Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Does that school of thought like to employ designs that encourage 
"self-correcting mistakes"?  For example, child rolls up power window, pinches 
fingers, "Waah!!!".  Child learns (self-corrects) not to pinch fingers in 
power windows, and that self-correcting remains in force until death bed.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On July 13, 2016 11:48:41 AM EDT, Joel Cairo via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>I like the Borg School of Engineering solution better
>
>--JC
>
>
>On 7/13/16 11:47 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> As I understand it, yes.  It’s a safety thing.
>>
>> For example, if someone’s hand or fingers were in the window opening,
>if you attempt to raise the window it will reverse automatically when
>it encounters resistance.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>
>

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Named after Bjorn Borg, tennis star.  He had a thing about roll up car
windows.

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 11:48:41 -0400 Joel Cairo via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > I like the Borg School of Engineering solution better
>
> Borg School of Engineering?
>
>
> Craig
>
> ___
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 11:48:41 -0400 Joel Cairo via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I like the Borg School of Engineering solution better

Borg School of Engineering?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

I like the Borg School of Engineering solution better

--JC


On 7/13/16 11:47 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

As I understand it, yes.  It’s a safety thing.

For example, if someone’s hand or fingers were in the window opening, if you 
attempt to raise the window it will reverse automatically when it encounters 
resistance.

Dan



On Jul 13, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:

So it is the "auto up/down and reversing functions" that make this
necessary.

But to repeat Rich's question, why do we need all this?

What do the "auto up/down and reversing functions" do and why would
anyone want them?


Craig


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

As I understand it, yes.  It’s a safety thing.

For example, if someone’s hand or fingers were in the window opening, if you 
attempt to raise the window it will reverse automatically when it encounters 
resistance.

Dan


> On Jul 13, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Craig via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> So it is the "auto up/down and reversing functions" that make this
> necessary.
> 
> But to repeat Rich's question, why do we need all this?
> 
> What do the "auto up/down and reversing functions" do and why would
> anyone want them?
> 
> 
> Craig


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

If you can't handle the idea of getting into a car that has the windows closed 
when its hot out you'd need the windows to automatically roll down.
I don't understand the kind of people that can't simply roll down the windows 
for themselves...
-Curt

  From: Craig via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Craig <diese...@pisquared.net>
 Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 11:31 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open
   
On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 10:30:36 -0400 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> It’s a function of the “convenience module” in later models, from the
> W140 on.
> 
> The convenience module controls window operation and some other minor
> functions, of which I can’t recall.  Since it doesn’t have non-volatile
> memory if power is lost to the module it needs the windows to be
> “synced” so that it can properly control them.  The module needs to
> know where the windows are position-wise as well as what direction
> they’re moving.  This is to manage the auto up/down and reversing
> functions.

So it is the "auto up/down and reversing functions" that make this
necessary.

But to repeat Rich's question, why do we need all this?

What do the "auto up/down and reversing functions" do and why would
anyone want them?


Craig


> > On Jul 13, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes
> > <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I have been reading this stuff, and the very concept of "windows out
> > of sync" is both bizarre and vaguely disturbing.  At what point in
> > the advance of western civilization did the need for windows to be
> > "in sync" become a compelling technological goal? What does it get
> > us?  What problem does it solve?  What good does it do for all the
> > starving kids in China?

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 10:30:36 -0400 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
 wrote:

> It’s a function of the “convenience module” in later models, from the
> W140 on.
> 
> The convenience module controls window operation and some other minor
> functions, of which I can’t recall.  Since it doesn’t have non-volatile
> memory if power is lost to the module it needs the windows to be
> “synced” so that it can properly control them.  The module needs to
> know where the windows are position-wise as well as what direction
> they’re moving.  This is to manage the auto up/down and reversing
> functions.

So it is the "auto up/down and reversing functions" that make this
necessary.

But to repeat Rich's question, why do we need all this?

What do the "auto up/down and reversing functions" do and why would
anyone want them?


Craig


> > On Jul 13, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > I have been reading this stuff, and the very concept of "windows out
> > of sync" is both bizarre and vaguely disturbing.  At what point in
> > the advance of western civilization did the need for windows to be
> > "in sync" become a compelling technological goal? What does it get
> > us?  What problem does it solve?  What good does it do for all the
> > starving kids in China?

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[WILTON via Mercedes]

At near the same point as the "need" to cut YUUUGE holes in perfectly good 
steel roofs or "wear" 24's, 26''s or 28's with minimal rubber on 'em.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Joel Cairo via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

To: <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "Joel Cairo" <buggeredbenzm...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open


I have been reading this stuff, and the very concept of "windows out of 
sync" is both bizarre and vaguely disturbing.  At what point in the advance 
of western civilization did the need for windows to be "in sync" become a 
compelling technological goal? What does it get us?  What problem does it 
solve?  What good does it do for all the starving kids in China?


--JC


On 7/13/16 10:12 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Nothing odd about this.

As Kaleb mentioned, your window(s) is/are out of sync.  You need to 
re-sync them and all should be well.


Have you disconnected the battery?  That will cause the windows to get 
out of sync.


Dan


On Jul 13, 2016, at 12:08 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


I was able to get it to go up by poking and releasing the switch in the 
up
position about 30 times. If I tried holding it down, it wouldn't move. 
Odd.


Bob R



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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

It’s a function of the “convenience module” in later models, from the W140 on.

The convenience module controls window operation and some other minor 
functions, of which I can’t recall.  Since it doesn’t have non-volatile memory 
if power is lost to the module it needs the windows to be “synced” so that it 
can properly control them.  The module needs to know where the windows are 
position-wise as well as what direction they’re moving.  This is to manage the 
auto up/down and reversing functions.

The process is typically to run the window all the way up and hold the button 
in for ten seconds.  Repeat for the down position, too.  Once this is done for 
each window it should work normally.  Until the window is synced it will only 
move a short distance with each press of the button.  That’s what Bob is 
experiencing right now.

Dan


> On Jul 13, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I have been reading this stuff, and the very concept of "windows out of sync" 
> is both bizarre and vaguely disturbing.  At what point in the advance of 
> western civilization did the need for windows to be "in sync" become a 
> compelling technological goal? What does it get us?  What problem does it 
> solve?  What good does it do for all the starving kids in China?
> 
> --JC
> 
> 
> On 7/13/16 10:12 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> Nothing odd about this.
>> 
>> As Kaleb mentioned, your window(s) is/are out of sync.  You need to re-sync 
>> them and all should be well.
>> 
>> Have you disconnected the battery?  That will cause the windows to get out 
>> of sync.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 13, 2016, at 12:08 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I was able to get it to go up by poking and releasing the switch in the up
>>> position about 30 times. If I tried holding it down, it wouldn't move. Odd.
>>> 
>>> Bob R
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

I have been reading this stuff, and the very concept of "windows out of 
sync" is both bizarre and vaguely disturbing.  At what point in the 
advance of western civilization did the need for windows to be "in sync" 
become a compelling technological goal? What does it get us?  What 
problem does it solve?  What good does it do for all the starving kids 
in China?


--JC


On 7/13/16 10:12 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Nothing odd about this.

As Kaleb mentioned, your window(s) is/are out of sync.  You need to re-sync 
them and all should be well.

Have you disconnected the battery?  That will cause the windows to get out of 
sync.

Dan



On Jul 13, 2016, at 12:08 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
wrote:

I was able to get it to go up by poking and releasing the switch in the up
position about 30 times. If I tried holding it down, it wouldn't move. Odd.

Bob R



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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Nothing odd about this.

As Kaleb mentioned, your window(s) is/are out of sync.  You need to re-sync 
them and all should be well.

Have you disconnected the battery?  That will cause the windows to get out of 
sync.

Dan


> On Jul 13, 2016, at 12:08 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was able to get it to go up by poking and releasing the switch in the up
> position about 30 times. If I tried holding it down, it wouldn't move. Odd.
> 
> Bob R
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

As previously mentioned that is because it is out of sync

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 12, 2016, at 11:08 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was able to get it to go up by poking and releasing the switch in the up
> position about 30 times. If I tried holding it down, it wouldn't move. Odd.
> 
> Bob R
>> On Jul 11, 2016 6:29 PM, "Bob Rentfro"  wrote:
>> 
>> I'll do the resetting when I get home. And I haven't gotten a new key yet.
>> Maybe next week. It hadn't done that randomness lately.
>> 
>> Bob R
>> On Jul 11, 2016 5:29 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> If the regulator was bad you would hear it running and not doing
>>> anything. Sounds like the switch has gotten out of sync.  I believe you
>>> roll it down all the way and hold the button for a few seconds, then roll
>>> it up all the say and hold the switch for a few seconds again to sync it
>>> back up.  So did the new key fix the starting issue?
>>> 
 On 7/11/2016 7:19 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
 
 When I unlock my w210 with the smart key, I always hold it long enough to
 lower the windows to let some of the hell-fire heat out before getting
 in.
 Having just done that , I took off and the air started blowing ice cold.
 I
 went to raise the windows from the switches on the console and the
 passenger's rear window will not go up. When cycling the switch on the
 console, it makes no noise pressing up, klunks a bit when you press down.
 The door switch acts the same.
 So, what do I go after? And, how do I get the window up in the meantime
 so
 I don't have to have the 112° pouring in tomorrow?
 
 Bob R
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 21:08:14 -0700 Bob Rentfro via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I was able to get it to go up by poking and releasing the switch in the
> up position about 30 times. If I tried holding it down, it wouldn't
> move. Odd.

Indeed.

And from others' comments, I suspect it's not a case like the W123
flasher switch where crud and corrosion are overcome by actuating it
about a billion times.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

I was able to get it to go up by poking and releasing the switch in the up
position about 30 times. If I tried holding it down, it wouldn't move. Odd.

Bob R
On Jul 11, 2016 6:29 PM, "Bob Rentfro"  wrote:

> I'll do the resetting when I get home. And I haven't gotten a new key yet.
> Maybe next week. It hadn't done that randomness lately.
>
> Bob R
> On Jul 11, 2016 5:29 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> If the regulator was bad you would hear it running and not doing
>> anything. Sounds like the switch has gotten out of sync.  I believe you
>> roll it down all the way and hold the button for a few seconds, then roll
>> it up all the say and hold the switch for a few seconds again to sync it
>> back up.  So did the new key fix the starting issue?
>>
>> On 7/11/2016 7:19 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
>>
>>> When I unlock my w210 with the smart key, I always hold it long enough to
>>> lower the windows to let some of the hell-fire heat out before getting
>>> in.
>>> Having just done that , I took off and the air started blowing ice cold.
>>> I
>>> went to raise the windows from the switches on the console and the
>>> passenger's rear window will not go up. When cycling the switch on the
>>> console, it makes no noise pressing up, klunks a bit when you press down.
>>> The door switch acts the same.
>>> So, what do I go after? And, how do I get the window up in the meantime
>>> so
>>> I don't have to have the 112° pouring in tomorrow?
>>>
>>> Bob R
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
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>>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

I'll do the resetting when I get home. And I haven't gotten a new key yet.
Maybe next week. It hadn't done that randomness lately.

Bob R
On Jul 11, 2016 5:29 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If the regulator was bad you would hear it running and not doing anything.
> Sounds like the switch has gotten out of sync.  I believe you roll it down
> all the way and hold the button for a few seconds, then roll it up all the
> say and hold the switch for a few seconds again to sync it back up.  So did
> the new key fix the starting issue?
>
> On 7/11/2016 7:19 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> When I unlock my w210 with the smart key, I always hold it long enough to
>> lower the windows to let some of the hell-fire heat out before getting in.
>> Having just done that , I took off and the air started blowing ice cold. I
>> went to raise the windows from the switches on the console and the
>> passenger's rear window will not go up. When cycling the switch on the
>> console, it makes no noise pressing up, klunks a bit when you press down.
>> The door switch acts the same.
>> So, what do I go after? And, how do I get the window up in the meantime so
>> I don't have to have the 112° pouring in tomorrow?
>>
>> Bob R
>> ___
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>>
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>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

http://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w210/172039-power-windows-go-down-but-not-up.html

"‎Always look for the simple solution first. A bad switch group is very very 
unlikely.

This is merely a resyncing of the windows and sunroof. Hold each switch LIGHTLY 
in turn...all the way up...hold for 5 seconds...then all the way down 
again...hold for 5 secondsthat will do it.‎"


Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry Z10‎
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

If the regulator was bad you would hear it running and not doing 
anything. Sounds like the switch has gotten out of sync.  I believe you 
roll it down all the way and hold the button for a few seconds, then 
roll it up all the say and hold the switch for a few seconds again to 
sync it back up.  So did the new key fix the starting issue?


On 7/11/2016 7:19 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:

When I unlock my w210 with the smart key, I always hold it long enough to
lower the windows to let some of the hell-fire heat out before getting in.
Having just done that , I took off and the air started blowing ice cold. I
went to raise the windows from the switches on the console and the
passenger's rear window will not go up. When cycling the switch on the
console, it makes no noise pressing up, klunks a bit when you press down.
The door switch acts the same.
So, what do I go after? And, how do I get the window up in the meantime so
I don't have to have the 112° pouring in tomorrow?

Bob R
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

I'd pull off the door panel and short the wires to the motor and see if 
you can get any motion.  If so then the switches are probably dirty or 
hot or something.


Did you CHANGE YOUR FUSES?

--JC


On 7/11/16 8:19 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:

When I unlock my w210 with the smart key, I always hold it long enough to
lower the windows to let some of the hell-fire heat out before getting in.
Having just done that , I took off and the air started blowing ice cold. I
went to raise the windows from the switches on the console and the
passenger's rear window will not go up. When cycling the switch on the
console, it makes no noise pressing up, klunks a bit when you press down.
The door switch acts the same.
So, what do I go after? And, how do I get the window up in the meantime so
I don't have to have the 112° pouring in tomorrow?

Bob R
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[MBZ] Rear Window Failed Down/Open

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

When I unlock my w210 with the smart key, I always hold it long enough to
lower the windows to let some of the hell-fire heat out before getting in.
Having just done that , I took off and the air started blowing ice cold. I
went to raise the windows from the switches on the console and the
passenger's rear window will not go up. When cycling the switch on the
console, it makes no noise pressing up, klunks a bit when you press down.
The door switch acts the same.
So, what do I go after? And, how do I get the window up in the meantime so
I don't have to have the 112° pouring in tomorrow?

Bob R
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