date:20040923

but forFor 6/g you can have an absolutely killer 96g end piece...cut
a few off and sell em on ebay.
The olivine is wonderful
http://www.mhmeteorites.com/images/for_sale/seymchan_96.jpg
Matt

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve
Arnold, Chicago!!!
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:08 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] new pallasite


Hi list.I have $350 to spend on a slice of that new pallasite.Who has
some and what size is available?Please get back to me ASAP.Also I will
extend my half price sale thru tomorrow.

steve

=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 
Illinois Meteorites 
website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/
 
 









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[meteorite-list] new pallasite

2004-09-23 Thread Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!

Hi list.I have $350 to spend on a slice of that new pallasite.Who has some
and what size is available?Please get back to me ASAP.Also I will extend
my half price sale thru tomorrow.

steve

=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 
Illinois Meteorites 
website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/
 
 









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[meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Tim Heitz

Exactly, very well said Matt 

I only own one just for that very reason, just a NWA 3117 Howardite
And I do believe the name stuff will hold their value over time.
Tim Heitz



- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Morgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:37 PM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

This debate is exactly why I focus collecting meteorites from other
places besides the deserts. I only have 10 NWAs in my collection.
Many researchers jump to classify an L6 from the US over an L6 from
Morocco.
That is just the way it is.  These "named" meteorites have more sex
appeal, IMHO, and in many many cases, hold their value over a long
period.
Matt Morgan
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RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

This debate is exactly why I focus collecting meteorites from other
places besides the deserts. I only have 10 NWAs in my collection.
Many researchers jump to classify an L6 from the US over an L6 from
Morocco.
That is just the way it is.  These "named" meteorites have more sex
appeal, IMHO, and in many many cases, hold their value over a long
period.
Matt Morgan


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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Thank you Norbert, as always your opinion is valuable to me. Perhaps you can
elaborate on my prime example of DHO 020, every piece has been tested then?
No whole stones, entire strewnfield collected and documented in a single
expedition, nothing held back? Then we can talk about 007 and 700 if you
like but let's do it off list.

Trying to keep it simple, not misleading, this discussion is not about GPS
coordinates. As discussed earlier, Calcalong Creek GPS would have made it a
Millbillillie. GPS is more reliable, yes, but not definitive in PAIRING. The
NWA dilemma is requiring classification of every piece, is "require" easier
to understand than "demand"?

Again, I am in favor of "likely paired" and should have, should have, said
such. OK with MetSoc, OK with me if that circumvents waiting months or years
to state the obvious.

Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971



- Original Message - 
From: "Norbert Classen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Bernhard Rems"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:29 PM
Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Hi Rob, and All,
>
> Wow, you really know what's going on. Most of the Dhofar, SaU, DaG,
> and HaH finds are documented, i.e., we have the exact find locations
> and find circumstances on record, published in the Meteoritical
> Bulletin, and these data can be accessed by anyone who has the desire
> to do so. This is also true for a few selected NWA meteorites, but
> most of these lack proper documentation for obvious reasons. And a
> lack of proper documentation, i.e. exact find locations makes it
> really hard to say which meteorites may be paired or not. Dou you
> see the difference?
>
> Hey, and there are no other "demands" on the meteorites from Oman,
> Libya, or other desert areas compared to the demands on NWAs - their
> pairing is mostly established by scientists, at least for the rare
> classes. Several of the meteorite hunters that go to Oman, or Libya
> are scientists, or even seasoned meteoriticists, and they are doing
> an excellent job in the field, and in the lab. Please don't disregard
> this by simple, and misleading statements. Thanks.
>
> Best,
> Norbert
>
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> >
> > Dhofar 010, 020, 007..
> > Not necessarily better documentation, just exemption from the pairing
> > demands on NWA.
> >
> > Rob Wesel
> > --
> > We are the music makers...
> > and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> > Willy Wonka, 1971
> >
> >
>
>


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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Devin Schrader

Well Said.
 Devin

- Original Message - 
From: "Norbert Classen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Bernhard Rems"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:29 PM
Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Hi Rob, and All,
>
> Wow, you really know what's going on. Most of the Dhofar, SaU, DaG,
> and HaH finds are documented, i.e., we have the exact find locations
> and find circumstances on record, published in the Meteoritical
> Bulletin, and these data can be accessed by anyone who has the desire
> to do so. This is also true for a few selected NWA meteorites, but
> most of these lack proper documentation for obvious reasons. And a
> lack of proper documentation, i.e. exact find locations makes it
> really hard to say which meteorites may be paired or not. Dou you
> see the difference?
>
> Hey, and there are no other "demands" on the meteorites from Oman,
> Libya, or other desert areas compared to the demands on NWAs - their
> pairing is mostly established by scientists, at least for the rare
> classes. Several of the meteorite hunters that go to Oman, or Libya
> are scientists, or even seasoned meteoriticists, and they are doing
> an excellent job in the field, and in the lab. Please don't disregard
> this by simple, and misleading statements. Thanks.
>
> Best,
> Norbert
>
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> >
> > Dhofar 010, 020, 007..
> > Not necessarily better documentation, just exemption from the pairing
> > demands on NWA.
> >
> > Rob Wesel
> > --
> > We are the music makers...
> > and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> > Willy Wonka, 1971
> >
> >
>
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Devin Schrader

No, Dhofar does have better documentation than the majority of NWAs. GPS
coordinates are required for Dhofar, JaH, SAU, ect. Unlike the typical
'GPS' coordinates for NWAs = 'bought in Tucson'
Devin

- Original Message - 
From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bernhard Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Dhofar 010, 020, 007..
> Not necessarily better documentation, just exemption from the pairing
> demands on NWA.
>
> Rob Wesel
> --
> We are the music makers...
> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Bernhard Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'almitt'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:45 PM
> Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> This is an ongoing discussion between Martin and me :-)
>
> Martin is totally right: The meteorites from Oman and the ones from Dar
> Al Gani are much better documented. He's always wondering why I am so
> fond of the NWA's and disregard the Dhofars, Dags and HaHs.
>
> Well, actually, I don't :-). I have some of them, even main masses. But
> yes, I am a NWA junkie in some way. This isn't a rational thing. It's
> just affection in some way. Offer me a NWA number I don't have, and I'll
> most probably buy it, whether it is classified or not. That's the
> irrational part of my addiction, and I am not ashame for it.
>
> And he calls me Bernd just because we are in love *g*.
>
> Bernhard
>
>
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>

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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Meteoryt.net

> Ken, indeed, there may be other pieces, but since Adam and Jeff Grossman
> made it extremely clear last week that like the 1068 and 1110 meteorites,
> the name can only be used for my original piece 922 grams.
> Anything thought to be paired needs to be classified and given a new
number
> and perhaps listed at paired with 1929.
> I did not participate in last week's discussion, but I am now mad that the
> same people who fought so hard, are doing exactly what they fought
against.
> Mike Farmer

I agree, but world is not perfect.
I want to say about another side of mirror in this case from my point of
view. This is also the main reason why people sell METxx as MET01 in my
opinion.

I can buy NWA1110 , NWA1877, Amgala, NWA1929, and what You want from
Morocco.. but
for now I not find anyone who can classify my meteorites. I search in UCLA,
I asked f.e. Dr. Greshake, Dr. Bischoff,  M Grady and few other scientist.
Never received any answer, opinion if YES, NOT or not possible at this time.
And ofcourse I know, noone will play with L6 or H5, so I not asking for
that. Maybe I asking wrong questions to wrong people, dont know.

Second problem, I cant buy hundreds grams of Hovie or few grams of mars,
spend thousands of $$ and then waiting 6 months maybe for classification and
maybe year for number. Its impossible. This everything take too long. I
submited in may to Meteoritical Bulletin L3 S1/W1, my first submited
meteorite. OK it have ID 90 and still on Tracking page no info when someone
will check this if this data is correct ! So I not expect to receive number
in this year ! Its only small L3 with TKW 111g, but I know that there is few
kilo of the same material. So when I will buy another grams from the same
morocco dealer what I should to do ? Make the whole process from begining ?
Never :)

OK You can now tell me to go play with minerals or open shop with clothes or
go back to sell Ghubara, Sau001 and Gao only again. But my hobby is
meteorites.
So someone for who is importand to have X grams from XXX grams TKW, he can
buy it on TKW owner for XX$. Others, can buy from other sources as "paired"
for usualy only X$. But anyway, when someone CAN buy howardite for around
20$/g or less, then excuse me, but he should be extremely happy For me
alvays Howie was the same rare material as lunars, marses and now ? Hovie
for 20$/g woooww.

This is not fair maybe, but the whole situation with NWA is not fair, begin
from finding specimens and end on sale.
As Martin say, go buy well documented Dhofars if this is more importand for
You than look of purchased specimens.
Its alvays trust to dealer that his honesty that he know what he is selling.
I never checked any of my private collection specimens from what piece they
come or if they are authentic. I much more like the look of specimens all
this details and differences etc.  At last all pieces are meteorites.

This was My point of view. Maybe not right or "popular", but at last my
private statement

CU You all in monday again, have good weekend

-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.PolandMET.com   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com  GSM +48(607)535 195
[ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ]

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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Martin Altmann

Dhofar 241, Dho244, Dho250, Dho251, Dho253, Dho254, Dho255, Dho256, Dho257,
Dho258, Dho260, Dho261, Dho262, Dho264, Dho265, Dho334, Dho380, Dho381,
Dho384, Dho387, Dho388, Dho390, Dho391, Dho392, Dho393, Dho394, Dho395,
Dho396, Dho397, Dho398, Dho399, Dho400, Dho401, Dho403, Dho404, Dho405,
Dho407, Dho408, Dho410, Dho412, Dho414, Dho416, Dho418, Dho419, Dho420,
Dho421, Dho422, Dho423, Dho424, Dho428, Dho431, Dho432, Dho433, Dho435,
Dho436, Dho437, Dho438, Dho439, Dho442, Dho446, Dho448, Dho449, Dho451,
Dho453, Dho454, Dho455, Dho470, Dho472, Dho474, Dho475, Dho477, Dho478,
Dho479, Dho482, Dho483, Dho549, Dho550, Dho552, Dho553, Dho554, Dho555,
Dho556, Dho557, Dho558, Dho559, Dho560, Dho561, Dho562, Dho563, Dho564,
Dho565, Dho566, Dho567, Dho568, Dho569, Dho570, Dho571, Dho572, Dho573,
Dho574, Dho575, Dho576, Dho577, Dho578, Dho579, Dho582, Dho583, Dho587,
Dho588, Dho589, Dho590, Dho591, Dho592, Dho593, Dho594, Dho595, Dho596,
Dho597, Dho598, Dho600, Dho602, Dho603, Dho604, Dho605, Dho606, Dho607,
Dho608, Dho609, Dho610, Dho611, Dho612, Dho613, Dho615, Dho616, Dho617,
Dho618, Dho619, Dho620, Dho621, Dho623, Dho624, Dho625, Dho626, Dho627,
Dho628, Dho629, Dho630, Dho631, Dho632, Dho633, Dho634, Dho635, Dho636,
Dho637, Dho639, Dho640, Dho641, Dho642, Dho643, Dho644, Dho645, Dho646,
Dho647, Dho648, SaU068, SaU069, SaU070, SaU071, SaU072, SaU073, SaU074,
SaU075, SaU076, SaU078, Dho485, HaH280, HaH285, HaH286...

VERY extremely necessarily best documented. The finder noted the exact
geographical coordinates, exact find weight, exact find date, exact number
of stones, all proper classified with shock stage, weathering grade, exact
weight of type specimen.

NO 20 greed-numbers for the very same material, NO pairings, NO
tkw-sale-gimmicks, NO surprise on the next fair, where suddenly 40kg are
more around, NO uncles in Morocco, who have another ton in stock, NO
dangerous expeditions reports to and NO "found"  in Morocco" (gosh two
thirds of my collectors think, that Rissani or Erfoud is something similar
like an antarctic icefield), NO Evil Knevil, who starts on ebay selling that
number, because he was told, that the similar looking stones are the same
material, NONON!

Uuuuh how should I exress myself, help me coin collectors on the list! It's
the same as Martin would go on a flea market and find a crusty roman coin.
He says: Wow real roman!! And gives the seller 20 bucks. The coin is
authentic, but one of the most minted Constantines and of so bad degree, so
that no numismacist, would give even a penny for it.
On the scala of collector's value the NWAs are on the lowest step, that's
what a beginning collector HAS to know.

And nobody honours the efforts of a finder, who acribically documents his
finds! They are all crazy about that NWA stuff and even like to buy them
rather than other, but documented, desert finds, although the have the same
price!

The mentioned numbers ARE AVAILABLE THROUGH METEORITE-MARTIN !!!

Good night.
Martin





- Original Message - 
From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bernhard Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Dhofar 010, 020, 007..
> Not necessarily better documentation, just exemption from the pairing
> demands on NWA.
>
> Rob Wesel
> --
> We are the music makers...
> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Bernhard Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'almitt'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:45 PM
> Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> This is an ongoing discussion between Martin and me :-)
>
> Martin is totally right: The meteorites from Oman and the ones from Dar
> Al Gani are much better documented. He's always wondering why I am so
> fond of the NWA's and disregard the Dhofars, Dags and HaHs.
>
> Well, actually, I don't :-). I have some of them, even main masses. But
> yes, I am a NWA junkie in some way. This isn't a rational thing. It's
> just affection in some way. Offer me a NWA number I don't have, and I'll
> most probably buy it, whether it is classified or not. That's the
> irrational part of my addiction, and I am not ashame for it.
>
> And he calls me Bernd just because we are in love *g*.
>
> Bernhard
>
>
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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AW: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Norbert Classen

Hi Rob, and All,

Wow, you really know what's going on. Most of the Dhofar, SaU, DaG,
and HaH finds are documented, i.e., we have the exact find locations
and find circumstances on record, published in the Meteoritical
Bulletin, and these data can be accessed by anyone who has the desire
to do so. This is also true for a few selected NWA meteorites, but
most of these lack proper documentation for obvious reasons. And a
lack of proper documentation, i.e. exact find locations makes it
really hard to say which meteorites may be paired or not. Dou you
see the difference?

Hey, and there are no other "demands" on the meteorites from Oman,
Libya, or other desert areas compared to the demands on NWAs - their
pairing is mostly established by scientists, at least for the rare
classes. Several of the meteorite hunters that go to Oman, or Libya
are scientists, or even seasoned meteoriticists, and they are doing
an excellent job in the field, and in the lab. Please don't disregard
this by simple, and misleading statements. Thanks.

Best,
Norbert

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>
> Dhofar 010, 020, 007..
> Not necessarily better documentation, just exemption from the pairing
> demands on NWA.
>
> Rob Wesel
> --
> We are the music makers...
> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
>
>

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[meteorite-list] dhofar main masses

2004-09-23 Thread Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!

It is nice to know that the 20 DHOFAR MAIN MASSES that I have in my
collection are not paired to anything.There is something to be said about
collecting chondrites.And to make it real nice, they all have
documentation.

 steve arnold, chicago, usa!

=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 
Illinois Meteorites 
website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/
 
 









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[meteorite-list] Genesis Mission Status Report - September 23, 2004

2004-09-23 Thread Ron Baalke



MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE
JET PROPULSION LABORATORY
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
PASADENA, CALIF. 91109   TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov

DC Agle  (818) 393-9011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

Donald Savage  (202) 358-1547
NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C.

Bill Jeffs  (281) 483-5035
Johnson Space Center, Houston

NEWS RELEASE: 2004-236

Genesis Mission Status Report
September 23, 2004

The Genesis team has shipped its first scientific sample from the
mission's specially constructed cleanroom at the U.S. Army Proving
Ground in Dugway, Utah. The sample, containing what are known as "lid
foils," was attached to the interior lid of the Genesis sample return
capsule.

"This is the first batch in what we are growing more confident will be
many more scientifically valuable samples," said Genesis Project
Manager Don Sweetnam of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena,
Calif. "It appears that we have recovered about 75 to 80 percent of
these lid foils. A great deal of credit has to go to the dedicated men
and women of Genesis who continue to do very precise, detailed work
out there in the Utah desert."

After the sample was shipped from Utah, it was received by Genesis
co-investigator Nishizumi Kunihiko from the University of California,
Berkeley, Space Sciences Laboratory.

In addition to the lid foils, there was optimistic news about the
collector array.  Team members from JPL arrived in Utah on Monday
with a special fixture to aid in handling the science canister's stack
of four collector arrays. The stack was successfully removed as one
piece. With the stack on the fixture, the team has begun the process
of disassembling the arrays. Several large pieces of individual
collector materials, including one completely intact hexagon, were
recovered from the top array.

The Genesis cleanroom activities are focused on getting the materials
ready for shipping.  A date has not yet been selected for
transporting the Genesis science canister and recovered collector
materials from Dugway to NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston. The
team continues its meticulous work and believes that a significant
repository of solar wind materials has survived that will keep the
science community busy working on their science objectives.

News and information about Genesis is available online at 

http://www.nasa.gov/genesis . 

For background information about Genesis, visit 

http://genesismission.jpl.nasa.gov . 

For information about NASA visit http://www.nasa.gov . 

-end-


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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Dhofar 010, 020, 007..
Not necessarily better documentation, just exemption from the pairing
demands on NWA.

Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971



- Original Message - 
From: "Bernhard Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'almitt'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:45 PM
Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


This is an ongoing discussion between Martin and me :-)

Martin is totally right: The meteorites from Oman and the ones from Dar
Al Gani are much better documented. He's always wondering why I am so
fond of the NWA's and disregard the Dhofars, Dags and HaHs.

Well, actually, I don't :-). I have some of them, even main masses. But
yes, I am a NWA junkie in some way. This isn't a rational thing. It's
just affection in some way. Offer me a NWA number I don't have, and I'll
most probably buy it, whether it is classified or not. That's the
irrational part of my addiction, and I am not ashame for it.

And he calls me Bernd just because we are in love *g*.

Bernhard



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AW: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Bernhard Rems

This is an ongoing discussion between Martin and me :-)

Martin is totally right: The meteorites from Oman and the ones from Dar
Al Gani are much better documented. He's always wondering why I am so
fond of the NWA's and disregard the Dhofars, Dags and HaHs.

Well, actually, I don't :-). I have some of them, even main masses. But
yes, I am a NWA junkie in some way. This isn't a rational thing. It's
just affection in some way. Offer me a NWA number I don't have, and I'll
most probably buy it, whether it is classified or not. That's the
irrational part of my addiction, and I am not ashame for it.

And he calls me Bernd just because we are in love *g*.

Bernhard

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: almitt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. September 2004 23:32
An: Martin Altmann
Cc: "Bernhard \"Rendelius\" Rems"; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Hi Martin and all,

Bernhard \"Rendelius\" Rem goes by the name of Bernhard and is NOT Bernd
Pauli
who supplies us with all the statistical data we all appreciate.
Bernhard does
have a nice website that a number of people have supported by sharing
info with
him from this list.

I just want people to know there are two different people out there for
both
posters sake and the people on the list who I have wondered know the
difference.
Best to all.

Martin Altmann wrote:

> But Bernd... just take the better documented Oman finds or the DaGs.

--AL


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Re: [meteorite-list] metal detectors

2004-09-23 Thread goldmaster

Hi John and List

Most quality VLF gold machines will do the job of hearing the low iron
chondrites . The older model goldmasters are my favorite because the box is
removable from the wand . Which makes the load on your arm much easier for a
long day of hunting . The GM4 and GMT have a touch pad and meters which are
just extra weight and most the box is not removable . The gold bug 2 is far
more sensitive than the original gold bug . There are several machines that
are auto ground balancing or ground tracking and are useless unless they
have a manual ground balance mode .You might hear a low iron chondrite on
the first or second sweep but the machine will track it out . Another tip if
your hunting a particular field take a piece of that meteorite as a test
piece to the hunt sight . Then you can ground balance and put the test piece
on the ground and listen closely to the sounds your machine is making on it
. It will more than likely be a more suttle sound to other trash targets
that's left by those before !! If I were stranded on a desert island and had
to find meteorites to trade for coconuts my detector of choice would be in
this order .
GM3
GM Vsat
GM2
GM4
GMT
Gold bug 2
Gold bug (original)

Then I would hope Santa Claus would bring me a big  eliptical mono coil for
chistmas so I could get even more coconuts !!
Happy Huntin John Blennert
- Original Message -
From: "JKG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "meteoriteshow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] metal detectors


> Several List members use White's Goldmaster series detectors with great
> success.  The current model is the GMT with is very similar to the
previous
> model, the Goldmaster 4.  Previous models were the Goldmaster 2,
Goldmaster
> 3 and the Goldmaster VSAT.  All are good units to hunt for all types of
> meteorites.  The Goldmaster 3 has some features that have made it a very
> popular detector with meteorites hunters.
>
> Other meteorite hunters I know use the Fisher detectors - the Gold Bug and
> Gold Bug II.  One List member from up in Mohave County has used a Gold Bug
> to find LOTS of meteorites so I know that it can be a good producer in the
> right hands.
>
> Both the White and Fisher detectors are available from time to time on
> Ebay.  Make sure you get a guarantee that the unit will work properly and
> that you can get your money back if there's a problem.
>
> Just one final thought.  Get someone that is experienced in using a metal
> detector for hunting meteorites to show you how to use the machine
> properly.  Nothing can be more frustrating that finding out at the end of
a
> long day of "beeping" that you had the unit set up wrong!
>
> Best,
>
> JKG
>
> At 01:51 AM 9/23/2004, meteoriteshow wrote:
> >Hello,
> >
> >I'm looking for a metal detector that can be suitable for meteorite
hunting
> >and able to detect chondrites as well as iron rich meteorites. I've
already
> >looked at several types, but it's difficult for me to get a clear idea
about
> >it, as I do not wish to invest too much in this equipment...
> >I've seen the following type, maybe someone has tried it already and can
> >tell me if it's good or not:
> >
> >- Allround metal detector
> >weight: 1,1 kg
> >total length: 57 - 88 cm
> >disc diameter: 17 cm
> >power: 6 x 1,5 V R6
> >headphones plug: 3,5 mm
> >detection down to 60 cm deep for big itms and down to 12 cm deep for
coins
> >wiring: interior
> >
> >If anyone gets a metal detector that is suitable for my need and in good
> >condition, either for sale or for trade, you can contact me via my
private
> >e-mail.
> >
> >Thanks in advance for your help!
> >
> >Frederic Beroud
> >www.meteoriteshow.com
> >IMCA #2491
> >
> >
> >__
> >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread almitt

Hi Martin and all,

Bernhard \"Rendelius\" Rem goes by the name of Bernhard and is NOT Bernd Pauli
who supplies us with all the statistical data we all appreciate. Bernhard does
have a nice website that a number of people have supported by sharing info with
him from this list.

I just want people to know there are two different people out there for both
posters sake and the people on the list who I have wondered know the difference.
Best to all.

Martin Altmann wrote:

> But Bernd... just take the better documented Oman finds or the DaGs.

--AL

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Re: [meteorite-list] metal detectors

2004-09-23 Thread moni waiblinger-seabridge

Hi All,
I remember this site, you might find some more info on it.
http://members.aol.com/whiteriverlabs/shootout.html
Sternengruss, Moni
From: JKG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "meteoriteshow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Meteorite List" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] metal detectors
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:30:18 -0700

Several List members use White's Goldmaster series detectors with great 
success.  The current model is the GMT with is very similar to the previous 
model, the Goldmaster 4.  Previous models were the Goldmaster 2, Goldmaster 
3 and the Goldmaster VSAT.  All are good units to hunt for all types of 
meteorites.  The Goldmaster 3 has some features that have made it a very 
popular detector with meteorites hunters.

Other meteorite hunters I know use the Fisher detectors - the Gold Bug and 
Gold Bug II.  One List member from up in Mohave County has used a Gold Bug 
to find LOTS of meteorites so I know that it can be a good producer in the 
right hands.

Both the White and Fisher detectors are available from time to time on 
Ebay.  Make sure you get a guarantee that the unit will work properly and 
that you can get your money back if there's a problem.

Just one final thought.  Get someone that is experienced in using a metal 
detector for hunting meteorites to show you how to use the machine 
properly.  Nothing can be more frustrating that finding out at the end of a 
long day of "beeping" that you had the unit set up wrong!

Best,
JKG
At 01:51 AM 9/23/2004, meteoriteshow wrote:
Hello,
I'm looking for a metal detector that can be suitable for meteorite 
hunting
and able to detect chondrites as well as iron rich meteorites. I've 
already
looked at several types, but it's difficult for me to get a clear idea 
about
it, as I do not wish to invest too much in this equipment...
I've seen the following type, maybe someone has tried it already and can
tell me if it's good or not:

- Allround metal detector
weight: 1,1 kg
total length: 57 - 88 cm
disc diameter: 17 cm
power: 6 x 1,5 V R6
headphones plug: 3,5 mm
detection down to 60 cm deep for big itms and down to 12 cm deep for coins
wiring: interior
If anyone gets a metal detector that is suitable for my need and in good
condition, either for sale or for trade, you can contact me via my private
e-mail.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Frederic Beroud
www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA #2491
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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Adam Hupe

Hi Mike and List,

This seems to be a very touchy subject so I will address it in general.  I
feel that if a pairing is suspected the following should happen:

A proper sized specimen should be liberated from the suspected pairing.

The primary or secondary type specimen should be submitted to an authorized
laboratory.  The reason I use the term primary or secondary is because a
pairing has not yet been established.

A NomCom approved scientist should then submit classification data for
consideration.  If a pairing is suspected this should be included in the
data.

And finally, it should be voted on to make it official.

We submit a sample from almost every suspected achondrite unless found in
fragmental form.  Several unpaired and rare specimens have come from
sticking to this standard.  A few examples are:

A stone thought to be a Howardite turned out to be a much rarer Polymict
Diogenite (NWA 1648). A Howardite was found mixed into a batch of NWA 1109
(Polymict Eucrite).  The examples go on and on.  If somebody is not willing
to submit examples for study they should make it clear that their specimens
are unofficial.

All the best,



Adam Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Ok Adam,. I can accept this from you, sounds clear enough,  but what about
> the many kilos of it being sold in Denver by Thompson? What do you
suggest?
> Mike Farmer
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > Hi List,
> >
> > Many will be glad to hear meetings were held in Denver to discuss these
> very
> > issues.  As I already stated in our auctions and on the List, a
secondary
> > type specimen was submitted and determined to be paired with NWA 1929 by
> the
> > same laboratory (NAU).  NWA 1929 was still in provisional status at that
> > time so more weight could be added.  The same scientist determined that
> NWA
> > 1929 was unique enough that there was no question of a pairing and using
> the
> > provisional name NWA 1929 was alright in this case because type
specimens
> > were provided. As we also made very clear from the beginning, we
requested
> a
> > different number and will see if the NomCom adds the weight or uses a
new
> > number already reserved.  Everything is by the books, a type specimen
was
> > provided, a NomCom recognized laboratory was hired to study the piece, a
> > scientific report was submitted and a provisional NWA number was
assigned.
> > There is no double standard here.
> >
> > The question about what is being done by the IMCA about NWA 1110 and NWA
> > 1877 is simple to answer.  There is nothing they can do because the
> > offending party is not an IMCA member and has no standards or ethics to
be
> > concerned with.  What we are doing about is a completely different
matter
> > that will be discussed sometime in the future.
> >
> > Things are going to change greatly over the next year.  Some will enjoy
> the
> > changes and others will resist, that's life.
> >
> > You only live life once so there is no time for a rehearsal, do the best
> you
> > can now,
> >
> > 
> > Adam Hupe
> > The Hupe Collection
> > Team LunarRock
> > IMCA 2185
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>


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Re: [meteorite-list] Howardite Blow Out

OK, please allow me to change the description from PAIRED to "Likely
Paired", as deemed acceptable in Mr. Grossman's email last week:

" It is acceptable and routine, however, for people to make statements
indicating that various numbered stones may be paired (although I would be
cautious about believing such statements unless they appear in the Bulletin
or other scientific publications)."

I did, in fact, acquire these from Edwin Thompson and pieces have been
donated to Cascadia Meteorite Lab. Edwin is out of town and I don't know if
official pairing has been done, or will be, by Cascadia.

It has been clearly, and rationally, discussed today that:

1) There is always more material out there that gets trickled out through
Berbers finding more or middlemen holding back.

2) No lab is going to classify every piece that trickles out.

3) NWA naming is going to be a mess for a very long time as supply exceeds
demand. NWA 801, 859, 869, 1929, 1866, 1877.


Even with 1110 we run into the fact that only a few of them went through
appropriate testing to prove a planetary origin, the rest were analyzed on
sight.

Sorry for the confusion in using "paired", likely paired it is.  Not sorry
for reopening the worms though, visual pairing is common practice in every
other geographical location save for Antarctica and the fact that NWA, the
most prolific meteorite source of our day, is the only area constrained by
this convention leaves far more questions than answers. For now, if the
NomCom is OK with "likely paired" then so am I and I should have used that
wording from the start.

Please note, that the material soon to be on my website is fully classified.



Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Michael L Blood

on 9/23/04 7:58 AM, Michael Farmer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I also have felt that way, but love for the
> meteorites themselves keeps me sane.

Michael,
Perhaps you need A LOT MORE meteorites!
Best wishes, Michael
   
 
PS: (good natured kidding here, folks, don't
go ballistic on me)
 



 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Ok Adam,. I can accept this from you, sounds clear enough,  but what about
the many kilos of it being sold in Denver by Thompson? What do you suggest?
Mike Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Hi List,
>
> Many will be glad to hear meetings were held in Denver to discuss these
very
> issues.  As I already stated in our auctions and on the List, a secondary
> type specimen was submitted and determined to be paired with NWA 1929 by
the
> same laboratory (NAU).  NWA 1929 was still in provisional status at that
> time so more weight could be added.  The same scientist determined that
NWA
> 1929 was unique enough that there was no question of a pairing and using
the
> provisional name NWA 1929 was alright in this case because type specimens
> were provided. As we also made very clear from the beginning, we requested
a
> different number and will see if the NomCom adds the weight or uses a new
> number already reserved.  Everything is by the books, a type specimen was
> provided, a NomCom recognized laboratory was hired to study the piece, a
> scientific report was submitted and a provisional NWA number was assigned.
> There is no double standard here.
>
> The question about what is being done by the IMCA about NWA 1110 and NWA
> 1877 is simple to answer.  There is nothing they can do because the
> offending party is not an IMCA member and has no standards or ethics to be
> concerned with.  What we are doing about is a completely different matter
> that will be discussed sometime in the future.
>
> Things are going to change greatly over the next year.  Some will enjoy
the
> changes and others will resist, that's life.
>
> You only live life once so there is no time for a rehearsal, do the best
you
> can now,
>
> 
> Adam Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> Team LunarRock
> IMCA 2185
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


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[meteorite-list] RE: Naming problems

A great statement !

>>> Calcalong Creek was obviously a Millbillillie until it was cut. So how
can these uncut stones be obviously NWA 1929. <<<

this sentence describes exactly the point of the discussion.

Bravo Mike !


Cheers,

Christian


IMCA #2673
www.austromet.com
 
Christian Anger
Korngasse 6
2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg
AUSTRIA
 
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Farmer
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:36 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Naming problems

Hi, again, I am not starting any smack here, not attacking Adam, but let's
be clear, he tore Bob Evans a new A-hole about the Martian, and left no
leeway to allow him to even claim possibly paired with his stone.
Now, look at this auction
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2272049926
It is a thin section, and please tell us what it says at the top on the thin
section. It is labeled NWA 1929.
Now you cannot hold Bob Evans to one standard, and then practice another.
The fact tht Adam say's that he got more paired stones, and is trying to get
a new name, does not change the fact that the thin section and his auction
title is labeled NWA 1929.
This was not about Adam anyway, Rob Wesel and Edwin Thompson I heard had
many kilos of stones in Denver and called them all NWA 1929.
Most were uncut, so I want to know how they know they are NWA 1929?
I dont have one gram of that meteorite left, so it really does me no good or
harm either way, but I read 30 emails about Legal action against Bob Evans
for what other people are doing themselves.
I dont want any fight here, and none has occured, we are having a great and
usefull discussion on this topic, and perhaps some good will come of it.
But everyone can see the simple truth here, that standards are being
demanded from people but not followed by the people making those demands.

Let's get this cleared up.
Calcalong Creek was obviously a Millbillillie until it was cut. So how can
these uncut stones be obviously NWA 1929.

Mike Farmer




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RE: [meteorite-list] NomCom & IMCA, and "Triple M Pecans"

2004-09-23 Thread Matson, Robert

Hi Doug and List,

Like Doug said, it sure didn't take long to dredge up this tired
issue again.  (But Doug, I *loved* your post today!  A breath of
fresh air, or perhaps more properly, a roomfull of fresh air given
its length... ;-)  I wonder how many posts would be left in our
archives if you filtered out the ones containing the acronym NWA?
Whoops -- one more...  --Rob
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[meteorite-list] RE: Naming problems

A great statement !

>>> Calcalong Creek was obviously a Millbillillie until it was cut. So how
can these uncut stones be obviously NWA 1929. <<<

this sentence describes exactly the point of the discussion.

Bravo Mike !


Cheers,

Christian


IMCA #2673
www.austromet.com
 
Christian Anger
Korngasse 6
2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg
AUSTRIA
 
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Farmer
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:36 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Naming problems

Hi, again, I am not starting any smack here, not attacking Adam, but let's
be clear, he tore Bob Evans a new A-hole about the Martian, and left no
leeway to allow him to even claim possibly paired with his stone.
Now, look at this auction
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2272049926
It is a thin section, and please tell us what it says at the top on the thin
section. It is labeled NWA 1929.
Now you cannot hold Bob Evans to one standard, and then practice another.
The fact tht Adam say's that he got more paired stones, and is trying to get
a new name, does not change the fact that the thin section and his auction
title is labeled NWA 1929.
This was not about Adam anyway, Rob Wesel and Edwin Thompson I heard had
many kilos of stones in Denver and called them all NWA 1929.
Most were uncut, so I want to know how they know they are NWA 1929?
I dont have one gram of that meteorite left, so it really does me no good or
harm either way, but I read 30 emails about Legal action against Bob Evans
for what other people are doing themselves.
I dont want any fight here, and none has occured, we are having a great and
usefull discussion on this topic, and perhaps some good will come of it.
But everyone can see the simple truth here, that standards are being
demanded from people but not followed by the people making those demands.

Let's get this cleared up.
Calcalong Creek was obviously a Millbillillie until it was cut. So how can
these uncut stones be obviously NWA 1929.

Mike Farmer




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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Adam Hupe

Hi List,

Many will be glad to hear meetings were held in Denver to discuss these very
issues.  As I already stated in our auctions and on the List, a secondary
type specimen was submitted and determined to be paired with NWA 1929 by the
same laboratory (NAU).  NWA 1929 was still in provisional status at that
time so more weight could be added.  The same scientist determined that NWA
1929 was unique enough that there was no question of a pairing and using the
provisional name NWA 1929 was alright in this case because type specimens
were provided. As we also made very clear from the beginning, we requested a
different number and will see if the NomCom adds the weight or uses a new
number already reserved.  Everything is by the books, a type specimen was
provided, a NomCom recognized laboratory was hired to study the piece, a
scientific report was submitted and a provisional NWA number was assigned.
There is no double standard here.

The question about what is being done by the IMCA about NWA 1110 and NWA
1877 is simple to answer.  There is nothing they can do because the
offending party is not an IMCA member and has no standards or ethics to be
concerned with.  What we are doing about is a completely different matter
that will be discussed sometime in the future.

Things are going to change greatly over the next year.  Some will enjoy the
changes and others will resist, that's life.

You only live life once so there is no time for a rehearsal, do the best you
can now,


Adam Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[meteorite-list] RE: Naming problems

A great statement !

>>> Calcalong Creek was obviously a Millbillillie until it was cut. So how
can these uncut stones be obviously NWA 1929. <<<

this sentence describes exactly the point of the discussion.

Bravo Mike !


Cheers,

Christian


IMCA #2673
www.austromet.com
 
Christian Anger
Korngasse 6
2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg
AUSTRIA
 
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Farmer
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:36 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Naming problems

Hi, again, I am not starting any smack here, not attacking Adam, but let's
be clear, he tore Bob Evans a new A-hole about the Martian, and left no
leeway to allow him to even claim possibly paired with his stone.
Now, look at this auction
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2272049926
It is a thin section, and please tell us what it says at the top on the thin
section. It is labeled NWA 1929.
Now you cannot hold Bob Evans to one standard, and then practice another.
The fact tht Adam say's that he got more paired stones, and is trying to get
a new name, does not change the fact that the thin section and his auction
title is labeled NWA 1929.
This was not about Adam anyway, Rob Wesel and Edwin Thompson I heard had
many kilos of stones in Denver and called them all NWA 1929.
Most were uncut, so I want to know how they know they are NWA 1929?
I dont have one gram of that meteorite left, so it really does me no good or
harm either way, but I read 30 emails about Legal action against Bob Evans
for what other people are doing themselves.
I dont want any fight here, and none has occured, we are having a great and
usefull discussion on this topic, and perhaps some good will come of it.
But everyone can see the simple truth here, that standards are being
demanded from people but not followed by the people making those demands.

Let's get this cleared up.
Calcalong Creek was obviously a Millbillillie until it was cut. So how can
these uncut stones be obviously NWA 1929.

Mike Farmer




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[meteorite-list] Sonic Boom in England From Fighter Plane

2004-09-23 Thread Ron Baalke

http://icnorthwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/regionalnews/tm_objectid=14675100&method=full&siteid=50142&headline=that-was-no-quake---it-was-a-typhoon-name_page.html

That was no quake - it was a Typhoon
By Matt Withers
Daily Post (England)
September 23, 2004

A FIGHTER plane being flown at supersonic speeds over the Irish coast
caused a huge bang, when it broke the sound barrier, sending North Wales
homeowners scurrying for cover.

Windows and homes shook in parts of Denbighshire and Conwy, and North
Wales Police received countless calls from panicking residents who
thought there had been an earthquake.

The boom was caused by a Typhoon Eurofighter being tested over the sea
after setting off from its base at BAe Systems headquarters at Warton,
near Preston.

But a spokeswoman stressed the weather had caused the bang and the plane
had not ventured inland in contravention of aviation laws.

She said: "We believe it was one of our aircraft that made the noise,
but it was in a designated testing area about 20 miles out from the
coast, basically on a routine test.

"It happens all the time. However, the weather conditions meant the
sound carried further than it would usually.

"It's not out of the ordinary, but the wind would have meant that people
might have felt or heard it this time."

The loud bang was heard at around 5.50pm on Tuesday from as far afield
as Rhyl in the east to Conwy in the west, and several miles inland.

Glenn Ford at the British Geological Survey said the organisation had
received numerous reports of the huge noise.

He said: "We've got quite a lot of history of this type of event.

"From the effects - doors and windows rattling, that kind of thing -
small earthquakes and sonic booms can get confused.

"The pressure waves continue until it releases its energy by hitting
something, for example the coast.

"It would have to have been fairly significant in UK terms to cause the
disturbances that people are report-ing."

Mr Ford said a similar effect could be caused by a small meteorite or
satellite breaking up, both of which could travel at supersonic speeds.

Last week people living in Llandrindod Wells in Powys reported a similar
incident.

Windows and homes shook in the town when the noise rang out at last
Wednesday. Worried residents thought they were in the middle of a
mini-earthquake and called the police and the RAF.

Powys Council's headquarters was one of the buildings where the bang was
heard and workers reported that windows shook.

Caused by air-pressure waves

A SONIC boom is an impulsive noise similar to thunder. It is caused by
an object moving faster than sound - about 750mph at sea level.

An aircraft travelling through the atmosphere continuously produces
air-pressure waves, similar to the water waves caused by a ship's bow.

When the aircraft exceeds the speed of sound, these pressure waves
combine and form shock waves, which travel forward from the generation
or "release" point.. As an aircraft flies at supersonic speeds, it is
continually generating shock waves, dropping sonic boom along its flight
path.

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[meteorite-list] Jupiter Drifted Towards Sun In Its Youth

2004-09-23 Thread Ron Baalke



http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns6432

Jupiter drifted towards sun in its youth
Hazel Muir
New Scientist
22 September 2004
 
Jupiter, the king of planets in the solar system, drifted tens of
millions of kilometres towards the sun in its youth, a new study
suggests. Jupiter's migration could even have helped to form the Earth.

The idea that planets migrate towards their stars has received
considerable attention over the past decade, thanks to the discovery of
around a hundred planetary systems besides our own. Most contain "hot
Jupiters" - gas giants that sometimes orbit closer to their stars than
Mercury is to the Sun.

Astronomers believe these giants formed in the cold outskirts of their
systems but moved inwards as they lost angular momentum due to drag
within the dusty disc that surrounds a young star.

Clearly, such a dramatic migration did not happen in our system, where
all the giant planets like Jupiter are relatively far away from the Sun.
But now scientists say they have the first direct evidence that Jupiter
did migrate inwards, albeit to a lesser degree than the hot Jupiters.

Jupiter and the Hilda asteroids

The evidence comes from a curious group of 700 or so rocky chunks called
the Hilda asteroids, which orbit the Sun three times for every two
Jovian years. The vast majority of these have slightly elongated
elliptical orbits (see graphic, below, and animation
), whereas many
other asteroids have near-circular orbits.

According to Fred Franklin's team at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for
Astrophysics in Cambridge, Massachusetts, a migrating Jupiter could
explain why so few Hilda asteroids have circular orbits.

Their simulations show that if a young Jupiter had orbited about 10%
farther from the Sun than it is now, and then spiralled in by about 70
million kilometres over a period of 100,000 years or more, its gravity
would have ejected any proto-Hilda asteroids with circular orbits from
the solar system. And it would have further elongated the orbits of
those that remained.

Luckily for us, Jupiter did not spiral in too far, as other hot Jupiters
apparently did, possibly because the dusty disc around the young sun was
relatively thin. "Had Jupiter migrated all the way in to, say, where
Mercury lies, it would have done some very nasty things to the Earth,"
Franklin says.  "We probably wouldn't be here."

Phil Armitage who studies planet formation at the University of Colorado
in Boulder says, "This is the first clear evidence I've seen for the
migration of Jupiter." He adds that Jupiter's short trek could have
disturbed the gravity of the bodies of the inner solar system so that
they collided more frequently, spurring the formation and growth of our
own Earth.

Journal reference: The Astronomical Journal (vol 128, p 1391)

   
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[meteorite-list] Naming problems

Hi, again, I am not starting any smack here, not attacking Adam, but let's
be clear, he tore Bob Evans a new A-hole about the Martian, and left no
leeway to allow him to even claim possibly paired with his stone.
Now, look at this auction
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2272049926
It is a thin section, and please tell us what it says at the top on the thin
section. It is labeled NWA 1929.
Now you cannot hold Bob Evans to one standard, and then practice another.
The fact tht Adam say's that he got more paired stones, and is trying to get
a new name, does not change the fact that the thin section and his auction
title is labeled NWA 1929.
This was not about Adam anyway, Rob Wesel and Edwin Thompson I heard had
many kilos of stones in Denver and called them all NWA 1929.
Most were uncut, so I want to know how they know they are NWA 1929?
I dont have one gram of that meteorite left, so it really does me no good or
harm either way, but I read 30 emails about Legal action against Bob Evans
for what other people are doing themselves.
I dont want any fight here, and none has occured, we are having a great and
usefull discussion on this topic, and perhaps some good will come of it.
But everyone can see the simple truth here, that standards are being
demanded from people but not followed by the people making those demands.

Let's get this cleared up.
Calcalong Creek was obviously a Millbillillie until it was cut. So how can
these uncut stones be obviously NWA 1929.

Mike Farmer




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[meteorite-list] Howardite Blow Out - what a shame

Yeaaahhh,

now the things that I have been awaiting (since the last year) is going to
be reality. 

Market slows down and the QUIET RESERVES are opening.

Many, many, many collectors have been faked with "low TKW" of most of the
rare classification meteorites from NWA. As I posted to the list some months
ago regarding the famous "olivine diogenites" that were showing up the last
year and still are showing up. 

How strange that one olivine diogenite followed the other in short time
periods ( or howardites like NWA 1929 or twisted sisters etc...)

Or mesosiderites - regarding to an abstract of the MAPS Supplement 2004
August "Two large mesosiderites : NWA 1817/1878/1979/2042 and NWA
1827/1879/1882/1912/1951/1982/3055" by Wittke, Bunch , Irving and Kuehner.

How many scientific resources have been misused to classify one and the same
meteorite 4 or up to 7 times !!! What a waste of public money. What a waste
of time for scientists.

Now most of the collectors noticed what happened the last years and like me,
they feel faked. I am waiting for the next "rare meteorites" that will show
up in near future - maybe a bulk of desert lodranites, brachinites,
shergottites or something else "sensational new materials".
I am wondering about there's now new NWA 011 like meteorite ?
Come on, open your stocks and let us know how much of each "rare one" does
really exist.

My advice to new collectors: Don't buy fast - have patience - a year or
more. You can get everything for a fraction of the original price.
Check out Michael Blood's Market Trends and watch the common times.

Cheers to Martin Altmann (hope to meet you again in Munich) and many other
collecting friends which made the same experiences in the last year.

Awaiting Munich and guessing how much kilos of all the "rarities" are
showing up there,

Christian
 


IMCA #2673
www.austromet.com
 
Christian Anger
Korngasse 6
2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg
AUSTRIA
 
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin
Altmann
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 5:35 PM
To: Michael Farmer; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

It's easy to handle.
First we open a new numbers series and call the NWA "BMA" - Bought Meteorite
of Africa.
Second the Hupes, you, Matteo, Bessey and other twisted sisters organize a
foundation together with the IMCA, asking from each seller, who dares to
sell such a desert baby, a sample for the thin section and 5% from the
selling price
and with this funds there will be 2 or 3 poor mineralogists employed, for
doing nothing else than to find out the pairings
and voila in 30 years those Humpty-Dumptys are all set together again,
ready to recieve their NWA number.

Again prosit!
Martin



- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
> meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do
costs
> a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while building
my
> collection.
> This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really
know
> how to do it. I
> Mike Farmer

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[meteorite-list] NomCom & IMCA, and "Triple M Pecans"

2004-09-23 Thread MexicoDoug

It didn't take long to revisit this issue.  I don't think it is more than 
philosophical to debate it in the list context, but it has definitly been a useful 
exercise for those interested acquiring resold NWA pieces.  It is a sickening subject 
being born from wicked commercialism.

Understandably, Mark Ford and JKG are quick to prod NomCom into action as if NomCom 
had some sort of responsibility to solve problems showing up at local and virtual flea 
markets.

For what it's worth, the President of NomCom is way ahead of us and has already done 
the list a kind favor by telling us what is going on (I say kind favor, not because 
they are proincipally an ivory tower group, on the contrary, simply because he took a 
personal interest to clarify this on a list where rabid commercialism twists some of 
the nicest people to insult.  I don't see any political interests on Jeff's part, 
especially in light of the balanced comments he provided.  Regarding the JKG/Mark Ford 
point his comment:


"The Committee is considering a new rule that would allow a new NWA stone to be paired 
with NWA 1110.  Under this rule, the new stone would have to be given a provisional 
NWA number of its own, NWA .  It would have to be characterized by an expert, who 
would have to submit the evidence for pairing to the NomCom.  If accepted, and if the 
type specimen requirement based on the aggregate mass has been satisfied, we would 
announce that NWA  was paired with NWA 1110, thereby increasing the TKW by a 
certain amount.  NWA  would become an official synonym for NWA 1110.  This rule 
has not yet been adopted (it was open for public comment in the early summer)."

So from my point of view, NomCom is is doing a superb job whether it is intentional or 
by chance.  Congratulations ten times over to them.

But what about IMCA?  Bernhard has a direct bullseye in his comment here.  This has 
also been my question, so maybe I'm biased, let my bias be judged.  IMCA had 
absolutely nothing to say during the last blow-up with Bob and Adam, although I asked 
them onlist to DO SOMETHING.  One consciencious IMCA director responded but only 
speaking his own mind.  But IMCA chose to be mum.

What good is such a mute IMCA organization?  Is Ken quickly going after fakes all 
there is to IMCA?  O, yeah, and dues collection for collectors to finance dealer 
logos?  IMCA is squandering a perfect opportunity to rock the boat and prove itself 
fairhanded and a collector's organization concerned with authenticity.  As of now, it 
is doing a Clinton hiding between definitions and avoiding facing the music.

And speaking of people who have recognized IMCA for what it is doing now in the past,, 
Mike Farmer just got in a good joke, at least in my opinion:
"This isn't directed at Adam, but The Hupes ADAMANTLY fighting" refering to the Bob 
Evan's incursion.  Mike isn't shy about criticizing Adam in the archives, that this 
new 1929 thread was almost a pleasant variation on the dealer war theme from my point 
of view.  The title of the Hupe auction is clearly NWA 1929.  But the text is so clear 
about the history of Mike's original 922 grams, and the Hupe's subsequent acquisition 
in Morocco of new stones probably paired with 1929 that anyone with an IQ and 
reasonable comprehension of English understands that the claim is for a probable 
pairing, and in addition that a NWAXXX has been applied for, and no doubt the Hupes 
plan to follow the new pairing system Jeff mentioned in the quote above, if approved.  
They state in the auction:

"Initially a single stone weighing 922 grams is all that there was of this beautiful 
and very rare meteorite.  On our last expedition we acquired three stones that are 
paired to NWA 1929 weighing a total of 2,341 grams.  We submitted dual type specimens 
and will have a new NWA serial number soon to cover these additional finds.  We are 
keeping the largest specimen weighing over half of this amount in our collection 
because it may represent a main mass leaving less than 2kg for collectors."

So how about the title of the Hupe's auction, where the word pairing is conveniently 
ommited.  My take is it's Adam's joke on you Mike for not coming to his rescue, God 
forbid that you guys actually agreed on anything on the list.  So you guys are now 
even.  The clarity of the nomenclature situation in the eBay description and naming 
process in that auction clearly goes far and above the norm educationally with useful 
data a buyer will be very happy to know.  You wouldn't want to stick the higher 
standard on Hupes, allow them to get all that abuse, and outlay of efforts and 
resources just like Mike does.  This is IMCA's fault.  Adam has got to be thinking, 
-If you can't beat 'em, join 'em".  Also, it doesn't escape me that the Hupe auction 
"discretely" mentions the possibility of a future possible OFFICIAL pairing with 1929, 
and we now know from Jeff, a corresponding increase in TKW, which could be interpreted

Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out



All of you know, researchers are not going to work on every single piece
of say 1929, that comes out of NWA.  This is a losing battle with no
easy solution.  This is the problem with NWA and it has been this way
from the beginning.  
I see it in 3 ways...
1. Enjoy the low low prices and "visual" pairings (sometimes thin
section pairings) 2. Do not buy any NWA meteorites except for pieces of
the single classified mass 3. If you buy a suspect piece, say 1929, you
can try and have it classified yourself.  Chances are the researcher
won't bother. He/she woiuld rather work on something new.  Try having 15
L6's classified.  Like pulling teeth.  Give em an achondrite and you are
good to go.

I do not see this as different than Gao, Holbrook, or any other find.
The finder cannot be 100% certain that what they found near Holbrook, is
in FACT, a HOLBROOK meteorite.  You can suppose it is by coincidence,
but it begs the question.

Its up to you. Point is, ENJOY this HOBBY folks!!! If you are collecting
type specimens, then you obviousky will want to have an official class.

Matt Morgan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Michael Farmer
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-List (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


Ken, indeed, there may be other pieces, but since Adam and Jeff Grossman
made it extremely clear last week that like the 1068 and 1110
meteorites, the name can only be used for my original piece 922 grams.
Anything thought to be paired needs to be classified and given a new
number and perhaps listed at paired with 1929. I did not participate in
last week's discussion, but I am now mad that the same people who fought
so hard, are doing exactly what they fought against. Mike Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite-List (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


>
>
> Hi Bernhard and list,
>
> Something else to bear in mind (although it may be trivial) when you
> refer to the TKW of say NWA1929 (or any other classified NWA). The 
> weight is actually the total weight not total known weight as the name

> NWA1929
refers
> to the rock Mike had classified and no other. TKW infers there may be
other
> unknown/undiscovered mass. This cannot be possible.
>
> Regards
>
> Ken
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> Sent: 23 September 2004 16:19
> To: 'Michael Farmer'
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> Michael (and others who have written to me in private),
>
> it's not making me sick that it's about money, it makes me sick that
> people do not stick to the rules (even dealers I trust don't stick to 
> the simple rules anymore).
>
> Let me tell you this: I recently bought a somewhat larger slice of NWA
> 2019 from a respected dealer. I knew the TKW, I accepted the price and

> I expected that the piece I buy is from this TKW.
>
> It seems now that the NWA 2019 I bought isn't NWA 2019, but
> "unclassified material that might quite possibly be paired to NWA 
> 2019".
>
> Now, if this discussion wouldn't take place, I would believe I have so
> and so much from the TKW of NWA 2019. I would possibly resell it in 
> the future as NWA 2019, adding to the confusion and unknowingly 
> betraying my business partner.
>
> So, to all dealers out there: if you sell a meteorite as Meteorite A
> and it is just something that is possibly paired to A, I FEEL RIPPED 
> OFF! And I don't like that feeling.
>
> Adam, what hav you done about the NWA 1110 auctions and the olivine
> diogenite you declared to be fake?
>
> What does the IMCA have to say about this matter?
>
>   _
>
> Best regards,
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
> CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
> This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Michael Farmer
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
> To: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
> Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
> meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do

> costs a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while 
> building my
> collection.
> This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really
> know
> how to do it. I
> Mike Farmer
> - Original Message -
> From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:50 AM
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > Money, you know.
> >
> > This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting t

RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

All of you know, researchers are not going to work on every single piece
of say 1929, that comes out of NWA.  This is a losing battle with no
easy solution.  This is the problem with NWA and it has been this way
from the beginning.  
I see it in 3 ways...
1. Enjoy the low low prices and "visual" pairings (sometimes thin
section pairings)
2. Do not buy any NWA meteorites except for pieces of the single
classified mass
3. If you buy a suspect piece, say 1929, you can try and have it
classified yourself.  Chances are the researcher won't bother. He/she
woiuld rather work on something new.  Try having 15 L6's classified.
Like pulling teeth.  Give em an achondrite and you are good to go.

I do not see this as different than Gao, Holbrook, or any other find.
The finder cannot be 100% certain that what they found near Holbrook, is
in FACT, a HOLBROOK meteorite.  You can suppose it is by coincidence,
but it begs the question.

Its up to you. Point is, ENJOY this HOBBY folks!!! If you are collecting
type specimens, then you obviousky will want to have an official class.

Matt Morgan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Michael Farmer
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-List (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


Ken, indeed, there may be other pieces, but since Adam and Jeff Grossman
made it extremely clear last week that like the 1068 and 1110
meteorites, the name can only be used for my original piece 922 grams.
Anything thought to be paired needs to be classified and given a new
number and perhaps listed at paired with 1929. I did not participate in
last week's discussion, but I am now mad that the same people who fought
so hard, are doing exactly what they fought against. Mike Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite-List (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


>
>
> Hi Bernhard and list,
>
> Something else to bear in mind (although it may be trivial) when you 
> refer to the TKW of say NWA1929 (or any other classified NWA). The 
> weight is actually the total weight not total known weight as the name

> NWA1929
refers
> to the rock Mike had classified and no other. TKW infers there may be
other
> unknown/undiscovered mass. This cannot be possible.
>
> Regards
>
> Ken
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of 
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> Sent: 23 September 2004 16:19
> To: 'Michael Farmer'
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> Michael (and others who have written to me in private),
>
> it's not making me sick that it's about money, it makes me sick that 
> people do not stick to the rules (even dealers I trust don't stick to 
> the simple rules anymore).
>
> Let me tell you this: I recently bought a somewhat larger slice of NWA

> 2019 from a respected dealer. I knew the TKW, I accepted the price and

> I expected that the piece I buy is from this TKW.
>
> It seems now that the NWA 2019 I bought isn't NWA 2019, but 
> "unclassified material that might quite possibly be paired to NWA 
> 2019".
>
> Now, if this discussion wouldn't take place, I would believe I have so

> and so much from the TKW of NWA 2019. I would possibly resell it in 
> the future as NWA 2019, adding to the confusion and unknowingly 
> betraying my business partner.
>
> So, to all dealers out there: if you sell a meteorite as Meteorite A 
> and it is just something that is possibly paired to A, I FEEL RIPPED 
> OFF! And I don't like that feeling.
>
> Adam, what hav you done about the NWA 1110 auctions and the olivine 
> diogenite you declared to be fake?
>
> What does the IMCA have to say about this matter?
>
>   _
>
> Best regards,
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
> CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
> This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Michael Farmer
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
> To: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
> Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the 
> meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do

> costs a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while 
> building my
> collection.
> This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really
> know
> how to do it. I
> Mike Farmer
> - Original Message -
> From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:50 AM
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > Money, you know.
> >
> > This makes me so sick lately that I think of qui

Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread McomeMeteorite Meteorite

Moroccan people ask $10/gr. for howardites, and is for the 98% all of the 
same found. The same for DaG's, if you look my DaG 669 slice

http://it.geocities.com/mcomemeteoritecollection/DaG669.JPG
and DaG 671 slice
http://it.geocities.com/mcomemeteoritecollection/DaG671.JPG
its of the same material.why no put a unique number?
Matteo

From: "Martin Altmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Martin Altmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bernhard \"Rendelius\" Rems" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:24:11 +0200

But Bernd... just take the better documented Oman finds or the DaGs.
Everybody knows now, what's going on with the NWAs and if it's disturbing,
that there is not known the place of find, the date of find and the total
known weight,
one has those Dhos, DaGs, HaHs ect. as a good alternative choice, 
especially
as they are available at the same price level as the NWAs.

Anyway - Beside, that one never will find out the pairings of the NWAs, who
could complain at this sick low prices  Remember what one had to pay 
for
achondrites 5 or 3 years ago!!!

Prosit!
Ma
- Original Message -
From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> Money, you know.
>
> This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and
> selling off my 600+ meteorites.
>
>   _
>
> Best regards,
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
> CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
>
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[meteorite-list] re: Calculating a meteorite orbit

2004-09-23 Thread Marco Langbroek

> Hello,
>
> I'm searching for an Excel program or a document
> explaining how to determine the orbit of a meteorite
> fallen on earth according to the fact that we know the
> impact point, trajectory, altitude and speed, pictures
> of the bolide.
> This technique of orbit calculation was used on Pribram,
> Lost City or Innisfree for example.

You'll find such an excel spreadsheet on my website:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek

...and then choose in the menu "my meteor related Excell-applications".
The spreadsheet in question is named "Metorb08.xls" and was written by me. If
you use it, please refer to the source by refering to the WGN paper.

- Marco

--
Dr Marco Langbroek
Dutch Meteor Society (DMS)
Leiden, the Netherlands
52.15896 N, 4.48884 E (WGS 84)

e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
DMS website: http://www.dmsweb.org
priv. website: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek
--

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WG: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Jörn Koblitz

Remember the distinction between meteorites from densely populated areas (like Dhofar, 
NWA, Dar al Gani) and the rest of the world. There is a clear distinction set forth by 
the NomCom of which procedures for naming and calculating TKWs is applicable. There 
have been numerous postings to this list to explain this procedure, recently e.g. by 
Jeff Grossman.

Cheers,
Jörn Koblitz 

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: mark ford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. September 2004 18:02
> An: Meteorite List
> Betreff: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, there are quite a few anomalies in the whole system...
> 
> 
> If the name or number given to a fall is only for the 
> specimens given in
> for analysis, how come falls like sikhote have a total known weight of
> many tons? Surley only a few kilo's where officially used for the
> classification, so if we are being strict, the total known 
> weight should
> really be the 'total classified weight', should it not?
> 
> Best
> 
> 
> Mark Ford
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: JKG [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: 23 September 2004 16:53
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-List (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> 
> This is an interesting point. The word "known" implies that 
> up to this 
> point this is what we know exists.  History has shown that addition 
> specimens of meteorites with previously published TNWs have 
> been found 
> which changes the TNW.  But remember, in the case of NWAs, the
> Meteoritical 
> Society has invoked a specific set of rules for a meteorite to be
> properly 
> recognized.  Maybe it's time for the rule makers to revisit 
> this issue.
> 
> Best,
> 
> JKG
> 
> At 08:35 AM 9/23/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> 
> >Hi Bernhard and list,
> >
> >Something else to bear in mind (although it may be trivial) when you
> refer
> >to the TKW of say NWA1929 (or any other classified NWA). The 
> weight is
> >actually the total weight not total known weight as the name NWA1929
> refers
> >to the rock Mike had classified and no other. TKW infers there may be
> other
> >unknown/undiscovered mass. This cannot be possible.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Ken
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> >Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> >Sent: 23 September 2004 16:19
> >To: 'Michael Farmer'
> >Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> >
> >
> >Michael (and others who have written to me in private),
> >
> >it's not making me sick that it's about money, it makes me sick that
> >people do not stick to the rules (even dealers I trust don't stick to
> >the simple rules anymore).
> >
> >Let me tell you this: I recently bought a somewhat larger 
> slice of NWA
> >2019 from a respected dealer. I knew the TKW, I accepted the 
> price and
> I
> >expected that the piece I buy is from this TKW.
> >
> >It seems now that the NWA 2019 I bought isn't NWA 2019, but
> >"unclassified material that might quite possibly be paired to NWA
> 2019".
> >
> >Now, if this discussion wouldn't take place, I would believe 
> I have so
> >and so much from the TKW of NWA 2019. I would possibly 
> resell it in the
> >future as NWA 2019, adding to the confusion and unknowingly betraying
> my
> >business partner.
> >
> >So, to all dealers out there: if you sell a meteorite as Meteorite A
> and
> >it is just something that is possibly paired to A, I FEEL RIPPED OFF!
> >And I don't like that feeling.
> >
> >Adam, what hav you done about the NWA 1110 auctions and the olivine
> >diogenite you declared to be fake?
> >
> >What does the IMCA have to say about this matter?
> >
> >   _
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> >
> >CEO RPGDot Network
> >
> >
> >This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> >Michael Farmer
> >Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
> >To: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> >Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> >
> >Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
> >meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the 
> travel I do
> >costs
> >a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while
> building
> >my
> >collection.
> >This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I 
> don't really
> >know
> >how to do it. I
> >Mike Farmer
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:50 AM
> >Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> >
> >
> > > Money, you know.
> > >
> > > This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting 
> this hobby and
> > > selling off my 600+ meteorites.
> > >
> > >   _
> > >
> > > Be

RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Farmer already answered this question.  The Sikhote-Alin area is very 
isolated and no other iron meteorites (to my knowledge) have been found in 
the region.  Also, the SA meteorites have some very distinct exterior 
characteristics that are seen in very few, if any, other irons.  Then 
again, nothing is 100% for sure.  There is an outside chance that a 
different iron meteorite could be found in the SA region and sold as an 
SA.  With the price of these irons down in the sub-dollar range, there 
isn't much incentive to test for a different meteorite.  The incentive 
kicks in when the price of the material is at a high enough point to 
justify test expenses for one individual specimen.

Most of us don't want to admit it, but the issue really is about 
money.  It's important to the NWA nomads all the way up to the final buyer 
and everyone in between.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't 
enjoy investing a lot of time, money and energy into a project unless I can 
be rewarded in some way.  If I want to spend my time and money not making 
more of the almighty dollar, I'll spend that time and money with my friends 
and family doing something that makes everybody happy.

It's a time proven fact, the dollar (or rupee or Euro) drives us all.
JKG
At 09:02 AM 9/23/2004, mark ford wrote:
Yeah, there are quite a few anomalies in the whole system...
If the name or number given to a fall is only for the specimens given in
for analysis, how come falls like sikhote have a total known weight of
many tons? Surley only a few kilo's where officially used for the
classification, so if we are being strict, the total known weight should
really be the 'total classified weight', should it not?
Best
Mark Ford

-Original Message-
From: JKG [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 23 September 2004 16:53
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
This is an interesting point. The word "known" implies that up to this
point this is what we know exists.  History has shown that addition
specimens of meteorites with previously published TNWs have been found
which changes the TNW.  But remember, in the case of NWAs, the
Meteoritical
Society has invoked a specific set of rules for a meteorite to be
properly
recognized.  Maybe it's time for the rule makers to revisit this issue.
Best,
JKG
At 08:35 AM 9/23/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Hi Bernhard and list,
>
>Something else to bear in mind (although it may be trivial) when you
refer
>to the TKW of say NWA1929 (or any other classified NWA). The weight is
>actually the total weight not total known weight as the name NWA1929
refers
>to the rock Mike had classified and no other. TKW infers there may be
other
>unknown/undiscovered mass. This cannot be possible.
>
>Regards
>
>Ken
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
>Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>Sent: 23 September 2004 16:19
>To: 'Michael Farmer'
>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
>Michael (and others who have written to me in private),
>
>it's not making me sick that it's about money, it makes me sick that
>people do not stick to the rules (even dealers I trust don't stick to
>the simple rules anymore).
>
>Let me tell you this: I recently bought a somewhat larger slice of NWA
>2019 from a respected dealer. I knew the TKW, I accepted the price and
I
>expected that the piece I buy is from this TKW.
>
>It seems now that the NWA 2019 I bought isn't NWA 2019, but
>"unclassified material that might quite possibly be paired to NWA
2019".
>
>Now, if this discussion wouldn't take place, I would believe I have so
>and so much from the TKW of NWA 2019. I would possibly resell it in the
>future as NWA 2019, adding to the confusion and unknowingly betraying
my
>business partner.
>
>So, to all dealers out there: if you sell a meteorite as Meteorite A
and
>it is just something that is possibly paired to A, I FEEL RIPPED OFF!
>And I don't like that feeling.
>
>Adam, what hav you done about the NWA 1110 auctions and the olivine
>diogenite you declared to be fake?
>
>What does the IMCA have to say about this matter?
>
>   _
>
>Best regards,
>Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
>CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
>This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>Michael Farmer
>Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
>To: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
>meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do
>costs
>a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while
building
>my
>collection.
>This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really
>know
>how to do it. I
>Mike Farmer
>- Original Message -
>From: "Bernhard

AW: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Jörn Koblitz

Calcalong Creek is a striking example indeed. Also, consider the existent overlapping 
strewnfields of some Omani lunar meteorites. And if one takes into account, that EVERY 
single meteorite fragment collected in Antarctica (ANSMET) - even in the case that it 
physically fits together with others -  gets its unique designation, it is just 
reasonable to follow the NomCom rules here.

Jörn Koblitz


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: JKG [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. September 2004 17:43
> An: Michael Farmer; Jim Strope; Meteorite List
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> 
> 
> Think about it folks, Calcalong Creek could be sitting in someone's 
> collection with a Millbillillie label on it.  Fortunately, 
> Haag noticed a 
> bit of a difference between it and the other meteorites he 
> purchased in 
> Australia.
> 
> During the NWA number debate of last week or so, I agreed 
> with Adam.  Now I 
> agree with Mike.  The meteorites of NWA come with several 
> problems that are 
> unique as Mike has stated.  We.somebodyneeds to do 
> something to 
> standardize the process and procedure that NWA's must go 
> through to be 
> legitimized.  Mike is correct - there appears to be a double standard 
> here.  Anyone got some ideas on how to solve the problem?
> 
> JKG
> 
> At 08:10 AM 9/23/2004, Michael Farmer wrote:
> >Yes Jim, it wasn't pretty.
> >The part about falls and finds was discussed. There is no 
> need to classify
> >every piece of those meteorites like Gao or Sikhote-Alin as 
> they are from a
> >compact area, and are distinctive enough to lack the need for further
> >classification.
> > When it comes to meteorite mass-concentration areas 
> like North Africa
> >and Oman, then the need for further classification is 
> necessary. Obviously
> >if you are hunting and find them all together, that would be 
> one meteorite,
> >but when buying in the markets there, then everything is 
> mixed up, some
> >paired meteorites being sold in cities 400 miles apart! That 
> makes for some
> >very confusing classification problems.
> >Mike Farmer
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "Jim Strope" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:05 AM
> >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> >
> >
> > > You should have been in Denver, Mike.   You would have 
> been shocked to see
> > > how much uncut "NWA 1929" was being sold at low prices.
> > >
> > > I am glad that I wasn't on the list the last month to 
> witness the fighting
> > > over numbers.  Perhaps, each newly found Sikhote-alin 
> should have it's own
> > > new name assigned   Or the new Glorietta?   Or the 
> new Campo? ETC.
> >ETC.
> > > ETC.
> > >
> > > Jim Strope
> > > 421 Fourth Street
> > > Glen Dale, WV  26038
> > >
> > > http://www.catchafallingstar.com
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:45 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> > >
> > >
> > > > This one confuses me.
> > > > We had a large fight and discussion just last week, 
> where the Hupes and
> >Dr
> > > > Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made 
> scientifically and when
> >the
> > > > nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, 
> it is for that
> > > > meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> > > > NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> > > > I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> > > > It now seems that people are selling other meteorites 
> under my number,
> > > > including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete 
> individuals? Then
> >they
> > > > have not been cut.
> > > > Why the double standard? How does anyone know these 
> uncut meteorites are
> > > NWA
> > > > 1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I 
> bought NWA 1929 in
> > > > Morocco?
> > > > I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites 
> can not be paired
> > > as
> > > > stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 
> immune to the
> >same
> > > > treatment?
> > > > This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who 
> last week had a
> >huge
> > > > fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that 
> other people are
> > > going
> > > > to town with my meteorite number.
> > > > Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are 
> no NWA 1929?
> > > >
> > > > Michael Farmer
> > > /meteorite-list
> > >
> > >
> > > __
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> >
> >__
> >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> ___

RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread mark ford


Yeah, there are quite a few anomalies in the whole system...


If the name or number given to a fall is only for the specimens given in
for analysis, how come falls like sikhote have a total known weight of
many tons? Surley only a few kilo's where officially used for the
classification, so if we are being strict, the total known weight should
really be the 'total classified weight', should it not?

Best


Mark Ford



-Original Message-
From: JKG [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 23 September 2004 16:53
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

This is an interesting point. The word "known" implies that up to this 
point this is what we know exists.  History has shown that addition 
specimens of meteorites with previously published TNWs have been found 
which changes the TNW.  But remember, in the case of NWAs, the
Meteoritical 
Society has invoked a specific set of rules for a meteorite to be
properly 
recognized.  Maybe it's time for the rule makers to revisit this issue.

Best,

JKG

At 08:35 AM 9/23/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


>Hi Bernhard and list,
>
>Something else to bear in mind (although it may be trivial) when you
refer
>to the TKW of say NWA1929 (or any other classified NWA). The weight is
>actually the total weight not total known weight as the name NWA1929
refers
>to the rock Mike had classified and no other. TKW infers there may be
other
>unknown/undiscovered mass. This cannot be possible.
>
>Regards
>
>Ken
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
>Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>Sent: 23 September 2004 16:19
>To: 'Michael Farmer'
>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
>Michael (and others who have written to me in private),
>
>it's not making me sick that it's about money, it makes me sick that
>people do not stick to the rules (even dealers I trust don't stick to
>the simple rules anymore).
>
>Let me tell you this: I recently bought a somewhat larger slice of NWA
>2019 from a respected dealer. I knew the TKW, I accepted the price and
I
>expected that the piece I buy is from this TKW.
>
>It seems now that the NWA 2019 I bought isn't NWA 2019, but
>"unclassified material that might quite possibly be paired to NWA
2019".
>
>Now, if this discussion wouldn't take place, I would believe I have so
>and so much from the TKW of NWA 2019. I would possibly resell it in the
>future as NWA 2019, adding to the confusion and unknowingly betraying
my
>business partner.
>
>So, to all dealers out there: if you sell a meteorite as Meteorite A
and
>it is just something that is possibly paired to A, I FEEL RIPPED OFF!
>And I don't like that feeling.
>
>Adam, what hav you done about the NWA 1110 auctions and the olivine
>diogenite you declared to be fake?
>
>What does the IMCA have to say about this matter?
>
>   _
>
>Best regards,
>Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
>CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
>This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>Michael Farmer
>Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
>To: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
>meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do
>costs
>a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while
building
>my
>collection.
>This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really
>know
>how to do it. I
>Mike Farmer
>- Original Message -
>From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:50 AM
>Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > Money, you know.
> >
> > This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and
> > selling off my 600+ meteorites.
> >
> >   _
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> >
> > CEO RPGDot Network
> >
> >
> > This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> > Michael Farmer
> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:45 PM
> > To: Rob Wesel; Meteorite List
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> >
> > This one confuses me.
> > We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes
>and
> > Dr
> > Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and
when
> > the
> > nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for
that
> > meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> > NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> > I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> > It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my
number,
> > including the Hupes? How i

RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

This is an interesting point. The word "known" implies that up to this 
point this is what we know exists.  History has shown that addition 
specimens of meteorites with previously published TNWs have been found 
which changes the TNW.  But remember, in the case of NWAs, the Meteoritical 
Society has invoked a specific set of rules for a meteorite to be properly 
recognized.  Maybe it's time for the rule makers to revisit this issue.

Best,
JKG
At 08:35 AM 9/23/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi Bernhard and list,
Something else to bear in mind (although it may be trivial) when you refer
to the TKW of say NWA1929 (or any other classified NWA). The weight is
actually the total weight not total known weight as the name NWA1929 refers
to the rock Mike had classified and no other. TKW infers there may be other
unknown/undiscovered mass. This cannot be possible.
Regards
Ken
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
Sent: 23 September 2004 16:19
To: 'Michael Farmer'
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
Michael (and others who have written to me in private),
it's not making me sick that it's about money, it makes me sick that
people do not stick to the rules (even dealers I trust don't stick to
the simple rules anymore).
Let me tell you this: I recently bought a somewhat larger slice of NWA
2019 from a respected dealer. I knew the TKW, I accepted the price and I
expected that the piece I buy is from this TKW.
It seems now that the NWA 2019 I bought isn't NWA 2019, but
"unclassified material that might quite possibly be paired to NWA 2019".
Now, if this discussion wouldn't take place, I would believe I have so
and so much from the TKW of NWA 2019. I would possibly resell it in the
future as NWA 2019, adding to the confusion and unknowingly betraying my
business partner.
So, to all dealers out there: if you sell a meteorite as Meteorite A and
it is just something that is possibly paired to A, I FEEL RIPPED OFF!
And I don't like that feeling.
Adam, what hav you done about the NWA 1110 auctions and the olivine
diogenite you declared to be fake?
What does the IMCA have to say about this matter?
  _
Best regards,
Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
CEO RPGDot Network
This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Michael Farmer
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
To: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do
costs
a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while building
my
collection.
This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really
know
how to do it. I
Mike Farmer
- Original Message -
From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:50 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> Money, you know.
>
> This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and
> selling off my 600+ meteorites.
>
>   _
>
> Best regards,
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
> CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
> This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Michael Farmer
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:45 PM
> To: Rob Wesel; Meteorite List
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
> This one confuses me.
> We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes
and
> Dr
> Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when
> the
> nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
> meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
> including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then
> they
> have not been cut.
> Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites
are
> NWA
> 1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929
in
> Morocco?
> I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be
paired
> as
> stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 immune to the
> same
> treatment?
> This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who last week had a
> huge
> fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that other people are
> going
> to town with my meteorite number.
> Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are no NWA 1929?
>
> Michael Farmer
> - Original Message -
> From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECT

Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Martin Altmann

It's easy to handle.
First we open a new numbers series and call the NWA "BMA" - Bought Meteorite
of Africa.
Second the Hupes, you, Matteo, Bessey and other twisted sisters organize a
foundation together with the IMCA, asking from each seller, who dares to
sell such a desert baby, a sample for the thin section and 5% from the
selling price
and with this funds there will be 2 or 3 poor mineralogists employed, for
doing nothing else than to find out the pairings
and voila in 30 years those Humpty-Dumptys are all set together again,
ready to recieve their NWA number.

Again prosit!
Martin



- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
> meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do
costs
> a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while building
my
> collection.
> This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really
know
> how to do it. I
> Mike Farmer

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Ken, indeed, there may be other pieces, but since Adam and Jeff Grossman
made it extremely clear last week that like the 1068 and 1110 meteorites,
the name can only be used for my original piece 922 grams.
Anything thought to be paired needs to be classified and given a new number
and perhaps listed at paired with 1929.
I did not participate in last week's discussion, but I am now mad that the
same people who fought so hard, are doing exactly what they fought against.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite-List (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


>
>
> Hi Bernhard and list,
>
> Something else to bear in mind (although it may be trivial) when you refer
> to the TKW of say NWA1929 (or any other classified NWA). The weight is
> actually the total weight not total known weight as the name NWA1929
refers
> to the rock Mike had classified and no other. TKW infers there may be
other
> unknown/undiscovered mass. This cannot be possible.
>
> Regards
>
> Ken
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> Sent: 23 September 2004 16:19
> To: 'Michael Farmer'
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> Michael (and others who have written to me in private),
>
> it's not making me sick that it's about money, it makes me sick that
> people do not stick to the rules (even dealers I trust don't stick to
> the simple rules anymore).
>
> Let me tell you this: I recently bought a somewhat larger slice of NWA
> 2019 from a respected dealer. I knew the TKW, I accepted the price and I
> expected that the piece I buy is from this TKW.
>
> It seems now that the NWA 2019 I bought isn't NWA 2019, but
> "unclassified material that might quite possibly be paired to NWA 2019".
>
> Now, if this discussion wouldn't take place, I would believe I have so
> and so much from the TKW of NWA 2019. I would possibly resell it in the
> future as NWA 2019, adding to the confusion and unknowingly betraying my
> business partner.
>
> So, to all dealers out there: if you sell a meteorite as Meteorite A and
> it is just something that is possibly paired to A, I FEEL RIPPED OFF!
> And I don't like that feeling.
>
> Adam, what hav you done about the NWA 1110 auctions and the olivine
> diogenite you declared to be fake?
>
> What does the IMCA have to say about this matter?
>
>   _
>
> Best regards,
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
> CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
> This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Michael Farmer
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
> To: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
> Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
> meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do
> costs
> a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while building
> my
> collection.
> This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really
> know
> how to do it. I
> Mike Farmer
> - Original Message -
> From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:50 AM
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > Money, you know.
> >
> > This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and
> > selling off my 600+ meteorites.
> >
> >   _
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> >
> > CEO RPGDot Network
> >
> >
> > This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> > Michael Farmer
> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:45 PM
> > To: Rob Wesel; Meteorite List
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> >
> > This one confuses me.
> > We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes
> and
> > Dr
> > Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when
> > the
> > nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
> > meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> > NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> > I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> > It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
> > including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then
> > they
> > have not been cut.
> > Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites
> are
> > NWA
> > 1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929
> in
> > Morocco?
> > I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be
> paired
> > as
> > stated by the Hupe

Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Think about it folks, Calcalong Creek could be sitting in someone's 
collection with a Millbillillie label on it.  Fortunately, Haag noticed a 
bit of a difference between it and the other meteorites he purchased in 
Australia.

During the NWA number debate of last week or so, I agreed with Adam.  Now I 
agree with Mike.  The meteorites of NWA come with several problems that are 
unique as Mike has stated.  We.somebodyneeds to do something to 
standardize the process and procedure that NWA's must go through to be 
legitimized.  Mike is correct - there appears to be a double standard 
here.  Anyone got some ideas on how to solve the problem?

JKG
At 08:10 AM 9/23/2004, Michael Farmer wrote:
Yes Jim, it wasn't pretty.
The part about falls and finds was discussed. There is no need to classify
every piece of those meteorites like Gao or Sikhote-Alin as they are from a
compact area, and are distinctive enough to lack the need for further
classification.
When it comes to meteorite mass-concentration areas like North Africa
and Oman, then the need for further classification is necessary. Obviously
if you are hunting and find them all together, that would be one meteorite,
but when buying in the markets there, then everything is mixed up, some
paired meteorites being sold in cities 400 miles apart! That makes for some
very confusing classification problems.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message -
From: "Jim Strope" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> You should have been in Denver, Mike.   You would have been shocked to see
> how much uncut "NWA 1929" was being sold at low prices.
>
> I am glad that I wasn't on the list the last month to witness the fighting
> over numbers.  Perhaps, each newly found Sikhote-alin should have it's own
> new name assigned   Or the new Glorietta?   Or the new Campo? ETC.
ETC.
> ETC.
>
> Jim Strope
> 421 Fourth Street
> Glen Dale, WV  26038
>
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > This one confuses me.
> > We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes and
Dr
> > Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when
the
> > nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
> > meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> > NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> > I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> > It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
> > including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then
they
> > have not been cut.
> > Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites are
> NWA
> > 1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929 in
> > Morocco?
> > I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be paired
> as
> > stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 immune to the
same
> > treatment?
> > This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who last week had a
huge
> > fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that other people are
> going
> > to town with my meteorite number.
> > Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are no NWA 1929?
> >
> > Michael Farmer
> /meteorite-list
>
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
__
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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__
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Bernd, indeed, NWA 1929 was one individual that weighed just 922 grams. I
bought it in Morocco in May 2003 for an investment trip. The investors all
got their pieces, so it depends on who it came from whether it is real or
not.
email me the seller, and I can at least tell you if they were an investor
who got a share of that meteorite.
Again, since NWA 1929 was only 922 grams, and was my stone, and I got it
classified, then according to Adam last week and Jeff Grossman, that number
belongs to a 922 gram stone, nothing else.
So those selling anything as NWA 1929 need answer that.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Hell, I am talking about 1929, of course, not 2019 :-)
>
>   _
>
> Best regards,
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
> CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
> This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 5:19 PM
> To: 'Michael Farmer'
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
> Michael (and others who have written to me in private),
>
> it's not making me sick that it's about money, it makes me sick that
> people do not stick to the rules (even dealers I trust don't stick to
> the simple rules anymore).
>
> Let me tell you this: I recently bought a somewhat larger slice of NWA
> 2019 from a respected dealer. I knew the TKW, I accepted the price and I
> expected that the piece I buy is from this TKW.
>
> It seems now that the NWA 2019 I bought isn't NWA 2019, but
> "unclassified material that might quite possibly be paired to NWA 2019".
>
> Now, if this discussion wouldn't take place, I would believe I have so
> and so much from the TKW of NWA 2019. I would possibly resell it in the
> future as NWA 2019, adding to the confusion and unknowingly betraying my
> business partner.
>
> So, to all dealers out there: if you sell a meteorite as Meteorite A and
> it is just something that is possibly paired to A, I FEEL RIPPED OFF!
> And I don't like that feeling.
>
> Adam, what hav you done about the NWA 1110 auctions and the olivine
> diogenite you declared to be fake?
>
> What does the IMCA have to say about this matter?
>
>   _
>
> Best regards,
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
> CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
> This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Michael Farmer
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
> To: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
> Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
> meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do
> costs
> a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while building
> my
> collection.
> This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really
> know
> how to do it. I
> Mike Farmer
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:50 AM
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > Money, you know.
> >
> > This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and
> > selling off my 600+ meteorites.
> >
> >   _
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
> >
> > CEO RPGDot Network
> >
> >
> > This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> > Michael Farmer
> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:45 PM
> > To: Rob Wesel; Meteorite List
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> >
> > This one confuses me.
> > We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes
> and
> > Dr
> > Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when
> > the
> > nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
> > meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> > NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> > I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> > It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
> > including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then
> > they
> > have not been cut.
> > Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites
> are
> > NWA
> > 1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929
> in
> > Morocco?
> > I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be
> paired
> > as
> > stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 imm

RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread kenoneill



Hi Bernhard and list,

Something else to bear in mind (although it may be trivial) when you refer
to the TKW of say NWA1929 (or any other classified NWA). The weight is
actually the total weight not total known weight as the name NWA1929 refers
to the rock Mike had classified and no other. TKW infers there may be other
unknown/undiscovered mass. This cannot be possible.

Regards

Ken

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
Sent: 23 September 2004 16:19
To: 'Michael Farmer'
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


Michael (and others who have written to me in private),

it's not making me sick that it's about money, it makes me sick that
people do not stick to the rules (even dealers I trust don't stick to
the simple rules anymore).

Let me tell you this: I recently bought a somewhat larger slice of NWA
2019 from a respected dealer. I knew the TKW, I accepted the price and I
expected that the piece I buy is from this TKW.

It seems now that the NWA 2019 I bought isn't NWA 2019, but
"unclassified material that might quite possibly be paired to NWA 2019".

Now, if this discussion wouldn't take place, I would believe I have so
and so much from the TKW of NWA 2019. I would possibly resell it in the
future as NWA 2019, adding to the confusion and unknowingly betraying my
business partner.

So, to all dealers out there: if you sell a meteorite as Meteorite A and
it is just something that is possibly paired to A, I FEEL RIPPED OFF!
And I don't like that feeling.

Adam, what hav you done about the NWA 1110 auctions and the olivine
diogenite you declared to be fake?

What does the IMCA have to say about this matter?

  _

Best regards,
Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems

CEO RPGDot Network


This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Michael Farmer
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
To: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do
costs
a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while building
my
collection.
This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really
know
how to do it. I
Mike Farmer
- Original Message -
From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:50 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Money, you know.
>
> This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and
> selling off my 600+ meteorites.
>
>   _
>
> Best regards,
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
> CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
> This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Michael Farmer
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:45 PM
> To: Rob Wesel; Meteorite List
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
> This one confuses me.
> We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes
and
> Dr
> Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when
> the
> nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
> meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
> including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then
> they
> have not been cut.
> Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites
are
> NWA
> 1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929
in
> Morocco?
> I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be
paired
> as
> stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 immune to the
> same
> treatment?
> This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who last week had a
> huge
> fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that other people are
> going
> to town with my meteorite number.
> Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are no NWA 1929?
>
> Michael Farmer
> - Original Message -
> From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:15 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > Hello all-
> >
> > Thought I'd burn the midnight oil and give the folks across the pond
a
> > fighting chance at a great deal.
> >
> > Up for offer is some of the Recrystallized Howardite NWA 1929
> >
> > Classification info below, this material is PAIRED
> >
> > Classification and mineralogy (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU): a
> > heavily shocked (S4-6) breccia

Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Martin Altmann

But Bernd... just take the better documented Oman finds or the DaGs.
Everybody knows now, what's going on with the NWAs and if it's disturbing,
that there is not known the place of find, the date of find and the total
known weight,
one has those Dhos, DaGs, HaHs ect. as a good alternative choice, especially
as they are available at the same price level as the NWAs.

Anyway - Beside, that one never will find out the pairings of the NWAs, who
could complain at this sick low prices  Remember what one had to pay for
achondrites 5 or 3 years ago!!!

Prosit!
Ma

- Original Message - 
From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Money, you know.
>
> This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and
> selling off my 600+ meteorites.
>
>   _
>
> Best regards,
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
> CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
>

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
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Re: [meteorite-list] metal detectors

Several List members use White's Goldmaster series detectors with great 
success.  The current model is the GMT with is very similar to the previous 
model, the Goldmaster 4.  Previous models were the Goldmaster 2, Goldmaster 
3 and the Goldmaster VSAT.  All are good units to hunt for all types of 
meteorites.  The Goldmaster 3 has some features that have made it a very 
popular detector with meteorites hunters.

Other meteorite hunters I know use the Fisher detectors - the Gold Bug and 
Gold Bug II.  One List member from up in Mohave County has used a Gold Bug 
to find LOTS of meteorites so I know that it can be a good producer in the 
right hands.

Both the White and Fisher detectors are available from time to time on 
Ebay.  Make sure you get a guarantee that the unit will work properly and 
that you can get your money back if there's a problem.

Just one final thought.  Get someone that is experienced in using a metal 
detector for hunting meteorites to show you how to use the machine 
properly.  Nothing can be more frustrating that finding out at the end of a 
long day of "beeping" that you had the unit set up wrong!

Best,
JKG
At 01:51 AM 9/23/2004, meteoriteshow wrote:
Hello,
I'm looking for a metal detector that can be suitable for meteorite hunting
and able to detect chondrites as well as iron rich meteorites. I've already
looked at several types, but it's difficult for me to get a clear idea about
it, as I do not wish to invest too much in this equipment...
I've seen the following type, maybe someone has tried it already and can
tell me if it's good or not:
- Allround metal detector
weight: 1,1 kg
total length: 57 - 88 cm
disc diameter: 17 cm
power: 6 x 1,5 V R6
headphones plug: 3,5 mm
detection down to 60 cm deep for big itms and down to 12 cm deep for coins
wiring: interior
If anyone gets a metal detector that is suitable for my need and in good
condition, either for sale or for trade, you can contact me via my private
e-mail.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Frederic Beroud
www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA #2491
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RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Hell, I am talking about 1929, of course, not 2019 :-)

  _  

Best regards,
Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems 

CEO RPGDot Network 

 
This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 5:19 PM
To: 'Michael Farmer'
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Michael (and others who have written to me in private),

it's not making me sick that it's about money, it makes me sick that
people do not stick to the rules (even dealers I trust don't stick to
the simple rules anymore).

Let me tell you this: I recently bought a somewhat larger slice of NWA
2019 from a respected dealer. I knew the TKW, I accepted the price and I
expected that the piece I buy is from this TKW.

It seems now that the NWA 2019 I bought isn't NWA 2019, but
"unclassified material that might quite possibly be paired to NWA 2019".

Now, if this discussion wouldn't take place, I would believe I have so
and so much from the TKW of NWA 2019. I would possibly resell it in the
future as NWA 2019, adding to the confusion and unknowingly betraying my
business partner.

So, to all dealers out there: if you sell a meteorite as Meteorite A and
it is just something that is possibly paired to A, I FEEL RIPPED OFF!
And I don't like that feeling.

Adam, what hav you done about the NWA 1110 auctions and the olivine
diogenite you declared to be fake?

What does the IMCA have to say about this matter?

  _  

Best regards,
Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems 

CEO RPGDot Network 

 
This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Michael Farmer
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
To: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do
costs
a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while building
my
collection.
This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really
know
how to do it. I
Mike Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:50 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Money, you know.
>
> This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and
> selling off my 600+ meteorites.
>
>   _
>
> Best regards,
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
> CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
> This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Michael Farmer
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:45 PM
> To: Rob Wesel; Meteorite List
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
> This one confuses me.
> We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes
and
> Dr
> Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when
> the
> nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
> meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
> including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then
> they
> have not been cut.
> Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites
are
> NWA
> 1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929
in
> Morocco?
> I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be
paired
> as
> stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 immune to the
> same
> treatment?
> This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who last week had a
> huge
> fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that other people are
> going
> to town with my meteorite number.
> Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are no NWA 1929?
>
> Michael Farmer
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:15 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > Hello all-
> >
> > Thought I'd burn the midnight oil and give the folks across the pond
a
> > fighting chance at a great deal.
> >
> > Up for offer is some of the Recrystallized Howardite NWA 1929
> >
> > Classification info below, this material is PAIRED
> >
> > Classification and mineralogy (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU): a
> > heavily shocked (S4-6) breccia of 72 vol % cumulate eucrite clasts,
8%
> > subophitic clasts, 14% diogenites and 6% melt clasts. Pervasive
> solid-state
> > recrystallization of plagioclase and pyroxenes; localized melt
poc

RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Michael (and others who have written to me in private),

it's not making me sick that it's about money, it makes me sick that
people do not stick to the rules (even dealers I trust don't stick to
the simple rules anymore).

Let me tell you this: I recently bought a somewhat larger slice of NWA
2019 from a respected dealer. I knew the TKW, I accepted the price and I
expected that the piece I buy is from this TKW.

It seems now that the NWA 2019 I bought isn't NWA 2019, but
"unclassified material that might quite possibly be paired to NWA 2019".

Now, if this discussion wouldn't take place, I would believe I have so
and so much from the TKW of NWA 2019. I would possibly resell it in the
future as NWA 2019, adding to the confusion and unknowingly betraying my
business partner.

So, to all dealers out there: if you sell a meteorite as Meteorite A and
it is just something that is possibly paired to A, I FEEL RIPPED OFF!
And I don't like that feeling.

Adam, what hav you done about the NWA 1110 auctions and the olivine
diogenite you declared to be fake?

What does the IMCA have to say about this matter?

  _  

Best regards,
Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems 

CEO RPGDot Network 

 
This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Michael Farmer
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM
To: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do
costs
a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while building
my
collection.
This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really
know
how to do it. I
Mike Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:50 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Money, you know.
>
> This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and
> selling off my 600+ meteorites.
>
>   _
>
> Best regards,
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
> CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
> This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Michael Farmer
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:45 PM
> To: Rob Wesel; Meteorite List
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
> This one confuses me.
> We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes
and
> Dr
> Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when
> the
> nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
> meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
> including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then
> they
> have not been cut.
> Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites
are
> NWA
> 1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929
in
> Morocco?
> I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be
paired
> as
> stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 immune to the
> same
> treatment?
> This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who last week had a
> huge
> fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that other people are
> going
> to town with my meteorite number.
> Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are no NWA 1929?
>
> Michael Farmer
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:15 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > Hello all-
> >
> > Thought I'd burn the midnight oil and give the folks across the pond
a
> > fighting chance at a great deal.
> >
> > Up for offer is some of the Recrystallized Howardite NWA 1929
> >
> > Classification info below, this material is PAIRED
> >
> > Classification and mineralogy (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU): a
> > heavily shocked (S4-6) breccia of 72 vol % cumulate eucrite clasts,
8%
> > subophitic clasts, 14% diogenites and 6% melt clasts. Pervasive
> solid-state
> > recrystallization of plagioclase and pyroxenes; localized melt
pockets
> and
> > veins in clasts. Cumulate pyroxene, Fs45-40Wo7-20; plagioclase,
> An91.2-95.3;
> > melted metal droplets, 0.97 wt % Ni and 0.87 % Cr. Diogenite
pyroxene,
> > Fs43-54 Wo2.5-3.6. Fresh crust and minor interior staining.
> >
> > I have three large pieces for sale at an excellent price, and when I
> say
> > excellent I mean $14 per gram and under!
> >
> > They are split individuals that fit perfectly together. Keep both

Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Jim Strope

Obviously, you are right, verification of specimens should be performed
before they are assigned to a pre-existing number.  I guess I wasn't clear
on that.

Jim Strope
421 Fourth Street
Glen Dale, WV  26038

http://www.catchafallingstar.com

- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jim Strope" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Yes Jim, it wasn't pretty.
> The part about falls and finds was discussed. There is no need to classify
> every piece of those meteorites like Gao or Sikhote-Alin as they are from
a
> compact area, and are distinctive enough to lack the need for further
> classification.
> When it comes to meteorite mass-concentration areas like North Africa
> and Oman, then the need for further classification is necessary. Obviously
> if you are hunting and find them all together, that would be one
meteorite,
> but when buying in the markets there, then everything is mixed up, some
> paired meteorites being sold in cities 400 miles apart! That makes for
some
> very confusing classification problems.
> Mike Farmer
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jim Strope" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > You should have been in Denver, Mike.   You would have been shocked to
see
> > how much uncut "NWA 1929" was being sold at low prices.
> >
> > I am glad that I wasn't on the list the last month to witness the
fighting
> > over numbers.  Perhaps, each newly found Sikhote-alin should have it's
own
> > new name assigned   Or the new Glorietta?   Or the new Campo? ETC.
> ETC.
> > ETC.
> >
> > Jim Strope
> > 421 Fourth Street
> > Glen Dale, WV  26038
> >
> > http://www.catchafallingstar.com
> >
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:45 AM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
> >
> >
> > > This one confuses me.
> > > We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes
and
> Dr
> > > Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when
> the
> > > nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
> > > meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> > > NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> > > I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> > > It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
> > > including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then
> they
> > > have not been cut.
> > > Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites
are
> > NWA
> > > 1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929
in
> > > Morocco?
> > > I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be
paired
> > as
> > > stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 immune to the
> same
> > > treatment?
> > > This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who last week had a
> huge
> > > fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that other people are
> > going
> > > to town with my meteorite number.
> > > Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are no NWA 1929?
> > >
> > > Michael Farmer
> > /meteorite-list
> >
> >
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>


__
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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Yes Jim, it wasn't pretty.
The part about falls and finds was discussed. There is no need to classify
every piece of those meteorites like Gao or Sikhote-Alin as they are from a
compact area, and are distinctive enough to lack the need for further
classification.
When it comes to meteorite mass-concentration areas like North Africa
and Oman, then the need for further classification is necessary. Obviously
if you are hunting and find them all together, that would be one meteorite,
but when buying in the markets there, then everything is mixed up, some
paired meteorites being sold in cities 400 miles apart! That makes for some
very confusing classification problems.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: "Jim Strope" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> You should have been in Denver, Mike.   You would have been shocked to see
> how much uncut "NWA 1929" was being sold at low prices.
>
> I am glad that I wasn't on the list the last month to witness the fighting
> over numbers.  Perhaps, each newly found Sikhote-alin should have it's own
> new name assigned   Or the new Glorietta?   Or the new Campo? ETC.
ETC.
> ETC.
>
> Jim Strope
> 421 Fourth Street
> Glen Dale, WV  26038
>
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > This one confuses me.
> > We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes and
Dr
> > Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when
the
> > nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
> > meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> > NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> > I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> > It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
> > including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then
they
> > have not been cut.
> > Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites are
> NWA
> > 1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929 in
> > Morocco?
> > I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be paired
> as
> > stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 immune to the
same
> > treatment?
> > This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who last week had a
huge
> > fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that other people are
> going
> > to town with my meteorite number.
> > Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are no NWA 1929?
> >
> > Michael Farmer
> /meteorite-list
>
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


__
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FW: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread kenoneill



Hi Bernhard & list,

Whether we like it or not if it wasn't for the commercial aspect, collectors
would have little chance of aquiring meteorites for their collections. I
think too that if it weren't for commercial enterprise in our field many
meteorite samples would never have been found. Everyone would lose out.

Regards

Ken




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
Sent: 23 September 2004 15:51
To: 'Michael Farmer'
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


Money, you know.

This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and
selling off my 600+ meteorites.

  _

Best regards,
Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems

CEO RPGDot Network


This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Michael Farmer
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:45 PM
To: Rob Wesel; Meteorite List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

This one confuses me.
We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes and
Dr
Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when
the
nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then
they
have not been cut.
Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites are
NWA
1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929 in
Morocco?
I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be paired
as
stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 immune to the
same
treatment?
This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who last week had a
huge
fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that other people are
going
to town with my meteorite number.
Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are no NWA 1929?

Michael Farmer
- Original Message -
From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:15 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Hello all-
>
> Thought I'd burn the midnight oil and give the folks across the pond a
> fighting chance at a great deal.
>
> Up for offer is some of the Recrystallized Howardite NWA 1929
>
> Classification info below, this material is PAIRED
>
> Classification and mineralogy (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU): a
> heavily shocked (S4-6) breccia of 72 vol % cumulate eucrite clasts, 8%
> subophitic clasts, 14% diogenites and 6% melt clasts. Pervasive
solid-state
> recrystallization of plagioclase and pyroxenes; localized melt pockets
and
> veins in clasts. Cumulate pyroxene, Fs45-40Wo7-20; plagioclase,
An91.2-95.3;
> melted metal droplets, 0.97 wt % Ni and 0.87 % Cr. Diogenite pyroxene,
> Fs43-54 Wo2.5-3.6. Fresh crust and minor interior staining.
>
> I have three large pieces for sale at an excellent price, and when I
say
> excellent I mean $14 per gram and under!
>
> They are split individuals that fit perfectly together. Keep both
pieces
or
> sell one and make some money while keeping one for yourself.
>
> If you ever wanted a showy Howardite but never thought you could
afford
> it...take a look
>
> 306.2 grams ... $4000 ... ONLY $13 a gram!!!
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/306.2faces.JPG
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/306.2backs.JPG
>
>
> 91.4 grams ... $1275
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/91.4faces.JPG
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/91.4backs.JPG
>
>
> 101.2 grams ... $1400
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/101.2faces.JPG
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/101.2backs.JPG
>
> You want bigger? I can get 'em, just ask. Up to kilo individuals!
>
> Domestic shipping and insurance on me if PayPal avoided
> Foreign shipping on me if PayPal avoided, insurance optional
>
>
>
> Rob Wesel
> --
> We are the music makers...
> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
>
>
>
>
> __
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

2004-09-23 Thread Jim Strope

You should have been in Denver, Mike.   You would have been shocked to see
how much uncut "NWA 1929" was being sold at low prices.

I am glad that I wasn't on the list the last month to witness the fighting
over numbers.  Perhaps, each newly found Sikhote-alin should have it's own
new name assigned   Or the new Glorietta?   Or the new Campo? ETC. ETC.
ETC.

Jim Strope
421 Fourth Street
Glen Dale, WV  26038

http://www.catchafallingstar.com

- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> This one confuses me.
> We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes and Dr
> Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when the
> nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
> meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
> including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then they
> have not been cut.
> Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites are
NWA
> 1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929 in
> Morocco?
> I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be paired
as
> stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 immune to the same
> treatment?
> This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who last week had a huge
> fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that other people are
going
> to town with my meteorite number.
> Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are no NWA 1929?
>
> Michael Farmer
/meteorite-list


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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the
meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do costs
a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while building my
collection.
This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really know
how to do it. I
Mike Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:50 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Money, you know.
>
> This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and
> selling off my 600+ meteorites.
>
>   _
>
> Best regards,
> Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems
>
> CEO RPGDot Network
>
>
> This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Michael Farmer
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:45 PM
> To: Rob Wesel; Meteorite List
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
> This one confuses me.
> We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes and
> Dr
> Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when
> the
> nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
> meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
> NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
> I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
> It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
> including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then
> they
> have not been cut.
> Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites are
> NWA
> 1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929 in
> Morocco?
> I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be paired
> as
> stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 immune to the
> same
> treatment?
> This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who last week had a
> huge
> fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that other people are
> going
> to town with my meteorite number.
> Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are no NWA 1929?
>
> Michael Farmer
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:15 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
>
>
> > Hello all-
> >
> > Thought I'd burn the midnight oil and give the folks across the pond a
> > fighting chance at a great deal.
> >
> > Up for offer is some of the Recrystallized Howardite NWA 1929
> >
> > Classification info below, this material is PAIRED
> >
> > Classification and mineralogy (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU): a
> > heavily shocked (S4-6) breccia of 72 vol % cumulate eucrite clasts, 8%
> > subophitic clasts, 14% diogenites and 6% melt clasts. Pervasive
> solid-state
> > recrystallization of plagioclase and pyroxenes; localized melt pockets
> and
> > veins in clasts. Cumulate pyroxene, Fs45-40Wo7-20; plagioclase,
> An91.2-95.3;
> > melted metal droplets, 0.97 wt % Ni and 0.87 % Cr. Diogenite pyroxene,
> > Fs43-54 Wo2.5-3.6. Fresh crust and minor interior staining.
> >
> > I have three large pieces for sale at an excellent price, and when I
> say
> > excellent I mean $14 per gram and under!
> >
> > They are split individuals that fit perfectly together. Keep both
> pieces
> or
> > sell one and make some money while keeping one for yourself.
> >
> > If you ever wanted a showy Howardite but never thought you could
> afford
> > it...take a look
> >
> > 306.2 grams ... $4000 ... ONLY $13 a gram!!!
> > http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/306.2faces.JPG
> > http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/306.2backs.JPG
> >
> >
> > 91.4 grams ... $1275
> > http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/91.4faces.JPG
> > http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/91.4backs.JPG
> >
> >
> > 101.2 grams ... $1400
> > http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/101.2faces.JPG
> > http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/101.2backs.JPG
> >
> > You want bigger? I can get 'em, just ask. Up to kilo individuals!
> >
> > Domestic shipping and insurance on me if PayPal avoided
> > Foreign shipping on me if PayPal avoided, insurance optional
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob Wesel
> > --
> > We are the music makers...
> > and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> > Willy Wonka, 1971
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> __
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>
>


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RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

Money, you know. 

This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and
selling off my 600+ meteorites.

  _  

Best regards,
Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems 

CEO RPGDot Network 

 
This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Michael Farmer
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:45 PM
To: Rob Wesel; Meteorite List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

This one confuses me.
We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes and
Dr
Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when
the
nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then
they
have not been cut.
Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites are
NWA
1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929 in
Morocco?
I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be paired
as
stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 immune to the
same
treatment?
This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who last week had a
huge
fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that other people are
going
to town with my meteorite number.
Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are no NWA 1929?

Michael Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:15 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Hello all-
>
> Thought I'd burn the midnight oil and give the folks across the pond a
> fighting chance at a great deal.
>
> Up for offer is some of the Recrystallized Howardite NWA 1929
>
> Classification info below, this material is PAIRED
>
> Classification and mineralogy (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU): a
> heavily shocked (S4-6) breccia of 72 vol % cumulate eucrite clasts, 8%
> subophitic clasts, 14% diogenites and 6% melt clasts. Pervasive
solid-state
> recrystallization of plagioclase and pyroxenes; localized melt pockets
and
> veins in clasts. Cumulate pyroxene, Fs45-40Wo7-20; plagioclase,
An91.2-95.3;
> melted metal droplets, 0.97 wt % Ni and 0.87 % Cr. Diogenite pyroxene,
> Fs43-54 Wo2.5-3.6. Fresh crust and minor interior staining.
>
> I have three large pieces for sale at an excellent price, and when I
say
> excellent I mean $14 per gram and under!
>
> They are split individuals that fit perfectly together. Keep both
pieces
or
> sell one and make some money while keeping one for yourself.
>
> If you ever wanted a showy Howardite but never thought you could
afford
> it...take a look
>
> 306.2 grams ... $4000 ... ONLY $13 a gram!!!
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/306.2faces.JPG
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/306.2backs.JPG
>
>
> 91.4 grams ... $1275
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/91.4faces.JPG
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/91.4backs.JPG
>
>
> 101.2 grams ... $1400
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/101.2faces.JPG
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/101.2backs.JPG
>
> You want bigger? I can get 'em, just ask. Up to kilo individuals!
>
> Domestic shipping and insurance on me if PayPal avoided
> Foreign shipping on me if PayPal avoided, insurance optional
>
>
>
> Rob Wesel
> --
> We are the music makers...
> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
>
>
>
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


__
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Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out

This one confuses me.
We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes and Dr
Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when the
nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that
meteorite that the number is reserved, no others.
NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual.
I had it classified by Dr Bunch.
It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number,
including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then they
have not been cut.
Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites are NWA
1929? Why were they all suddenly found a year after I bought NWA 1929 in
Morocco?
I am a little confused about this, if other meteorites can not be paired as
stated by the Hupes so adamantly, then how is NWA 1929 immune to the same
treatment?
This is not directed at Adam, he is just the one who last week had a huge
fight with Bob Evans over this, and now it seems that other people are going
to town with my meteorite number.
Anyone care to tell me how all of these meteorites are no NWA 1929?

Michael Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:15 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out


> Hello all-
>
> Thought I'd burn the midnight oil and give the folks across the pond a
> fighting chance at a great deal.
>
> Up for offer is some of the Recrystallized Howardite NWA 1929
>
> Classification info below, this material is PAIRED
>
> Classification and mineralogy (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU): a
> heavily shocked (S4-6) breccia of 72 vol % cumulate eucrite clasts, 8%
> subophitic clasts, 14% diogenites and 6% melt clasts. Pervasive
solid-state
> recrystallization of plagioclase and pyroxenes; localized melt pockets and
> veins in clasts. Cumulate pyroxene, Fs45-40Wo7-20; plagioclase,
An91.2-95.3;
> melted metal droplets, 0.97 wt % Ni and 0.87 % Cr. Diogenite pyroxene,
> Fs43-54 Wo2.5-3.6. Fresh crust and minor interior staining.
>
> I have three large pieces for sale at an excellent price, and when I say
> excellent I mean $14 per gram and under!
>
> They are split individuals that fit perfectly together. Keep both pieces
or
> sell one and make some money while keeping one for yourself.
>
> If you ever wanted a showy Howardite but never thought you could afford
> it...take a look
>
> 306.2 grams ... $4000 ... ONLY $13 a gram!!!
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/306.2faces.JPG
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/306.2backs.JPG
>
>
> 91.4 grams ... $1275
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/91.4faces.JPG
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/91.4backs.JPG
>
>
> 101.2 grams ... $1400
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/101.2faces.JPG
> http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/101.2backs.JPG
>
> You want bigger? I can get 'em, just ask. Up to kilo individuals!
>
> Domestic shipping and insurance on me if PayPal avoided
> Foreign shipping on me if PayPal avoided, insurance optional
>
>
>
> Rob Wesel
> --
> We are the music makers...
> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
>
>
>
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


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RE: [meteorite-list] Calculating a meteorite orbit

I think that books from Jean Meeus could serve you. They contain
formulas to calculate orbits, planetary positions, eclipses,
conjunctions and maybe calculations for meteorites as well.

One thing to think about, though: the best you can say is where the
meteorite entered the atmosphere, nothing more. Perturbances of the
orbit are many with such a small body, and I would think that you cannot
determine exact positions for more than a day or two back into the past.

Even asteroids can't be calculated precisely with a formula for more
than two or three orbits. After that, the miscalculations will be more
than just a few arcseconds...

  _  

Best regards,
Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems 

CEO RPGDot Network 

 
This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Pierre-Marie PELE
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 3:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Calculating a meteorite orbit

Hello,

I'm searching for an Excel program or a document explaining how to
determine the orbit of a meteorite fallen on earth according to the fact
that we know the impact point, trajectory, altitude and speed, pictures
of the bolide.
This technique of orbit calculation was used on Pribram, Lost City or
Innisfree for example.

I need your help ;-)

Regards,

Pierre-Marie Pele
www.meteor-center.com
--

Faites un voeu et puis Voila ! www.voila.fr 


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[meteorite-list] Calculating a meteorite orbit

2004-09-23 Thread Pierre-Marie PELE

Hello,

I'm searching for an Excel program or a document explaining how to determine the orbit 
of a meteorite fallen on earth according to the fact that we know the impact point, 
trajectory, altitude and speed, pictures of the bolide.
This technique of orbit calculation was used on Pribram, Lost City or Innisfree for 
example.

I need your help ;-)

Regards,

Pierre-Marie Pele
www.meteor-center.com
--

Faites un voeu et puis Voila ! www.voila.fr 


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[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture Of The Day - September 23, 2004

2004-09-23 Thread SPACEROCKSINC

ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE  DAY:
http://www.geocities.com/spacerocksinc/Sep_23.html  

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[meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out