Re: [Mesa3d-dev] More on Mesa branching / bug-fix model
On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 12:16 -0700, Alex Deucher wrote: > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Keith Whitwell wrote: > > On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 11:54 -0700, Alex Deucher wrote: > >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Brian Paul wrote: > >> > Alex Deucher wrote: > >> >> > >> >> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Ian Romanick > >> >> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > >> >>> Hash: SHA1 > >> >>> > >> >>> Brian Paul wrote: > >> >>> > >> The main problem right now is we have 3 active branches (master, 7.6 > >> and 7.5) and it can be confusing. I wasn't really planning on another > >> 7.5.x release until Eric cherry-picked a bunch of changes to it. I'm > >> still not sure I'll release 7.5.2 in any case. > >> > >> Ian, I'd be happy to see the 7.6 release made at any time. At that > >> time, I'm inclined to abandon the 7.5 branch. Then we'll just have > >> master and one branch to think about. That's pretty easy. > >> >>> > >> >>> That sounds good. How about if we release 7.6 and 7.5.2 > >> >>> "simultaneously" at XDC. There are a couple bugs that I want to fix > >> >>> before 7.6 ships, and I think Eric has a couple as well. He's going to > >> >>> be out next week, so I want to give him a chance to wrap things up. I > >> >>> expect progress to be slowed during the week of LPC. :) > >> >> > >> >> There have been a bunch of r600 fixes to master since 7.6 was > >> >> branched. If I move new r600 devel to the 7.6 branch, what's the > >> >> preferred way to pull the previous r600 changes in master over to the > >> >> 7.6 branch? > >> > > >> > Cherry picking should work. > >> > > >> > But remember that new development should occur on master while bug fixes > >> > should go on the 7.6 or 7.5 branches. I guess in some cases "bug fixing" > >> > looks like "new development"... > >> > >> It's tough with r600 since it's a new driver the line between bug > >> fixes and new features is pretty hazy. > > > > Has r600 reached the level of being a supported/stable release? If the > > line is hazy, then I would say it hasn't and you're really still in a > > development cycle, in which case master is still the place where that > > happens. > > I guess the question is that the current r600 code in the 7.6 branch > is much less stable than the code in master. But for 7.6 I guess we > can just say r600 isn't stable yet and not built it by default. I guess if you feel that you are aiming for stabilization in the 7.6 timeframe, ie. that you want distro's that ship 7.6 to build and install the driver from that branch then you could jump to the 7.6 branch and track that. I don't know exactly what the timeframe for the 7.6 release is, but it could be plausible if you're that close. Another question is when 7.7 is anticipated to be - if it's a long way out, that may help you decide if it's time to call the thing feature-complete and move to a largely stabilization mode. Keith -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Mesa3d-dev mailing list Mesa3d-dev@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mesa3d-dev
Re: [Mesa3d-dev] More on Mesa branching / bug-fix model
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Keith Whitwell wrote: > On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 11:54 -0700, Alex Deucher wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Brian Paul wrote: >> > Alex Deucher wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Ian Romanick >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> >>> Hash: SHA1 >> >>> >> >>> Brian Paul wrote: >> >>> >> The main problem right now is we have 3 active branches (master, 7.6 >> and 7.5) and it can be confusing. I wasn't really planning on another >> 7.5.x release until Eric cherry-picked a bunch of changes to it. I'm >> still not sure I'll release 7.5.2 in any case. >> >> Ian, I'd be happy to see the 7.6 release made at any time. At that >> time, I'm inclined to abandon the 7.5 branch. Then we'll just have >> master and one branch to think about. That's pretty easy. >> >>> >> >>> That sounds good. How about if we release 7.6 and 7.5.2 >> >>> "simultaneously" at XDC. There are a couple bugs that I want to fix >> >>> before 7.6 ships, and I think Eric has a couple as well. He's going to >> >>> be out next week, so I want to give him a chance to wrap things up. I >> >>> expect progress to be slowed during the week of LPC. :) >> >> >> >> There have been a bunch of r600 fixes to master since 7.6 was >> >> branched. If I move new r600 devel to the 7.6 branch, what's the >> >> preferred way to pull the previous r600 changes in master over to the >> >> 7.6 branch? >> > >> > Cherry picking should work. >> > >> > But remember that new development should occur on master while bug fixes >> > should go on the 7.6 or 7.5 branches. I guess in some cases "bug fixing" >> > looks like "new development"... >> >> It's tough with r600 since it's a new driver the line between bug >> fixes and new features is pretty hazy. > > Has r600 reached the level of being a supported/stable release? If the > line is hazy, then I would say it hasn't and you're really still in a > development cycle, in which case master is still the place where that > happens. I guess the question is that the current r600 code in the 7.6 branch is much less stable than the code in master. But for 7.6 I guess we can just say r600 isn't stable yet and not built it by default. Alex -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Mesa3d-dev mailing list Mesa3d-dev@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mesa3d-dev
Re: [Mesa3d-dev] More on Mesa branching / bug-fix model
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Keith Whitwell wrote: > On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 11:54 -0700, Alex Deucher wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Brian Paul wrote: >> > Alex Deucher wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Ian Romanick >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> >>> Hash: SHA1 >> >>> >> >>> Brian Paul wrote: >> >>> >> The main problem right now is we have 3 active branches (master, 7.6 >> and 7.5) and it can be confusing. I wasn't really planning on another >> 7.5.x release until Eric cherry-picked a bunch of changes to it. I'm >> still not sure I'll release 7.5.2 in any case. >> >> Ian, I'd be happy to see the 7.6 release made at any time. At that >> time, I'm inclined to abandon the 7.5 branch. Then we'll just have >> master and one branch to think about. That's pretty easy. >> >>> >> >>> That sounds good. How about if we release 7.6 and 7.5.2 >> >>> "simultaneously" at XDC. There are a couple bugs that I want to fix >> >>> before 7.6 ships, and I think Eric has a couple as well. He's going to >> >>> be out next week, so I want to give him a chance to wrap things up. I >> >>> expect progress to be slowed during the week of LPC. :) >> >> >> >> There have been a bunch of r600 fixes to master since 7.6 was >> >> branched. If I move new r600 devel to the 7.6 branch, what's the >> >> preferred way to pull the previous r600 changes in master over to the >> >> 7.6 branch? >> > >> > Cherry picking should work. >> > >> > But remember that new development should occur on master while bug fixes >> > should go on the 7.6 or 7.5 branches. I guess in some cases "bug fixing" >> > looks like "new development"... >> >> It's tough with r600 since it's a new driver the line between bug >> fixes and new features is pretty hazy. > > Has r600 reached the level of being a supported/stable release? If the > line is hazy, then I would say it hasn't and you're really still in a > development cycle, in which case master is still the place where that > happens. Probably not quite yet. It's close though. Alex -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Mesa3d-dev mailing list Mesa3d-dev@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mesa3d-dev
Re: [Mesa3d-dev] More on Mesa branching / bug-fix model
On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 11:54 -0700, Alex Deucher wrote: > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Brian Paul wrote: > > Alex Deucher wrote: > >> > >> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Ian Romanick wrote: > >>> > >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > >>> Hash: SHA1 > >>> > >>> Brian Paul wrote: > >>> > The main problem right now is we have 3 active branches (master, 7.6 > and 7.5) and it can be confusing. I wasn't really planning on another > 7.5.x release until Eric cherry-picked a bunch of changes to it. I'm > still not sure I'll release 7.5.2 in any case. > > Ian, I'd be happy to see the 7.6 release made at any time. At that > time, I'm inclined to abandon the 7.5 branch. Then we'll just have > master and one branch to think about. That's pretty easy. > >>> > >>> That sounds good. How about if we release 7.6 and 7.5.2 > >>> "simultaneously" at XDC. There are a couple bugs that I want to fix > >>> before 7.6 ships, and I think Eric has a couple as well. He's going to > >>> be out next week, so I want to give him a chance to wrap things up. I > >>> expect progress to be slowed during the week of LPC. :) > >> > >> There have been a bunch of r600 fixes to master since 7.6 was > >> branched. If I move new r600 devel to the 7.6 branch, what's the > >> preferred way to pull the previous r600 changes in master over to the > >> 7.6 branch? > > > > Cherry picking should work. > > > > But remember that new development should occur on master while bug fixes > > should go on the 7.6 or 7.5 branches. I guess in some cases "bug fixing" > > looks like "new development"... > > It's tough with r600 since it's a new driver the line between bug > fixes and new features is pretty hazy. Has r600 reached the level of being a supported/stable release? If the line is hazy, then I would say it hasn't and you're really still in a development cycle, in which case master is still the place where that happens. Keith -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Mesa3d-dev mailing list Mesa3d-dev@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mesa3d-dev
Re: [Mesa3d-dev] More on Mesa branching / bug-fix model
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Brian Paul wrote: > Alex Deucher wrote: >> >> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Ian Romanick wrote: >>> >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> Brian Paul wrote: >>> The main problem right now is we have 3 active branches (master, 7.6 and 7.5) and it can be confusing. I wasn't really planning on another 7.5.x release until Eric cherry-picked a bunch of changes to it. I'm still not sure I'll release 7.5.2 in any case. Ian, I'd be happy to see the 7.6 release made at any time. At that time, I'm inclined to abandon the 7.5 branch. Then we'll just have master and one branch to think about. That's pretty easy. >>> >>> That sounds good. How about if we release 7.6 and 7.5.2 >>> "simultaneously" at XDC. There are a couple bugs that I want to fix >>> before 7.6 ships, and I think Eric has a couple as well. He's going to >>> be out next week, so I want to give him a chance to wrap things up. I >>> expect progress to be slowed during the week of LPC. :) >> >> There have been a bunch of r600 fixes to master since 7.6 was >> branched. If I move new r600 devel to the 7.6 branch, what's the >> preferred way to pull the previous r600 changes in master over to the >> 7.6 branch? > > Cherry picking should work. > > But remember that new development should occur on master while bug fixes > should go on the 7.6 or 7.5 branches. I guess in some cases "bug fixing" > looks like "new development"... It's tough with r600 since it's a new driver the line between bug fixes and new features is pretty hazy. Alex -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Mesa3d-dev mailing list Mesa3d-dev@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mesa3d-dev
Re: [Mesa3d-dev] More on Mesa branching / bug-fix model
Alex Deucher wrote: > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Ian Romanick wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Brian Paul wrote: >> >>> The main problem right now is we have 3 active branches (master, 7.6 >>> and 7.5) and it can be confusing. I wasn't really planning on another >>> 7.5.x release until Eric cherry-picked a bunch of changes to it. I'm >>> still not sure I'll release 7.5.2 in any case. >>> >>> Ian, I'd be happy to see the 7.6 release made at any time. At that >>> time, I'm inclined to abandon the 7.5 branch. Then we'll just have >>> master and one branch to think about. That's pretty easy. >> That sounds good. How about if we release 7.6 and 7.5.2 >> "simultaneously" at XDC. There are a couple bugs that I want to fix >> before 7.6 ships, and I think Eric has a couple as well. He's going to >> be out next week, so I want to give him a chance to wrap things up. I >> expect progress to be slowed during the week of LPC. :) > > There have been a bunch of r600 fixes to master since 7.6 was > branched. If I move new r600 devel to the 7.6 branch, what's the > preferred way to pull the previous r600 changes in master over to the > 7.6 branch? Cherry picking should work. But remember that new development should occur on master while bug fixes should go on the 7.6 or 7.5 branches. I guess in some cases "bug fixing" looks like "new development"... -Brian -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Mesa3d-dev mailing list Mesa3d-dev@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mesa3d-dev
Re: [Mesa3d-dev] More on Mesa branching / bug-fix model
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Ian Romanick wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Brian Paul wrote: > >> The main problem right now is we have 3 active branches (master, 7.6 >> and 7.5) and it can be confusing. I wasn't really planning on another >> 7.5.x release until Eric cherry-picked a bunch of changes to it. I'm >> still not sure I'll release 7.5.2 in any case. >> >> Ian, I'd be happy to see the 7.6 release made at any time. At that >> time, I'm inclined to abandon the 7.5 branch. Then we'll just have >> master and one branch to think about. That's pretty easy. > > That sounds good. How about if we release 7.6 and 7.5.2 > "simultaneously" at XDC. There are a couple bugs that I want to fix > before 7.6 ships, and I think Eric has a couple as well. He's going to > be out next week, so I want to give him a chance to wrap things up. I > expect progress to be slowed during the week of LPC. :) There have been a bunch of r600 fixes to master since 7.6 was branched. If I move new r600 devel to the 7.6 branch, what's the preferred way to pull the previous r600 changes in master over to the 7.6 branch? Alex -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf ___ Mesa3d-dev mailing list Mesa3d-dev@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mesa3d-dev
Re: [Mesa3d-dev] More on Mesa branching / bug-fix model
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Brian Paul wrote: > The main problem right now is we have 3 active branches (master, 7.6 > and 7.5) and it can be confusing. I wasn't really planning on another > 7.5.x release until Eric cherry-picked a bunch of changes to it. I'm > still not sure I'll release 7.5.2 in any case. > > Ian, I'd be happy to see the 7.6 release made at any time. At that > time, I'm inclined to abandon the 7.5 branch. Then we'll just have > master and one branch to think about. That's pretty easy. That sounds good. How about if we release 7.6 and 7.5.2 "simultaneously" at XDC. There are a couple bugs that I want to fix before 7.6 ships, and I think Eric has a couple as well. He's going to be out next week, so I want to give him a chance to wrap things up. I expect progress to be slowed during the week of LPC. :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkqsq2oACgkQX1gOwKyEAw/yjACeNeVHm6k7ToFkYtZ1T1S+G4w9 EUsAn1ST+Os0QTlgaQnZjDpZrtb26Ycv =YuY3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Mesa3d-dev mailing list Mesa3d-dev@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mesa3d-dev
[Mesa3d-dev] More on Mesa branching / bug-fix model
[I'm renaming this email thread] Ian Romanick wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Eric Anholt wrote: >> On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 10:37 -0700, Ian Romanick wrote: >>> Eric Anholt wrote: Module: Mesa Branch: master Commit: 7c0152fbaeb21ab423a9de339b85c54d1713432b URL: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/commit/?id=7c0152fbaeb21ab423a9de339b85c54d1713432b Author: Eric Anholt Date: Thu Sep 10 09:44:30 2009 -0700 i965: Enable loops in the VS. Passes piglit glsl-vs-loop testcase. Bug #20171 >>> I see this went into master. Is this also a candidate for 7.5 or 7.6? >>> If so, it should have gone there first. I can take care of the >>> cherry-picking and merging while you're on vacation. >> For the record, I hate that development model. It means that I have to >> first identify the earliest branch a change could apply to before >> working. Or I have to do a dance more complicated than just >> cherry-picking after the fact to land my change after I develop it on > > I somewhat agree. However, this analysis needs to be done at some point > anyway. Right? It either gets done up-front, or it gets done when > trying to determine whether to cherry-pick back. As Mesa project leader, I *very* seldom tell people how to work or what to do, but in this case I'm strongly advocating the "fix bugs on the bug-fix branch and merge forward" model. The main problem right now is we have 3 active branches (master, 7.6 and 7.5) and it can be confusing. I wasn't really planning on another 7.5.x release until Eric cherry-picked a bunch of changes to it. I'm still not sure I'll release 7.5.2 in any case. Ian, I'd be happy to see the 7.6 release made at any time. At that time, I'm inclined to abandon the 7.5 branch. Then we'll just have master and one branch to think about. That's pretty easy. I've been finding the "work on a branch" approach to be simpler than the cherry-picking model. I can fix a bug in one place then pretty much forget about it knowing that the branch will periodically get merged forward and carry along all my fixes. There's seldom conflicts, and off-hand, I can't think of an case where a fix from the 7.5 branch (for example) has broken master. >> master. It hurts the idle, "how hard will this little thing be" >> experimenting that I do a lot. And given the number of commits of >> merges with conflicts we're seeing, I'm doubting that the merges forward >> are seeing much testing. > > I agree with the testing comment 100%. > > Testing in Mesa has always been weak, and the branch juggling is just > exacerbating the issue. I'd say Mesa testing is better than ever with Intel's and VMware's continuous testing (and kitware/vtk dashboard), new piglit and glean tests, etc. But as far as testing goes, I haven't found the branching model to cause any more disruption than cherry-picking. > Perhaps we should have a session at XDC to discuss this. Unfortunately, I won't be there. >> I much prefer periodically analyzing my area and cherry-picking many >> patches after they've had a chance to settle, regression testing the >> batch all at once, and giving stable something that works. > > This echoes the arguments that I made when the branching discussion > first happened. The counter-argument that was made, which does have > merit, is that this analysis and cherry-picking either doesn't happen or > happens eons after the code was originally committed. By that time > nobody knows if it should be brought back or not. There were several > patches that I asked people about for 7.5, and nobody had any idea. Yeah, cherry-picking is certainly useful sometimes, but it seems like a very ad-hoc way to apply changes to multiple branches. Fixes can get lost, they appear in multiple branches with different commit IDs, etc. The branch merge model just seems so much more organized and safe. Eric, I'm sorry to upset you with this policy (I really appreciate all the good work you do) but I'd like to ask you to try the branch model for a while. If it really turns out to be a big problem for us (which I doubt) we could revisit the policy when the 7.7.x branch is created. -Brian -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Mesa3d-dev mailing list Mesa3d-dev@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mesa3d-dev
