[meteorite-list] Re: Willcox Playa 003 and 005 Meteorites, Family Reunion

[Robert Verish]

Good evening Mark and M-Listees,

Thank you for your kind words, but I hasten to reply
that, in my opinion, if any credit is due for
recognizing a potential H5-6 strewn field on Willcox
Playa, it should go to both Mr Gutowski (for finding
WP 003) and to Mark Bostick for sharing this discovery
with the meteorite community.  Their initiative led
the way for me being able to collaborate with them. 
Admittedly, an unintended collaboration, yet a mutual
interest that has brought about a "Family Reunion" of
daughter fragments from a mother meteoroid that
originated from a H5 asteroidal parent body.

Also would like to take this opportunity to reiterate
something that I wrote in my latest "Bob's Findings"
Meteoritetimes.com article.  Although I was aware that
ASU had conducted the lab work on the previous
H-chondrites from Willcox Playa, I still sent my finds
to UCLA.  In regards to this "breach of protocol", I
defended myself by saying that I had a window of
opportunity with UCLA in getting my specimens
classified that same week, and anyway, neither ASU, 
nor any other institution could take my OC specimens. 

Now you may be thinking, "what's the big deal?", but
this IS an important issue.  It is more than proper
etiquette, it is "good science" to recognize on-going
field studies and to defer to the labs of those
researchers.  This is an issue that is important to
all types of field-collectors and any kind of
collecting that occurs in a "study area".  This has
been an issue with meteorite collecting long before
Gold Basin was a UofA study area.

I just wanted to reiterate that I am sensitive to this
issue and that I defer to any principal investigator,
should I independently make a find in their "study
area".  I point to my past record, and as far back as
1998, where my web pages deferred to "the on-going
study of Gold Basin by UofA", and more recently, you
may remember that I directed finders of Franconia
meteorites to ASU.  I lay no claim to Willcox Playa. 
And again, I recommend that all finders of Willcox
Playa meteorites to forward their recovery data to
ASU.  

By the same token, should any institution be in the
need of experienced field workers, our team of 
specialists, and myself, stand by our exemplary record
of meteorite-recovery, and are available on a
volunteer basis.

With best regards,
Bob Verish
P.S. - 
I hope Mark forgives me, but I corrected the typos in
his post so that future Google searches (using keyword
"Willcox") can more readily find his post.

---
From: "MARK BOSTICK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:01:36 -0600 

Subject: Willcox Playa 003 and 005 Meteorites, Family
Reunion 

Hello list and Bob,

First, I would like to start off by giving a salute to
Bob Verish for his work at Willcox Playa, and for his
willingness to share information.  
Most people are reluctant sharing find or possible
find information.  As Verish has shown, he is not. 
Several of Verish's Meteorite Times column have 
featured information on the Willcox Playa meteorites
and the area.  I think its safe to say, that in the
process, Verish has discovered, at least one more
Arizona strewn field.  I will note, Willcox has been
hunted unsuccessfully many times and by many people. 

So, how big is the strewn field or strewn fields?  My
obvious concern is more on the H5-6 meteorites. 
I am betting it won't be that much, but I am also
betting there are other pieces out there.  How much? 
Perhaps Bob will be able to answer these questions in
a couple of years.

Paired meteorites Willcox Playa 003 and Willcox Playa
005, have been re-united. "Wilcox 05" will appear in
the next Meteoritical Bulletin [as Willcox Playa 005]
and because of the pairing, I feel I have a little
move to follow Bob's lead, and share more information
on Willcox Playa 003.

Willcox Playa 003, is the second of three meteorites,
that I am aware of, that was offered on ebay, by the
finder.  Not counting any of us meteorite people of
course, or those shown the Gold Basin or/and Franconia
strewn fields.  I will note that all three auctions,
have been in the last year.  
This is a great example, of because of the internet,
finders are now more price savvy.

More information on how I got the meteorite, and a
letter from the finder can now be found in the first
link below.  For information on Willcox Playa 005, you
would do a little better, going to:
http://www.meteoritetimes.com, and 
reading Bob's column there.

Wilcox Playa 003
http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colwilcox.html

Wilcox Playa 005
http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colwilcox05.html

Clear Skies,
Mark Bostick
message truncated




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[meteorite-list] Store add DELETE 20-80% off sale

[David Freeman]

Dear List;
Please pardon my sale add.   I have lowered the price on every item in 
my ebay store by 20-80%! In the first hour, 24 items sold, hot deals!
Priority flat rate shipping savings.  SPRING/Easter Clean out!

Look under eBay user ID "mjwy"
Get your  mantle derived kimberlite that looks like a stony meteorite 
inside!
Great for study of olivines and carbonized olivines.
Thanks for letting me pester,
Dave Freeman
mjwy
IMCA #3864

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Re: [meteorite-list]OT Sad night in Arizona :(

[joseph_town]

I'm no sports fan. I do watch playoffs in most sports. That was one hell of a 
contest!

Bill


 -- Original message --
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I just got home from watching the most exciting game for a long time! The 
> UofA team was so close, up 15 points, but they threw it away in the last few 
> minutes.
> Great game, great run, too bad it is over for us.
> Mike Farmer
> Oh well, back to meteorites now. 
> 
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Sad night in Arizona :(

[Devin Schrader]

:(
1 point
Devin
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 9:05 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sad night in Arizona :(


I just got home from watching the most exciting game for a long time! The 
UofA team was so close, up 15 points, but they threw it away in the last 
few minutes.
Great game, great run, too bad it is over for us.
Mike Farmer
Oh well, back to meteorites now.

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[meteorite-list] Sad night in Arizona :(

[Michael Farmer]

I just got home from watching the most exciting game for a long time! The 
UofA team was so close, up 15 points, but they threw it away in the last few 
minutes.
Great game, great run, too bad it is over for us.
Mike Farmer
Oh well, back to meteorites now. 

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[meteorite-list] Holiday gift

[joseph_town]

Hi all,

My grandson just brought me gift. Don't ask me why but it's one of those chia 
heads. I'm embarrassed to say I have a 1172g Campo. I remember the discussion 
of meteorites as a growing medium, so I think I'll grow a Ca, Ca, Ca, Campo.

Bill

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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Tektite pitting

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Darren,

As kids say on the internet, "KEWL!"   I think most of the flowlines are 
strain lines or stretch
lines that date to the plastic phase, but there's one near the top of the 
object that is a true
"channel." Notice how many pits are elongated in the direction of the lines 
that cross them? Strtch!

Really nice picture. If it had a black backround, I say, "Which moon of 
Saturn is that, now?"

Sterling Webb
-
Darren Garrison wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:49:08 -0600, "Bob King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >result of devitrification (or some other sort of erosive action) or were
> >these pits formed at the time of creation from escaping gases and water
> >vapor?
>
> I say escaping gases.  Look at this tektite from my collection (I've had 
> these around 20 years, LONG
> before I had any meteorites.)  The flow-line run straight through the large 
> pits, even changing
> direction slightly within them.  That means that the pits had to predate the 
> flow lines.  But then
> some of the SMALL pits do interrupt the flow lines, meaning that they formed 
> last.  I would suppose
> the major gas/water packets bubbled out first, then the small ones.
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/tektite_flowlines.jpg
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Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Lunar origin of tektites

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi,

The major composition is not quartz.  Quartz is a mineral, i.e., crystal.
There are small quartz inclusions, partially melted, in tektites.  Tektites are
a glass.  "Glass" is a rock that has been completely melted (or almost
completely) then cooled so rapidly that no crystals have time to form. No
crystals -- it's not a rock any more, Baby Blue.
There is a big argument about whether "glass" is a solid or a liquid of
super high viscosity. Since there are no crystals in a glass, it is often
impossible to determine what rocks were melted to produce the glass.  The bulk
composition (and common sense knowledge) shows that quartz must a major
component, up to 70% silicon, probably in the form of sand -- that's how humans
make glass from scratch.
Glass-making, however, is a craft technology in which scientists are never
involved and about which scientists, frankly, know almost nothing. Arguments
about tektites that put forward inconvient facts about the characteristics of
glass that must be considered in studying tektites are usually ignored.
O'Keefe, an astronomer, spent years learning about glasses and everything he
learned was ignored.  Shouldn't have been, but there you go.  For example,
cooling a molten mass down to create glass must be done very slowly, for
many, many hours, or crystalization will suddenly commence at some point inside
the mass, spread catastrophically, and tons of melt will turn back into rock,
mineral, in moments.  From the glass-maker's viewpoint, a disaster.
So, how did tektites get formed in a 50,000 degree plasma, get blown into
space to cool rapidly for 10-25 minutes in a vaccuum, then get reheated again
almost to the melting point by re-entry, and soft land, all in 30 minutes or
less, and stay glass?
Beats the hell out of me.

Sterling Webb
---
Tom Knudson wrote:

> " Well, I gather that the major component of tektites is quartz-- and that
> quartz is very rare in meteorites"
>
> Well, do you know why? It is because the Quartz meteoroids can't seem to make
> it through Earths atmosphere, it always burns up and falls as tektites!
> : )
> Thanks, Tom
> peregrineflier <><
> IMCA 6168
> http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm
> http://fstop.proboards24.com/
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gerald Flaherty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 2:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Lunar origin of tektites
>
> > AH HAH !!
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 9:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Lunar origin of tektites
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 21:29:56 -0500, "tett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >But, Could this be ablated material from a meteorite that did make it
> to earth?  I would guess no.  I see this thin layer of glass vaporizing as it
> is created.  I don't think the physics are there to support this material.
> >
> > Well, I gather that the major component of tektites is quartz-- and that
> quartz is very rare in meteorites.
> > __
> >


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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Tektite pitting

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Bob, Marc, List,

The question of what has caused the shapes and surface features of tektites
has been a long term argument for most of a century.
When it comes to surface features, the opinions have been many.
Australites (for an example) come in a whole variety of surface textures.  The
grayish randomly rough surfaces are almost certainly the result of erosion,
either aeolian, fluvial, or possibly chemical weathering.  The gray color is
because they are essentially ground glass.
It has been shown that acid environments will attack a tektite and produce
such a surface . But the dark mirror-like smooth and glassy surfaces are
usually regarded as pristine and original.  They certainly look it.
Oddly, it possible to have both etched and unetched surfaces on the same
tektite.  I have a big chunker that is lenticular, hexagonal, with glassy
facets around the edges (both sides) and a frothy dark super-pitted chaos in
the centers.  Was it spinning wildly as it re-entered?  But the point is, the
froamy pitted surface (on both sides) could not be the result of erosion or
devitrification if the glassy surfaces on the same tektite are pristine and
untouched.
These dark and unscratched surfaces without a smooth mirror finish are the
puzzle; they show pitting, "worm track," and a bewildering array of fine detail
and specialized characteristics.  These have most frequently been held to be
aerodynamic re-entry effects.
Explaining all the observed features as aerodynamic in origin is challenge,
though.  For example, there is a sub-set of philippinites that have deep
prominent grooves, not numerous, that wander around the tektite in a connected
fashion.   (I think they are all rizalites from bikol province, but that's from
memory.)  These grooves are U-shaped in cross section, that cross section being
being very uniform in dimension.
And, here's the kicker, the walls of the grooves are pristine, glassy
mirror surfaces.  This would suggest that the grooves were cut by very hot
plasma in re-entry, but how?  They are a maddening aerodynamic puzzle.  The
grooves often intersect each other cleanly, usually at near 90 degrees.  But if
the damn thing is in re-entry plasma, why does it not surround the object
(compare to meteorites and their fusion crust.) and etch it everywhere or at
least on all sides but one.  And how to account for the differing orientations?

Tektites, BTW, almost never show the aerodynamic features we all know from
meteorites (nose cones, rollover lips, secondary and tertiary surfaces) except
for possible exception of "frothy" backsides, but since tektites are not blocky
like most meteorites, a backside is hard to identify.
This is damn odd, considering that both are rocks re-entering at the same
hypersonic velocities through the same atmosphere!  Possibly it's because many?
most? all? tektites are in the liquid or at least plastic phase for the
duration of the trip and do not resist aerodynamic forces like a nice cold rock
would.  Still, I'm bothered...
We know that at least some tektites are plastic when they land.  There's
the taffy-pull-and-break tektites of Ninninger.  And just ask Norm Lehrman
about "splatforms"!  And while you're at it, ask how come "starburst"
tektites?  At any rate, many of the surface features remain a puzzle as far as
exact mechanism is concerned.

Sterling Webb
---
Bob King wrote:

> I have always been fascinated with tektites and enjoy the topic. Regarding
> the pitted surfaces of indochinites and other tektites, is this a result of
> devitrification (or some other sort of erosive action) or were these pits
> formed at the time of creation from escaping gases and water vapor?
> Thanks for your help with the question.
> Bob
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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: If Park Forest Fell In 2005?

[Gerald Flaherty]

Happy Easter back at you Ryan! and to all who celebrate Easter on the List 
as well.
Jerry
- Original Message - 
From: "RYAN PAWELSKI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 12:46 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: If Park Forest Fell In 2005?


Just think, if the Park Forest meteorite had fallen this year instead of 
two years ago, kids would be outside with they're parents on Easter 
morning hunting for meteorites instead of eggs and chocolate!  Man O' Man, 
what fun that would have been! Now thats what I call an Easter eeg hunt! 
Too bad there isn't a fall on Easter Eve every year. I'd feel like a kid 
all over again, not being able to sleep that night, too excited while 
waiting in pure anticipation to see what the Easter Bunny had left. I 
guess we can all dream, can't we?  And speaking of dreams and candy, it 
reminds me of Willy Wonkas famous quote that Rob Wesel uses for the 
signature at the bottom of his emails. " We are the music makers...and we 
are the dreamers of the dreams." Maybe next year we'll all be out there on 
Easter morning hunting for egg-shaped meteorites with shells made of fresh 
black fusion crust. Mmmm. Oh boy, have I completely lost my mind or what? 
LOL

Happy Early Easter Everybody!
Ryan
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Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites

[Gerald Flaherty]

We live in exciting times! Jerry
- Original Message - 
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Graham Christensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 

Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites


Hi, Graham, List.
   The notion derives from the curious history of the "Chant Trace."  On
February 9,  1913, there were a huge rash of fireball reports stretching 
from
far Western Canada (Regina) across to upper New York state and New York 
City
itself.  The numbers of reports were in the hundreds or thousands, and 
they were
of "trains" of multiple fireballs that passed overhead, followed by more
"trains" of multiple fireballs, followed by more "trains" of multiple 
fireballs,
a show lasting 10-15 minutes at a time.
   This is highly unusual, to put it mildly.  A Canadian astronomer named 
Chant
investigated it at length and was able to plot a great circle path for 
these
events and to determine that the reports were chronologically compatible, 
that
is, in correct sequence.  He concluded that there actually had been a 
"train" of
hundreds of fireballs chasing themselves across North America.  He even 
found
reports from ships at sea, as far away as the South Atlantic off Brazil, 
that
matched up.  He published his results in the Journal of the Royal 
Astronomical
Society of Canada in 1913, but he never explained what would cause such a
remarkable event. It is now referred to as the "Chant Trace."
   In the 1950's, John O'Keefe jumped on the obvious conclusion (which
hopefully the sharp ones among us have already guessed) that the only way 
to
account for this was the decay of an object from low earth orbit!  He 
conducted
a search of 8,000 local newspapers across the US and Canada
for reports of such fireball trains and plotted the results on the map. 
He
discovered that there TWO stripes of fireball trains, parallel to each 
other but
with the second one displaced to the south.  Whatever the decaying object 
was,
it survived through TWO passes of the Earth's atmosphere.
   This argues a substantial object, big, massing millions of pounds, 
caught in
an gravitationally bound geocentric orbit!  Now, it may have been a 
"fresh"
capture, an object that approaches the Earth at low encounter velocities, 
glazes
the atmosphere, is captured, and immediately decays and breaks up, in 
which the
Earth has a second "moon" for a couple of hours.  OR, it could be the 
final
moments of a second "moon" that has been in place, undetected, for 
thousands or
millions of years.
   An object of a few hundred meters diameter would never have been 
detected
directly by XIXth century astronomy.  But there are all those anomalous
"transit" events from XIXth century astronomers, you know, often touted as 
proof
of the discovery of a new planet, intra-Mercurian.  There is a famous case 
of
such a detection during a solar eclipse which didn't pan out, and so 
forth.
Check discoveries of "Vulcan."  (No, not that Vulcan, Trekites!)
   O'Keefe coined the term "Cyrillids" for such objects, but it never 
caught
on. He proposed that the decay of short term natural satellites of a 
silicate
composition was the source of tektites, that the Earth had had four such 
"moons"
in the last 35 million years, each one creating a tektite strewn field in 
its
final decay, a perfectly good dynamic conclusion, but, you know, folks 
didn't
take to the notion of a lot of extra moons!
   The idea was revived in the past 20 years by somebody whose name I 
can't
remember, who threw in the notion of rings, also dynamically possible. 
That's
probably the article you saw.  I recall a popular article from the 
mid-80's that
was illustrated with an artist's rendering of a tropical island night 
scene
looking out over the ocean with the Earth's Rings arcing across the sky!
Personally, I like it. Why should Saturn have all the fun?

Sterling Webb

Graham Christensen wrote:
 I read an article in the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada journal 
that
said that the Earth once had a ring of tektites or a system of rings 
around it
and when the supercontinent pangea formed, the earth's gravitational field
became lop-sided and the tektite material in the ring ended up in an 
orbital
resonance with pangea and the tektites formed a clump or "ring arc" that 
was
directly over pangea at perigee. When pangea broke up, the resonance 
dissapeared
and the ring arc's orbit began to decay The shape and distribution of the
australasian tektite strewnfield and the ablasion characteristics of the
tektites is consistent with a ring arc's orbit decaying and eventually 
bringing
the material crashing to earth at a low angle.

 Furthermore, the tektites associated with the chesapeake bay crater may 
in
fact have been dragged down by the impactor's gravitational field as it 
passed
through or near the rings and this may be the case with other tektite 
fields as
well.

 I have

Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Tektite pitting

[Darren Garrison]

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:49:08 -0600, "Bob King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>result of devitrification (or some other sort of erosive action) or were 
>these pits formed at the time of creation from escaping gases and water 
>vapor? 

I say escaping gases.  Look at this tektite from my collection (I've had these 
around 20 years, LONG
before I had any meteorites.)  The flow-line run straight through the large 
pits, even changing
direction slightly within them.  That means that the pits had to predate the 
flow lines.  But then
some of the SMALL pits do interrupt the flow lines, meaning that they formed 
last.  I would suppose
the major gas/water packets bubbled out first, then the small ones.

http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/tektite_flowlines.jpg
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Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Lunar origin of tektites

[Tom Knudson]

" Well, I gather that the major component of tektites is quartz-- and that
 quartz is very rare in meteorites"

Well, do you know why? It is because the Quartz meteoroids can't seem to
make it through Earths atmosphere, it always burns up and falls as tektites!
: )
Thanks, Tom
peregrineflier <><
IMCA 6168
http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm
http://fstop.proboards24.com/
- Original Message -
From: "Gerald Flaherty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Lunar origin of tektites


> AH HAH !!
> - Original Message -
> From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 9:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Lunar origin of tektites
>
>
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 21:29:56 -0500, "tett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >But, Could this be ablated material from a meteorite that did make it
> >to
> >earth?  I would guess no.  I see this thin layer of glass vaporizing as
it
> >is created.  I don't think the physics are there to support this material
>
> Well, I gather that the major component of tektites is quartz-- and that
> quartz is very rare in
> meteorites.
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>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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>
>

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Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Lunar origin of tektites

[Gerald Flaherty]

AH HAH !!
- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Lunar origin of tektites

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 21:29:56 -0500, "tett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
But, Could this be ablated material from a meteorite that did make it 
to
earth?  I would guess no.  I see this thin layer of glass vaporizing as it
is created.  I don't think the physics are there to support this material
Well, I gather that the major component of tektites is quartz-- and that 
quartz is very rare in
meteorites.
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[meteorite-list] Wilcox Playa 003 and 005 Meteorites, Family Reunion

[MARK BOSTICK]

Hello list and Bob,
First, I would like to start off by giving a salute to Bob Vernish for his 
work at Wilcox Playa, and for his willingness to share information.  Most 
people are reluctant sharing find or possible find information.  As Vernish 
has shown, he is not.  Several of Vernish's Meteorite Times column have 
featured information on the Wilcox Playa meteorites and the area.  I think 
its safe to say, that in the process, Vernish has discovered, at least one 
more Arizona strewn field.  I will note, Wilcox has been hunted 
unsuccessfully many times and by many people.  Do how big is the strewn 
field or strewn fields?  My obvious concern is more on the H5-6 meteorites. 
I am betting it won't be that much, but I am also better their are other 
pieces out there.  How much?  Perhaps Bob will be able to answer these 
questions in a couple of years.

Paired meteorites Wilcox Playa 003 and Wilcox Playa 005, have been 
re-united. "Wilcox 05" will appear in the next Meteoritical Bulliten, and 
because of the pairing, I feel I have a little move to follow Bob's lead, 
and share more information on Wilcox Playa 003.

Wilcox Playa 003, is the second or three meteorites, that I am aware of, 
that was offered on ebay, by the finder.  Not counting any of us meteorite 
people of course, or those shown the Gold Basin or/and Franconia strewn 
fields.  I will note that all three auctions, have been in the last year.  
This is a great example, of because of the internet, finders are now more 
price savy.

More information on how I got the meteorite, and a letter from the finder 
can now be found in the first link below.  For information on Wilcox Playa 
005, you would do a little better, going to www.meteoritetimes.com, and 
reading Bob's column there.

Wilcox Playa 003
http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colwilcox.html
Wilcox Playa 005
http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colwilcox05.html
Clear Skies,
Mark Bostick
Wichita, Kansas
www.meteoritearticles.com
www.kansasmeteoritesociety.com
www.imca.cc
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Re: [meteorite-list] my collection.. link

[Lars Pedersen]

ups
http://home20.inet.tele.dk/stargazer/
here it is
:-)
Lars
- Original Message - 
From: "Lars Pedersen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 7:52 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] my collection


Hi
I have done a litle work.. experimenting. with how to make a 
website.

It is not a real wesite yet, but at least my curent collection can be seen 
there. no pictures yet.

well it is a start. on a collection... and a few tests on what is to 
become my website.

comments are wellcome
All the best
Lars
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[meteorite-list] my collection

[Lars Pedersen]

Hi
I have done a litle work.. experimenting. with how to make a 
website.

It is not a real wesite yet, but at least my curent collection can be seen 
there. no pictures yet.

well it is a start. on a collection... and a few tests on what is to 
become my website.

comments are wellcome
All the best
Lars 

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[meteorite-list] Re: Tektite pitting

[Bob King]

I have always been fascinated with tektites and enjoy the topic. 
Regarding the pitted surfaces of indochinites and other tektites, is this a 
result of devitrification (or some other sort of erosive action) or were 
these pits formed at the time of creation from escaping gases and water 
vapor? 
Thanks for your help with the question.
Bob 
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[meteorite-list] AD - ebay - museum pieces - correct link!

[Peter Marmet]

Hello list,

sorry, if the previous links did not work!

You can see all the auctions here:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZpema9

Peter Marmet

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Re: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay - museum pieces

[Peter Marmet]

Hello list,

sorry, if the links do not work.

You can see all the auctions here:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZpema9

Peter Marmet

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Re: [meteorite-list] TEKTITE ORIGINS IN IMPACT?

[AL Mitterling]

Hi Sterling,
Excellent post dealing with the yet unsolved origin of tektites. Your 
post is a must read for all!!! Perhaps when the Sun crosses the plane of 
the galaxy we get debris that could account for faster projectiles. I 
don't know if that coincides with the reversal of the magnetic field 
though. Food for thought (and for getting the knowledgeable to post 
comments). Best!

--AL Mitterling
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Re: [meteorite-list] Garmin etrex GPS question

[David Freeman]

Dear List, lost and found associates;
In the orienteering class I took at the Library last fall with the local 
search and rescue representative conducting the class, he had us in SW 
Wyoming set to NAD 27 CONUS datum as that is the age of the maps here 
the BLM and Sweetwater County uses. Also northing and easting will get 
search and rescue out to you faster.   A different world indeed.
Best,

Datumdave

DNAndrews wrote:
Pele,
Go to Main Menu, Setup, Units and set your GPS for Datum WGS 84, 
Statute Miles.  If you are corresponding to a US Geological Survey 7.5 
topo, you might want your position format as hddd°mm'ss.s".

Hope this helps,
Dave
Pelé Pierre-Marie wrote:
Hello to the List,
I know some of you use the etrex GPS (Garmin).
I would like to know how to configure it for the
western USA (California, Arizona, Nevada).
Which geodesic system should I use to have correct gps
coordinates in the USA ?
Thanks in advance,
Pierre-Marie PELE
www.meteor-center.com



   
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[meteorite-list] Re: If Park Forest Fell In 2005?

[RYAN PAWELSKI]

Just think, if the Park Forest meteorite had fallen this year instead of two 
years ago, kids would be outside with they're parents on Easter morning hunting 
for meteorites instead of eggs and chocolate!  Man O' Man, what fun that would 
have been! Now thats what I call an Easter eeg hunt! Too bad there isn't a fall 
on Easter Eve every year. I'd feel like a kid all over again, not being able to 
sleep that night, too excited while waiting in pure anticipation to see what 
the Easter Bunny had left. I guess we can all dream, can't we?  And speaking of 
dreams and candy, it reminds me of Willy Wonkas famous quote that Rob Wesel 
uses for the signature at the bottom of his emails. " We are the music 
makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams." Maybe next year we'll all be 
out there on Easter morning hunting for egg-shaped meteorites with shells made 
of fresh black fusion crust. Mmmm. Oh boy, have I completely lost my mind or 
what? LOL

Happy Early Easter Everybody!

Ryan
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Re: [meteorite-list] Lunar origin of tektites

[Marc Fries]

Greetings

   Actually, tektites that do not show signs of devitrification are very
rare.  I have a single bediasite myself, and the exterior is dotted with
small, dark pockets of devitrifying glass.  SE Asia tektites
routinely show pockmarks and pits that are the result of
devitrification at the surface, such as that seen in these pics:

http://www.mineralminers.com/html/tekmins.stm

   They were definately formed at very high temperatures, which is shown
not only in the degraded zircons you mentioned but again by the lack of
water.  Volatiles were driven off during formation.
   The void pockets containing a high vacuum are something of a quandry to
me - I still can't wrap my brain around the notion of forming a pocket of
vacuum!  Chondrules also contain glass inclusions that contain less than
10^-9 Torr vacuum.  There is a seller on ebay that maintains that some of
these contain a fluid in a particular meteorite, although it was shown
many moons ago that such things are the result of cutting fluid getting
sucked into them through small cracks.  But I digress...
   The lack of water in tektites probably allow them a longer terrestrial
life than obsidians.  You mentioned 15-25 Ma-old obsidians; I gave
tektites up to 100 Ma.  Sounds about right to me, although there's
probably a more accurate number out there somewhere.

   Oh, and I wouldn't expect much in the way of solar wind in tektite
inclusions.  They followed a suborbital trajectory so their residence time
above the Earth's atmosphere would be quite short; probably in terms of
minutes.  They would not escape the Earth's protective
magnetic field into the "densest" (very relative term) part of the solar
wind either.

Cheers,
MDF


> Hi, Marc, List,
>
> Tektites are glass but comparing them to obsidian is very misleading.
> If
> tektites decayed in terrestrial environs like obsidian, then there would
be a
> small number of tektites found in various stages of decay, especially
bediasites and georgiaites which are the oldest tektites.
> I've never heard of a degraded bediasite or georgiaite being found.
> (We
> should ask Norm Lehrman; he would know.)  The reason I'm pretty sure
that they've never been found is that any collector of tektites who
finds any tektite with any unusual characteristic will talk about its
unique attributes... forever.  You should hear me go on about why my
half-button australite is not the same as half of a button australite!
> While obsidian is a glass, it is formed at much lower temperatures.
> It
> is a "wet" glass with high water content, lots of dissolved gasses, and
partially melted xenoclasts.  Moreover, obsidian is often layered, which
contributes to rapid breakdown.  Even so, there's plenty of 15-25
million year old obsidian in pristine condition to be found.
> Tektites are the driest mineral known, with water content far lower
> than
> nuclear bomb glass, the next driest item on the list.  That tektites
were formed at extremely high temperatures is evidenced by the fact that
the Martha's Vineyard tektite, a rare and precious one and only outlyer
of the North American field, contains a zircon crystal that is partially
melted. I
> could go and look up the melting point of zircon because I can't
remember it,
> but it's very very high (3400 degrees?).
> Someone else mentioned in a post to the List that there are bubbles in
> tektites, thinking that they had terrestrial atmosphere in them.  Not
so. The bubbles in tektites either leaked (have atmosphere in them) or
they didn't, in which case they have a high class vacuum in the bubble
with pressures about equal to 40 km into space.  The only recovered gas
is Argon40, presumably from potassium decay, although there is one
report of helium detected in an intact bubble.  Helium?  Captured solar
wind?
>
> Sterling Webb
> ---

-- 
Marc Fries
Postdoctoral Research Associate
Carnegie Institution of Washington
Geophysical Laboratory
5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW
Washington, DC 20015
PH:  202 478 7970
FAX: 202 478 8901
-
I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen
currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally request
at:
http://www.anysoldier.com
(This is not an endorsement by the Geophysical Laboratory or the Carnegie
Institution.)
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Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Graham, List.

The notion derives from the curious history of the "Chant Trace."  On
February 9,  1913, there were a huge rash of fireball reports stretching from
far Western Canada (Regina) across to upper New York state and New York City
itself.  The numbers of reports were in the hundreds or thousands, and they were
of "trains" of multiple fireballs that passed overhead, followed by more
"trains" of multiple fireballs, followed by more "trains" of multiple fireballs,
a show lasting 10-15 minutes at a time.
This is highly unusual, to put it mildly.  A Canadian astronomer named Chant
investigated it at length and was able to plot a great circle path for these
events and to determine that the reports were chronologically compatible, that
is, in correct sequence.  He concluded that there actually had been a "train" of
hundreds of fireballs chasing themselves across North America.  He even found
reports from ships at sea, as far away as the South Atlantic off Brazil, that
matched up.  He published his results in the Journal of the Royal Astronomical
Society of Canada in 1913, but he never explained what would cause such a
remarkable event. It is now referred to as the "Chant Trace."
In the 1950's, John O'Keefe jumped on the obvious conclusion (which
hopefully the sharp ones among us have already guessed) that the only way to
account for this was the decay of an object from low earth orbit!  He conducted
a search of 8,000 local newspapers across the US and Canada
for reports of such fireball trains and plotted the results on the map.  He
discovered that there TWO stripes of fireball trains, parallel to each other but
with the second one displaced to the south.  Whatever the decaying object was,
it survived through TWO passes of the Earth's atmosphere.
This argues a substantial object, big, massing millions of pounds, caught in
an gravitationally bound geocentric orbit!  Now, it may have been a "fresh"
capture, an object that approaches the Earth at low encounter velocities, glazes
the atmosphere, is captured, and immediately decays and breaks up, in which the
Earth has a second "moon" for a couple of hours.  OR, it could be the final
moments of a second "moon" that has been in place, undetected, for thousands or
millions of years.
An object of a few hundred meters diameter would never have been detected
directly by XIXth century astronomy.  But there are all those anomalous
"transit" events from XIXth century astronomers, you know, often touted as proof
of the discovery of a new planet, intra-Mercurian.  There is a famous case of
such a detection during a solar eclipse which didn't pan out, and so forth.
Check discoveries of "Vulcan."  (No, not that Vulcan, Trekites!)
O'Keefe coined the term "Cyrillids" for such objects, but it never caught
on. He proposed that the decay of short term natural satellites of a silicate
composition was the source of tektites, that the Earth had had four such "moons"
in the last 35 million years, each one creating a tektite strewn field in its
final decay, a perfectly good dynamic conclusion, but, you know, folks didn't
take to the notion of a lot of extra moons!
The idea was revived in the past 20 years by somebody whose name I can't
remember, who threw in the notion of rings, also dynamically possible. That's
probably the article you saw.  I recall a popular article from the mid-80's that
was illustrated with an artist's rendering of a tropical island night scene
looking out over the ocean with the Earth's Rings arcing across the sky!
Personally, I like it. Why should Saturn have all the fun?

Sterling Webb

Graham Christensen wrote:

  I read an article in the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada journal that
said that the Earth once had a ring of tektites or a system of rings around it
and when the supercontinent pangea formed, the earth's gravitational field
became lop-sided and the tektite material in the ring ended up in an orbital
resonance with pangea and the tektites formed a clump or "ring arc" that was
directly over pangea at perigee. When pangea broke up, the resonance dissapeared
and the ring arc's orbit began to decay The shape and distribution of the
australasian tektite strewnfield and the ablasion characteristics of the
tektites is consistent with a ring arc's orbit decaying and eventually bringing
the material crashing to earth at a low angle.

  Furthermore, the tektites associated with the chesapeake bay crater may in
fact have been dragged down by the impactor's gravitational field as it passed
through or near the rings and this may be the case with other tektite fields as
well.

  I have the article here on paper but I can't find it on the internet. I'm not
sure if this has been posted before but if anyone's interested I could type up
the text and E-mail it to the list.

  ~
  Graham Christensen
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://www.geocities.com/aerol

[meteorite-list] AD - ebay - museum pieces

[Peter Marmet]

Hello list,

I have a few auctions ending in about 2 days:

Gujba, 21.8 g , museum piece!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44608&item=6163881196&rd=1

Quijinge, Pallasite, 10.36 g ,  rare!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44608&item=6163883413&rd=1

Saint-Severin, 27.6 g , size: 80 x 40 mm. a real museum piece!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44608&item=6163875479&rd=1

Dhofar 007, Eucrite,  7.35 g, stunnig slice!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44608&item=6163872396&rd=1

DaG 476 Martian, 0.364 g
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44608&item=6163885526&rd=1

Fredericksburg , rare hexaedrite, 11.2 g
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44608&item=6162367738&rd=1

Krasnojarsk, 0.55 g , type specimen of the pallasites!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44608&item=6162365240&rd=1

Udei Station, 21.6 g , wonderful slice!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44608&item=6162362934&rd=1

D'Orbigny, Angrite,  0.274 g , rarae, rare, rare!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44608&item=6162359399&rd=1

Sahara 98035 L/LL3 ,  5.44 g , chondrule festival! TKW only 640 g!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44608&item=6162360108&rd=1

Sikhote-Alin, stunningly shaped!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44608&item=6160187371&rd=1



...if you're bidding: good luck!

Peter Marmet

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[meteorite-list] Test - please delete

[Peter Marmet]

Test, please delete, thank you!
Peter Marmet

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[meteorite-list] TEKTITE ORIGINS IN IMPACT?

[Sterling K. Webb]

 

 THIS IS A (3nd) RE-POST OF EARLIER POST.  I NEVER GOT A COPY BACK.
 IF IT'S A DUPLICATE FOR YOU -- THERE'S ALWAYS 

 Hi,

 Hey! If Rob says he can't figure out a way to get tektites
 shipped in from the Moon, it's good enough for me,  But then, I
 never thought they came from the Moon.  The lunar origin theory
 is an old one.  In fact, all of the 40-odd theories of the origin
 of tektites are old (and most of them are odd, too).
 It might surprise meteorite fanciers to know that the
 argument over tektites goes back to the time when meteorites were
 still regarded as a myth or of being formed by thunder!  The
 first speculation about tektite origins dates from 1793, more
 than a decade before the French Academy was persuaded by the
 L'Aigle fall that rocks really did fall from the sky.
 To those with long memories, I will recall to them the late
 List member Darryl Futrell, who supported the lunar origin
 theory, more from geological evidence than orbital
 considerations.  I corresponded a lot with Darryl and I believe
 he did so more out of loyalty to the late John O'Keefe than being
 really convinced by the theory.
 Take a look at:







 The current "orthodox" theory of tektite origin is the impact
 theory:  that tektites are modified terrestrial surface rocks,
 modified by impact into molten drops, ejected into orbits above
 the atmosphere where they are rapidly cooled, which then re-enter
 the atmosphere at hypersonic velocities where they are re-heated
 and further modified in their descent to the surface of the
 Earth.
 It sounds perfectly reasonable.  It powerfully explains the
 great variety of tektite shapes and many other characteristics of
 tektites, and the unique limited distributions of tektites.  But
 there are problems -- huge problems -- with the theory.  Here a
 few, for which there has never been any satisfactory answers.

 1.  There are only four tektite-producing events in the past
 forty million years. (Maybe a few more, if you accept some odd
 single potential tektites, irghizites, and Lybian Desert Glass as
 tektites.) A giant question looms.  Since there many, many
 impacts in the last forty million years, why did only four of
 them produce tektites?
 The answer is not size: Botsumtwi (source of ivorites) is a
 tiny crater.
 The answer is not perfect matches to craters:  where is that
 giant australite-producing crater?
 All of the "big four" tektite-producing coincide with a
 reversal of the Earth's magnetic field.  Why?  And why only these
 impacts, and not the dozens of other?
 How are they different?

 2.  If tektites are produced by earth impact, why do tektites
 contain no, not any, trace of terrestrial materials?  That's
 right, boys and girls, there is no definitive trace of
 terrestrial origin in the composition of tektites.  So how do you
 produce them from an earth impact without touching the earth?
 The quick ones among you will guess that they are made from
 the impacting body.  Eergh!  I'm sorry, wrong answer.  They do
 not even vaguely resemble any extra-terrestrial material we know
 of.  And the impact experts say that it's impossible anyway.
 If you plot the terrestrial surface compositions that matches
 the tektite bulk composition, the odds of four random impacts
 hitting only those spots on Earth are about 120 to one.  Do you
 feel lucky?

 3.  There are many oddities in the distribution of tektites,
 described as non elliptical geographically limited strewn
 fields.  In the 1984 Shaw and Glassberg paper which is cited as
 the definitive proof of terrestrial origin (which it ain't), they
 cheerfully mention that one of the australites submitted for
 analysis (one that was recovered from the ocean off the
 australian coast), in not an australite at all.  Nope, it's an
 ivorite.
 Now, the "source crater" for ivorites is almost exactly 180
 degrees in latitude and longitude from where this tektite was
 found, so either it is an "antipodal" tektite or it rolled along
 the ocean bottom for a million years and 15,000 miles without
 abrading!
 And then in 1988, Alan Hildebrand published his analysis of
 two "tektites" found in a Mayan Temple at Tikal -- they are
 australites, perfectly ordinary australites in every way.  And
 yes, Tikal is almost exactly 180 degrees in latitude and
 longitude from Australia.
 So did they crawl off Australia, cross the Paci

Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Lunar origin of tektites

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Rob, List,

I haven't crunched a number in nearly forty years, which is why I
unhesitatingly accept Rob's million simulations (as saving a lot of work).

but the logic of the situation alone shows why it's unlikely that tektites

could not have come from the Moon.
Picture the moon in a paraboloidal pocket stuck nose-first into the
earth's gravity field. The center point of the paraboloid is where the
lunar and terrestrial gravity fields are equal and opposite, also known
as the L1 LaGrange point. The surface of the paraboloid is the null
sheet defined by all the points where the two fields balance, except
that all the other points except the central one have a small vector
directed toward the central point.
If an object reached the null sheet with almost no residual
velocity, it would fall toward the earth, depending on the direction of
its vector, accelerating toward the local escape velocity, which is just
a hair less than the complete escape velocity of 11,200 m/sec, because
while 320,000 km away is a long way, it isn't infinity. The hair less is
maybe 20-25 m/sec (ok, I didn't stop to calculate it, but it's like less
than highway speeds).
But if the object arrives at the null sheet with a small excess
velocity, say 50 m/sec, which is nevertheless greater than that "hair
less" velocity, then when it's accelerated toward the earth, it will
achieve more than earth's escape velocity (the square root of the sum of
the squares of the excess velocity and the local escape velocity).
If that object missed the earth (and its atmosphere), it would leave
the earth-moon system on a "no-return trajectory." (These are the last
words you want to hear if the object is a capsule with you in it!)
So, if objects are ejected from the moon's surface with less than
lunar escape velocity, they will fall back. If objects are ejected from
the moon's surface with more than a tiny excess velocity, they're gone.
Only a very, very small percentage of objects, with a small range of
low excess velocities will remain gravitationally bound to the
earth-moon system. All of these will eventually get to the earth (or its
atmosphere) because any object orbiting the earth with a semi-major axis
less than the moon's will be perturbed in eccentricity until its apogee
is lowered into the earth's atmosphere.
I know, the moon is just hanging there over the earth. Common
"sense" (earthbound human inituition) says things just ought to fall
down. But the truth is it's not the easiest thing to jump off the moon
and land on the earth. I would estimate that <1% of lunar ejecta would
make it to the earth through the mechanism of a gravitationally bound
orbit.
What about the rock that got away? That lucky rock, off on its own
heliocentric orbit, is in for a nasty surprise. Its orbit is virtually
the same as the earth's orbit. One lousy little rock sharing a nearly
identical orbit with a planet; it's like sleeping in the same bed with a
12,000 pound bear. Chances are good the bear will roll over in its
sleep. Most "escapees" (more than 50%) will be swept up by the earth
sooner or later, 10,000 years or more. Some (15%) will end up at the
Venus station. The fastest escapees will be the hardest to catch.
The survivors will get their own heliocentric orbit, however whacky,
most by achieving an orbit close enough to a very minor resonance with
Jupiter to get nudged out of the way, but Jupiter is likely to toss them
anywhere. A really tiny percentage (<0.1%) will end up on Mars (with a
transit time of up to 50,000,000 years), where they will, in the future,
be auctioned off on mBay by dealers who bought them in the bazaars on
the edge of the Vastitas Borealis.

Sterling Webb

"Matson, Robert" wrote:

> Hi Doug and List,
>
> Some of you (most of you?) are probably already aware of my position
> on the lunar origin of tektites, but for those who don't I'll throw
> in my two cents from the dynamics standpoint.  Short answer:  no dice.
>
> Years ago I didn't have an opinion or a vested interest one way or
> the other -- I was honestly curious if the lunar origin could be
> dynamically supported.  So I modeled it and ran millions of Monte
> Carlo simulations to see where either volcanic or lunar impact
> ejecta material would end up.  The answer is:  if an intercept is
> possible, it rains down on more than a hemisphere of the earth (as
> well as significant portions either back on the Moon or in solar
> orbit).  There is no natural way to favor a geographic region on
> the earth when the Keplerian trajectory origin is on the Moon.  The
> angular tolerances are just too tight.
>
> Lunar volcanism is an even more restrictive case since it requires
> the initial velocity vector to not only deviate significantly from
> the local lunar zenith direction, but in exactly the correct direction
> for an earth intercept.  Anything other than a direct intercept
> path on a pencil-thin beam re

Re: [meteorite-list] Lunar origin of tektites

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Marc, List,

Tektites are glass but comparing them to obsidian is very misleading. If
tektites decayed in terrestrial environs like obsidian, then there would be a
small number of tektites found in various stages of decay, especially
bediasites and georgiaites which are the oldest tektites.
I've never heard of a degraded bediasite or georgiaite being found.  (We
should ask Norm Lehrman; he would know.)  The reason I'm pretty sure that
they've never been found is that any collector of tektites who finds any
tektite with any unusual characteristic will talk about its unique
attributes... forever.  You should hear me go on about why my half-button
australite is not the same as half of a button australite!
While obsidian is a glass, it is formed at much lower temperatures.  It
is a "wet" glass with high water content, lots of dissolved gasses, and
partially melted xenoclasts.  Moreover, obsidian is often layered, which
contributes to rapid breakdown.  Even so, there's plenty of 15-25 million
year old obsidian in pristine condition to be found.
Tektites are the driest mineral known, with water content far lower than
nuclear bomb glass, the next driest item on the list.  That tektites were
formed at extremely high temperatures is evidenced by the fact that the
Martha's Vineyard tektite, a rare and precious one and only outlyer of the
North American field, contains a zircon crystal that is partially melted.  I
could go and look up the melting point of zircon because I can't remember it,
but it's very very high (3400 degrees?).
Someone else mentioned in a post to the List that there are bubbles in
tektites, thinking that they had terrestrial atmosphere in them.  Not so.
The bubbles in tektites either leaked (have atmosphere in them) or they
didn't, in which case they have a high class vacuum in the bubble with
pressures about equal to 40 km into space.  The only recovered gas is
Argon40, presumably from potassium decay, although there is one report of
helium detected in an intact bubble.  Helium?  Captured solar wind?

Sterling Webb
---
Marc Fries wrote:

> Howdy
>
>Let me point something out here...  The following email mentions the
> lack of tektites around the world relative to the number of impact
> craters.  That's to be expected.  Tektites are glass, which doesn't
> survive very long in your typical wet terrestrial environment (maybe
> 100 million years?).  Other glasses like obsidian meet the same fate -
> they devitrify, or turn into a fine powdery crystalline phase.  If
> you've ever seen snowflake obsidian, you've seen this process in
> action.
>That's why there are many more impact craters than tektite fields.  We
> will only see tektites from the handful of craters in the past 100 mA
> or so that had the right conditions to produce tektites.  Exactly what
> those conditions were is still up to debate.  One thing worth noting -
> each of the suspected source craters may have been underwater at the
> time of impact.  However, other craters were created underwater (i.e.
> Wetumpka) but didn't seem to produce tektites.  As an added twist,
> tektites contain no water whatsoever themselves.
>
> Cheers,
> MDF
>
> > Sterling,
> >
> > Fabulous exposition!  That one cost me some more
> > printer ink.  I do have a few questions and comments.
> >
> > No trace of terrestrial material?  I'm not sure I
> > understand.  If you mean no embedded clasts from the
> > target surface, I agree.  That is very odd,
> > considering the obvious plastic deformation of the
> > "splatforms".  But if you are talking composition, the
> > elemental and isotopic mix is (reportedly) quite
> > terrestrial looking.  I'm not sure what else one could
> > hope for.
> >
> > No matter where they came from, some should've skipped
> > around on top of the atmosphere and made their final
> > entry far from the main bulk of the fall.  You have
> > cited some really interesting examples.  Does your
> > emphasis on "antipodal points" have particular
> > significance?  For example, if an object narrowly
> > misses re-entry angles is the next best shot
> > antipodal?
> >
> > I am not at all content with the volume estimates for
> > the North American (Georgiaite/Bediasite) strewn
> > field.  Since we can only see the eroded edges of the
> > host strata, our perspective is very limited.  The
> > total recovered mass is trivial.  Some monstrous
> > assumptions are involved in the oft-quoted estimates.
> >
> > While on the subject of the North American tektites,
> > one of my favorite questions is why there is such a
> > marked difference between Georgiaites and Bediasites?
> > Some argue for melts sourced at different depths (and
> > target compositions) in the source crater, but this
> > doesn't strike a full chord with me.
> >
> > Regarding Rayleigh Taylor instability, you are way
> > beyond me.  But if I understand you (a little), part
> > of the problem is the lack of apparent m

Re: [meteorite-list] tektites

[Marc Fries]

Actually, ignore that last bit about the wet craters.   The Chesapeake was
dozens to hundreds of km offshore, and Bosumptwi may have been low-lying,
but Ries was high and dry at the time of impact.  SE Asia is anyone's
guess.

Cheers,
MDF

-- 
Marc Fries
Postdoctoral Research Associate
Carnegie Institution of Washington
Geophysical Laboratory
5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW
Washington, DC 20015
PH:  202 478 7970
FAX: 202 478 8901
-
I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen
currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally request
at:
http://www.anysoldier.com
(This is not an endorsement by the Geophysical Laboratory or the Carnegie
Institution.)
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Re: [meteorite-list] GRR!! Why aren't my E-mails getting through?!

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Graham, List,

I've sent a big long post about tektites through twice in the last 24 hours
without ever getting a copy back through the List.  It was also copied to Norm
Lehrman who got it and quoted it in his reply which did get to the List, but
the original has never made through!  I'm just going to send it again (and
again) until it makes it!
I don't why this happens, but it does occasionally.  Just keep plugging
away, is the only answer to the problem as far as I can see.  Make sure you
send as plain text. That helps.

Sterling Webb
-
Graham Christensen wrote:

> I've sent 6 E-mails in a row now that haven't gotten through. The first one
> was a week ago. WHAT IS GOING ON!?
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Lunar origin of tektites

[Marc Fries]

Howdy

   Let me point something out here...  The following email mentions the
lack of tektites around the world relative to the number of impact
craters.  That's to be expected.  Tektites are glass, which doesn't
survive very long in your typical wet terrestrial environment (maybe
100 million years?).  Other glasses like obsidian meet the same fate -
they devitrify, or turn into a fine powdery crystalline phase.  If
you've ever seen snowflake obsidian, you've seen this process in
action.
   That's why there are many more impact craters than tektite fields.  We
will only see tektites from the handful of craters in the past 100 mA
or so that had the right conditions to produce tektites.  Exactly what
those conditions were is still up to debate.  One thing worth noting -
each of the suspected source craters may have been underwater at the
time of impact.  However, other craters were created underwater (i.e.
Wetumpka) but didn't seem to produce tektites.  As an added twist,
tektites contain no water whatsoever themselves.

Cheers,
MDF

> Sterling,
>
> Fabulous exposition!  That one cost me some more
> printer ink.  I do have a few questions and comments.
>
> No trace of terrestrial material?  I'm not sure I
> understand.  If you mean no embedded clasts from the
> target surface, I agree.  That is very odd,
> considering the obvious plastic deformation of the
> "splatforms".  But if you are talking composition, the
> elemental and isotopic mix is (reportedly) quite
> terrestrial looking.  I'm not sure what else one could
> hope for.
>
> No matter where they came from, some should've skipped
> around on top of the atmosphere and made their final
> entry far from the main bulk of the fall.  You have
> cited some really interesting examples.  Does your
> emphasis on "antipodal points" have particular
> significance?  For example, if an object narrowly
> misses re-entry angles is the next best shot
> antipodal?
>
> I am not at all content with the volume estimates for
> the North American (Georgiaite/Bediasite) strewn
> field.  Since we can only see the eroded edges of the
> host strata, our perspective is very limited.  The
> total recovered mass is trivial.  Some monstrous
> assumptions are involved in the oft-quoted estimates.
>
> While on the subject of the North American tektites,
> one of my favorite questions is why there is such a
> marked difference between Georgiaites and Bediasites?
> Some argue for melts sourced at different depths (and
> target compositions) in the source crater, but this
> doesn't strike a full chord with me.
>
> Regarding Rayleigh Taylor instability, you are way
> beyond me.  But if I understand you (a little), part
> of the problem is the lack of apparent mixing of the
> target and impactor materials.  I have never heard of
> this lack.  Tiny Ni-Fe beads are reported in a variety
> of meteorites, and I have always believed (without
> proof) that the inky blackness of all but the
> moldavites might well be due to integration of
> impactor Fe.
>
> Your discussion involving the missing Australasian
> crater is excellent.  This thing cannot be easily
> hidden.  We should be able to still hear the earth
> ringing with reverbrations.  This is a huge problem.
>
> I am also perplexed by the objects that I term
> "splatforms"---tektites that have clearly "splatted"
> while still significantly plastic.  How far can a blob
> of molten glass travel before it cools sufficiently
> that it can no longer splat?  tens of kilometers?
> hundreds?  Splatforms are found from south China
> through Laos, Thailand, Vietnam---and of the
> Tibetanites are real, Tibet.  A huge area.  Exactly
> the same thing can be said for Muong Nongs.  Same
> areal distribution, no evidence of flight.
>
> Further, if you want a full kilo specimen, you'll have
> to go to the Philippines.  The big ones flew a long
> ways---but NOT to the far end of the strewn fiel like
> most meteorites.  Most Australites are relatively
> tiny.
>
> Antarctica.  Not a small point by any means.  Where
> are the tektites?
>
> Good stuff.  Keep on ruminating!
>
> Cheers,
> Norm
> http://taktitesource.com
>
>
>
> --- "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>  Hi,
>>
>>  Hey! If Rob says he can't figure out a way
>> to get tektites
>>  shipped in from the Moon, it's good enough for
>> me,  But then, I
>>  never thought they came from the Moon.  The
>> lunar origin theory
>>  is an old one.  In fact, all of the 40-odd
>> theories of the origin
>>  of tektites are old (and most of them are odd,
>> too).
>>  It might surprise meteorite fanciers to
>> know that the
>>  argument over tektites goes back to the time
>> when meteorites were
>>  still regarded as a myth or of being formed by
>> thunder!  The
>>  first speculation about tektite origins dates
>> from 1793, more
>>  than a decade before the French Academy was
>> persuaded by the
>>  L'Aigle fall that rocks really did fall from
>

Re: [meteorite-list] Garmin etrex GPS question

[DNAndrews]

Pele,
Go to Main Menu, Setup, Units and set your GPS for Datum WGS 84, Statute 
Miles.  If you are corresponding to a US Geological Survey 7.5 topo, you 
might want your position format as hddd°mm'ss.s".

Hope this helps,
Dave
Pelé Pierre-Marie wrote:
Hello to the List,
I know some of you use the etrex GPS (Garmin). 

I would like to know how to configure it for the
western USA (California, Arizona, Nevada).
Which geodesic system should I use to have correct gps
coordinates in the USA ?
Thanks in advance,
Pierre-Marie PELE
www.meteor-center.com

	
		
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Re: [meteorite-list] Garmin etrex GPS question

[Chris Peterson]

Almost all maps use WGS 84. Old maps are usually NAD 27. Nearly everyone 
uses the WGS 84 datum with their GPS units.

Chris
*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Pelé Pierre-Marie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "MeteoriteList" 
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 5:40 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Garmin etrex GPS question


Hello to the List,
I know some of you use the etrex GPS (Garmin).
I would like to know how to configure it for the
western USA (California, Arizona, Nevada).
Which geodesic system should I use to have correct gps
coordinates in the USA ?
Thanks in advance,
Pierre-Marie PELE
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[meteorite-list] eBay AD- Gold Basin, '869, Howardite, unclass Saharan

[thetoprok]

Hello List,
I have some great auctions ending soon. Winning bidders get free micro 
pic's CD with specimen!

Later tonight I will be putting a couple Norton County Aubrite micro's 
on as well!

Thanks,
Larry
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZalienrockfarm
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[meteorite-list] Garmin etrex GPS question

[Pelé Pierre-Marie]

Hello to the List,

I know some of you use the etrex GPS (Garmin). 

I would like to know how to configure it for the
western USA (California, Arizona, Nevada).

Which geodesic system should I use to have correct gps
coordinates in the USA ?

Thanks in advance,

Pierre-Marie PELE
www.meteor-center.com






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[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - March 26, 2005

[SPACEROCKSINC]

http://www.spacerocksinc.com/March26.html  

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[meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites

[Graham Christensen]

I read an article in the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada journal that 
said that the Earth once had a ring of tektites or a system of rings around 
it and when the supercontinent pangea formed, the earth's gravitational 
field became lop-sided and the tektite material in the ring ended up in an 
orbital resonance with pangea and the tektites formed a clump or "ring arc" 
that was directly over pangea at perigee. When pangea broke up, the 
resonance dissapeared and the ring arc's orbit began to decay The shape and 
distribution of the australasian tektite strewnfield and the ablasion 
characteristics of the tektites is consistent with a ring arc's orbit 
decaying and eventually bringing the material crashing to earth at a low 
angle.

Furthermore, the tektites associated with the chesapeake bay crater may 
infact have been dragged down by the impactor's gravitational field as it 
passed through or near the rings and this may be the case with other tektite 
fields as well.

I have the article here on paper but I can't find it on the internet. I'm 
not sure if this has been posted before but if anyone's interested I could 
type up the text and E-mail it to the list.

~
Graham Christensen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter
msn messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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[meteorite-list] GRR!! Why aren't my E-mails getting through?!

[Graham Christensen]

I've sent 6 E-mails in a row now that haven't gotten through. The first one 
was a week ago. WHAT IS GOING ON!? 

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[meteorite-list] Corrected links - Easter - not a Gibeon egg - something different

[Christian Anger]

Hi all,

I want o show you something different on Easter celebration days.
Not the usual Gibeon egg.

I want to show you a very funny inclusion in an unclassified NWA meteorite
of my collection (estimated type 3 chondrite) 

This one looks like a fried egg:

www.austromet.com/collection/NWA_Anger_135_49.8g_B.jpg

not found ? here more close :

www.austromet.com/collection/NWA_Anger_135_49.8g_C.jpg

still not found, closeup from the scope:

www.austromet.com/collection/NWA_Anger_135_49.8g_D.jpg

This feature is only 1 x 0.3 mm, but very interesting.

What could the yellow material be ?

Anyone has an idea ? Bernd ?


And I have some extraordinary meteorites from my private collection on ebay:

exceptional crusted Gujba Individual

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6521539979

another Gujba

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6521540259

Cumberland Falls

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6521540364

and some others too.

http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=austromet


Happy Easter to all,

Christian

IMCA #2673
www.austromet.com
 
Christian Anger
Korngasse 6
2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg
AUSTRIA
 
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[meteorite-list] Easter - not a Gibeon egg - something different

[Christian Anger]

Hi all,

I want o show you something different on Easter celebration days.
Not the usual Gibeon egg.

I want to show you a very funny inclusion in an unclassified NWA meteorite
of my collection (estimated type 3 chondrite) 

This one looks like a fried egg:

www.austromet.com/collection/NWA_Anger_135_49.8g_B.jpg

not found ? here more close :

www.austromet.com/collection/NWA_Anger_135_49.8g_B.jpg

still not found, closeup from the scope:

www.austromet.com/collection/NWA_Anger_135_49.8g_B.jpg

This feature is only 1 x 0.3 mm, but very interesting.

What could the yellow material be ?

Anyone has an idea ? Bernd ?


And I have some extraordinary meteorites from my private collection on ebay:

exceptional crusted Gujba Individual

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6521539979

another Gujba

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6521540259

Cumberland Falls

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6521540364

and some others too.

http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=austromet


Happy Easter to all,

Christian

IMCA #2673
www.austromet.com
 
Christian Anger
Korngasse 6
2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg
AUSTRIA
 
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [meteorite-list] Lunar origin of tektites

[drtanuki]

Dear Norman, Al, and List,
  In glasses, greens and blues can be created by iron.
 Thai tektites, Bedisites and Geogiaites are variable
in color; generally, they range from a dirty
brown-yellow-green.
  Modern glass makers have used deep purples and other
deep colors to create "black".  Iron in early man-made
glasses was used to create green and blue glasses. I
have studied early man-made and natural glasses for
more than 20 years and have several hundreds of
samples of both.  Chinese had glass by at least 250BC
and the Phonecians earlier.
  Darryl Futrell, in an email, once wrote that he had
knowledge of massive blue impact glasses in Patagonia
(sp?).  He went on to say that he had neither the
wealth or health to follow up to collect it.  Does
anyone have further information about this glass?  He
described blocks of several hundreds of pounds.
  I have no evidence for the Lunar origin of tektites
and have found much more evidence supporting an impact
origin.
  Best to you all.  I am headed back to Thailand,
Laos, and Cambodia in the next few weeks. 
 Dirk Ross...Tokyo



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