Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay M-wrong

[Chauncey Walden]

magellon wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> Another Oriental wrong:  Thunder God Stone: CHINA OLD METEORITE
> Lightened  Photo .
> Anyone wish to venture as to what this actually is?
> Ken Newton
> 
>  
  Hainan Island has tektites.
Chauncey

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[meteorite-list] Ebay M-wrong

[magellon]

Greetings,
Another Oriental wrong:  Thunder
God Stone: CHINA OLD METEORITE
Lightened  Photo
.
Anyone wish to venture as to what this actually is?
Ken Newton
 
 

Re: [meteorite-list] Giant Dinosaurs Arrived With A Bang

[Edward Hodges]

Crocodilians, yes have been around for 100's of millions of years. Like I 
was telling Fred, The crocodile of today that he was using as his example 
didn't exist 65 million years ago. I'm not even sure how we got into this, 
but it's kind of silly. Anyone you ask on the street will tell you that all 
of the large animals that once ruled the Earth died 65 million years ago. 
The Supercroc died out, the crocs of today are tiny in comparison. 
Nit-picking will not change the facts. Everything big with the possible 
exception of some sea creatures went extinct. Life as it exists on Earth now 
is the result of 65 million years of evolution from tiny creatures that 
survived the famine, disease, and nuclear winter. There is no possible way 
that anything large could have survived, there wasn't food for it to eat.  I 
have nothing more to say, except pick up a book, get on the net, go to a 
museum, ask your teacher, or better yet blow your teacher away with 
something that he won't find in the textbooks that are tax dollar is wasted 
on. Some ideas, and theories seem radical then decades go by and the nuts 
turn out to be visionaries .-Edward

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Giant Dinosaurs Arrived With A Bang
>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:42:56 EDT
>
>Hello,
>Crocs have been around for hundreds of millions of years--along with
>alligators.
>Jason


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Re: [meteorite-list] Giant Dinosaurs Arrived With A Bang

[Fredmeteorhall]

Dear Edward:
    First of all, you did not specify how large the surviving reptile had to be. Second, crocodiles have been around for some 200 million years.
Regards, Fred Hall

[meteorite-list] Deformed Henbury etch patterns

[Starbits]

A while back I posted some pictures of a couple henbury 
slices with deformed etch patterns.  I received a number 
of emails about them and decided to have Jim Hartman cut 
up the rest of the piece.  Unfortunately my computer ate 
my list of individuals who contacted me.  Those of you 
who are interested please contact me.  Photos of the 
slices can be seen at the following URL.

http://www.star-bits.com/henbury2.htm

Eric Olson
http://www.star-bits.com

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Re: [meteorite-list] Giant Dinosaurs Arrived With A Bang

[S.Singletary]

whoops, never mind.  A few minutes of research reveal that Indocetus ramani 
(earliest known whale form) is from the lower Eocene - long after our 
controversial impact.


At 03:30 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, S.Singletary wrote:
>At 12:22 PM 5/17/2002 -0700, Edward Hodges wrote:
>
>>Fred- The Komodo Dragon wasn't around 65 million years ago, and either 
>>were crocodiles like the ones you see now. They have evolved to become a 
>>more effeciant and smaller predator. So, can you think over any large 
>>Reptiles, that have survived for at least the last 65 million years that 
>>are still the same size? The point is that all large creatures were wiped 
>>out 65 million years ago. It's not clear if the impact killed them, if 
>>the nuclear winter killed them, if they starved, or were wiped out by 
>>viruses. The fact remains that ALL large creatures were wiped from the 
>>face of the earth, with the possible exception of some sea creatures, 65 
>>million years ago by or from the effects of a large impact. By the way, 
>>10ft., and 25 ft. are hardly large animals when compared to the large 
>>animals that existed pre-impact.
>
>
>What about whales?  Anyone know when the first whales appear in the fossil 
>record?  I seem to remember something about a fossil find in the 
>afghan/pakistan region that was thought to be  transitional between whales 
>as we know them and a land bound animal.  Don't know the age of the find 
>though.  Pakicephalus I think was the name but I am definitely not 
>positive about that.
>
>Steven
>
>
>
>Steven Singletary
>54-1224
>Dept. Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences
>M.I.T.
>Cambridge, MA 02139
>Tel - 617.253.6398
>Fax - 617.253.7102
>
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Giant Dinosaurs Arrived With A Bang

[S.Singletary]

At 12:22 PM 5/17/2002 -0700, Edward Hodges wrote:

>Fred- The Komodo Dragon wasn't around 65 million years ago, and either 
>were crocodiles like the ones you see now. They have evolved to become a 
>more effeciant and smaller predator. So, can you think over any large 
>Reptiles, that have survived for at least the last 65 million years that 
>are still the same size? The point is that all large creatures were wiped 
>out 65 million years ago. It's not clear if the impact killed them, if the 
>nuclear winter killed them, if they starved, or were wiped out by viruses. 
>The fact remains that ALL large creatures were wiped from the face of the 
>earth, with the possible exception of some sea creatures, 65 million years 
>ago by or from the effects of a large impact. By the way, 10ft., and 25 
>ft. are hardly large animals when compared to the large animals that 
>existed pre-impact.


What about whales?  Anyone know when the first whales appear in the fossil 
record?  I seem to remember something about a fossil find in the 
afghan/pakistan region that was thought to be  transitional between whales 
as we know them and a land bound animal.  Don't know the age of the find 
though.  Pakicephalus I think was the name but I am definitely not positive 
about that.

Steven



Steven Singletary
54-1224
Dept. Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences
M.I.T.
Cambridge, MA 02139
Tel - 617.253.6398
Fax - 617.253.7102


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Re: [meteorite-list] Giant Dinosaurs Arrived With A Bang

[Edward Hodges]

Fred- The Komodo Dragon wasn't around 65 million years ago, and either were 
crocodiles like the ones you see now. They have evolved to become a more 
effeciant and smaller predator. So, can you think over any large Reptiles, 
that have survived for at least the last 65 million years that are still the 
same size? The point is that all large creatures were wiped out 65 million 
years ago. It's not clear if the impact killed them, if the nuclear winter 
killed them, if they starved, or were wiped out by viruses. The fact remains 
that ALL large creatures were wiped from the face of the earth, with the 
possible exception of some sea creatures, 65 million years ago by or from 
the effects of a large impact. By the way, 10ft., and 25 ft. are hardly 
large animals when compared to the large animals that existed pre-impact. 
Let's get this straight for those who are still confused, the Komodo Dragon, 
and the Crocodile are not dinosaurs that evolved, nor are they related other 
than in similar appearance to what we imagine dinosaurs might have looked 
like. After a huge event that wipes out almost all food on the planet is it 
unreasonable to think that all large un-effecient creature would surely 
starve, and or die of related complications? Imagine you are a 30 ton animal 
who survives a fiery impact that destroys everything around you. Now, what 
do you eat, and exactly how much would you have to eat everyday just to 
survive? My guess is that if you were a plant-eater you'd have to come up 
with at least 2 tons of vegetation everyday. Let's remember that there was 
no grass the way we know it today then. If you were a meat eater, after a 
while you'd have to feed on sick starving animals which breeds disease, 
which would eventual be passed to the herd. Global Catastrophic Mass 
Extinction of all large creatures, not just reptiles. It's all there in the 
research data, in the ground, and on the web. -Edward R. Hodges

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Giant Dinosaurs Arrived With A Bang
>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:37:24 EDT
>
>Hello Edward,
> Two reptiles that are large and survived are the Komodo dragon, length 
>up
>to 10 feet, and crocodiles, length up to 25 feet.
>Regards, Fred Hall


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RE: [meteorite-list] Re: Mercury Meteorite Puzzle

[Treiman, Allan]

Hi, all -- 

  Here's my two cents on NWA 011. 
  I think Mercury is unlikely. Reflection spectra of 
Mercury seem to say that its crust is nearly free of 
iron in its minerals, except perhaps as iron metal. 
That would rule out NWA 011. Some folks have
suggested that aubrites might be from Mercury, as 
their minerals are nearly iron-free. 
   Venus seems unlikely too. Its surface is so hot, and
its atmosphere so rich in sulfur dioxide, that all its 
surface rocks ought to be altered form sulfates. Especially
plagioclase feldspar ought to be altered to form anhydrite
(CaSO4). 
   So I vote for an asteroid.

  Allan

> -Original Message-
> From: Norbert Classen [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 5:28 PM
> To:   Robert Verish
> Cc:   meteorite-list
> Subject:  AW: [meteorite-list] Re: Mercury Meteorite Puzzle
> 
> Hello Rob, hello Mercury enthusiasts,
> 
> It's not okay! I think the statement that "NWA 011 has an
> oxygen isotope ratio that indicates it came from a body
> larger than a big asteroid" is quite nonsensical. What's the
> connection between oxygen isotope ratios and the size of
> a planet or an asteroid? If that would be true the aubrites
> would qualify as planetary meteorites, too, since they
> share the Earth's O-isotopic ratio...
> 
> Okay, I'm no planetary scientist, but what I've learned
> from my private studies on planetary meteorites is that the
> person who wrote this article mixed up some things. The facts
> suggesting NWA 011's origin from a larger body are most
> probably the unusually high FeO/MnO ratios similar to lunar
> values, although they are slightly lower for pyroxenes in
> NWA 011.
> 
> However, do the other data on NWA 011 suggest a planetary
> or Mercurian origin of this peculiar achondrite? I don't
> think so. Look at the data, NWA 011 has been described as
> "virtually unshocked", a fact making it hard to believe that
> this rock has been blasted off a planet. None of its
> plagioclase has been converted to maskelynite - the rims of
> the plagioclase crystals in NWA 011 aren't even slightly
> distorted. From what we know about lunar and Martian
> meteorites it seems quite improbable that this strange
> rock is of planetary origin at all. Don't get me wrong,
> I would be glad if we finally had the first Mercurian rock,
> and I would be willing to pay dearly for even a small piece.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong. As stated above, I'm no
> planetary scientist, but from what I know I must conclude
> that the "Mercurian origin" of NWA 011 is nothing but a
> wild guess. Has anyone seen data on the REE distribution
> in NWA 011 so far? Why don't they show as a nice "S"??
> Now, that would be something...
> 
> Best regards,
> Norbert Classen
> 
> Rob Verish wrote---
> >
> > "NWA 011 has an oxygen isotope ratio that indicates it
> > came from a body larger than a big asteroid."
> >
> > Okay.  This article explains to me why this meteorite
> > came from a body larger than an asteroid.  But it
> > doesn't explain how the other "planet-sized bodies" in
> > our solar system are being ruled-out in favor of
> > Mercury.
> >
> > Is there an upper limit for the suspect "planet-sized"
> > parent body, that would exclude Mars, Venus, or Earth!
> > (The 81Kr-Kr age for NWA011 is 39 ± 5 Ma, which can be
> > interpreted as an upper limit of the cosmic-ray
> > exposure age, which would exclude the proto-versions
> > of these inner planets)?
> >
> > Same-sized planetary bodies?  We know enough about the
> > Moon to rule out a Lunar-origin, but do we know enough
> > about the Galilean moons of Jupiter to rule them out?
> >
> > It would be interesting to see a matrix showing
> > suspect parent bodies vs. NWA 011 data, and to see
> > which evidence favors which "planet-sized body".
> >
> > Here's what we already know:
> >
> > April12th issue of Science, Akira Yamaguchi (National
> > Institute of Polar Research, Tokyo)
> > 
> >
> > Meteoritical Bulletin 84, Table 9
> >
> > --
> > [meteorite-list] MAPS and Mercury
> >
> > Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:20:10 +0200
> >
> > Marco wrote:
> >
> > > By the way, I remember that some time ago a paper on
> > the characteritsics and expected numbers of meteorites
> > from several parent bodies (including Mercury and
> > Venus) has been published in Meteoritics & Planetary
> > Science.
> > > Sorry I do not have an exact reference ready at the
> > moment: that's because I am packing up to move to
> > another house currently. But a search on NASA ADS will
> > probably reveil it to you.
> >
> >
> > LOVE S.G. et al. (1995) Recognizing mercurian
> > meteorites (MAPS 30-3, 1995, 269-278).
> >
> > ROBINSON M.S. et al. (2001) Ferrous oxide in Mercury's
> > crust and mantle (MAPS 36-6, 2001, pp. 841-847).
> >
> > Best regs,
> >
> > Bernd
> > ---
> >
> > [meteo

Re: [meteorite-list] Giant Dinosaurs Arrived With A Bang

[Fredmeteorhall]

Hello Edward,
    Two reptiles that are large and survived are the Komodo dragon, length up to 10 feet, and crocodiles, length up to 25 feet.
Regards, Fred Hall

[meteorite-list] Re: Mercury Meteorite Puzzle

[Ron Baalke]

BBC News article:
>>"NWA 011 has an oxygen isotope ratio that indicates it
>>came from a body larger than a big asteroid."

>Okay.  This article explains to me why this meteorite
>came from a body larger than an asteroid.  But it
>doesn't explain how the other "planet-sized bodies" in
>our solar system are being ruled-out in favor of
>Mercury.

Actually, it looks like the BBC didn't quite report this
correctly.   Yamaguchi reports that the meteorite came
from an "unknown, differentiated planetary object". And
Venus hasn't been ruled out.

In the April Science article by Herbert Palme,
he says the low Fe in the basaltic rock indicates it came
from a parent body with a metal core.  So, that would
narrow the candidates to Mercury, Venus, Earth, Moon,
Vesta or another large asteroid.  Oxygen isotopic differences
rules out Vesta.  A high FeO contest indicates the core
is on the small size, so that rules out the Earth. We have
samples of the Moon, and Mars meteorites, and their differences
would rule out these two bodies.  So, the candidate
list shrinks to Mercury, Venus or another large asteroid.  
Herbert Palme in his Science article says that "perhaps NWA011 is a 
basalt from Mercury".  It seems everyone has latched onto
that statement.  In the same paragraph, Palme also says that
"Alternatively, a much smaller asteroid may have produced basalts 
of compositions that are so far only known from the larger 
bodies of the solar system."

Anyway, at this point, we have 3 candidates for NWA 011: 
Mercury, Venus or a large asteroid.

Now, let's talk a little about the E chondrites, the other meteorite
group that is speculated to come from either Mercury or Venus.  
These meteorites have a very low oxygen content, which indicates they 
formed inside the orbit of Earth.  Since Mercury and Venus are inside 
of Earth's orbit, then by the process of elimination, that would 
indicate the parent body for E chondrites are either Mercury or Venus.  
OK, fair enough.

Now, consider the following.  In 1998, astronomers from the University 
of Hawaii announced the discovery of asteroid 1998 DK36. I've attached 
their press release at the end.  What is interesting about 1998 DK36 is 
its orbit.  This is the first asteroid discovered whose orbit lies 
entirely inside of Earth's orbit.  Though the asteroid is rather small 
at only about 40 meters in diameter, its discovery indicates that they 
may be other asteroids that exist, yet to be discovered, with similar
orbits that are also  entirely inside of Earth's orbit. In other words, 
the parent body of the E chondrites and NWA 011 may be an asteroid.
Such an asteroid would have to be large enough to form a metal core, 
and orbit closer to the Sun than the Earth.  Asteroids in these
types of orbits will be hard to observe from Earth because of their close 
proximity to the Sun. While it is still possible the
parent body for the E chondrites and NWA 011 may be Mercury or Venus,
you can't rule out asteroids just yet either. 

Ron Baalke

-

Institute for Astronomy
University of Hawaii

Contacts: Dr. David Tholen 808-956-6930   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Mr. Robert Whiteley  808-956-6700   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

July 1, 1998

Astronomers Find New Class of Asteroid

University of Hawaii astronomers have discovered a new type of asteroid,
whose orbits lie completely within the orbit of the Earth. Previously, all
known asteroids traveled in an orbit farther from the Sun than the Earth,
over at least a portion of their journey.

"All other efforts to discover asteroids on a collision course with the
Earth are being directed at a region of the sky almost opposite the Sun,"
said David Tholen, planetary astronomer at the Institute for Astronomy.

"The significance of this discovery is that we would have otherwise never
found this new asteroid because it apparently doesn't travel to that region
of the sky being scanned by other search efforts."

If such an asteroid's orbit around the Sun intersects with the Earth's
orbit, it could hit the Earth and we would have never seen it coming, said
Tholen. We would have been caught unaware by an asteroid approaching us from
the daytime side of the sky, he said.

Tholen and graduate student Robert Whiteley made the observation using a
specialized camera fitted on the University of Hawaii's 2.24-meter telescope
atop Mauna Kea last February.

While scanning the dusk and dawn skies to assess the size and number of
asteroids within the Earth's orbit, Whiteley spotted the object, since
designated 1998 DK36, on his computer screen, shortly after Tholen had
recorded the images at Mauna Kea Observatory and sent them to Whiteley's
computer via the Internet.

Additional observations made the following night made it possible to
compute a preliminary orbit of the object around the Sun. Tholen said the
exact size and shape of the asteroid orbit remain uncertain. However, the
orbit's farthes

[meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Find Rare Booty in African Desert (NWA 998 & NWA 1195)

[Ron Baalke]

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_meteorite_020517.html

Meteorite Hunters Find Rare Booty in African Desert
By Heather Sparks
space.com
17 May 2002

The Western Sahara, a fertile hunting ground for enthusiasts seeking
meteorites, offered up two rare Martian rocks in the past few months.

The discoveries bring the total of all known Martian meteorites to
twenty-six. (Meteorites are smallish rocks from space that fall to Earth. If
they don't impact, they are meteors.)

Of the two, one is a rock that is unique to Mars, called nakhlite. Nakhlite
is composed of pyroxene, a mineral common to Earth rocks, but a nakhlite's
ratio of calcium, magnesium and iron in its pyroxene is what makes it
unique.

Of all the known Martian meteorites, only five other nakhlites were
discovered. The age of this nakhlite, named NWA 998, is still unknown but
all the others like it are more than one billion years old.

The other new meteorite has been named NWA 1195, and is a volcanic rock
called shergottite of which there are now 12. They are all thought to be
closer to 200 million years old.

Scientists hope that by studying Martian meteorites our understanding of the
Red Planet's geological history will broaden. Yet, this is no simple task,
said Anthony Irving the project's geologist.

"When you try to describe a planet from twenty-six samples, it's like trying
to learn about the geology of the Peekskill Mountains by looking at the
pebbles in a river 50 miles away," he said.

Still, to Irving and fellow geologist Scott Kuehner of the Earth and Space
Science Department at the University of Washington who collaborated with
brothers Adam and Greg Hupe of Seattle, and two separate Saharan nomadic
groups, recovering and studying these recent specimens is worth the
struggle.

What they're going on, is the theory that two separate catastrophic
collisions from a comet or asteroid must have occurred on Mars to send these
masses to Earth. The characteristics that these rocks share, and those they
do not, are studied in depth to glean a better understanding of the events
and Mars, Irving said.

So far, the scientists know that both of the meteorites are igneous rocks,
meaning they formed on Mars from molten magma that eventually cooled and
solidified. The nakhlite must have formed underground, while the shergottite
was probably extruded in a lava flow.

Knowing the path these meteorites took to get here is another variable that
begs to be answered. However, it is unclear where nakhlite NWA 998 landed.

The Hupe brothers purchased that stone at the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show in
Feb 2002 from dealers who bought it from Western Saharan nomads. The
meteorite most likely came from Western Algeria, but the Berber people who
originally found it will not reveal the location of its discovery, and
despite a secondary search no more nakhlite has been recovered.

The shergottite NWA 1195 was recovered with much more accuracy because the
Hupe brothers actually taught their rock dealers in Morocco how to look for
Martian stones among the batches of Earth rocks found in the desert. The
difference between the two is often slight. Meteorites are usually magnetic,
but Martian rocks are not, or only slightly magnetic. This March, Adam Hupe
picked out NWA 1195 among a pile of Earth rocks in a shipment that arrived
in Seattle.

When Irving and Keuhner's scientific inspection verified the rock was indeed
a Martian shergottite, they realized it had broken off a larger piece after
it had landed on Earth.

A search for the other piece ensued. The dealers in Morocco had recorded
where the rock came from and soon a much larger stone was found 15 meters
away from the original finding in the Safsaf region of Eastern Morocco. The
original piece fit perfectly.

Still, the findings are just two of 26 stones from Mars. And if Irving and
enthusiasts like the Hupe brothers have anything to say about it, the search
for more clues to the Red Planet's catastrophic history will continue right
here on Earth for a long, long time.

"The power for me, is the knowledge you can gain from studying them," Irving
said. "And it certainly is neat to touch these things from other places. "

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[meteorite-list] Costa Mesa Rock and Mineral Show

[Radosevich, Dave]

Anybody know who's going? This is a really neat show if your in So.Calif. Usually a 
few meteorite dealers show up. Marvin? Farmer? Tobin?

I will be there tonight.

Dave Radosevich

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[meteorite-list] Meteor Team In Denver Seeking Help With Tracking

[Ron Baalke]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_1151823,00.html

Meteor team seeking help with tracking

By Jim Erickson
Rocky Mountain News (Colorado)
May 17, 2002

Nine months after a blazing fireball exploded over Saguache County, 
Denver researchers will visit the area to teach residents how to spot 
the meteorites that may have been left behind. 

The Aug. 17 fireball was one of the brightest seen in Colorado in 
more than 30 years. One witness said it lit the night sky like noontime 
and was followed by up to 30 artillery-like explosions that shook
the forest. 

The space rock weighed about a ton and probably exploded 14 miles above 
the ground, said Jack Murphy, curator of geology at the Denver Museum 
of Nature & Science. Basketball-sized chunks may have rained down on 
the rugged forested hills southeast of Gunnison, Murphy said. 

On Memorial Day weekend, Murphy and other members of the museum's 
Meteorite Survey Team will discuss the fireball and show meteorite 
samples at free exhibits and lectures in the town of Saguache. 

On May 25, team members will present an exhibit -- including maps and 
information on meteorite identification -- from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. at 
the Mountain Valley High School library in Saguache. 

On May 26, the exhibit will be presented again at the Saguache Museum, 
from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. 

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[meteorite-list] Tombaugh House Moving Sale (AD)

[meteorites]

Well folks, I have been busy for almost a year on
something other than meteorites.  And once this project
that I have been involved in (or traped in)is over I
will be ready for some much needed R&R meteorite
hunting.

Here is the first story on the project. Click the link
and see:

http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/nav_includes/story.cfm?storyID=40592

This will undoubtedly cost much more than what I had
anticipated, but I think (hope) in the long run will be
well worth it.  On (May 13th) the house was elevated
off its foundation and some "worms" have appeared.  (to
be expected of a house that was built in 1908).  I have
lost a lot of sleep over this, but on May 15th the
house was successfully moved 300 feet to my property
where its foundation is being constructed under it.

Click the following to see the moving process (takes a
moment to load):

http://www.geocities.com/american_meteorite_survey/house/Move.htm

So, to obtain needed funds for this project, I am
offering the following deal to any interested.

(Cash only)

I wish to sell what I have remaining of my Glorieta
meteorites for $5 per/gram.  For this meteorite I will
only do this once, and only for this project.  I doubt
that this meteorite will ever be offered so low again.

The largest one is 658 grams, and the oriented one is
386 grams.  I also have one 2,700 gram Glorieta
spicule, which I might also sell for $4 per/gram.  (But
this is the second largest that I have found and though
I will need the case I am still reluctant to part with
it)

To see the 658 gram and 386 gram pieces click:
http://www.geocities.com/american_meteorite_survey/GLORIETA.html

(I will post a picture of the 2.7 kilo piece on request)

Also, I have quite a number of nice Imilac meteorites
these I will let go in bulk for $3 per/gram.  I will
have to look over what I have, but I think that I have
about 2 kilos of samples ranging from 10 to 50 grams.

Also, take a look at my sale page, and if anything
interests you give me a serious offer (below my asking
price, or course) and I might go for it.

http://www.geocities.com/american_meteorite_survey


If interested, contact me off list.


Thanks,

Steve Schoner
http://www.geocites.com/american_meteorite_survey

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Re: [meteorite-list] Is really Richfield this?

[almitt]

Hi All,

Saw this meteorwrong and was going to post about it but see others have spotted it
already!

--AL


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[meteorite-list] Workshop On Mars Meteorites: Oct 11-13, 2002

[Ron Baalke]

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/sncs2002/sncs2002.1st.html

-

UNMIXING THE SNCS:
Chemical, Isotopic, and Petrologic 
Componensts of the Martian Meteorites

October 11-13, 2002
Houston Texas


FIRST ANNOUNCEMENT
May 2002

SPONSORED BY
Lunar and Planetary Institute

SCIENTIFIC ORGANIZERS
Allan H. Treiman  Christopher D. K. Herd
Lunar and Planetary Institute Lunar and Planetary Institute
Phone: 281-486-2117   Phone: 281-244-2021
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

CO-CONVENERS
John Jones, NASA Johnson Space Center
David Mittlefehldt, NASA Johnson Space Center

-

When and Where

A workshop on Unmixing the SNCs will be held on October 11-13,
2002, at the Lunar and Planetary Institute (LPI). The LPI is
housed in the Center for Advanced Space Studies, 3600 Bay Area
Boulevard, Houston, Texas.

Purpose and Scope

Martian meteorites, despite being all basalts or their
derivatives, show an enormous range of chemical and isotopic
compositions. In some respects this breadth is greater than that
of all basaltic rocks on Earth. Much of the compositional
variability can be modeled as mixtures of chemical and isotopic
components, and some components have been assigned to specific
geological/chemical reservoirs: mantle, crust, atmosphere,
regolith, and hydrosphere. If mixing components in the SNCs can be
characterized, we will gain insight into hidden aspects of martian
geology and geochemistry - hitherto unsampled rock types and/or
poorly characterized processes and geological environments.

But just what are the components that make up the martian
meteorites? What are their chemical and isotopic properties? Do
they represent recognizable source rocks, reservoirs, or
geochemical processes? Are physical traces of them, mineral
grains, or xenoliths recognizable in the meteorites? And how have
they come to be mixed?

   * Among the shergottites, many seemingly unrelated chemical and
isotopic parameters are strongly correlated: e.g., oxygen
fugacity, initial Sr and Nd isotope ratios, and La/Yb ratio.
These correlations suggest that the martian basalts are
mixtures of distinct chemical/isotopic components (rock types
or chemical reservoirs), the end members of which may not be
represented among the meteorites themselves. Do these
components represent mantle sources, crustal contaminants,
metasomatic influxes, or what?

   * More than 10 years ago, it was shown that some radioisotope
parameters in the shergottites could be represented as
mixtures from several reservoirs, one of which is consistent
with the source material of the nakhlites. Can other
radioisotope systems be explained by these same components,
are different components required, or are additional
components required?

   * The heavy noble gases in the martian meteorites are
interpretable as mixtures of discrete components, including
atmosphere, primitive mantle, and fractionated atmosphere.
Are these noble gas components associated with components
defined by other chemical and isotopic systems (e.g., an
atmospheric signature of high D/H and high D17O)?

   * The bulk chemical compositions of some shergottite basalts
are represented well as mixtures of lherzolites and other
shergottites. Could this relationship imply that these
shergottites are impact melts?

   * Shock melts in the shergottites can contain the high
concentrations of a surface component - the martian
atmosphere. Are other surface components detectable in the
shock melts or elsewhere in the meteorites? For instance, it
has been proposed that that shock melts contain traces of
regolith or dust. Can this be confirmed or extended? How else
might the martian meteorites retain clues to the nature of
martian regolith?

If these many proposed mixing components can be characterized, we
will gain insight into hidden aspects of martian geology and
geochemistry - hitherto unsampled rock types and/or poorly
characterized processes and geological environments. While
important to the petrologist and geochemist, this knowledge could
be useful in interpreting spacecraft data about Mars. For
instance, if mantle components can be defined, they will help in
interpreting geophysical data on the martian interior (as from the
MOLA and magnetometer instruments on MGS) by constraining the
chemical and thermal states of the mantle. If crustal and regolith
components can be recognized, they may be critical in interpreting
chemical and mineralogical data for the martian surface, as from
the TES instrument on MGS and the Gamma-Ray Spectrometer on Mars
Odyssey, or data obtained in situ at the surface by rovers such as
MER. In this way, unmixing the martian meteorites can strengthen
the ties between sample science and remote sensing science, and
further demonstrat

Re: [meteorite-list] Re - Warning Virus

[John Gwilliam]

At 10:42 PM 5/16/02 -0700, Steven Drummond wrote:
 I Want to
thank the list for this information on the virus , I cant remember who
exactly but I do remember something was said about "A powerful
tool" .
  Tonight I received an email from 
" lukeandkim"  The subject matter was "A
Powerful Tool"   Since I do not
know who lukeandkim are and I remembered the subject line " A
Powerful Tool " I removed this email before it had a chance to do
any harm. Thanks Again !   
   
Steven Drummond "The Unknown Collector" :-)
    

This current virus is a lot more destructive and clandestine than most
folks would like to think.  Rather than go into too many details
here, go to the website below and follow the links to the Win32/Klez.H@mm
virus alert.  There is great info here.  This nasty little
bugger even has it's own email engine!



Good Luck to all,

John Gwilliam
John Gwilliam Meteorites
PO Box 26854
Tempe  AZ  85285
http://www.meteoriteimpact.com

Re: [meteorite-list] Is really Richfield this?

[Martin Horejsi]

Nope. Not even close.

-Martin



On 5/17/02 12:50 AM, "Matteo Chinellato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hello all
> 
> Look this on ebay
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2104158466
> 
> is really a piece of this meteorite?
> Regards
> 
> Matteo
> 
> 
> =
> M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
> Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site:
> http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
> International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
> MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> 
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> LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
> http://launch.yahoo.com
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


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[meteorite-list] Collection SALE Price Reduction

[John Collier]

Hello List

I have sold a few pieces and would like to offer the
rest at a reduced price to the list. This is your
chance to get rare material at inexpensive prices. As
before, I have pictures for most pieces. Also, many
pieces will be sent with copy of sales invoices/labels
to authenticate.  All prices are FIRM, and sold to
first person interested in sending funds. Please add
$6
shipping. This will be my last listing.

thanks
Mike Collier


ACHONDRITES:
Tatahouine (Diogenite, Fell 1931) 
2.84g (3 nice pieces green with dark veins in
Riker)-$12/gram

Kapoeta (Howardite, Fell 1942) AT $200/g 
I have 5 fragments from a single 1.1g part slice (I
will send a pic of the original for reference).  These
are all FRESH fragments, don't miss your chance to get
a example!  This is $500/g fro a dealer, but I will
sell it for my cost!

0.67g (fresh fragment, part slice) + Riker Mount
0.24g (fresh fragment, part slice) + Riker Mount
0.10g (2 fragments in 2 vials)
0.15g (Dust and 1 fragment in 2 vials)
 

NWA 869 (L5 chondrite with carbonaceous inclusions?)

123g (Slab, dark carbonaceous? areas surrounding light
breccia)-
$0.50/gram

110g (Quarter of individual, with breccia and 2cm
carbonacous? inclusion)-$1/gram (This is one of the
best examples I have seen!)

--
OTHER SMALL EXAMPLES

Kainsaz (0.2g part slice with crust) $15

DaG 400 LUNAR (~10mg chips in vial) $20

Tagish Lake (C-ungrouped?) (0.1g fragments in vial
up to 20mg, many with crust)  $20

Mt. Egerton (Aubrite, Found 1941) (2g of fragments (5)
in Riker mount) $25


END-thanks


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Re: [meteorite-list] Giant Dinosaurs Arrived With A Bang

[Edward Hodges]

Well Gordon, let's not make the mistake of calling reptiles; dinosuars. They 
really aren't the same thing, not really even related. When the 
classification system is modified they will be shown to have more in common 
with the cow, (reptiles that is). The smaller dinosaurs obviously evolved 
into birds, as Archaeopteryx lithographica is a clear example of. Life 
always finds a way. Life on Earth was changed by cataclysmic events more 
than a few times. It's too bad that really old theories about the evolution 
of life are still taught to kids in school. I suggest to anyone interested 
to read about these newer more sensical theories at 
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/diapsids/avians.html, or read " Dinosaurs under 
the Big Sky", and "Digging Dinosaurs" by Jack Horner. This guy was the model 
for Dr. Alan Grant in the Jurassic Park movies as well as the technical 
director. His theories about T-rex, being a total scavenger and not a 
predator at all are controversial in themselves. All I'm saying is stay away 
from the school text books and try reading something that scares you with 
all it's new fangled idears Could you name a few of the "reptiles" that were 
large and survived? I can't think of one.  Even we evolved from a small 
shrew like creature that probably ate rotten who knows what to survive.Even 
the Bible gives us a story of Noah's Ark, and how life was utterly swept 
from the face of the Earth, but yet life found a way. Well anyway, who's got 
something to say about meteorites?- Edward R. Hodges


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the conditions that surround him... 
The unreasonable man adapts surrounding conditions to himself... All 
progress depends on the unreasonable man."- George Bernard Shaw


>From: "Gordon Trone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Edward Hodges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Giant Dinosaurs Arrived With A Bang
>Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 20:25:46 -0500
>
>There were and are several larger reptiles that obviously survived quite
>nicely. And they didn't evolve into anything different... so what really
>happened to the small dinosaurs???
>Gordon Trone
>- Original Message -
>From: "Edward Hodges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 4:42 PM
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Giant Dinosaurs Arrived With A Bang
>
>
> >
> > The theory is that after the impact there was a nuclear winter that
>blocked
> > out the sun long enough to kill off the food sources that would sustain
> > large animals. Since large animal require large quanities of food, it
>would
> > make sense that they would die out pretty fast. So all that's left are
>small
> > reptiles, amphibians, small dinosaurs that eventually evolved into 
>birds,
> > and small endothermic mammals. They might have survived on rotting 
>organic
> > matter, molds, fungus, lichen and each other. When the skies cleared, 
>all
> > that were left are the little creatures, and they were the new rulers of
>the
> > Earth. That's my take on it anyway. - Edward R. Hodges
> >
> >
> > >From: George Winters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Giant Dinosaurs Arrived With A Bang
> > >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:03:58 -0600
> > >
> > >I always love to debate this issue of impact caused extinction.  There 
>is
> > >no doubt that an asteroid or some large body struck the earth about 65
> > >million years ago (and many times prior to that event).  But the fact
>that
> > >the event happened, does not prove that it was the sole cause for the
>mass
> > >extinction.
> > >
> > >There are to many holes in the theory.  My favorite example, is that 
>the
> > >creatures that should have been severely affected such as birds, frogs,
> > >turtles and many forms of microscopic life, in fact survived the
> > >event.  These animals and plants are very sensitive to their
> > >environment.  Today we are loosing many species because of much less
>severe
> > >changes to habitats Then a large impact would cause.  I feel that it is
> > >more likely that the impact contributed to the extinction of already
> > >weakened groups such as the dinosaurs and other marine and flying
>reptiles.
> > >
> > >At 12:56 PM 5/16/2002 -0700, you wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns2290
> > >>
> > >>Giant dinosaurs arrived with a bang
> > >>New Scientist
> > >>May 16, 2002
> > >>
> > >>Dinosaurs may have arrived with a bang, as well as gone out with one.
> > >>Scientists have found the hallmarks of a meteorite impact and mass
> > >>extinction in rocks just below strata containing the earliest 
>footprints
> > >>of
> > >>large meat-eating dinosaurs.
> > >>
> > >>The finding of high levels of iridium metal and fossilised fern spores
> > >>suggests that a sudden extinction cleared the ecological stage, 
>leaving
> > >>room
> > >>for meat-eating dinosaurs to grow suddenly larger. A subsequent, 
>massive
> > >>meteorite impact 

[meteorite-list] Is really Richfield this?

[Matteo Chinellato]

Hello all

Look this on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2104158466

is really a piece of this meteorite?
Regards

Matteo


=
M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: 
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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[meteorite-list] Re - Warning Virus

[Steven Drummond]

 I Want to thank the list for this information 
on the virus , I cant remember who exactly but I do remember something was said 
about "A powerful tool" .
  Tonight I received 
an email from  " lukeandkim"  The subject matter was 
"A Powerful Tool"   Since I do not know who 
lukeandkim are and I remembered the subject line " A Powerful Tool " I 
removed this email before it had a chance to do any 
harm. Thanks Again !   
    
Steven Drummond "The Unknown Collector" :-)

[meteorite-list] 2003 Meteorite Calendar

[Roman Jirasek]

OK list members, check this out!

http://www.meteoritelabels.com/2003.html

After a lot of hard work and stress, I am blown away
at the results. We are 90% finished the production of
The Third Millennium Meteorite Calendar, 2003 Edition.

Look at some sample pages at the link above. They
are much, much nicer when seen full size, but you
will have to buy one to see that!

Good day,
Roman Jirasek
Ontario, Canada








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[meteorite-list] hubble telescope

[David Calongne]

or the one in hawaii, hi list, seems to need to get reflectibility  data
on the jupiter system to see if nwa 011 is from there? it might be
cheaper than a probe if telescopes are capable to dissect the light of a
many mineral type surfaces.


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