[meteorite-list] Happy SAFCD!
To All of you: Happy SAFCDSikhote-Alin-Fall-Celebration-Day! Many thanks to Michael for his Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day during the whole month of February! Peter __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Happy SAFCD! + Belated Allende Birthday Wishes
Peter wrote: Happy...Sikhote-Alin-Fall-Celebration-Day! Many thanks to Michael for his Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day during the whole month of February! Peter In the hype over the fall date of the SA iron shower, we forgot another celebrity: A L L E N D E on February 8, 1969, 01:05 hrs. February 8 was also my younger grandson Elias's 4th birthday and there is a nice, little Allende in his collection. Thanks again to Michael Farmer who, four years ago, kindly donated this birthday star to him. Best Allende and Skhote Wishes to all of us, to Walter, Sabrina, and Little Rebekah! Bernd .. off to school! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Happy SAFCD!
Dear Listoids, I thought that the whole List would celebrate my birthday today, but it seems that Sikhote-Alin is more famous than I am... What a surprise!!! ;o)) -Just kidding. So I join Peter and wish Sikhote-Alin a Happy Fallday! Best wishes, Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/) - Original Message - From: Peter Marmet [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteoritenliste Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy SAFCD! To All of you: Happy SAFCDSikhote-Alin-Fall-Celebration-Day! Many thanks to Michael for his Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day during the whole month of February! Peter __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Happy SAFCD! + Belated Allende Birthday Wishes
And there is also Bensour that possibly fell on 2002 Feb. 11... She is not a celebrity as Allende or Sikhote-Alin, but a nice fall anyway. I would then add Bensour's wishes as well, and will not forget to join you, Bernd, to send my very best wishes of recovery to Walter and Rebekha. Frederic Lyon, France - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:43 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy SAFCD! + Belated Allende Birthday Wishes Peter wrote: Happy...Sikhote-Alin-Fall-Celebration-Day! Many thanks to Michael for his Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day during the whole month of February! Peter In the hype over the fall date of the SA iron shower, we forgot another celebrity: A L L E N D E on February 8, 1969, 01:05 hrs. February 8 was also my younger grandson Elias's 4th birthday and there is a nice, little Allende in his collection. Thanks again to Michael Farmer who, four years ago, kindly donated this birthday star to him. Best Allende and Skhote Wishes to all of us, to Walter, Sabrina, and Little Rebekah! Bernd .. off to school! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Anybody want to melt a lunar in the name ofscience?
EH? Is it me or - Surley all that is happening here is the microwaves are being concentrated into the iron powder, thus heating up the dust and melting it, big deal, its still only going to absorb the microwave energy that is there minus the efficiency of absorbtion, (i.e it can't get hotter than the available energy) so making a road or beams out of microwaved moondust would take massive amounts of energy, to melt even a few mm!- you'd be better off using cement! (And what a waste of a pinch of moon dust! Why couldn't he have used Iron powder mixed with terrestrial minerals? Or Hey Greg, think we've found a use for all that meteorite cutting dust!!!) That's a thought, anyone tried melting meteorite dust in an old microwave? Put it in a mold and hey presto! Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: 11 February 2007 22:56 To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Anybody want to melt a lunar in the name ofscience? http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/117118772 5201140.xmlcoll=2 Scientist microwaves moondust, cooks up intriguing possibilities Sunday, February 11, 2007 John Mangels Plain Dealer Science Writer Lawrence Taylor is a self-professed lunatic, one of the original, moon-obsessed scientists who worked with the Apollo program during the 1960s. Many are retired, and some have died, but Taylor, now 68 and director of the University of Tennessee's Planetary Geosciences Institute, presses on, even though for a long time it seemed humans would never return to the moon. His recent discovery may literally pave the way for future lunar astronauts. One day, he was chatting with his old friend Harrison Schmitt, the lunar module pilot on the last moon mission, Apollo 17. Taylor was recounting his work with the tiniest lunar dust grains, those 20 microns and smaller. Moon dust has a curious property: Though it's the product of rocks on the lunar surface that have been smashed to bits by meteorite strikes, the dust has way more elemental iron in it than do the rocks it came from. The reason? The meteorite impacts vaporize some rock components. When the gas condenses, a chemical reaction leaves behind tiny particles of pure iron that collect in the pulverized dust. The solidified dust, which resembles melted glass, is shot through with nanometer-sized iron, like grains of pepper in an ice cube. Scientists first realized this in the 1970s when they studied the dust samples the Apollo astronauts brought back. Then for 30 years, Taylor said, we forgot it. In the mid-'90s, Taylor was re-examining the dust and noticed the smallest grains, with their patina of concentrated iron, were most susceptible to a magnet. When he described his findings to Schmitt, a lightbulb went off. He said, You remember all the problems we had on the moon?' Taylor recounted. It was the smallest dust grains that gave the Apollo astronauts the most trouble; the moonwalkers couldn't brush them off their spacesuits. He said, If we only had a brush with a little magnet on it, my God, what we could have done,' Taylor recalled. I said, Oh, wow!' Magnetic brushes and air filters were possibilities, but Taylor didn't stop there. The iron grains had given him an idea. Maybe you could melt moon dust. Using an old microwave his lab mates brewed tea in, Taylor zapped a pinch of moon dust. The iron grains absorbed the energy and dissipated it as heat. Hot damn, it melted, he said. By focusing the microwaves, with less than 100 watts, I could take lunar soil from room temperature to 1750 degrees Centigrade within 10 seconds. You can't boil water that fast. When they cooled, the grains had congealed into a solid mass. Not only did that solve the dust-spreading problems, it opened a world of possibilities. Taylor envisions a wheeled microwave -- a lunar Zamboni -- that could pave landing pads or roads. You could forge dust into bricks or I-beams for habitats. You also could capture melt gases and process them into rocket fuel and other consumables. Schmitt is pushing the idea of collecting helium from moon dust and using it to fire fusion reactors for clean energy back on Earth. (The technology still must be worked out.) Moon dust's potential has given Taylor a renewed vigor. I was thinking of slowing down and all of a sudden it hit the fan, he said. I was thinking about going back to the moon, and my wife said, Be careful what you wish for.' __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] HAPPY BIRTHDAY SIKHOTE-ALIN - February 12, 2007
http://www.spacerocksinc.com/sikhote-alin_1947-2007.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Akwanga Info?
Thanks Bernd. I just saw a piece on Schooler's website and it is listed as an H3-4. It is a beautifully brecciated meteorite, reminiscent of Zag and Abbott. Any idea where John Schooler got his classification? Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt wrote: I picked up a nice piece of Akwanga in Tucson, but the class is listed as H. Anyone have additional info on this meteorite? That is all that is listed in the C of M as well. Thanks, Matt Morgan Hello Matt and List, No additional info but as the fayalite is given as Fa19 and the total iron content as 26.13 % + Don Edwards' picture in the MetBull's Encyclopedia of Meteorites, it is presumably an H5 or even more likely an H6 chondrite. And, it does look brecciated in Don's picture. Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Happy SAFaCeD! + Belated Allende Birthday Wishes
Peter wrote: Happy...Sikhote-Alin-Fall-Celebration-Day! (SAFaCeD). Bernd added: In the hype over the fall date of the SA iron shower, we forgot another celebrity: A L L E N D E on February 8, 1969, 01:05 hrs. Happy birthday Sikhote-Alin and Allende. Allende Newspaper articles: http://www.meteoritearticles.com/znpallende.html Sikhote-Alin Newspaper articles: http://www.meteoritearticles.com/znpsikhote.html Here is a neat complete oriented Sikhote-Alin crystal I picked up in Tucson this year... http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colsikhote31gcrystal.html Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find (Photos)
Hello list, Photographs of Larry Atkin's recent Holbrook find linked below. Stellar find Larry! http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colholbrooklarry.html Clear Skies, Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com www.imca.cc (#3166) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] anybody ready to chat ?
Hi fellows, http://www.meteoritearticles.com/chatroom.html anybody there ? Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find (Photos)
Thanks Mark for the photo and congrats to Larry on this excellent find! Best Regards, Pat --- MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello list, Photographs of Larry Atkin's recent Holbrook find linked below. Stellar find Larry! http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colholbrooklarry.html Clear Skies, Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com www.imca.cc (#3166) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Workshop on the Chronology of Meteorites and the Early Solar System
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metchron2007/home.shtml Workshop on the Chronology of Meteorites and the Early Solar System November 5-7, 2007 Kauai, Hawaii First Announcement - February 2007 SPONSORED BY - Lunar and Planetary Institute, National Aeronautics and Space Administration University of Hawai'i at Manoa HOSTED BY - University of Hawai'i at Manoa (Hawai'i Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, School of Ocean and Earth Science and Technology, and the Institute for Astronomy) CONVENERS - Joel Baker, Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand Martin Bizzarro, Geological Institute, Denmark Klaus Keil, University of Hawai'i Alexander N. Krot, University of Hawai'i Edward R. D. Scott, University of Hawai'i SCIENTIFIC ORGANIZING COMMITTEE - Francis Albarede, Ecole Normale Superieure, France Yuri Amelin, Geological Survey of Canada Martin Bizzarro, Geological Institute, Denmark Marc Chaussidon, CRPG-SNRS, France Harold Connolly, Kingsborough College- City College of New York Andrew Davis, University of Chicago Gary Huss, University of Hawai'i Klaus Keil, University of Hawai'i Alexander Krot, University of Hawai'i Frank Podosek, Washington University Bo Reipurth, University of Hawai'i Edward R. D. Scott, University of Hawai'i Meenakshi Wadhwa, Arizona State University MEETING LOCATION AND DATES The Workshop on the Chronology of Meteorites and the Early Solar System will be held November 5-7, 2007, at the Sheraton Kauai Resort http://www.sheraton-kauai.com, 2440 Hoonani Road, Poipu Beach, Koloa, Hawaii (800-782-9488). Poipu Beach, located on Kauai's southern coastline, was recently named America's Best Beach by the Travel Channel, ranking top among the ten best beaches selected nationwide. For maps, information, and activities at Poipu Beach, go to www.poipubeach.org . KEY POINTS: Date: November 5-7, 2007 Location: Kauai, Hawai'i PURPOSE AND SCOPE This interdisciplinary meeting is aimed at understanding the chronology of the processes in the early solar system as revealed by meteorites. This includes the astrophysical setting of solar system formation, the origin of short-lived radioisotopes, and the chronology of nebular and asteroidal processes: formation of chondrules, refractory inclusions and matrices of primitive chondrites, timing of accretion and thermal processing (aqueous alteration, thermal metamorphism, and igneous differentiation) of asteroids and comets. The workshop will review recent advances in long-lived isotopes and short-lived isotopes such as 26Al-26Mg, 60Fe-60Ni, 10Be-10B, 41Ca-41K, 182Hf-182W, 53Mn-53Cr with the goal of reconciling long-lived and short-lived isotope chronologies, as well as potential chronological significance of O-isotopes. The workshop will also address technical aspects (i.e., limitations, advantages, precision, accuracy, interlaboratory calibration) of various analytical techniques used in cosmochronology such as LA-MC-ICPMS, MC-ICPMS, SIMS, and TIMS. An important goal of the workshop is to identify outstanding questions and establish future research directions. WORKSHOP FORMAT The three-day meeting will largely consist of invited talks with a small number of contributed talks and a poster session. The workshop proceedings will be published as review papers or regular articles in Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta. All papers will be subject to the normal GCA review process. A welcome reception will be held after registration check-in on Sunday, November 4. SPECIAL EVENTS The workshop will honor the outstanding contributions of C. J. Allegre, G. W. Lugmair, L. E. Nyquist, D. A. Papanastassiou, and G. J. Wasserburg to our understanding of the chronology of the early solar system. Their achievements will be honored with a reception and invited talks. ACCOMMODATIONS The Sheraton Kauai Resort is holding a block of 75 rooms for this meeting. A special daily rate of $150.00 plus applicable taxes (7.25% hotel occupancy tax and 4.16% state excise tax), single or double occupancy,
[meteorite-list] The First Hiking Map of Mars (Mars Express)
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMOI5O2UXE_0.html The first hiking maps of Mars Mars Express European Space Agency 12 February 2007 Scientists using data from the HRSC experiment onboard ESA's Mars Express spacecraft have produced the first 'hiker's maps' of Mars. Giving detailed height contours and names of geological features in the Iani Chaos region, the maps could become a standard reference for future Martian research. The maps are known as topographic maps because they use contour lines to show the heights of the landscape. The contour lines are superimposed upon high-resolution images of Mars, taken by the High-Resolution Stereo Camera (HRSC) onboard Mars Express. On Earth, such maps are used by hikers and planning authorities. [Context map of the Iani Chaos region on Mars] They are known in the UK as ordinance survey maps. Every country has its own equivalent. The contour lines themselves were determined using data from the HRSC. This data has been transformed into three-dimensional computer models of Mars, known as the HRSC Digital Terrain Models (DTMs). [Possible scales of topographic maps of Mars] The new maps have been produced under the leadership of the Principal Investigator (PI) G. Neukum (Freie Universität Berlin), as part of the effort of the science and experiment team of the HRSC experiment, by J. Albertz and S. Gehrke of the Institute for Geodesy and Geoinformation Science, Technische Universität Berlin, in cooperation with the German Aerospace Centre (DLR), Institute of Planetary Research, Berlin. They used the HRSC DTMs of the Iani Chaos region to produce a series of topographic maps at different scales, from 1:200 000 down to 1:50 000. [Another topographic map of Mars at 1:200 000] The researchers chose the Iani Chaos region because of its major topographical interest. It is covered in individual blocks and hills that form a chaotic pattern across the landscape. These 'islands' of rocks are likely all that remains of a previous surface of Mars. The areas in between the islands collapsed when cavities formed below the surface. Initially these cavities may have been supported by the presence of ice, which melted due to volcanic heat. As the water flowed out into Ares Vallis, towards the northern lowlands of Mars, the landscape collapsed and formed the Iani Chaos region we see today. [Topographic map of Mars at 1:100 000] The contour lines help the eye to understand the morphology of the surface shown in the images. On most of the maps, each line represents a difference of 250 metres in height. The maps also display the names of geographical features and the lines of Martian longitude and latitude. The maps are a demonstration of the kind of products that can be derived from the HRSC experiment. The HRSC is on the way to providing enough data to create such maps for the whole of Mars. This would generate 10 372 particular map sheets, each covering an equal area of the Martian surface. The maps would be to a scale of 1:200 000. [Topographic map of Mars at 1:50 000] Note for editors Up to now, some map sheets have been created as examples within the scope of the German HRSC experiment funding. A realization of the map series could only be carried out within a currently discussed comprehensive effort towards a planetary mapping programme at the European level. Gerhard Neukum, Freie Universität Berlin, is the HRSC Principal Investigator (PI). The science team consists of 45 co-investigators from 32 institutions, spread across 10 countries. HRSC was developed under the leadership of the PI at the German Aerospace Centre (DLR) and built in cooperation with industrial partners, EADS Astrium, Lewicki Microelectronic GmbH and Jena-Optronik GmbH. For more information Gerhard Neukum, HRSC Principal Investigator, Freie Universität Berlin Email: gerhard.neukum @ fu-berlin.de Agustin Chicarro, ESA Mars Express Project Scientist Email: agustin.chicarro @ esa.int __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Stardust Leaves Scientists to Ponder
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5210029 Stardust leaves scientists to ponder A year after the capsule fell into the Utah desert, much remains a mystery By Greg Lavine The Salt Lake Tribune February 12, 2007 NASA's Scott Sanford was one of the first scientists to reach the small Stardust mission capsule sitting on the west desert floor a little more than a year ago. Now he and other scientists around the globe are gleaning information about the origins of the solar system from the microscopic comet bits recovered from the capsule. Under the chilly pre-dawn skies of Jan. 15, 2006, Sanford and other researchers watched the intact capsule land and realized their seven-year wait for pieces of a comet was finally over. The space agency's Stardust spacecraft dropped off a sample return cannister, which landed around 3 a.m., containing debris snagged from a comet. We're picking up this thing that has travelled 3 billion miles to get to us, Sanford, of NASA's Ames Research Center in California, recalled thinking once he saw the intact capsule. The landing marked the end of the mission in one sense, but the start of an ongoing journey for scientists. Pieces of Comet Wild 2 are already illuminating details about our early solar system. Comet Wild 2 spent much of its life lurking at the frigid edges of the solar system, far from the intense heat of the sun. Researchers believed Wild 2 would serve as a frozen package of matter preserving material from the earliest days of the solar system, said Tom Duxbury, Stardust's project manager. Like many NASA missions, the findings yielded surprises. We found that 10 percent of the minerals were formed under high heat meaning the material was formed near the sun, he said. Because most of the comet's contents show no signs of exposure to heat, Wild 2 did spend most of its existence in the coldest reaches of the solar system. But that doesn't explain the heated particles. If they came from the inner part of the solar system, how did they get cycled out to the outer edge of the solar system, asked Duxbury of the heat-formed material. An explanation for this movement would need to be accounted for in creating models for how the solar system formed. In the earliest days, there was a solar nebula - a swirling, disk-shaped cloud of dust and gas with an early version of the sun at the center. This implies there was a lot of mixing going on in the early solar nebula, Sanford said of the early Stardust results. It is possible there may have been circulation patterns within the disk that moved material away from the developing sun. There is also the idea that some material was shot out of the inner part of the disk only to later land in the outer edge. The early solar system was not a nice, sedate little merry-go-round, Sanford said. Don Brownlee, a University of Washington researcher who was a principal investigator of Stardust, said the findings will force scientists to rethink the early solar system. There had been theories about materials being mixed, but no evidence to support it until this mission. This was a major surprise, he said. Another science oddity related to the name of the mission: Researchers anticipated Wild 2 to be chock-full of material dating to before the formation of the solar system. There was an expectation that most of the material of the comet would be what is called stardust, which is material formed around other suns, Brownlee said. How much stardust has Stardust found? Not much. Frank Stadermann, a researcher from Washington University of St. Louis, specializes in searching for stardust particles. The early goings were a bit dicey, but the mission name was not entirely a bust. Finally, we found one stardust particle, he said, adding there is plenty of material left to search. The search for more stardust, as well as other particles, will continue for years. Researchers will develop new techniques to examine the tiny particles. There is also another part of the Stardust mission that could continue in the near future. Duxbury said the spacecraft is still working and has plenty of fuel. NASA is considering a mission to fly the craft toward the Tempel 1 comet, which was made famous in 2005 when the space agency fired a missile-like projectile at it to see what would happen. For now, the Stardust craft is orbiting the sun in a hibernation-like state. While it waits for new orders, scientists will continue to reap the benefits of the craft's original mission. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find (Photos)
Hi All, I wanna congratulate both Maria and Larry once again on their recent meteorite finds. They came to the Southwest and did an amazing job, finding meteorites at Holbrook, Franconia and Gold Basin. I wanna say thanks also for sharing coordinates to the huge Holbrook find. After talking to them I thought that they had been in a new area and possibly expanded the known strewn field area. However, upon arriving at the coordinates on Saturday I was disappointed. I had been within 50 feet of Larry's find many, many times and driven by it many more. I hunted all day Saturday for more large meteorites, knowing I'd find a monster or go home empty. I went home empty! I did meet Mexico Doug out there while wandering around with a magnetic cane. I believe between him and my friend Earl they pulled another 20 or so grams out of Larry's honey hole. Thanks again Larry and Maria. If you guys lived out here you'd kick all our butts! Ruben Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] test
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[meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find
Hello Larry, Maria, and List, First of all, of course, sincere congratulations! They came to the Southwest and did an amazing job, finding meteorites at Holbrook, Franconia and Gold Basin. .. which should remind us all of Bob Haag's famous words: The key is to get out there and look for them. Usually some pieces were missed in the initial search. But: I had been within 50 feet of Larry's find many, many times and driven by it many more. .. which shows how difficult it can be, even for experienced meteorite hunters like Ruben Garcia. .. which should not discourage anyone willing to search the strewnfield again and again, even though Foote (no, not Gary ;-) remarked in his pre- liminary note on the Holbrook shower in 1912: the field is now pretty well cleaned up. Hmm! If he had known what he didn't know then, ... he was wrong! Here is one of the die-hard observations from Foote's notes: One piece larger than an orange fell into a tree in a yard at Aztec cutting the limb off slick and clean and falling to the ground, and when picked up was almost red-hot. Von Achen, who saw them fall, reported that they were too hot to pick up. Two accounts state that they became lighter in color after cooling. According to Foote's notes, the ellipsoidal strewnfield extended west-east but one question has not yet been answered satisfactorily: Were the stones indiscriminately spread over the ground, or were they found sorted according to size (and weight)? How do Larry's find of a lifetime and Maria's finds fit into this puzzle? Happy to own an 8.3-gram individual (label no. 331) purchased from the Zeitschels in 1987 and a 0.45-gram thin platelet, Bernd P.S.: Please, don't forget to include the Branch family in your thoughts and your prayers ! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Looking for.....
Does anyone have or know of anyone that has any of the following pallasites for sale? I'm not looking for much, maybe just a few grams. Acomita, Hambleton,Otinapa, or NWA2683 David Hardy Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorites on Delphi
I've opened a Delphi forum for meteorite afficionados. Signup is free. If you're interested go to; http://forums.delphiforums.com/meteorites1/start Gary __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find
Bernd, Larry, Maria and List, Here's some more food for thought concerning the Holbrook strewnfield. One of my best friends, Dave Andrews, lives in Holbrook and has hunted the strewnfield hundreds of times. He was Larry and Maria when Larry made his find of a lifetime. Dave and I talked on the phone while the three of them were still out in the field, and Dave told me it was found in an area that many of us had been over dozens of times. How could that be? Over the years, Dave has noted that wind and water erosion probably come into play. After a good wind or rain storm, artifacts ( indian pottery shards) and meteorites become exposed. They seem to appear in places where they weren't just days before. In actuality, they were there all along but were hidden below a thin layer of sand. Anyone who has ever hunter there has noticed that there are small hillocks of sand mounded up around the bases of some of the indigenous shrubs. My guess is that once these shrubs die and are blown away by the winds (which can last for days and reach speeds of 50 MPH and more) the sand moves on without the shrubs there to hold it in place. Several years ago, Dave, John Blennert and I were hunting in Holbrook. While walking along with Dave, he bent over and picked up a small complete stone of about 2 grams. It was perched atop a small column of soil very much like a golf ball sitting on a tee. The soil (mostly sand) around it had blown away leaving the small stone nearly half an inch above the surrounding soil. Best, John Gwilliam At 01:09 PM 2/12/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Larry, Maria, and List, First of all, of course, sincere congratulations! They came to the Southwest and did an amazing job, finding meteorites at Holbrook, Franconia and Gold Basin. .. which should remind us all of Bob Haag's famous words: The key is to get out there and look for them. Usually some pieces were missed in the initial search. But: I had been within 50 feet of Larry's find many, many times and driven by it many more. .. which shows how difficult it can be, even for experienced meteorite hunters like Ruben Garcia. .. which should not discourage anyone willing to search the strewnfield again and again, even though Foote (no, not Gary ;-) remarked in his pre- liminary note on the Holbrook shower in 1912: the field is now pretty well cleaned up. Hmm! If he had known what he didn't know then, ... he was wrong! Here is one of the die-hard observations from Foote's notes: One piece larger than an orange fell into a tree in a yard at Aztec cutting the limb off slick and clean and falling to the ground, and when picked up was almost red-hot. Von Achen, who saw them fall, reported that they were too hot to pick up. Two accounts state that they became lighter in color after cooling. According to Foote's notes, the ellipsoidal strewnfield extended west-east but one question has not yet been answered satisfactorily: Were the stones indiscriminately spread over the ground, or were they found sorted according to size (and weight)? How do Larry's find of a lifetime and Maria's finds fit into this puzzle? Happy to own an 8.3-gram individual (label no. 331) purchased from the Zeitschels in 1987 and a 0.45-gram thin platelet, Bernd P.S.: Please, don't forget to include the Branch family in your thoughts and your prayers ! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] www.venusmeteorite.com - what are your opinions on this claim
Randall, I think we would all be interested in seeing photos of the crater you found and your suspect meteorites rather than the roundabout way you began this discussion. As to whether anyone can assist you, depends if you are seeking truth or a preconceived idea. If you are really seeking the truth, I offer one piece of advice, don't rely on your own conclusions. Let the evidence (test results) as evaluated by two experts be the final say so. If the first does not lead you where you thought it might, get a second opinion of the evidence and if nothing has changed, let it drop. Sadly, there are too many persons that have obsessed over simple objects to their folly. Instead of heeding correct expert analyses they jump to the next expert hoping for a different result, critical of any who do not share their imagined expectation. Why can't it be this rare thing or that rare thing they ask. (see - http://tinyurl.com/34zlbf) The fruitage of obsession is frustration and paranoia. Not a good road to be on. Best Wishes on the recovery of the main mass, Ken Newton Randall Gregory wrote: Ken, Thank you for you reply and the link to webwrongs. Yes, it's theolitic basalt with a melted surface. I hope you will keep an open mind and take the time to read this. Please take a look at the Geophysical Meteors on the web link you provided. I have had many communications with the author of that website, Dr. Andrei Ol'khovatov. If you would look at the Peruvian meteorite sighting on that website you will see that it was a mid-day witnessed fall and the impact was recorded by 3 different seismic stations (Arica Chile, Arequipa Peru, and Lima Peru). Dr. Mutsumi Shisutka (Institute Geophysical Peru) and Dr. Armando Minaya UNSA (University National San Agustin) assisted me by providing seismic recordings, and in turn, I provided them with the actual location of the crater. The actual location of the crater was important in helping to adjust their equipment in refining earthquake epicenters. The main mass at this current time in in-extractable due to the terrain but efforts are underway contracting with a heavy equipment operator to bulldoze a small dirt road. I have talked with the local government about buying a 100 hectares mining concession encompassing the crater to protect it. When the main mass is uncovered, I'll know more. It took me 2 years and 6 separate expeditions to find the crater. I lived for a time in the area of El Castillo with a family that witnessed this event. With satellite photos, eyewitness accounts, seismic data, detailed charts and assistance provided by the national university I searched for the impact area. I found it and I have all the proof. What is interesting is that some of the specimens I collected near the crater are identical to one of the pictures in the venusmeteorite.com. I went to ACTLABS in Lima, Peru to have a sample analyzed but they lacked the equipment necessary. They told me that ACTLABS.com (Canada) might be able to provide this analysis.The type of testing I need is space weathering. Specifically, solar to galactic ray tracks, oxygen isotope fractionation patterns, radionuclide measurements, and noble gas analysis. I would like to find a planetary geologist who will take to time to look at a specimen and read the reports but in reality, my expectations are low. I wrote to Dr. Korotev some time ago, but he too has doubts and his area of expertise is lunar meteorites. I can tell you that some of the rocks near the crater have a black splatter with the same characteristics as the samples. In an area of tan to rust colored terrain, a rock that looks like melted black plastic is unmistakable. I talked with a Peruvian government hydrologist (Jorge Mena) that works in this general area and he told me he has never seen rocks like that in his 40 years in the field searching for underground aquifers. Can you speculate what would a inner-planet meteorite look like? Does the fact that it fell mid-day have any significance? Would you expect a mid-day fall? Are mid-day falls rare? And if 20 years ago someone said that they had a meteorite that might just be from Mars, would anyone believe them? I have a lot of evidence but no definitive proof that these are meteorites or where they might have come from. I'm hoping you can help me find the answer. I am sending a copy of this email to Dr. Korotev in the hope that he would be kind enough to provide a introduction to Dr. Brett Gladman or Dr. Akira Yamaguchi if possible. Randall Hi Randall, It's basalt. Here are some more meteorwrong sites (bottom half) http://home.earthlink.net/~magellon/webwrongs.html Best, Ken Newton Randall Gregory wrote: Has anyone seen this website and if so, what are your opinions as to the validity of his claims that the meteorites
[meteorite-list] Alan Stern Selected to Lead Science Mission Directorate at NASA
Feb. 12, 2007 David Mould/Bob Jacobs Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1898/1600 RELEASE: 07-38 PLANETARY SCIENTIST SELECTED TO LEAD MISSION DIRECTORATE WASHINGTON - NASA Administrator Michael Griffin announced Monday that Dr. S. Alan Stern will be the agency's associate administrator for the Science Mission Directorate, effective April 2. Stern succeeds Dr. Mary L. Cleave who announced her retirement. Stern joins NASA from the Southwest Research Institute's Space Science and Engineering Division, Boulder, Colo., where he has been serving as executive director of the Space Science and Engineering Division. As chief executive of NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Stern will direct a wide variety of research and scientific exploration programs for Earth studies, space weather, the solar system and the universe beyond. In addition, he will manage a broad spectrum of grant-based research programs and spacecraft projects to study Earth and the universe. Stern is a planetary scientist and an author who has published more than 175 technical papers and 40 popular articles. His research has focused on studies of our solar system's Kuiper belt and Oort cloud, comets, satellites of the outer planets, Pluto and the search for evidence of solar systems around other stars. He has worked on spacecraft rendezvous theory, terrestrial polar mesospheric clouds, galactic astrophysics and studies of tenuous satellite atmospheres, including the atmosphere of the moon. Stern has a long association with NASA, serving on the NASA Advisory Council and as the principal investigator on a number of planetary and lunar missions, including the New Horizons Pluto-Kuiper Belt mission. He was the principal investigator of the Southwest Ultraviolet Imaging System, which flew on two space shuttle missions, STS-85 in 1997 and STS-93 in 1999. He has been a guest observer on numerous NASA satellite observatories, including the International Ultraviolet Explorer, the Hubble Space Telescope, the International Infrared Observer and the Extreme Ultraviolet Observer. He holds bachelor's degrees in physics and astronomy and master's degrees in aerospace engineering and planetary atmospheres from the University of Texas, Austin. In 1989, Stern earned a doctorate in astrophysics and planetary science from the University of Colorado at Boulder. He is an instrument-rated commercial pilot and flight instructor, with both powered and sailplane ratings. Stern and his wife have three children. For more information about NASA and its suite of science programs, visit the Internet at: http://science.hq.nasa.gov/ -end- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Happy SAFCD + Belated Allende Fall Birthday
Happy...Sikhote-Alin-Fall-Celebration-Day! Many thanks to Michael for his Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day during the whole month of February! Peter In the hype over the fall date of the SA iron shower, we forgot another celebrity: A L L E N D E on February 8, 1969, 01:05 hrs. Bernd I KNEW there must be some connection to meteorites and to the fact that February has long been my favorite month of the year! Climbing the Hill toward equinox beats the downhill slide. Keep looking up or down whatever your stage of meteor or meteorite searching may take you. Jerry Flaherty __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Comets Clash at Heart of Helix Nebula (Spitzer)
MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE JET PROPULSION LABORATORY CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PASADENA, CALIF=2E 91109 TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011 http://www=.jpl.nasa.gov Whitney Clavin (818) 354-4673 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. News Release: 2007-014 Feb. 12, 2007 Comets Clash at Heart of Helix Nebula A bunch of rowdy comets are colliding and kicking up dust around a dead star, according to new observations from NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope. The dead star lies at the center of the much-photographed Helix nebula, a shimmering cloud of gas with an eerie resemblance to a giant eye. We were surprised to see so much dust around this star, said Dr. Kate Su of the University of Arizona, Tucson, lead author of a paper on the results appearing in the March 1 issue of Astrophysical Journal Letters. The dust must be coming from comets that survived the death of their sun. Spitzer's spectacular new view of the Helix nebula shows colors as seen in infrared and is online at http://www.nasa.gov/spitzer and www.spitzer.caltech.edu/Media . The dusty dead star appears as a dot in the middle of the nebula, like a red pupil in a green monster's eye. The Helix nebula, located about 700 light-years away in the constellation Aquarius, was formed when a star much like our sun died and sloughed off its skin, or outer layers. Radiation from the dead star's hot core, called a white dwarf, heats the expelled material, causing it to fluoresce with vivid colors. This cosmic beauty, termed a planetary nebula, won't last long. In about 10,000 years, its shiny clouds will fade, leaving the white dwarf and its circling comets to cool down alone in empty space. Astronomers have long studied the white dwarf at the center of the Helix nebula, but nobody had detected any dust close to it until now. Spitzer, an infrared space-based observatory, was able to pick up the glow of a dusty disk circling around the stellar corpse at a distance of about 35 to 150 astronomical units (an astronomical unit is the distance between our sun and Earth, which is 150 million kilometers or 93 million miles). At first, Su and her team were shocked to see the dust. They said that when the star died, expelling its outer layers, dust in the system should have been blown away. The team then obtained more detailed data, which again pointed to the presence of a dusty disk. Where is the dust coming from? According to the astronomers, it is most likely being freshly churned up by comets smashing into each other in the outer fringes of the white dwarf's system. A few million years ago, before the white dwarf formed, when it was still a lively star like our sun, its comets and possibly planets would have been in stable orbits, harmoniously traveling around the star. But when the star died, any inner planets would have burned up or been swallowed as the star expanded. Outer planets, asteroids and comets would have been jostled about and thrown into each other's paths. Our own solar system will undergo a similar transformation in about five billion years. Like the Helix nebula, it will sparkle with colors. Our sun, which will have become a white dwarf, will be circled by a band of surviving outer planets and frenzied comets. Spitzer has seen evidence before for such comet survivors around dead stars. In January of last year, astronomers reported using the observatory to find a dusty disk around a white dwarf, only the disk was much closer in, circling at a distance of only .005 to .03 astronomical units (http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/Media/releases/ssc2006-04/index.shtml). Finding evidence for planetary activity around a white dwarf is a surprise, said Dr. George Rieke of the University of Arizona, a co-author of the paper. Finding it twice with such different properties is a shock! The Spitzer data might also help explain a mystery surrounding the Helix nebula's white dwarf. Previous observations with the German X-ray telescope Röntgensatellit and NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory indicated that the white dwarf was throwing out highly energetic X-rays. While the white dwarf is hot, about 110,000 Kelvin (nearly 200,000 degrees Fahrenheit), it is not hot enough to explain the energetic X-rays. Astronomers thought that perhaps the white dwarf was accreting matter onto itself from a hidden companion star. But the Spitzer observations point to a different answer. According to Su's team member Dr. You-Hua Chu of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, material in the newfound disk surrounding the white dwarf might be falling onto the star and triggering the X-ray outbursts. The high-energy X-rays were an unsolved mystery, said Chu. Now, we might have found an answer in the infrared. Other authors of this work include Drs. Patrick J. Huggins of New York University, New York; Robert Gruendl of University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign; Ralf Napiwotzki of University of Hertfordshire, United
[meteorite-list] Meteor Crater pics.
Dear Listoids, One week before the Tucson Show we went to see the Meteor Crater and Nininger museum ruins again. The whole area was covered under a blanket of snow. Awesome !! The only meteorite pictured in the slide show is Bear Creek which was purchased at the show. One of the pics show the Nininger Museum viewed from the crater rim so you need to look carefull for a tiny dark spot in the far distance. For those who wanna have a look, here's the link...have fun !! http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999gid=15208396uid=8117688 Jan Yvonne Bartels Heavenly Bodies Meteorites. www.heavenlybodies.nl Holland. Meteorites, Close Encounters Of The Best Kind. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] www.venusmeteorite.com - what are your opinions on this claim
Hi Randall and Others: I did some checking. To quote Tim Swindle: Yes, there may be meteorites from Venus, but we have not found them yet! It is much more difficult to get something out of the gravity well of Venus, through the Venus atmosphere, and out of the gravity well of the Sun. It is much easier to get things off Mars and let Poynting Robertson effect, etc. bring it in toward the Earth. How would we recognize a Venus meteorite? Argon dating. Potassium decays to argon. At the temperture of the Venus surface, the argon would almost immediately escape. So, would not create argon 40 that could be retained by a rock until it was out in space. Therefore, its argon age would be about the same as its cosmic ray exposure age. Larry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteor Crater pics.
Thanks Jan, Dawn and I plan our first visit to the Crater this August[yipes] as part of a trip with the Meteoritical Planetary Society Meeting in Tuscon. The pics are a great introduction for Dawn. Since I generally delete much of what I recieve unless it'll be applicable it the near future, I don't have a stash, though I wish I did, of all the wonderful pics of the Crater List members have provided down through the years. So thank you once more. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Jan Bartels [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 5:52 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Crater pics. Dear Listoids, One week before the Tucson Show we went to see the Meteor Crater and Nininger museum ruins again. The whole area was covered under a blanket of snow. Awesome !! The only meteorite pictured in the slide show is Bear Creek which was purchased at the show. One of the pics show the Nininger Museum viewed from the crater rim so you need to look carefull for a tiny dark spot in the far distance. For those who wanna have a look, here's the link...have fun !! http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999gid=15208396uid=8117688 Jan Yvonne Bartels Heavenly Bodies Meteorites. www.heavenlybodies.nl Holland. Meteorites, Close Encounters Of The Best Kind. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Perfect Oriented Iron
Hello Mark and List, I took some close-up pictures of the oriented iron http://www.meteorman.org/Oriented.htm If anyone has any pictures of any other oriented irons like this or knows of a where abouts. Please e-mail me off list. I would like to put together a web page showing others. Regards, Tim Heitz http://www.meteorman.org - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 1:13 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] The Perfect Oriented Iron - on display at Days Innroom108 Hello Tim and list, That is the best oriented iron I have ever seen. Please take the time to show the list more photographs of it. Nice seeing you and Patricia again. (Hope I remembered your wife's name correctly...if not, please allow me to use the excuse of 36 hours without sleep.) Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Perfect Oriented Iron
Hello everyone I do not want to start the old thread about do irons have fusion crust or not. But why the heck does this one look like bare metal? On 2/12/07, Timothy Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Mark and List, I took some close-up pictures of the oriented iron http://www.meteorman.org/Oriented.htm If anyone has any pictures of any other oriented irons like this or knows of a where abouts. Please e-mail me off list. I would like to put together a web page showing others. Regards, Tim Heitz http://www.meteorman.org - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 1:13 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] The Perfect Oriented Iron - on display at Days Innroom108 Hello Tim and list, That is the best oriented iron I have ever seen. Please take the time to show the list more photographs of it. Nice seeing you and Patricia again. (Hope I remembered your wife's name correctly...if not, please allow me to use the excuse of 36 hours without sleep.) Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Miller Po Box 314 Gerber Ca 96035 www.meteoritefinder.com 530-384-1598 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] my tatahouine
Hello list.I said when it came I would show it you.For those who have never seen a tatahouine meteorite bigger than,say 11 grams,here is my 62 gram specimen direct from tucson.This is about the only place that I know where you can get them this size.Let me know what you think.It is on my homepage of my wewbsite. steve Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!! www.chicagometeorites.net Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ebay auction question
Was there an 80 lb meteorite that sold for 120 thousand in December, as mentioned in the auction for this piece of slag? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200078967462 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] www.venusmeteorite.com - what are your opinions on this claim
Hi, Randall, Ken, Larry, List, Some points here. Venus meteorites possible? Yes. Objection: Venus' thick atmosphere. Well, in theory, Mars' thin atmosphere is sufficient to consume small objects moving from the surface at Mars' escape velocity, so in theory, they can't get here either, but somehow, they manage to do it. Moreover, examination of Mars' rocks shows that some were not subjected to any high level of shock. So, how rocks get gently knocked off any planet with an atmosphere is presently pretty much of a mystery. Neither do any of the Mars' rocks show any signs of an ancient (Martian) ablation before they arrived here. [I have a theory, of course, but not room enough in this margin to write it down. If anyone has a taste for plasmamagnetohydrodynamics, I'll email it to you.] The pioneering simulations of interplanetary transfer of material by impact were done by Brett Gladman* in the mid 1990's (as soon as we found out that rocks could get here from Mars). They've been repeated and improved for a decade, and yes, rocks from Venus (and Mercury) can get to Earth. In fact, these simulations (of 100,000's of random particles) show that the number of Venusites should be about half the number of Marsites. (Mercurites much less common; about 6-7% of Marsites.) *The exchange of impact ejecta between terrestrial planets, by Brett J. Gladman, Joseph A. Burns, Martin Duncan, Pascal Lee and Harold F. Levison, Science, 1996. Can you speculate what would a inner-planet meteorite look like? Not wanting to offend, but on the outside, all freshly fallen meteorites look very much alike. In the inside, it's a different story. What Venusian rock would look like is speculative, except that much of the Venusian surface is basaltic. So, a Venusian meteorite would most likely be a basalt, and would in many ways, greatly resemble a terrestrial rock. We have, therefore, the odd situation that the very thing that makes a rock a Venusian candidate is the thing that makes people dismiss it. Larry has put his finger right on the key difference: argon. OK, argon and neon, but mostly argon. Most of the argon in the Earth's atmosphere is argon-40. We presume that it got there by decay from the potassium-40 in the rocks of the Earth. There is a little bit of argon-36 which (we presume) is left over from the solar nebula. The terrestrial 40/36 ratio is 400-to-one. But Venus? The Venusian 40/36 ratio is one-to-one. It is inexplicable. It can't be left over from the solar nebula. Can Venus be that depleted in potassium? Or has it never had vulcanism? Both are ridiculous. It just doesn't make any sense. It's a mystery. That's data for you, bless it's heart. Moreover, Venus' surface is recent (meaning about half a billion years). The whole planet was surface melted, possibly to the depth of the crust; the atmospheric argon of Venus should be mostly rock-released argon-40. And argon is too heavy to be lost easily from the atmosphere. However that 50/50 ratio got there, it means that if you're going to test a Venus rock for anything, the one thing you want to do is ARGON ISOTOPES. (Well, all the nobles. There is also an excess of neon, but not the other nobles.) It was, after all, how we recognized that those odd SNC meteorites were from Mars: their unique noble gas ratios matched the Viking data. I guarantee one thing: the noble gas ratios of a real Venus rock will be WEIRD, whatever the details. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: ken newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Randall Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] www.venusmeteorite.com - what are your opinions on this claim Randall, I think we would all be interested in seeing photos of the crater you found and your suspect meteorites rather than the roundabout way you began this discussion. As to whether anyone can assist you, depends if you are seeking truth or a preconceived idea. If you are really seeking the truth, I offer one piece of advice, don't rely on your own conclusions. Let the evidence (test results) as evaluated by two experts be the final say so. If the first does not lead you where you thought it might, get a second opinion of the evidence and if nothing has changed, let it drop. Sadly, there are too many persons that have obsessed over simple objects to their folly. Instead of heeding correct expert analyses they jump to the next expert hoping for a different result, critical of any who do not share their imagined expectation. Why can't it be this rare thing or that rare thing they ask. (see - http://tinyurl.com/34zlbf) The fruitage of obsession is frustration and paranoia. Not a good road to be on. Best Wishes on the recovery of the main mass, Ken Newton Randall Gregory wrote: Ken, Thank you for you reply and
[meteorite-list] Langs Auction - Official Statement
Dear List Members, Having just returned home from the 2007 Tucson show Allan and I would like to make the following statement regarding our annual meteorite auction: 1) First of all, thank you to our many friends and customers who participated in the 2007 auction. It was intended to be a fun, family-run event, and we are very disappointed that a few individuals have attempted to turn it into something deceitful. 2) We are not professional auctioneers, and freely admit that we made some mathematical errors during the bidding. We had one person handling the absentee bids, one auctioneer, one tabulating the results, and one spotting bids. In a few instances we evidently failed to log every absentee bid, and some lots sold for less than they should have. We apologize for those errors and will make good on them. Allan will personally contact the high bidders on every lot in question, and offer them a replacement specimen, or find another appropriate way in which to compensate them for our mistakes. 3) All specimens sold were from Allan's personal collection. Funds raised from the auction will help support The Langheinrich Fossil Preserve -- our not-for-profit educational and research paleontology facility in upstate New York. Any bidder who is unhappy with any item purchased at the auction can return it to us for a full refund. 4) At the close of the auction we could not account for three specimens which had been won by Mr. Karl. At the time we believed those pieces to have been stolen. We offered Mr. Karl an item from the auction catalog at far below our reserve as a thank you for his understanding regarding the lost specimens. He accepted that offer, and left with a very fine historic specimen for less than Allan's cost. Later, when packing up the room, we discovered the three specimens had accidentally been put in a box in the kitchen. We are happy to make those specimens available to Mr. Karl, at the hammer price, if he still wants them. 5) Please note that the person making the loudest accusations regarding our integrity was not at the auction, and did not even place absentee bids. We have been in business for over thirty years, and we value our good reputation above everything else. Any person -- whether a bidder or an interested party -- who has questions about the auction is invited to contact us in private. Allan will personally ensure that every person who bid at the auction is happy with the final outcome. 6) We are very disappointed that our integrity has been questioned by one or two people. We also feel that The Meteorite List is not an appropriate forum for business discussions, so this will be our only public statement regarding the auction. Once again we thank our good friends and customers for their decades of support. Please contact us off-List with any questions or concerns, and we will make sure they are taken care of. Sincerely, Iris Lang R.A. Langheinrich Meteorites Langs Fossils mail2web LIVE Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Langs Auction - Official Statement
Iris, Most of us knew that you and Allan deserved better than what was being said about you on this list. Its a shame how things can be misconstrued on this list, especially by people who weren't even present at your auction. Its just another example of the lack of credibility that can be expected from claims on this forum. Thanks for treating myself and my wife with genuine hospitality and class at the show this year. Its always a pleasure ! Bob Evans __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay auction question
Hi, Darren, and All, The seller of this piece of slag doesn't claim to have sold such an 80-lb meteorite himself, only that one was sold. If he did, he got no feedback, since his feedback is zero, with no positives and no negatives since 2003. A search of completed auctions offered at over $100,000 for Meteorites only reaches back 30 days, but it reveals just 27 unsold six-digit rocks from Goren The Giant Jpeg-Mailer Lindfors and an Aston-Martin DB9 Meteorite (by far the best meteorite of the bunch)! I'd much rather have the Aston Martin than a fistful of Swedish field stones. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 7:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay auction question Was there an 80 lb meteorite that sold for 120 thousand in December, as mentioned in the auction for this piece of slag? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200078967462 __ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find
Hola Johnny Q, You may be right, but as large as that piece was, it might have taken a couple of years or so for it to be washed or eroded out. But you are right, it was found near the top of a moundjust slightly down from the top. Even one fragment was found under a cow pie. ;-) The miniscule 69 gms. I found that day (largest fragment 43 gms...one of my better days), just didn't seem worth fussing over after Larry's whopper Holy Grail find. ;-) I hope we can post some pictures with some meaning and size scale to it. I have some. The pictures Mark posted (thanks Mark) have no indication as to size. Also, I think that minus the fragment weights, should be worded plus the fragment weights. I know that piece is at least a kilo in weight. Maybe the largest Holbrook in 30 yrs. or so? Maybe Steve Schoner could refresh our memory on his/or others finds? I know he has found some large ones in the past. As far as Bernd's question as to the distribution of large to small stones, I see no pattern whatsoever. Seems to my personal experience, the larger ones are in the middle of the north side. However, there are records of 5 lbs. found on the south side in 1969. (Everet Gibson, I believe). I/we've found a lot of stuff on the south side, but as to when I was there, nothing of size larger than 20 gmsthen came Maria last year. She found 100g or so of an individual in the eastern past on the south side. Nothing that says the larger ones are found in the furthest part of the strewnfield. I've been working on finding things further from the horizontal and vertical plane of the field. I feel in the last few years that we have expanded the 2 mile x 1/2 mile rule by quite a bit. I'm only sharing this info because it really isn't easy to just walk in here and find something substantial. WellI take that back...Larry just did it. Congrats to Larrydon't know how you did it, but you did it. Dave (Sending this as plain text in hopes it will be posted) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day - February 13, 2007
http://www.spacerocksinc.com/February_13.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find
OhI hope Ruben and Doug left my nickle offering as a tribute to the meteorite Gods when they dug for more Larry's fragments. ;-) Peace, Dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Happy B-Day Sikhote-Alin
Dear Sikhote-Alin: Happy birthday old friend! Are you really sixty today? You hardly look a day over five billion. Here are a couple of new photos I'd like to share: http://www.aerolite.org/catalogue/sikhote-1582-i.htm Looks like a pretty ordinary piece of shrapnel, right? 1,582 grams. Well, please take a look at the other side: http://www.aerolite.org/catalogue/sikhote-1582-ii.htm Several large, well-formed regmaglypts are clearly visible. As we know, the average size of thumbprints on Sikhote-Alin individuals increases in proportion to the size of the individual. The size of these thumbprints (1 1/2 inches by 3/4) suggests a large mass. I believe this to be an exterior fragment from one of the bigger Sikhote masses which exploded in flight. Comments? And really . . . happy birthday. My collection would be so dull without you : ) And when I have time -- tomorrow hopefully -- will finally get around to posting my annual Tucson Show wrap-up. Regards to all, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Eyewitness Account of the Holbrook Fall
Hi, Nice eyewitness account of the Holbrook fall. Sterling K. Webb TEMPE RESIDENT REMEMBERS METEOR'S PLUNGE 86 YEARS AGO 30 May 1998 MESA, Ariz. (AP) _ Pauline McCleve of Tempe doesn't need to go to the movies to see scary scenes of meteors streaking toward frightened people. She can just rerun one of the memories in her head. Now 103, McCleve remembers the explosion in the sky when a rock from outer space fell near Holbrook in northern Arizona on July 19, 1912. ``That was the loudest sound I ever heard in my life,'' she recalled recently. ``There was no sound from us except a gasp of terror.'' She was 17, standing outside her family home in Holbrook with her parents and some of her 10 brothers and sisters. The meteor dominated the early evening sky. ``It was coming right toward us. We thought we were going to die. ``The closer it came, the more frightened we were. We just stood there paralyzed.'' The boom was heard as far away as 100 miles north and south of the city, according to newspaper accounts from that week. ``People ran into the streets and stared at the sky,'' the Holbrook News reported. Witnesses in Winslow, 30 miles farther west, saw a smoky trail streaking eastward toward Holbrook. McCleve remembered it as a glowing fireball with a bright tail. The boom came from a chunk of asteroid shattering into thousands of pieces. It probably was about the size of an office desk when it first entered the atmosphere, according to Carleton Moore, director of the Arizona State University Center of Meteorite Studies. ``Holbrook is still the only observed fall in Arizona,'' Moore said. ``All the other meteorites in Arizona have just been found sitting on the ground.'' Observed falls, in which a meteorite is seen in the air and then recovered on the ground, occur only about once every two or three years anywhere in the world. Several pieces of the dense black stone now sit in one of the center's public display cases on campus, including the biggest chunk that hit the ground, weighing 14 pounds, and tiny bits the size of peas. McCleve remembered, ``It exploded like shrapnel.'' The pieces landed in a 3-mile-long ellipse centered about six miles east of Holbrook. One baseball-sized chunk knocked the limb off a tree. ``Papa said, `Oh, it missed us, but that landed very close. I'll go out in the morning and look for it.''' Other folks had the same idea, and many of them went out to collect pieces of the dense black stones. More than 14,000 pieces were collected that summer, mostly from the surface of the ground, but some of the largest were embedded up to 6 inches deep. Many were purchased by a Philadelphia collector, Warren Foote, who wrote the first scientific paper about the Holbrook meteorite four months later. McCleve's father, Richard Decatur Greer, and her younger brother, Pratt Greer, earned nearly $2,000 gathering and selling pieces of the Holbrook meteorite, she said. The man she married the following year, James Cyrus McCleve, made $400. ``It was hard times, and everybody was glad to get what they could,'' she said. In 1912, $2,000 was enough to buy a modest home. About 2,000 additional pieces of the Holbrook meteorite have been found since 1912, some as recently as 1991. Moore gave a talk about meteorites to the Kiwanis Club at the Friendship Village retirement center in Tempe last month. Afterward, he received a note that McCleve, a resident of the center, would like to talk with him. Some of the pieces of the Holbrook meteorite at ASU were part of Foote's collection, so some may have originally been picked up by McCleve's father, Moore said. McCleve has remembered the meteor many times in the past 86 years. ``That was the most terrifying time in all my years,'' she said, ``Those few seconds of the meteor coming toward us.'' http://www.swanet.org/ telnet://aztec2.asu.edu Southwestern Archaeology (SWA) - History, Archaeology, and Anthropology of the American Southwest! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find
Hi, Everybody Nothing that says the larger ones are found in the furthest part of the strewnfield. Actually, Norton's Rocks From Space (2nd Edition, pp. 70-72) says just that: The more massive meteoroids, with their greater kinetic energy... travel further down the major axis of the distribution ellipse before impacting Earth. He shows a map of the Homestead, Iowa strewnfield showing its distribution by weight, and for a recent site. He does say that with larger fields or ones with more numerous small fragments, this distribution may be concealed or hard to map. Of course, Holbrook is a classic fall of many small fragments, but presumably IF you had a map that charted the find location of EVERY piece by weight, some such pattern would appear. C of M says, a shower of stones fell, estimated to number 14,000, of total weight about 481lb (218kg), with individuals weighing from 6.6kg to a few milligrams. Where'd that 14-pounder (6696 gm) fall? Anybody know? Here's a paper on the distribution of sizes (not locations): http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/0295-5075/43/5/598/node4.html They say Holbrook is the product of two breakups, one after the other, when the largest fragment then re-fragmented again. I just posted a nice eyewitness account of the Holbrook fall that I ran across. I note particularly the remark in that account that says all the larger pieces were embedded six inches or more in the soil and all the smaller pieces were found on the surface of the ground. Perhaps the really BIG Holbrooks are still down there? Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: DNAndrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:53 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find Hola Johnny Q, You may be right, but as large as that piece was, it might have taken a couple of years or so for it to be washed or eroded out. But you are right, it was found near the top of a moundjust slightly down from the top. Even one fragment was found under a cow pie. ;-) The miniscule 69 gms. I found that day (largest fragment 43 gms...one of my better days), just didn't seem worth fussing over after Larry's whopper Holy Grail find. ;-) I hope we can post some pictures with some meaning and size scale to it. I have some. The pictures Mark posted (thanks Mark) have no indication as to size. Also, I think that minus the fragment weights, should be worded plus the fragment weights. I know that piece is at least a kilo in weight. Maybe the largest Holbrook in 30 yrs. or so? Maybe Steve Schoner could refresh our memory on his/or others finds? I know he has found some large ones in the past. As far as Bernd's question as to the distribution of large to small stones, I see no pattern whatsoever. Seems to my personal experience, the larger ones are in the middle of the north side. However, there are records of 5 lbs. found on the south side in 1969. (Everet Gibson, I believe). I/we've found a lot of stuff on the south side, but as to when I was there, nothing of size larger than 20 gmsthen came Maria last year. She found 100g or so of an individual in the eastern past on the south side. Nothing that says the larger ones are found in the furthest part of the strewnfield. I've been working on finding things further from the horizontal and vertical plane of the field. I feel in the last few years that we have expanded the 2 mile x 1/2 mile rule by quite a bit. I'm only sharing this info because it really isn't easy to just walk in here and find something substantial. WellI take that back...Larry just did it. Congrats to Larrydon't know how you did it, but you did it. Dave (Sending this as plain text in hopes it will be posted) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
