Re: Dumb download question...

[Scott Raney]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, David Bovill wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Kevin...
> > 
> >   so what do you think, is it technically possible for a PC or Unix system
> >   to save this invisible Mac-specific information, so that it magically
> >   appears on the Mac without having to do or use anything else? Still can't
> >   see the technical problem with Metacard building this cross-platform
> >   support feature in.
> > 
> > Scott?
> 
> On 3/15/00 9:36 AM, Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >There are no other ways.  The MacOS file system has three places where
> >it can store information in a file, and DOS and UNIX only have one.
> >And there's no way to make one thing do the work of three.
> 
> I know it doesn't help now, but MacOS X will end this. Its foundation is 
> UNIX, and as such, it supports only one place, as do DOS and other UNIX 
> OSes. Instead, MacOS X will use the concept I think they call a package, 
> which is really a folder pretending to be a file. The folder can contain 
> multiple files, but not appear to be anything other than a single 
> document/application to an ordinary user. That way it can store any 
> number of different pieces and formats of information, without being 
> incompatible.
> 
> Scott, will it be a big deal for MetaCard to support packages? I don't 
> know if any other UNIX (besides NeXTStep/OpenStep) uses this concept.

This is roughly equivalent to my option #1: hide the files.  It
remains to be seen how well this is really going to work, which
probably mostly depends on how many Unix people come to Mac OS X and
expect it to work like other Unix systems.  For example, if you run
"grep somestring somefile" it ain't going to look in that file for
that string, which is something serious Unix users aren't going to be
too happy about.

We're just starting down the road to trying to integrate the routines
common to the other Unix platforms with Mac OS X, and so far it's not
looking like it's going to be easy.  Better only count on MetaCard on
Mac OS X being MetaCard on a better Mac OS, which is apparently how
Apple looks at it.  It may eventually turn out to be the best of both
worlds, but it may turn out that Apple is successful and the Unix
aspect of Mac OS X will be vestigial, if it's available at all...
  Regards,
Scott

> gc
> 
> 
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> 


Scott Raney  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.metacard.com
MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...


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Re: Dumb download question...

[Geoff Canyon]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, David Bovill wrote:

> Thanks Kevin...
> 
>   so what do you think, is it technically possible for a PC or Unix system
>   to save this invisible Mac-specific information, so that it magically
>   appears on the Mac without having to do or use anything else? Still can't
>   see the technical problem with Metacard building this cross-platform
>   support feature in.
> 
> Scott?

On 3/15/00 9:36 AM, Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>There are no other ways.  The MacOS file system has three places where
>it can store information in a file, and DOS and UNIX only have one.
>And there's no way to make one thing do the work of three.

I know it doesn't help now, but MacOS X will end this. Its foundation is 
UNIX, and as such, it supports only one place, as do DOS and other UNIX 
OSes. Instead, MacOS X will use the concept I think they call a package, 
which is really a folder pretending to be a file. The folder can contain 
multiple files, but not appear to be anything other than a single 
document/application to an ordinary user. That way it can store any 
number of different pieces and formats of information, without being 
incompatible.

Scott, will it be a big deal for MetaCard to support packages? I don't 
know if any other UNIX (besides NeXTStep/OpenStep) uses this concept.

gc


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Re: Dumb download question...

[Scott Raney]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, David Bovill wrote:

> Thanks Kevin...
> 
>   so what do you think, is it technically possible for a PC or Unix system
>   to save this invisible Mac-specific information, so that it magically
>   appears on the Mac without having to do or use anything else? Still can't
>   see the technical problem with Metacard building this cross-platform
>   support feature in.
> 
> Scott?

There are PC and UNIX tools that allow you to store Mac files on them,
but all they do is create a hidden "mirror" directory where the file
information and resource forks are stored.  It's a hack, and doesn't
work so hot when you try to deal with those Mac "files" using regular
DOS or UNIX tools.  The other ways of doing this are to convert the
files to BinHex or MacBinary format, both of which allow the files to
be moved around normally, but then you can't open and read them like
you would normal files, even if they only have stuff in the data fork
(as is the case for MetaCard stacks).  Worse, MacOS doesn't even have
support for these two formats built in, so you have to use some other
program to convert them to real MacOS files.

There are no other ways.  The MacOS file system has three places where
it can store information in a file, and DOS and UNIX only have one.
And there's no way to make one thing do the work of three.
  Regards,
Scott


Scott Raney  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.metacard.com
MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...


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Re: Dumb download question...

[David Bovill]

Thanks Kevin...

  so what do you think, is it technically possible for a PC or Unix system
  to save this invisible Mac-specific information, so that it magically
  appears on the Mac without having to do or use anything else? Still can't
  see the technical problem with Metacard building this cross-platform
  support feature in.

Scott?

> From: Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:49:45 +
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Dumb download question...
> 
> On 14/3/00 12:02 pm, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> I guess what I am imagining is that the Mac specific file information
>> (resource forks, fields in the file header) are effectively invisible on
>> other platforms. But the file still works there, so saving this information
>> on all platforms may be of no use to these platforms until such time as they
>> transfer the file to a Mac.
> 
> One general solution to this problem is to network your Mac and PC with PC
> Maclan.  Files transfered over the network and then transfered back maintain
> their creator types, and can pretty much be accessed by the Mac on the PC
> volume over the network as Mac files.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.xworlds.com/>
> Cross Worlds Computing, MetaCard Distributors, Custom Development.
> Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.
> 
> 
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
> 


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Re: Dumb download question...

[Kevin Miller]

On 14/3/00 12:02 pm, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I guess what I am imagining is that the Mac specific file information
> (resource forks, fields in the file header) are effectively invisible on
> other platforms. But the file still works there, so saving this information
> on all platforms may be of no use to these platforms until such time as they
> transfer the file to a Mac.

One general solution to this problem is to network your Mac and PC with PC
Maclan.  Files transfered over the network and then transfered back maintain
their creator types, and can pretty much be accessed by the Mac on the PC
volume over the network as Mac files.

Regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Cross Worlds Computing, MetaCard Distributors, Custom Development.
Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.


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Re: Dumb download question...

[David Bovill]

I guess what I am imagining is that the Mac specific file information
(resource forks, fields in the file header) are effectively invisible on
other platforms. But the file still works there, so saving this information
on all platforms may be of no use to these platforms until such time as they
transfer the file to a Mac.

> From: "Steven D'Aprano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:30:14 +1100
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Dumb download question...
> 
> David Bovill wrote:
> 
>> At the risk of suffering everlasting shame, here is another:
>> on the Mac, when you set the file type and creator types with
>> whatever utility, aren't you adding a resource to the resource
>> fork of the file.
> 
> Sort of. You are actually changing two fields in the file header, which
> all Mac files have regardless of whether or not they contain a resource
> fork. There usually is an associated resource with the same name as the
> creator somewhere (usually inside the application) but that is a
> seperate issue.
> 
>> Why is there no way of adding this same piece of binary
>> information to the file when it is saved on other platforms?
> 
> Because other platforms (ie DOS, Windows, Unix) have neither the
> resource fork nor the creator/type fields. (There can be creator-type
> data for files, eg .exe files under DOS all start with "MZ" but this is
> stored inside the file, not seperately.)
> 
> Other platforms use all sorts of tricks to associate data files with
> executables, but at the end of the day they are all *tricks*. Only on
> the Mac are the creator and type of a file seperate pieces of
> information from either the file name or the internal contents of the
> file.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven D'Aprano
> 
> ==
> M.B. Sales Pty LtdPh:  +61 3 9460-5244
> A.C.N. 005-964-796Fax: +61 3 9462-1161
> 
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> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
> 


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Re: Dumb download question...

[Steven D'Aprano]

David Bovill wrote:

> At the risk of suffering everlasting shame, here is another: 
> on the Mac, when you set the file type and creator types with 
> whatever utility, aren't you adding a resource to the resource 
> fork of the file. 

Sort of. You are actually changing two fields in the file header, which
all Mac files have regardless of whether or not they contain a resource
fork. There usually is an associated resource with the same name as the
creator somewhere (usually inside the application) but that is a
seperate issue.

> Why is there no way of adding this same piece of binary 
> information to the file when it is saved on other platforms?

Because other platforms (ie DOS, Windows, Unix) have neither the
resource fork nor the creator/type fields. (There can be creator-type
data for files, eg .exe files under DOS all start with "MZ" but this is
stored inside the file, not seperately.)

Other platforms use all sorts of tricks to associate data files with
executables, but at the end of the day they are all *tricks*. Only on
the Mac are the creator and type of a file seperate pieces of
information from either the file name or the internal contents of the
file.


-- 
Steven D'Aprano

==
M.B. Sales Pty LtdPh:  +61 3 9460-5244
A.C.N. 005-964-796Fax: +61 3 9462-1161

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Re: Dumb download question...

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 3:04 PM -0800 3/13/2000, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>At the risk of suffering everlasting shame, here is another: on the Mac,
>when you set the file type and creator types with whatever utility, aren't
>you adding a resource to the resource fork of the file. Why is there no way
>of adding this same piece of binary information to the file when it is saved
>on other platforms?

It's basically a problem of differing file structures. Mac files consist of
two parts (resource fork and data fork) plus meta information. (Actually, a
file can be missing the data or resource fork.) The type and creator
signatures are part of the meta information.

A file on another platform consists of (what on the Mac would be) the data
fork, with no resource fork, and no meta information other than the name.
There's no place to store the type and creator signatures.

In theory, this information could be stored somewhere in a PC or Unix file,
but there's no mechanism for pulling it out of the data fork and setting
the meta information correctly when the file is moved to a Mac, so there's
not much point.

--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com



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Re: Dumb download question...

[David Bovill]

Thanks everyone for the help:  dumb questions are often the most useful -:)

At the risk of suffering everlasting shame, here is another: on the Mac,
when you set the file type and creator types with whatever utility, aren't
you adding a resource to the resource fork of the file. Why is there no way
of adding this same piece of binary information to the file when it is saved
on other platforms?

> From: Mark Talluto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 22:57:43 -0800
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Dumb download question...
> 
> 
> 
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:10:14 -0800 (PST)
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: Digest metacard.v003.n277
>> 
>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>> 
>>> At 11:30 AM -0800 3/10/2000, Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> architecture of the file systems on those other OSs.  What would be
>>>> nice would be if there was some optional way for MacOS to map file
>>>> extensions to file types/creator codes when it's reading a PC floppy
>>>> or an ISO 9660 format CD.
>>> 
>>> You mean, like File Exchange (nee PC Exchange)?
>>> 
>>> Maybe a reference to this utility could be placed in the FAQ on
>>> metacard.com. You might also check with Apple DTS to see whether you can
>>> request a Metacard/.mc mapping be included with the default mappings in
>>> File Exchange.
>> 
>> Good idea.  Not sure why this didn't ever come up the last few times
>> we've had this discussion.  Maybe people were transfering files some
>> way other that with PC floppies?  Does this work when transfering
>> files with SoftWindows and/or VPC?
>> Regards,
>> Scott
> 
> My tests show that when either dragging a PC created stack off of VPC to the
> Mac or copying the file to a shared folder, the file comes over as a PC
> file.  You still need to set is type/creator codes.
> 
> -Mark Talluto
> 
> 
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
> 


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Re: Dumb download question...

[Mark Talluto]

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:10:14 -0800 (PST)
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Digest metacard.v003.n277
> 
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
> 
>> At 11:30 AM -0800 3/10/2000, Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> architecture of the file systems on those other OSs.  What would be
>>> nice would be if there was some optional way for MacOS to map file
>>> extensions to file types/creator codes when it's reading a PC floppy
>>> or an ISO 9660 format CD.
>> 
>> You mean, like File Exchange (nee PC Exchange)?
>> 
>> Maybe a reference to this utility could be placed in the FAQ on
>> metacard.com. You might also check with Apple DTS to see whether you can
>> request a Metacard/.mc mapping be included with the default mappings in
>> File Exchange.
> 
> Good idea.  Not sure why this didn't ever come up the last few times
> we've had this discussion.  Maybe people were transfering files some
> way other that with PC floppies?  Does this work when transfering
> files with SoftWindows and/or VPC?
> Regards,
> Scott

My tests show that when either dragging a PC created stack off of VPC to the
Mac or copying the file to a shared folder, the file comes over as a PC
file.  You still need to set is type/creator codes.

-Mark Talluto


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Re: Dumb download question...

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 5:10 PM -0800 3/11/2000, Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>[File Exchange]
>
>Not sure why this didn't ever come up the last few times
>we've had this discussion.  Maybe people were transfering files some
>way other that with PC floppies?  Does this work when transfering
>files with SoftWindows and/or VPC?

I don't know about emulators, but it does seem to work for downloads (they
get the correct type and creator associated with the extension).

--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com



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Re: Dumb download question...

[Scott Raney]

On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 11:30 AM -0800 3/10/2000, Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >architecture of the file systems on those other OSs.  What would be
> >nice would be if there was some optional way for MacOS to map file
> >extensions to file types/creator codes when it's reading a PC floppy
> >or an ISO 9660 format CD.
> 
> You mean, like File Exchange (nee PC Exchange)?
> 
> Maybe a reference to this utility could be placed in the FAQ on
> metacard.com. You might also check with Apple DTS to see whether you can
> request a Metacard/.mc mapping be included with the default mappings in
> File Exchange.

Good idea.  Not sure why this didn't ever come up the last few times
we've had this discussion.  Maybe people were transfering files some
way other that with PC floppies?  Does this work when transfering
files with SoftWindows and/or VPC?
  Regards,
Scott

> --
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> 
> 
> 
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
> 


Scott Raney  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.metacard.com
MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...


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Re: Dumb download question...

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 11:30 AM -0800 3/10/2000, Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>architecture of the file systems on those other OSs.  What would be
>nice would be if there was some optional way for MacOS to map file
>extensions to file types/creator codes when it's reading a PC floppy
>or an ISO 9660 format CD.

You mean, like File Exchange (nee PC Exchange)?

Maybe a reference to this utility could be placed in the FAQ on
metacard.com. You might also check with Apple DTS to see whether you can
request a Metacard/.mc mapping be included with the default mappings in
File Exchange.

--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com



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Re: Dumb download question...

[Geoff Canyon]

On 3/10/00 9:43 AM, Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>What would be
>nice would be if there was some optional way for MacOS to map file
>extensions to file types/creator codes when it's reading a PC floppy
>or an ISO 9660 format CD.

Control Panels-File Exchange. Add a new entry, type mc, select MetaCard, 
and you're done. Works off floppies, at least--haven't tried a cd, but it 
should work. I don't know why I didn't think of this before--I, too, have 
a file typer just for converting MetaCard files.

gc

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your child can learn to read using the classics of children's literature.
Check out C.D. Caterpillar: 



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Re: Dumb download question...

[Scott Raney]

On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, David Bovill wrote:

> So can't you get the Metacard engine to do this as a default? Surely this
> does not require, system level stuff from the Mac?

I think you missed my point.  There is no way to even *store* the file
or creator code on floppies or CDROMs produced on DOS/Windows or UNIX
systems.  Doesn't have anything to do with MetaCard, it's just the
architecture of the file systems on those other OSs.  What would be
nice would be if there was some optional way for MacOS to map file
extensions to file types/creator codes when it's reading a PC floppy
or an ISO 9660 format CD.  Programs like Fetch can do this for FTP
downloads.  But for now, you have to use some sort of file typing
utility to set these bits if you move a file from a Windows or UNIX
system to a Mac.
  Regards,
Scott

> > From: Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:15:24 -0700 (MST)
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Dumb download question...
> > 
> > On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, David Bovill wrote:
> > 
> >> Got you. In my case ZipIt tries to convert CR to LF, and I had to turn this
> >> option off...
> >> 
> >> Does this mean that for disk based transfers, the file/creator types will be
> >> set correctly, whichever platform the movie is saved on?
> > 
> > No: There is no support for file or creator types in the media used on
> > UNIX and Windows systems.  But at least you have to work harder to get
> > a program to screw it up in this case (Easy Open and MacLink will
> > still do this, if somehow the Finder gets the idea that the file needs
> > to be "translated" before sending it to some word processor).
> > Scott


Scott Raney  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.metacard.com
MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...


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Re: Dumb download question...

[David Bovill]

So can't you get the Metacard engine to do this as a default? Surely this
does not require, system level stuff from the Mac?

> From: Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:15:24 -0700 (MST)
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Dumb download question...
> 
> On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, David Bovill wrote:
> 
>> Got you. In my case ZipIt tries to convert CR to LF, and I had to turn this
>> option off...
>> 
>> Does this mean that for disk based transfers, the file/creator types will be
>> set correctly, whichever platform the movie is saved on?
> 
> No: There is no support for file or creator types in the media used on
> UNIX and Windows systems.  But at least you have to work harder to get
> a program to screw it up in this case (Easy Open and MacLink will
> still do this, if somehow the Finder gets the idea that the file needs
> to be "translated" before sending it to some word processor).
> Scott
> 
> 
> Scott Raney  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.metacard.com
> MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...
> 
> 
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
> 


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Re: Dumb download question...

[Scott Raney]

On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, David Bovill wrote:

> Got you. In my case ZipIt tries to convert CR to LF, and I had to turn this
> option off...
> 
> Does this mean that for disk based transfers, the file/creator types will be
> set correctly, whichever platform the movie is saved on?

No: There is no support for file or creator types in the media used on
UNIX and Windows systems.  But at least you have to work harder to get
a program to screw it up in this case (Easy Open and MacLink will
still do this, if somehow the Finder gets the idea that the file needs
to be "translated" before sending it to some word processor).
  Scott


Scott Raney  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.metacard.com
MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...


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Re: Dumb download question...

[David Bovill]

Got you. In my case ZipIt tries to convert CR to LF, and I had to turn this
option off...

Does this mean that for disk based transfers, the file/creator types will be
set correctly, whichever platform the movie is saved on?

> From: Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:55:03 -0700 (MST)
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Dumb download question...
> 
> On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, David Bovill wrote:
> 
>> Am I right in thinking that a MetaCard file saved as a Mac file, and the
>> right extension will open without any problem on all platforms?
> 
> Yes, assuming you get it to those other platforms using a binary-mode
> transfer.
> 
>> If so does it not make sense to make this the default behaviour for saving
>> on all platforms?
> 
> There seems to be some confusion here: the problem is that many
> programs try to be "smart" and autodetect what kind of file is being
> transferred (or decompressed) and do the appropriate conversions (CR
> to LF or CRLF plus character set conversions in some cases).  As it
> turns out, the header on MetaCard stacks is plain text (required so
> you can run them from the command line on UNIX systems), which
> confuses those "smart" programs.  So you have to out-smart them and
> force them to not do any sort of conversion on the files.
> Regards,
> Scott
> 
> 
> Scott Raney  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.metacard.com
> MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...
> 
> 
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
> 


Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.

Re: Dumb download question...

[Scott Raney]

On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, David Bovill wrote:

> Am I right in thinking that a MetaCard file saved as a Mac file, and the
> right extension will open without any problem on all platforms?

Yes, assuming you get it to those other platforms using a binary-mode
transfer.

> If so does it not make sense to make this the default behaviour for saving
> on all platforms?

There seems to be some confusion here: the problem is that many
programs try to be "smart" and autodetect what kind of file is being
transferred (or decompressed) and do the appropriate conversions (CR
to LF or CRLF plus character set conversions in some cases).  As it
turns out, the header on MetaCard stacks is plain text (required so
you can run them from the command line on UNIX systems), which
confuses those "smart" programs.  So you have to out-smart them and
force them to not do any sort of conversion on the files.
  Regards,
Scott


Scott Raney  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.metacard.com
MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...


Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.

Re: Dumb download question...

[David Bovill]

Am I right in thinking that a MetaCard file saved as a Mac file, and the
right extension will open without any problem on all platforms?

If so does it not make sense to make this the default behaviour for saving
on all platforms?

> From: psahores <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 13:34:43 +0100
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Dumb download question...
> 
> Kevin Miller wrote:
>> 
>> On 8/3/00 5:31 pm, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Tried again to download the mchttpd stacks to my mac, cos I was thinking of
>>> replacing Apache. It's a nice little zip file, which transfers fine. I
>>> unstuff
>>> the thing and I get the folders and files all nicely arranged on my desktop.
>>> OK, so the stacks look like text files and I need to convert the file and
>>> creator types for the Mac, which i do with the nice "mcstack_importer.mc"
>>> utility.
>>> 
>>> But I can't open it from within Metacard, and if I try to go to the stack I
>>> get:
>>> 
>>> "stack was corrupted by a non-binary file transfer"
>>> 
>>> Anyone know what's up? I generally don't have a problem unzipping files...
>> 
>> At some point during the transfer, whether by your zip package or
>> subsequently after moving the files around, something has translated the
>> files from binary to text.  There are actually several packages that will do
>> that by accident (the "auto detect" options in some ftp packages will always
>> upload MC stacks as text for example).  You'll have to try to find out where
>> that happened and prevent it.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Kevin
>> 
>> Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.xworlds.com/>
>> Cross Worlds Computing, MetaCard Distributors, Custom Development.
>> Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.
>> 
>> This is the MetaCard mailing list.
>> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
>> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> 
> I had the same problem by pressing the "alt" key or using various FTP
> clients... After that, i found the solution in using
> Netscape+Suffit-Expander do all the job, automatically and without any
> keydown ;-)
> 
> Hope this help,
> 
> Regards, Pierre Sahores
> 
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
> 


Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.

Re: Dumb download question...

[psahores]

Kevin Miller wrote:
> 
> On 8/3/00 5:31 pm, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Tried again to download the mchttpd stacks to my mac, cos I was thinking of
> > replacing Apache. It's a nice little zip file, which transfers fine. I unstuff
> > the thing and I get the folders and files all nicely arranged on my desktop.
> > OK, so the stacks look like text files and I need to convert the file and
> > creator types for the Mac, which i do with the nice "mcstack_importer.mc"
> > utility.
> >
> > But I can't open it from within Metacard, and if I try to go to the stack I
> > get:
> >
> > "stack was corrupted by a non-binary file transfer"
> >
> > Anyone know what's up? I generally don't have a problem unzipping files...
> 
> At some point during the transfer, whether by your zip package or
> subsequently after moving the files around, something has translated the
> files from binary to text.  There are actually several packages that will do
> that by accident (the "auto detect" options in some ftp packages will always
> upload MC stacks as text for example).  You'll have to try to find out where
> that happened and prevent it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Cross Worlds Computing, MetaCard Distributors, Custom Development.
> Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.
> 
> This is the MetaCard mailing list.
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm

I had the same problem by pressing the "alt" key or using various FTP
clients... After that, i found the solution in using
Netscape+Suffit-Expander do all the job, automatically and without any
keydown ;-)

Hope this help,

Regards, Pierre Sahores

Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.

Re: Dumb download question...

[David Bovill]

Cheers, must be ZIpIT I guess...

> From: Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 18:51:54 +
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Dumb download question...
> 
> On 8/3/00 5:31 pm, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> Tried again to download the mchttpd stacks to my mac, cos I was thinking of
>> replacing Apache. It's a nice little zip file, which transfers fine. I
>> unstuff
>> the thing and I get the folders and files all nicely arranged on my desktop.
>> OK, so the stacks look like text files and I need to convert the file and
>> creator types for the Mac, which i do with the nice "mcstack_importer.mc"
>> utility. 
>> 
>> But I can't open it from within Metacard, and if I try to go to the stack I
>> get:
>> 
>> "stack was corrupted by a non-binary file transfer"
>> 
>> Anyone know what's up? I generally don't have a problem unzipping files...
> 
> At some point during the transfer, whether by your zip package or
> subsequently after moving the files around, something has translated the
> files from binary to text.  There are actually several packages that will do
> that by accident (the "auto detect" options in some ftp packages will always
> upload MC stacks as text for example).  You'll have to try to find out where
> that happened and prevent it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.xworlds.com/>
> Cross Worlds Computing, MetaCard Distributors, Custom Development.
> Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.
> 
> 
> This is the MetaCard mailing list.
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> 


This is the MetaCard mailing list.
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm

Re: Dumb download question...

[Kevin Miller]

On 8/3/00 5:31 pm, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Tried again to download the mchttpd stacks to my mac, cos I was thinking of
> replacing Apache. It's a nice little zip file, which transfers fine. I unstuff
> the thing and I get the folders and files all nicely arranged on my desktop.
> OK, so the stacks look like text files and I need to convert the file and
> creator types for the Mac, which i do with the nice "mcstack_importer.mc"
> utility. 
> 
> But I can't open it from within Metacard, and if I try to go to the stack I
> get:
> 
> "stack was corrupted by a non-binary file transfer"
> 
> Anyone know what's up? I generally don't have a problem unzipping files...

At some point during the transfer, whether by your zip package or
subsequently after moving the files around, something has translated the
files from binary to text.  There are actually several packages that will do
that by accident (the "auto detect" options in some ftp packages will always
upload MC stacks as text for example).  You'll have to try to find out where
that happened and prevent it.

Regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Cross Worlds Computing, MetaCard Distributors, Custom Development.
Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.


This is the MetaCard mailing list.
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard%40lists.best.com/
Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm