Re: Mersenne: Dissed again
Sorry, guys, but the problem is well known and well discussed here and it is this: looking for extra-terrestrial life is "sexy" searching for cures to diseases is "sexy" looking for enormous primes is "geeky" These are not my views, but the ones held by the public at large. So I fear that GIMPS will always remain the province of the few, although those who do join will probably stay for longer and be committed to what they are doing. I've been here for six years and I'm sure there are plenty of us who intend to stay here. We have had success here four times; if SETI has had any success, I haven't heard about it. Regards, Ian "E. Weddington" wrote: > > Folding@Home's success: > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/10/021022070813.htm > > Again, they mention SETI@home. As if that were the only other > distributed project out there. *sigh* > -- Ian W Halliday, BA Hons, AAIBF Snr, ATMS, CL +64 27 245 6089 (GMT+13) http://baptism.co.nz ; http://ringbark.livejournal.com -- Word documents not accepted -- see http://baptism.co.nz/word.html _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.ndatech.com/mersenne/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: Crypto scientists crack prime problem, not Redmond journalists
Nathan Ranks wrote: > > Is it just me, or am I missing something? If you multiply any two numbers > together, the resulting number can't be prime since it would be divisible by > both the two numbers used... > > Prime = divisible by itself and 1 Quite so! That's why we are concerned that such an article should be published widely. I apologise unreservedly for any suggestion I may have made that the article was written by anyone in Redmond, and acknowledge Paul's comments on this matter. Regards, Ian -- Ian W Halliday, BA Hons, AAIBF Snr, ATMS, CL +64 27 245 6089 (GMT+12) http://baptism.co.nz ; http://ringbark.livejournal.com Focus On Success -- Word documents not accepted -- see http://baptism.co.nz/word.html _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.ndatech.com/mersenne/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Mersenne: Crypto scientists crack prime problem, not Redmond journalists
In http://msn.com.com/2100-1104-949170.html?type=pt we read Crypto scientists crack prime problem To create encryption keys, RSA uses two huge prime numbers and multiplies them together to produce an even bigger prime. Regards, Ian -- Ian W Halliday, BA Hons, AAIBF Snr, ATMS, CL +64 27 245 6089 (GMT+12) http://baptism.co.nz ; http://ringbark.livejournal.com Focus On Success -- Word documents not accepted -- see http://baptism.co.nz/word.html _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.ndatech.com/mersenne/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: Re: Munich prime party report
> >We discussed the observation (not a conjecture) that so far no two > >consecutive gaps between Mersenne primes (in terms of exponent ratio) > >were greater than two Far be it from me to add to a discussion started under the influence of much beer. However, we note that the exponents of M(13) and M(14) differ by more than a factor of 2, as do the exponents of M(15) and M(16). Similarly for M(35) and M(36) with M(37) and M(38). Conjecture: with very weak evidence. If M(n-2) and M(n-1) are closer in exponent factor than twice and M(n) and M(n+1) are further apart than twice, then M(n+2) and M(n+3) are also further apart than twice. I'll have a crack at restating this hypothesis more formally another day, but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at (and I'm sure you can't prove it wrong yet). Nevertheless, I'm sure that whether true or false, this conjecture probably won't change the world. Regards, and Happy New Year to you all Ian -- Ian W Halliday, BA Hons, MIMIS, AAIBF Snr, ATMB, CL +64 27 245 6089 (GMT+13) http://baptism.co.nz Focus On Success -- Word documents not accepted -- see http://baptism.co.nz/word.html _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.ndatech.com/mersenne/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Mersenne: Meanwhile, in another part of the planet
I'm just quietly reading about the possibly enormous and possibly tiny party to celebrate the discovery of M39. Is there anyone who would care to join me for a couple of quiet beers in Wellington, New Zealand to celebrate the same event? Expressions of interest or flames to me off the list please. Thank you. Regards, Ian -- Ian W Halliday, BA Hons, MIMIS, AAIBF Snr, ATMB, CL +64 27 245 6089 (GMT+13) http://baptism.co.nz Focus On Success -- Word documents not accepted -- see http://baptism.co.nz/word.html _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.ndatech.com/mersenne/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Mersenne: [Fwd: Luke Welsh's Email Address]
Luke, the list owner, is in the process of changing hosting services. I haven't heard from him since he sent me the following, which suggests that the link is dead, but that he will be sorting it out. Regards, Ian Original Message Subject: Luke Welsh's Email Address From: Luke Welsh Hello Everybody-- Well, it looks line my dear, old, original ISP is finally calling it quits. Sad. Soon my personal email address, [EMAIL PROTECTED], will cease to exist. I'll find a new home for my Mersenne pages, link-rot and all. But this may not happen for some time. I will try to get a larger disk quota so I can host the Mersenne-Digest mailing list archives. On the plus side, my spam-o-meter should register somewhat lower :-) S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Mersenne: Accuracy of completion dates.
Joshua Zelinsky wrote: > > Suggestion: the next version of Prime95 should contact the server after > every 10% of an LL test. Based on how long this took, the server would > calculate the probable finishing time. I disagree. I have an old but still half serviceable machine which is still doing double checks. It's a P100 which sits in a cupboard and I only connect it to the net to return results and get new exponents. Its CD drive doesn't work any longer, its speakers don't work any longer, its mouse doesn't work any longer and I have to find a modem cable each month to connect it. Win95 without a mouse isn't too much fun. This PC won't be connecting to the net every 10% but it's still in enough of working order to return about one double check each month or so. When it dies or isn't welcome to do prime95 work in this style any more, it will retire. I suspect that there are other people with old pcs in cupboards doing nothing but prime95 work. I hope so - I'd hate to think I was the only one. Regards, Ian -- Ian W Halliday, BA Hons, MIMIS, AAIBF Snr, ATMB, CL +64 25 245 6089 http://baptism.co.nz Excel in all we do S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
[Fwd: Re: Mersenne: Distributed Computing Mandatory For Juno's Free Users]
>From Nathan, for the list From: Nathan Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Halliday, Ian wrote: > http://au.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/20010203/nbtech/981156900-2685255736.html > describes new conditions for free juno users - once again SETI is cited > as a "successful" example of distributed computing. IIRC, we have had > four successes, they haven't had any... Yes, we have. If GIMPS succeeds yet again, the finder of the prime will get money, and fame within the mathematical community. Ditto if a user of the distributed.net project finds a RC5 key (except less money and more transitory fame). It could be argued that someone who finds /them/ with SETI and is announced as a co-discoverer will not be wanting for fame or money for the rest of his/her life. Additionally, SETI is as likely to make a discovery now as it ever was (read: not very). d.net and GIMPS are both attempting tasks which are orders of magnitude less likely to succeed than those they have completed in the past. As another point, I know many who are in SETI solely for the nice graphical display. I don't know whether GIMPS, given the abstract nature of the work we do, could ever really develop such a display. > > How will the new conditions described in their terms affect us (or any > other voluntary distributed project for that matter) ? I sincerely doubt that many Juno users will stick with that service if Juno ever attempts to fully enforce the terms: "[users permit Juno to] upload such results to Juno's central computers during a subsequent connection, whether initiated by you in the course of using the Service or by the Computational Software." (snip) "Juno may require you to leave your computer turned on at all times, and may replace the 'screen saver' software that runs on your computer while the computer is turned on but you are not using it. " Does that mean that Juno will become angry at subscribers who take their machines down for maintence, or do a reboot mandated by the operating system? My ex-girlfriend from high school and her family use Juno as their free email provider. I sincerely doubt that, if Juno began enforcing these sorts of terms, they would switch to e.g. NetZero or another adware internet provider, and begin using web-based email. The privacy concerns alone of Juno running software quasi-voluntary on customer systems are chilling. I just checked Slashdot, but they've had something up since yesterday: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/02/01/2127239&mode=nested > > > On a different matter, what happened to Lennart's offer of champagne to > the person who guessed a milestone date correctly? Have we reached that > milestone yet? If so, who won? > > Regards, > > Ian Nathan Russell _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Mersenne: Distributed Computing Mandatory For Juno's Free Users
http://au.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/20010203/nbtech/981156900-2685255736.html describes new conditions for free juno users - once again SETI is cited as a "successful" example of distributed computing. IIRC, we have had four successes, they haven't had any... How will the new conditions described in their terms affect us (or any other voluntary distributed project for that matter) ? On a different matter, what happened to Lennart's offer of champagne to the person who guessed a milestone date correctly? Have we reached that milestone yet? If so, who won? Regards, Ian -- Ian W Halliday, BA Hons, MIMIS, AAIBF Snr, ATMB, CL +64 25 245 6089 http://baptism.co.nz Excel in all we do S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Mersenne: List Archive?
"Griffith, Shaun" wrote: > > The New Zealand > mirror page has been moved or removed. > I maintained the New Zealand pages up to the beginning on 1998. Any links to them should have been removed by now. Regards, Ian -- Ian W Halliday, BA Hons, MIMIS, AAIBF Snr, ATMB, CL +64 25 245 6089 http://baptism.co.nz Excel in all we do _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: Spam (bad) and PNG (good!)
At the risk of not being on topic at all, I always thought that PNG is an abbreviation for the nation of Papua New Guinea. I expect page to have images which are jpg or gif. Simply being better doesn't mean it will become either the standard or the most popular. For example, consider VHS v Beta, Explorer v Navigator, SETI v GIMPS... Regards, Ian Robert Deininger wrote: > > I don't even know what PNG is. I sure as heck won't switch browsers to > view the trend-of-the-week. -- Ian W Halliday, BA Hons, MIMIS, AAIBF Snr, ANZCS, ATMB, CL +64 25 245 6089 P O Box 5472, Wellington, New Zealand http://www.baptism.co.nz _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.exu.ilstu.edu/mersenne/faq-mers.txt
Re: Mersenne: GIMPS in Science News
This brings to mind a question I have been considering for a while: Why should it be that the seti@home project has collected such a large number of downloads while gimps has only around 10,000. Is it that the search for prime numbers is perceived to be the domain of geeks while everybody is supposed to be excited about extra-terrestrial life? Or is it because of the underlying perception that mathematics is hard and boring? I've invited some of my real-life friends and colleagues to join gimps, but without success. Some of these people had downloaded the seti client and run it for a while but didn't seem to be impressed by its performance or results. I'm much more excited about gimps, and believe that I am much more likely to find a certain Mersenne prime than evidence about extra-terrestrial life (which would still only be a speculation even so). Humour me and visit http://www.geocities.com/intellectualsuicide/ Regards, Ian -- Aaron Blosser wrote: > At my current job, I manage the SMS stuff for our huge network. Out of > curiousity, I ran a query to see if anyone had prime95.exe or ntprime.exe. > Nope...none. Then I did a search for [EMAIL PROTECTED] and found a bunch... _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Mersenne: Finite, Amicable, Pi...lots of topics
In Unsolved Problems in Number Theory, Richard K Guy says of Mersenne primes: "their number is undoubtedly infinite, but proof is hopelessly beyond reach". He then offers some suggestions for the size of M(x), the number of primes p <= x for which 2^p -1 is prime. Gillies suggested M(x) ~ c ln x Pomerance suggested M(x) ~ c ( ln ln x ) ^ 2 This is very serious indeed, especially for those of us who believe the number of Mersenne primes to be finite. It's a fairly old book in a manner of speaking: in 1981 he poses the question as to whether 2^p - 1 is always square-free. I'm sure this has been discussed here from time to time - did we ever get an answer? In this case, Guy believes that the answer is no, and that it could be settled by computer if you were lucky. I'm still on topic if I talk about perfect numbers, where the sum of the factors of a perfect number n, which I call s(n) is equal to n. However I'm off topic as soon as I start talking about amicable numbers, sometimes called semi-perfect numbers. For a pair of amicable numbers m and n we have s(m) = n and s(n) = m. For example s(220) = 284 while s(284) = 220. I choose to mention these because of the recent mention of hairy and smooth numbers and in the context of Esau and Jacob, also recent players here, as the number 220 is of some significance in their story in Genesis 32:14. The recent heroes in this field are H J J te Riele, who "knows everything about amicable numbers" according to a now forgotten usenet poster and Lee and Madachy, who published "The history and discovery of Amicable Numbers" in the Journal of Recreational Mathematics in 1972, along with an alarmingly long list of then known amicable numbers. (Does anybody know if this journal is still published? When I subscribed to it for a while, though, it wasn't too recreational, and seemed obsessed with repunits for a while.) There are far more amicable pairs known than even perfect numbers, yet Guy's claim on their infinite number or otherwise is, surprisingly, weaker. "It is not known if there are infinitely many, but it is believed that there are." Finally, pi. Along with others, I have been amused by the reputed Alabama legislature decision, and spend a lot of time looking at the urban legends at http://www.snopes.com/ which is one of the most significant sites on the web, possibly second only to http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm ? However, as I believe in the inerrancy of scripture, I obviously have a problem with 1 Kings 7:23. I don't believe either that pi = 3 or that God thinks pi = 3. So, what happens? At http://www.khouse.org/articles/biblestudy/19980401-158.html we can learn that there is a subtle difference in the text from what might be expected in that the word for circumference "qav" has been replaced by the word "qaveh". If we take note of the numerical values associated with these words, qav = 100 + 6, while qaveh = 100 + 6 + 5. Accordingly, we take the implied multiplicand of 3 and extend it by 111/106, which gives an approximation of 333/106, which is 3.141509... which is accurate enough for practical purposes. Possibly not for rocket science, but that's not what we're talking about here. K House probably don't phrase their explanation in the way I would choose, but it nevertheless makes compelling reading from a reasonably mainstream source. Over history, there have been numerous other approximations to the value of pi. Our current culture seems to favour 22/7 as an approximation, and the Biblical approximation above suggests 333/106. However, this is not the best available in three digits, which is, so far as I know, 355/113, which is correct to an astonishing one part in ten million. I understand that in certain quarters, 3 1/7 was not in vogue, with 3 1/8 favoured. What, argued these particular mystics, could be a better number than five squared shared by two cubed? N P Smith asked whether we should be more concerned by those who serious propose answers which are clearly wrong or by those who spend time in repeatedly refuting these spurious claims. As for squaring the circle, another popular pastime, the Greeks noted that a square of side 8 have pretty much the same area. This points to 256/81 or sixteen squared shared by nine squared if you like that sort of thing. It's still not exact. That's what irrational means... I'm sorry to have strayed off topic: at the moment I can't find any legitimate connection between pi and Mersenne numbers - if anybody can do so then obviously I am absolved because this posting will have been on topic after all. I am absolved! Between researching this article and posting it, others have started to explore the possibility of such links. Regards, Ian W Halliday Wellington, New Zealand --- Happiness is just around the corner. - D H Lehmer _ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman
