[meteorite-list] Viva Allende !
To all Mexicans and amigas y amigos ! ¡¡¡ Mexicanos Vivan los heroes que nos dieron Patria ! Viva ! Viva Hidalgo ! Viva ! Viva Morelos ! Viva ! Viva Allende ! Viva ! Viva Aldama ! Viva! (Viva Doña Josefa Ortiz de Dominguez!!! Viva! ) Viva la Libertad ! Viva ! Viva la Independencia ! Viva ! Viva Mexico !! 10 X !! Campanas! Happy Independence Day ! Morelos (First Mexican Communications Satellite!) Allende (Oldest Meteorite on Earth!) Hidalgo (Longest Orbit of all Asteroids in Belt Ast. #944) - and and second oldest witnessed fall in the nation from his then tiny pueblo 1844) Aldama (Two meteorites!) Viva MEXICO Cabrones ! Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] re: All Hail Eris and Dysnomia (2003 UB313)
- Original Message - From: Marco Langbroek [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] re: All Hail Eris and Dysnomia (2003 UB313) Sigh. I am getting tired of this. You're not the only one, I'm sure. ...there are well-established standar[d]s, as issued by the MPC, mandated by the IAU to be the official clearing house for such. Ortiz et al complied to these rules by the letter. They did nothing wrong. They did nothing wrong. Your argument is based on an assumption that Ortiz is telling the truth in one or all of his slightly varying accounts (the other two of which are no longer accessible). If Ortiz is telling the complete truth, then you are quite correct. However, bluntly put, the basic question is whether Ortiz IS telling the truth. There is no objective evidence available to anyone that can determine that. There has never been and there never will be. people are innocent until[l] proven otherwise. Ortiz is not accused of a crime. The standard that you refer to, of civil legality, does not apply here. The standard in question is that of personal behavior, perhaps no more than the balance between ambition and the means of its achievement. We judge others all the time, by their behavior, by the implications of their actions, all circumstantial. Are they telling the truth? is one of the most fundamental judgments we are required to make of others, almost every day, even in civilized society. I surmise that it is not unreasonable to characterize you and Ortiz as colleagues or co-workers to some unknown degree; perhaps you are friends, I don't know. Familiarity of some degree may be the best guide to judgment, or it may not. One is naturally inclined to think well of friends and associates. Sometimes, one is ultimately disappointed when one does so. The rest of us have to weigh things as best we can from what we can discover or observe. If I felt myself to be falsely accused (even by implication), I would not be silent nor cease work. Perhaps Ortiz would. Perhaps he has to. J. C. del Toro Iniesta has been accused of throwing him [Ortiz] under the bus and ruining his career. As to what Ortiz actually did, I do not know the truth of things. And neither do you. No one but Ortiz knows that (and possibly Santos-Sanz). The first access of Brown's logs occurs many hours before the first notice of OSNT11 is sent to the MPC, time enough to use Brown's discovery to make your discovery, and whether you put quotes around the word discovery depends entirely on what you believe the sequence of events to have been. All accusations that they inappropriately used these records are and remain unsubstantiated, non-proven... Equally, their assertion that they did not use those records is and remains unsubstantiated, non-proven. It's not capable of proof or disproof. Their curiosity to identify the object (your explanation of their access) has raised a cloud that largely obscures the discovery. I quote: The MPC asks observers to not identify their objects which they report: http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/info/Astrometry.html#id 18. Do I need to identify objects? Strange as it may sound, no. This, from Reiner Stoss on the MPML. I'm sure that Ortiz heartily wishes he had heeded that procedural admonition if it was only curiosity that led him to access those logs. Marco, you must allow for the possibility that others may, for some inexplicable reason, arrive at conclusions different than yours from the same human events. The issue is not a technical one of procedures and precedence; it is a more fundamental one of judging the honesty of a person. You insist on treating that question as already decided (by you) and not the issue. To do so simply overlooks the fact that, for most people, that is the question that is unanswered. Sterling K. Webb -- In case anyone cares for more and better rant about it: Brian Marsden's account of events as seen from the MPC and a discussion of MPC view of the question of : http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mpml/message/15696 Reiner Stoss' account of his work in the recovery: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mpml/message/15326 For some real intemperance and anger, read: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mpml/messages/16012?threaded=1m=evar=1tidx=1 expanding all messages. It's lamentable. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Viva Allende !
To all Mexicans on this List: Yes, Viva Mexico on today's Independence Day! Viva Allende! and Viva Zapata! ( Marlon Brando, 1952 movie) - maybe one day they might find a nice 235kg Zapata iron meteorite...:) But: and I quote Doug: Viva MEXICO Cabrones ! Cabrones José Campos Portugal - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 7:07 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Viva Allende ! To all Mexicans and amigas y amigos ! ¡¡¡ Mexicanos Vivan los heroes que nos dieron Patria ! Viva ! Viva Hidalgo ! Viva ! Viva Morelos ! Viva ! Viva Allende ! Viva ! Viva Aldama ! Viva! (Viva Doña Josefa Ortiz de Dominguez!!! Viva! ) Viva la Libertad ! Viva ! Viva la Independencia ! Viva ! Viva Mexico !! 10 X !! Campanas! Happy Independence Day ! Morelos (First Mexican Communications Satellite!) Allende (Oldest Meteorite on Earth!) Hidalgo (Longest Orbit of all Asteroids in Belt Ast. #944) - and and second oldest witnessed fall in the nation from his then tiny pueblo 1844) Aldama (Two meteorites!) Viva MEXICO Cabrones ! Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] re: All Hail Eris and Dysnomia (2003 UB313)
I wrote: people are innocent until[l] proven otherwise. and Sterling answered: Ortiz is not accused of a crime. The standard that you refer to, of civil legality, does not apply here. The standard in question is that of personal behavior, perhaps no more than the balance between ambition and the means of its achievement. No, the standard is that of a civilized society where defamation with accusations you can not prove is frowned upon. Civil legality is just a formal extension of that, it is grounded in the basic standard of our society. This as opposed to a standard of mob lynching, where shouting (s)he is a witch! is enough to burn someone. When initial word of the controversy broke, it was alleged that Ortiz et al. had really hacked into Brown's computer network. That then turned out to be not the case at all but the tone was set. From the initial messages, I thought Ortiz et al. indeed had been behaving unethically (see my message on the FMO mailing list here: http://www.freelists.org/archives/fmo/09-2005/msg00089.html ) When however it became clear the hacking accusation was not what in fact happened and I started to shift facts from dark speculations, I revised my position on this case. I realized another reading of the events was as likely as the dark reading being agressively pushed by some. Having experienced quite a few nasty political games in science, I moreover began to smell some possible darker sentiments behind that agressive pushing, in which Ortiz is a victim rather than a culprit. If you look carefully to the actions of the other side in the debate, there are quite some odd things there too. For example, and in addition to the unfounded but very damning accussation of hacking, to the outside world they tried to picture Ortiz as an unknown non-professional, an amateur popping out of the blue. The man is a professional however, attached to a formal academic institution, and with a record of peer reviewed scientific papers on TNO's, running a scientific research program on TNO's. This made me even more cautious towards the whole issue. I surmise that it is not unreasonable to characterize you and Ortiz as colleagues or co-workers to some unknown degree; perhaps you are friends, I don't know. Familiarity of some degree may be the best guide to judgment, or it may not. One is naturally inclined to think well of friends and associates. Sometimes, one is ultimately disappointed when one does so. I have no relation to Ortiz or his co-workers whatsoever. Never met him, never talked to him. I do know he did good work in the past. I have done work myself, as an amateur, on asteroids, even formally discovered a Near Earth Asteroid, and pried unknown main belt asteroids from NEAT archive data and reported these to the MPC. From this work, I know about procedures in the field of minor body research, how to submit data, and what is possible and not with obtaining orbit data and object positions. On those points I can therefore make my own informed judgements instead of having to paraphrase. I recognize where things are not as they are portrayed to be, with regard to these aspects. As to what Ortiz actually did, I do not know the truth of things. And neither do you. Yet you act as if you do know. You sentence him to be guilty. That is the mob lynching mentality. Fetch a rope, we'll hang him! Finally, with regard to the repeated statement that Ortiz pulled his website text on 2003EL61 etc.: In a case like this, where every word written on it is turned twice, every letter of it scrutinized and where possible taken out of context, this was only wise of him to do. This whole case has a strong element of a witchhunt to it. And I am affraid it has a dark political undercurrent, reason why I am very cautious with judging someone guilty. There is a lot more I would like to say on this, but I am tired of the discussion and fear if I do so it would raise sentiments that would further blur the discussion. - Marco - Dr Marco Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] private website http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek DMS website http://www.dmsweb.org - __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Viva Allende !
On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 10:24:25 +0100, you wrote: To all Mexicans on this List: Yes, Viva Mexico on today's Independence Day! Viva Allende! and Viva Zapata! ( Marlon Brando, 1952 movie) - maybe one day they might find a nice 235kg Zapata iron meteorite...:) And don't forget the most important one! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0006M32GG __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - September 16, 2006
http://www.spacerocksinc.com/September_16.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Oman crater ?
Ha Whether it is meteoritic crater? GoogleEarth - 19o55'54 N 56o57'27 E Best regards Jan Woreczko http://www.woreczko.pl/meteorites/news/Oman_crater.jpg __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Ebay auctions ending soon
Hello List, there are a few auctions of me ending soon. If you are interested take a look, for example i have: *Juanita de Angeles*, Chondrite H5, Mexico http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=320027716740rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AITrd=1 *Dhofar 935*, Chondrite H5, slice 33.7g. many shockveins http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=320027715831rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AITrd=1 *Capot Rey, Niger*, slice 15.9g. http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=320027005787rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AITrd=1 *Allende*, small slice with beautiful CAI's http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=320027011848rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AITrd=1 *Tafassasset*, very unusual Achondrite or CR, 12.8g. slice http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=320027036226rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AITrd=1 *Brahin*, unusual big slice, 56.9g. http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=320027041147rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AITrd=1 *Oriented NWA*, Chondrite, very cool shape! http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=320027043085rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AITrd=1 *NWA 3189*, LL3.2 - 3.4, 7.9g. slice http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=320027043567rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AITrd=1 *Santa Vitoria do Palmar,* brand-new, recent find from Brazil.Highly unequilibrated L3 Chondrite. Tkw is 39Kg's but much much less material will reach the market. http://cgi.ebay.de/Meteorite-Santa-Vitoria-do-Palmar-Chondrite-L3-BRAZIL_W0QQitemZ320028017534QQihZ011QQcategoryZ3239QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Many thanks for your interest! Carsten. -- gipo-meteorites Carsten Giessler email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gi-po.de __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Oman crater ?
Ha Thanks ;-) MWozniak - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Oman crater ? This is the so-called Habhab-structure E of Hayma. It has been suggested that this is a meteorite crater some years ago. We have visited the place during meteorite search. Field evidence, together with seismic profiles by the oil industry, showed that it is the surface expression of a salt some. Unfortunately. Looks really like a crater at first glance... Beda Hofmann Abstract presented at the Meteoritical Society Meeting in Münster, Germany, 2003: THE HABHAB STRUCTURE OF CENTRAL OMAN: NOT AN IMPACT CRATER. B. A. Hofmann1, E. Gnos, A. Al- Kathiri2,3, S.A. Al-Busaidi4, A. Al-Rajhi4, M. Al-Batashi4, J. Terken5 1Naturhistorisches Museum der Burgergemeinde Bern, Bernastrasse 15, CH-3005 Bern, Switzerland, 2Institut für Geologie, Universität Bern, Baltzerstrasse 1, CH-3012 Bern, Switzerland, 3Directorate General of Commerce and Industry, Ministry of Commerce and Industry, Salalah, Sultanate of Oman, 4Directorate General of Minerals, Ministry of Commerce and Industry, Muscat, Sultanate of Oman, 5Nederlandse Aardolie Maatschappij (NAM), Assen, The Netherlands. Introduction: The 6 km near-circular Habhab structure located in Central Oman (19° 55'N, 57° 0'E, 75 km E of Hayma) has been suggested to represent a possible impact structure based on satellite imagery [1-4], an interpretation recently challenged [5]. The structure is located on a vast near-flat desert plain made up of shallow marine Fars group limestones of middle Miocene age. It consists of two concentric, near-circular shallow depressions. We investigated the structure on the ground in January 2002, December 2002 and January 2003. The discovery of several ordinary chondrites in and near the structure motivated us to reinvestigate it's origin. Based on the field observations and seismic profiles we conclude that the Habhab circular structure is not an impact crater. This conclusion is based on the following observations: - Undisturbed, bedded Miocene limestone was observed at the rim of the structure as well as in its center. No shock effects (brecciation, intense fracturing) were observed in the beds or in the abundant fossils contained therein. - The topographic relief between the different features observed in satellite imagery is only a few meters, too little for a crater of young age. The flanks of the structure are not uplifted. - Absence of any ejecta from stratigraphically deeper strata. - Seismic profiles indicate the presence of a salt plug exactly below the Habhab circular structure. We consider that the Habhab circular structure most likely is caused by salt dissolution/salt tectonics related to a near-surface salt plug. References: [1] Sharpton et al. (1988) Meteoritics, 23, 301. [2] McHone, J.F. and Dietz, R.S. (1988) Meteoritics 23, 288-289. [3] Dietz, R.S. et al. (1975) Meteoritics 10, 393, 509. [4] McHone J.F. and Greeley, R. (1997) LPSC XXVIII, 915-916. [5] Levell B. et al. (2002) GeoArabia 7, 721-730. Zitat von Meteorite-list [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ha Whether it is meteoritic crater? GoogleEarth - 19o55'54 N 56o57'27 E Best regards Jan Woreczko http://www.woreczko.pl/meteorites/news/Oman_crater.jpg __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- This mail was sent through IMP at http://mail.unibe.ch __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Viva Allende ! (mostly OT)
Jose, good morning... a little bit on the meaning behind the names of Allende, Aldama, Hildago, Morelos, and others... Yes, Viva Mexico on today's Independence Day! Thanks for the kind wishes Jose, we hope Mexico will live Forever Taday! I hope you can join us for it some time. Today is the day many people here would rather stay in bed:-(, it's really a very big celebration from last night and the Tequila is the naughty national drink - Independence moment was actually midnight this morning. It's already time to wish the Germans a wonderful Oktoberfest as things get rolling today... Viva Zapata! ( Marlon Brando, 1952 movie) Zapata does still live! Not like in the made up Hollywood movie, but really in the hearts of many fighting for equality. He is a Mexican national and folk hero from our successful revolution of 1910 so the day we might hear more shouting Viva Zapata is on November 20 - the day of the revolution (Mexican Civil War) - and a contemporary of folk hero General Francisco Pancho Villa, head of the last foreign army to invade the USA. So, by all means, shout it out boldly! Something like Viva Zapata! Viva Villa! would be great in a protest to increase disgusting wages and mistreatment of workers. But don't loose sight of why we have this tradition for Viva! for the great founding fathers of Mexico: The words I typed last night are close to the words yelled from all plazas throughout Mexico to commemorate the 1810 War of Independence. The President shouts it from Mexico City, Federal Capital, it was first done at midnight in 1810 with Hidalgo who started the rebellion, shouting Mexicanos, Viva Mexico! on this day. To show the nations gratitude to Hidalgo, Allende, Aldama, Jimenez and Morelos, we have this traditional Independence proclamation. It didn't go well for Hidalgo, Allende, Aldama and Jimenez, nor Morelos. Regrouping after three months of unsuccessful campaigns, a disgusting fleabag of a traitor captured these men in collusion with the Iberians. The first four were summarily executed in 1811 by the Spanish after being captured in the harsh and huge desert of the Coahuila iron, decapitated and hoisted their heads in cages tied to each corner of a large grain warehouse in the capital of the state where Hidalgo first shouted Viva Mexico!. Morelos took over, met also the same bloody end by the Spanish Firing Squad in 1815, but the fight was finally won until 1821. Ten years after their murderous executions by the Iberians, Mexicans could finally cut the ten year old heads down from public display. That's why the Grito de Dolores (Independence Yell) is so important. Your word question: OK, a Portuguese speaking guy I guess you are thinking, mmm what he says doesn't compute? ... Here in the New World, specifically, Mexico, one very common colloquial definition of that word is people who do things in an excellent way and are incredibly resilient. It has become a defiant and proud add on for many in informal mixed company in many ways, but not really separated as you did, and if the ladies blush, it is more frequently with pride. After all the progress we've made since having the first successful war of independence against the Spanish Colonial authority starting midnight this morning in 1810 which started the whole Viva, Mexico! sense of pride, this word is added frequently among Mexicans rightfully taking pride in that resilience. It's still not over. For example, as I typed last night, the opposition political party prevented the President from pronouncing those important cultural words in Mexico City, as is a very important custom for this country. So President Fox decided to do it last night from outside the capital where Hidalgo originally did it in 1810, the locality of the second witnessed fall in Mexico, 1844. The custom is for Mexicans all over the country and world to share this defiance for the grotesque deaths of the heroes of the War of Independence by shouting Viva! The add-on, while you may not be able to easily translate it from a Iberian perspective, it is sure to bring nostalgic memories of home to anyone from Mexico reading it... Hope that helps. Como Mexico no hay dos, es lindo y querido Best wishes, Doug PS this was just posted on a Mexican discussion group and also might give you a cosmopolitan view on the word question: http://es.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060906031017AANkS2n Here is a European explanation for you I can't understand but it looks nice: http://www.aie-globus.de/landundleute/feste/feste.htm And 1 of 100,000 more sites covering this Mexicanism: http://www.predicado.com/articulo.php?id=135714 - Original Message - From: Jose Campos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 4:24 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Viva Allende ! To all Mexicans on this List: Yes, Viva Mexico on today's Independence
Re: [meteorite-list] re: All Hail Eris and Dysnomia (2003 UB313)
Hi, Marco said: with regard to the repeated statement that Ortiz pulled his website text on 2003EL61 etc.: In a case like this... this was only wise of him to do. This is where this kind of dispute becomes truly fascinating. On this side of the Atlantic, for one to withdraw one's own defence is very, very close to being an admission of guilt. I have no doubt that if you commissioned a pollster to ask Americans at random a suitably phrased quiz designed to probe for this atitude, the result would be that 70% or 80% would feel this way. Marco, I assure you, I am not projecting a mere personal reaction but a common one; I know the culture I live in. It is so alien a response that it would not even occur to most of the people I've known, if they were wrongfully accused. Someone might get despondent after a long time of defending themselves and just quit, but not in just a few days... months, perhaps. It sheds light on the gossip (and it is gossip only) that in their one phone conversation, Ortiz suggested to Brown that they simply share the discovery credit and that Brown refused, seeing it as an admission of guilt. Not astronomy, but cultural anthropology might be the key to understanding what's going on here. When I said: As to what Ortiz actually did, I do not know the truth of things. And neither do you. You responded: Yet you act as if you do know. You sentence him to be guilty. This is, as they say, an extreme rendering of the text! How do I sentence him by saying I don't know the truth? This is not logical of you. I said a cloud hangs over the discovery story; that is a purely descriptive statement of a state of affairs that does exist. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Marco Langbroek [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] re: All Hail Eris and Dysnomia (2003 UB313) I wrote: people are innocent until[l] proven otherwise. and Sterling answered: Ortiz is not accused of a crime. The standard that you refer to, of civil legality, does not apply here. The standard in question is that of personal behavior, perhaps no more than the balance between ambition and the means of its achievement. No, the standard is that of a civilized society where defamation with accusations you can not prove is frowned upon. Civil legality is just a formal extension of that, it is grounded in the basic standard of our society. This as opposed to a standard of mob lynching, where shouting (s)he is a witch! is enough to burn someone. When initial word of the controversy broke, it was alleged that Ortiz et al. had really hacked into Brown's computer network. That then turned out to be not the case at all but the tone was set. From the initial messages, I thought Ortiz et al. indeed had been behaving unethically (see my message on the FMO mailing list here: http://www.freelists.org/archives/fmo/09-2005/msg00089.html ) When however it became clear the hacking accusation was not what in fact happened and I started to shift facts from dark speculations, I revised my position on this case. I realized another reading of the events was as likely as the dark reading being agressively pushed by some. Having experienced quite a few nasty political games in science, I moreover began to smell some possible darker sentiments behind that agressive pushing, in which Ortiz is a victim rather than a culprit. If you look carefully to the actions of the other side in the debate, there are quite some odd things there too. For example, and in addition to the unfounded but very damning accussation of hacking, to the outside world they tried to picture Ortiz as an unknown non-professional, an amateur popping out of the blue. The man is a professional however, attached to a formal academic institution, and with a record of peer reviewed scientific papers on TNO's, running a scientific research program on TNO's. This made me even more cautious towards the whole issue. I surmise that it is not unreasonable to characterize you and Ortiz as colleagues or co-workers to some unknown degree; perhaps you are friends, I don't know. Familiarity of some degree may be the best guide to judgment, or it may not. One is naturally inclined to think well of friends and associates. Sometimes, one is ultimately disappointed when one does so. I have no relation to Ortiz or his co-workers whatsoever. Never met him, never talked to him. I do know he did good work in the past. I have done work myself, as an amateur, on asteroids, even formally discovered a Near Earth Asteroid, and pried unknown main belt asteroids from NEAT archive data and reported these to the MPC. From this work, I know about procedures in the field of minor body research, how to
[meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in 2 days
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlaserprogramQQhtZ-1QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQrdZ0? got a few more pieces of nice seymchan pallasite and a superb etched mostly iron slice. TIA for looking __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] DON'T NEED METEORITES TO TRANSFER LIFE TO OTHER WORLDS
It's amazing what these journals will publish these days! Most of us would read this and think hmmm, don't se what's wrong with that but history teaches that we cannot accept an argument simply because it sounds plausible. Get a high altitude NASA jet up there and scoop the air with that aerogel (or similar) and I bet they don't find anything, especially not highly elvolved upper atmospheric bacteria. I love the concept of them evolving up there into super-space-faring-beasties. Just one question...what the smeg to they feed on while they're at 200,000 ft evolving from ground based bugs to astronauts? Micrometeorites? Rob McCafferty Electromagnetic space travel for bugs? 21 July 2006 NewScientist.com news service David L Chandler Life on planets such as Earth or Mars could have been seeded by electrically charged microbes from space, suggests a new study. Since the discovery of meteorites from Mars on Earth in the 1990s, people have speculated that living microbes could have traveled back and forth between the two planets, perhaps allowing one planet to seed the other with life. The problem with this idea is that such a trip could only happen after a huge asteroid collided with one of the planets, with an impact large enough to blast rocks off the planet's surface, and such strikes are extremely rare: just a handful are thought to have occurred since the solar system formed. However, a new study suggests there may be a much gentler and steadier way for microbial life to leave a planet and travel to other worlds - and even from one solar system to another, something even the biggest impacts could not do. The startling conclusion grew out of work by Tom Dehel, an electrical engineer at the US Federal Aviation Administration, who was investigating how electromagnetic fields in the Earth's atmosphere can affect GPS satellites and disrupt their use for aircraft navigation. He presented his findings at the biennial meeting of the international Committee on Space Research (COSPAR), in Beijing, China, this week. Dehel calculated the effect of electric fields at various levels in the atmosphere on a bacterium that was carrying an electric charge. He showed that such bacteria could easily be ejected from the Earth's gravitational field by the same kind of electromagnetic fields that generate auroras. And these fields occur every day, unlike the extraordinarily large surface impacts needed to eject interplanetary meteorites. Near-vacuum The measurements of field strength vary greatly at different levels of the atmosphere - the strongest ones are near the surface, generated by thunderstorms. There are large gaps where the fields have not been measured directly, but assuming the fields extend through the whole air column, there could be an ongoing, sustained process of lofting bacteria high into the atmosphere. Since the upward forces of the magnetic field would balance the force of gravity for tiny organisms, they could float in the upper atmosphere for years and reproduce there, giving them a chance to evolve capabilities to endure the hardships of that environment, including coping with strong UV and a near-vacuum. Such organisms would thus be well equipped to endure the rigours of a journey through space, Dehel told New Scientist. The idea that microbes could be electrically levitated into the upper atmosphere was first suggested in 1908 by chemist Svante Arrhenius, but until recently there had been no direct measurements of the strength of electric fields high in the atmosphere to show whether the mechanism would work to propel microbes away from the planet. Other researchers have already demonstrated that some bacterial spores can survive in conditions thought to exist in interplanetary space, and then be revived. So the possibility of interplanetary spread of life is plausible and deserves further investigation, Dehel believes. Charged microbes could also be propelled outwards from a planet at high speed by magnetospheric plasmoids - independent structures of plasma and magnetic fields that can be swept away from the Earth's magnetosphere. Hitching rides on these structures could accelerate microbes to speeds capable of taking them out of the solar system and on to the planets of other stars. And because of the potential for a steady outflow of the particles pushed by the electric fields, a single life-bearing world might seed an entire galaxy with life, claims Dehel. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] zag/ price per gram
Hi list.I need to know what the going price per gram is on zag.I bought a 210 gram slice of ZAG,measuring 160 mm x 95 mm in size.I paid $300 for it.It seems like a great deal.I paid a $1.43 a gram.Could someone tell around the going rate.I just would like to know. steve arnold,chicago Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com Illinois meteorites,since 1999! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
