Re: [MBZ] Cars kill fish

2020-12-06 Thread greg via Mercedes 




IMO there are many factors impacting salmon runs. Logging roads were
placed adjacent to creeks in order to take advantage of the relatively
level runs, multiplying the silting and polluting of the creeks. Loss of
creekside vegetation causes warming of the water, which along with the
silt and pollution decreases the O2 levels.
The defeat of the
Canadian gold mining initiative in Alaska is one bright spot in the fight
to save the salmon.
Greg, who lives near Salmon Creek.

> Yes we all thought we knew the answers. But none of them really
seemed
> controllable until this one. E.g. the logging clearcut
runoff, or Japanese
> purse seiners.
> 
> On Sun,
Dec 6, 2020, 1:15 AM Clay Monroe via Mercedes
>

> wrote:
> 
>>
NOAA finally did a study to learn why the salmon seemed to have crashed
>> and if all the Columbia river and Snake dams were the cause. 
Same
>> theory
>> with the Rouge river as well.
>>
>> Turned out that the populations were declining
because there were too
>> many
>> wild salmon
getting caught commercially and the response (normal for
>>
intense predation) was for more smaller and younger fish reproducing,
>> creating more small fish, that were easier for sea lions to
catch.
>>
>> Clay
>>
>>
>> inter urinas et faeces nascimur
>>
>>
> On Dec 5, 2020, at 7:01 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I used to catch them with my mom's dad in Oregon, until
the population
>> > crashed and they shut the sport fishery
down. So we have been
>> speculating
>> > about
why that happened in my family for 30 years or so.
>> >
>> > If this is true, it is fantastic news for fishermen.
>> >
>> > Now if only we can figure out what
random chemical is killing all the
>> > bees...
>> >
>> > On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 5:01 PM Dwight
Giles via Mercedes <
>> > mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:
>> >
>> >> Yes the right question to
ask
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
Dwight Giles Jr.
>> >> Wickford RI
>>
>>
>> >> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 7:32 PM OK Don via
Mercedes
>> > >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>>
>>> How is poisonous tire residue liberal? Non-sequitur.  They
just need
>> to
>> >>> either find a
different chemical to delay the inevitable hardening
>> of
>> the
>> >>> rubber or let the tires dry rot
sooner - that is if you want to have
>> >> salmon
>> >>> to eat (as I do). Or, you could cover all the
roads to keep the rain
>> off
>> >>>
them.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Dec 5,
2020 at 4:12 PM Clay Monroe via Mercedes <
>> >>>
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>>

>> 
>>
>>>
>> >>
>>
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
>>  <
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
>> >
>> 
>>  Liberal hysteria runs rampant.  Now being in a
car is implicated in
>> >> mass
>>
 anadromous murder.  So, we will not be allowed to drive a
car or
>> have
>>  trucks ship our
products.  Bikes will be on the chopping block
>> next.
>> >>> When
>>  we are down to
shanks mare and shoe leather, maybe fishies can eat
>> >>
sole.
>>  Not chinese rubber bottom shoes, but
real dead cows.
>> 
>>
 Maybe the fisheries people will mandate masks for
salmon?
>> 
>> 
>>  Clay
>> 
>> 
>>  inter urinas et
faeces nascimur
>> 
>>
 ___
>>
 http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>>  To search list archives
http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go
to:
>> 
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
>>
>>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> OK
Don
>> >>>
>> >>> "Whenever
you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time
>>
to
>> >>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> >>>
>> >>> “Basic research is
what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am
>> doing.”
>> >>> Wernher
>> >>> Von Braun
>> >>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> >>> 2017
Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> >>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but
at 150 mph!
>> >>>
___
>> >>>
http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >>>
>>
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >>>
>> >>> To Unsubscribe or
change delivery options go to:
>> >>>
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
___
>> >>
http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >>
>> >> To
search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>>
>> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options
go to:
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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Re: [MBZ] Cars kill fish

2020-12-06 Thread Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
Yes we all thought we knew the answers. But none of them really seemed
controllable until this one. E.g. the logging clearcut runoff, or Japanese
purse seiners.

On Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 1:15 AM Clay Monroe via Mercedes 
wrote:

> NOAA finally did a study to learn why the salmon seemed to have crashed
> and if all the Columbia river and Snake dams were the cause.  Same theory
> with the Rouge river as well.
>
> Turned out that the populations were declining because there were too many
> wild salmon getting caught commercially and the response (normal for
> intense predation) was for more smaller and younger fish reproducing,
> creating more small fish, that were easier for sea lions to catch.
>
> Clay
>
>
> inter urinas et faeces nascimur
>
> > On Dec 5, 2020, at 7:01 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I used to catch them with my mom's dad in Oregon, until the population
> > crashed and they shut the sport fishery down. So we have been speculating
> > about why that happened in my family for 30 years or so.
> >
> > If this is true, it is fantastic news for fishermen.
> >
> > Now if only we can figure out what random chemical is killing all the
> > bees...
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 5:01 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Yes the right question to ask
> >>
> >>
> >> Dwight Giles Jr.
> >> Wickford RI
> >>
> >> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 7:32 PM OK Don via Mercedes  >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> How is poisonous tire residue liberal? Non-sequitur.  They just need to
> >>> either find a different chemical to delay the inevitable hardening of
> the
> >>> rubber or let the tires dry rot sooner - that is if you want to have
> >> salmon
> >>> to eat (as I do). Or, you could cover all the roads to keep the rain
> off
> >>> them.
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 4:12 PM Clay Monroe via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>
> https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
>  <
> 
> >>>
> >>
> https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
> >
> 
>  Liberal hysteria runs rampant.  Now being in a car is implicated in
> >> mass
>  anadromous murder.  So, we will not be allowed to drive a car or have
>  trucks ship our products.  Bikes will be on the chopping block next.
> >>> When
>  we are down to shanks mare and shoe leather, maybe fishies can eat
> >> sole.
>  Not chinese rubber bottom shoes, but real dead cows.
> 
>  Maybe the fisheries people will mandate masks for salmon?
> 
> 
>  Clay
> 
> 
>  inter urinas et faeces nascimur
> 
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> OK Don
> >>>
> >>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> >>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >>>
> >>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> >>> Wernher
> >>> Von Braun
> >>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> >>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> >>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Cars kill fish

2020-12-06 Thread Clay Monroe via Mercedes 
NOAA finally did a study to learn why the salmon seemed to have crashed and if 
all the Columbia river and Snake dams were the cause.  Same theory with the 
Rouge river as well.

Turned out that the populations were declining because there were too many wild 
salmon getting caught commercially and the response (normal for intense 
predation) was for more smaller and younger fish reproducing, creating more 
small fish, that were easier for sea lions to catch.  

Clay


inter urinas et faeces nascimur

> On Dec 5, 2020, at 7:01 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I used to catch them with my mom's dad in Oregon, until the population
> crashed and they shut the sport fishery down. So we have been speculating
> about why that happened in my family for 30 years or so.
> 
> If this is true, it is fantastic news for fishermen.
> 
> Now if only we can figure out what random chemical is killing all the
> bees...
> 
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 5:01 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yes the right question to ask
>> 
>> 
>> Dwight Giles Jr.
>> Wickford RI
>> 
>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 7:32 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> How is poisonous tire residue liberal? Non-sequitur.  They just need to
>>> either find a different chemical to delay the inevitable hardening of the
>>> rubber or let the tires dry rot sooner - that is if you want to have
>> salmon
>>> to eat (as I do). Or, you could cover all the roads to keep the rain off
>>> them.
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 4:12 PM Clay Monroe via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 
 
>>> 
>> https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
 <
 
>>> 
>> https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
> 
 
 Liberal hysteria runs rampant.  Now being in a car is implicated in
>> mass
 anadromous murder.  So, we will not be allowed to drive a car or have
 trucks ship our products.  Bikes will be on the chopping block next.
>>> When
 we are down to shanks mare and shoe leather, maybe fishies can eat
>> sole.
 Not chinese rubber bottom shoes, but real dead cows.
 
 Maybe the fisheries people will mandate masks for salmon?
 
 
 Clay
 
 
 inter urinas et faeces nascimur
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> OK Don
>>> 
>>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>>> 
>>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>>> Wernher
>>> Von Braun
>>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Cars kill fish

2020-12-06 Thread Clay Monroe via Mercedes 
It has more to do with Seattle being a liberal nut zone where panic and 
hysteria about any manner of perceived threat to wildlife and human activities 
must be persecuted with Greenpeace level zeal.  
There was massive outcry a few years ago that people were peeing too much 
caffeine into Puget Sound and they should close down the Starbucks and tax any 
form of coffee and sodas.  Another crisis was the stormwater run-off sending 
auto fluid excretions into the water.  Not much mention that their sewage 
system is antiquated and spills fresh feces into rivers, lakes and dumps right 
into Orca pods.  The county is in charge of waste water, so they get a pass on 
reporting, but citizens are harming the owls and darter snails.

Clay


inter urinas et faeces nascimur

> On Dec 5, 2020, at 3:31 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> How is poisonous tire residue liberal? Non-sequitur.  They just need to
> either find a different chemical to delay the inevitable hardening of the
> rubber or let the tires dry rot sooner - that is if you want to have salmon
> to eat (as I do). Or, you could cover all the roads to keep the rain off
> them.
> 
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 4:12 PM Clay Monroe via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

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Re: [MBZ] Cars kill fish

2020-12-05 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>Now if only we can figure out what random chemical is killing all the bees...


My next door neighbor has hives and has had issues with mites over the years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varroa_destructor

The "murder hornets" found earlier this year in Washington state also kill off 
bee colonies.

Here is a step in the right direction.

https://www.businessinsider.com/epa-banned-pesticides-killing-bees-2019-5

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] Cars kill fish

2020-12-05 Thread Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
I used to catch them with my mom's dad in Oregon, until the population
crashed and they shut the sport fishery down. So we have been speculating
about why that happened in my family for 30 years or so.

If this is true, it is fantastic news for fishermen.

Now if only we can figure out what random chemical is killing all the
bees...

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 5:01 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yes the right question to ask
>
>
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
>
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 7:32 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:
>
> > How is poisonous tire residue liberal? Non-sequitur.  They just need to
> > either find a different chemical to delay the inevitable hardening of the
> > rubber or let the tires dry rot sooner - that is if you want to have
> salmon
> > to eat (as I do). Or, you could cover all the roads to keep the rain off
> > them.
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 4:12 PM Clay Monroe via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
> > > >
> > >
> > > Liberal hysteria runs rampant.  Now being in a car is implicated in
> mass
> > > anadromous murder.  So, we will not be allowed to drive a car or have
> > > trucks ship our products.  Bikes will be on the chopping block next.
> > When
> > > we are down to shanks mare and shoe leather, maybe fishies can eat
> sole.
> > > Not chinese rubber bottom shoes, but real dead cows.
> > >
> > > Maybe the fisheries people will mandate masks for salmon?
> > >
> > >
> > > Clay
> > >
> > >
> > > inter urinas et faeces nascimur
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> > pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >
> > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> > Wernher
> > Von Braun
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cars kill fish

2020-12-05 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
Yes the right question to ask


Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 7:32 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> How is poisonous tire residue liberal? Non-sequitur.  They just need to
> either find a different chemical to delay the inevitable hardening of the
> rubber or let the tires dry rot sooner - that is if you want to have salmon
> to eat (as I do). Or, you could cover all the roads to keep the rain off
> them.
>
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 4:12 PM Clay Monroe via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
> > <
> >
> https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
> > >
> >
> > Liberal hysteria runs rampant.  Now being in a car is implicated in mass
> > anadromous murder.  So, we will not be allowed to drive a car or have
> > trucks ship our products.  Bikes will be on the chopping block next.
> When
> > we are down to shanks mare and shoe leather, maybe fishies can eat sole.
> > Not chinese rubber bottom shoes, but real dead cows.
> >
> > Maybe the fisheries people will mandate masks for salmon?
> >
> >
> > Clay
> >
> >
> > inter urinas et faeces nascimur
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cars kill fish

2020-12-05 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes 
Yes it's such a problem that it has been known and studied for years and
the salmon keep coming back.

More seriously, it's apparently finally been found that a specific
chemical used as an antioxidant in the rubber is toxic to the
salmon. So, perhaps a substitute can be found that isn't so toxic.

Allan

Clay Monroe via Mercedes  writes:

> https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
>  
> 
>
> Liberal hysteria runs rampant.  Now being in a car is implicated in mass 
> anadromous murder.  So, we will not be allowed to drive a car or have trucks 
> ship our products.  Bikes will be on the chopping block next.  When we are 
> down to shanks mare and shoe leather, maybe fishies can eat sole.  Not 
> chinese rubber bottom shoes, but real dead cows.
>
> Maybe the fisheries people will mandate masks for salmon?
>
>
> Clay
>
>
> inter urinas et faeces nascimur
>

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Re: [MBZ] Cars kill fish

2020-12-05 Thread OK Don via Mercedes 
How is poisonous tire residue liberal? Non-sequitur.  They just need to
either find a different chemical to delay the inevitable hardening of the
rubber or let the tires dry rot sooner - that is if you want to have salmon
to eat (as I do). Or, you could cover all the roads to keep the rain off
them.

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 4:12 PM Clay Monroe via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
> <
> https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/tire-dust-is-killing-salmon/
> >
>
> Liberal hysteria runs rampant.  Now being in a car is implicated in mass
> anadromous murder.  So, we will not be allowed to drive a car or have
> trucks ship our products.  Bikes will be on the chopping block next.  When
> we are down to shanks mare and shoe leather, maybe fishies can eat sole.
> Not chinese rubber bottom shoes, but real dead cows.
>
> Maybe the fisheries people will mandate masks for salmon?
>
>
> Clay
>
>
> inter urinas et faeces nascimur
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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