Re: [MBZ] OT - road tax
Nobody's ever done that commercially, for the simple reason that it would be painfully inefficient. The H2 sold via gas station compressors in CA comes from cracking petroleum. As for the road tax - newspapers told us that MI would start taxing hybrids ($30/yr) and EVs ($90/yr) via increased registration fees. Turns out that was plug-in hybrids like Chevy Volts, not ordinary hybrids like Mercedes and Prius. The idea was to tax the electricity put into cars, not to punish Prius for their presumed fuel efficiency. My problem with the scheme is that I currently pay less than $90 in state fuel taxes, so the EV tag would be a tax increase. Mitch. > On October 3, 2019 at 4:27 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes > wrote: > > > If you used solar power to electrolyze water where's the pollution? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - road tax
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 21:19:31 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: > Do you know how much hydrogen has to be pressurized to be a reasonable > motor fuel? You'd be driving around with a bomb... There are better methods for storing hydrogen as automobile fuel. Metal hydrides are one. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - road tax
. Hydrogen energy pros and cons. https://vittana.org/18-biggest-hydrogen-energy-pros-and-cons .. On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 15:02:55 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: > Not exactly, but getting there. Hydrogen is probably closer. > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 2:25 PM G Mann via Mercedes > wrote: > > > But, but, but, it's free energy and doesn't pollute . > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 10:57 AM Clay Monroe via Mercedes < > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > > Hybrid vehicle owners sound off on increased car tab renewal fee > > > http://via.q13fox.com/PSlmY > > > > > > Maybe a non issue for this group, as we do not have electric benz > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > ___ > > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > -- arche...@embarqmail.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - road tax
Well, Mercedes is my proxy for hydrogen. They are gung-ho in developing the technology for hydrogen powered cars. On Thu, Oct 3, 2019, 5:36 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > He main fact is that hydrogen is an energy storage medium, not an energy > source. The discussion needs to focus on energy sources with storage as a > secondary issue. > > > -Original Message- > > From: Raymond via Mercedes > > > > How much land do you need to cover with solar panels to make a > reasonably > > useful amount of hydrogen?When you turn solar power into hydrogen you > throw > > away a whole bunch to inefficiency. Much better to use that solar power > to > > power houses.Shoot electric cars with lithium batteries make more sense > than > > hydrogen. Do you know how much hydrogen has to be pressurized to be a > > reasonable motor fuel? You'd be driving around with a bomb... > > > > -Curt > > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - road tax
He main fact is that hydrogen is an energy storage medium, not an energy source. The discussion needs to focus on energy sources with storage as a secondary issue. > -Original Message- > From: Raymond via Mercedes > > How much land do you need to cover with solar panels to make a reasonably > useful amount of hydrogen?When you turn solar power into hydrogen you throw > away a whole bunch to inefficiency. Much better to use that solar power to > power houses.Shoot electric cars with lithium batteries make more sense than > hydrogen. Do you know how much hydrogen has to be pressurized to be a > reasonable motor fuel? You'd be driving around with a bomb... > > -Curt > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - road tax
How much land do you need to cover with solar panels to make a reasonably useful amount of hydrogen?When you turn solar power into hydrogen you throw away a whole bunch to inefficiency. Much better to use that solar power to power houses.Shoot electric cars with lithium batteries make more sense than hydrogen. Do you know how much hydrogen has to be pressurized to be a reasonable motor fuel? You'd be driving around with a bomb... -Curt On Thursday, October 3, 2019, 4:28:26 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: If you used solar power to electrolyze water where's the pollution? On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:33 PM OK Don via Mercedes wrote: > Well said, Curt ... The bottom line - TANSTAAFL. > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 2:29 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > Hydrogen "energy" is hugely polluting. Most of the industrial hydrogen > is > > extracted from oil. Sure you could extract it from water but the energy > > required for that is big.At best hydrogen is an inefficient battery. > > Actually at best its a scam to extract money from rubes... > > -Curt > > > -- > OK Don > > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to > pause and reflect." Mark Twain > > "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who > learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence > for themselves." > > WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - road tax
The pollution would be generated in producing the acres and acres of solar panels that would be needed to produce enough useful electricity to produce enough hydrogen so that one could drive 300 or more miles per week. And then there is the business case which would probably show the cost per mile driven to be about fifty times the cost of an equivalent internal combustion engine vehicle. Thus the expression "A fool and his money are soon parted." -- Max Dillon Charleston SC On October 3, 2019 4:27:28 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: >If you used solar power to electrolyze water where's the pollution? > >On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:33 PM OK Don via Mercedes > >wrote: > >> Well said, Curt ... The bottom line - TANSTAAFL. >> >> On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 2:29 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >> >> > Hydrogen "energy" is hugely polluting. Most of the industrial >hydrogen >> is >> > extracted from oil. Sure you could extract it from water but the >energy >> > required for that is big.At best hydrogen is an inefficient >battery. >> > Actually at best its a scam to extract money from rubes... >> > -Curt >> >> >> -- >> OK Don >> >> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time >to >> pause and reflect." Mark Twain >> >> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The >few who >> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric >fence >> for themselves." >> >> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* >> 2013 F150, 18 mpg >> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg >> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> >___ >http://www.okiebenz.com > >To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - road tax
If you used solar power to electrolyze water where's the pollution? On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:33 PM OK Don via Mercedes wrote: > Well said, Curt ... The bottom line - TANSTAAFL. > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 2:29 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > Hydrogen "energy" is hugely polluting. Most of the industrial hydrogen > is > > extracted from oil. Sure you could extract it from water but the energy > > required for that is big.At best hydrogen is an inefficient battery. > > Actually at best its a scam to extract money from rubes... > > -Curt > > > -- > OK Don > > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to > pause and reflect." Mark Twain > > "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who > learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence > for themselves." > > WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - road tax
Well said, Curt ... The bottom line - TANSTAAFL. On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 2:29 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Hydrogen "energy" is hugely polluting. Most of the industrial hydrogen is > extracted from oil. Sure you could extract it from water but the energy > required for that is big.At best hydrogen is an inefficient battery. > Actually at best its a scam to extract money from rubes... > -Curt -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - road tax
Hydrogen "energy" is hugely polluting. Most of the industrial hydrogen is extracted from oil. Sure you could extract it from water but the energy required for that is big.At best hydrogen is an inefficient battery. Actually at best its a scam to extract money from rubes... -Curt On Thursday, October 3, 2019, 3:03:51 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Not exactly, but getting there. Hydrogen is probably closer. On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 2:25 PM G Mann via Mercedes wrote: > But, but, but, it's free energy and doesn't pollute . > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 10:57 AM Clay Monroe via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > Hybrid vehicle owners sound off on increased car tab renewal fee > > http://via.q13fox.com/PSlmY > > > > Maybe a non issue for this group, as we do not have electric benz > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - road tax
Not exactly, but getting there. Hydrogen is probably closer. On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 2:25 PM G Mann via Mercedes wrote: > But, but, but, it's free energy and doesn't pollute . > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 10:57 AM Clay Monroe via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > Hybrid vehicle owners sound off on increased car tab renewal fee > > http://via.q13fox.com/PSlmY > > > > Maybe a non issue for this group, as we do not have electric benz > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - road tax
But, but, but, it's free energy and doesn't pollute . On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 10:57 AM Clay Monroe via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Hybrid vehicle owners sound off on increased car tab renewal fee > http://via.q13fox.com/PSlmY > > Maybe a non issue for this group, as we do not have electric benz > > Sent from my iPad > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
