Re: [MBZ] W211 SBC
I think, the last you heard, she loves the Honda Accord that replaced it. So far so good with it. Randy On 11/08/2011 7:57 PM, Dieselhead wrote: I thought the last we heard she loved the toada? On 11/08/2011 4:33 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Mitch Haley wrote: http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_mercedes_working_brake_2/ This isn't a fix, it's a band-aid. Problem: the ECU is programmed for a failsafe mode that deactivates the brakes. Solution: reduce the likelihood of one of the events that would cause it to enter the dangerous failsafe mode. As for the brake problem that afflicted Naumann's E270, Weber says it was caused by vibration that allowed the wiring harness to work loose, triggering a shutdown reaction from the engine's electronic control unit. The ECU then slipped into a special failure mode that deactivated the SBC system. The recall fixes the harness more securely, and the modification now is being applied to production cars, he says. ___ Sounds like my good wife's experience with her Toyota Avalon. Step on the brake and it does not brake because the ABS has taken over but the ABS is not braking because it does not sense any locked up wheels. It's OK, that is what those big bollards in front of the stores are for. To stop cars (from driving through the nice glass). It is amazing how much damage a bollard can do to a car that hits it at low speed. It was written off and we did not buy another Toyota. May never. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W211 SBC
...No, I don't. :) Please explain. I will be in the market for a W211 soon (I just need to decide which is more important, CDI or AWD) and it'd be nice to know which crazy noises are normal and which aren't... You are aware that the SBC brakes fitted to the W211 have an extended warranty due to all the troubles. Not one of MB's best efforts. Also, don't buy a W211 older than a 2006. If you can swing it, an '07 Bluetec is a great car without any built-in design defects. RLE ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W211 SBC
On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 1:32 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote: You are aware that the SBC brakes fitted to the W211 have an extended warranty due to all the troubles. Not one of MB's best efforts. Small block Chevy brakes? (I know it's Something Brake Control.) Also, don't buy a W211 older than a 2006. If you can swing it, an '07 Bluetec is a great car without any built-in design defects. Thanks for the advice! Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W211 SBC
Somehow this escaped my attention at the time. Maybe I should subscribe to a less Luddite group, like the Hitler List? http://www.germancarforum.com/mercedes-benz-lounge/1398-mercedes-drop-sbc-brake-system.html http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_mercedes_working_brake_2/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W211 SBC
Mitch Haley wrote: http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_mercedes_working_brake_2/ This isn't a fix, it's a band-aid. Problem: the ECU is programmed for a failsafe mode that deactivates the brakes. Solution: reduce the likelihood of one of the events that would cause it to enter the dangerous failsafe mode. As for the brake problem that afflicted Naumann's E270, Weber says it was caused by vibration that allowed the wiring harness to work loose, triggering a shutdown reaction from the engine's electronic control unit. The ECU then slipped into a special failure mode that deactivated the SBC system. The recall fixes the harness more securely, and the modification now is being applied to production cars, he says. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W211 SBC
On 11/08/2011 4:33 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Mitch Haley wrote: http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_mercedes_working_brake_2/ This isn't a fix, it's a band-aid. Problem: the ECU is programmed for a failsafe mode that deactivates the brakes. Solution: reduce the likelihood of one of the events that would cause it to enter the dangerous failsafe mode. As for the brake problem that afflicted Naumann's E270, Weber says it was caused by vibration that allowed the wiring harness to work loose, triggering a shutdown reaction from the engine's electronic control unit. The ECU then slipped into a special failure mode that deactivated the SBC system. The recall fixes the harness more securely, and the modification now is being applied to production cars, he says. ___ Sounds like my good wife's experience with her Toyota Avalon. Step on the brake and it does not brake because the ABS has taken over but the ABS is not braking because it does not sense any locked up wheels. It's OK, that is what those big bollards in front of the stores are for. To stop cars (from driving through the nice glass). It is amazing how much damage a bollard can do to a car that hits it at low speed. It was written off and we did not buy another Toyota. May never. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W211 SBC
I thought the last we heard she loved the toada? On 11/08/2011 4:33 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Mitch Haley wrote: http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_mercedes_working_brake_2/ This isn't a fix, it's a band-aid. Problem: the ECU is programmed for a failsafe mode that deactivates the brakes. Solution: reduce the likelihood of one of the events that would cause it to enter the dangerous failsafe mode. As for the brake problem that afflicted Naumann's E270, Weber says it was caused by vibration that allowed the wiring harness to work loose, triggering a shutdown reaction from the engine's electronic control unit. The ECU then slipped into a special failure mode that deactivated the SBC system. The recall fixes the harness more securely, and the modification now is being applied to production cars, he says. ___ Sounds like my good wife's experience with her Toyota Avalon. Step on the brake and it does not brake because the ABS has taken over but the ABS is not braking because it does not sense any locked up wheels. It's OK, that is what those big bollards in front of the stores are for. To stop cars (from driving through the nice glass). It is amazing how much damage a bollard can do to a car that hits it at low speed. It was written off and we did not buy another Toyota. May never. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W211 SBC
Sounds bad, but not deadly. From the 2nd link, when the system goes into failure mode: ... the driver has braking power sufficient to stop the vehicle, although greater brake pedal pressure is required, and the brake pedal travel will be longer. I would guess (hope?) that a completely by-wire brake system that didn't have a direct hydraulic failover mode would not meet with DOT approval. These are cars, not fighter jets. Allan Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net writes: Somehow this escaped my attention at the time. Maybe I should subscribe to a less Luddite group, like the Hitler List? http://www.germancarforum.com/mercedes-benz-lounge/1398-mercedes-drop-sbc-brake-system.html http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_mercedes_working_brake_2/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W211 SBC
On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: I would guess (hope?) that a completely by-wire brake system that didn't have a direct hydraulic failover mode would not meet with DOT approval. These are cars, not fighter jets. The DOT apparently had no problem approving drive-by-wire throttle and transmission controls with no mechanical backup when those started to become standard a few years back. Admittedly, it's more important to be able to stop than go when your electrical system malfunctions, but I still don't like it. Is the failure mode of electric power steering the same as that of a traditional hydraulic system? I would think that the increase in steering effort would be even greater since you'd be fighting the permanent magnets in the electric motor. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W211 SBC
The failure mode is purely hydraulic... But it does require additional pedal effort since there is no vacuum booster like a normal car. This isn't really much of a problem since your first reaction when you realize the brake pedal doesn't do what it normally does is to just push it harder. I've experienced it... and I stopped safely! Jaime On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 9:28 PM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: I would guess (hope?) that a completely by-wire brake system that didn't have a direct hydraulic failover mode would not meet with DOT approval. These are cars, not fighter jets. The DOT apparently had no problem approving drive-by-wire throttle and transmission controls with no mechanical backup when those started to become standard a few years back. Admittedly, it's more important to be able to stop than go when your electrical system malfunctions, but I still don't like it. Is the failure mode of electric power steering the same as that of a traditional hydraulic system? I would think that the increase in steering effort would be even greater since you'd be fighting the permanent magnets in the electric motor. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W211 SBC
Alex Chamberlain wrote: Is the failure mode of electric power steering the same as that of a traditional hydraulic system? I would think that the increase in steering effort would be even greater since you'd be fighting the permanent magnets in the electric motor. Yes, but it isn't too terrible, at least in my mother's 2006 Malibu. It was blamed for a few crashes in the 2004 Malibu (same chassis), when the drivers believed the steering locked. They made some upgrades to the sensors and wiring in the steering column so that it wouldn't be as likely to shut down due to aberrant signal to the computer, but I think the mechanics stayed the same. I've tested it in mom's car by turning the ignition off at low speed, and the steering effort is really no worse than the manual steering in my 1977 Saab EMS. (when that Saab was my daily driver, it built my arms up so I could climb a rope hand over hand without using my legs at all, hard to believe the original owner was a woman) Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
