Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs [was: Re: Any TDI folks here?}
You know, I love my 126 SD, I loved my 123 TD, and I wouldn't mind having a 124. But I'm not sure I'd have a new MBZ, even for free. IMO, reputation was (and WAS is the operative word here) Mercedes' strongest asset. One story like this overrides hundreds of positive reports. Major engine failure with less than 200K miles is just unacceptable for a modern car with scheduled maintenance. But I'm sure MBUSA isn't interested in my opinion. Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:26 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs [was: Re: Any TDI folks here?} MBUSA denied any and everything. 'Claimed "poor maintenance," though I had history of all proper maintenance, oil changes, etc., done at stealer's prior to my purchase at 69/70 kmi. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs [was: Re: Any TDI folks here?} > WILTON wrote: >> Your supposition is wrong. MB paid "half" cost of parts, and they held >> the price list, so you know how that went, don't you? I paid $2800. > > And this was one of the admittedly (MBUSA did admit it, right?) defective > timing chains from the early 1990s. > > Mitch. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs
Indie tried to talk me out of replacing at 105+ kmi on the chain. 'Told 'im, "Original broke at 79 kmi; I don't trust it; replace it." Wilton - Original Message - From: "Dan Penoff" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs 4 degrees seems like a lot of stretch. What's the spec? Dan On Jun 23, 2013, at 2:06 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: WILTON wrote: Well, maybe I did, though, 'didn't trust the one replaced at 79 kmi past about 100 kmi; did precautionary replacement at ~185 kmi on the car. Any idea what the stretch was on it when it was replaced? Found this comment on a '93 300D chain failure: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/203906-602-timing-chain-ever-see-one-break.html Yep, mine (broke) this past weekend. 1993 300D 2.5 turbo. I actually had the chain inspected about 3 months ago (4 degrees of stretch). I was ready to replace it at the time, but my MB diesel specialist talked me out of itI must have really pissed someone off in a previous life. Perfect car except for the toasted engine. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs
No. Asked indie to measure it; response when I asked what it was: "Oh, I forgot." Wilton - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs WILTON wrote: Well, maybe I did, though, 'didn't trust the one replaced at 79 kmi past about 100 kmi; did precautionary replacement at ~185 kmi on the car. Any idea what the stretch was on it when it was replaced? Found this comment on a '93 300D chain failure: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/203906-602-timing-chain-ever-see-one-break.html Yep, mine (broke) this past weekend. 1993 300D 2.5 turbo. I actually had the chain inspected about 3 months ago (4 degrees of stretch). I was ready to replace it at the time, but my MB diesel specialist talked me out of itI must have really pissed someone off in a previous life. Perfect car except for the toasted engine. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs
Dan Penoff wrote: 4 degrees seems like a lot of stretch. What's the spec? I think it's 6° for 61x and 3 or 4° for 60x. I'd be real unhappy if my indy told me it wasn't worth replacing at the factory wear limit. Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs
4 degrees seems like a lot of stretch. What's the spec? Dan On Jun 23, 2013, at 2:06 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: > WILTON wrote: >> Well, maybe I did, though, 'didn't trust the one replaced at 79 kmi past >> about 100 kmi; did precautionary replacement at ~185 kmi on the car. > > Any idea what the stretch was on it when it was replaced? > > Found this comment on a '93 300D chain failure: > > http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/203906-602-timing-chain-ever-see-one-break.html > > Yep, mine (broke) this past weekend. 1993 300D 2.5 turbo. I actually had the > chain inspected about 3 months ago (4 degrees of stretch). I was ready to > replace it at the time, but my MB diesel specialist talked me out of itI > must have really pissed someone off in a previous life. Perfect car except > for the toasted engine. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs
WILTON wrote: Well, maybe I did, though, 'didn't trust the one replaced at 79 kmi past about 100 kmi; did precautionary replacement at ~185 kmi on the car. Any idea what the stretch was on it when it was replaced? Found this comment on a '93 300D chain failure: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/203906-602-timing-chain-ever-see-one-break.html Yep, mine (broke) this past weekend. 1993 300D 2.5 turbo. I actually had the chain inspected about 3 months ago (4 degrees of stretch). I was ready to replace it at the time, but my MB diesel specialist talked me out of itI must have really pissed someone off in a previous life. Perfect car except for the toasted engine. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs
That's what the "word" was at that time; no talk of bad chains then, though. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs Chris James wrote: If an original 3.5L OM603 engine has made it 20yrs/150Kmi and currently has no issues, I would think it's safe to assume it not a "Rod bender". Many did have issues though (usually just outside of the warranty, IIRC) & I'm not sure if a definite answer of why this was occurring has ever been found out. The only theory I know that explains the fact that #1 rod is almost always the first to fail is head gasket failure and oil going into cylinder #1. OM601/602/603 always tended to get head gasket leaks at the front, the larger bore of the 350 seems to increase the likelihood of the oil going into the cylinder instead of outside the engine. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs
Well, maybe I did, though, 'didn't trust the one replaced at 79 kmi past about 100 kmi; did precautionary replacement at ~185 kmi on the car. Wilton - Original Message - From: "WILTON" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs 'Never heard of chronic timing chain problem 'till it was mentioned on this list today. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Chris James" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs Well, being outside the 4yr/50Kmi warranty.at least they paid something. How disappointing to have that happen though. Looking back, any warning/symptoms before the chain let go? I think the defective chain TSB only covers Jul '92 - Apr '94 built models. http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/OM60X/OM60x_Timing_Chain_TSB.pdf If an original 3.5L OM603 engine has made it 20yrs/150Kmi and currently has no issues, I would think it's safe to assume it not a "Rod bender". Many did have issues though (usually just outside of the warranty, IIRC) & I'm not sure if a definite answer of why this was occurring has ever been found out. On 6/23/2013 12:07 PM, WILTON wrote: Your supposition is wrong. MB paid "half" cost of parts, and they held the price list, so you know how that went, don't you? I paid $2800. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Craig" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs [was: Re: Any TDI folks here?} On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 10:30:25 -0400 "WILTON" wrote: Timing chain in mine broke at 79 kmi. Replaced chain, chain guides, several valves and lifters, head gasket and lots of stuff I don't remember. Milled head. Walt's has crate engine from Mercedes. I suppose that since it was at 79 kmi, Mercedes Benz paid for the repairs. Craig -- Chris J. MBCA Peachtree section Past MB Models: '85 190D 2.2, '94 E420, '87 260E ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs
'Never heard of chronic timing chain problem 'till it was mentioned on this list today. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Chris James" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs Well, being outside the 4yr/50Kmi warranty.at least they paid something. How disappointing to have that happen though. Looking back, any warning/symptoms before the chain let go? I think the defective chain TSB only covers Jul '92 - Apr '94 built models. http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/OM60X/OM60x_Timing_Chain_TSB.pdf If an original 3.5L OM603 engine has made it 20yrs/150Kmi and currently has no issues, I would think it's safe to assume it not a "Rod bender". Many did have issues though (usually just outside of the warranty, IIRC) & I'm not sure if a definite answer of why this was occurring has ever been found out. On 6/23/2013 12:07 PM, WILTON wrote: Your supposition is wrong. MB paid "half" cost of parts, and they held the price list, so you know how that went, don't you? I paid $2800. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Craig" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs [was: Re: Any TDI folks here?} On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 10:30:25 -0400 "WILTON" wrote: Timing chain in mine broke at 79 kmi. Replaced chain, chain guides, several valves and lifters, head gasket and lots of stuff I don't remember. Milled head. Walt's has crate engine from Mercedes. I suppose that since it was at 79 kmi, Mercedes Benz paid for the repairs. Craig -- Chris J. MBCA Peachtree section Past MB Models: '85 190D 2.2, '94 E420, '87 260E ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs
Chris James wrote: If an original 3.5L OM603 engine has made it 20yrs/150Kmi and currently has no issues, I would think it's safe to assume it not a "Rod bender". Many did have issues though (usually just outside of the warranty, IIRC) & I'm not sure if a definite answer of why this was occurring has ever been found out. The only theory I know that explains the fact that #1 rod is almost always the first to fail is head gasket failure and oil going into cylinder #1. OM601/602/603 always tended to get head gasket leaks at the front, the larger bore of the 350 seems to increase the likelihood of the oil going into the cylinder instead of outside the engine. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs
Well, being outside the 4yr/50Kmi warranty.at least they paid something. How disappointing to have that happen though. Looking back, any warning/symptoms before the chain let go? I think the defective chain TSB only covers Jul '92 - Apr '94 built models. http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/OM60X/OM60x_Timing_Chain_TSB.pdf If an original 3.5L OM603 engine has made it 20yrs/150Kmi and currently has no issues, I would think it's safe to assume it not a "Rod bender". Many did have issues though (usually just outside of the warranty, IIRC) & I'm not sure if a definite answer of why this was occurring has ever been found out. On 6/23/2013 12:07 PM, WILTON wrote: Your supposition is wrong. MB paid "half" cost of parts, and they held the price list, so you know how that went, don't you? I paid $2800. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Craig" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs [was: Re: Any TDI folks here?} On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 10:30:25 -0400 "WILTON" wrote: Timing chain in mine broke at 79 kmi. Replaced chain, chain guides, several valves and lifters, head gasket and lots of stuff I don't remember. Milled head. Walt's has crate engine from Mercedes. I suppose that since it was at 79 kmi, Mercedes Benz paid for the repairs. Craig -- Chris J. MBCA Peachtree section Past MB Models: '85 190D 2.2, '94 E420, '87 260E ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs [was: Re: Any TDI folks here?}
MBUSA denied any and everything. 'Claimed "poor maintenance," though I had history of all proper maintenance, oil changes, etc., done at stealer's prior to my purchase at 69/70 kmi. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs [was: Re: Any TDI folks here?} WILTON wrote: Your supposition is wrong. MB paid "half" cost of parts, and they held the price list, so you know how that went, don't you? I paid $2800. And this was one of the admittedly (MBUSA did admit it, right?) defective timing chains from the early 1990s. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs [was: Re: Any TDI folks here?}
WILTON wrote: Your supposition is wrong. MB paid "half" cost of parts, and they held the price list, so you know how that went, don't you? I paid $2800. And this was one of the admittedly (MBUSA did admit it, right?) defective timing chains from the early 1990s. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs [was: Re: Any TDI folks here?}
Your supposition is wrong. MB paid "half" cost of parts, and they held the price list, so you know how that went, don't you? I paid $2800. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Craig" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [MBZ] Rod bender repairs [was: Re: Any TDI folks here?} On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 10:30:25 -0400 "WILTON" wrote: Timing chain in mine broke at 79 kmi. Replaced chain, chain guides, several valves and lifters, head gasket and lots of stuff I don't remember. Milled head. Walt's has crate engine from Mercedes. I suppose that since it was at 79 kmi, Mercedes Benz paid for the repairs. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Rod bender repairs [was: Re: Any TDI folks here?}
On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 10:30:25 -0400 "WILTON" wrote: > Timing chain in mine broke at 79 kmi. Replaced chain, chain guides, > several valves and lifters, head gasket and lots of stuff I don't > remember. Milled head. Walt's has crate engine from Mercedes. I suppose that since it was at 79 kmi, Mercedes Benz paid for the repairs. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
