RE: [meteorite-list] Metachondrites?????????????
Aren't they those microscopic things in Starwars that give Luke Skywalker 'the power of the Force'. Sorry I couldn't resist !! :) -Original Message- From: Tom Knudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 5:31 AM To: met list Subject: [meteorite-list] Metachondrites? Okay list, what in the heck is a Metachondrite? Thanks, Tom peregrineflier __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - July 29, 2005
http://www.spacerocksinc.com/July29.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT: Wanted Kimberlites- Please kindly delete if not interested
Dear List, I am searching for kimberlites from as many locations as possible for a Japanese researcher interested in a possible relationship between between kimberlites and impact. I have specimens from Arkansas, Michigan, Wyoming, Kentucky, Colorado, Shandong China, Russia, Canada and South Africa; but perhaps not the same localities. If any Australian list members have access to Australian kimberlites I am especially interested. Thank you in advance to anyone that can help. Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Metachondrites??????? ??????
Hi Tom and List! I´m not sure what the meaning of Metachondrite is, but in geology Meta- stands for metamorphosis. So perhaps the person, who used this word, wanted to make clear, that this chondrite is complete changed in something else or more than other chondrites (shock is common). It´s not a classification term, that´s sure!!! Ingo/Germany --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Von: Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: met list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Metachondrites? Datum: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:30:37 -0700 Okay list, what in the heck is a Metachondrite? Thanks, Tom peregrineflier __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- GMX DSL = Maximale Leistung zum minimalen Preis! 2000 MB nur 2,99, Flatrate ab 4,99 Euro/Monat: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] way OT,windows XP help?
Hi Tom List Windows XP has a system restore feature. You can find it by clicking StartAll ProgramsAccessoriesSystem ToolsSystem Restore. By Using this feature you can go back to a time when your system was stable. So if you know it was ok a week ago, restore to then. Data shouldn't be effected but if you installed a program after that date it will almost certainly have to be reinstalled. Before you install any software or make any configuration changes you should use the system restore feature to set a point that you can restore to if the configuration changes make your system unstable. As viruses and spyware can also cause instability, check your antivirus patterns and anti spyware software are up to date and scan regularly, also have a firewall, if you only have the xp firewall make sure its on. Use the windows update to check for any critical windows updates and install them. Regards Ken -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Knudson Sent: 29 July 2005 04:21 To: met list Subject: [meteorite-list] way OT,windows XP help? Hey List, This is as OT as you can get, but I need to know if an XP file can be sent by email and I know someone on this list will know. : ) A system file got deleted by mistake and it is causing all kinds of comp problems. I can have my ex send me a copy of the file, but I do not know if it will work. It is the rundll32.exe file and I think it could be sent and placed in it's original location it may work, but at this point I do not want to make matters worse by trying it with out knowing it is safe to do? I could just get it of the XP cd, but found out that this e-machine does not come with a XP cd. Thanks, Tom peregrineflier __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New Kuiper Belt object-- possibly twice the size of Pluto
This could prove interesting-- will people a) try to call this a planet too b) not call this a planet but continue to call Pluto one c) admit that Pluto isn't really a full planet Be sure to check out the animation on the linked page http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7751 An object possibly twice the size of Pluto has been found - hiding in plain sight. The discovery could be the biggest world in the Kuiper belt of rocky objects that orbit the outer reaches of the solar system. The find suggests more such objects are waiting to be discovered and is likely to reignite the fierce debate about what constitutes a planet. On Thursday, an email with the subject, Big TNO discovery, urgent was sent to a popular astronomy mailing list. The message described the discovery of a very bright object that was creeping along slowly beyond the orbit of Neptune - making it a Trans-Neptunian Object, or TNO. Its exact size cannot be determined because the reflectivity of its surface is not known. But if the reflectivity is as dim as most other distant, rocky objects that have been studied, it could be twice as wide as Pluto, which is about 2300 kilometres across. Sleepless night Jose-Luis Ortiz, an astronomer at the Sierra Nevada Observatory in Spain, and colleagues discovered the object when they re-analysed observations they had made in 2003. Then, they scoured older archives and found the object in images dating back to 1955. Based on these so-called precoveries, they calculated the object's orbit and sent urgent emails asking people around the globe to observe the new find. Amateur observers Salvador Sanchez, Reiner Stoss, and Jaime Nomen found it on Thursday using a 30-centimetre telescope in Mallorca, Spain. I am not going to sleep tonight, said Stoss, a mechanical engineering student in Darmstadt, Germany. To find an object bigger than Pluto - it's like the X Prize, he said, referring to the $10 million prize for private spaceflight won in 2004. The observations were then verified by the International Astronomical Union's Minor Planet Center (MPC) in Cambridge, Massachusetts, US, which designated the object 2003 EL61. Time to move The MPC reports the object is about 51 Astronomical Units from the Sun - 1 AU is the distance between the Earth and the Sun. Its orbit brings it comes as close to the Sun as 35 AU, while Pluto maintains an average distance of about 39 AU. Someone should have found this before, Brian Marsden, director of the MPC, told New Scientist. One reason they did not is the object's speed, suggests Stoss. Many surveys of Near Earth Objects take a trio of images spaced 20 minutes apart to search for telltale movement in relation to background stars. But 2003 EL61 is too far away to detect its progress in that time. Ortiz's survey compares images taken a day apart. They give the object time to move, Stoss says. Another reason may be the plane of the object's orbit, says Tommy Grav, an astronomer at the University of Hawaii in Manoa, US. That plane is tilted by 28° with respect to the orbital plane of most planets, where surveys tend to scan the skies for Near Earth Objects. Off kilter 2003 EL61 is even more off-kilter than Pluto, which orbits in a plane tilted by 17°. Pluto was pushed out of the plane of the solar system when Neptune moved outwards soon after the solar system formed, Grav told New Scientist. It's possible this object has suffered something similar. The discovery, coupled with other recent finds such as Sedna and Quaoar, suggests other large objects may lurk in the murky region beyond Neptune. Some people have claimed we'd never find something as bright as this out there, says Grav. But there may be something even further out that's moving so slowly we haven't seen it yet. And the discovery is likely to revive previous fierce debates about what constitutes a planet and even how astronomical objects are named. But don't even start that discussion, Stoss jokes. He says future observations of the object's colour and brightness could reveal its true size, shape, rotation period, and any companion moons. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New World May Be Double Pluto's Size
http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn7751 New world may be double Pluto's size Maggie McKee New Scientist 29 July 2005 An object possibly twice the size of Pluto has been found - hiding in plain sight. The discovery could be the biggest world in the Kuiper belt of rocky objects that orbit the outer reaches of the solar system. The find suggests more such objects are waiting to be discovered and is likely to reignite the fierce debate about what constitutes a planet. On Thursday, an email with the subject, Big TNO discovery, urgent was sent to a popular astronomy mailing list. The message described the discovery of a very bright object that was creeping along slowly beyond the orbit of Neptune - making it a Trans-Neptunian Object, or TNO. Its exact size cannot be determined because the reflectivity of its surface is not known. But if the reflectivity is as dim as most other distant, rocky objects that have been studied, it could be twice as wide as Pluto, which is about 2300 kilometres across. Sleepless night Jose-Luis Ortiz, an astronomer at the Sierra Nevada Observatory in Spain, and colleagues discovered the object http://www.iaa.es/~ortiz/brighttno.html when they re-analysed observations they had made in 2003. Then, they scoured older archives and found the object in images dating back to 1955. Based on these so-called precoveries, they calculated the object's orbit and sent urgent emails asking people around the globe to observe the new find. Amateur observers Salvador Sanchez, Reiner Stoss, and Jaime Nomen found it on Thursday using a 30-centimetre telescope in Mallorca, Spain. I am not going to sleep tonight, said Stoss, a mechanical engineering student in Darmstadt, Germany. To find an object bigger than Pluto - it's like the X Prize, he said, referring to the $10 million prize for private spaceflight won in 2004. The observations were then verified by the International Astronomical Union's Minor Planet Center (MPC) in Cambridge, Massachusetts, US, which designated the object 2003 EL61. Time to move The MPC reports the object is about 51 Astronomical Units from the Sun - 1 AU is the distance between the Earth and the Sun. Its orbit brings it comes as close to the Sun as 35 AU, while Pluto maintains an average distance of about 39 AU. Someone should have found this before, Brian Marsden, director of the MPC, told New Scientist. One reason they did not is the object's speed, suggests Stoss. Many surveys of Near Earth Objects take a trio of images spaced 20 minutes apart to search for telltale movement in relation to background stars. But 2003 EL61 is too far away to detect its progress in that time. Ortiz's survey compares images taken a day apart. They give the object time to move, Stoss says. Another reason may be the plane of the object's orbit, says Tommy Grav, an astronomer at the University of Hawaii in Manoa, US. That plane is tilted by 28° with respect to the orbital plane of most planets, where surveys tend to scan the skies for Near Earth Objects. Off kilter 2003 EL61 is even more off-kilter than Pluto, which orbits in a plane tilted by 17°. Pluto was pushed out of the plane of the solar system when Neptune moved outwards soon after the solar system formed, Grav told New Scientist. It's possible this object has suffered something similar. The discovery, coupled with other recent finds such as Sedna and Quaoar, suggests other large objects may lurk in the murky region beyond Neptune. Some people have claimed we'd never find something as bright as this out there, says Grav. But there may be something even further out that's moving so slowly we haven't seen it yet. And the discovery is likely to revive previous fierce debates about what constitutes a planet and even how astronomical objects are named. But don't even start that discussion, Stoss jokes. He says future observations of the object's colour and brightness could reveal its true size, shape, rotation period, and any companion moons. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4726733.stm Distant object found orbiting Sun By Dr David Whitehouse BBC News website Astronomers have found a large object in the Solar System's outer reaches. It is being hailed as a great discovery. Details of the object are still sketchy. It never comes closer to the Sun than Neptune and spends most of its time much further out than Pluto. It is one of the largest objects ever found in the outer Solar System and is almost certainly made of ice and rock. It is at least 1,500km (930 miles) across and may be larger than Pluto, which is 2,274km (1,400 miles) across. The uncertainty in estimates of its size is due to errors in its reflectivity. It might be a large, dim object, or a smaller, brighter object. Whatever it is, astronomers consider it a major discovery. In 2004 scientists discovered Sedna, a remote world that is 1,700 km across. Frantic
Re: [meteorite-list] Q: Good Source for Plastic Display Stands?
Hi John et al., You might try these guys as well; they have provided nice inexpensive material for me: http://www.jule-art.com/ Regards, Jim Baxter Hi Norm, Susan Tom and thanks for your help and rapid resonses! We will check those sources out. Cheers -John --- Norm Lehrman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John list, Try http://www.amlap.com/alw/page4.html for starters. Regards, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- Arizona Skies Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all...does anyone know of a good website for plastic display stands? Thanks in advance! -John Arizona Skies Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Arizona Skies Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Metachondrite
Tom inquired: what in the heck is a metachondrite? Ingo responded: ... in geology Meta- stands for metamorphosis ... Hi Tom, Ingo, and List, I think what Tom saw was a compound word: met + achondrite = meteorite - achondrite Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The metachondrite question answered
Hey List, I found out what a metachondrite is, I guess, if someone wants to convert it to english, well it's in english, but it is all latin to me!!! : ) Metachondrites: Recrystallized and/OR Residual MANTLE Rocks From Multiple, LARGE Chondritic Parent Bodies. A. J. Irving1, T. E. Bunch2, D. Rumble, III3 and T. E. Larson4, 1Earth Space Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 2Dept. of Geology, Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff, AZ 86011; 3Geophysical Laboratory, Washington, DC 20015; 4Los Alamos National Laboratory, NM 87545. Although the concept that multiple, relatively large, and differentiated planetary bodies existed in the early asteroid belt is not new [1], only recently has evidence from meteorite samples has been marshalled to support this idea [2]. The recovery of new specimens from Northwest Africa has made it possible to forensically reconstruct such planetary bodies from fragments representing core, mantle, crust and regolithic rocks. This relies on the assumption that such fragments will share common oxygen isotopic signatures. Some specimens are highly recrystallized rocks devoid of chondrules which possibly represent mantle samples. The term primitive achondrite has been applied to such rocks; yet, if they are texturally evolved rocks from chondritic precursors, we suggest that metachondrite is a better term. Metachondrite Groups: At least five different groups of metachondrites can be recognized, and each can be affiliated with a specific chondrite class utilizing oxygen isotopes: CV NWA 3133, NWA 1839 [2] CR NWA 3100, Tafassasset, LEW 88763 [2] CH Lodranites, acapulcoites [3] NWA 1463, NWA 1058 Winonaites (+ IAB irons) H NWA 2353, NWA 2635, NWA 3145 (+ IIE irons) Unique chondrites NWA 1463 [4] and NWA 1058 [5] may represent the regolith of the winonaite parent body [3]. Since these specimens contain obvious chondrules, they should not be termed achondrites (despite a likely genetic relationship). Metachondrites From the H Chondrite Parent Body: NWA 2353 (paired with NWA 3145) and NWA 2635 have polygonal-granular textures, no chondrules and, respectively: mean grainsize (0.2; 0.5 mm), olivine (Fa17.9-18.7, FeO/MnO = 34-38; Fa18.9, FeO/MnO = 35), orthopyroxene (Fs15.6Wo3.1 to Fs16.6Wo4.2, FeO/MnO = 19-26; Fs16.8Wo2.9, FeO/MnO = 20), plagioclase (An12.3Or6.7 to An27.4Or2.8; An15.1Or4.7), with accessory metal, chromite, merrillite and troilite. Clinopyroxene (Fs7.4Wo43.4 to Fs8.5Wo40.4, FeO/MnO = 16-22) occurs only in NWA 2353/3145. Their oxygen isotopic compositions (d18O = 5.51, 5.10; d17O = 3.31, 3.16; D17O = +0.440, +0.510 per mil for NWA 2353; d18O = 3.23, 2.98; d17O = 5.03, 4.37; D17O = +0.575, +0.676 per mil for NWA 2635) overlap those of H chondrites [6] and IIE irons [7]. References: [1] Wetherill G. 1992 Icarus, 100, 307-325; Chambers J. and Wetherill G. 2001 MAPS, 36, 381 [2] Irving A. et al. 2004 EOS, 85, #P31C-02; Bunch T. et al. 2005 LPS XXXVI, #2308 [3] Rumble D. et al. 2005 68th Met. Soc. Mtg., #5138 [4] Benedix G. et al. 2003 66th Met. Soc. Mtg., #5125 [5] Russell S. et al. 2003 Met. Bull. 87 [6] Clayton R. et al. 1991 GCA, 55, 2317-2337 [7] Clayton R. and Mayeda T. 1996 GCA, 60, 1999-2018. Thanks, Tom peregrineflier __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The metachondrite question answered
Huh. anyone to sell a parachondrite? Stefan? - Original Message - From: Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: met list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 6:41 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The metachondrite question answered Hey List, I found out what a metachondrite is, I guess, if someone wants to convert it to english, well it's in english, but it is all latin to me!!! : ) Metachondrites: Recrystallized and/OR Residual MANTLE Rocks From Multiple, LARGE Chondritic Parent Bodies. A. J. Irving1, T. E. Bunch2, D. Rumble, III3 and T. E. Larson4, 1Earth Space Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 2Dept. of Geology, Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff, AZ 86011; 3Geophysical Laboratory, Washington, DC 20015; 4Los Alamos National Laboratory, NM 87545. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] The metachondrite question answered
Well, here is my stab at it. This sorta goes back to posts on the list a while back regarding the difference between achondrites, impact melts, etc. First a little background. If a rock (meteorite) has a bulk composition that is basically unchanged from that of the solar nebula, it's a chondrite. It may or may not have chondrules. It may have completely or partially melted at some time. It may have been altered somewhat by aqueous or thermal processes. But, if the bulk composition is basically unchanged, it's a chondrite. If you take such a rock and either melt it or partially melt it and let it recrystallize into rocks with different compositions, you now have differentiated rocks. There are two basic ways this happens. If you melt the whole thing and then cool it slowly, higher temperature minerals will crystallize first. Given enough time before others minerals crystallize and get in the way, these minerals will settle out and accumulate on the floor of the magma chamber. On a bigger scale this is also how you get a fully differentiated body with a core, etc. Then lower temperature minerals will crystallize and you end up with a layered structure. If you sample the entire body, you will still get a chondritic composition. The Earth should have an overall chonrdritic composition if we were able to properly sample the whole thing. However, normally you can only hold in your hand and analyze a fragment of that whole structure. For example, an earth mantle or crust rock or a meteorite that someone picked up. This would be how (we assume) that the eucrites and diogenites formed, for example. Cumulate eucrites are eucrites where you can see the crystal textures that form based on this accumulation model, as another example. Another way to create a differentiated rock is to partially melt the chondrite and draw this melt off to crystallize somewhere else. The high temperature minerals that didn't melt are left to form a new rock in place, while the melt of lower temp minerals recrystallizes somewhere else. Again, if you analyzed the entire mass of both rocks, you'd get a chondritic bulk composition. However, looking at samples of the individual rocks, you get something else; they are differentiated. If you have a rock that is differentiated yet not terribly altered from the original chondritic precursor, it will generally be referred to as a primitive achondrite. More dramatically altered rocks (the HED group for example) are considered more 'evolved' I guess is the way to put it. Another background piece. While we talk about a chondritic composition for the solar nebula, there was clearly some variation, particularly with regard to volatile elements. The closer to the Sun, the fewer of the lighter volatile elements. By the same token, the isotopic ratios of elements varied. The Earth/moon system has a bulk oxygen isotopic ratio that is different from Mars, which is different than meteorites, etc. It is sometimes assumed that each body, or at least bodies that formed at different distances from the Sun, have different oxygen isotope ratios. Now for the abstract that is the actual subject of your question. The abstract basically describes the work that this group did on primitive achondrites. They are assuming that these rocks represent mantle rocks or early samples of mantle rocks. They group these into categories of meteorites that share oxygen isotope ratios, along with other classes of meteorites with similar ratios, assuming then that these meteorites came from the same parent body or at least from bodies that formed in the same area of 'collection zone' in the solar system. Almost of as an aside, they propose that these primitive achondrites be called metachondrites apparently because they assume they are formed metamorphically (through heat, pressure, etc.) from chondritic precursor materials. That is the end of my impartial 'translation' based on what I know of geology. My personal slant is that I think primitive achondrite is a more useful description. I don't think calling a rock a metachondrite because it was derived from a chondrite is terribly helpful, because until we identify a meteorite that made it here from some other solar nebula besides our own, every rock is derived from a chondrite. On the other hand, I think primitive achondrite tells me a lot about a rock and how it relates to the other classes of meteorites that I'm familiar with, without any additional information. However, this is obviously just my opinion. Anyone else on the list care to elaborate or see a correction to be made in my stab at the geology here? Frank Prochaska -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Knudson Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 8:41 AM To: met list Subject: [meteorite-list] The metachondrite question answered Hey List, I found
[meteorite-list] Tom's NWA 2905 and NWA 2906
Hello Tom and List, I would like to congratulate Tom on having his NWA 2905 and NWA 2906 chondrites officially classified by Ted Bunch from NAU, who is presently writing up the classifications for these two stones. T.E. Bunch has classified such scientifically important NWA meteorites as NWA 032 (LUN-B), NWA 770 (CH), NWA 771 (AURE), NWA 772 (CK3), etc., etc. Ted told Tom that his NWA 2905 is an L4 and I had the pleasure of taking several digital pics of its gorgeous, gray chondrules and the dark pockets that may be carbonaceous xenoliths. Thanks Tom for the 4-gram slice. Ted also said Tom's NWA 2906 is an L4 breccia *unpaired* with NWA 869. T.E. Bunch in a private mail to Tom Knudson: Your stone is not 869. And Ted surely knows what he is saying after having helped sort out odd balls from 400 kg of NWA 869. Tom was also kind enough to send me a 7.6-gram slice of NWA 2906 so I was able to compare it to my NWA 869 pieces and to take two digital pictures of a conspicuously gray, kidney-shaped, probably achondritic inclusion. Never before have I seen something like that in any of my NWA 869 pieces and with T.E. Bunch's expertise we can be sure NWA 2906 is different from NWA 869! If anyone is interested in the pics I took, Tom will surely be glad to share them! Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tom's NWA 2905 and NWA 2906
Hello Bernd and List, I am very happy with these two stones and am looking forward to getting the official info back on them. There was questions about NWA 2906 being paired with NWA 869 and like Bernd said, I asked Ted Bunch and with his permission, I am quoting his answer; I have over 50 reference slices of 869 - we are doing a research project on this stone. In addition, I helped T. Boswell sort out odd balls from 400 kg 869. I have seen a lot of 869 and it does have many variations. Your stone is not 869. To me, if Ted says so, it is good enough for me! : ) Thanks, Tom peregrineflier - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:44 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Tom's NWA 2905 and NWA 2906 Hello Tom and List, I would like to congratulate Tom on having his NWA 2905 and NWA 2906 chondrites officially classified by Ted Bunch from NAU, who is presently writing up the classifications for these two stones. T.E. Bunch has classified such scientifically important NWA meteorites as NWA 032 (LUN-B), NWA 770 (CH), NWA 771 (AURE), NWA 772 (CK3), etc., etc. Ted told Tom that his NWA 2905 is an L4 and I had the pleasure of taking several digital pics of its gorgeous, gray chondrules and the dark pockets that may be carbonaceous xenoliths. Thanks Tom for the 4-gram slice. Ted also said Tom's NWA 2906 is an L4 breccia *unpaired* with NWA 869. T.E. Bunch in a private mail to Tom Knudson: Your stone is not 869. And Ted surely knows what he is saying after having helped sort out odd balls from 400 kg of NWA 869. Tom was also kind enough to send me a 7.6-gram slice of NWA 2906 so I was able to compare it to my NWA 869 pieces and to take two digital pictures of a conspicuously gray, kidney-shaped, probably achondritic inclusion. Never before have I seen something like that in any of my NWA 869 pieces and with T.E. Bunch's expertise we can be sure NWA 2906 is different from NWA 869! If anyone is interested in the pics I took, Tom will surely be glad to share them! Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 7/28/2005 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Metachondrite
I've never Metachondrite I didn't like, poikilitically speaking that is. (a thousand pardons ;-) Bob Original Message: - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 29 Jul 2005 16:11:44 UT To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Metachondrite Tom inquired: what in the heck is a metachondrite? Ingo responded: ... in geology Meta- stands for metamorphosis ... Hi Tom, Ingo, and List, I think what Tom saw was a compound word: met + achondrite = meteorite - achondrite Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The metachondrite question answered
Hi Martin, I'll sell Stefan as many pairs as he wants :-) --AL (who should know better) Martin Altmann wrote: Huh. anyone to sell a parachondrite? Stefan? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - July 29, 2005
http://www.spacerocksinc.com/July29.html .. as if you were looking at our Milky Way under a perfectly dark, absolutely pollution-free sky. Thanks for sharing it! BTW, which W e l l m a n is it? Wellman (a, b, c, d, e)? Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - July 29, 2005
Hello Bernd, Steve and list, Re: http://www.spacerocksinc.com/July29.html Bernd asked: Which W e l l m a n is it? Wellman (a, b, c, d, e)? With the green inclusions, that looks like the still somewhat new Wellman f. http://www.spacerocksinc.com/July29.html It is hard to take photographs of the meteorite, but I have a closeup view in my collection gallery pages... http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colwellmanf.html Clear Skies, Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New Solar System World Has A Moon (2003 EL61)
http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn7758-new-solar-system-world-has-a-moon.html New solar system world has a moon Jeff Hecht New Scientist 29 July 2005 Newly disclosed observations of the giant world revealed on Friday to orbit in the outer solar system show that it has a moon. But although initial calculations suggested the Kuiper Belt object could be up to twice as big as Pluto, the new data indicates it is about 70% the diameter of that planet. This makes its size second only to Pluto itself among objects beyond Neptune. The new object has been temporarily named 2003 EL61 by the Minor Planet Center at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Massachusetts, US, and was first spotted by Jose-Luis Ortiz at the Sierra Nevada Observatory in Spain in 2003. Ortiz's group uncovered observations as far back as 1955, and after additional observations reported its orbit to the Minor Planet Center. When he first saw how bright the object was, Gareth Williams of the Minor Planet Center could not believe it was as far from the Sun as Ortiz claimed - 51 times further away than the Earth. However, he quickly found two images of the object in the online Digital Sky Survey, and posted it on a confirmation page on the Minor Planet Center's website. Half an hour later, German amateur astronomers announced they had found it where predicted. But more was to come. After Williams put out a notice of the new object and its orbit the evening of 28 July, Mike Brown of Caltech in California, US, said his group had discovered the same object in 2004 - and in January 2005 had spotted a moon orbiting it using the Keck Observatory in Hawaii. Mass by moon The moon is not the first discovered around a Kuiper Belt object, but it is the smallest, only about 1% the mass of 2003 EL61. More importantly, observations of the satellite's 49-day orbit allowed Brown to precisely calculate the masses of both 2003 EL61 and its moon. Brown's results - posted on his website http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/ - show the object is about 32% as massive as Pluto. Assuming its composition is similar, that implies its diameter is about 70% of Pluto's, or about 1600 kilometres. That would probably make it larger than Sedna, an object beyond the Kuiper Belt discovered earlier by Brown's group. Brown had not made his findings public because he was waiting for infrared data from the Spitzer Space Telescope, which he could use to calculate how much visible light 2003 EL61 reflected. That would allow him to calculate its size more precisely. Taking a chance He finally received that data on 22 July, and is still in process of analysing it. We could have announced the object earlier, but we took a chance that no one else would find it while we were awaiting our observations from Spitzer, Brown writes on his web site. We were wrong, so the Spanish group earned credit for the discovery. Williams is surprised the object had not been spotted earlier. Although its motion in the sky is very slow: It's bloody bright, he told New Scientist. If it was in the main asteroid belt, it would be visible to the unaided eye in a dark sky, one to two magnitudes brighter than Vesta, the brightest object in the main belt. Even far beyond Neptune, it is bright enough for amateur astronomers to have captured images of it without recognising its motion. -- Large New World Discovered Beyond Neptune By Robert Roy Britt space.com 29 July 2005 A newfound object in our solar system's outskirts may be larger than any known world after Pluto, scientists said today. It also has a moon. Designated as 2003 EL61, the main object in the two-body system is 32 percent as massive as Pluto and is estimated to be about 70 percent of Pluto's diameter. Other news reports that the object could be twice as big as Pluto are false, according to two astronomers who found the object in separate studies and another expert who has analyzed the data. If the mass is only one-third that of Pluto, then theory holds that it can't be larger than Pluto, according to Brian Marsden of the Minor Planet Center, which serves as a clearinghouse for data on all newfound objects in the solar system. Marsden, who was not involved in the discovery but has reviewed the data, told SPACE.com that the mass estimate is very firm, within 1 or 2 percent. I don't think it is bigger than Pluto, he said. Where it fits in This is still a big world, once again raising the prospect that something larger than Pluto might still lurk out there. Scientists base their size calculations in part on the object's reflectivity. Since they don't know exactly how much the surface brightness of distant objects varies, there is some wiggle room in their size estimates. A team led by Mike Brown of Caltech has been observing 2003 EL61 for a year but was seeking more data before announcing the discovery. Brown said today it may possibly be larger than
[meteorite-list] Ice lake found on the Red Planet
A giant patch of frozen water has been pictured nestled within an unnamed impact crater on Mars. The photographs were taken by the High Resolution Stereo Camera on board Mars Express, the European Space Agency probe which is exploring the planet. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4727847.stm Regards Ken O'Neill __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] wellman(f)
Hi list.The pictured meteorite of today is WELLMAN (F).It is the one that was found by McCartney Taylor.I do remember stating to mike which one it was.155 gram of joy!It really is a nice piece.I hope this clears it up. steve Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ice lake found on the Red Planet
That is really amazing if it is true. It is somewhat surprising that a 7-8 mile diameter frozen lake wasn't spotted sometime ago with all the surveying of the planet's surface that has been conducted. Cool! -John --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A giant patch of frozen water has been pictured nestled within an unnamed impact crater on Mars. The photographs were taken by the High Resolution Stereo Camera on board Mars Express, the European Space Agency probe which is exploring the planet. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4727847.stm Regards Ken O'Neill __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Arizona Skies Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ice lake found on the Red Planet
Nothin' new, actually: From Odyssey, 2002: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/odyssey_update_020301.html From Mars Express, 2004: http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMYKEX5WRD_0.html Great pic, tho, and I bet the low-G ice skating is awesome. Cheers, MDF That is really amazing if it is true. It is somewhat surprising that a 7-8 mile diameter frozen lake wasn't spotted sometime ago with all the surveying of the planet's surface that has been conducted. Cool! -John --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A giant patch of frozen water has been pictured nestled within an unnamed impact crater on Mars. The photographs were taken by the High Resolution Stereo Camera on board Mars Express, the European Space Agency probe which is exploring the planet. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4727847.stm Regards Ken O'Neill __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Arizona Skies Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Marc Fries Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 - I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally request at: http://www.anysoldier.com (This is not an endorsement by the Geophysical Laboratory or the Carnegie Institution.) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - July 29, 2005
Super imagery Bernd, nice photo Steve. Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 3:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - July 29, 2005 http://www.spacerocksinc.com/July29.html .. as if you were looking at our Milky Way under a perfectly dark, absolutely pollution-free sky. Thanks for sharing it! BTW, which W e l l m a n is it? Wellman (a, b, c, d, e)? Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - July 29, 2005
Hi Bernd, my favourite metaphoric meteorite for the night sky is El Kachla, myriads of metal flakes from the tiniest speck to large 1 mag blobs in a bottomless black matrix. Not randomly squirted, but in dynamic streams around silent islands Quiet Doug, it's not an AD, I'm sold out. Perhaps me ask Uncle Twelker for some more. Here a not even find pic, which doesn't show the brilliance of this melt at FectayBidaut (which should have still quite an amount): http://www.meteorite.fr/en/images/forsale/ElKachla.jpg Buckleboo! Martin - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - July 29, 2005 http://www.spacerocksinc.com/July29.html .. as if you were looking at our Milky Way under a perfectly dark, absolutely pollution-free sky. Thanks for sharing it! BTW, which W e l l m a n is it? Wellman (a, b, c, d, e)? Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Astronomers at Palomar Observatory Discover a 10th Planet Beyond Pluto
http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/planetlila/index.html Astronomers at Palomar Observatory Discover a 10th Planet Beyond Pluto Mike Brown, Caltech July 29, 2005 The planet, with the current temporary name 2003 UB313, was discovered in an ongoing survey at Palomar Observatory's Samuel Oschin telescope by astronomers Mike Brown (Caltech), Chad Trujillo (Gemini Observatory), and David Rabinowitz (Yale University). We have proposed a name to the IAU and will announce it when that name is accepted. It is bigger than Pluto!!! Usually when we find these we don't know their size for certain, only lower limits. The lower limit to this object is the size of Pluto. This object is at least the size of Pluto and likely a bit larger. Check back for more information as we post it over the weekend. Note that this object is NOT 2003EL61, announced yesterday by Jose Ortiz. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Astronomers at Palomar Observatory Discover a 10th Planet Beyond Pluto
Some new info direct from Mike Brown: o 2003 UB313 is larger then Pluto in diameter, but no larger than twice Pluto's diameter o Based on Spitzer measurements 2005 FY9 is confirmed to be smaller than Pluto o Attempts to measure 2003 UB313 with Spitzer did not yield any useful data o The satellite around 2003 EL61 has a 49-day orbital period o The surface of 2003 UB313 is similar to Pluto, and it has methane o They had intended to announce their discoveries in a couple of months, but their website was hacked into, which prompted them to announce them today. Ron Baalke __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Scientists Discover Tenth Planet (2003 UB313)
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2005/jul/HQ_05209_10th_Planet.html Dolores Beasley Headquarters, Washington (Phone: 202/358-1753) Jane Platt/Gay Hill Jet Propulsion Laboratory (Phone: 818-354-0880/0344) July 29, 2005 RELEASE: 05-209 Scientists Discover Tenth Planet A planet larger than Pluto has been discovered in the outlying regions of the solar system. The planet was discovered using the Samuel Oschin Telescope at Palomar Observatory near San Diego, Calif. The discovery was announced today by planetary scientist Dr. Mike Brown of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, Calif., whose research is partly funded by NASA. The planet is a typical member of the Kuiper belt, but its sheer size in relation to the nine known planets means that it can only be classified as a planet, Brown said. Currently about 97 times further from the sun than the Earth, the planet is the farthest-known object in the solar system, and the third brightest of the Kuiper belt objects. It will be visible with a telescope over the next six months and is currently almost directly overhead in the early-morning eastern sky, in the constellation Cetus, said Brown, who made the discovery with colleagues Chad Trujillo, of the Gemini Observatory in Mauna Kea, Hawaii, and David Rabinowitz, of Yale University, New Haven, Conn., on January 8. Brown, Trujillo and Rabinowitz first photographed the new planet with the 48-inch Samuel Oschin Telescope on October 31, 2003. However, the object was so far away that its motion was not detected until they reanalyzed the data in January of this year. In the last seven months, the scientists have been studying the planet to better estimate its size and its motions. It's definitely bigger than Pluto, said Brown, who is a professor of planetary astronomy. Scientists can infer the size of a solar system object by its brightness, just as one can infer the size of a faraway light bulb if one knows its wattage. The reflectance of the planet is not yet known. Scientists can not yet tell how much light from the sun is reflected away, but the amount of light the planet reflects puts a lower limit on its size. Even if it reflected 100 percent of the light reaching it, it would still be as big as Pluto, says Brown. I'd say it's probably one and a half times the size of Pluto, but we're not sure yet of the final size. We are 100 percent confident that this is the first object bigger than Pluto ever found in the outer solar system, Brown added. The size of the planet is limited by observations using NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope, which has already proved its mettle in studying the heat of dim, faint, faraway objects such as the Kuiper-belt bodies. Because Spitzer is unable to detect the new planet, the overall diameter must be less than 2,000 miles, said Brown. A name for the new planet has been proposed by the discoverers to the International Astronomical Union, and they are awaiting the decision of this body before announcing the name. For more information on the discovery and to view images, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/newplanet-072905-images.html For information about NASA and agency programs on the Web, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/home/index.html - end - __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Project Aims at Finding Meteorites in Canada
http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/Z01_00atresure0729.lasso Treasure from space Project aims at finding Prairie meteorites in our midst BY NEAL TALBOT Daily Herald-Tribune (Canada) July 29, 2005 The Prairie Meteorite Search Project hasn't yet found any trace of the elusive Grande Prairie Fireball, but may have found another meteor near Manning. Prairie Meteorite Search regional co-ordinator Tom Weedmark says a potential meteorite was brought into a workshop in Manning last week, but he has been unable to conclude his findings until Canadian meteor expert Alan Hildebrand has a chance to look at the expected space rock. A rock found in the Manning area looks very promising right now, as well as news of a potential meteorite crater, said Weedmark, while hosting a meteor workshop in the Grande Prairie Public Library Thursday. Now it's just a matter of getting it confirmed. The Prairie Meteorite Search Project is holding workshops across northern Alberta this summer in hopes people will bring them potential meteorites. The project - run by the University of Calgary, University of Regina and University of Western Ontario - began searching in 2000 and has located eight new meteorites thus far, with the latest discovered in eastern Manitoba earlier this month. Weedmark says he's averaged about 10 people who bring rocks per stop on his two-month cross-prairie tour, varying from a single rock to a near pickup load. The Prairie Meteorite Search Project aims its efforts mainly at farmers, who discover most of the meteorites because they work so closely with the ground and are prone to collecting unusual rocks. Weedmark points out the last recorded Alberta meteorite was found in a Fort MacLeod farmer's rock collection last year. The farmer had kept the heavy, black and rust -coloured stone since 1992 before it was identified by project officials. Meteorites can be identified by a blackened outer crust burnt by the earth's atmosphere, and a heavy metal content that will allow magnets to stick to them. Weedmark says the famous Grande Prairie Fireball, which ripped through the night sky and was seen by hundreds of residents in 1984, is still the key piece of local space history the project is after, but nothing has turned up yet. We'd love to come away with a fragment of that meteor, and I've still got one more stop in the area to find it, he said. Hopefully it will turn up tomorrow. The Grande Prairie Fireball was last seen 30 kilometres southeast of Grande Prairie and is believed to have fallen somewhere between the Grovedale area and the British Columbia border. The Edmonton Space Sciences Centre, University of Alberta, Royal Alberta Museum and Grande Prairie Regional College have searched for the meteor's final resting place, but no fragments have ever been found. Sixty-four meteors have been recovered in Canada, with Alberta's 15 leading the way, closely followed by Saskatchewan at 14 and Ontario at 13. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: July 25-29, 2005
MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES July 25-29, 2005 o Refilled Crater (Released 25 July 2005) http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20050725A.html o Crater Ejecta (Released 26 July 2005) http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20050726a.html o Eroded Ejecta (Released 27 July 2005) http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20050727a.html o Radial Erosion (Released 28 July 2005) http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20050729a.html o Craters Filling Fraters (Released 29 July 2005) http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20050729a.html All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.la.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in collaboration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Astronomers Find Another Planet in Solar System (2003 UB313)
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/29/science/29cnd-planet.html Astronomers Find Another Planet in Solar System By KENNETH CHANG and DENNIS OVERBYE New York Times July 29, 2005 Add a 10th planet to the solar system - or possibly subtract one. Astronomers announced today that they had found a lump of rock and ice that is larger than Pluto and the farthest known object in the solar system. The discovery will likely rekindle debate over the definition of planet and whether Pluto should still be regarded as one. The new object - as yet unnamed, but temporarily designated as 2003 UB313 - is currently 9 billion miles away from the Sun, or 97 times as far away as the Earth and about three times Pluto's current distance from the Sun. But its 560-year elliptical orbit also brings it as close as 3.3 billion miles. Pluto's orbit ranges between 2.7 billion and 4.6 billion miles. The astronomers do not have an exact size for the new planet, but its brightness and distance tell them that it is at least as large as Pluto. It is guaranteed bigger than Pluto, said Michael E. Brown, a professor of planetary astronomy at Caltech and a member of the team that made the discovery. Even if it were 100 percent reflective, it would be larger than Pluto. It can't be more than 100 percent reflective. The discovery was made Jan. 8 using a 48-inch telescope at Palomar Observatory in California. Dr. Brown and the other members of the team - Chadwick A. Trujillo of the Gemini Observatory in Hawaii and David L. Rabinowitz of Yale University - then found that they had, unknowingly, taken images of the planet taken as far back as 2003. Last year, the same team announced the discovery of a distant body they named Sedna, which, until the latest discovery, had held the title of farthest known object in the solar system. Dr. Brown said they had a name they had in mind for the planet, but did not want to disclose it publicly until it had been formally proposed to the International Astronomical Union. We have a name we really like, and we want it to stick, he said. Informally, the astronomers have been calling it Xena after the television series about a Greek warrior princess, which was popular when the astronomers began their systematic sweep of the sky in 2000. Because we always wanted to name something Xena, Dr. Brown said. The astronomers were not able to see 2003 UB313 using NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope, which looks at longer-wavelength infrared light. That means the planet is less than 1,800 miles in diameter. What is most surprising is that the orbit of the planet is sharply skewed to most of the rest of the solar system. The orbits of the most of the planets lie close to the same plane as the Earth's, known as the ecliptic plane. The orbit of 2003 UB313 is tilted by 44 degrees. That blows my mind, said Harold Levison of the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colo., who was not involved in the discovery. Getting something up that high is very hard. The object is also the third brightest in the Kuiper Belt, a ring of icy bodies that circles beyond the orbit of Neptune. The new planet could have been easily discovered much sooner if anyone had looked at that part of the sky. It's because no one looks that far off the ecliptic, Dr. Brown said. No one expects to have an inclination that high. Another group of astronomers led by Jose-Luis Ortiz at the Sierra Nevada Observatory in Spain announced that they had found a large Kuiper Belt object, designated 2003 EL61, that they thought could be Pluto-size or larger. Dr. Brown's group had been observing the same body but had not announced it, and their observations had already pinpointed a moon circling 2003 EL61, which constrained the size of the body to about 70 percent the diameter of Pluto. On his Web site, Dr. Brown wrote that the Spanish group deserved credit, saying they had gambled that no one else would find the planet. We were wrong! he said. Dr. Brown had still hoped to hold back announcements of 2003 UB313 and another large Kuiper Belt object, 2005 FY9, until October, but his hand was tipped by Brian Marsden, director of the Minor Planet Center, who said that he was worried about hanky panky. Dr. Marsden said that it was possible by looking on the Internet at the logs of one of the telescopes Dr. Brown's team had been using to find out where they had been pointed. He had evidence, he said, that someone had done that and computed crude orbits of the two unannounced planetoids, presumably in preparation for their own observations. I was shocked to find this kind of information was available on the Web, Dr. Marsden said. He urged Dr. Brown to announce his findings. I was suspicious and I warned him, he said. We try to give credit where credit is due. Brown's team deserves a lot of credit for carrying out this program. Astronomers suddenly have three large bodies at its outskirts, and with one of them larger than Pluto, the debate over what is a planet will
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - July 29, 2005
Martin, Bernd and List, Here is another portion of the molten sky. I got it from Stefan Ralew in Berlin. http://www.johnkashuba.com/NWA_2902_L_chondrite_impact_melt.html John Kashuba Ontario, California - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - July 29,2005 Hi Bernd, my favourite metaphoric meteorite for the night sky is El Kachla, myriads of metal flakes from the tiniest speck to large 1 mag blobs in a bottomless black matrix. Not randomly squirted, but in dynamic streams around silent islands Quiet Doug, it's not an AD, I'm sold out. Perhaps me ask Uncle Twelker for some more. Here a not even find pic, which doesn't show the brilliance of this melt at FectayBidaut (which should have still quite an amount): http://www.meteorite.fr/en/images/forsale/ElKachla.jpg Buckleboo! Martin - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - July 29, 2005 http://www.spacerocksinc.com/July29.html .. as if you were looking at our Milky Way under a perfectly dark, absolutely pollution-free sky. Thanks for sharing it! BTW, which W e l l m a n is it? Wellman (a, b, c, d, e)? Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites Record Surface Temperatures on Mars
http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/July05/Mars_paleotemp.html Martian Meteorites Record Surface Temperatures on Mars Planetary Science Research Discoveries July 29, 2005 --- Gases trapped in Martian meteorites indicate that Mars has been a cold desert for a long, long time. Written by G. Jeffrey Taylor Hawai'i Institute of Geophysics and Planetology Using published data for argon (Ar) released when Martian meteorites are heated, David Shuster (California Institute of Technology, now at Berkeley Geochronology Center, Berkeley, CA) and Benjamin Weiss (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) show that the nakhlite group of Martian meteorites ../PSRDglossary.html#snc and unique Martian meteorite ALH 84001 were probably not heated above about 0 oC ../PSRDglossary.html#celsius for most of their histories. This indicates that the surface of Mars has been cold for almost four billion years. If a warm, wet environment existed on Mars (inferred from previous studies of surface features and geochemical parameters), it occurred before four billion years ago. Reference: * Shuster, David L. and Benjamin P. Weiss (2005) Martian surface paleotemperatures from thermochronology of Meteorites. Science, vol. 309, p. 594-597. Soaking Wet, Bone Dry Mars Climate change on Earth is often in the news. Climate specialists worry about swings in global temperatures of several degrees Celsius. This does not sound like much, but it is enough to cause ice ages sometimes and widespread shallow seas at other times. But those changes are nothing compared to what the planet Mars seems to have experienced. Mars is decorated with huge channels eroded when vast quantities of water flowed through them. Oceans may have existed in the northern plains. Valley networks decorate the planet's surface. Yet now it is a dry, cold place. The daily average temperature at the equator is an ultra-nippy 60 oC below zero. Its monotonous dry climate has been enlivened occasionally by water seeping from the sides of impact craters, and changes in the planet's tilt may have moved glaciers from the current poles to more equatorial regions, but basically it has been colder and drier than anyplace on Earth. Yet at some time in the past, probably billions of years ago, Mars was a much warmer and wetter place. Mars flaunts strong evidence for vigorous water activity in the past (see images below from left to right), such as immense, water-carved outflow channels, valley networks, possibly an extensive northern ocean, and presence of layered deposits whose origin involved evaporation of salty water. Martian water features On the other hand (see images below), it appears today to be extremely dry, a vast desert shaped mostly by wind, except in a limited number of locales where water has recently formed gullies on the walls of impact craters. [Images] [Image] Columbia Hills, Gusev crater-wall gullies David Shuster and Benjamin Weiss wanted to determine past temperatures during this impressively long Martian cold, dry spell. Experts in determining the ages of rocks using potassium-argon dating and its advanced cousin, 40Ar/39Ar dating, they reckoned that Martian meteorites contained a record of surface temperatures. This is possible because Ar leaks out of rocks unless they are kept cool enough. They chose to study the nakhlite group of Martian meteorites because they do not have the same level of shock damage by meteoroid impact as do other types of Martian meteorites, thereby minimizing one form of heating besides surface temperature. They also studied data from Allan Hills (ALH) 84001 because it is by far the oldest in our collection of Martian meteorites. (For evidence that Martian meteorites actually do come from Mars, go to the curatorial office http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/antmet/marsmets/indepth.htm at the Johnson Space Center.) Nakhlites have already proven to be useful in assessing the timing of relatively recent aqueous events on Mars (see PSRD article: Liquid Water on Mars: The Story from Meteorites http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/May00/wetMars.html). The nakhlites contain mineral grains formed by the reaction of water with original minerals and deposition of others as the solutions dried up (see images below). Tim Swindle and his colleagues at the University of Arizona determined from potassium-argon dating that these water-based alteration events were of short duration and took place intermittently during the past 600 million years or so. Shuster and Weiss hoped to look at a broader time scale and to set limits on the temperature during the past 4 billion years. olivine and sulfates in MIL03346 The nakhlite group of Martian meteorites show that small amounts of water have flowed on Mars since the nakhlites formed in lava flows 1.3 billion years ago. On the left is a transmitted light photograph of red staining in an olivine crystal in the MIL 03346
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - July 29, 2005
In a message dated 7/29/2005 6:56:53 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here is another portion of the molten sky. I got it from Stefan Ralew in Berlin. http://www.johnkashuba.com/NWA_2902_L_chondrite_impact_melt.html John Kashuba Ontario, California - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - July 29,2005 Hi Bernd, my favourite metaphoric meteorite for the night sky is El Kachla, myriads of metal flakes from the tiniest speck to large 1 mag blobs in a bottomless black matrix. -- --- And here is my favorite view of the sky, complete with shooting star! _http://www.impactika.com/vyatka.jpg_ (http://www.impactika.com/vyatka.jpg) (not an AD either, sold a long time ago) Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] TWO new Kuiper belt objects today?
Were there two KBOs announced today, or just one under two numbers? There seems to be confusion on the point. There's this one, 2003 UB313: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8760309/ And this one, 2003 EL61: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8756128/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] TWO new Kuiper belt objects today?
Answering my own question: http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/planetlila/index.html http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/2003EL61/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] TWO new Kuiper belt objects today?
Hi, Everybody Actually, it's not two new bodies today, it's THREE! Yes, there was confusion, proving that even the best science journalists in the world (New Scientist, Space.com, etc.) get things as muddled as the cub reporter from Podunk, Iowa. The announcements were hasty and pre-emptory and rushed. Getcher programs! Can't tell the planets without a program! Here they are: 1. 2003 UB313 @ 97 AU Twice as big as Pluto (diameter) Orbit inclined at 44 degrees Period 560 years Very bright object, Magnitude 18.9 Discoverer: Brown 2. 2005 EL61 @ 51 AU 0.70 as big as Pluto (diameter) Orbit inclined at ?? degrees Period ??? years Also bright object, seen in 12 scope by amateurs within hours of announcement Has a moon 1% of primary mass in 49-day orbit Discoverer: Ortiz; Moon discovered by Brown who had also discovered the primary but did not announce first 3. 2005 FY9 @ ?? AU less than the diameter of Pluto but not by too much Orbit inclined at ?? degrees Period ??? years Also pretty bright for a KBO Discoverer: Brown Throw in Sedna and Qoaoar or whatever the dam thing is called and I make it we're up to 14 planets. (You call'em planets and I'll learn their names!) The announcements were rushed because somebody was accessing Brown's telescope logs (they're on the net available) and had noted where he had re-pointed (for verification) and used those positions to rought out orbits and go after the objects themselves, since Brown was going to sit on the discoveries for a long time before announcing. Hey! EVERYBODY wants to find a planet, and you get no credit for being the second to announce; only one winner per race. More will become clear soon, I hope. 2005 UB313 is so bright that it should have been discovered long ago. (Neptune [1848] is Mag 8, Pluto [1930]is 13.8, 2005UB313 is 18.9.) Why didn't anybody find it? It's a selection effect. That is, NOBODY LOOKING in the right place (like I'm always harping about in the case of intra-Earth orbit asteroids, etc. Don't look and you won't find. I'm sure Planet 15 will have a high inclination, too. And 16, and 17, and... Sterling K. Webb -- Darren Garrison wrote: Were there two KBOs announced today, or just one under two numbers? There seems to be confusion on the point --- Ron Baalke wrote ___ Some new info direct from Mike Brown: o 2003 UB313 is larger then Pluto in diameter, but no larger than twice Pluto's diameter o Based on Spitzer measurements 2005 FY9 is confirmed to be smaller than Pluto o Attempts to measure 2003 UB313 with Spitzer did not yield any useful data o The satellite around 2003 EL61 has a 49-day orbital period o The surface of 2003 UB313 is similar to Pluto, and it has methane o They had intended to announce their discoveries in a couple of months, but their website was hacked into, which prompted them to announce them today. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW POST: TWO new Kuiper belt objects today?
Hi, Everybody In addition: The magnitude of 2006 EL61 is apparently 17.5, making it brighter than the bigger 2003 UB313 (which is almost twice as far away). Since the limiting magnitude of a 12 scope is 14.8, I doubt the amateurs with a 12 scope saw it, unless they used a imaging method to capture it. It couldn't have been a visual observation. 2005 EL61 is an ELONGATED object with a (presumably) equatorial diameter 40% greater than it's (presumably) polar one. Welcome to the NEW solar system. Updated table: 1. 2003 UB313 @ 97 AU Twice as big as Pluto (diameter) Orbit inclined at 44 degrees Period 560 years Very bright object, Magnitude 18.9 Discoverer: Brown 2. 2005 EL61 @ 51 AU 0.70 as big as Pluto (diameter) but ELONGATED 0.32 the mass of Pluto Orbit inclined at ?? degrees Period ??? years Also bright object, Mag 17.5 seen in 12 scope by amateurs within hours of announcement Has a moon 1% of primary mass in 49-day orbit Discoverer: Ortiz; Moon discovered by Brown who had also discovered the primary but did not announce first 3. 2005 FY9 @ ?? AU less than the diameter of Pluto but not by too much Orbit inclined at ?? degrees Period ??? years Also pretty bright for a KBO Discoverer: Brown Sterling K. Webb -- Darren Garrison wrote: Were there two KBOs announced today, or just one under two numbers? There seems to be confusion on the point --- Ron Baalke wrote ___ Some new info direct from Mike Brown: o 2003 UB313 is larger then Pluto in diameter, but no larger than twice Pluto's diameter o Based on Spitzer measurements 2005 FY9 is confirmed to be smaller than Pluto o Attempts to measure 2003 UB313 with Spitzer did not yield any useful data o The satellite around 2003 EL61 has a 49-day orbital period o The surface of 2003 UB313 is similar to Pluto, and it has methane o They had intended to announce their discoveries in a couple of months, but their website was hacked into, which prompted them to announce them today. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
