supply store. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Radiator flushing
Conventional wisdom is true on this one but its still odd... When the coolant is cold the car will be okay with no thermostat. Once its warmed up it'll over heat just like a stuck thermostat. Wierd but true. -Curt Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:02:42 -0700 From: Craig McCluskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [MBZ] Radiator flushing To: mercedes Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Seems to be the project of the day ... Anyway, I've set about to use the 5 pounds of citric acid I purchase awhile back and have been de-oiling and descaling the cooling system of our 617.912 W123. Yesterday, I drained the antifreeze, put in an ond thermostat that didn't close entirely and filled with water and two cups of Cascasde dishwasher detergent. By blocking the radiator with cardboard, I was able to bring the temp up to 100 C, let it run awhile -- noticing the flow through the fill -- and drain. Repeated with clean water to get the detergent out. Today, I put in 4.5 cups (at 120 g/cup) of citric acid and water and ran it. I found out that citric acid kills thermostats, because it did NOT open and I did not see coolant flow throught the fill. Hmmm ... So I went to force the thermostat permanently open, ala Jim Cathey and his .38 cartridge brass, but I didn't have any cartridge brass. I then reread the first couple of paragraphs of the de-oiling and descaling procedure in the engine manual. Guess what: It says to REMOVE the thermostat. I looked in vain for the section that lists the "shop made tool" of a forced-open thermostat I know I've seen somewhere. I couldn't find it. So, in order to turn the car around, I put the thermostat housing back on without the thermostat (but with the gasket). Guess what: There IS coolant flow through the radiator with the thermostat removed. Almost as much as when I had the thermostat in yesterday. And certainly a whole bunch more than with the dead thermostat in place. So, the conventional wisdom seems to have been thrown out the window. I was really suprised to read the engine manual saying to REMOVE the thermostat, but I'll still try to generate a forced-open thermostat. Craig - Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Oct 30 14:13:41 2006 Received: from postal.windwireless.net ([199.164.167.12] helo=windwireless.net) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GeXtV-0003AX-5n for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:13:41 + Received: from windwireless.net (unverified [206.63.94.197]) by windwireless.net (WindPostal) with ESMTP id 388306 for multiple; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 06:17:26 -0800 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 06:13:38 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mercedes Discussion List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com r=-412260344 X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip) X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 34, in=195, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 206.63.94.197 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Next issue to sort out on rescued 79 240D X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: <http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Archive: List-Post: <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> List-Help: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Subscribe: <http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:13:41 - > So I was driving the 240D the other night and needed to turn on the > defroster (it has manual controls) and I detected the sweet smell of > coolant. I can't recall, but I seem to remember that the heater core > for > W123's is in a bad place, a place that's really hard to get to. The > coolant level hasn't plummeted since we've been driving the car so I'm > guessing the leak is small / minor. Sometimes you get lucky, and the leak is at the hose connections to the core. On some models gravity works to siphon small leaks inside where they can drip into the works. I don't know if the 123 is built this way, however. Worth looking on the firewall to see if there are any leaks there where the rubber meets the hard lines coming through the firewall. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Radiator flushing
component in commercial cleaning solutions. I buy the solid citric acid in 10 lb. buckets from http://www.chemistrystore.com/ . Certainly not the least expensive after you add in the shipping, but the easiest. I bought mine at a local (commercial) baking supply store. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Radiator flushing
Great! I was going to do that -- you beat me to it. Nine half-cups gives 1080 g, which is quite close to the 1100 grams my 11 liter cooling system would take. Now everyone else knows a half-cup of citric acid is 120 grams and can scoop out accordingly. Craig -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives." Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Radiator flushing
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:32:00 -0500 "OK Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Decalcification calls for 100grams per liter - > 100 grams is 3.5 oz. (dry). A liter is approx. a quart. So, for 2 > gallons of citric acid solution, I'd dissolve 2 pounds of citric acid > in 2 gallons. It should be close enough. I happened to have a half-cup measure at hand as well as a gram scale, so I weighed a half-cup of the powder => 120 grams. Nine half-cups gives 1080 g, which is quite close to the 1100 grams my 11 liter cooling system would take. Now everyone else knows a half-cup of citric acid is 120 grams and can scoop out accordingly. Craig
Re: [MBZ] Radiator flushing
You want a 10% solution (100 grams acid to 1000 grams (1 liter) water)-- read the label, find out what you have, and dilute to a resulting 10%. I've never run across liquid citric acid, except as a component in commercial cleaning solutions. I buy the solid citric acid in 10 lb. buckets from http://www.chemistrystore.com/ . Certainly not the least expensive after you add in the shipping, but the easiest. On 10/29/06, Luther Gulseth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: what about liquid citric acid?? -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives." Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Radiator flushing
what about liquid citric acid?? On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 20:32:00 -0600, OK Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Decalcification calls for 100grams per liter - > 100 grams is 3.5 oz. (dry). A liter is approx. a quart. So, for 2 > gallons of citric acid solution, I'd dissolve 2 pounds of citric acid > in 2 gallons. It should be close enough. > > On 10/29/06, Craig McCluskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:02:42 -0700 Craig McCluskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >> > Today, I put in 4.5 cups (at 120 g/cup) of citric acid >> >> Oops. Make that 120 g/one-half cup (240 g/cup). >> > -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work '85 300D (280,176) parts car
Re: [MBZ] Radiator flushing
Decalcification calls for 100grams per liter - 100 grams is 3.5 oz. (dry). A liter is approx. a quart. So, for 2 gallons of citric acid solution, I'd dissolve 2 pounds of citric acid in 2 gallons. It should be close enough. On 10/29/06, Craig McCluskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:02:42 -0700 Craig McCluskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Today, I put in 4.5 cups (at 120 g/cup) of citric acid Oops. Make that 120 g/one-half cup (240 g/cup). -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives." Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Radiator flushing
Well - it's not the first time that conventional wisdom has been shown to be wrong --- Thanks for the information! FWIW - I just looked up the coolant system cleaning instructions for 117, 617, and 603 engines - all in the 20-015 section of the CD. Only the 603 calls for the special tool to replace the t-stat during the procedure. Both the 117 and 617 instructions only require that you remove the t-stat, replace the housing, and get to work. So, the conventional wisdom seems to have been thrown out the window. I was really suprised to read the engine manual saying to REMOVE the thermostat, but I'll still try to generate a forced-open thermostat. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives." Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Radiator flushing
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:02:42 -0700 Craig McCluskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Today, I put in 4.5 cups (at 120 g/cup) of citric acid Oops. Make that 120 g/one-half cup (240 g/cup). Craig
[MBZ] Radiator flushing
Seems to be the project of the day ... Anyway, I've set about to use the 5 pounds of citric acid I purchase awhile back and have been de-oiling and descaling the cooling system of our 617.912 W123. Yesterday, I drained the antifreeze, put in an ond thermostat that didn't close entirely and filled with water and two cups of Cascasde dishwasher detergent. By blocking the radiator with cardboard, I was able to bring the temp up to 100 C, let it run awhile -- noticing the flow through the fill -- and drain. Repeated with clean water to get the detergent out. Today, I put in 4.5 cups (at 120 g/cup) of citric acid and water and ran it. I found out that citric acid kills thermostats, because it did NOT open and I did not see coolant flow throught the fill. Hmmm ... So I went to force the thermostat permanently open, ala Jim Cathey and his .38 cartridge brass, but I didn't have any cartridge brass. I then reread the first couple of paragraphs of the de-oiling and descaling procedure in the engine manual. Guess what: It says to REMOVE the thermostat. I looked in vain for the section that lists the "shop made tool" of a forced-open thermostat I know I've seen somewhere. I couldn't find it. So, in order to turn the car around, I put the thermostat housing back on without the thermostat (but with the gasket). Guess what: There IS coolant flow through the radiator with the thermostat removed. Almost as much as when I had the thermostat in yesterday. And certainly a whole bunch more than with the dead thermostat in place. So, the conventional wisdom seems to have been thrown out the window. I was really suprised to read the engine manual saying to REMOVE the thermostat, but I'll still try to generate a forced-open thermostat. Craig
