Re: An informal poll....

[Pierre Sahores]

How many, who have purchased licenses, use MC/Rev to build
standalones, that will be distributed to others?
I don't create much for my own use.  99% of
everything I do, is for distribution, to produce income.
The rest of you?

The same, there.

--
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
Inspection académique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Serveurs d'applications et SGBDR (Web/PGI)
Penser et produire l'avantage compétitif
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MC or Intel precision?

[MisterX]

Hi everyone,

Is this megaproblem Windows only?

put 2 ^ .5 = 1.414214
put pi = 3.14159265358979323846
put pi * 1 = 3.141593 --- ooops...
put 0.0005 * 0.0005 = 0

Other than start writting out externals, 
is there a way to use "Real" math precision?

Like PI!
but avoiding 
put 10 * 0.001 * pi = 3141592.65359 
which is as precise as it gets workaround... ;)

thanks for any suggestions
Xavier
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Reading cookies?

[Ken Ray]

I know how to get cookies from a server-side app, but if I have a client
standalone that needs to read a cookie from the local machine in order
to send it via "get url()" and "set the httpheaders", how doe I get the
values to pass?

On OS X I know I can read the /Library/Cookies/Cookies.plist file, but
whatabout on Windows? or OS 9?

Any ideas?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 


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re: Drawers

[Tuviah M Snyder]

>Create three drawer stacks whose sum of heights is the height of the
>base stack (or otherwise, if you like).
It is possible..it hasn't been documented for some reason

drawer "x1" at "right,top" in stack "parent"
drawer "x2" at "right,center" in stack "parent"
drawer "x3" at "right,top" in stack "parent"

Same goes for other directions where the syntax is 

drawer  [at pintoside,[alignment]]

So you can have multiple drawers on one side. 

Tuviah Snyder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
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Re: Launching a local file - NEW SOLUTION

[Richard Gaskin]

Ken Ray wrote:

>> I called it like this:
>> 
>> 
>> on mouseup
>> LaunchIt "/Volumes/FourthWorld/4W Catalog/webmerge/WebMerge
>> 2.0/WebMerge Help/WebMerge_Help/WebMergeHelp.html"
>> end mouseup
>> 
>> 
>> And got an error:
>> 
>> 
>> Error:usage: cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-f | -i] [-p] src target
>> cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-f | -i] [-p] src1 ... srcN directory
> 
> It's the space in the "WebMerge Help" part of your path. You'll needt to
> surround the paths in quotes, both for the "cp" line and the "mv" line:
> 
> get shell("cp" && q(pPath) && q(tDestPath))
> 
> get shell("mv" && q(tDestPath) && q(pPath))

Got it -- works great.  Funky, but functional (ah, Mac OS ::sigh::).

For the benefit of others not using a q function, it's simply:

  function q s
 return quote&s"e
  end q


-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___
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 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

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[ANN] New website with Revolution files

[Alejandro Tejada]

Stacks and Pieces of Code for 
Runtime Revolution
by Alejandro Tejada Capellan

Download these experiments with the 
Polygon graphics of Revolution from this website:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/

BezierLine1_1.zip
CurvedDrawingPen_v01.zip
ScreenArtv1.zip
SVGfiles.zip
export_regular_polygons.zip
graphics_transformations_01.zip
mcEpsImportV03p.zip
mcEPSJOIN.zip

=
Useful sites:
http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/metacard/tips/ and /revolution/tips/
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/ and /use-revolution/
http://wiki.macitworks.com/revdocs
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com

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Re: An informal poll....

[Robert Brenstein]

BTW I think one should extend the poll to Rev list...
I'm wondering if the responses would be similar...
I am very sure that the results will be quite different. My feeling 
is that dynamic scripting is not something that beginners and 
hobbysts use much. MC was strongly geared to "professional" 
developers (whatever that means) whereas Rev went after masses. There 
was an interesting post by Dan Schafer on Rev list regarding that (I 
duplicate it below for those who don't subscribe to Rev list). He 
makes good points and I really think that this is how Rev sees 
things. Unfortunately, I also think that this means a slow death of 
Rev as a pro developer tool, although it will continue as a more 
powerful and more feature-rich hypercard reincarnation. Of course, it 
does not have to be that way if Rev sees the light. But the changing 
of script limits, talk about adding smade-with splash, the recent 
product lineup changes clearly indicate that they are after selling 
more licenses than worrying about developers producing quality 
standalone products for distribution to others (paid or not).

Robert Brenstein



Subject: Marketing Rev in Other Worlds (was Re: Script Limits and 
solid IDE evolution!)
From: Dan Shafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Revolution List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 12:04:24 -0700

This discussion of the need for the RunRev folks to market not just 
the product but the underlying xtalk/xcard paradigm to the world of 
Windows in particular raises for me another issue that I think 
prevents the product from achieving the kind of brilliant "Aha!" 
success it richly deserves. I refer to the out-of-the-box experience.

When I showed my wife HyperCard a few months before it was released, 
her reaction was, "I get it. Get out of the way and let me play." 
Her response to Revolution when it opened was, "What's this? Another 
programming thing?"

Professional programmers are going to be very slow to switch to 
Revolution or to any xThing for that matter. It's hard enough to get 
a programmer to change languages even when confronted with a 
demonstrably superior alternative (I know; I spent a few years 
trying to do that with Smalltalk). The real sweet spot market for 
Revolution, as it was for HyperCard and the other xCard products, is 
what I have long been referring to as the Inventive User (IU). IUs 
are people who:

1. Know their computers can do so much more to help them with their 
work than anyone has yet made them do.
2. Are smart and creative.
3. Can envision the solutions.
4. Are not professionally trained programmers or at least if they 
were at one point no longer earn their living coding
5. Probably working in a team or workgroup setting where they are 
the local IT department

Those folks -- and there are millions of them -- NEED Revolution. 
Badly. But they're not going to take the time to tinker and learn 
the product after opening Revolution and being faced with a blank 
screen and a bunch of loosely connected floating palettes. Heck, 
they don't even get a blank stack window let alone a starting point.

That was HyperCard's genius. Out of the box, it was engaging, 
enticing and harmless-looking. It *seduced* you into being a 
programmer. And when it did, you kissed it.

IMNSHO, RunRev should be putting a lot of time, energy and money 
into creating a dynamite out-of-the-box experience for that category 
of user. I know how I'd go about that, but it would take a lot of 
time to develop it and I'm busy writing my books about RunRev at the 
moment.

~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of forthcoming 3-book set,
"Revolution: Programming at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for More Info
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Re: Script Limits

[Robert Brenstein]

Robert Brenstein wrote:

 That is a nice approach if switching scripts was to support multiple
 functionality. However, it will not work if the 'set script' is used
 to update a distributed stack to a new version or fix a bug without
 having to replace the whole stack.
Not necesarily.  After all, the MC 2.5 engine still runs great so there's no
reason an updater couldn't be made with the current engine.
Or you could use a frontscript tp trap and reroute messages as needed.

Fortunately none of this seems likely to be necessary:  with a near 100%
consensus against this move I'd be surprised if the proposal is enacted.
--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site


Richard, what you suggest are all workabouts. And the fact that this 
groups is 100% against the change does not mean it will not go into 
effect. This issue barely caused a blink on Rev list and that is 
where majority of Rev users are. We are soon to be a true minority 
and our interest in retaining MC as it was will make us dinosaurs :(

Robert
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Re: An informal poll....

[Ray Horsley]

on 8/7/03 2:44 PM, Shari at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> All of this talk about something working with a licensed Home stack
> versus as standalone make me wonder
> 
> How many, who have purchased licenses, use MC/Rev to build
> standalones, that will be distributed to others?
> 
> That was THE REASON I purchased.  Instead of migrating from Hypercard
> to C/C++, I moved to MC.  I don't create much for my own use.  99% of
> everything I do, is for distribution, to produce income.
> 
> The rest of you?

Absolutely!


Ray Horsley
Developer, LinkIt! Software

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RE: Script Limits

[David Bovill]

On Fri, 2003-08-08 at 04:53, Chipp Walters wrote:

> In order to create the next generation: a new and much faster version of RR,
> we're going to have to remove the 'set the script' command and treat
> Transcript just as other compilers-- like C++, etc..
> 
> Would this make a difference? IOW, if instead of removing features for no
> customer gain (IMHO always a bad idea) they were removing features for
> customer gain.
> 

Doesn't help me or several of the other people that are objecting. The
reason is that we choose MC over the complier approach becasue we can
distribute and have a powerful set of tools to maintain and update code
to a wide user base without paying royalty costs.

Removing the "set script..." ability of standalones / demo removes one
of the most powerful techniques - others are work arounds which may work
in some cases - but over time result in an ugly hack.

For me and I'd say the community it is even worse than that because it
hampers releasing an professional educational product that teaches and
allows students to practice scripting.

This is bad for the product, bad for the MC community (there are plently
of colleges that would take up such tools especially if released open
source as LGPL), and even worse for the longer term health of the
community - as it restricts any "open source" development to licenced
users - which is a contradiction in marketing and probably licencing
terms. 

Open source users will not pay for the ability to start coding and
learning and this is a growing educational market. The 20 line
restriction (freudian slip) works as a compromise - you can code for
free but it's a pain without the licence. Time limited demo's don't
count in this world view.

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Re: Drawers

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

I haven't tried this yet (I may have back during the beta), but can you 
tell me if this works on all platforms or is this an OSX only thing?

On Sunday, August 10, 2003, at 01:57 AM, Tuviah M Snyder wrote:

Create three drawer stacks whose sum of heights is the height of the
base stack (or otherwise, if you like).
It is possible..it hasn't been documented for some reason

drawer "x1" at "right,top" in stack "parent"
drawer "x2" at "right,center" in stack "parent"
drawer "x3" at "right,top" in stack "parent"
Same goes for other directions where the syntax is

drawer  [at pintoside,[alignment]]

So you can have multiple drawers on one side.

Tuviah Snyder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
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Sincerely,
Simon
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Windows Task Scheduler

[Dave Cragg]

Hi

Slightly off topic.

I've been experimenting with the Windows task scheduler (on XP and 
2000). I've been using it to periodically run mt scripts with the 
Windows cgi engine (cmc.exe).

It's working fine so far, but one minor annoyance is that the Windows 
console window (or whatever it's called) will briefly appear every 
time the script is run. (cmc.exe is a console app)

Does anyone know how to configure the Task Scheduler to not show the 
console window?

Cheers
Dave
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