Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq
The is a pretty-clear case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. This piece may interest some: http://www.legion.org/magazine/226570/worlds-no-1-enemy > -Original Message- > From: Mann via Mercedes > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 12:14 PM > > " If "should'a" and "could'a were horses, all beggers would ride" > > The last war this country entered and fought to win was WW2, and win we did, > not only because of the men that went to battle, but because the people at > home produced more equipment and material than the enemy to supply > them. When they came home they supported and honored those men. > > Every war since then has been a "police action" with the goal of not defeating > the enemy, but to "contain them". Society in general has not supported these > poorly defined "police actions" and neither has Congress. > The "police actions" have been run by politicians, not military commanders, > and the goals have been poorly defined to the citizens, yet many politicians > have become wealthy while in office. > > So, I make the suggestions. If we fight, anywhere, let's fight to win. > If a politician gets rich making war, let's treat them as the enemy. > For example, Uranium mine rights sale... a recent example of things done > below the table.. there are others. Like arms sales to Syria. > > Cloudy goals to deceive the public into loss of blood and treasure under the > banner of "war" discuised as a "police action", do not make a cause for war. > > Our present leadership only draws "red lines in the sand" to draw attention > away from the "brown streak down the back of his pants". > IMHO. > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 7:04 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > We should only invade countries the size of - or smaller than - Grenada. > > > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 9:02 PM, WILTON via Mercedes < > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> > > wrote: > > > > > 'Zackly. > > > > > > Wilton > > > > > > - Original Message - From: "G Mann via Mercedes" < > > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> > > > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > > > Cc: "G Mann" > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:58 PM > > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending > > > up > > to > > > 450 more US troops to Iraq > > > > > > > > > > > > "War is not won until the enemy begs you to stop killing them" > > >> > > >> > > >> On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 2:29 PM, WILTON via Mercedes < > > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> Yep, sneaking into another one; probably "gonna be home by Christmas," > > as > > >>> usual. That's what I've heard too many times, anyway. > > >>> > > >>> Wilton > > >>> > > >>> - Original Message - From: "Meade Dillon via Mercedes" < > > >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> > > >>> To: "Mercedes" > > >>> Cc: "Meade Dillon" > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:18 PM > > >>> Subject: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending > > >>> up to > > >>> 450 > > >>> more US troops to Iraq > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> How tragic. The war that we'd already won under G.W. Bush is now > > slowly > > >>> > > >>>> being turned into another micro-managed-from-the-oval-office > > >>>> slowly growing conflict, sure to take the lives of some of the > > >>>> young Americans sent there by Obama. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/10/obama-approves-sending-up- > t > > o-450-more-us-troops-to-iraq/ > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> - > > >>>> Max > > >>>> Charleston SC > > >>>> ___ > > >>>> http://www.okiebenz.com > > >>>> > > >>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > >>>> > > >>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >
Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq
We didn't have much luck there last time... -Curt From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes To: Mercedes Discussion List Cc: Andrew Strasfogel Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq We should only invade countries the size of - or smaller than - Grenada. On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 9:02 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote: > 'Zackly. > > Wilton > > - Original Message - From: "G Mann via Mercedes" < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > Cc: "G Mann" > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:58 PM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to > 450 more US troops to Iraq > > > > "War is not won until the enemy begs you to stop killing them" >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 2:29 PM, WILTON via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> >> wrote: >> >> Yep, sneaking into another one; probably "gonna be home by Christmas," as >>> usual. That's what I've heard too many times, anyway. >>> >>> Wilton >>> >>> - Original Message - From: "Meade Dillon via Mercedes" < >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> >>> To: "Mercedes" >>> Cc: "Meade Dillon" >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:18 PM >>> Subject: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to >>> 450 >>> more US troops to Iraq >>> >>> >>> How tragic. The war that we'd already won under G.W. Bush is now slowly >>> >>>> being turned into another micro-managed-from-the-oval-office slowly >>>> growing >>>> conflict, sure to take the lives of some of the young Americans sent >>>> there >>>> by Obama. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/10/obama-approves-sending-up-to-450-more-us-troops-to-iraq/ >>>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> Max >>>> Charleston SC >>>> ___ >>>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>>> >>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >>> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq
> G wrote: > > Every war since [WWII] has been a "police action" with > the goal of not defeating the enemy, but to "contain them". > So, I make the suggestions. If we fight, anywhere, let's > fight to win. If a politician gets rich making war, let's > treat them as the enemy. Yup. We should not commit one soldier to action until there is a clearly defined military objective. Then bring everyone home when the objective is achieved. "Hindering terrorists" is NOT a military objective. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq
" If "should'a" and "could'a were horses, all beggers would ride" The last war this country entered and fought to win was WW2, and win we did, not only because of the men that went to battle, but because the people at home produced more equipment and material than the enemy to supply them. When they came home they supported and honored those men. Every war since then has been a "police action" with the goal of not defeating the enemy, but to "contain them". Society in general has not supported these poorly defined "police actions" and neither has Congress. The "police actions" have been run by politicians, not military commanders, and the goals have been poorly defined to the citizens, yet many politicians have become wealthy while in office. So, I make the suggestions. If we fight, anywhere, let's fight to win. If a politician gets rich making war, let's treat them as the enemy. For example, Uranium mine rights sale... a recent example of things done below the table.. there are others. Like arms sales to Syria. Cloudy goals to deceive the public into loss of blood and treasure under the banner of "war" discuised as a "police action", do not make a cause for war. Our present leadership only draws "red lines in the sand" to draw attention away from the "brown streak down the back of his pants". IMHO. On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 7:04 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > We should only invade countries the size of - or smaller than - Grenada. > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 9:02 PM, WILTON via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> > wrote: > > > 'Zackly. > > > > Wilton > > > > - Original Message ----- From: "G Mann via Mercedes" < > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> > > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > > Cc: "G Mann" > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:58 PM > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up > to > > 450 more US troops to Iraq > > > > > > > > "War is not won until the enemy begs you to stop killing them" > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 2:29 PM, WILTON via Mercedes < > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Yep, sneaking into another one; probably "gonna be home by Christmas," > as > >>> usual. That's what I've heard too many times, anyway. > >>> > >>> Wilton > >>> > >>> - Original Message - From: "Meade Dillon via Mercedes" < > >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> > >>> To: "Mercedes" > >>> Cc: "Meade Dillon" > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:18 PM > >>> Subject: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to > >>> 450 > >>> more US troops to Iraq > >>> > >>> > >>> How tragic. The war that we'd already won under G.W. Bush is now > slowly > >>> > >>>> being turned into another micro-managed-from-the-oval-office slowly > >>>> growing > >>>> conflict, sure to take the lives of some of the young Americans sent > >>>> there > >>>> by Obama. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/10/obama-approves-sending-up-to-450-more-us-troops-to-iraq/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> - > >>>> Max > >>>> Charleston SC > >>>> ___ > >>>> http://www.okiebenz.com > >>>> > >>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >>>> > >>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> ___ > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com > >>> > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >>> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >>> > >>> > >>> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > >> > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq
We should only invade countries the size of - or smaller than - Grenada. On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 9:02 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote: > 'Zackly. > > Wilton > > - Original Message - From: "G Mann via Mercedes" < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > Cc: "G Mann" > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:58 PM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to > 450 more US troops to Iraq > > > > "War is not won until the enemy begs you to stop killing them" >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 2:29 PM, WILTON via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> >> wrote: >> >> Yep, sneaking into another one; probably "gonna be home by Christmas," as >>> usual. That's what I've heard too many times, anyway. >>> >>> Wilton >>> >>> - Original Message - From: "Meade Dillon via Mercedes" < >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> >>> To: "Mercedes" >>> Cc: "Meade Dillon" >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:18 PM >>> Subject: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to >>> 450 >>> more US troops to Iraq >>> >>> >>> How tragic. The war that we'd already won under G.W. Bush is now slowly >>> >>>> being turned into another micro-managed-from-the-oval-office slowly >>>> growing >>>> conflict, sure to take the lives of some of the young Americans sent >>>> there >>>> by Obama. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/10/obama-approves-sending-up-to-450-more-us-troops-to-iraq/ >>>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> Max >>>> Charleston SC >>>> ___ >>>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>>> >>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >>> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq
'Zackly. Wilton - Original Message - From: "G Mann via Mercedes" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Cc: "G Mann" Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq "War is not won until the enemy begs you to stop killing them" On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 2:29 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote: Yep, sneaking into another one; probably "gonna be home by Christmas," as usual. That's what I've heard too many times, anyway. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Meade Dillon via Mercedes" < mercedes@okiebenz.com> To: "Mercedes" Cc: "Meade Dillon" Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:18 PM Subject: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq How tragic. The war that we'd already won under G.W. Bush is now slowly being turned into another micro-managed-from-the-oval-office slowly growing conflict, sure to take the lives of some of the young Americans sent there by Obama. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/10/obama-approves-sending-up-to-450-more-us-troops-to-iraq/ - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq
"War is not won until the enemy begs you to stop killing them" On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 2:29 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote: > Yep, sneaking into another one; probably "gonna be home by Christmas," as > usual. That's what I've heard too many times, anyway. > > Wilton > > - Original Message - From: "Meade Dillon via Mercedes" < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> > To: "Mercedes" > Cc: "Meade Dillon" > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:18 PM > Subject: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 > more US troops to Iraq > > > How tragic. The war that we'd already won under G.W. Bush is now slowly >> being turned into another micro-managed-from-the-oval-office slowly >> growing >> conflict, sure to take the lives of some of the young Americans sent there >> by Obama. >> >> >> http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/10/obama-approves-sending-up-to-450-more-us-troops-to-iraq/ >> >> >> - >> Max >> Charleston SC >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq
How tragic. The war that we'd already won under G.W. Bush is now slowly being turned into another micro-managed-from-the-oval-office slowly growing conflict, sure to take the lives of some of the young Americans sent there by Obama. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/10/obama-approves-sending-up-to-450-more-us-troops-to-iraq/ - Max Charleston SC Sam Clovis stated the criteria for involvement very well. (USAF Col., Retired) 1. National Interest? 2. protection of resources necessary for our economy? 3. Protection of our allies? I am for Sam's criteria, then if we get involved, the involvement should be a Patton-like response and the day after the start, the rest of the world should be in shock beyond "shock and awe" so that every tin pot dictator will think 24 times before they provoke us ever again.(think twice a dozen times) THAT was the USA I grew up in and that is what our folks in the Military services can do. Teddy Roosevelt said it very well in his first term before he lost his mind. "Speak softly but carry a BIG stick" We have several big sticks available. No bully (tin pan dictator) ever bothers again once you hit them hard. Every 'merkun kid used to learn that on the schoolyard, whether the bully or the bullied. I had a long fuse as a kid, but when the would be dictators didn't back off, the attack was calculated, positioned, deliberate and decisive. It was also final. Only one dumb irish kid ever came back for more. After a couple years he forgot the lesson. After the second lesson, he was never heard from again, going on 50 years now. He was around for a few more years, but his mouth was shut. Dealing with tin pot dictators from Dung or Vlad on down to andorra is the same. I didn't agree with reagan much when he was Pres, but history has born out his economic policies over the long haul, and the little tin pot dictator in libya was not heard from until billybob was elected and he thought he could mouth off safely. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq
Yep, sneaking into another one; probably "gonna be home by Christmas," as usual. That's what I've heard too many times, anyway. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Meade Dillon via Mercedes" To: "Mercedes" Cc: "Meade Dillon" Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:18 PM Subject: [MBZ] OT Vietnam all over again: Obama approves sending up to 450 more US troops to Iraq How tragic. The war that we'd already won under G.W. Bush is now slowly being turned into another micro-managed-from-the-oval-office slowly growing conflict, sure to take the lives of some of the young Americans sent there by Obama. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/10/obama-approves-sending-up-to-450-more-us-troops-to-iraq/ - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
