Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Peter Frederick]

Plane had plenty of fuel, since there was a large post-crash fuel fire.

That doesn't necessarily mean it was being burned in the engines to  
make power, though.


The "black box" will indicate how much power each engine was  
producing, flight control movements, altitude, direction, and so forth.


Current data indicates a "slam dunk" approach (fast and high to start)  
but a more or less stabilized final.  Cogent point, as in the Asiana  
crash, is whether or not proper airspeed was maintained -- if the sink  
rate wasn't arrested quickly enough during final approach, the ground  
moves up pretty fast.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Andrew Strasfogel]

Good point.  How could the Investigators determine if the plane literally
ran out of fuel - the black box?


On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 10:22 PM, Allan Streib wrote:

> Richard Hattaway  writes:
>
> > The witness on TV who was talking about how it was on fire before it
> > crashed also mentioned 'large cracking sound' and 'loud boom' and etc
> > etc etc.  He looked like he was glad to say whatever it took to make
> > him famous for a few minutes.
>
> Witnesses usually say a lot of things that don't end up being true.
> Though there were high-voltage powerlines in the path, if they hit one
> that could cause some crackling sounds, sparks/flashes, etc.
>
>
>
> --
> Allan Streib
>
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Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Allan Streib]

Richard Hattaway  writes:

> The witness on TV who was talking about how it was on fire before it
> crashed also mentioned 'large cracking sound' and 'loud boom' and etc
> etc etc.  He looked like he was glad to say whatever it took to make
> him famous for a few minutes.

Witnesses usually say a lot of things that don't end up being true.
Though there were high-voltage powerlines in the path, if they hit one
that could cause some crackling sounds, sparks/flashes, etc.



-- 
Allan Streib

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Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Gerry Archer]

Read an article some time ago wherein pilots were complaining about airlines 
cutting them short on fuel in order to haul more passengers/freight.  Saw no 
resolution of the dispute, so I wonder if fuel exhaustion could be the 
cause?

Gerry

From: "Andrew Strasfogel" 

NTSB Investigators saw no evidence of a fire.
On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Peter Frederick 
wrote:

An engine fire is possible.  They weren't out of fuel (big post-crash
fire) but that doesn't mean it was being delivered to the engines nor 
that

one or both of them failed.
Engine failures these days aren't very common, and P&W makes good ones.
Peter


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Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Richard Hattaway]

The witness on TV who was talking about how it was on fire before it crashed 
also mentioned 'large cracking sound' and 'loud boom' and etc etc etc.  He 
looked like he was glad to say whatever it took to make him famous for a few 
minutes.





 From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash
 

I heard on the radio that witnesses said the plane was on fire, maybe 
engines.  Wonder if they had a failure on an engine?

--R


On 8/15/13 11:57 PM, Craig wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 22:30:04 -0500 Peter Frederick 
> wrote:
>
>> Look at the dirt, then consider that it should have been rotating at
>> 25,000 rpm.
> Ah, yes, and it wouldn't have been as intact as it is if it had been
> turning at speed.
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Andrew Strasfogel]

NTSB Investigators saw no evidence of a fire.

On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Peter Frederick wrote:

> An engine fire is possible.  They weren't out of fuel (big post-crash
> fire) but that doesn't mean it was being delivered to the engines nor that
> one or both of them failed.
>
> Engine failures these days aren't very common, and P&W makes good ones.
>
> Peter
>
>
> __**_
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Peter Frederick]

An engine fire is possible.  They weren't out of fuel (big post-crash  
fire) but that doesn't mean it was being delivered to the engines nor  
that one or both of them failed.


Engine failures these days aren't very common, and P&W makes good ones.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Rich Thomas]

I heard on the radio that witnesses said the plane was on fire, maybe 
engines.  Wonder if they had a failure on an engine?


--R


On 8/15/13 11:57 PM, Craig wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 22:30:04 -0500 Peter Frederick 
wrote:


Look at the dirt, then consider that it should have been rotating at
25,000 rpm.

Ah, yes, and it wouldn't have been as intact as it is if it had been
turning at speed.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Peter Frederick]

If there had been normal power on (remember the Asiana crash), the  
engines would be spooled up a mile out.  Looks to me as it they were  
dead. just windmilling, especially since the aircraft also hit some  
trees before impact.


I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but it looks to me as if they were  
just windmilling on impact.


Deadstick landing in an Airbus 300, what a thought!

Had to have been a surprise for the crew as well, as they appear to  
have been talking a normal approach.


Wonder if it decided to land itself short of the runway?  Air India  
grounded all of theirs in the 90's for that very reason.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Craig]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 22:30:04 -0500 Peter Frederick 
wrote:

> Look at the dirt, then consider that it should have been rotating at  
> 25,000 rpm.

Ah, yes, and it wouldn't have been as intact as it is if it had been
turning at speed.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Peter Frederick]

Look at the dirt, then consider that it should have been rotating at  
25,000 rpm.



Peter

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Re: [MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Craig]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:46:01 -0500 Peter Frederick 
wrote:

> Anybody else notice anything strange about the picture of the engine  
> of that Airbus?  The one I saw is on weather.com.

You mean the one with a few guys standing in front of it with nothing
else in the area? Where the front fan has a lot of dirt on it?

I'm not sure what you might consider strange


Craig

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[MBZ] UPS Airbus crash

[Peter Frederick]

Anybody else notice anything strange about the picture of the engine  
of that Airbus?  The one I saw is on weather.com.


Peter

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