[meteorite-list] Eucrite-Like Pebbles at $1.9/gr
Hola List I have 2.3 kg of Vaca Muerta Eucrite -Like Pebbles, between 10 to 80gr, at $1.9/gr. Minimum purchase $600. You can see a sample V M Eucrite in www.meteorites.cl I found these Eucrites around of a crater that was dug by a miner in the before last century, who separated the Eucrites from the rich metal mass, remaining these Eucrites spread in the place together a few and small fragments rich in metal. This crater is inside of the dispersion ellipse, toward NE end of Vaca Muerta fall. Maybe, because the crater size (2.7mts Diam. and 1.5mts deep) this could correspond to the main mass. But also is possible that the miners enlarged the crate, once taken out the meteorite, thinking that the vein of mineral would continue down. Objects like old bottles and remains of old sack remain still in the place. Vaca Muerta Originally found in 1861 in the Atacama desert, about 60km SE of Taltal, Chile. Classified as a mesosiderite, Vaca muerta is a differentiated silicate and metal rich meteorite containing many silicate and eucrite inclusion around 10% in volume surrouded by a matrix of mesosiderite composition . In the literature this pebbles are called "Eucrite-Like Pebbles" Best Regards Rodrigo Martinez Atacama Desert Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.meteorites.cl __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad: Web page updated + EBAY auctions
Hi We made several additions on our web page so you may take a look at: http://www.meteorites.com Second, this weekend ends our new ebay auction. Almost 60 items to choose from, including a micromount slice of the very rare fall BATH (the only we have so don't hesitate about bidding if you want it). Other specimens available on e-bay are D'Orbigny (a great variety of sizes), El Sampal, Springwater, Miles and much more! Use the following link: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewListedItems&userid=meteorites.com or look for seller meteorites.com on ebay. Eduardo __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bruderheim, Orgeuil and Bartail + Hainaut
Hello, There is three interesting meteorites (Bruderheim, Orgeuil and Bartail )on ebay, no reserve, start price= 1$ http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=astronomybelg&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 I look for informations about Bettrechies/Hainaut H3-6 fell on the French/Belgian border in 1934. Recently, I'm been contacted by a unknow collector (?) for a sale of 43 g of Hainaut. I think that the origin is very doubtful. Any museum (Brussel or Paris) have recently traded or sold this meteorite... I think that the origin is very doubtful... The Zag lithology is very close to Hainaut, except one detail... . Except public collections, I think be alone to have a big fragment ( 194 g ) of this rare meteorite with Zelimir Gabelica (10g) . I wish know the location of each collection (public or private) which possede large fragments of this rare meteorite, and verify the origin of the proposed sample. Best regards, Vincent http://users.skynet.be/meteorite.be Téléchargez MSN Explorer gratuitement à l'adresse http://explorer.msn.com. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo impact - 17 February, 2325 BCE?
Hi Charlie - As I pointed out in my initial reply to Marco, there are no immigrations into the Zoque and Mayan homelands between 2360 BCE and the later periods. So Marco's feeble attack on my competence by raising cultural/ethnicity differences only serves to demonstrate his complete incompentence in this area. I assume Marco has some competence with paleolithic cultures somewhere, but his familiarity with the specifics of Mayan or Zoque is nil. I am glad you are enjoying the materials which I have collected on these catastrophic events. best wishes - ep --- Charlie Devine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Mr. Grondine, > > As Marco correctly pointed out, your timeline for > the existance of the > cultures we call Mayan and Olmec was completely out > of whack. I found > nothing whatsoever racist in his comments, merely > the tongue-in-cheek > comments of someone astounded by > your erroneous chronology. > BTW, I took your advise to Marco and went to the > link containing your > report, which you included in your original post on > this topic. > I found it to contain much food for thought > > Best wishes, > Charlie > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 > From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo > impact - 17 February, 2325 > BCE? > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:07:21 -0700 (PDT) > > Hello Art and all - > > On the topic of list rules, once again, Crutchfield, > Marco's insulting message was quite public and I can > not simply allow it to go publicly unanswered. > > You may be blind to this, but I doubt if others here > are. I am also fairly certain that Marco's > meso-american colleagues upstairs would not be blind > to it either. > > Both the Rio Cuarto and Campo de Cielo impacts are > fairly serious matters. I can understand > scepticism, > but Marcos' lengthy message went well beyond that - > he > could have raised his points in 3 sentences without > wasting so much band width, and I would have > responded > to those points with a concise statement of fact. > Instead Marco resorted to an ad hominem attack ex > cathedra, and I pointed out that he was acting like > a > racist, and the only throne he was sitting on in > this > specific matter was a toilet. > > I understand that sometimes posts are made without > sufficient consideration. Should Marco ever wish to > publicly apologize for his mis-characterization of > Native American peoples, and the belittling tone he > took with me in his post, I will accept his apology. > > Time constraints are going to cause me to suspend > from > this list again shortly for a while, so if Marco > wants > to make that public apology, he should do it > quickly. > > I definitely want to avoid adding more messages on > this to the list, as they contribute nothing to an > honest discussion of exactly when either the Rio > Cuarto impact or Campo de Cielo impact occured. > It's > a waste of bandwidth, as was much of Marco's > original > message. > > ep > > --- Alex Crutchfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Grondine, you violated list rules and you owe the > > list an apology. You can > > accept responsibility for that or not. > > ARC > > - Original Message - > > From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:15 AM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo > > impact - 17 February, 2325 > > BCE? > > > > > > Hello Alex - > > > > As Marco's very racist belittling of the Native > > American peoples was not done privately, I don't > see > > why I should simply sit and grin and take it. It > is > > an insult not only to the Maya and Zoque, it is an > > insult to my own Huron and Monocan ancestors. > > > > Additionally, by sharing with this list his > complete > > ignorance of these peoples' cultures, Marco left > the > > members of the list with an entirely inaccruate > > conception of them at the time of both the Rio > > Cuarto > > and Campo de Cielo impacts. > > > > If and when Marco should ever choose to apologise > > for > > the belittling tone he took in his message, I will > > accept his apology. > > > > ep > > > > PS - By the way, Brenham was widely traded in > North > > America long before Europeans ever showed up. > > > > > > --- Alex Crutchfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > Grondine, You are out of line to post this rank > > > insult on the open meteorite > > > list, as it violates list rules and common > > decency. > > > You should have replied > > > privately. Now you should apologise publicly. > > > Alexander Crutchfield > > > IMCA #5361 > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 2:47 AM > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo > > impact > > > - 17 February, 2325 BCE? > > > > > > > > > uhhh, Marco, > > > > > > Perhaps you want to play endless g
Re: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo impact - 17 February, 2325BCE?
Dear Mr. Grondine, As Marco correctly pointed out, your timeline for the existance of the cultures we call Mayan and Olmec was completely out of whack. I found nothing whatsoever racist in his comments, merely the tongue-in-cheek comments of someone astounded by your erroneous chronology. BTW, I took your advise to Marco and went to the link containing your report, which you included in your original post on this topic. I found it to contain much food for thought Best wishes, Charlie --- Begin Message --- Hello Art and all - On the topic of list rules, once again, Crutchfield, Marco's insulting message was quite public and I can not simply allow it to go publicly unanswered. You may be blind to this, but I doubt if others here are. I am also fairly certain that Marco's meso-american colleagues upstairs would not be blind to it either. Both the Rio Cuarto and Campo de Cielo impacts are fairly serious matters. I can understand scepticism, but Marcos' lengthy message went well beyond that - he could have raised his points in 3 sentences without wasting so much band width, and I would have responded to those points with a concise statement of fact. Instead Marco resorted to an ad hominem attack ex cathedra, and I pointed out that he was acting like a racist, and the only throne he was sitting on in this specific matter was a toilet. I understand that sometimes posts are made without sufficient consideration. Should Marco ever wish to publicly apologize for his mis-characterization of Native American peoples, and the belittling tone he took with me in his post, I will accept his apology. Time constraints are going to cause me to suspend from this list again shortly for a while, so if Marco wants to make that public apology, he should do it quickly. I definitely want to avoid adding more messages on this to the list, as they contribute nothing to an honest discussion of exactly when either the Rio Cuarto impact or Campo de Cielo impact occured. It's a waste of bandwidth, as was much of Marco's original message. ep --- Alex Crutchfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Grondine, you violated list rules and you owe the > list an apology. You can > accept responsibility for that or not. > ARC > - Original Message - > From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:15 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo > impact - 17 February, 2325 > BCE? > > > Hello Alex - > > As Marco's very racist belittling of the Native > American peoples was not done privately, I don't see > why I should simply sit and grin and take it. It is > an insult not only to the Maya and Zoque, it is an > insult to my own Huron and Monocan ancestors. > > Additionally, by sharing with this list his complete > ignorance of these peoples' cultures, Marco left the > members of the list with an entirely inaccruate > conception of them at the time of both the Rio > Cuarto > and Campo de Cielo impacts. > > If and when Marco should ever choose to apologise > for > the belittling tone he took in his message, I will > accept his apology. > > ep > > PS - By the way, Brenham was widely traded in North > America long before Europeans ever showed up. > > > --- Alex Crutchfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Grondine, You are out of line to post this rank > > insult on the open meteorite > > list, as it violates list rules and common > decency. > > You should have replied > > privately. Now you should apologise publicly. > > Alexander Crutchfield > > IMCA #5361 > > - Original Message - > > From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 2:47 AM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo > impact > > - 17 February, 2325 BCE? > > > > > > uhhh, Marco, > > > > Perhaps you want to play endless games about > > cultural > > artifacts and ethnicity, but I don't really have > > time > > for them here. I will note in passing that there > are > > no migrations into the Maya and Zoque homelands > > between 2360 BCE (Rio Cuarto) and the later > periods. > > If you have any information different, then please > > share it with us all. > > > > But this is really aside the point. Rio Cuarto > has > > a > > 350 MEGATON hole in the ground, and wherever the > > Zoque > > (Olmec) and Maya ancestors were in this HEMISPHERE > > they felt its effects. > > > > Since as you admit the Maya and Zoque are not your > > fields of expertise, may I suggest that before you > > start telling everyone about those "primitve" > Native > > Americans, and stating with such authority that of > > course they didn't have an advanced culture, sea > > going > > commerce, and wide trading networks, that just > > perhaps > > you might want to read up on their cultures if > only > > a > > little bit? > > > > After all, opinions which are not based on > evidence > > often are little more than guesses, and those > > guesses > > often th
Re: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo impact - 17 February, 2325 BCE?
Hello Alex - My assumption from its content (an ssumption made about 4:30 last morning) was that Marco's message was sent publicly via the list. Yeah, I'd probably get annoyed if I made ignorant racist statements in private and then had the misfortune to have them publicly aired. If that was the case, I'm s sorry for my mistake and wasting the list participants' time with this. ep --- Alex Crutchfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Grondine, it is also considered bad form to forward > a private email message > to a public list. One observes that you behave as if > you might believe that > the rules of polite society do not apply to you, > perhaps because you feel > deeply and moreover are in sympathy with an > historically aggrieved group. In > my eyes you are 0 for 2 and may have started a flame > war. Also against list > rules. > ARC > - Original Message - > From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 12:07 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo > impact - 17 February, 2325 > BCE? > > > Hello Art and all - > > On the topic of list rules, once again, Crutchfield, > Marco's insulting message was quite public and I can > not simply allow it to go publicly unanswered. > > You may be blind to this, but I doubt if others here > are. I am also fairly certain that Marco's > meso-american colleagues upstairs would not be blind > to it either. > > Both the Rio Cuarto and Campo de Cielo impacts are > fairly serious matters. I can understand > scepticism, > but Marcos' lengthy message went well beyond that - > he > could have raised his points in 3 sentences without > wasting so much band width, and I would have > responded > to those points with a concise statement of fact. > Instead Marco resorted to an ad hominem attack ex > cathedra, and I pointed out that he was acting like > a > racist, and the only throne he was sitting on in > this > specific matter was a toilet. > > I understand that sometimes posts are made without > sufficient consideration. Should Marco ever wish to > publicly apologize for his mis-characterization of > Native American peoples, and the belittling tone he > took with me in his post, I will accept his apology. > > Time constraints are going to cause me to suspend > from > this list again shortly for a while, so if Marco > wants > to make that public apology, he should do it > quickly. > > I definitely want to avoid adding more messages on > this to the list, as they contribute nothing to an > honest discussion of exactly when either the Rio > Cuarto impact or Campo de Cielo impact occured. > It's > a waste of bandwidth, as was much of Marco's > original > message. > > ep > > --- Alex Crutchfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Grondine, you violated list rules and you owe the > > list an apology. You can > > accept responsibility for that or not. > > ARC > > - Original Message - > > From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:15 AM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo > > impact - 17 February, 2325 > > BCE? > > > > > > Hello Alex - > > > > As Marco's very racist belittling of the Native > > American peoples was not done privately, I don't > see > > why I should simply sit and grin and take it. It > is > > an insult not only to the Maya and Zoque, it is an > > insult to my own Huron and Monocan ancestors. > > > > Additionally, by sharing with this list his > complete > > ignorance of these peoples' cultures, Marco left > the > > members of the list with an entirely inaccruate > > conception of them at the time of both the Rio > > Cuarto > > and Campo de Cielo impacts. > > > > If and when Marco should ever choose to apologise > > for > > the belittling tone he took in his message, I will > > accept his apology. > > > > ep > > > > PS - By the way, Brenham was widely traded in > North > > America long before Europeans ever showed up. > > > > > > --- Alex Crutchfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > Grondine, You are out of line to post this rank > > > insult on the open meteorite > > > list, as it violates list rules and common > > decency. > > > You should have replied > > > privately. Now you should apologise publicly. > > > Alexander Crutchfield > > > IMCA #5361 > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 2:47 AM > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo > > impact > > > - 17 February, 2325 BCE? > > > > > > > > > uhhh, Marco, > > > > > > Perhaps you want to play endless games about > > > cultural > > > artifacts and ethnicity, but I don't really have > > > time > > > for them here. I will note in passing that there > > are > > > no migrations into the Maya and Zoque homelands > > > between 2360 BCE (Rio Cuarto) and the later > > periods. > > > If you have any information different,
[meteorite-list] Darryl's Dad
As some of you know, Darryl Pitt's father passed away on March 4. Because of some business, I had been corresponding with Darryl just the day before as Darryl was enroute to Michigan to be with his father (and mother) during the expected last moments. Darryl did take the time to write back on March 4 and his message to me was poignant and full of dignity and respect showing a joy and appreciation of life that must run especially deep in the Pitt family. I received the May issue of "Meteorite" today and the "Macovich Collection" advertisement running on the inside cover is typical of Darryl's, and I assume his father's, first class attitude about, well, everything. It is a dramatic photo in black-and-white taken aboard the US Saratoga while she was on duty in the South Pacific in 1943 during WWII. All hands are on deck, some sitting astride two upward pointing artillery barrels, listening and watching a live performance of "Big Band" leader Artie Shaw and his All-American All-Stars. Sitting in the front row of the band, Mack Pitt on sax. Darryl's ad copy reads, "There would be no Macovich, if it weren't for Mack." KK __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Plotting Months and Days - Part 2
AL wrote: > I wonder if anyone has tried to plot months and days related to > meteorite classes to see if any correlation of types on certain > fall days exists? If streams could be predicted then we could have > watchers for this material coming down, plotting the falls with > various observers or camera networks. Hello All! In part 2 let's look at consecutive fall days for H chondrites: Results of the H chondrite falls on consecutive days: 02 H4 chondrites in Apr (Apr 17+Apr 18) 03 H4 chondrites in Jul (Jul 11+Jul 12+ Jul 13) 03 H4 chondrites in Aug (Aug 29+Aug 30+Aug 31) 05 H4 chondrites in Dec (Dec 14+Dec 15//Dec 26+Dec 27+Dec 28) Although there are 5 H4 chondrite falls in December, they are separated by a time interval of 11 days. More relevant could be the 3 consecutive fall days for July, August, and the latter part of December. 02 H5 chondrites in Jul (Jul 12+Jul 13) 04 H5 chondrites in Aug (Aug 11(2)+Aug 12(2)) 04 H5 chondrites in Jan (Jan 27+Jan 28+Jan 29+Jan 30) 04 H5 chondrites in Mar (Mar 11+Mar 12//Mar 25+Mar 26) 05 H5 chondrites in Feb (Feb 01+Feb 02+Feb 03//Feb 28+Feb 29) 07 H5 chondrites in Jun (Jun 14+Jun 15+Jun 16(2)//Jun 28+Jun 29+ Jun 30) 07 H5 chondrites in Nov (Nov 11(1)+Nov 12(2)//Nov 26(2)+Nov 27+Nov 28) 09 H5 chondrites in May (May 21+May 22+May 23+May 24(2)+May 25+May 26+May 27(2)) 10 H5 chondrites in Sep (Sep 02+Sep 03+Sep04(2)+Sep 05(3)//Sep 09+Sep 10+Sep 11) 13 H5 chondrites in Oct (Oct 09+Oct 10+Oct 11(2)+[Oct 14 - Oct 18 ]+[Oct 20 - Oct 23] Most conspicuous here are the 13 H5 chondrites which fell between Oct 09 and Oct 23 in almost direct succession. Equally impressive are the 9 H5 chondrites for May 21-27, then those 7 H5 chondrites for Sept 02-05, and 4 H5 chondrite falls for Jan 27-30. Another interesting result could be the time intervals between the two clusters for March (about 12 days), for June (about 12 days), for November (about 12 days), and for February (about 2 x 12 days). 02 H6 chondrites in Jan (Jan 15+Jan 16) 02 H6 chondrites in Mar (Mar 19+Mar 20) 02 H6 chondrites in Aug (Aug 09+Aug 10) 02 H6 chondrites in Sep (Sep 16+Sep 17) 04 H6 chondrites in Feb (Feb 09+Feb 10//Feb 18+Feb 19) 04 H6 chondrites in May (May 17+May 18//May 22+May 23) 04 H6 chondrites in Jun (Jun 11+Jun 12(2)+Jun 13) 04 H6 chondrites in Jul (Jul 01+Jul 02// Jul 17+Jul 18) 04 H6 chondrites in Oct (Oct 05+Oct 06//Oct 30+Oct 31) 05 H6 chondrites in Apr (Apr 04+Apr 05+Apr 06//Apr 29+Apr 30) The striking fall days for the H6 chondrites are those 4 falls in June and the 3 successive fall days in early April. Again, please note: This is a statistical overview - no more and no less and we must be very careful with rash conclusions! Best wishes from someone who is still struggling to cope with the terrible fate that 14 German teacher colleagues suffered in that shooting in Erfurt yesterday but like Michael Cottingham I think that meteorites and contributions to our list help me come to grips with such a situation. Brooding doesn't help and life must go on! Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Something Different To Consider About (meteorite streams)
Hello Mark - While it is true that any meteorite stream is likely to be differentiated to one degree or another, it would seem to me that usually the differences would not be that great. Thus, given the complexities of trying to identify a stream from the data assembled so far, probably the way to go is to do it by strict types at first, and then maybe much later look for differentiation in the stream. ep --- Mark Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > April 26, 2002 > > Greetings Meteorite Enthusiasts! > > With the startling news announced by European > Fireball > researchers in regard to the EN060402 bolide being > linked with the Pribram chondrite, fellow > enthusiasts > on the Meteorite-list are likewise trying to make > "connections". However, I must say something that > may not have been considered. When trying to > discover > a "meteorite" stream (meteoroid is the better term > here) we should not just consider or try to link > meteorite falls of only one distinct type with each > other. In reality, the composition of such a stream > composed of asteroid matter is quite likely not to > be > homogenous! Dr. Pavel Spurny in his history making > e-mail had this little footnote to add: > > "Finally, from the perfect similarity of both > heliocentric orbits we can predicate, that both > bodies had also the same composition and therefore > we > can expect that meteorites produced by the April 6 > fireball are H5 ordinary chondrites." > > Astounding! I was intrigued that such a bold > statement was made, especially in such a mysterious > and sparsely understood whelm. However, in this > case, > I believe the logic which drew the conclusion should > > be revised. Just because the orbital data and/or > fireball information of both meteorite falls are so > similar doesn't mean that they are one in the same > meteorite, petrologic type and all! Asteroids > almost > undoubtedly vary in overall composition as one nears > the core, which does of course assume we are talking > about a good sized asteroid body to begin with or a > big fragment from such. With the discovery of so > many asteroid moon systems recently, we again should > not be so certain that the two linked meteorite > falls > have almost equal compositions. For all we know > these > asteroid moons could form a hefty percentage of a > rocky meteoroid stream, ones with slight petrologic > and composition differences or entirely different > classes! Gravitational pulls by our planet could be > prying them loose from the "mother ship" asteroid > during close encounters. As a result, the behavior > of > such a stream could be noticeably different from > that > of a normal cometary meteoroid stream. Something > else > to keep in mind. > > In conclusion, chondrites of different petrologic > types (or possibly even meteorites of different > classes) should not necessarily be excluded when > trying to identify a date(s) that a possible > meteoroid > swarm is encountering Earth. Also, EN060402 does > not > necessarily have to be an H5 chondrite as is Pribram > when one "digs" more deeply into the compositional > nature of asteroids. Lastly, the behavior of an > asteroid meteoroid stream may involve new methods of > sending material to Earth. > > All the above is my personal slant and I am open to > all comments on this matter. Please correct me for > any possible errors. > > Long strewn fields! > > Mark Fox > Newaygo, MI USA > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Plotting Months and Days & EN060402 --- Something to Consider
April 27, 2002 Greetings Meteorite Enthusiasts! With the startling news announced by European Fireball researchers in regard to the EN060402 bolide being linked with the Pribram chondrite, fellow enthusiasts on the Meteorite-list are likewise trying to make "connections". However, I must say something that may not have been considered. When trying to discover a "meteorite" stream (meteoroid is the better term here) we should not just consider or try to link meteorite falls of only one distinct type with each other. In reality, the composition of such a stream composed of asteroid matter is quite likely not to be homogenous! Dr. Pavel Spurny in his history making e-mail had this little footnote to add: "Finally, from the perfect similarity of both heliocentric orbits we can predicate, that both bodies had also the same composition and therefore we can expect that meteorites produced by the April 6 fireball are H5 ordinary chondrites." Astounding! I was intrigued that such a bold statement was made, especially in such a mysterious and sparsely understood whelm. However, in this case, I believe the logic which drew the conclusion should be revised. Just because the orbital data and/or fireball information of both meteorite falls are so similar doesn't mean that they are one in the same meteorite, petrologic type and all! Asteroids almost undoubtedly vary in overall composition as one nears the core, which does of course assume we are talking about a good sized asteroid body to begin with or a big fragment from such. With the discovery of so many asteroid moon systems recently, we again should not be so certain that the two linked meteorite falls have almost equal compositions. For all we know these asteroid moons could form a hefty percentage of a rocky meteoroid stream, ones with slight petrologic and composition differences or entirely different classes! Gravitational pulls by our planet could be prying them loose from the "mother ship" asteroid during close encounters. As a result, the behavior of such a stream could be noticeably different from that of a normal cometary meteoroid stream. Something else to think about. In conclusion, chondrites of different petrologic types (or possibly even meteorites of different classes) should not necessarily be excluded when trying to identify a date(s) that a possible meteoroid swarm is encountering Earth. Also, EN060402 does not necessarily have to be an H5 chondrite as is Pribram when one "digs" more deeply into the compositional nature of asteroids. Lastly, the behavior of an asteroid meteoroid stream may involve new methods of sending material to Earth. All the above is my personal slant and I am open to all comments on this matter. Please correct me for any possible errors. Long strewn fields! Mark Fox Newaygo, MI USA __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] plug time....
Hullo! It's now less than 24 hours to the close of the Orgueil and Lodran auction on eBay C'mon have a go if you're hard enough!! Sorry for the disgusting market stall approach - but this stuff is A1 - it;s gotta go to a good home! again, pushily yours dave -- In gentle decay, dave IMCA #0092 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (for IMCA member contact) http://www.meteorites.ic24.net/index.html http://www.meteoritecollectors.org "I have a proof that x^n+y^n=z^n never has integer solutions for n>2. However, it won't fit into my signature file" __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Ebay Item # 1097060071
Hi Steven, It is the correct infomy only guess is that it got pulled or sold. several other members saw and concurred in its NON-authenticity. Sincerely, Greg Redfern IMCA #5781 www.meteoritecollectors.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 2:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay Item # 1097060071 Greg and list: I went to ebay and looked up your number for ebay item# 1097060071. Uh...it come back for a clown ashtray match holder. I also tried to narrow the search using your description words: farmer, found, field --- also without luck. Can you repost with correct info? Thanks.. Best, Steven Sachs __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Age of Lunar Meteorites
Dear List, Can anyone supply us with the crystallization ages of these three lunar meteorites: DAG-400 Dofar-081 NWA-482 Thanks. Best, Dave and Sarah --- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Fw: [meteorite-list] Plotting Months and Days - Part 1
-Original Message- From: Dan Wray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: almitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, April 26, 2002 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Plotting Months and Days - Part 1 >Hello Al and Jeff, > >While all that is true, during the last two Leonid showers, impacts were >recorded on the lunar surface by amature telescopes using video cameras. >This would seem to suggest that there are larger components involved in >these streams than previously thought. See The Association of Lunar and >Planetary Observers >http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~rhill/alpo/lunarstuff/lunimpacts.html, for >information on this ongoing study. > >Dan Wray >-Original Message- >From: almitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: Jeff Kuyken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cc: Meteorite List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Friday, April 26, 2002 9:34 AM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Plotting Months and Days - Part 1 > > >>Hi Jeff and all, >> >>Keep in mind that meteor showers and bright meteors and bolides that >produce >>meteorites are two different animals. We don't have any evidence yet for a >meteor >>shower producing a meteorite. Meteor Showers are produced when the Earth >passes >>through the stream of a comets orbit and producing the shower from the fine >particles >>tailing the comet. Meteor falls (that produce meteorites) are produced when >when >>material intersects the Earth's orbit from the asteroid belt from >perpetration from >>Jupiter etc. and falls. Yes they are call meteors but they originate from >two >>different sources. >> >>--AL >> >> >>__ >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo impact - 17 February, 2325 BCE?
Hello Art and all - On the topic of list rules, once again, Crutchfield, Marco's insulting message was quite public and I can not simply allow it to go publicly unanswered. You may be blind to this, but I doubt if others here are. I am also fairly certain that Marco's meso-american colleagues upstairs would not be blind to it either. Both the Rio Cuarto and Campo de Cielo impacts are fairly serious matters. I can understand scepticism, but Marcos' lengthy message went well beyond that - he could have raised his points in 3 sentences without wasting so much band width, and I would have responded to those points with a concise statement of fact. Instead Marco resorted to an ad hominem attack ex cathedra, and I pointed out that he was acting like a racist, and the only throne he was sitting on in this specific matter was a toilet. I understand that sometimes posts are made without sufficient consideration. Should Marco ever wish to publicly apologize for his mis-characterization of Native American peoples, and the belittling tone he took with me in his post, I will accept his apology. Time constraints are going to cause me to suspend from this list again shortly for a while, so if Marco wants to make that public apology, he should do it quickly. I definitely want to avoid adding more messages on this to the list, as they contribute nothing to an honest discussion of exactly when either the Rio Cuarto impact or Campo de Cielo impact occured. It's a waste of bandwidth, as was much of Marco's original message. ep --- Alex Crutchfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Grondine, you violated list rules and you owe the > list an apology. You can > accept responsibility for that or not. > ARC > - Original Message - > From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:15 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo > impact - 17 February, 2325 > BCE? > > > Hello Alex - > > As Marco's very racist belittling of the Native > American peoples was not done privately, I don't see > why I should simply sit and grin and take it. It is > an insult not only to the Maya and Zoque, it is an > insult to my own Huron and Monocan ancestors. > > Additionally, by sharing with this list his complete > ignorance of these peoples' cultures, Marco left the > members of the list with an entirely inaccruate > conception of them at the time of both the Rio > Cuarto > and Campo de Cielo impacts. > > If and when Marco should ever choose to apologise > for > the belittling tone he took in his message, I will > accept his apology. > > ep > > PS - By the way, Brenham was widely traded in North > America long before Europeans ever showed up. > > > --- Alex Crutchfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Grondine, You are out of line to post this rank > > insult on the open meteorite > > list, as it violates list rules and common > decency. > > You should have replied > > privately. Now you should apologise publicly. > > Alexander Crutchfield > > IMCA #5361 > > - Original Message - > > From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 2:47 AM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo > impact > > - 17 February, 2325 BCE? > > > > > > uhhh, Marco, > > > > Perhaps you want to play endless games about > > cultural > > artifacts and ethnicity, but I don't really have > > time > > for them here. I will note in passing that there > are > > no migrations into the Maya and Zoque homelands > > between 2360 BCE (Rio Cuarto) and the later > periods. > > If you have any information different, then please > > share it with us all. > > > > But this is really aside the point. Rio Cuarto > has > > a > > 350 MEGATON hole in the ground, and wherever the > > Zoque > > (Olmec) and Maya ancestors were in this HEMISPHERE > > they felt its effects. > > > > Since as you admit the Maya and Zoque are not your > > fields of expertise, may I suggest that before you > > start telling everyone about those "primitve" > Native > > Americans, and stating with such authority that of > > course they didn't have an advanced culture, sea > > going > > commerce, and wide trading networks, that just > > perhaps > > you might want to read up on their cultures if > only > > a > > little bit? > > > > After all, opinions which are not based on > evidence > > often are little more than guesses, and those > > guesses > > often throw more light on the guessor's > > pre-suppositions than the facts. Sometimes, for > > example, the guesses can reveal a real racist. > > > > As for background reading, a good source for an > > introduction to the area is my original survey of > > the > > area, the link to which I provided. It was posted > to > > "anthropolgy in the news" site out of Texas A&M > > several months back, and it is quite likely that > > your > > meso-american colleagues upstairs read it. > > > > And please take a copy of your note
[meteorite-list] Something Different To Consider About
April 26, 2002 Greetings Meteorite Enthusiasts! With the startling news announced by European Fireball researchers in regard to the EN060402 bolide being linked with the Pribram chondrite, fellow enthusiasts on the Meteorite-list are likewise trying to make "connections". However, I must say something that may not have been considered. When trying to discover a "meteorite" stream (meteoroid is the better term here) we should not just consider or try to link meteorite falls of only one distinct type with each other. In reality, the composition of such a stream composed of asteroid matter is quite likely not to be homogenous! Dr. Pavel Spurny in his history making e-mail had this little footnote to add: "Finally, from the perfect similarity of both heliocentric orbits we can predicate, that both bodies had also the same composition and therefore we can expect that meteorites produced by the April 6 fireball are H5 ordinary chondrites." Astounding! I was intrigued that such a bold statement was made, especially in such a mysterious and sparsely understood whelm. However, in this case, I believe the logic which drew the conclusion should be revised. Just because the orbital data and/or fireball information of both meteorite falls are so similar doesn't mean that they are one in the same meteorite, petrologic type and all! Asteroids almost undoubtedly vary in overall composition as one nears the core, which does of course assume we are talking about a good sized asteroid body to begin with or a big fragment from such. With the discovery of so many asteroid moon systems recently, we again should not be so certain that the two linked meteorite falls have almost equal compositions. For all we know these asteroid moons could form a hefty percentage of a rocky meteoroid stream, ones with slight petrologic and composition differences or entirely different classes! Gravitational pulls by our planet could be prying them loose from the "mother ship" asteroid during close encounters. As a result, the behavior of such a stream could be noticeably different from that of a normal cometary meteoroid stream. Something else to keep in mind. In conclusion, chondrites of different petrologic types (or possibly even meteorites of different classes) should not necessarily be excluded when trying to identify a date(s) that a possible meteoroid swarm is encountering Earth. Also, EN060402 does not necessarily have to be an H5 chondrite as is Pribram when one "digs" more deeply into the compositional nature of asteroids. Lastly, the behavior of an asteroid meteoroid stream may involve new methods of sending material to Earth. All the above is my personal slant and I am open to all comments on this matter. Please correct me for any possible errors. Long strewn fields! Mark Fox Newaygo, MI USA __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo impact - 17 February, 2325 BCE?
Hello Alex - As Marco's very racist belittling of the Native American peoples was not done privately, I don't see why I should simply sit and grin and take it. It is an insult not only to the Maya and Zoque, it is an insult to my own Huron and Monocan ancestors. Additionally, by sharing with this list his complete ignorance of these peoples' cultures, Marco left the members of the list with an entirely inaccruate conception of them at the time of both the Rio Cuarto and Campo de Cielo impacts. If and when Marco should ever choose to apologise for the belittling tone he took in his message, I will accept his apology. ep PS - By the way, Brenham was widely traded in North America long before Europeans ever showed up. --- Alex Crutchfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Grondine, You are out of line to post this rank > insult on the open meteorite > list, as it violates list rules and common decency. > You should have replied > privately. Now you should apologise publicly. > Alexander Crutchfield > IMCA #5361 > - Original Message - > From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 2:47 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo impact > - 17 February, 2325 BCE? > > > uhhh, Marco, > > Perhaps you want to play endless games about > cultural > artifacts and ethnicity, but I don't really have > time > for them here. I will note in passing that there are > no migrations into the Maya and Zoque homelands > between 2360 BCE (Rio Cuarto) and the later periods. > If you have any information different, then please > share it with us all. > > But this is really aside the point. Rio Cuarto has > a > 350 MEGATON hole in the ground, and wherever the > Zoque > (Olmec) and Maya ancestors were in this HEMISPHERE > they felt its effects. > > Since as you admit the Maya and Zoque are not your > fields of expertise, may I suggest that before you > start telling everyone about those "primitve" Native > Americans, and stating with such authority that of > course they didn't have an advanced culture, sea > going > commerce, and wide trading networks, that just > perhaps > you might want to read up on their cultures if only > a > little bit? > > After all, opinions which are not based on evidence > often are little more than guesses, and those > guesses > often throw more light on the guessor's > pre-suppositions than the facts. Sometimes, for > example, the guesses can reveal a real racist. > > As for background reading, a good source for an > introduction to the area is my original survey of > the > area, the link to which I provided. It was posted to > "anthropolgy in the news" site out of Texas A&M > several months back, and it is quite likely that > your > meso-american colleagues upstairs read it. > > And please take a copy of your note and my reply > with > you when you go upstairs to visit them. I am quite > sure they will enjoy reading it. > > I know I will. > > ep > > --- Marco Langbroek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > E.P. Grondine wrote: > > > > > It must be remembered that the massive > > > Rio Cuarto impact (350 megatons, 25 October, > 2360 > > BCE) > > > occured "near" to Campo de Cielo. Before the > Rio > > > Cuarto impact event, South America was populated > > by > > > culturally advanced peoples, who were killed by > > the > > > impact. These people would have been in trade > > contact > > > with both the Olmec and Maya. > > > > > > There is little doubt that the Maya were > severely > > > affected by the Rio Cuarto impact. > > > and hence their interest less than 35 years > later > > > (2325 BCE) in the area they called "Matawil". > > > > Hi Ed, > > > > My apologies, I actually took your initial mail > > serious and not as the joke > > as it was intended to be. Maybe I did because > > regularly this kind of posts > > pop up which >are< meant to be serious by the > person > > posting it! > > > > At any rate I must have been sleeping when I hit > the > > reply button for my > > earlier response. While noting the geographic > > discrepancy, the 2500 year > > chronological discrepancy (for the Maya: for the > > Olmecs its a mere 1000 > > years) went completely unnoticed by me. Shame, now > I > > won't dare to face my > > colleagues at the Meso-American department one > floor > > up in the building for > > at least 5 days to come... Well, as an excuse, I > am > > of course a Palaeolithic > > archaeologist, so Mayans and other meso-American > > civilizations are not my > > 'core business'... > > > > But would this not make great stuff for a scenario > > for a sci-fied-up Indiana > > Jones Movie? In which our hero enters a Maya > pyramid > > in search for a golden > > statuette, which is the entrance to a time tunnel > > transferring him from 1939 > > AD to 300 AD, the start of Maya civilization. That > > time-tunnel is kept > > operational by the Maya high priests (not so > > peculiar, for those guys were > > obsessed with time k
[meteorite-list] Fw: 10% off Buy It Now on ebay,Saturday ONLY
- Original Message - From: Michael Cottingham To: Michael Cottingham Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 12:04 PM Subject: 10% off Buy It Now on ebay,Saturday ONLY Hello, Just for Fun! Today. All day10% off of any of my Buy It Now items on ebay. Saturday Only...All Day. Just go ahead and buy the item using the Buy It Now feature and deduct 10% when you use Paypal or when you send payment. Remember I also pay shipping to anywhere in the world! go to: http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham
Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay Item # 1097060071
Greg and list: I went to ebay and looked up your number for ebay item# 1097060071. Uh...it come back for a clown ashtray match holder. I also tried to narrow the search using your description words: farmer, found, field --- also without luck. Can you repost with correct info? Thanks.. Best, Steven Sachs __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] remove me please
please remove me from mailing list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] re: Campo de Cielo impact - 17 February, 2325 BCE?
uhhh, Marco, Perhaps you want to play endless games about cultural artifacts and ethnicity, but I don't really have time for them here. I will note in passing that there are no migrations into the Maya and Zoque homelands between 2360 BCE (Rio Cuarto) and the later periods. If you have any information different, then please share it with us all. But this is really aside the point. Rio Cuarto has a 350 MEGATON hole in the ground, and wherever the Zoque (Olmec) and Maya ancestors were in this HEMISPHERE they felt its effects. Since as you admit the Maya and Zoque are not your fields of expertise, may I suggest that before you start telling everyone about those "primitve" Native Americans, and stating with such authority that of course they didn't have an advanced culture, sea going commerce, and wide trading networks, that just perhaps you might want to read up on their cultures if only a little bit? After all, opinions which are not based on evidence often are little more than guesses, and those guesses often throw more light on the guessor's pre-suppositions than the facts. Sometimes, for example, the guesses can reveal a real racist. As for background reading, a good source for an introduction to the area is my original survey of the area, the link to which I provided. It was posted to "anthropolgy in the news" site out of Texas A&M several months back, and it is quite likely that your meso-american colleagues upstairs read it. And please take a copy of your note and my reply with you when you go upstairs to visit them. I am quite sure they will enjoy reading it. I know I will. ep --- Marco Langbroek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > E.P. Grondine wrote: > > > It must be remembered that the massive > > Rio Cuarto impact (350 megatons, 25 October, 2360 > BCE) > > occured "near" to Campo de Cielo. Before the Rio > > Cuarto impact event, South America was populated > by > > culturally advanced peoples, who were killed by > the > > impact. These people would have been in trade > contact > > with both the Olmec and Maya. > > > > There is little doubt that the Maya were severely > > affected by the Rio Cuarto impact. > > and hence their interest less than 35 years later > > (2325 BCE) in the area they called "Matawil". > > Hi Ed, > > My apologies, I actually took your initial mail > serious and not as the joke > as it was intended to be. Maybe I did because > regularly this kind of posts > pop up which >are< meant to be serious by the person > posting it! > > At any rate I must have been sleeping when I hit the > reply button for my > earlier response. While noting the geographic > discrepancy, the 2500 year > chronological discrepancy (for the Maya: for the > Olmecs its a mere 1000 > years) went completely unnoticed by me. Shame, now I > won't dare to face my > colleagues at the Meso-American department one floor > up in the building for > at least 5 days to come... Well, as an excuse, I am > of course a Palaeolithic > archaeologist, so Mayans and other meso-American > civilizations are not my > 'core business'... > > But would this not make great stuff for a scenario > for a sci-fied-up Indiana > Jones Movie? In which our hero enters a Maya pyramid > in search for a golden > statuette, which is the entrance to a time tunnel > transferring him from 1939 > AD to 300 AD, the start of Maya civilization. That > time-tunnel is kept > operational by the Maya high priests (not so > peculiar, for those guys were > obsessed with time keeping and intricate calendar > systems), with the help of > some alien technology perhaps. They a.o. use it to > make a trading contact > over a gap of 2500 years with those Pampa indians in > Argentinia, at 2300 BC, > when the Campo de Cielo impact is imminent... > Our only problem for the scenario would be, how the > impact at 2325 BC all > affected this, or most notably the Maya. For they > simply could re-establish > contact by having their time-tunnel connect to a > moment just prior to the > event, isn't it? H, let's see; maybe they > couldn't adjust the length of > their time tunnels? No, that won't work, because > with a fixed length they > could not transfer our Indy from 1939 AD to 300 AD > toorats, and we > really can't leave Indy out.! But wait: eer; > maybe they could get > connection only to moments in history for which a > very peculiar situation > existed, ee, let's say: Venus had to be in > conjunction with the sun > while Jupiter was in the Pleiades or something like > that?! Would fit nice > with the Maya calendrical and celestial mechanics > obsession... Yes, that's a > solution alrightnow let's see, where did I have > Steven Spielberg's > phonenumber..? > > Cheers, > > - Marco > > --- > Marco Langbroekprivate: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Leiden University work: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Faculty of Archaeology > P.O. Box 9515 > http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek/ > NL-2300 RA Leiden >
[meteorite-list] Mega Deal NWA nice inclusions on Ebay
Hello all Inasmuch as all pieces putting on Ebay auctions of my NWA with strange inclusions have been all acquired with the buy it now, I have decided to insert 22 new pieces with other inclusions, and a new SaU 008 slice, the 2.4 gr. is go sold immediately on Ebay. If you want look here http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Regards Matteo = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
