[meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[Bernhard \"Rendelius\" Rems]

Title: Nachricht



http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3239
 

Kind 
regards,
 
Bernhard 
“Rendelius” Rems
 

[meteorite-list] Boom, Poof, or Sizzle!

[David Freeman]

Dear Listees;
I came across an interesting bit of reading material that noted an area 
here in SW Wyoming is used as a natural gas  underground storage unit. 
The formation has natural gas pumped into  it under high pressure and 
the rock formation acts as a natural "tank" if you will. This tank holds 
over 110 Billion cubic feet of natural gas (picture an arasol can 10 
miles big a mile down).   We have another field not far to the east, 
just as big, and major coal and coal bed methane occurrences in between 
and all over the place, many being developed at a fever pace.
Now to the good stuff that prompted the boom, poof and fizzle..
If the surface injection wells, and the piping down to the depth of the 
gas reservoirs were blasted by a meteorite like the Barringer Crater 
incident, what would be the odds of an explosion of the gas being held 
there? I am sure the gas would escape the "tank" formation.  A shock of 
this nature could unleash the coal bed methane in explosive levels as 
well.   There are over 8 major (meaning full capacity and 30" diameter) 
natural gas transfer lines through this area supplying natural gas to 
all of our friends in other states, we have 25% of the US proven 
reserves (out side of Alaska that is).
Sudden impact barbecue possible?
inquiring mind wants to know.
Dave Freeman

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Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[David Freeman]

Sikote Alin? Would surely like to see the picture of the "certificate of 
authenticity" he refers to...
DF

Bernhard \"Rendelius\" Rems wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3239 
 

Kind regards,

Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems



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[meteorite-list] Ad: V Buchwald Iron Meteorites

[meteorites.us - Walt]

Greetings all!
I'm back on the list to make a shameless plug!

I am selling on Ebay a friend's pristine copy of Vagn Buchwald's "Handbook of Iron 
Meteorites", the 3 vol set in a sleeve.

here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2228&item=3580880926

Hope to see my good friends in Tucson again this year!

Walt




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The most personalized portal on the Web!

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Re: [meteorite-list] Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection

[Thomas Webb]

Ron and List,
Does it appear to you that there may have been some shearing on the right hand side of the rock called 'Adirondack'?
Thomas H. WebbRon Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Guy Webster (818) 354-5011Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.Donald Savage (202) 358-1547NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C.News Release: 2004-024 January 19, 2004Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close InspectionNASA's Spirit rover has successfully driven to its first target onMars, a football-sized rock that scientists have dubbed Adirondack.The Mars Exploration Rover flight team at NASA's Jet PropulsionLaboratory, Pasadena, Calif., plans to send commands to Spirit earlyTuesday to examine Adirondack with a microscope and two instrumentsthat reveal the composition of rocks, said JPL's Dr. Mark Adler,Spirit mission manager. The instruments are the Mössbauer spectrometer and the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer.Spirit successfully rolled off the lander and onto the
 martiansurface last Thursday. To make the drive to Adirondack, the roverturned 40 degrees in short arcs totaling 95 centimeters (3.1 feet).It then turned in place to face the target rock and drove four shortmoves straightforward totaling 1.9 meters (6.2 feet). The movescovered a span of 30 minutes on Sunday, though most of that wassitting still and taking pictures between moves. The total amountof time when Spirit was actually moving was about two minutes."These are the sorts of baby steps we're taking," said JPL's Dr.Eddie Tunstel, rover mobility engineer."The drive was designed for two purposes, one of which was to get tothe rock," Tunstel said. "From the mobility engineers' standpoint,this drive was geared to testing out how we do drives on this newsurface." Gathering new information such as how much the wheelsslip in the martian soil will give the team confidence for moreambitious drives in future weeks and
 months."Adirondack is now about one foot (30 centimeters) in front of thefront wheels," he said.Scientists chose Adirondack to be Spirit's first target rock ratherthan another rock, called Sashimi, that would have been a shorter,straight-ahead drive. Rocks are time capsules containing evidence ofthe environmental conditions of the past, said Dr. Dave Des Marais,a rover science-team member from NASA Ames Research Center, MoffettField, Calif. "We needed to decide which of these time capsules toopen."Sashimi appears dustier than Adirondack. The dust layer couldobscure good observations of the rock's surface, which may giveinformation about chemical changes and other weathering fromenvironmental conditions affecting the rock since its surface wasfresh. Also, Sashimi is more pitted than Adirondack. That makes it apoorer candidate for the rover's rock abrasion tool, which scrapesaway a rock's surface for a view of
 the interior evidence aboutenvironmental conditions when the rock first formed. Adirondack hasa "nice, flat surface" well suited to trying out the rover's toolson their first martian rock, Des Marais said."The hypothesis is that this is a volcanic rock, but we'll test thathypothesis," he said. Spirit arrived at Mars Jan. 3 (EST and PST; Jan.4 Universal Time) after a seven-month journey. In coming weeks and months,according to plans, it will be exploring for clues in rocks andsoil to decipher whether the past environment in Gusev Craterwas ever watery and possibly suitable to sustain life.Spirit's twin Mars Exploration Rover, Opportunity, will reach Marson Jan. 25 (EST and Universal Time; 9:05 p.m., Jan. 24, PST) tobegin a similar examination of a site on the opposite side of theplanet from Gusev Crater.JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology inPasadena, manages the Mars Exploration
 Rover project for NASA'sOffice of Space Science, Washington, D.C. Images and additionalinformation about the project are available from JPL athttp://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.govfrom Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., at http://athena.cornell.edu/ .-end-__Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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[meteorite-list] San Bernardino Gold/Treasure Show OT

[GeoZay]

HelloDid anyone here by any chance attend the GPAA Gold and Treasure show in San Bernardino, Calif. Last weekend? I was there and was surprised to overhear two guys talking about meteorites. Later I introduced myself to one of them and gave what I thought was the list address from memory. I now know I've botched the address I gave him. Hopefully he will be able to find it by other means. He told me an interesting story of when he was a kid, he heard some thundering noise and the next morning found a fist sized rock in their swimming pool. He described it as being dark. Anyhow, they retrieved it and bust it up with a hammer...only later the notion of it might being a meteorite came up. Oh well
George Zay

RE: [meteorite-list] Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection

[mark ford]

 

 

Looks like there are quite a few vesicles
too….

 

Mark Ford

 

-Original Message-
From: Thomas Webb
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 20 January 2004 14:36
To: Ron Baalke
Cc:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection

 



Ron and List,





Does it appear to you
that there may have been some shearing on the right hand side of the rock
called 'Adirondack'?





Thomas H. Webb

Ron Baalke
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







Guy Webster (818) 354-5011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

Donald Savage (202) 358-1547
NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C.

News Release: 2004-024 January 19, 2004

Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection

NASA's Spirit rover has successfully driven to its first target on
Mars, a football-sized rock that scientists have dubbed Adirondack.

The Mars Exploration Rover flight team at NASA's Jet Propulsion
Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., plans to send commands to Spirit early
Tuesday to examine Adirondack with a microscope and two instruments
that reveal the composition of rocks, said JPL's Dr. Mark Adler,
Spirit mission manager. The instruments are the Mössbauer 
spectrometer and the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer.

Spirit successfully rolled off the lander and onto the martian
surface last Thursday. To make the drive to Adirondack, the rover
turned 40 degrees in short arcs totaling 95 centimeters (3.1 feet).
It then turned in place to face the target rock and drove four short
moves straightforward totaling 1.9 meters (6.2 feet). The moves
covered a span of 30 minutes on Sunday, though most of that was
sitting still and taking pictures between moves. The total amount
of time when Spirit was actually moving was about two minutes.

"These are the sorts of baby steps we're taking," said JPL's Dr.
Eddie Tunstel, rover mobility engineer.

"The drive was designed for two purposes, one of which was to get to
the rock," Tunstel said. "From the mobility engineers' standpoint,
this drive was geared to testing out how we do drives on this new
surface." Gathering new information such as how much the wheels
slip in the martian soil will give the team confidence for more
ambitious drives in future weeks and months.

"Adirondack is now about one foot (30 centimeters) in front of the
front wheels," he said.

Scientists chose Adirondack to be Spirit's first target rock rather
than another rock, called Sashimi, that would have been a shorter,
straight-ahead drive. Rocks are time capsules containing evidence of
the environmental conditions of the past, said Dr. Dave Des Marais,
a rover science-team member from NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett
Field, Calif. "We needed to decide which of these time capsules to
open."

Sashimi appears dustier than Adirondack. The dust layer could
obscure good observations of the rock's surface, which may give
information about chemical changes and other weathering from
environmental conditions affecting the rock since its surface was
fresh. Also, Sashimi is more pitted than Adirondack. That makes it a
poorer candidate for the rover's rock abrasion tool, which scrapes
away a rock's surface for a view of the interior evidence about
environmental conditions when the rock first formed. Adirondack has
a "nice, flat surface" well suited to trying out the rover's tools
on their first martian rock, Des Marais said.

"The hypothesis is that this is a volcanic rock, but we'll test that
hypothesis," he said. 

Spirit arrived at Mars Jan. 3 (EST and PST; Jan.
4 Universal Time) after a seven-month journey. In coming weeks and months,
according to plans, it will be exploring for clues in rocks and
soil to decipher whether the past environment in Gusev Crater
was ever watery and possibly suitable to sustain life.

Spirit's twin Mars Exploration Rover, Opportunity, will reach Mars
on Jan. 25 (EST and Universal Time; 9:05 p.m., Jan. 24, PST) to
begin a similar examination of a site on the opposite side of the
planet from Gusev Crater.

JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in
Pasadena, manages the Mars Exploration Rover project for NASA's
Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. Images and additional
information about the project are available from JPL at

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov

from Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., at 

http://athena.cornell.edu/ .
-end-





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The information contained in this email may be commercially sensitive and/or legally privileged. It is intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you are not a named recipient, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. You must not disclose

Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: new litosiderite for sale--open in the meteorite

[Idijay]

Note that the certificate does NOT say that it's a meteorite. That is listed as the 
name of the rock. 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection

[Dan Wray]

Hello Thomas and group,
 
Adirondack and many other rocks in the rover photos 
appear to be altered by wind erosion. This can leave very sharp faces and are 
known as ventifacts.  Other terms used for this effect are 
dreikanter also windkanter.  Seasonal changes in wind direction 
can cause two or three distinct planes on the rock surface.  They are 
common in windy desert environments.
 
Dan Wray
COMETS 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Thomas Webb 
  
  To: Ron Baalke 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 7:35 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Spirit 
  Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection
  
  Ron and List,
  Does it appear to you that there may have been some shearing on the right 
  hand side of the rock called 'Adirondack'?
  Thomas H. WebbRon Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  Guy 
Webster (818) 354-5011Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, 
Calif.Donald Savage (202) 358-1547NASA Headquarters, Washington, 
D.C.News Release: 2004-024 January 19, 2004Spirit Drives to 
a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close InspectionNASA's Spirit rover 
has successfully driven to its first target onMars, a football-sized 
rock that scientists have dubbed Adirondack.The Mars Exploration 
Rover flight team at NASA's Jet PropulsionLaboratory, Pasadena, Calif., 
plans to send commands to Spirit earlyTuesday to examine Adirondack with 
a microscope and two instrumentsthat reveal the composition of rocks, 
said JPL's Dr. Mark Adler,Spirit mission manager. The instruments are 
the Mössbauer spectrometer and the alpha particle X-ray 
spectrometer.Spirit successfully rolled off the lander and onto the 
martiansurface last Thursday. To make the drive to Adirondack, the 
roverturned 40 degrees in short arcs totaling 95 centimeters (3.1 
feet).It then turned in place to face the target rock and drove four 
shortmoves straightforward totaling 1.9 meters (6.2 feet). The 
movescovered a span of 30 minutes on Sunday, though most of that 
wassitting still and taking pictures between moves. The total 
amountof time when Spirit was actually moving was about two 
minutes."These are the sorts of baby steps we're taking," said JPL's 
Dr.Eddie Tunstel, rover mobility engineer."The drive was 
designed for two purposes, one of which was to get tothe rock," Tunstel 
said. "From the mobility engineers' standpoint,this drive was geared to 
testing out how we do drives on this newsurface." Gathering new 
information such as how much the wheelsslip in the martian soil will 
give the team confidence for moreambitious drives in future weeks and 
months."Adirondack is now about one foot (30 centimeters) in front 
of thefront wheels," he said.Scientists chose Adirondack to be 
Spirit's first target rock ratherthan another rock, called Sashimi, that 
would have been a shorter,straight-ahead drive. Rocks are time capsules 
containing evidence ofthe environmental conditions of the past, said Dr. 
Dave Des Marais,a rover science-team member from NASA Ames Research 
Center, MoffettField, Calif. "We needed to decide which of these time 
capsules toopen."Sashimi appears dustier than Adirondack. The 
dust layer couldobscure good observations of the rock's surface, which 
may giveinformation about chemical changes and other weathering 
fromenvironmental conditions affecting the rock since its surface 
wasfresh. Also, Sashimi is more pitted than Adirondack. That makes it 
apoorer candidate for the rover's rock abrasion tool, which 
scrapesaway a rock's surface for a view of the interior evidence 
aboutenvironmental conditions when the rock first formed. Adirondack 
hasa "nice, flat surface" well suited to trying out the rover's 
toolson their first martian rock, Des Marais said."The 
hypothesis is that this is a volcanic rock, but we'll test 
thathypothesis," he said. Spirit arrived at Mars Jan. 3 (EST and 
PST; Jan.4 Universal Time) after a seven-month journey. In coming weeks 
and months,according to plans, it will be exploring for clues in rocks 
andsoil to decipher whether the past environment in Gusev Craterwas 
ever watery and possibly suitable to sustain life.Spirit's twin Mars 
Exploration Rover, Opportunity, will reach Marson Jan. 25 (EST and 
Universal Time; 9:05 p.m., Jan. 24, PST) tobegin a similar examination 
of a site on the opposite side of theplanet from Gusev 
Crater.JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology 
inPasadena, manages the Mars Exploration Rover project for 
NASA'sOffice of Space Science, Washington, D.C. Images and 
additionalinformation about the project are available from JPL 
athttp://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.govfrom Cornell University, 
Ithaca, N.Y., at http://athena.cornell.edu/ 
.-end-___

RE: [meteorite-list] Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection

[mark ford]

 

Nice B & W image of Adirondack….

 

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/016/2P127783908EFF0327P2370L7M1.JPG

 

 

-Original Message-
From: mark ford 
Sent: 20 January 2004 14:58
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list]
Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection

 

 

 

Looks
like there are quite a few vesicles too….

 

Mark
Ford

 

-Original Message-
From: Thomas Webb
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 20 January 2004 14:36
To: Ron Baalke
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection

 



Ron and List,





Does it appear to you
that there may have been some shearing on the right hand side of the rock
called 'Adirondack'?





Thomas H. Webb

Ron Baalke
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







Guy Webster (818) 354-5011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

Donald Savage (202) 358-1547
NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C.

News Release: 2004-024 January 19, 2004

Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection

NASA's Spirit rover has successfully driven to its first target on
Mars, a football-sized rock that scientists have dubbed Adirondack.

The Mars Exploration Rover flight team at NASA's Jet Propulsion
Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., plans to send commands to Spirit early
Tuesday to examine Adirondack with a microscope and two instruments
that reveal the composition of rocks, said JPL's Dr. Mark Adler,
Spirit mission manager. The instruments are the Mössbauer 
spectrometer and the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer.

Spirit successfully rolled off the lander and onto the martian
surface last Thursday. To make the drive to Adirondack, the rover
turned 40 degrees in short arcs totaling 95 centimeters (3.1 feet).
It then turned in place to face the target rock and drove four short
moves straightforward totaling 1.9 meters (6.2 feet). The moves
covered a span of 30 minutes on Sunday, though most of that was
sitting still and taking pictures between moves. The total amount
of time when Spirit was actually moving was about two minutes.

"These are the sorts of baby steps we're taking," said JPL's Dr.
Eddie Tunstel, rover mobility engineer.

"The drive was designed for two purposes, one of which was to get to
the rock," Tunstel said. "From the mobility engineers' standpoint,
this drive was geared to testing out how we do drives on this new
surface." Gathering new information such as how much the wheels
slip in the martian soil will give the team confidence for more
ambitious drives in future weeks and months.

"Adirondack is now about one foot (30 centimeters) in front of the
front wheels," he said.

Scientists chose Adirondack to be Spirit's first target rock rather
than another rock, called Sashimi, that would have been a shorter,
straight-ahead drive. Rocks are time capsules containing evidence of
the environmental conditions of the past, said Dr. Dave Des Marais,
a rover science-team member from NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett
Field, Calif. "We needed to decide which of these time capsules to
open."

Sashimi appears dustier than Adirondack. The dust layer could
obscure good observations of the rock's surface, which may give
information about chemical changes and other weathering from
environmental conditions affecting the rock since its surface was
fresh. Also, Sashimi is more pitted than Adirondack. That makes it a
poorer candidate for the rover's rock abrasion tool, which scrapes
away a rock's surface for a view of the interior evidence about
environmental conditions when the rock first formed. Adirondack has
a "nice, flat surface" well suited to trying out the rover's tools
on their first martian rock, Des Marais said.

"The hypothesis is that this is a volcanic rock, but we'll test that
hypothesis," he said. 

Spirit arrived at Mars Jan. 3 (EST and PST; Jan.
4 Universal Time) after a seven-month journey. In coming weeks and months,
according to plans, it will be exploring for clues in rocks and
soil to decipher whether the past environment in Gusev Crater
was ever watery and possibly suitable to sustain life.

Spirit's twin Mars Exploration Rover, Opportunity, will reach Mars
on Jan. 25 (EST and Universal Time; 9:05 p.m., Jan. 24, PST) to
begin a similar examination of a site on the opposite side of the
planet from Gusev Crater.

JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in
Pasadena, manages the Mars Exploration Rover project for NASA's
Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. Images and additional
information about the project are available from JPL at

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov

from Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., at 

http://athena.cornell.edu/ .
-end-





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The information contained 

Re: [meteorite-list] Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection

[David Freeman]

I happen to own  a wonderously beautiful 3 pound "TRICANTERED" specimen 
of emerald green nephrite (known as a "slick").
Ventifacts are relatively common here in SW Wyoming, and I suspect other 
areas of the western U.S.

Dave F.
snowballs
Dan Wray wrote:

Hello Thomas and group,

 

Adirondack and many other rocks in the rover photos appear to be 
altered by wind erosion. This can leave very sharp faces and are known 
as ventifacts.  Other terms used for this effect are dreikanter also 
windkanter.  Seasonal changes in wind direction can cause two or three 
distinct planes on the rock surface.  They are common in windy desert 
environments.

 

Dan Wray

COMETS 

- Original Message -

From:Thomas Webb 

To: Ron Baalke 

Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 7:35 AM

Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Spirit Drives to a Rock Called
'Adirondack' for Close Inspection
Ron and List,

Does it appear to you that there may have been some shearing on
the right hand side of the rock called 'Adirondack'?
Thomas H. Webb

Ron Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > wrote:


Guy Webster (818) 354-5011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
Donald Savage (202) 358-1547
NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C.
News Release: 2004-024 January 19, 2004

Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection

NASA's Spirit rover has successfully driven to its first target on
Mars, a football-sized rock that scientists have dubbed
Adirondack.
The Mars Exploration Rover flight team at NASA's Jet Propulsion
Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., plans to send commands to Spirit
early
Tuesday to examine Adirondack with a microscope and two
instruments
that reveal the composition of rocks, said JPL's Dr. Mark Adler,
Spirit mission manager. The instruments are the Mössbauer
spectrometer and the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer.
Spirit successfully rolled off the lander and onto the martian
surface last Thursday. To make the drive to Adirondack, the rover
turned 40 degrees in short arcs totaling 95 centimeters (3.1
feet).
It then turned in place to face the target rock and drove four
short
moves straightforward totaling 1.9 meters (6.2 feet). The moves
covered a span of 30 minutes on Sunday, though most of that was
sitting still and taking pictures between moves. The total amount
of time when Spirit was actually moving was about two minutes.
"These are the sorts of baby steps we're taking," said JPL's Dr.
Eddie Tunstel, rover mobility engineer.
"The drive was designed for two purposes, one of which was to
get to
the rock," Tunstel said. "From the mobility engineers' standpoint,
this drive was geared to testing out how we do drives on this new
surface." Gathering new information such as how much the wheels
slip in the martian soil will give the team confidence for more
ambitious drives in future weeks and months.
"Adirondack is now about one foot (30 centimeters) in front of the
front wheels," he said.
Scientists chose Adirondack to be Spirit's first target rock
rather
than another rock, called Sashimi, that would have been a shorter,
straight-ahead drive. Rocks are time capsules containing
evidence of
the environmental conditions of the past, said Dr. Dave Des
Marais,
a rover science-team member from NASA Ames Research Center,
Moffett
Field, Calif. "We needed to decide which of these time capsules to
open."
Sashimi appears dustier than Adirondack. The dust layer could
obscure good observations of the rock's surface, which may give
information about chemical changes and other weathering from
environmental conditions affecting the rock since its surface was
fresh. Also, Sashimi is more pitted than Adirondack. That
makes it a
poorer candidate for the rover's rock abrasion tool, which scrapes
away a rock's surface for a view of the interior evidence about
environmental conditions when the rock first formed.
Adirondack has
a "nice, flat surface" well suited to trying out the rover's tools
on their first martian rock, Des Marais said.
"The hypothesis is that this is a volcanic rock, but we'll
test that
hypothesis," he said.
Spirit arrived at Mars Jan. 3 (EST and PST; Jan.
4 Universal Time) after a seven-month journey. In coming weeks
and months,
according to plans, it will be exploring for clues in rocks and
soil to decipher whe

Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[Jerry A. Wallace]

Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3239 


Kind regards,

*Bernhard “/Rendelius”/ Rems*

Well, Bernhard, I had the same initial reaction to the pictures that 
Dave F. did; it sure
looked like some Sikhote Alin schrapnel.

But aside from that, judging from their eBay ad text description, it 
appears that there
are none of the standard descriptors nor expected phrases present in the 
ad that would
lend credibility to their claim of having found a meteorite, with one 
exception which I
will expand on below.

Some descriptors and/or phrases that should be present in an ad that 
would help ensure
authenticity are:

* ... burned down the barn, the store, the outhouse, etc.

* ... frightened- Mama, the horse, the goat, the pig, etc.

* ... killed the cow, the dog, the mailman, etc.

* ... too hot to touch for three days.

* ... set the field, the woods, Charlie, etc., on fire.

* ... glowed real bright green, red, blue, etc., all night.

* ... melted the shovel, pick, car, cat, etc.

* ... picked that little sucker up out of the bottom of the ten foot
deep crater that it made.
There are, of course, any number of other descriptor/phrases that lend 
virtually
infallible authenticity to what would otherwise be 'questionable 
meteorites'. But
the ones above will give a good start to novices unfamiliar with what to 
look for
in the eBay ads.

The one item in the eBay ad description that had a ring of truth to it 
was the
mention that it was found only twenty minutes after falling.

I can easily imagine the following scenario (you'll have to excuse me 
for not
illustrating this with people from the towns of Palencia and León in 
Spain; I
have to go with what I'm familiar with):


mountains, in the cool of the evening, imbibing their nightly refreshment.
NOTE: Setting not important- same thing can and does happen anywhere in
the world.>

ZEB: "Looky thar, Luke, a shootin' star!"

LUKE: "Yep. Shore nuff, Zeb, 'nother one o' them rascals."

ZEB: "Looks like it landed jes' over that hill yonder. Let's go git that 
sucker."

LUKE: "Alrighty. I'll jes' grab the jug to take along. Nice night fer a 
stroll ennyhow"



ZEB: "Yep. Thar she lies, Luke. Rat thar in the smack dab middle o' the 
trail."

LUKE: "Wal, whatcha wanna do with this one, Zeb?"

ZEB: "Wal, I reckin we can do what we done with all them others, Luke. 
Let's
take 'er back to the shack, take some o' them deegital pichers of it and
git the little sucker listed on eBay as quick as we can."

LUKE: "Sounds like a plan to me, Zeb. Can always use that extree money these
thangs bring in. Need 'nother snort?"
ZEB: "Yup."

[With apologies to Arkansas Steve Arnold and other Southerners likely to 
take offense.]

West Texas Jerry

**



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Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[M come Meteorite Meteorites]

whyis not possible find a iron meteorite in Spain?
Or is type the question italian meteorites, impossible
to find? If this is a Sikhote alin well, for me the
Taza is all sikhote's find in desert see is many many
similar, or Etter for me is a NWA put in USAhard
give a confirm

Matteo

--- "Jerry A. Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems wrote:
> 
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3239
> 
> >
>

> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > *Bernhard “/Rendelius”/ Rems*
> >
> 
> Well, Bernhard, I had the same initial reaction to
> the pictures that 
> Dave F. did; it sure
> looked like some Sikhote Alin schrapnel.
> 
> But aside from that, judging from their eBay ad text
> description, it 
> appears that there
> are none of the standard descriptors nor expected
> phrases present in the 
> ad that would
> lend credibility to their claim of having found a
> meteorite, with one 
> exception which I
> will expand on below.
> 
> Some descriptors and/or phrases that should be
> present in an ad that 
> would help ensure
> authenticity are:
> 
> * ... burned down the barn, the store, the outhouse,
> etc.
> 
> * ... frightened- Mama, the horse, the goat, the
> pig, etc.
> 
> * ... killed the cow, the dog, the mailman, etc.
> 
> * ... too hot to touch for three days.
> 
> * ... set the field, the woods, Charlie, etc., on
> fire.
> 
> * ... glowed real bright green, red, blue, etc., all
> night.
> 
> * ... melted the shovel, pick, car, cat, etc.
> 
> * ... picked that little sucker up out of the bottom
> of the ten foot
> deep crater that it made.
> 
> There are, of course, any number of other
> descriptor/phrases that lend 
> virtually
> infallible authenticity to what would otherwise be
> 'questionable 
> meteorites'. But
> the ones above will give a good start to novices
> unfamiliar with what to 
> look for
> in the eBay ads.
> 
> The one item in the eBay ad description that had a
> ring of truth to it 
> was the
> mention that it was found only twenty minutes after
> falling.
> 
> I can easily imagine the following scenario (you'll
> have to excuse me 
> for not
> illustrating this with people from the towns of
> Palencia and León in 
> Spain; I
> have to go with what I'm familiar with):
> 
>  their shack high in the 
> Ozark
> mountains, in the cool of the evening, imbibing
> their nightly refreshment.
> NOTE: Setting not important- same thing can and does
> happen anywhere in
> the world.>
> 
> ZEB: "Looky thar, Luke, a shootin' star!"
> 
> LUKE: "Yep. Shore nuff, Zeb, 'nother one o' them
> rascals."
> 
> ZEB: "Looks like it landed jes' over that hill
> yonder. Let's go git that 
> sucker."
> 
> LUKE: "Alrighty. I'll jes' grab the jug to take
> along. Nice night fer a 
> stroll ennyhow"
> 
>  later.>
> 
> ZEB: "Yep. Thar she lies, Luke. Rat thar in the
> smack dab middle o' the 
> trail."
> 
> LUKE: "Wal, whatcha wanna do with this one, Zeb?"
> 
> ZEB: "Wal, I reckin we can do what we done with all
> them others, Luke. 
> Let's
> take 'er back to the shack, take some o' them
> deegital pichers of it and
> git the little sucker listed on eBay as quick as we
> can."
> 
> LUKE: "Sounds like a plan to me, Zeb. Can always use
> that extree money these
> thangs bring in. Need 'nother snort?"
> 
> ZEB: "Yup."
> 
> [With apologies to Arkansas Steve Arnold and other
> Southerners likely to 
> take offense.]
> 
> West Texas Jerry
> 
> > **
> >
> 
> 
> 
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


=
M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: 
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/

__
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Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[David Freeman]

Lotta' truth there Jerry,
Here, we been founden' um' down by the sheep pen...tiny round 
ones...carboon ace us onesLots of 'em!
df

Jerry A. Wallace wrote:

Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3239 
 

Kind regards,

*Bernhard “/Rendelius”/ Rems*

Well, Bernhard, I had the same initial reaction to the pictures that 
Dave F. did; it sure
looked like some Sikhote Alin schrapnel.

But aside from that, judging from their eBay ad text description, it 
appears that there
are none of the standard descriptors nor expected phrases present in 
the ad that would
lend credibility to their claim of having found a meteorite, with one 
exception which I
will expand on below.

Some descriptors and/or phrases that should be present in an ad that 
would help ensure
authenticity are:

* ... burned down the barn, the store, the outhouse, etc.

* ... frightened- Mama, the horse, the goat, the pig, etc.

* ... killed the cow, the dog, the mailman, etc.

* ... too hot to touch for three days.

* ... set the field, the woods, Charlie, etc., on fire.

* ... glowed real bright green, red, blue, etc., all night.

* ... melted the shovel, pick, car, cat, etc.

* ... picked that little sucker up out of the bottom of the ten foot
deep crater that it made.
There are, of course, any number of other descriptor/phrases that lend 
virtually
infallible authenticity to what would otherwise be 'questionable 
meteorites'. But
the ones above will give a good start to novices unfamiliar with what 
to look for
in the eBay ads.

The one item in the eBay ad description that had a ring of truth to it 
was the
mention that it was found only twenty minutes after falling.

I can easily imagine the following scenario (you'll have to excuse me 
for not
illustrating this with people from the towns of Palencia and León in 
Spain; I
have to go with what I'm familiar with):


mountains, in the cool of the evening, imbibing their nightly 
refreshment.
NOTE: Setting not important- same thing can and does happen anywhere in
the world.>

ZEB: "Looky thar, Luke, a shootin' star!"

LUKE: "Yep. Shore nuff, Zeb, 'nother one o' them rascals."

ZEB: "Looks like it landed jes' over that hill yonder. Let's go git 
that sucker."

LUKE: "Alrighty. I'll jes' grab the jug to take along. Nice night fer 
a stroll ennyhow"



ZEB: "Yep. Thar she lies, Luke. Rat thar in the smack dab middle o' 
the trail."

LUKE: "Wal, whatcha wanna do with this one, Zeb?"

ZEB: "Wal, I reckin we can do what we done with all them others, Luke. 
Let's
take 'er back to the shack, take some o' them deegital pichers of it and
git the little sucker listed on eBay as quick as we can."

LUKE: "Sounds like a plan to me, Zeb. Can always use that extree money 
these
thangs bring in. Need 'nother snort?"

ZEB: "Yup."

[With apologies to Arkansas Steve Arnold and other Southerners likely 
to take offense.]

West Texas Jerry

**



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[meteorite-list] Rosetta Mission In Rocket Concern

[Ron Baalke]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3414509.stm

Comet mission in rocket concern
By Helen Briggs 
BBC News 
January 20, 2004

A shadow hangs over the rocket that will blast next month's flagship
European comet mission into space. 

British scientist André Balogh has told the BBC he fears the Rosetta 
probe could miss its flight due to technical problems on the launch vehicle. 

But the European Space Agency says the rocket's faults are not major and 
can be sorted out before the launch date. 

The £600m Rosetta mission aims to put a lander on Comet 
Churyumov-Gerasimenko to study primordial ices and gases. 

Year's delay

Rosetta is currently scheduled to leave Europe's Kourou spaceport, in 
French Guiana, on 26 February, atop an Ariane 5 G+ rocket. 

The probe should have launched a year ago but was grounded after another 
Ariane 5 vehicle exploded four minutes into a flight from Kourou. 

The delay that resulted from the accident investigation led to Rosetta's 
original quarry, Comet Wirtanen, being abandoned and the mission re-designed. 

Scientists have now selected a new target comet - a ball of ice, rock and 
dust that has the full name of 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko. 

But they are worried that technical issues related to Rosetta's new launch
vehicle, raised in reviews of its flight readiness, may delay the mission yet 
again. 

André Balogh, professor of space physics at Imperial College London, UK, 
has an instrument on Rosetta. 

Booster issue 

"If Rosetta misses this launch window, for whatever reason, it will be very 
difficult to find another target comet for it using Ariane," he told BBC 
News Online. 

"Therefore people have suggested turning to the Russians and using a Proton
launcher. However, that would mean extra expense and very significant expense
but it would be the only possible future for a successful launch of Rosetta to 
a comet." 

The final decision on whether to launch will be made by the European Space
Agency (Esa) in consultation with the rocket's operators, Arianespace. 

Professor David Southwood, head of science at Esa, said two "open technical
items" relating to "the mechanical behaviour of the system as it takes off 
and the mechanical structure of the boosters" had yet to be resolved but they 
were not a particular cause for concern. 

"I have no indication that they won't be resolved," he said. "I will be 
astonished if we don't go ahead." 

Arianespace confirmed on Tuesday that the launch campaign was continuing in
Kourou. 

'Cornerstone' science 

"Today, the launch vehicle is undergoing its preparation in Kourou and we are 
all getting ready to launch Rosetta on 26 February," said a spokesperson. 

If all goes to plan, Rosetta will reach the comet in 2014 and drop a small 
lander, the size of a washing machine, on to the comet's surface. 

The lander will send close-up pictures of the comet's nucleus back to Earth, 
and drill into the heart of the "dirty snowball" to sample its primordial 
ices and gases. 

"It's a cornerstone not just of our [scientific] programme but I think also 
of the scientific approach to understanding the Solar System," said 
Professor Southwood.

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Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[M come Meteorite Meteorites]

The same I task of meteorites found in America, for me
is all imported from the desert and strangely found in
USA deserts, and strangely I am not the only one to
think them but also persons of some laboratories
that strange eh? However I will report several to the
European dealers - all serious ones to 100% at the
moment, while for the moment the only problems that I
have had have been alone with
Americans - about what some personages think about
they.


Matteo


--- David Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Half the meteorites I see posted from European
> amatures are fraudulent. 
> I SUSPECT ALL with low credentials. Even here in the
> United States. 
> Unless they are found by Marines... ;-)
> Dave Freeman
> 
> M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
> 
> >whyis not possible find a iron meteorite in
> Spain?
> >Or is type the question italian meteorites,
> impossible
> >to find? If this is a Sikhote alin well, for me the
> >Taza is all sikhote's find in desert see is many
> many
> >similar, or Etter for me is a NWA put in
> USAhard
> >give a confirm
> >
> >Matteo
> >
> >--- "Jerry A. Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems wrote:
> >>
>
>http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3239
> >
>
>
> >
> >>>Kind regards,
> >>>
> >>>*Bernhard "/Rendelius"/ Rems*
> >>>
> >>Well, Bernhard, I had the same initial reaction to
> >>the pictures that 
> >>Dave F. did; it sure
> >>looked like some Sikhote Alin schrapnel.
> >>
> >>But aside from that, judging from their eBay ad
> text
> >>description, it 
> >>appears that there
> >>are none of the standard descriptors nor expected
> >>phrases present in the 
> >>ad that would
> >>lend credibility to their claim of having found a
> >>meteorite, with one 
> >>exception which I
> >>will expand on below.
> >>
> >>Some descriptors and/or phrases that should be
> >>present in an ad that 
> >>would help ensure
> >>authenticity are:
> >>
> >>* ... burned down the barn, the store, the
> outhouse,
> >>etc.
> >>
> >>* ... frightened- Mama, the horse, the goat, the
> >>pig, etc.
> >>
> >>* ... killed the cow, the dog, the mailman, etc.
> >>
> >>* ... too hot to touch for three days.
> >>
> >>* ... set the field, the woods, Charlie, etc., on
> >>fire.
> >>
> >>* ... glowed real bright green, red, blue, etc.,
> all
> >>night.
> >>
> >>* ... melted the shovel, pick, car, cat, etc.
> >>
> >>* ... picked that little sucker up out of the
> bottom
> >>of the ten foot
> >>deep crater that it made.
> >>
> >>There are, of course, any number of other
> >>descriptor/phrases that lend 
> >>virtually
> >>infallible authenticity to what would otherwise be
> >>'questionable 
> >>meteorites'. But
> >>the ones above will give a good start to novices
> >>unfamiliar with what to 
> >>look for
> >>in the eBay ads.
> >>
> >>The one item in the eBay ad description that had a
> >>ring of truth to it 
> >>was the
> >>mention that it was found only twenty minutes
> after
> >>falling.
> >>
> >>I can easily imagine the following scenario
> (you'll
> >>have to excuse me 
> >>for not
> >>illustrating this with people from the towns of
> >>Palencia and León in 
> >>Spain; I
> >>have to go with what I'm familiar with):
> >>
> >> >>their shack high in the 
> >>Ozark
> >>mountains, in the cool of the evening, imbibing
> >>their nightly refreshment.
> >>NOTE: Setting not important- same thing can and
> does
> >>happen anywhere in
> >>the world.>
> >>
> >>ZEB: "Looky thar, Luke, a shootin' star!"
> >>
> >>LUKE: "Yep. Shore nuff, Zeb, 'nother one o' them
> >>rascals."
> >>
> >>ZEB: "Looks like it landed jes' over that hill
> >>yonder. Let's go git that 
> >>sucker."
> >>
> >>LUKE: "Alrighty. I'll jes' grab the jug to take
> >>along. Nice night fer a 
> >>stroll ennyhow"
> >>
> >> >>later.>
> >>
> >>ZEB: "Yep. Thar she lies, Luke. Rat thar in the
> >>smack dab middle o' the 
> >>trail."
> >>
> >>LUKE: "Wal, whatcha wanna do with this one, Zeb?"
> >>
> >>ZEB: "Wal, I reckin we can do what we done with
> all
> >>them others, Luke. 
> >>Let's
> >>take 'er back to the shack, take some o' them
> >>deegital pichers of it and
> >>git the little sucker listed on eBay as quick as
> we
> >>can."
> >>
> >>LUKE: "Sounds like a plan to me, Zeb. Can always
> use
> >>that extree money these
> >>thangs bring in. Need 'nother snort?"
> >>
> >>ZEB: "Yup."
> >>
> >>[With apologies to Arkansas Steve Arnold and other
> >>Southerners likely to 
> >>take offense.]
> >>
> >>West Texas Jerry
> >>
> >>>**
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>__
> >>Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
>
>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> >
> >=
> >M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
> >Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA,
> ITALY
> >Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection
> Site: http://www.

RE: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[Bernhard \"Rendelius\" Rems]

What is he trying to tell us? All I can read in his last two posts is
some unprovoked bashing of americans, calling them cheaters and liars?

Matteo, just for the records: I asked this question about the spanish
meteorite-"find" just because I wanted some opinions. Excuse me, but
your reactions are sick and sicken me.

BTW - I asked the seller for the promised picture of the certificate. No
reaction so far after 12 hours.

Bernhard

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M come
Meteorite Meteorites
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:03 PM
To: David Freeman; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?


The same I task of meteorites found in America, for me
is all imported from the desert and strangely found in
USA deserts, and strangely I am not the only one to
think them but also persons of some laboratories
that strange eh? However I will report several to the
European dealers - all serious ones to 100% at the
moment, while for the moment the only problems that I
have had have been alone with
Americans - about what some personages think about
they.


Matteo


--- David Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Half the meteorites I see posted from European
> amatures are fraudulent.
> I SUSPECT ALL with low credentials. Even here in the
> United States. 
> Unless they are found by Marines... ;-)
> Dave Freeman
> 
> M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
> 
> >whyis not possible find a iron meteorite in
> Spain?
> >Or is type the question italian meteorites,
> impossible
> >to find? If this is a Sikhote alin well, for me the
> >Taza is all sikhote's find in desert see is many
> many
> >similar, or Etter for me is a NWA put in
> USAhard
> >give a confirm
> >
> >Matteo
> >
> >--- "Jerry A. Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems wrote:
> >>
>
>http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3
>239
> >
>
>3239>
> >
> >>>Kind regards,
> >>>
> >>>*Bernhard "/Rendelius"/ Rems*
> >>>
> >>Well, Bernhard, I had the same initial reaction to
> >>the pictures that
> >>Dave F. did; it sure
> >>looked like some Sikhote Alin schrapnel.
> >>
> >>But aside from that, judging from their eBay ad
> text
> >>description, it
> >>appears that there
> >>are none of the standard descriptors nor expected
> >>phrases present in the 
> >>ad that would
> >>lend credibility to their claim of having found a
> >>meteorite, with one 
> >>exception which I
> >>will expand on below.
> >>
> >>Some descriptors and/or phrases that should be
> >>present in an ad that
> >>would help ensure
> >>authenticity are:
> >>
> >>* ... burned down the barn, the store, the
> outhouse,
> >>etc.
> >>
> >>* ... frightened- Mama, the horse, the goat, the
> >>pig, etc.
> >>
> >>* ... killed the cow, the dog, the mailman, etc.
> >>
> >>* ... too hot to touch for three days.
> >>
> >>* ... set the field, the woods, Charlie, etc., on
> >>fire.
> >>
> >>* ... glowed real bright green, red, blue, etc.,
> all
> >>night.
> >>
> >>* ... melted the shovel, pick, car, cat, etc.
> >>
> >>* ... picked that little sucker up out of the
> bottom
> >>of the ten foot
> >>deep crater that it made.
> >>
> >>There are, of course, any number of other descriptor/phrases that 
> >>lend virtually
> >>infallible authenticity to what would otherwise be
> >>'questionable 
> >>meteorites'. But
> >>the ones above will give a good start to novices
> >>unfamiliar with what to 
> >>look for
> >>in the eBay ads.
> >>
> >>The one item in the eBay ad description that had a
> >>ring of truth to it
> >>was the
> >>mention that it was found only twenty minutes
> after
> >>falling.
> >>
> >>I can easily imagine the following scenario
> (you'll
> >>have to excuse me
> >>for not
> >>illustrating this with people from the towns of
> >>Palencia and León in 
> >>Spain; I
> >>have to go with what I'm familiar with):
> >>
> >> >>their shack high in the
> >>Ozark
> >>mountains, in the cool of the evening, imbibing
> >>their nightly refreshment.
> >>NOTE: Setting not important- same thing can and
> does
> >>happen anywhere in
> >>the world.>
> >>
> >>ZEB: "Looky thar, Luke, a shootin' star!"
> >>
> >>LUKE: "Yep. Shore nuff, Zeb, 'nother one o' them
> >>rascals."
> >>
> >>ZEB: "Looks like it landed jes' over that hill
> >>yonder. Let's go git that
> >>sucker."
> >>
> >>LUKE: "Alrighty. I'll jes' grab the jug to take
> >>along. Nice night fer a
> >>stroll ennyhow"
> >>
> >> >>later.>
> >>
> >>ZEB: "Yep. Thar she lies, Luke. Rat thar in the
> >>smack dab middle o' the
> >>trail."
> >>
> >>LUKE: "Wal, whatcha wanna do with this one, Zeb?"
> >>
> >>ZEB: "Wal, I reckin we can do what we done with
> all
> >>them others, Luke.
> >>Let's
> >>take 'er back to the shack, take some o' them
> >>deegital pichers of it and
> >>git the little sucker listed on eBay as quick as
> we
> >>can."
> >>
> >>LUKE: "Sounds 

RE: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[M come Meteorite Meteorites]

My reaction is give for the fault of Mr.Freeman, if
Mr.Freeman not say a similar idiocy my reaction not
exit, your answer give to Mr.Freeman not to me

Matteo

--- "Bernhard \"Rendelius\" Rems"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What is he trying to tell us? All I can read in his
> last two posts is
> some unprovoked bashing of americans, calling them
> cheaters and liars?
> 
> Matteo, just for the records: I asked this question
> about the spanish
> meteorite-"find" just because I wanted some
> opinions. Excuse me, but
> your reactions are sick and sicken me.
> 
> BTW - I asked the seller for the promised picture of
> the certificate. No
> reaction so far after 12 hours.
> 
> Bernhard
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of M come
> Meteorite Meteorites
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:03 PM
> To: David Freeman;
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of
> that?
> 
> 
> The same I task of meteorites found in America, for
> me
> is all imported from the desert and strangely found
> in
> USA deserts, and strangely I am not the only one to
> think them but also persons of some laboratories
> that strange eh? However I will report several to
> the
> European dealers - all serious ones to 100% at the
> moment, while for the moment the only problems that
> I
> have had have been alone with
> Americans - about what some personages think about
> they.
> 
> 
> Matteo
> 
> 
> --- David Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Half the meteorites I see posted from European
> > amatures are fraudulent.
> > I SUSPECT ALL with low credentials. Even here in
> the
> > United States. 
> > Unless they are found by Marines... ;-)
> > Dave Freeman
> > 
> > M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
> > 
> > >whyis not possible find a iron meteorite in
> > Spain?
> > >Or is type the question italian meteorites,
> > impossible
> > >to find? If this is a Sikhote alin well, for me
> the
> > >Taza is all sikhote's find in desert see is many
> > many
> > >similar, or Etter for me is a NWA put in
> > USAhard
> > >give a confirm
> > >
> > >Matteo
> > >
> > >--- "Jerry A. Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems wrote:
> > >>
> >
>
>http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3
> >239
> > >
> >
>
> >3239>
> > >
> > >>>Kind regards,
> > >>>
> > >>>*Bernhard "/Rendelius"/ Rems*
> > >>>
> > >>Well, Bernhard, I had the same initial reaction
> to
> > >>the pictures that
> > >>Dave F. did; it sure
> > >>looked like some Sikhote Alin schrapnel.
> > >>
> > >>But aside from that, judging from their eBay ad
> > text
> > >>description, it
> > >>appears that there
> > >>are none of the standard descriptors nor
> expected
> > >>phrases present in the 
> > >>ad that would
> > >>lend credibility to their claim of having found
> a
> > >>meteorite, with one 
> > >>exception which I
> > >>will expand on below.
> > >>
> > >>Some descriptors and/or phrases that should be
> > >>present in an ad that
> > >>would help ensure
> > >>authenticity are:
> > >>
> > >>* ... burned down the barn, the store, the
> > outhouse,
> > >>etc.
> > >>
> > >>* ... frightened- Mama, the horse, the goat, the
> > >>pig, etc.
> > >>
> > >>* ... killed the cow, the dog, the mailman, etc.
> > >>
> > >>* ... too hot to touch for three days.
> > >>
> > >>* ... set the field, the woods, Charlie, etc.,
> on
> > >>fire.
> > >>
> > >>* ... glowed real bright green, red, blue, etc.,
> > all
> > >>night.
> > >>
> > >>* ... melted the shovel, pick, car, cat, etc.
> > >>
> > >>* ... picked that little sucker up out of the
> > bottom
> > >>of the ten foot
> > >>deep crater that it made.
> > >>
> > >>There are, of course, any number of other
> descriptor/phrases that 
> > >>lend virtually
> > >>infallible authenticity to what would otherwise
> be
> > >>'questionable 
> > >>meteorites'. But
> > >>the ones above will give a good start to novices
> > >>unfamiliar with what to 
> > >>look for
> > >>in the eBay ads.
> > >>
> > >>The one item in the eBay ad description that had
> a
> > >>ring of truth to it
> > >>was the
> > >>mention that it was found only twenty minutes
> > after
> > >>falling.
> > >>
> > >>I can easily imagine the following scenario
> > (you'll
> > >>have to excuse me
> > >>for not
> > >>illustrating this with people from the towns of
> > >>Palencia and León in 
> > >>Spain; I
> > >>have to go with what I'm familiar with):
> > >>
> > >> > >>their shack high in the
> > >>Ozark
> > >>mountains, in the cool of the evening, imbibing
> > >>their nightly refreshment.
> > >>NOTE: Setting not important- same thing can and
> > does
> > >>happen anywhere in
> > >>the world.>
> > >>
> > >>ZEB: "Looky thar, Luke, a shootin' star!"
> > >>
> > >>LUKE: "Yep. Shore nuff, Zeb, 'nother one o' them
> > >>rascals."
> > >>
> > >>ZEB: "Looks like it landed jes' over that hill

[meteorite-list] Next Attempts To Contact Beagle 2 Planned For 24th and 25th January

[Ron Baalke]

http://www.beagle2.com/news/index.htm

Next attempts to contact Beagle 2 planned for 24th and 25th January
January 20, 2004

Summary

The Beagle 2 team has revised its plans for trying to communicate with the
lander, postponing the date for the end of radio silence by two days.

Full story

The Team has made the following announcement regarding the strategy for
communication with Beagle 2 over the next 5 days:

"On 12 January we started a period when no attempts were made to contact
Beagle 2. Maintaining radio silence for a period of ten days is intended to
force Beagle 2 into a communication mode that should ensure that the
transmitter is switched on for the majority of the daytime on Mars and thus
will improve the chance of Mars Express making contact.

"During this ten-day period, Mars Express has listened for Beagle 2 but only
for very short periods when Beagle 2 may not be switched on.

"The ten-day radio silence period ends on 22 January, just before a fly-over
by Mars Express, but the strategy of the team is not to hail the lander
immediately. Rather we are erring on the side of caution as we cannot
confidently predict the precise ending of the ten-day slot. This is because
the absolute accuracy of the timer on Beagle 2 could have been affected by
the temperature on Mars, making the clock run slightly faster or slower than
predicted. We have therefore chosen a pair of opportunities when Mars
Express flies over the Beagle 2 landing site, the nights of 24 and 25
January. These two flights cover the widest possible area where Beagle 2
should be, giving us the best chance of calling the lander and getting a
response from the continuous transmission. There are several other chances
of just listening for Beagle 2 without calling it.

"The data will be analysed, this can take many hours, and we intend to
present a complete picture of this series of attempts to contact the lander
on 26 January, early afternoon. We will, at that time, outline any future
communications strategy."

The results from future communication attempts will be posted on the Beagle
2 and PPARC websites.

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[meteorite-list] Last Two Weeks To Make A 'Deep Impact' On A Comet

[Ron Baalke]

Donald Savage
Headquarters, Washington January 20, 2004
(Phone: 202/358-1727)

DC Agle
Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, Calif.
(Phone: 818/393-9011)

Lee Tune
University of Maryland, College Park, Md.
(Phone: 301/405-4679)

RELEASE: 04-028

LAST TWO WEEKS TO MAKE A "DEEP IMPACT" ON A COMET

 T-minus two weeks and counting till NASA closes their 
passenger list for a one-way trip to comet Tempel 1. On January 
31 NASA's Deep Impact mission will end its campaign to launch 
the names of space enthusiasts who want to make a deep impact 
on a comet.

On July 4, 2005, the Deep Impact spacecraft will impact a 
copper projectile about the size of a garbage can into the 
surface of a frozen ball of ice and rock, comet Temple 1, 
creating a crater about the size of a football stadium. A CD 
containing the names of those who signed on board for this one-
way trip to a celestial snowball will be literally obliterated 
along with the 370-kilogram (816 pound) copper-tipped impactor.

When the impactor reaches out and touches Temple 1 at about 
37,000 kilometers (22,990 miles) per hour, Deep Impact's flyby 
spacecraft will collect pictures and data. The flyby spacecraft 
will send its data back to Earth in near real time through the 
antennas of the Deep Space Network. Simultaneously, 
professional and amateur astronomers on Earth will observe the 
ejecta flying from the comet's newly formed crater adding to 
the data and images collected by the Deep Impact spacecraft and 
other space telescopes.

"This is an opportunity to become part of an extraordinary 
space mission," said Dr. Don Yeomans, an astronomer at JPL and 
a member of the Deep Impact science team. "When the craft is 
launched in December 2004, yours and the names of your loved-
ones can hitch along for the ride and be part of what may be 
the best space fireworks show in history."

Deep Impact is the first deep-space mission that will really 
reach out and touch a comet. Mission scientists are confident 
such an intimate glimpse beneath the surface of a comet, where 
material and debris from the formation of the solar system 
remain relatively unchanged, will answer basic questions about 
the formation of the solar system as well as getting a better 
look at the nature and composition of these celestial 
wanderers.

"This campaign will allow people from around the world to 
become directly involved with the Deep Impact mission and 
through that, get them thinking about the scientific reasons 
for the mission," said University of Maryland astronomy 
professor, Dr. Michael A'Hearn, Deep Impact's principal 
investigator. "We particularly hope to capture the interest of 
young students, as they will become the explorers of the next 
generation."

People may submit their names for this historic one-way mission 
by visiting NASA's Deep Impact Web site through January 31 at:

http://deepimpact.jpl.nasa.gov/

The University of Maryland in College Park is home to A'Hearn, 
who oversees the scientific investigations. Project manager, 
Rick Grammier, from JPL, manages and operates the Deep Impact 
mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington. JPL is 
managed for NASA by the California Institute of Technology in 
Pasadena. Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corporation in Boulder, 
Colo. manages the spacecraft development.

Deep Impact was selected in 1999 as a NASA Discovery mission. 
The goal of the Discovery Program is to launch smaller, low 
cost capped missions studying new science questions. The main 
objective is to enhance understanding of the solar system by 
exploring the planets, their moons, and small bodies, such as 
comets and asteroids.

Information about the Deep Impact mission is available on the 
Internet at:

http://deepimpact.jpl.nasa.gov/

or

http://deepimpact.umd.edu


-end-



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Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[Michael Farmer]

Wow, I am speechless.
You go Matteo. Long live Italy.

- Original Message - 
From: "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "David Freeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?


> The same I task of meteorites found in America, for me
> is all imported from the desert and strangely found in
> USA deserts, and strangely I am not the only one to
> think them but also persons of some laboratories
> that strange eh? However I will report several to the
> European dealers - all serious ones to 100% at the
> moment, while for the moment the only problems that I
> have had have been alone with
> Americans - about what some personages think about
> they.
>
>
> Matteo
>
>
> --- David Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Half the meteorites I see posted from European
> > amatures are fraudulent.
> > I SUSPECT ALL with low credentials. Even here in the
> > United States.
> > Unless they are found by Marines... ;-)
> > Dave Freeman
> >
> > M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
> >
> > >whyis not possible find a iron meteorite in
> > Spain?
> > >Or is type the question italian meteorites,
> > impossible
> > >to find? If this is a Sikhote alin well, for me the
> > >Taza is all sikhote's find in desert see is many
> > many
> > >similar, or Etter for me is a NWA put in
> > USAhard
> > >give a confirm
> > >
> > >Matteo
> > >
> > >--- "Jerry A. Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems wrote:
> > >>
> >
>
>http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3239
> > >
> >
>
>
> > >
> > >>>Kind regards,
> > >>>
> > >>>*Bernhard "/Rendelius"/ Rems*
> > >>>
> > >>Well, Bernhard, I had the same initial reaction to
> > >>the pictures that
> > >>Dave F. did; it sure
> > >>looked like some Sikhote Alin schrapnel.
> > >>
> > >>But aside from that, judging from their eBay ad
> > text
> > >>description, it
> > >>appears that there
> > >>are none of the standard descriptors nor expected
> > >>phrases present in the
> > >>ad that would
> > >>lend credibility to their claim of having found a
> > >>meteorite, with one
> > >>exception which I
> > >>will expand on below.
> > >>
> > >>Some descriptors and/or phrases that should be
> > >>present in an ad that
> > >>would help ensure
> > >>authenticity are:
> > >>
> > >>* ... burned down the barn, the store, the
> > outhouse,
> > >>etc.
> > >>
> > >>* ... frightened- Mama, the horse, the goat, the
> > >>pig, etc.
> > >>
> > >>* ... killed the cow, the dog, the mailman, etc.
> > >>
> > >>* ... too hot to touch for three days.
> > >>
> > >>* ... set the field, the woods, Charlie, etc., on
> > >>fire.
> > >>
> > >>* ... glowed real bright green, red, blue, etc.,
> > all
> > >>night.
> > >>
> > >>* ... melted the shovel, pick, car, cat, etc.
> > >>
> > >>* ... picked that little sucker up out of the
> > bottom
> > >>of the ten foot
> > >>deep crater that it made.
> > >>
> > >>There are, of course, any number of other
> > >>descriptor/phrases that lend
> > >>virtually
> > >>infallible authenticity to what would otherwise be
> > >>'questionable
> > >>meteorites'. But
> > >>the ones above will give a good start to novices
> > >>unfamiliar with what to
> > >>look for
> > >>in the eBay ads.
> > >>
> > >>The one item in the eBay ad description that had a
> > >>ring of truth to it
> > >>was the
> > >>mention that it was found only twenty minutes
> > after
> > >>falling.
> > >>
> > >>I can easily imagine the following scenario
> > (you'll
> > >>have to excuse me
> > >>for not
> > >>illustrating this with people from the towns of
> > >>Palencia and León in
> > >>Spain; I
> > >>have to go with what I'm familiar with):
> > >>
> > >> > >>their shack high in the
> > >>Ozark
> > >>mountains, in the cool of the evening, imbibing
> > >>their nightly refreshment.
> > >>NOTE: Setting not important- same thing can and
> > does
> > >>happen anywhere in
> > >>the world.>
> > >>
> > >>ZEB: "Looky thar, Luke, a shootin' star!"
> > >>
> > >>LUKE: "Yep. Shore nuff, Zeb, 'nother one o' them
> > >>rascals."
> > >>
> > >>ZEB: "Looks like it landed jes' over that hill
> > >>yonder. Let's go git that
> > >>sucker."
> > >>
> > >>LUKE: "Alrighty. I'll jes' grab the jug to take
> > >>along. Nice night fer a
> > >>stroll ennyhow"
> > >>
> > >> > >>later.>
> > >>
> > >>ZEB: "Yep. Thar she lies, Luke. Rat thar in the
> > >>smack dab middle o' the
> > >>trail."
> > >>
> > >>LUKE: "Wal, whatcha wanna do with this one, Zeb?"
> > >>
> > >>ZEB: "Wal, I reckin we can do what we done with
> > all
> > >>them others, Luke.
> > >>Let's
> > >>take 'er back to the shack, take some o' them
> > >>deegital pichers of it and
> > >>git the little sucker listed on eBay as quick as
> > we
> > >>can."
> > >>
> > >>LUKE: "Sounds like a plan to me, Zeb. Can always
> > use
> > >>that extree mon

[meteorite-list] European Labs and IMCA vital signs

[MARSROX]

Dear List-members - 

1.Are there any labs, museums or Universities in Europe presently examining alleged 
meteorites simply for authenticity, NOT classification, and subsequently returning the 
true-or-false specimen without a charge for the service?

2. The website for the IMCA (International Meteorite Collectors Assoc.) is apparently 
down. Is this group still functioning as an organization? If so, do they have 
meetings, by-laws and elected (or appointed) Board members? 

Danke, yak shimosh, merci y gracias,

Kevin Kichinka

 

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RE: [meteorite-list] European Labs and IMCA vital signs

[Bernhard \"Rendelius\" Rems]

If the IMCA needs a new host, I will happily offer them webspace on my
box.

Bernhard

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:24 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] European Labs and IMCA vital signs


Dear List-members - 

1.Are there any labs, museums or Universities in Europe presently
examining alleged meteorites simply for authenticity, NOT
classification, and subsequently returning the true-or-false specimen
without a charge for the service?

2. The website for the IMCA (International Meteorite Collectors Assoc.)
is apparently down. Is this group still functioning as an organization?
If so, do they have meetings, by-laws and elected (or appointed) Board
members? 

Danke, yak shimosh, merci y gracias,

Kevin Kichinka

 

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Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[Michael Farmer]

the problem I have with you is that you stole some Fredericksburg meteorite
from me, you bought it, never paid it off, and claim that since it rusted,
you need not pay.
That makes you a thief.
the European dealers should be proud of Matteo and his rants.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "David Freeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?


> The same I task of meteorites found in America, for me
> is all imported from the desert and strangely found in
> USA deserts, and strangely I am not the only one to
> think them but also persons of some laboratories
> that strange eh? However I will report several to the
> European dealers - all serious ones to 100% at the
> moment, while for the moment the only problems that I
> have had have been alone with
> Americans - about what some personages think about
> they.
>
>
> Matteo
>
>
> --- David Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Half the meteorites I see posted from European
> > amatures are fraudulent.
> > I SUSPECT ALL with low credentials. Even here in the
> > United States.
> > Unless they are found by Marines... ;-)
> > Dave Freeman
> >
> > M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
> >
> > >whyis not possible find a iron meteorite in
> > Spain?
> > >Or is type the question italian meteorites,
> > impossible
> > >to find? If this is a Sikhote alin well, for me the
> > >Taza is all sikhote's find in desert see is many
> > many
> > >similar, or Etter for me is a NWA put in
> > USAhard
> > >give a confirm
> > >
> > >Matteo
> > >
> > >--- "Jerry A. Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems wrote:
> > >>
> >
>
>http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3239
> > >
> >
>
>
> > >
> > >>>Kind regards,
> > >>>
> > >>>*Bernhard "/Rendelius"/ Rems*
> > >>>
> > >>Well, Bernhard, I had the same initial reaction to
> > >>the pictures that
> > >>Dave F. did; it sure
> > >>looked like some Sikhote Alin schrapnel.
> > >>
> > >>But aside from that, judging from their eBay ad
> > text
> > >>description, it
> > >>appears that there
> > >>are none of the standard descriptors nor expected
> > >>phrases present in the
> > >>ad that would
> > >>lend credibility to their claim of having found a
> > >>meteorite, with one
> > >>exception which I
> > >>will expand on below.
> > >>
> > >>Some descriptors and/or phrases that should be
> > >>present in an ad that
> > >>would help ensure
> > >>authenticity are:
> > >>
> > >>* ... burned down the barn, the store, the
> > outhouse,
> > >>etc.
> > >>
> > >>* ... frightened- Mama, the horse, the goat, the
> > >>pig, etc.
> > >>
> > >>* ... killed the cow, the dog, the mailman, etc.
> > >>
> > >>* ... too hot to touch for three days.
> > >>
> > >>* ... set the field, the woods, Charlie, etc., on
> > >>fire.
> > >>
> > >>* ... glowed real bright green, red, blue, etc.,
> > all
> > >>night.
> > >>
> > >>* ... melted the shovel, pick, car, cat, etc.
> > >>
> > >>* ... picked that little sucker up out of the
> > bottom
> > >>of the ten foot
> > >>deep crater that it made.
> > >>
> > >>There are, of course, any number of other
> > >>descriptor/phrases that lend
> > >>virtually
> > >>infallible authenticity to what would otherwise be
> > >>'questionable
> > >>meteorites'. But
> > >>the ones above will give a good start to novices
> > >>unfamiliar with what to
> > >>look for
> > >>in the eBay ads.
> > >>
> > >>The one item in the eBay ad description that had a
> > >>ring of truth to it
> > >>was the
> > >>mention that it was found only twenty minutes
> > after
> > >>falling.
> > >>
> > >>I can easily imagine the following scenario
> > (you'll
> > >>have to excuse me
> > >>for not
> > >>illustrating this with people from the towns of
> > >>Palencia and León in
> > >>Spain; I
> > >>have to go with what I'm familiar with):
> > >>
> > >> > >>their shack high in the
> > >>Ozark
> > >>mountains, in the cool of the evening, imbibing
> > >>their nightly refreshment.
> > >>NOTE: Setting not important- same thing can and
> > does
> > >>happen anywhere in
> > >>the world.>
> > >>
> > >>ZEB: "Looky thar, Luke, a shootin' star!"
> > >>
> > >>LUKE: "Yep. Shore nuff, Zeb, 'nother one o' them
> > >>rascals."
> > >>
> > >>ZEB: "Looks like it landed jes' over that hill
> > >>yonder. Let's go git that
> > >>sucker."
> > >>
> > >>LUKE: "Alrighty. I'll jes' grab the jug to take
> > >>along. Nice night fer a
> > >>stroll ennyhow"
> > >>
> > >> > >>later.>
> > >>
> > >>ZEB: "Yep. Thar she lies, Luke. Rat thar in the
> > >>smack dab middle o' the
> > >>trail."
> > >>
> > >>LUKE: "Wal, whatcha wanna do with this one, Zeb?"
> > >>
> > >>ZEB: "Wal, I reckin we can do what we done with
> > all
> > >>them others, Luke.
> > >>Let's
> > >>take 'er back to the shack, take

Re: [meteorite-list] What do I think of that idiot?

[j . divelbiss]

Matteo,

This is my first and last comment to you Matteo. Feel free to delete this if 
you like. Otherwise read on...

Your statement about Americans using desert (NWA?) meteorites for "seeding" 
the deserts in the southwest USA (for gaining meteorite collecting glory I 
assume) is the dumbest thing you have said yet. What is with you...have you 
been seeing a doctor for this mental condition of yours? Are you that 
paranoid of us big bad Americans to think we have to have our own desert 
finds to justify our existence as meteorite aficionados? Maybe you are 
right...I think the totals right now are 33 named meteorites from Italy and 
about 600 from the USA. 
 
On the other hand, do you think people like Rob Matson and Bob Verish are 
some kind of frauds, or are you trying to incriminate someone else in 
particular??? Your way of thinking just blows me away. What's next...Nininger 
got all his meteorites from ACME Supply in Casablanca? 

Give us all a break and go away...for good...PLEASE!

John...who could give a crap where you are from...whether it be from Italy or 
Timbuktu. 

> the problem I have with you is that you stole some Fredericksburg meteorite
> from me, you bought it, never paid it off, and claim that since it rusted,
> you need not pay.
> That makes you a thief.
> the European dealers should be proud of Matteo and his rants.
> Mike Farmer
> - Original Message - 
> From: "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "David Freeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?
> 
> 
> > The same I task of meteorites found in America, for me
> > is all imported from the desert and strangely found in
> > USA deserts, and strangely I am not the only one to
> > think them but also persons of some laboratories
> > that strange eh? However I will report several to the
> > European dealers - all serious ones to 100% at the
> > moment, while for the moment the only problems that I
> > have had have been alone with
> > Americans - about what some personages think about
> > they.
> >
> >
> > Matteo
> >
> >
> > --- David Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Half the meteorites I see posted from European
> > > amatures are fraudulent.
> > > I SUSPECT ALL with low credentials. Even here in the
> > > United States.
> > > Unless they are found by Marines... ;-)
> > > Dave Freeman
> > >
> > > M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
> > >
> > > >whyis not possible find a iron meteorite in
> > > Spain?
> > > >Or is type the question italian meteorites,
> > > impossible
> > > >to find? If this is a Sikhote alin well, for me the
> > > >Taza is all sikhote's find in desert see is many
> > > many
> > > >similar, or Etter for me is a NWA put in
> > > USAhard
> > > >give a confirm
> > > >
> > > >Matteo
> > > >
> > > >--- "Jerry A. Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems wrote:
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3239
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >>>Kind regards,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>*Bernhard "/Rendelius"/ Rems*
> > > >>>
> > > >>Well, Bernhard, I had the same initial reaction to
> > > >>the pictures that
> > > >>Dave F. did; it sure
> > > >>looked like some Sikhote Alin schrapnel.
> > > >>
> > > >>But aside from that, judging from their eBay ad
> > > text
> > > >>description, it
> > > >>appears that there
> > > >>are none of the standard descriptors nor expected
> > > >>phrases present in the
> > > >>ad that would
> > > >>lend credibility to their claim of having found a
> > > >>meteorite, with one
> > > >>exception which I
> > > >>will expand on below.
> > > >>
> > > >>Some descriptors and/or phrases that should be
> > > >>present in an ad that
> > > >>would help ensure
> > > >>authenticity are:
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... burned down the barn, the store, the
> > > outhouse,
> > > >>etc.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... frightened- Mama, the horse, the goat, the
> > > >>pig, etc.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... killed the cow, the dog, the mailman, etc.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... too hot to touch for three days.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... set the field, the woods, Charlie, etc., on
> > > >>fire.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... glowed real bright green, red, blue, etc.,
> > > all
> > > >>night.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... melted the shovel, pick, car, cat, etc.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... picked that little sucker up out of the
> > > bottom
> > > >>of the ten foot
> > > >>deep crater that it made.
> > > >>
> > > >>There are, of course, any number of other
> > > >>descriptor/phrases that lend
> > > >>virtually
> > > >>infallible authenticity to what would otherwise be
> > > >>'questionable
> > > >>meteorites'. But
> > > >>the ones above will give a good start to novices
> > > >>unfamiliar with what to
> > > >>look for
> > > >>in the eBay ads.
> > > >>
> > > >

Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[Martin Altmann]

"the European dealers should be proud of Matteo and his rants."

???

and the US-dealers of their prices?

Martin A.

- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "David
Freeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?


> the problem I have with you is that you stole some Fredericksburg
meteorite
> from me, you bought it, never paid it off, and claim that since it rusted,
> you need not pay.
> That makes you a thief.
> the European dealers should be proud of Matteo and his rants.
> Mike Farmer
> - Original Message - 
> From: "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "David Freeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?
>
>
> > The same I task of meteorites found in America, for me
> > is all imported from the desert and strangely found in
> > USA deserts, and strangely I am not the only one to
> > think them but also persons of some laboratories
> > that strange eh? However I will report several to the
> > European dealers - all serious ones to 100% at the
> > moment, while for the moment the only problems that I
> > have had have been alone with
> > Americans - about what some personages think about
> > they.
> >
> >
> > Matteo
> >
> >
> > --- David Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Half the meteorites I see posted from European
> > > amatures are fraudulent.
> > > I SUSPECT ALL with low credentials. Even here in the
> > > United States.
> > > Unless they are found by Marines... ;-)
> > > Dave Freeman
> > >
> > > M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
> > >
> > > >whyis not possible find a iron meteorite in
> > > Spain?
> > > >Or is type the question italian meteorites,
> > > impossible
> > > >to find? If this is a Sikhote alin well, for me the
> > > >Taza is all sikhote's find in desert see is many
> > > many
> > > >similar, or Etter for me is a NWA put in
> > > USAhard
> > > >give a confirm
> > > >
> > > >Matteo
> > > >
> > > >--- "Jerry A. Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems wrote:
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
>http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3239
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> >
> > > >
> > > >>>Kind regards,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>*Bernhard "/Rendelius"/ Rems*
> > > >>>
> > > >>Well, Bernhard, I had the same initial reaction to
> > > >>the pictures that
> > > >>Dave F. did; it sure
> > > >>looked like some Sikhote Alin schrapnel.
> > > >>
> > > >>But aside from that, judging from their eBay ad
> > > text
> > > >>description, it
> > > >>appears that there
> > > >>are none of the standard descriptors nor expected
> > > >>phrases present in the
> > > >>ad that would
> > > >>lend credibility to their claim of having found a
> > > >>meteorite, with one
> > > >>exception which I
> > > >>will expand on below.
> > > >>
> > > >>Some descriptors and/or phrases that should be
> > > >>present in an ad that
> > > >>would help ensure
> > > >>authenticity are:
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... burned down the barn, the store, the
> > > outhouse,
> > > >>etc.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... frightened- Mama, the horse, the goat, the
> > > >>pig, etc.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... killed the cow, the dog, the mailman, etc.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... too hot to touch for three days.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... set the field, the woods, Charlie, etc., on
> > > >>fire.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... glowed real bright green, red, blue, etc.,
> > > all
> > > >>night.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... melted the shovel, pick, car, cat, etc.
> > > >>
> > > >>* ... picked that little sucker up out of the
> > > bottom
> > > >>of the ten foot
> > > >>deep crater that it made.
> > > >>
> > > >>There are, of course, any number of other
> > > >>descriptor/phrases that lend
> > > >>virtually
> > > >>infallible authenticity to what would otherwise be
> > > >>'questionable
> > > >>meteorites'. But
> > > >>the ones above will give a good start to novices
> > > >>unfamiliar with what to
> > > >>look for
> > > >>in the eBay ads.
> > > >>
> > > >>The one item in the eBay ad description that had a
> > > >>ring of truth to it
> > > >>was the
> > > >>mention that it was found only twenty minutes
> > > after
> > > >>falling.
> > > >>
> > > >>I can easily imagine the following scenario
> > > (you'll
> > > >>have to excuse me
> > > >>for not
> > > >>illustrating this with people from the towns of
> > > >>Palencia and León in
> > > >>Spain; I
> > > >>have to go with what I'm familiar with):
> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>their shack high in the
> > > >>Ozark
> > > >>mountains, in the cool of the evening, imbibing
> > > >>their nightly refreshment.
> > > >>NOTE: Setting not important- same thing can and
> > > does
> > > >>happen anywhere in
> > 

[meteorite-list] NASA Mars Rover's First Soil Analysis Yields Surprises

[Ron Baalke]

MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE
JET PROPULSION LABORATORY
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
PASADENA, CALIFORNIA 91109. TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov

Guy Webster (818) 354-5011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

Donald Savage (202) 358-1547
NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C.

NEWS RELEASE: 2004-025  January 20, 2004

NASA Mars Rover's First Soil Analysis Yields Surprises

The first use of the tools on the arm of NASA's Mars Exploration Rover
Spirit reveals puzzles about the soil it examined and raises
anticipation about what the tool will find during its studies of a
martian rock.

Today and overnight tonight, Spirit is using its microscope and two
up-close spectrometers on a football-sized rock called Adirondack,
said Jennifer Trosper, mission manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion
Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

"We're really happy with the way the spacecraft continues to work for
us," Trosper said.  The large amount of data -- nearly 100 megabits --
transmitted from Spirit in a single relay session through NASA's Mars
Odyssey spacecraft today "is like getting an upgrade to our Internet
connection."

Scientists today reported initial impressions from using Spirit's
alpha particle X-ray spectrometer, Moessbauer spectrometer and
microscopic imager on a patch of soil that was directly in front of
the rover after Spirit drove off its lander Jan. 15.

"We're starting to put together a picture of what the soil at this
particular place in Gusev Crater is like. There are some puzzles and
there are surprises," said Dr. Steve Squyres of Cornell University,
Ithaca, N.Y., principal investigator for the suite of instruments on
Spirit and on Spirit's twin, Opportunity.

One unexpected finding was the Moessbauer spectrometer's detection of
a mineral called olivine, which does not survive weathering well. This
spectrometer identifies different types of iron-containing minerals;
scientists believe many of the minerals on Mars contain iron.  "This
soil contains a mixture of minerals, and each mineral has its own
distinctive Moessbauer pattern, like a fingerprint," said Dr. Goestar
Klingelhoefer of Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany, lead
scientist for this instrument.

The lack of weathering suggested by the presence of olivine might be
evidence that the soil particles are finely ground volcanic material,
Squyres said. Another possible explanation is that the soil layer
where the measurements were taken is extremely thin, and the olivine
is actually in a rock under the soil. 

Scientists were also surprised by how little the soil was disturbed
when Spirit's robotic arm pressed the Moessbauer spectrometer's
contact plate directly onto the patch being examined. Microscopic
images from before and after that pressing showed almost no change. "I
thought it would scrunch down the soil particles," Squyres said.
"Nothing collapsed. What is holding these grains together?"

Information from another instrument on the arm, an alpha particle
X-ray spectrometer, may point to an answer. This instrument "measures
X-ray radiation emitted by Mars samples, and from this data we can
derive the elemental composition of martian soils and rocks," said Dr.
Johannes Brueckner, rover science team member from the Max Planck
Institute for Chemistry, Mainz, Germany. The instrument found the most
prevalent elements in the soil patch were silicon and iron. It also
found significant levels of chlorine and sulfur, characteristic of
soils at previous martian landing sites but unlike soil composition on
Earth.

Squyres said, "There may be sulfates and chlorides binding the little
particles together."  Those types of salts could be left behind by
evaporating water, or could come from volcanic eruptions, he said. The
soil may not have even originated anywhere near Spirit's landing site,
because Mars has dust storms that redistribute fine particles around
the planet.  The next target for use of the rover's full set of
instruments is a rock, which is more likely to have originated nearby.

Spirit landed in the Connecticut-sized Gusev Crater on Jan. 3 (EST and
PST; Jan. 4 Universal Time). In coming weeks and months, according to
plans, it will examine rocks and soil for clues about whether the past
environment there was ever watery and possibly suitable to sustaining
life. Spirit's twin Mars Exploration Rover, Opportunity, will reach
Mars on Jan. 25 (EST and Universal Time; 9:05 p.m., Jan. 24, PST) to
begin a similar examination of a site on the opposite side of the
planet.

JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena,
manages the Mars Exploration Rover project for NASA's Office of Space
Science, Washington, D.C.  Images and additional information about the
project are available from JPL at 

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov

and from Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., at 

http://athena.cornell.edu/ .

-end-



__

[meteorite-list] Mars Rover Science Team Ponders Soil Mysteries

[Ron Baalke]

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/040120science.html

Mars rover science team ponders soil mysteries
BY WILLIAM HARWOOD
STORY WRITTEN FOR CBS NEWS "SPACE PLACE" & USED WITH PERMISSION
January 20, 2004

In the first patch of soil examined in detail by instruments aboard the Mars
Spirit rover, scientists were surprised to find olivine, a silicate mineral that
typically forms in igneous rocks of volcanic origin. It also weathers rapidly in the
presence of water, posing a mystery of sorts for the rover science team. 

Spirit's landing site - Gusev Crater - is believed to have harbored a vast lake
in the distant past and the major goal of the rover mission is to find out if water
might have existed on the martian surface long enough for life to have evolved. 

Olivine was discovered earlier, elsewhere on Mars, by the Mars Global
Surveyor spacecraft currently in orbit around the red planet. The mineral quickly
weathers to form clays and iron oxides and its presence could imply an absence
of long-standing water in Gusev Crater. 

Spirit principal investigator Steve Squyres said he has no doubt the
100-mile-wide crater held a lake at some point in the distant past. But the
tortured history of the red planet has likely turned the crater floor into a complex
mixture of rock and soil types that will take time to sort through. 

"Mars is not going to give up secrets easily in this place," he told reporters
today. "It's going to take a long time to puzzle through this. But the key is,
we've got the tools to do it." 

The discovery of olivine, he said, did two things: It provided an intriguing puzzle
for geologists to ponder and served as welcome proof that Spirit's full
complement of scientific instruments, including a sophisticated Mossbauer
spectrometer supplied by Germany, is working properly. 

"What is olivine? It's a mineral, it's a silicate mineral so it has silicon, oxygen,
it has iron in it, it has magnesium in it," Squyres said. "It is the kind of mineral
that one finds in igneous rocks, volcanic rocks, lava, basalt. 

"Now it forms in a number of different kinds of rocks, but it is a primary igneous
mineral for the most part, it's not something that you form as a result of lots of
chemical weathering. 

"Now there are a couple of different ways to interpret this," he said. "One
possibility is that this martian soil, rather than being the result of a chemical
weathering process, is simply very finely ground lava, very finely ground rock.
That's one possibility, that would be a surprise to me. 

"Some people on my team are so surprised to see the olivine in this
measurement that they don't think we're looking at the soil. It's entirely
possible that a millimeter down, two millimeters down beneath those grains is
solid rock. Some people on my team believe we're seeing through that fluffy
stuff ... so there may be rock solid rock beneath this stuff." 

It is possible volcanic activity after the hypothesized lake vanished covered
over earlier lakebed deposits. Even so, Squyres is optimistic about eventually
finding such rocks. 

"I believe it is unavoidable that somewhere beneath our wheels are lake
sediments," he said. "How far down do we have to go to get to them? I don't
know. There are a couple of possibilities. One of them is this stuff has been
churned up so completely by impacts that whatever was present in the way of
sedimentary layering is long gone and what we're seeing at the surface is some
mixture of maybe volcanic materials, windblown materials, stuff that's been
churned up by the impact process. So that's one possibility. 

"Another possibility is that what we're sitting on is just stuff that's been blown
in by the wind, and volcanic (activity) and so forth and that the lake sediments
are, in fact, buried. As I said, it's beneath our wheels somewhere, but I don't
know how far down." 

Luckily, a 650-foot-wide crater is within reach of Spirit, a mere 820 feet or so
away from its current position. The impact that created a crater that wide could
have blasted out material from as much as 150 feet below the current surface. 

"As we get close to that crater and we start to see the ejecta, the stuff that was
thrown out of it, we're going to be getting deeper and deeper into materials that
came from far beneath our wheels," Squyres said. "I don't think there's any
question, as I said, that there was once a lake at Gusev Crater. But I also said
Mars is not going to give up her secrets very easily. And finding those
materials is going to take the full capabilities this vehicle has to offer." 

Spirit rolled off its lander and onto the floor of Gusev Crater late last week. Its
first scientific target was a small patch of fine-grain soil just a few feet from the
lander. The rover's instrument deployment device, or IDD - a robot arm by any
other name - pointed a microscope at the soil and then two spectrometers, the
Mossbauer and the Alpha Particle X-ray Spectrometer, also provided by
Germany. The for

[meteorite-list] People have left the list because of personal attacks.

[tett]

All and no one in particular,

I have been in touch with Bernd and was very sad to learn that he left the
list because of the verbal abuse that continues to fly.  People are using
the list to attack others and it is disgraceful.

I wonder how many other people have dropped out because of this behaviour?
How many newbies have been turned off of meteorites after seeing the crap
posted?

I have been lucky enough to have met Bernd and visited with him in Germany
this past summer.  Bernd and Pauline openned their home to me and we had a
great time discussing meteroties and astronomy and art and so much more.  I
have also been invited back and plan to visit summer 05.  It is because of
this list that I got to know Bernd.  Now he has left and many people will
not get the benefit of insightfull comments, extensive data base, and
enthusiasm.

I deeply enjoy meteorites and find that the list helps me keep in touch with
other enthusiasts and in touch with what is going on in the field.
Unfortunately, not as much as it used to.

If you have something to say to another person then do so privately.  If you
attack someone opennly then you are simply trying to use the list to advance
your own agenda and to gang up on that person.  Many have argued that "they
started it" and since they were opennly attacked then they should ahve the
right to reciprocate.  Perhaps that is true but all it does is continue the
downward spiral.  It is a bigger person who decides to respond in private
and not use the list to support their own position.

If personal attacks (REGARDLESS OF HOW JUSTIFIED THEY ARE) were sent
privately and kept off the list then people like Bernd would still be here.
Perhaps this list can return to what it was.  A fantastic forum created by
Art to advance the science of meteorites and link enthusiasts around the
world.  Maybe we could even get bernd back.

Sorry to have sermonized but I am just fed up.

Mike Tettenborn
Owen Sound, Ontario



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Meteorite-list mailing list
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http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Boom, Poof, or Sizzle!

[Sterling K. Webb]

 Hi, Dave,

 The gas can't explode unless mixed thoroughly and in the
 proper proportion with oxygen: two O2 for every CH4. Of course, if
 you wreck the piping, the gas could escape and mix with the
 atmosphere and if it were ignited you'd a gas well fire of
 tremendous size, I guess.
 But the energy released by the complete combustion of 100
 billion ft3 of gas is a pop in the bucket compared with the
 kinetic energy released when an impactor arrives unexpectedly. In
 all the hullabaloo, you would never notice the 100 billion ft3 of
 gas exploding. Of course, if you're close enought to notice, your
 noticing days are probably over.
 The key term is the velocity. You could throw a baseball (I
 imagine) about 30 m/sec. But kinetic energy goes up as the square
 of the velocity. A space rock arrives at 30,000 m/sec, 1000 times
 faster, which means 1,000,000 times more energy.
 The average 100 meter stone impactor coming in at 20,000 m/sec
 has enought kinetic energy to:
 a) crush 10,000 times its own mass of rock, or
 b) melt 100 times its own mass of rock, or
 c) vaporize 10 times its own mass of rock, or
 d) accelerate 100 times its own mass to 2,000 m/sec. (In real
 life, it does some of all these things.)
 But let's say you had a nice space based rail gun that could
 accelerate a rock up to a lousy 1% of lightspeed (3,000,000
 m/sec). It would easy to do if the railgun was long enough.
 That object would have 100,000,000 times more energy than the
 "normal" space rock and could cause the same damage even though it
 only weighed 1/100,000,000 of what the "normal" space rock did.
 Or, to put it another way, at that speed, you could make a
 full-size model of the Barringer Crater with a lump of iron that
 weighed one kilo (2.2 pounds).
 The significance of the squaring of the velocity term is so
 great that you could easily have a moving object whose kinetic
 energy per unit weight exceeds the energy per unit weight released
 from the reaction of the core material of a thermonuclear bomb. A
 suficiently fast moving rock would make "the bomb" seem like a
 fire cracker.
 Kind of interesting for a species whose first weapon was
 thrown rock that the ultimate weapon could well be a rock thrown a
 lot faster!


 Sterling
 ---

 David Freeman wrote:

  Dear Listees;
  I came across an interesting bit of reading material
  that noted an area
  here in SW Wyoming is used as a natural gas  underground
  storage unit.
  The formation has natural gas pumped into  it under high
  pressure and
  the rock formation acts as a natural "tank" if you will.
  This tank holds
  over 110 Billion cubic feet of natural gas (picture an
  arasol can 10
  miles big a mile down).   We have another field not far
  to the east,
  just as big, and major coal and coal bed methane
  occurrences in between
  and all over the place, many being developed at a fever
  pace.
  Now to the good stuff that prompted the boom, poof and
  fizzle..
  If the surface injection wells, and the piping down to
  the depth of the
  gas reservoirs were blasted by a meteorite like the
  Barringer Crater
  incident, what would be the odds of an explosion of the
  gas being held
  there? I am sure the gas would escape the "tank"
  formation.  A shock of
  this nature could unleash the coal bed methane in
  explosive levels as
  well.   There are over 8 major (meaning full capacity
  and 30" diameter)
  natural gas transfer lines through this area supplying
  natural gas to
  all of our friends in other states, we have 25% of the
  US proven
  reserves (out side of Alaska that is).
  Sudden impact barbecue possible?
  inquiring mind wants to know.
  Dave Freeman



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Re: [meteorite-list] Spirit Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for Close Inspection

[Sterling K. Webb]

 Hi,

 Does anybody remember the "Pyramids of Elysium" from the
 Viking Orbiter images? These were 500 to 800 meter three-sided
 steep hills clustered in one location. Naturally, there was a
 "school of thought" that claimed them as Ancient Alien
 Artifacts, great pyramids build by the... yada, yada, yada.
 They were ventifacts, of course. The same thing occurs
 with lots of small hills in the deserts of Chile. They look
 like they might be pyramids, but close up, they are just
 hills.
 Since all the rocks around Spirit are not shaped like
 this, either a) this one is older, or b) this one is softer,
 or c) this one came from a different location as most of the
 other rocks in the neighborhood.


 Sterling
 --

 Dan Wray wrote:

  Hello Thomas and group,

  Adirondack and many other rocks in the rover photos
  appear to be altered by wind erosion. This can leave
  very sharp faces and are known as ventifacts.  Other
  terms used for this effect are dreikanter also
  windkanter.  Seasonal changes in wind direction can
  cause two or three distinct planes on the rock
  surface.  They are common in windy desert
  environments.

  Dan Wray

  COMETS

   - Original Message -

   From: Thomas Webb

   To: Ron Baalke

   Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

   Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 7:35 AM

   Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Spirit
   Drives to a Rock Called 'Adirondack' for
   Close Inspection



   Ron and List,

   Does it appear to you that there may have
   been some shearing on the right hand side
   of the rock called 'Adirondack'?

   Thomas H. Webb

   Ron Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   wrote:



Guy Webster (818) 354-5011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory,
Pasadena, Calif.

Donald Savage (202) 358-1547
NASA Headquarters, Washington,
D.C.

News Release: 2004-024 January
19, 2004

Spirit Drives to a Rock Called
'Adirondack' for Close
Inspection

NASA's Spirit rover has
successfully driven to its first
target on
Mars, a football-sized rock that
scientists have dubbed
Adirondack.

The Mars Exploration Rover
flight team at NASA's Jet
Propulsion
Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.,
plans to send commands to Spirit
early
Tuesday to examine Adirondack
with a microscope and two
instruments
that reveal the composition of
rocks, said JPL's Dr. Mark
Adler,
Spirit mission manager. The
instruments are the Mössbauer
spectrometer and the alpha
particle X-ray spectrometer.

Spirit successfully rolled off
the lander and onto the martian
surface last Thursday. To make
the drive to Adirondack, the
rover
turned 40 degrees in short arcs
totaling 95 centimeters (3.1
feet).
It then turned in place to face
the target rock and drove four
short
moves straightforward totaling
1.9 meters (6.2 feet). The moves

covered a span of 30 minutes on
Sunday, though most of that was
sitting still and taking
pictures between moves. The
total amount
of time when Spirit was actually
moving was about two minutes.

"These are the sorts of baby
steps we're taking," said JPL's
Dr.
Eddie Tunstel, rover mobility
engineer.

"The drive was designed for two
purposes, one of which was to
get to
the rock," Tunstel said. "From
the mobility engineers'
standpoint,
this drive was geared to testing
out how we do drives on this new

surface." Gathering

Re: [meteorite-list] People have left the list because of personal attacks.

[j . divelbiss]

Mike and others,

I accept your back handed slap with dignity. It was deserved. I too miss 
Bernd. He was my favorite list personality when I first became a member. Over 
time I noticed he posted less and less. It is no wonder with all the crap 
that has gone on in he last two years including my own idiotic posts at times.

>From here on I propose to stay within the lines of reason, and will try with 
my best effort to keep from attacking anyone...especially towards a select 
few who will still drive me crazy with just about every post they make.

If I can't do so, I will recognize it and volunteerly move on and leave the 
list also...without a problem. 

My apologies to all...including Matteo,

John

> All and no one in particular,
> 
> I have been in touch with Bernd and was very sad to learn that he left the
> list because of the verbal abuse that continues to fly.  People are using
> the list to attack others and it is disgraceful.
> 
> I wonder how many other people have dropped out because of this behaviour?
> How many newbies have been turned off of meteorites after seeing the crap
> posted?
> 
> I have been lucky enough to have met Bernd and visited with him in Germany
> this past summer.  Bernd and Pauline openned their home to me and we had a
> great time discussing meteroties and astronomy and art and so much more.  I
> have also been invited back and plan to visit summer 05.  It is because of
> this list that I got to know Bernd.  Now he has left and many people will
> not get the benefit of insightfull comments, extensive data base, and
> enthusiasm.
> 
> I deeply enjoy meteorites and find that the list helps me keep in touch with
> other enthusiasts and in touch with what is going on in the field.
> Unfortunately, not as much as it used to.
> 
> If you have something to say to another person then do so privately.  If you
> attack someone opennly then you are simply trying to use the list to advance
> your own agenda and to gang up on that person.  Many have argued that "they
> started it" and since they were opennly attacked then they should ahve the
> right to reciprocate.  Perhaps that is true but all it does is continue the
> downward spiral.  It is a bigger person who decides to respond in private
> and not use the list to support their own position.
> 
> If personal attacks (REGARDLESS OF HOW JUSTIFIED THEY ARE) were sent
> privately and kept off the list then people like Bernd would still be here.
> Perhaps this list can return to what it was.  A fantastic forum created by
> Art to advance the science of meteorites and link enthusiasts around the
> world.  Maybe we could even get bernd back.
> 
> Sorry to have sermonized but I am just fed up.
> 
> Mike Tettenborn
> Owen Sound, Ontario
> 
> 
> 
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] People have left the list because of personal attacks.

[MARK BOSTICK]

Hello Mike,   I think many of us share your thoughts.  Bernd was a great asset to the list, the information and research background he provided on newspapers I posted, or topics brought up by others was always of interest.  Last I heard from him, if I remember right, he was getting busy with school and I wish him well.    Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com

Re: [meteorite-list] Boom, Poof, or Sizzle!

[David Freeman]

Dear Sterling;
Thank you very much, this was a very interesting reply. Yup, I sell 
rocks, rocks that have been throw even.  I also sell rocks at the local 
gun show a number of times a year.  Quite fascinating to sell rocks at a 
gun show.  Maybe some day I sell guns at a "personal protection 
lazer-phazer" show.
Thank you for the wisdom,
Dave Freeman

Sterling K. Webb wrote:

Hi, Dave,

The gas can't explode unless mixed thoroughly and in the
proper proportion with oxygen: two O2 for every CH4. Of course, if
you wreck the piping, the gas could escape and mix with the
atmosphere and if it were ignited you'd a gas well fire of
tremendous size, I guess.
But the energy released by the complete combustion of 100
billion ft3 of gas is a pop in the bucket compared with the
kinetic energy released when an impactor arrives unexpectedly. In
all the hullabaloo, you would never notice the 100 billion ft3 of
gas exploding. Of course, if you're close enought to notice, your
noticing days are probably over.
The key term is the velocity. You could throw a baseball (I
imagine) about 30 m/sec. But kinetic energy goes up as the square
of the velocity. A space rock arrives at 30,000 m/sec, 1000 times
faster, which means 1,000,000 times more energy.
The average 100 meter stone impactor coming in at 20,000 m/sec
has enought kinetic energy to:
a) crush 10,000 times its own mass of rock, or
b) melt 100 times its own mass of rock, or
c) vaporize 10 times its own mass of rock, or
d) accelerate 100 times its own mass to 2,000 m/sec. (In real
life, it does some of all these things.)
But let's say you had a nice space based rail gun that could
accelerate a rock up to a lousy 1% of lightspeed (3,000,000
m/sec). It would easy to do if the railgun was long enough.
That object would have 100,000,000 times more energy than the
"normal" space rock and could cause the same damage even though it
only weighed 1/100,000,000 of what the "normal" space rock did.
Or, to put it another way, at that speed, you could make a
full-size model of the Barringer Crater with a lump of iron that
weighed one kilo (2.2 pounds).
The significance of the squaring of the velocity term is so
great that you could easily have a moving object whose kinetic
energy per unit weight exceeds the energy per unit weight released
from the reaction of the core material of a thermonuclear bomb. A
suficiently fast moving rock would make "the bomb" seem like a
fire cracker.
Kind of interesting for a species whose first weapon was
thrown rock that the ultimate weapon could well be a rock thrown a
lot faster!
Sterling
---
David Freeman wrote:

 Dear Listees;
 I came across an interesting bit of reading material
 that noted an area
 here in SW Wyoming is used as a natural gas  underground
 storage unit.
 The formation has natural gas pumped into  it under high
 pressure and
 the rock formation acts as a natural "tank" if you will.
 This tank holds
 over 110 Billion cubic feet of natural gas (picture an
 arasol can 10
 miles big a mile down).   We have another field not far
 to the east,
 just as big, and major coal and coal bed methane
 occurrences in between
 and all over the place, many being developed at a fever
 pace.
 Now to the good stuff that prompted the boom, poof and
 fizzle..
 If the surface injection wells, and the piping down to
 the depth of the
 gas reservoirs were blasted by a meteorite like the
 Barringer Crater
 incident, what would be the odds of an explosion of the
 gas being held
 there? I am sure the gas would escape the "tank"
 formation.  A shock of
 this nature could unleash the coal bed methane in
 explosive levels as
 well.   There are over 8 major (meaning full capacity
 and 30" diameter)
 natural gas transfer lines through this area supplying
 natural gas to
 all of our friends in other states, we have 25% of the
 US proven
 reserves (out side of Alaska that is).
 Sudden impact barbecue possible?
 inquiring mind wants to know.
 Dave Freeman




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Re: [meteorite-list] European Labs and IMCA vital signs

[Impactika]

In a message dated 1/20/2004 3:00:39 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


If the IMCA needs a new host, I will happily offer them webspace on my
box.

Bernhard


Dear List-members - 

2. The website for the IMCA (International Meteorite Collectors Assoc.)
is apparently down. Is this group still functioning as an organization?
If so, do they have meetings, by-laws and elected (or appointed) Board
members? 

Danke, yak shimosh, merci y gracias,

Kevin Kichinka


Yes Kevin, the IMCA is still in business even when Rhett is fighting off "server-problems" and "Yahoo-problems".  I'll let him explain them, if he has time.
Thank you Bernhard, for the offer, it is appreciated. We will remember it if (when) it becomes necessary. 

You are welcome!

Anne M. Black
www. IMPACTIKA.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
IMCA  #2356

Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[DNAndrews]

M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:

The same I task of meteorites found in America, for me
is all imported from the desert and strangely found in
USA deserts, and strangely I am not the only one to
think them but also persons of some laboratories
that strange eh? However I will report several to the
European dealers - all serious ones to 100% at the
moment, while for the moment the only problems that I
have had have been alone with
Americans - about what some personages think about
they.
 

And all this from a person that allegedly posed a Pultusk for a Tessera 
"Backyard" Meteorite.  You never cease to amaze me Matteo.  Why are you 
still here?  I thought you unsubscribed over a month ago.  It's kind of 
like "the pot calling the kettle black", isn't it?

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Re: [meteorite-list] People have left the list because of personal attacks.

[Michael L Blood]

John, Mark, Mike & all,
The best and most effective thing to do when someone on the
list is out of line is to NOT RESPOND to them - at least, not on the
list. The more unhealthy a person is, the more they feed off of
public acknowledgement, no matter how negative.
This is MUCH easier said than done, especially when they slam
you, personally, on the list. I know, I have gotten caught up, myself,
on more that one occasion.
One can always direct comments to them directly - off the list,
however, without "feeding" this ironic hunger AND without driving
off our most cherished members. Personally, when I am functioning
at other than my lower levels, I find ignoring them altogether the
most satisfactory course of non-action - at least for myself.
Wishing us all restraint and higher levels of functioning - Michael

 




on 1/20/04 6:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Mike and others,
> 
> I accept your back handed slap with dignity. It was deserved. I too miss
> Bernd. He was my favorite list personality when I first became a member. Over
> time I noticed he posted less and less. It is no wonder with all the crap
> that has gone on in he last two years including my own idiotic posts at times.
> 
> From here on I propose to stay within the lines of reason, and will try with
> my best effort to keep from attacking anyone...especially towards a select
> few who will still drive me crazy with just about every post they make.
> 
> If I can't do so, I will recognize it and volunteerly move on and leave the
> list also...without a problem.
> 
> My apologies to all...including Matteo,
> 
> John
> 
>> All and no one in particular,
>> 
>> I have been in touch with Bernd and was very sad to learn that he left the
>> list because of the verbal abuse that continues to fly.  People are using
>> the list to attack others and it is disgraceful.
>> 
>> I wonder how many other people have dropped out because of this behaviour?
>> How many newbies have been turned off of meteorites after seeing the crap
>> posted?
>> 
>> I have been lucky enough to have met Bernd and visited with him in Germany
>> this past summer.  Bernd and Pauline openned their home to me and we had a
>> great time discussing meteroties and astronomy and art and so much more.  I
>> have also been invited back and plan to visit summer 05.  It is because of
>> this list that I got to know Bernd.  Now he has left and many people will
>> not get the benefit of insightfull comments, extensive data base, and
>> enthusiasm.
>> 
>> I deeply enjoy meteorites and find that the list helps me keep in touch with
>> other enthusiasts and in touch with what is going on in the field.
>> Unfortunately, not as much as it used to.
>> 
>> If you have something to say to another person then do so privately.  If you
>> attack someone opennly then you are simply trying to use the list to advance
>> your own agenda and to gang up on that person.  Many have argued that "they
>> started it" and since they were opennly attacked then they should ahve the
>> right to reciprocate.  Perhaps that is true but all it does is continue the
>> downward spiral.  It is a bigger person who decides to respond in private
>> and not use the list to support their own position.
>> 
>> If personal attacks (REGARDLESS OF HOW JUSTIFIED THEY ARE) were sent
>> privately and kept off the list then people like Bernd would still be here.
>> Perhaps this list can return to what it was.  A fantastic forum created by
>> Art to advance the science of meteorites and link enthusiasts around the
>> world.  Maybe we could even get bernd back.
>> 
>> Sorry to have sermonized but I am just fed up.
>> 
>> Mike Tettenborn
>> Owen Sound, Ontario
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> __
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--
When Jesus said "Love your enemies" I think he probably
meant don't kill them.
   Anonymous
--
AMAZING photos of Aurora Borealis, etc.
http://faculty.rmwc.edu/tmichalik/atmosphere.htm
--
Hubble space telescope - AMAZING photos!:
http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm
--
http://www.costofwar.com/
--
SUPPORT OUR TROUPS:
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html
--
Worth Seeing:  Earth at night from satellite:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg
--
- Interactive Lady Liberty:
http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm
-- 
Earth - variety of choices:
http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html
--
Michael Blood Meteorites:
http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/




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[meteorite-list] Kicking the Tires on Mars

[Ron Baalke]

http://www.latimes.com/la-sci-rover19jan19,1,934409.story

Kicking the Tires on Mars

An auto reviewer finds rover Spirit a bit pricey -- $410 million, 
with destination and delivery charges -- but enthuses it really 
shines off-road.

By Dan Neil
Los Angeles Times
January 19, 2004

There is a saying in robotics: You shouldn't anthropomorphize
robots. They don't like it.

Even so, it's hard not to think of the Mars Exploration Rover Spirit
as a kind of gawky, geeky geologist moving in halting steps as it
fitfully cogitates its path to the next interesting rock. All it needs is
a pith helmet.

>From my perspective as The Times' auto reviewer, I can tell you
there is nothing human at all about Spirit.

It's a car.

Like any car, it has wheels. Yes, there are six of them, but a Ford
"dualie" pickup has that many too. It's underpowered (about 0.06
horsepower), but so are many vehicles from India.

With a top speed of about 0.1 mph, the brains of an obsolete
desktop computer and the power of two light bulbs, the rover is not
what you would call a space Ferrari.

But to the men and women of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, it's a
screaming hot rod of interplanetary science.

"It's an awesome machine," said Spirit flight director Chris
Lewicki. "It's the coolest set of wheels on Mars."

There are only two places in the universe to get behind the wheel
of a rover. One is Pasadena, the other is Gusev Crater on Mars.

I opted for Pasadena, looking over the shoulder of rover operator
Scott A. Maxwell at his keyboard cockpit as he rehearsed his first
drives in the Martian countryside.

The rover is not a luxury vehicle. That's a galactic understatement.
There are no heated seats, no in-car DVD player, no tinted
windows, no refrigerated glove box. You have to buy a Saab for
that.

For a stripped-down model, it's a bit on the expensive side -
about $410 million, with destination and delivery charges to Mars.

The first problem with driving the rover is that you can't actually
drive it. Mars is far away: 100 million miles, or 8.9 light-minutes.
To send a message and get a reply takes, at best, about 20
minutes.

The delay means that Spirit, which rolled off its lander Thursday,
cannot be "joysticked," that is, controlled from the ground in real
time. The Soviet Lunakhod moon rover - a mere 3 light-seconds
from Earth - required a five-man team to tele-operate, and it was
a handful.

"That time delay really messes us up," said Brian Cooper, one of
the rover controllers.

Spirit and its twin, Opportunity (scheduled to land on Mars on
Saturday), are point-and-shoot machines. They are imbued with a
large degree of autonomy, designed with their own
decision-making software so that they may be at home on the
Martian range.

What rover operators do is throw a lawn dart icon at a 
computerized map of Mars, marking the destination the science 
team back at JPL has picked out. Think of it as NASA's version 
of the OnStar system.

Then, using its complex terrain visualization and guidance system, 
Spirit will traverse on its own to the target through a series of 
"way points." 

"We tell it: 'You can get to this spot, and we don't care how you 
get there and we don't care what your final orientation is,' " 
Cooper said.

It's kind of like driving a Hummer in Los Angeles.

The Hummer, at least, has headlights. The rover needs three sets 
of black-and-white navigational cameras to see where it's going. One 
set of navigation cameras is on top of a mast, and two sets of hazard 
avoidance cameras are on its "bumpers."

The three-dimensional images created are processed in two ways: 
human 3-D, the kind of stereoscopic images familiar from cheesy 
horror movies; and machine 3-D, a swarming cloud of data points that 
model the contours of the terrain. 

The human 3-D images are fed into special LCD goggles - high-tech 
versions of those "Night of the Living Dead" specs - that help drivers 
visualize hazards on the surface.

"It looks like you are walking on Mars," Cooper said.

Maybe, but in the dim control rooms of JPL, the rover drivers in 
their dark shades look like jazz musicians grooving on a cosmic melody.

But even the most data-rich terrain map can be treacherously incomplete 
because Spirit cannot see behind rocks and obstacles. It's like driving 
through the desert at night. The long shadows cast by rocks and brush 
are analogous to the hollows of incomplete data.

"The problem is that neither the rover nor the human planners on Earth 
can see very far away," said Mark Maimone, a space robotics expert at JPL. 
"It sees pretty well 10 to 20 meters out, but it falls off after that."

As a result, it's easy for the rover - and its backseat drivers at JPL - 
to get disoriented, as if it were navigating an unfamiliar city at night.

To keep track of its position, Spirit is equipped with an inertial 
measurement unit, the same hardware that helps tell an F-16 pilot which 
way is up. 

"It's really quite challenging in the Mars-like t

Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[Michael Farmer]

Martin, is that good or bad? I got offered a 45 kilo Gibeon today for 45000
Euros. HMMM, a little steep for my tastes. I seem to note that American
prices for the most part tend to be lower than the European prices.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: "Martin Altmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?


> "the European dealers should be proud of Matteo and his rants."
>
> ???
>
> and the US-dealers of their prices?
>
> Martin A.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "David
> Freeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?
>
>
> > the problem I have with you is that you stole some Fredericksburg
> meteorite
> > from me, you bought it, never paid it off, and claim that since it
rusted,
> > you need not pay.
> > That makes you a thief.
> > the European dealers should be proud of Matteo and his rants.
> > Mike Farmer
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "David Freeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?
> >
> >
> > > The same I task of meteorites found in America, for me
> > > is all imported from the desert and strangely found in
> > > USA deserts, and strangely I am not the only one to
> > > think them but also persons of some laboratories
> > > that strange eh? However I will report several to the
> > > European dealers - all serious ones to 100% at the
> > > moment, while for the moment the only problems that I
> > > have had have been alone with
> > > Americans - about what some personages think about
> > > they.
> > >
> > >
> > > Matteo
> > >
> > >
> > > --- David Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Half the meteorites I see posted from European
> > > > amatures are fraudulent.
> > > > I SUSPECT ALL with low credentials. Even here in the
> > > > United States.
> > > > Unless they are found by Marines... ;-)
> > > > Dave Freeman
> > > >
> > > > M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >whyis not possible find a iron meteorite in
> > > > Spain?
> > > > >Or is type the question italian meteorites,
> > > > impossible
> > > > >to find? If this is a Sikhote alin well, for me the
> > > > >Taza is all sikhote's find in desert see is many
> > > > many
> > > > >similar, or Etter for me is a NWA put in
> > > > USAhard
> > > > >give a confirm
> > > > >
> > > > >Matteo
> > > > >
> > > > >--- "Jerry A. Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2219315732&category=3239
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>>Kind regards,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>*Bernhard "/Rendelius"/ Rems*
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>Well, Bernhard, I had the same initial reaction to
> > > > >>the pictures that
> > > > >>Dave F. did; it sure
> > > > >>looked like some Sikhote Alin schrapnel.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>But aside from that, judging from their eBay ad
> > > > text
> > > > >>description, it
> > > > >>appears that there
> > > > >>are none of the standard descriptors nor expected
> > > > >>phrases present in the
> > > > >>ad that would
> > > > >>lend credibility to their claim of having found a
> > > > >>meteorite, with one
> > > > >>exception which I
> > > > >>will expand on below.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Some descriptors and/or phrases that should be
> > > > >>present in an ad that
> > > > >>would help ensure
> > > > >>authenticity are:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>* ... burned down the barn, the store, the
> > > > outhouse,
> > > > >>etc.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>* ... frightened- Mama, the horse, the goat, the
> > > > >>pig, etc.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>* ... killed the cow, the dog, the mailman, etc.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>* ... too hot to touch for three days.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>* ... set the field, the woods, Charlie, etc., on
> > > > >>fire.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>* ... glowed real bright green, red, blue, etc.,
> > > > all
> > > > >>night.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>* ... melted the shovel, pick, car, cat, etc.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>* ... picked that little sucker up out of the
> > > > bottom
> > > > >>of the ten foot
> > > > >>deep crater that it made.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>There are, of course, any number of other
> > > > >>descriptor/phrases that lend
> > > > >>virtually
> > > > >>infallible authenticity to what would otherwise be
> > > > >>'questionable
> > > > >>meteorites'. But
> > > > >>the ones above will give a good start to novices
> > > > >>unfamiliar with what to
> > > > >>look for
> > > > >>in the eBay ads.
> > > 

Re: [meteorite-list] People have left the list because of personal attacks.

[DNAndrews]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Mike and others,

I accept your back handed slap with dignity. It was deserved. I too miss 
Bernd. He was my favorite list personality when I first became a member. Over 
time I noticed he posted less and less. It is no wonder with all the crap 
that has gone on in he last two years including my own idiotic posts at times.

From here on I propose to stay within the lines of reason, and will try with 
my best effort to keep from attacking anyone...especially towards a select 
few who will still drive me crazy with just about every post they make.

If I can't do so, I will recognize it and volunteerly move on and leave the 
list also...without a problem. 

My apologies to all...including Matteo,
 

I agree whole-heartedly John.  I miss Bernd too, as he was the 
DataHound/Librarian of our list and he is/will be sorely missed.  It's a 
shame it came to this to make him leave. However, I don't apologize to 
Matteo.  He's been inserting his jabs on Americans for a couple of years 
now.  And that isn't even the issue.  The things he complains about, he 
is the biggest offender.  So, according to Matteo, Robert Verish, Rob 
Matson, Nick Gessler and all the other crew are seeding the SW deserts 
with NWA's for new finds?  There are no other people who keep such 
stringent records of their findsLat/Long, person who finds it, time 
of day, size, weight, classification, leave a marker, etcneed I say 
more?  The source of these allegations is preposterous.  You owe all 
these people a big apology.  Why is an African desert more prone for 
finds than an American one?  Why does an Italian salt-water ocean beach 
produce such a fresh find?  Beats me!

Lido de Dave

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[meteorite-list] Ad: Park Forest Individual , Estherville Slice,Etc.

[Comcast Mail]

Hello List,
 
Thanks for putting up with my ads. I have listed a 
Park Forest Individual ( small but nice ) and also a nice slice of Estherville, 
Abu Moharek, etc.
 
Please see the link :
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=maccers531&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50
 
Thanks,
 
Bob Evans

Re: [meteorite-list] What do you think of that?

[DNAndrews]

Martin Altmann wrote:

"the European dealers should be proud of Matteo and his rants."

???

and the US-dealers of their prices?

Martin A.
 

Are European dealers cheaper???  I must have missed that little tid-bit 
somewhere during the last few years.  They (American slime), sure don't 
seem  anymore expensive than European dealers during the Tucson show.  
Quite the contary to what I've seen.  Guess we'll see in a couple of 
weeks.  Time will tell.

Best wishes,
Dave
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RE: [meteorite-list] People have left the list because of personal attacks.

[Ing. Christian ANGER]

Hi all,

there's a good alternative

http://www.worldofmeteorites.com/index.php

a place without any hate tirades and diffamations.

check it out.

best wishes,

Christian

IMCA #2673
www.austromet.com

Ing. Christian ANGER
Korngasse 6
2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg
AUSTRIA

email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of tett
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 2:38 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] People have left the list because of personal
attacks.


All and no one in particular,

I have been in touch with Bernd and was very sad to learn that he left the
list because of the verbal abuse that continues to fly.  People are using
the list to attack others and it is disgraceful.

I wonder how many other people have dropped out because of this behaviour?
How many newbies have been turned off of meteorites after seeing the crap
posted?

I have been lucky enough to have met Bernd and visited with him in Germany
this past summer.  Bernd and Pauline openned their home to me and we had a
great time discussing meteroties and astronomy and art and so much more.  I
have also been invited back and plan to visit summer 05.  It is because of
this list that I got to know Bernd.  Now he has left and many people will
not get the benefit of insightfull comments, extensive data base, and
enthusiasm.

I deeply enjoy meteorites and find that the list helps me keep in touch with
other enthusiasts and in touch with what is going on in the field.
Unfortunately, not as much as it used to.

If you have something to say to another person then do so privately.  If you
attack someone opennly then you are simply trying to use the list to advance
your own agenda and to gang up on that person.  Many have argued that "they
started it" and since they were opennly attacked then they should ahve the
right to reciprocate.  Perhaps that is true but all it does is continue the
downward spiral.  It is a bigger person who decides to respond in private
and not use the list to support their own position.

If personal attacks (REGARDLESS OF HOW JUSTIFIED THEY ARE) were sent
privately and kept off the list then people like Bernd would still be here.
Perhaps this list can return to what it was.  A fantastic forum created by
Art to advance the science of meteorites and link enthusiasts around the
world.  Maybe we could even get bernd back.

Sorry to have sermonized but I am just fed up.

Mike Tettenborn
Owen Sound, Ontario



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