Re: [meteorite-list] AD: Finally 1st Chladni MARS Case - get thevery first box crafted. Soon a historical collectible!

[mark ford]

I think it's a great idea, this is what is missing in a lot of meteorite 
collections these days - good presentation, a good mount or display can make a 
dull sometimes worthless speck into something to really inspire people!, that 
is a GOOD THING.

Best,

Mark


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann
Sent: 22 February 2007 07:36
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD: Finally 1st Chladni MARS Case - get thevery 
first box crafted. Soon a historical collectible!

Be sure, that there will (and already are) Mars cases with other pictures.
Here 2 more examples:

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/chladnicase-mars1.jpg


http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/chladnicase-mars3.jpg



As always Stefan demonstrated his great abilities as designer.

I remember, for Tucson we tinkered extra-patriotic ones - astronaut on Moon
with huge Stars-n-Stripes-flag, those went best, but are not helpful for
selling to Middle East...

Best!
Martin



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Bill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Februar 2007 04:36
An: Martin Altmann
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: RE: [meteorite-list] AD: Finally 1st Chladni MARS Case - get the
very first box crafted. Soon a historical collectible!

I'm not a fan of marketing gimmicks and this one is particularly offensive.
The dressed up image of the "face" on Mars is nothing short of ignorant
misinformation. Bad idea.

Bill

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Re: [meteorite-list] AD: Finally 1st Chladni MARS Case - get theveryfirst box crafted. Soon a historical collectible!

[Martin Altmann]

Hi Ed,

> I don't think that this Chladni chip will end up on
> some child's bureau, but one never knows...

We will see, if you check the prices of toys from the meanwhile classic
brands, you'll be astonished, how expensive they are meanwhile or what for
disappointing small items you'll get for the price of a Moon case.

Parents will confirm...

Here the market leaders (note than the theme "space" isn't en vogue anymore.
If I remember 20, 30 years back - all those brands had thematic series with
Moon, astronauts etc. - if I would be the NASA marketing boss, I'd know,
where to spend some bucks...):

www.mattel.com  (Barbie, Fisher Price...)

www.lego.com/en-US/default.aspx

www.playmobil.com/index.html

Best!
Martin





-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von E.P.
Grondine
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Februar 2007 04:29
An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] AD: Finally 1st Chladni MARS Case - get
theveryfirst box crafted. Soon a historical collectible!

Hi Martin - 

I am really enjoying the Chladni Chip of the moon
which I bought from you in Tucson. Thank you very
much!

A warning to whoever gets this one - I was showing the
chip at a nearby bar the other evening, and an
acquaintanc opened the "casket" before I could stop
him. Luckily the he didn't loose the chip, but instead
put it back in the box after touching it and looking
at it very closely. Whew!

I don't think that this Chladni chip will end up on
some child's bureau, but one never knows...

good hunting,
Ed

--- Gerald Flaherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Super marketing ploy, Martin, Super salesmanship!
> Jerry Flaherty
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Martin Altmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:21 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Finally 1st Chladni
> MARS Case - get the 
> veryfirst box crafted. Soon a historical
> collectible!
> 
> 
> Good day list!
> 
> Amazing news.
> 
> While Chladni's Moon cases began their triumphant
> success around the globe,
> and the house was brought down, when we introduced
> them in Tucson,
> a lot of collectors and retailers expressed their
> badly needs to get this
> high quality presentation for Martian material.
> 
> Here you are:
> 
> We started to issue now series of Chladni Cases with
> the classical
> shergottite Dag 735.
> 
> This ebay-auction now is somewhat special:
> 
> You'll obtain nothing else than the very first
> example of our Martian Cases
> and all Mars series, which will be produced in
> future.
> It is the Chladni Mars Case N°1 - and you'll receive
> a certificate, that
> this case is the ancestral case of all which will
> have followed, hence a
> collectible for its own.
> 
> Find it here:
> 
> http://kuerzer.de/1stMarscase
> 
> (Item number: 230095652582)
> 
> Shipping is 3$.
> 
> Good luck!
> Martin
> 
> 
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>
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> 
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[meteorite-list] SPACE JUNK

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi,

In addition to the 700-odd pieces of China's
self-shot-down satellite, many of which will work
their way down to meteor like re-entries at various 
future dates, you can add 1100+ more pieces of
defunct spaceware:  http://spaceweather.com/


Australian astronomer Ray Palmer was photographing 
the Southern Cross from his observatory in Western 
Australia on Feb. 19th when a flaming plume cut across 
the Milky Way. "I had no idea what it was," he says. 
"It was moving very slowly and I was able to track 
it for 35 minutes."   
In mid-apparition the object exploded. Gordon 
Garradd of New South Wales photographed an 
expanding cloud filled with specks of debris. Tim 
Thorpe of South Australia saw it, too. "Quite a 
surreal scene," he says. 
What was it? It was a mystery for almost 24 hours 
until satellite expert Daniel Deak matched the trajectory 
of the plume in Palmer's photo with the orbit of a 
derelict rocket booster--"a Briz-M, catalog number 
28944." 
One year ago, the Briz-M sat atop a Russian Proton 
rocket that left Earth on Feb. 28, 2006, carrying an 
Arabsat-4A communications satellite. Shortly after 
launch, the rocket malfunctioned, leaving the satellite 
in the wrong orbit and the Briz-M looping around 
Earth partially-filled with fuel. On Feb. 19, 2007, 
for reasons unknown, the fuel tanks ruptured over 
Australia. 
Jon P. Boers of the USAF Space Surveillance 
System confirms the ID and notes "later, on the 
other side of the world, our radar saw 500+ pieces 
in that orbit." Today the count is up to  fragments. 
"[We're seeing] more fragments as the cloud expands," 
he explains.
One thousand-plus fragments makes this "a major 
breakup event," says Mark Matney of NASA's Orbital 
Debris Office at the Johnson Space Center. "There is 
no immediate threat to the space station, but we're 
analyzing the orbits to assess any long-term hazard." 
"Unlike recent high profile breakups, Briz-M is in 
an orbit that is difficult for most radars to see," adds 
Boers. "The generation of element sets on all the pieces 
will take weeks to accomplish."


Maybe the Russian junker ran into some piece of the 
Chinese junker?

Depending on the orbit, some of this stuff will stay up
for generations and some will come down (to make holes 
in New Hampshire ponds?) Since the Briz-M seems to
have exploded in all directions, we're likely to get some
pieces down before too long.

There's a very colorful photo of the explosive trail,
visible for 35 minutes, as the Astronomy Picture of the
Day for today (02-22-07):
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html


Sterling K. Webb


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Re: [meteorite-list] AD: Finally 1st Chladni MARS Case - get thevery first box crafted. Soon a historical collectible!

[Martin Altmann]

Hi Mark,

be ensured, that the used samples are more than "specks" or cutting dust.
We offer them in 4 different specimen sizes: XS, S, M, L.
Really almost all enclosed pieces aren't just fragments or crumbs,
but show cut surfaces, hence they are, if you want, true partslices.
And often, if I look at the Moons, one is able to see with unaided eye some
details like e.g. a shock veinlet.
So they aren't just unidentifiable gimmicks.

Additional we offer for those, who felt in love with the presentation, boxed
slices by weight, where the size limit is given by the diameter of the spare
hole in the inlay card.

As you see, it's the democratization of the Moon, as now also the "small"
collector has the possibility to choose a significant sample from a variety
of sizes to that extend, which his budget will allow.

And of course it goes without saying, that for advanced collectors like you
(although several of the veterans felt in love with our cases),
we hold ready partslices smaller and larger than 1 gram up to fullslices
reaching the largest possible diameter of the main mass stone.

So feel free to ask for such a specimen
and, if we will find a similar case in a suitable dimension, we will craft
you a giant Chladni Case with a nice fullslice!

Martin

PS: I haven't sold in ebay for years - I have no idea, why our Chladni case
does not appear among the newly listed auctions in the meteorite category,
why no result is found, if searched after any word from the title!

But if I search for a word from the title and mark additionally "search
"title & description" - than it appears.
Also if I enter the item number.
But not, if I search for the seller - pardelmops - then no items for sale
are shown.

HELP!   

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: mark ford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Februar 2007 09:52
An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: RE: [meteorite-list] AD: Finally 1st Chladni MARS Case - get
thevery first box crafted. Soon a historical collectible!


I think it's a great idea, this is what is missing in a lot of meteorite
collections these days - good presentation, a good mount or display can make
a dull sometimes worthless speck into something to really inspire people!,
that is a GOOD THING.

Best,

Mark



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Re: [meteorite-list] Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day - February 22, 2007

[Pete Pete]

Very cool!
Is this a double impact? It looks like another rim within the larger crater.

Cheers,
Pete




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day - February 22, 
2007
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:14:12 EST

http://www.spacerocksinc.com/February_22.html

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Re: [meteorite-list] AD: Finally 1st Chladni MARS Case - getthevery first box crafted. Soon a historical collectible!

[mark ford]

Hi Martin,

>be ensured, that the used samples are more than "specks" or cutting dust.
>We offer them in 4 different specimen sizes: XS, S, M, L.

Absolutley Yes! -  just to clarify I wasn't meaning your stuff 'was worthless', 
of course it is of the very best quality!. But what I mean by that is a good 
display/case (like yours) Can make a small micro into something even bigger & 
better, for that they are a really good idea! I want one!!

Btw I too had problems with searching on ebay, 'the search for other items' 
doesn't seem to work properly,so I guess ebay is having server problems at the 
moment!


Best
Mark

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann
Sent: 22 February 2007 10:31
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD: Finally 1st Chladni MARS Case - getthevery 
first box crafted. Soon a historical collectible!

Hi Mark,

be ensured, that the used samples are more than "specks" or cutting dust.
We offer them in 4 different specimen sizes: XS, S, M, L.
Really almost all enclosed pieces aren't just fragments or crumbs,
but show cut surfaces, hence they are, if you want, true partslices.
And often, if I look at the Moons, one is able to see with unaided eye some
details like e.g. a shock veinlet.
So they aren't just unidentifiable gimmicks.

Additional we offer for those, who felt in love with the presentation, boxed
slices by weight, where the size limit is given by the diameter of the spare
hole in the inlay card.

As you see, it's the democratization of the Moon, as now also the "small"
collector has the possibility to choose a significant sample from a variety
of sizes to that extend, which his budget will allow.

And of course it goes without saying, that for advanced collectors like you
(although several of the veterans felt in love with our cases),
we hold ready partslices smaller and larger than 1 gram up to fullslices
reaching the largest possible diameter of the main mass stone.

So feel free to ask for such a specimen
and, if we will find a similar case in a suitable dimension, we will craft
you a giant Chladni Case with a nice fullslice!

Martin

PS: I haven't sold in ebay for years - I have no idea, why our Chladni case
does not appear among the newly listed auctions in the meteorite category,
why no result is found, if searched after any word from the title!

But if I search for a word from the title and mark additionally "search
"title & description" - than it appears.
Also if I enter the item number.
But not, if I search for the seller - pardelmops - then no items for sale
are shown.

HELP!   

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: mark ford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Februar 2007 09:52
An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: RE: [meteorite-list] AD: Finally 1st Chladni MARS Case - get
thevery first box crafted. Soon a historical collectible!


I think it's a great idea, this is what is missing in a lot of meteorite
collections these days - good presentation, a good mount or display can make
a dull sometimes worthless speck into something to really inspire people!,
that is a GOOD THING.

Best,

Mark



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Re: [meteorite-list] Blaine Reed Tucson Notes & AD

[AL Mitterling]

Greetings Tucson attendees,

Here is my two grams worth on the auctions, dealer rooms, participation 
and parties. First I know that the dealer rooms were the first 
participants at the show many years back. Robert Haag probably was the 
first real dealer to set up and offer meteorites at the show. Other 
dealers soon followed as they offered a much needed service. Back then 
few people knew what a meteorite was and didn't think you would ever be 
able to own one or offer them for re-sale. Dealers are paying about two 
thousand or more to be a part of the show (which is suppose to be a 
wholesale show) and to rent the rooms from the show organizers. Travel 
there and setting up and time are other factors and costs. Obviously 
this is a sizable investment for them and they need a fair return.

Several years back someone decided to have an auction, not sure who but 
I would think it was the upscale auction from a New York dealer or 
possibly Michael Blood. As Blaine said those tended to compliment the 
dealers and no real problems. As the auctions caught on, a number of 
people would reserve specimens in some rooms and then go to the auctions 
in order to bid on items. Apparently after bidding on a number of things 
at auction, the same people who reserved specimens in dealer rooms would 
go back toward the end of the show and "change their minds" on the items 
they had taken off the shelves. Worse yet some didn't bother to return 
and let the dealer know they no longer wanted their reserved items. This 
results in the dealers selling less and costing them.

As the auctions gained favor and higher attendance a lower volume of 
sales were realized by room dealers. Of course it is more complicated 
than just this. There are now more dealers than ever, it is more 
difficult for foreign collectors to travel due to past events, other 
dealers have offered their own auctions to counter the other auctions 
and get people back in their rooms to look around. The show is not 
nearly as large as it once was due to the internet and rock and gem 
attendees having a lower count these days. I am sure ebay plays a factor 
to some degree. There are also a number of party events that compete for 
attendees time.

One trend that bothers me is the number of deals I see being made by 
"dealers" who don't have rooms but make the rounds to other dealer 
rooms. In some cases deals are being made in the paying dealer's room 
and has nothing to do with his inventory. To me this is very rude and if 
participants can't go outside or meet in a motel room to conduct their 
business they should at least offer the room dealer a percentage of the 
profit they are making in the offended dealers room. Courtesy seems to 
have vanished these days.

There are few dealers that have the knowledge and understanding of 
meteorites these days like Blaine Reed does. I think he is a vital part 
of the show and it will be a sad day if he can no longer afford to 
attend these shows. I recommend that if you attend the show, at least 
take a little time out to visit some of the old timers like Blaine. I 
think you will be pleased by his display, his helpful manor, his 
knowledge of the subject and best his reasonable prices. There may be a 
day when all this dries up and the pilgrimage to Tucson will no longer 
be and a subject that we only talk about. As dealers close their doors 
there will be less an less reason to attend the show.

With all this said I hope no one takes offense as it is not directed at 
any particular party. Rather it is an effort to get some of the other 
attendee's thoughts on the subject and stimulate discussion. While I am 
guilty of attending some of the auctions and understand the allure of 
going to them I still make the rounds to the rooms (as many as I can in 
the time I have) and spend a fair amount with them as well. Part of 
Tucson is the socializing, seeing what all is available from years past, 
and getting an idea of what items may become available in the near 
future. I hope to see others comment and share their thoughts on all of 
this.

BTW, I do like the idea of scheduling a hotel so we can deal the 
organizers out but don't know the legalities of doing this. I might be 
willing to set up my collection if we ever went this way. Perhaps a show 
could be scheduled in some other town, although I would miss the 
restaurants in Tucson. Best!

--AL Mitterling
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Re: [meteorite-list] Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day - February 22, 2007

[Jeff Kuyken]

Hi Pete,

It's a very interesting piece with quite a unique 'crater'. It appears that
it may have been a double impact or possibly the result of a jagged shrapnel
fragment impacting the individual. Anyone on the list a ballistic expert?
;-)

http://www.meteorites.com.au/features/funkysa.html

Cheers,

Jeff Kuyken
Meteorites Australia
www.meteorites.com.au




- Original Message -
From: Pete Pete
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day - February
22,2007


Very cool!
Is this a double impact? It looks like another rim within the larger crater.

Cheers,
Pete




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day - February 22,
2007
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:14:12 EST

http://www.spacerocksinc.com/February_22.html

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Re: [meteorite-list] Blaine Reed Tucson Notes & AD

[jbaxter112]

Hello Al et al.,

I would like to second Al's suggestion that any Tucson attendee is really
missing out if they don't spend some time at Blaine's room. He always has
interesting material and is just a great source of meteorite information
and lore. To me he is an essential part of the Tucson experience.

Regards,
Jim Baxter

> Greetings Tucson attendees,
>
> Here is my two grams worth on the auctions, dealer rooms, participation
> and parties. First I know that the dealer rooms were the first
> participants at the show many years back. Robert Haag probably was the
> first real dealer to set up and offer meteorites at the show. Other
> dealers soon followed as they offered a much needed service. Back then
> few people knew what a meteorite was and didn't think you would ever be
> able to own one or offer them for re-sale. Dealers are paying about two
> thousand or more to be a part of the show (which is suppose to be a
> wholesale show) and to rent the rooms from the show organizers. Travel
> there and setting up and time are other factors and costs. Obviously
> this is a sizable investment for them and they need a fair return.
>
> Several years back someone decided to have an auction, not sure who but
> I would think it was the upscale auction from a New York dealer or
> possibly Michael Blood. As Blaine said those tended to compliment the
> dealers and no real problems. As the auctions caught on, a number of
> people would reserve specimens in some rooms and then go to the auctions
>  in order to bid on items. Apparently after bidding on a number of
> things  at auction, the same people who reserved specimens in dealer
> rooms would  go back toward the end of the show and "change their minds"
> on the items  they had taken off the shelves. Worse yet some didn't
> bother to return  and let the dealer know they no longer wanted their
> reserved items. This  results in the dealers selling less and costing
> them.
>
> As the auctions gained favor and higher attendance a lower volume of
> sales were realized by room dealers. Of course it is more complicated
> than just this. There are now more dealers than ever, it is more
> difficult for foreign collectors to travel due to past events, other
> dealers have offered their own auctions to counter the other auctions
> and get people back in their rooms to look around. The show is not
> nearly as large as it once was due to the internet and rock and gem
> attendees having a lower count these days. I am sure ebay plays a factor
>  to some degree. There are also a number of party events that compete
> for  attendees time.
>
> One trend that bothers me is the number of deals I see being made by
> "dealers" who don't have rooms but make the rounds to other dealer
> rooms. In some cases deals are being made in the paying dealer's room
> and has nothing to do with his inventory. To me this is very rude and if
>  participants can't go outside or meet in a motel room to conduct their
> business they should at least offer the room dealer a percentage of the
> profit they are making in the offended dealers room. Courtesy seems to
> have vanished these days.
>
> There are few dealers that have the knowledge and understanding of
> meteorites these days like Blaine Reed does. I think he is a vital part
> of the show and it will be a sad day if he can no longer afford to
> attend these shows. I recommend that if you attend the show, at least
> take a little time out to visit some of the old timers like Blaine. I
> think you will be pleased by his display, his helpful manor, his
> knowledge of the subject and best his reasonable prices. There may be a
> day when all this dries up and the pilgrimage to Tucson will no longer
> be and a subject that we only talk about. As dealers close their doors
> there will be less an less reason to attend the show.
>
> With all this said I hope no one takes offense as it is not directed at
> any particular party. Rather it is an effort to get some of the other
> attendee's thoughts on the subject and stimulate discussion. While I am
> guilty of attending some of the auctions and understand the allure of
> going to them I still make the rounds to the rooms (as many as I can in
> the time I have) and spend a fair amount with them as well. Part of
> Tucson is the socializing, seeing what all is available from years past,
>  and getting an idea of what items may become available in the near
> future. I hope to see others comment and share their thoughts on all of
> this.
>
> BTW, I do like the idea of scheduling a hotel so we can deal the
> organizers out but don't know the legalities of doing this. I might be
> willing to set up my collection if we ever went this way. Perhaps a show
>  could be scheduled in some other town, although I would miss the
> restaurants in Tucson. Best!
>
> --AL Mitterling
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Re: [meteorite-list] Blaine Reed Tucson Notes & AD

[tracy latimer]

The one and only year I have been able to attend the Tucson show so far, I 
was fortuante enough to make Blaine's room one of my first stops, and I 
still have (and will treasure!) the small slice of Imilac I got from him.  
The auctions are nice, and I met twice as many people there as I did by just 
cruising around, but usually auction prices seem to drift out of my reach.  
Auctions are for showpieces and rarities, the dinner-plate size slice of 
Brahin that will become the focus of a collection, and as such, it becomes a 
choice between several smaller pieces or one show-stopping number from an 
auction.

The biggest hurdle I found to my buying/collecting/visiting was trying to 
track down where all the meteorite dealers were located.  Once I had done 
that, then I had to drive all over creation to visit individual seller's 
rooms scattered all over Tucson.  Many meteorite people come to Tucson 
exclusively to talk story with all the other meteorite collectors and 
dealers.  Maybe it would be beneficial for as many sellers as possible to 
congregate in one or two venues.  I know I would much rather spend time 
looking at Lunars and other rare achondrites than driving, parking, paying 
for parking... you get the idea.  Also, if most of the dealers are at one or 
two hotels, going to the management of that hotel and saying "We would like 
to rent out your restaurant for a party on this evening, and 20% of the 
people who are staying here will attend" gives you a lot more buying power 
suddenly.

JMHO and 2 cents.
Tracy Latimer

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Re: [meteorite-list] [SPAM] Re: Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find

[Moni Waiblinger]

Hi All,

so I am wondering, what if Larry's meteorite is one of the "Venus Stones"?
Guess then all the little fragments he is selling off, will have a different 
name?

Not Holbrook meteorite?
Can some one clarify this for me?
Is Bob Haag's meteorite classified as such, Venus Stone?

With best regards,
Moni



From: DNAndrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [SPAM] Re:  Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:16:25 -0700


>They say Holbrook is the product of two breakups, one
>after the other, when the largest fragment then re-fragmented
>again.
>
>
Hi Sterling,
Yes, according to the original Holbrook Argus newspaper articles right
after the fall, there were two detonations.  My theory is that the first
landed at the "Holbrook" strewnfield.  The second?  Have you seen/heard
of Bob Haag's "Venus Stone"?  I know exactly where and how it was found
and have been waiting permission to search the private property.  Even
Bob himself doesn't know how or exactly where it was found (well he
might now, because I told him the story a while back).  The owners of
the land and finders of the stone didn't know what they had and just
gave it to a passer-by who in turn traded it for enough cash to buy
himself a new trailer house.

Just a theory though.
Dave

>
>
>
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[meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag's Venus Stone

[bernd . pauli]

Hello Moni and List,

Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Dave Andrews wrote to the List:

Hi List, The Adamana or "Venus Stone" was found in the Adamana landfill.
Near the Petrified Forest/Painted Desert boundary. (about 15 miles NE of
Holbrook on I-40). Evidently someone just didn't want it anymore or didn't
know what they had. It was found by a rancher target practicing with his
0.22 rifle. With the selling of the piece to Bob, I heard he purchased a
new mobile home to live in. I have one of the casts, and it looks very real.
It looks so real, that I think I'll put it up on eBay with a $15,000 reserve.
(just kidding :o) Regards, Dave


I got one of these casts too many years ago and they do look real!

Best wishes,

Bernd

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Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag's Venus Stone

[Alexander Seidel]

I am also the lucky owner of one of those Venus stone casts from Bob Haag. 
Beautiful! And you know why he called this one the "Venus stone"..?? :-)

This is one very special nice example of a flight-oriented meteorite, where the 
rule applies: NEVER EVER cut specimen like these just for the sake of getting 
some classification data! Why? Because a cut would destroy the "character" of 
the piece!

And so we don´t know what´s inside this beautiful meteorite, we can only make 
some assumptions from non-destructive observation.

Alex
Berlin/Germany

  
 Original-Nachricht 
Datum: 22 Feb 2007 18:11:00 UT
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
CC: 
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Larry\'s Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag\'s 
Venus Stone

> Hello Moni and List,
> 
> Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Dave Andrews wrote to the List:
> 
> Hi List, The Adamana or "Venus Stone" was found in the Adamana landfill.
> Near the Petrified Forest/Painted Desert boundary. (about 15 miles NE of
> Holbrook on I-40). Evidently someone just didn't want it anymore or didn't
> know what they had. It was found by a rancher target practicing with his
> 0.22 rifle. With the selling of the piece to Bob, I heard he purchased a
> new mobile home to live in. I have one of the casts, and it looks very
> real.
> It looks so real, that I think I'll put it up on eBay with a $15,000
> reserve.
> (just kidding :o) Regards, Dave
> 
> 
> I got one of these casts too many years ago and they do look real!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Bernd
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] [SPAM] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag's Venus Stone

[DNAndrews]

Hi Bernd and Moni,
Wow!  Bernd must save everything in his database (which is worth a 
fortune in itself).  Since 1999, I found out that this story is not 
entirely true.  It wasn't found in a landfill as Bob H. mentioned in his 
catalogue.  Instead, it was found in a horse corral when the owners of 
the ranch were cleaning it out.  (So I'm told).  They set it on a fence 
post and a passer-by, (whom will remain nameless for now),  asked if he 
could have it.  The owners just gave it to him.  He then sold it Haag 
for the sum stated below.  Those owners of the ranch (whose wife works 
with my girlfriend) sold it a while ago, but they may be foreclosing on 
it and get the land back.  So this is the scenario I'm hoping for. 

Bob lists his Adamana or "Venus Stone" as an L6...same as Holbrook.  
Coincidence?  Maybemaybe not.  Plotting it on the map looks quite 
possible to me.

Best,
Dave

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Hello Moni and List,
>
>Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Dave Andrews wrote to the List:
>
>Hi List, The Adamana or "Venus Stone" was found in the Adamana landfill.
>Near the Petrified Forest/Painted Desert boundary. (about 15 miles NE of
>Holbrook on I-40). Evidently someone just didn't want it anymore or didn't
>know what they had. It was found by a rancher target practicing with his
>0.22 rifle. With the selling of the piece to Bob, I heard he purchased a
>new mobile home to live in. I have one of the casts, and it looks very real.
>It looks so real, that I think I'll put it up on eBay with a $15,000 reserve.
>(just kidding :o) Regards, Dave
>
>
>I got one of these casts too many years ago and they do look real!
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Bernd
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and BobHaag's Venus Stone

[R. N. Hartman]

Alex wrote <>

Then cut the cast instead.  :=)

(He!He!)

Ron

- Original Message - 
From: "Alexander Seidel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and BobHaag's
Venus Stone


I am also the lucky owner of one of those Venus stone casts from Bob Haag.
Beautiful! And you know why he called this one the "Venus stone"..?? :-)

This is one very special nice example of a flight-oriented meteorite, where
the rule applies: NEVER EVER cut specimen like these just for the sake of
getting some classification data! Why? Because a cut would destroy the
"character" of the piece!

And so we don´t know what´s inside this beautiful meteorite, we can only
make some assumptions from non-destructive observation.

Alex
Berlin/Germany


 Original-Nachricht 
Datum: 22 Feb 2007 18:11:00 UT
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
CC:
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Larry\'s Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag\'s
Venus Stone

> Hello Moni and List,
>
> Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Dave Andrews wrote to the List:
>
> Hi List, The Adamana or "Venus Stone" was found in the Adamana landfill.
> Near the Petrified Forest/Painted Desert boundary. (about 15 miles NE of
> Holbrook on I-40). Evidently someone just didn't want it anymore or didn't
> know what they had. It was found by a rancher target practicing with his
> 0.22 rifle. With the selling of the piece to Bob, I heard he purchased a
> new mobile home to live in. I have one of the casts, and it looks very
> real.
> It looks so real, that I think I'll put it up on eBay with a $15,000
> reserve.
> (just kidding :o) Regards, Dave
>
>
> I got one of these casts too many years ago and they do look real!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] [SPAM] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag's Venus Stone

[Alexander Seidel]

Now this is what John Blennert wrote in another forum in July 2005, I just 
found this via google:

"Although Bob Haag won't cut a large enough piece off the Adamana mass to 
properly be tested it is classed as an L5 by guess I think . The piece 
originated by a rancher who dug up some dirt at the Goodman exit area to spead 
in his barn or corrals. His ranch is in Adamana and the piece was discovered 
while spreading the dirt. It sat on a fence pole as a curiosity for quite some 
time before Bob bought it . The Adamana could be the nose cone to the Holbrook 
L6 strewnfield since that was the direction of the fall. Bob bieng very clever 
knows the piece has more value as an individual then as an oriented piece of a 
known fall !! I think !! Happy Huntin John B."

Best wishes,
Alex
Berlin/Germany


 Original-Nachricht 
Datum: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:48:22 -0700
Von: DNAndrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] [SPAM] Larry\'s Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob  
Haag\'s Venus Stone

> Hi Bernd and Moni,
> Wow!  Bernd must save everything in his database (which is worth a 
> fortune in itself).  Since 1999, I found out that this story is not 
> entirely true.  It wasn't found in a landfill as Bob H. mentioned in his 
> catalogue.  Instead, it was found in a horse corral when the owners of 
> the ranch were cleaning it out.  (So I'm told).  They set it on a fence 
> post and a passer-by, (whom will remain nameless for now),  asked if he 
> could have it.  The owners just gave it to him.  He then sold it Haag 
> for the sum stated below.  Those owners of the ranch (whose wife works 
> with my girlfriend) sold it a while ago, but they may be foreclosing on 
> it and get the land back.  So this is the scenario I'm hoping for. 
> 
> Bob lists his Adamana or "Venus Stone" as an L6...same as Holbrook.  
> Coincidence?  Maybemaybe not.  Plotting it on the map looks quite 
> possible to me.
> 
> Best,
> Dave
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >Hello Moni and List,
> >
> >Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Dave Andrews wrote to the List:
> >
> >Hi List, The Adamana or "Venus Stone" was found in the Adamana landfill.
> >Near the Petrified Forest/Painted Desert boundary. (about 15 miles NE of
> >Holbrook on I-40). Evidently someone just didn't want it anymore or
> didn't
> >know what they had. It was found by a rancher target practicing with his
> >0.22 rifle. With the selling of the piece to Bob, I heard he purchased a
> >new mobile home to live in. I have one of the casts, and it looks very
> real.
> >It looks so real, that I think I'll put it up on eBay with a $15,000
> reserve.
> >(just kidding :o) Regards, Dave
> >
> >
> >I got one of these casts too many years ago and they do look real!
> >
> >Best wishes,
> >
> >Bernd
> >
> >__
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> >Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> >  
> >
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Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag's Venus Stone

[DNAndrews]

HeheheJohnny B should know better than to listen to me.   ;-)   That 
story was conveyed to me by a person who lived in Adamana a few years 
ago.  He has since passed away.  Also, it's the "Goodwater" area instead 
of Goodman.  Anyway, this gentleman told me that they used some of the 
"old" railroad base as fill for their corral.  I really don't think this 
is the case now as that would be all cinders and the owners tell me 
differently.

Bob Haag told me that the Adamana stone is an L6 and much older than the 
Holbrook fall.  But if it was in a horse corral with horses, seems as if 
that would age a meteorite quite differently?
Still all just speculation for now.
Dave (who removed the SPAM from the subject line  ;-)

Alexander Seidel wrote:

>Now this is what John Blennert wrote in another forum in July 2005, I just 
>found this via google:
>
>"Although Bob Haag won't cut a large enough piece off the Adamana mass to 
>properly be tested it is classed as an L5 by guess I think . The piece 
>originated by a rancher who dug up some dirt at the Goodman exit area to spead 
>in his barn or corrals. His ranch is in Adamana and the piece was discovered 
>while spreading the dirt. It sat on a fence pole as a curiosity for quite some 
>time before Bob bought it . The Adamana could be the nose cone to the Holbrook 
>L6 strewnfield since that was the direction of the fall. Bob bieng very clever 
>knows the piece has more value as an individual then as an oriented piece of a 
>known fall !! I think !! Happy Huntin John B."
>
>Best wishes,
>Alex
>Berlin/Germany
>
>
>  
>
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag's Venus Stone

[Moni Waiblinger]

Hi All again,

I am so under the weather with another relapse of a very bad cold!
Anyway, thank you for all your input.
I still wonder if Larry's might be related to Bob Haag's meteorite, Adamana.

http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4794

Didn't he mention that it looks very different from an ordinary Holbrook 
meteorites with lots of chondrules and being exposed after many years.

Is this what the Adamana looks like?
Lots of chondrules?
But guess even if Larry has his classified, we will never know if it is 
paired with Bob's, right! ;-)


Back to the couch,
Moni




From: DNAndrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob 
Haag's Venus Stone

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:47:33 -0700

HeheheJohnny B should know better than to listen to me.   ;-)   That
story was conveyed to me by a person who lived in Adamana a few years
ago.  He has since passed away.  Also, it's the "Goodwater" area instead
of Goodman.  Anyway, this gentleman told me that they used some of the
"old" railroad base as fill for their corral.  I really don't think this
is the case now as that would be all cinders and the owners tell me
differently.

Bob Haag told me that the Adamana stone is an L6 and much older than the
Holbrook fall.  But if it was in a horse corral with horses, seems as if
that would age a meteorite quite differently?
Still all just speculation for now.
Dave (who removed the SPAM from the subject line  ;-)



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Re: [meteorite-list] [SPAM] Re: Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag's Venus Stone

[DNAndrews]

Hi Moni,
No, it isn't related to Bob Haag's piece other than it could "possibly" 
be from the same fall.  Larry's find was a whole individual (some 
fragmentation) and it looked exactly like a Holbrook meteorite to 
me...only BIG!  It has the same small, dark chondrules in a light matrix 
as a typical Holbrook.  The crust looked the same as a typical Holbrook 
tooonly BIG!  ;-)

Best,
Dave

Moni Waiblinger wrote:

> Hi All again,
>
> I am so under the weather with another relapse of a very bad cold!
> Anyway, thank you for all your input.
> I still wonder if Larry's might be related to Bob Haag's meteorite, 
> Adamana.
>
> http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4794
>
> Didn't he mention that it looks very different from an ordinary 
> Holbrook meteorites with lots of chondrules and being exposed after 
> many years.
> Is this what the Adamana looks like?
> Lots of chondrules?
> But guess even if Larry has his classified, we will never know if it 
> is paired with Bob's, right! ;-)
>
> Back to the couch,
> Moni
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] [SPAM] Re: Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag's Venus Stone

[Ruben Garcia]

Hi all,
I only saw tiny fragments of Larrys find (pieces my
friend Earl dug out of the very same hole) but they
were typical Holbrook. Also it was right in the middle
of the Holbrook Strewn Field and nowhere near the
Adamana find.

Ruben

Ruben Garcia
Phoenix, Arizona
http://www.mr-meteorite.com


 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day - February 22, 2007

[Gerald Flaherty]

Also known a "fly now, duck later"
Jerry Flaherty
- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Kuyken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Pete Pete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 

Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day - February 
22,2007


> Hi Pete,
>
> It's a very interesting piece with quite a unique 'crater'. It appears 
> that
> it may have been a double impact or possibly the result of a jagged 
> shrapnel
> fragment impacting the individual. Anyone on the list a ballistic expert?
> ;-)
>
> http://www.meteorites.com.au/features/funkysa.html
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff Kuyken
> Meteorites Australia
> www.meteorites.com.au
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Pete Pete
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day - February
> 22,2007
>
>
> Very cool!
> Is this a double impact? It looks like another rim within the larger 
> crater.
>
> Cheers,
> Pete
>
>
>
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote-Alin Picture of the Day - February 22,
> 2007
> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:14:12 EST
>
> http://www.spacerocksinc.com/February_22.html
>
> ** AOL now offers free
> email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at
> http://www.aol.com.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Nitol

[Gerald Flaherty]

or the ol is the read end of alcohol maybe because it's at the end of Nitol
Jerry Flaherty
  - Original Message - 
  From: D 
  To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 10:51 PM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Nitol


  Been reading some posts regarding etching I believe the term from the 
science of metallography is Nital...NOT Nitol. The "al" is the first part of 
"alcohol", just as the "Nit" is the first part of "Nitric". This incorrect 
terminology has been perpetuated for some time now.

  F.



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Re: [meteorite-list] the lunar meeorite from morocco

[Armando Afonso]

Hehe...
Any doubts about meteorite classification can be easily solved contacting 
Michael Farmer...
He knows nothing about petrography, mineralogy, never heard about isotopes, 
but can identify anything by sight!
The only side effect is the resulting thousands of insults and fisical 
menaces, but it is so funny...
AA

- Original Message - 
From: "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] the lunar meeorite from morocco


and if this is a lunar meteorite I am Mother Teresa of
Calcutta

Matteo

--- adrar fossile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto:

> there all members of list .
>
>   i'm mohamed ait ouzrou , from morocco i think that
> majorite of list know me ,
>   so in the link below are some wonder  pieces if
> some one like them can contact me ,
>   in the adress email  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
http://www.4shared.com/file/10828031/925d185c/lunar_meteorites_for_sale.html
>
>   good health to all list ,
>   Mohamed ait ouzrou
>
>
> -
>  Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses
> à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances,
> des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur
> Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.>
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Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it
Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/






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[meteorite-list] Update; Muonionalusta homepage

[Thomas Österberg]

Dear members of the Meteorite-list,

Would like to inform you about a recent update of our web-site: 
www.muonionalustameteorites.com

We have added some newly taken pictures from recent finds (summer 2006), 
including two large individuals. Inquiries are welcome! 

Have fun!

Thomas Osterberg, Daniel Svensson


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Re: [meteorite-list] Old Woman Meteorite

[greg stanley]

Hi All:
   
  A friend of mine who lives near Washington DC actualy cut the Old Woman 
meteorite.  I remember it very well; it was the late 70's and when we got 
together, he would tell me how they cut it (with a wire) and it took months.  I 
also remember him telling me that Diamonds where found in meteorites - this 
really surprized me at the time.
   
  His name is Tim Rose and he is pictured standing next to a recently (cut) Old 
Woman meteorite in the book "Rocks from Outer Space."  It was pretty wild to 
see a friend pictured in a book.
   
  I have not talked to him in many years; I've lost touch through the years.  
We would go rock and mineral hunting as well as spelunking. 
   
  Last May I began hunting meteorites in California and have done a lot of 
reading - I find the entire subject very interesting.
   
  I need to look my friend up and see what he remembers regarding Old Woman.
   
  -Greg Stanley 
   
   
   
   
   
   finders were David Friburg, Mike Jendruczak and Hack Harwood.

http://www.meteoritearticles.com/znp06191977.html

"And there was no reward for them??"

The Smithsonian did offer them a reward, but it was far less then the $1 
million they wanted. The finders took the position it was a million or 
nothingand got nothing.

I have at least 100 Old Woman NPA's in my archive, of which only a few are 
listed here:

http://www.meteoritearticles.com/znpoldwoman.html

Clear Skies,
Mark


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Re: [meteorite-list] the lunar meeorite from morocco

[Armando Afonso]

Hehe...
Any doubts about meteorite classification can be easily solved contacting 
Michael Farmer...
He knows nothing about petrography, mineralogy, never heard about isotopes, 
but can identify anything by sight!
The only side effect is the resulting thousands of insults and fisical 
menaces, but it is so funny...
AA
- Original Message - 
From: "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] the lunar meeorite from morocco


and if this is a lunar meteorite I am Mother Teresa of
Calcutta

Matteo

--- adrar fossile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto:

> there all members of list .
>
>   i'm mohamed ait ouzrou , from morocco i think that
> majorite of list know me ,
>   so in the link below are some wonder  pieces if
> some one like them can contact me ,
>   in the adress email  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
http://www.4shared.com/file/10828031/925d185c/lunar_meteorites_for_sale.html
>
>   good health to all list ,
>   Mohamed ait ouzrou
>
>
> -
>  Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses
> à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances,
> des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur
> Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.>
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>
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>


M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it
Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/






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[meteorite-list] Peruvian fall Feb 3, 2004 - crater pictures

[Randall Gregory]

List,
   
  Anyone interested in pictures of the crater can e-mail me.
   
   
  Randall

 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Nitol

[Frank Prochaska]

Actually, the "ol" is from the last two letters of alcohol, not the first, and 
I believe comes from the common short hand abbreviation used for alcohol in 
various scientific and medical disciplines.  I've never seen "nital" used, in 
college or since, though as long as everyone knows what we're talking about, I 
doubt it matters.
   
   
   
  Frank Prochaska
   
   
   
   

 
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[meteorite-list] Peruvian meteorite crater - friendly warning to hunters that may be considering...

[Randall Gregory]

Information is expected to be released in April on the Earth Impact Database 
that will give the exact coordinates to the Peruvian meteorite crater. I have 
been warned that meteorite hunters will want to turn this site upside down.  If 
anyone wishes to hunt at this site please contact me and we can discuss.
   
  Should anyone think about hunting without contacting me. I want you to 
understand that
  I have paperwork filing with the Peruvian government giving me mining 
concession rights to the crater and 100 sq. hectares surrounding the crater. It 
is a routine matter and approval is expected soon. Even with paperwork pending 
I still have legal rights here in Peru. I am serious about wanting to keep this 
crater in pristine condition until scientists have had the opportunity to study 
it in detail.
   
  Peruvian law has very strict laws concerning trespassing, especially when it 
concerns mines. I will not hesitate to prosecute and trust me, American jails 
would be considered luxury resorts compared to South American jails. Your 
sustenance will consist of beans, potatoes, and rice and maybe a piece of 
chicken if you're lucky. You might get 1 piece of fruit per week. You will have 
to drink the local water. Diarrhea will be your constant companion. I guarantee 
you will have non-stop nightmares all night every night. I know the system and 
I will make every attempt to lengthen your stay. There are ways to block your 
attempts to contact the American embassy.
   
  There is currently a standing reward for reporting to the police, any 
meteorite hunter that may wander into this area. The reward is equivalent to  6 
months income for most of the poor people of this area. They are now watchful 
and vigilant.  The towns of Aplao and Castillo are small. Everybody knows 
everybody and I have many friends in each. All relevant police agencies have 
been notified by my Peruvian attorney.
   
  My advice, don't even think about it. Alternatively, if you want to hunt at 
the crater, I am open to discussion, but only after scientific studies have 
been completed.
   
  Randall

 
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[meteorite-list] Peruvian fall Feb 3, 2004 - crater pictures

[Randall Gregory]

List,
   
  Anyone interested in pictures of the crater can e-mail me.
   
   
  Randall

  
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Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites for sale (azrou)

[M come Meteorite Meteorites]

no we are not interested

Matteo

--- adrar fossile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto:

> dear list's members , 
>   i have some meteorites for sale if some on is i
> nterested can contact me soon , 
>   these are my information , ;
>
>   my full name is AIT OUZROU MOHAMED 
>   MY EAMILS ARE :
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]AND 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  AND
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   AND
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
>   THESE ARE MY EMAILS .
>   AND THE NAME OF MY SHOP LA ROSE DE SABLE .
>   AND MY FONE NUMBER IS +21211417997 
> 
>   
> -
>  Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses
> à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances,
> des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur
> Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.>
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>
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> 


M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it 
Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/






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[meteorite-list] Peruvian meteorite crater - friendly warning to hunters that may be considering...

[Randall Gregory]

Information is expected to be released in April on the Earth Impact Database 
that will give the exact coordinates to the Peruvian meteorite crater. I have 
been warned that meteorite hunters will want to turn this site upside down.  If 
anyone wishes to hunt at this site please contact me and we can discuss.
   
  Should anyone think about hunting without contacting me. I want you to 
understand that
  I have paperwork filing with the Peruvian government giving me mining 
concession rights to the crater and 100 sq. hectares surrounding the crater. It 
is a routine matter and approval is expected soon. Even with paperwork pending 
I still have legal rights here in Peru. I am serious about wanting to keep this 
crater in pristine condition until scientists have had the opportunity to study 
it in detail.
   
  Peruvian law has very strict laws concerning trespassing, especially when it 
concerns mines. I will not hesitate to prosecute and trust me, American jails 
would be considered luxury resorts compared to South American jails. Your 
sustenance will consist of beans, potatoes, and rice and maybe a piece of 
chicken if you're lucky. You might get 1 piece of fruit per week. You will have 
to drink the local water. Diarrhea will be your constant companion. I guarantee 
you will have non-stop nightmares all night every night. I know the system and 
I will make every attempt to lengthen your stay. There are ways to block your 
attempts to contact the American embassy.
   
  There is currently a standing reward for reporting to the police, any 
meteorite hunter that may wander into this area. The reward is equivalent to  6 
months income for most of the poor people of this area. They are now watchful 
and vigilant.  The towns of Aplao and Castillo are small. Everybody knows 
everybody and I have many friends in each. All relevant police agencies have 
been notified by my Peruvian attorney.
   
  My advice, don't even think about it. Alternatively, if you want to hunt at 
the crater, I am open to discussion, but only after scientific studies have 
been completed.
   
  Randall

 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and BobHaag's Venus Stone

[Mike Jensen]

Hi
Here is an image of the cast of the "Venus Stone" from Bob's site.
http://www.meteoriteman.com/graphics/venus.jpg

He sells them for $100 each. My brother and I both picked up one at the
Tucson show this year. If I remember correctly he said those were the last
ones he had for sale. But you might email him to see if he has any more for
sale.
http://www.meteoriteman.com/misc.htm

Mike
--
Mike Jensen
Jensen Meteorites
16730 E Ada PL
Aurora, CO 80017-3137
303-337-4361
IMCA 4264
website: www.jensenmeteorites.com

On 2/22/07, R. N. Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Alex wrote <>

Then cut the cast instead.  :=)

(He!He!)

Ron

- Original Message -
From: "Alexander Seidel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and
BobHaag's
Venus Stone


I am also the lucky owner of one of those Venus stone casts from Bob Haag.
Beautiful! And you know why he called this one the "Venus stone"..?? :-)

This is one very special nice example of a flight-oriented meteorite,
where
the rule applies: NEVER EVER cut specimen like these just for the sake of
getting some classification data! Why? Because a cut would destroy the
"character" of the piece!

And so we don´t know what´s inside this beautiful meteorite, we can only
make some assumptions from non-destructive observation.

Alex
Berlin/Germany


 Original-Nachricht 
Datum: 22 Feb 2007 18:11:00 UT
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
CC:
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Larry\'s Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob
Haag\'s
Venus Stone

> Hello Moni and List,
>
> Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Dave Andrews wrote to the List:
>
> Hi List, The Adamana or "Venus Stone" was found in the Adamana landfill.
> Near the Petrified Forest/Painted Desert boundary. (about 15 miles NE of
> Holbrook on I-40). Evidently someone just didn't want it anymore or
didn't
> know what they had. It was found by a rancher target practicing with his
> 0.22 rifle. With the selling of the piece to Bob, I heard he purchased a
> new mobile home to live in. I have one of the casts, and it looks very
> real.
> It looks so real, that I think I'll put it up on eBay with a $15,000
> reserve.
> (just kidding :o) Regards, Dave
>
>
> I got one of these casts too many years ago and they do look real!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
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[meteorite-list] venus meteorite and holbrook

[justin weippert]

I heard the same story from dave andrew when we were hunting for them in 
holbrook. Is there anyway to tell if the have the same stone chrondrules and 
age? I know the meteorite is 4.5 billion years old but can you determine the 
age of the fall? I think there related in the same fall..justin weippert 
showlow, az

 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Peruvian meteorite crater - friendly warning to hunters that may be considering...

[Gary K. Foote]

A rather dark post Randall.

Gary

On 21 Feb 2007 at 18:44, Randall Gregory wrote:

> 
> Information is expected to be released in April on the Earth Impact 
> Databasethat will 
> give the exact coordinates to the Peruvian meteorite crater. I have been 
> warned that 
> meteorite hunters will want to turn this site upside down. If anyone wishes 
> to hunt at 
> this site please contact me and we can discuss. 
> 
> Should anyone think about hunting without contacting me. I want you to 
> understand that 
> I have paperwork filing with the Peruvian government giving me mining 
> concession rights 
> to the crater and 100 sq. hectares surrounding the crater. It is a routine 
> matter and 
> approval is expected soon. Even with paperwork pending I still have legal 
> rights here in 
> Peru. I am serious about wanting to keep this crater in pristine condition 
> until 
> scientists have had the opportunity to study it in detail. 
> 
> Peruvian law has very strict laws concerning trespassing, especially when it 
> concerns 
> mines. I will not hesitate to prosecute and trust me, American jails would be 
> considered 
> luxury resorts compared to South American jails. Your sustenance will consist 
> of beans, 
> potatoes, and rice and maybe a piece of chicken if you're lucky.You might get 
> 1 piece of 
> fruit per week. You will have to drink the local water. Diarrhea will be your 
> constant 
> companion. I guarantee you will have non-stop nightmares all night every 
> night. I know 
> the system and I will make every attempt to lengthen your stay. There are 
> ways to block 
> your attempts to contact the American embassy. 
> 
> There is currently astanding rewardforreporting to the police, any meteorite 
> hunter 
> that may wander into this area.The reward is equivalent to 6 months income 
> formost of 
> thepoor people of this area. They arenow watchful and vigilant.The towns of 
> Aplao and 
> Castillo are small. Everybody knows everybody and I have many friends in 
> each. All 
> relevant police agencies have been notified by my Peruvian attorney. 
> 
> My advice, don't even think about it. Alternatively, if you want to hunt at 
> the crater, I 
> am open to discussion, but only after scientific studies have been completed. 
> 
> Randall 
> 
> No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
> with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. 


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Re: [meteorite-list] Peruvian meteorite crater - friendly warning to hunters that may be considering...

[Gary K. Foote]

I think so too.  A warning like this is sure to gain friends and influence 
people.  lol

Gary

On 22 Feb 2007 at 18:14, Dave Freeman mjwy wrote:

> 
> Dear Gary;
> I kind of thought that maybe he should live a lonely life as his scare tactic 
> would 
> warrent that all meteorite persons would stay away from such a crabby 
> appleton!
> His crater and the Peruvian government may be his ONLY FRIENDS!
> df
> Gary K. Foote wrote:
> 
> A rather dark post Randall.
> 
> Gary
> 
> On 21 Feb 2007 at 18:44, Randall Gregory wrote:
> 
>   
> 
> 
> Information is expected to be released in April on the Earth Impact 
> Databasethat will 
> give the exact coordinates to the Peruvian meteorite crater. I have been 
> warned that 
> meteorite hunters will want to turn this site upside down. If anyone 
> wishes to hunt at 
> this site please contact me and we can discuss. 
> 
> Should anyone think about hunting without contacting me. I want you to 
> understand that 
> I have paperwork filing with the Peruvian government giving me mining 
> concession rights 
> to the crater and 100 sq. hectares surrounding the crater. It is a 
> routine matter and 
> approval is expected soon. Even with paperwork pending I still have legal 
> rights here in 
> Peru. I am serious about wanting to keep this crater in pristine 
> condition until 
> scientists have had the opportunity to study it in detail. 
> 
> Peruvian law has very strict laws concerning trespassing, especially when 
> it concerns 
> mines. I will not hesitate to prosecute and trust me, American jails 
> would be considered 
> luxury resorts compared to South American jails. Your sustenance will 
> consist of beans, 
> potatoes, and rice and maybe a piece of chicken if you're lucky.You might 
> get 1 piece of 
> fruit per week. You will have to drink the local water. Diarrhea will be 
> your constant 
> companion. I guarantee you will have non-stop nightmares all night every 
> night. I know 
> the system and I will make every attempt to lengthen your stay. There are 
> ways to block 
> your attempts to contact the American embassy. 
> 
> There is currently astanding rewardforreporting to the police, any 
> meteorite hunter 
> that may wander into this area.The reward is equivalent to 6 months 
> income formost of 
> thepoor people of this area. They arenow watchful and vigilant.The towns 
> of Aplao and 
> Castillo are small. Everybody knows everybody and I have many friends in 
> each. All 
> relevant police agencies have been notified by my Peruvian attorney. 
> 
> My advice, don't even think about it. Alternatively, if you want to hunt 
> at the crater, I 
> am open to discussion, but only after scientific studies have been 
> completed. 
> 
> Randall 
> 
> No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
> with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
>   
> 


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[meteorite-list] Meteorite in New Hampshire

[Gary K. Foote]

Though the tale has not yet unfolded fully, here is where we stand to date, 
along with 
some photos...

http://www.meteorite-dealers.com/nhmet.html

More to come as we continue our search.

Gary
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[meteorite-list] FW: SSA - Announcement of Opportunity: STS-118 Downlinks

[Greg Redfern]

Hello List,

  Would you be so kind as to pass this on to schools in your area? This
is a significant opportunity for our kids to partake in history.

Thank you.

Greg Redfern
NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html
WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE
http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421


-Original Message-
From: Solar System Ambassador 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:41 PM
To: Recipient list suppressed
Subject: SSA - Announcement of Opportunity: STS-118 Downlinks
Importance: High

Please share this information with anyone you know who may be 
interested in the opportunity...

NASA is seeking formal and informal education institutions and 
organizations individually or working together, to host live, 
in-flight education downlinks during STS-118, the first flight of an 
Educator Astronaut, Barbara Morgan. The launch is scheduled for no 
earlier than June 28, 2007. The deadline to submit an application for 
STS-118 downlinks is March 9, 2007.

The Announcement of Opportunity is available on the NASA Education 
website http://education.nasa.gov/


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Re: [meteorite-list] Peruvian meteorite crater - friendly warning tohunters that may be considering...

[Howard Steffic]

Threats like this make me want to run right down there just to prove I could 
get away with it.


Howard Steffic





>From: Randall Gregory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: meteorite List 
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Peruvian meteorite crater - friendly warning 
>tohunters that may be considering...
>Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:44:34 -0800 (PST)
>
>Information is expected to be released in April on the Earth Impact 
>Database that will give the exact coordinates to the Peruvian meteorite 
>crater. I have been warned that meteorite hunters will want to turn this 
>site upside down.  If anyone wishes to hunt at this site please contact me 
>and we can discuss.
>
>   Should anyone think about hunting without contacting me. I want you to 
>understand that
>   I have paperwork filing with the Peruvian government giving me mining 
>concession rights to the crater and 100 sq. hectares surrounding the 
>crater. It is a routine matter and approval is expected soon. Even with 
>paperwork pending I still have legal rights here in Peru. I am serious 
>about wanting to keep this crater in pristine condition until scientists 
>have had the opportunity to study it in detail.
>
>   Peruvian law has very strict laws concerning trespassing, especially 
>when it concerns mines. I will not hesitate to prosecute and trust me, 
>American jails would be considered luxury resorts compared to South 
>American jails. Your sustenance will consist of beans, potatoes, and rice 
>and maybe a piece of chicken if you're lucky. You might get 1 piece of 
>fruit per week. You will have to drink the local water. Diarrhea will be 
>your constant companion. I guarantee you will have non-stop nightmares all 
>night every night. I know the system and I will make every attempt to 
>lengthen your stay. There are ways to block your attempts to contact the 
>American embassy.
>
>   There is currently a standing reward for reporting to the police, any 
>meteorite hunter that may wander into this area. The reward is equivalent 
>to  6 months income for most of the poor people of this area. They are now 
>watchful and vigilant.  The towns of Aplao and Castillo are small. 
>Everybody knows everybody and I have many friends in each. All relevant 
>police agencies have been notified by my Peruvian attorney.
>
>   My advice, don't even think about it. Alternatively, if you want to hunt 
>at the crater, I am open to discussion, but only after scientific studies 
>have been completed.
>
>   Randall
>
>
>-
>No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
>with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.


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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite in New Hampshire

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Gary, List

I don't want to throw cold water on this possibility
(plenty of that already), but every winter, there's one
or more "did a meteorite land in a pond/lake" stories
that pop up on the List. There was a long-lasting thread
back in Jan., 2001, about a lake in Finland (where,
incidentally, there are many "meteorite in a lake/pond"
stories, none of which ever panned out with a rock).

There are so many things that can make a hole
in an icy pond. The ice is obviously quite thick now.
How thick was it when the hole appeared? The fact that
the hole is in the "center" (more or less) is always a
suspicious piece of data. Lakes and ponds freeze from
the shallow shore to the deep center, in that order. The
center (or the deepest spot) is always the last place to
freeze and the ice is always thinnest there.

This creates a mental trap for the unwary pond
crosser, whether they be human or critter. You test the
ice near the edge, as you go out on it and again as you
move away from shore. It is obviously strong enough
to drive a car on; you lose caution and proceed on your
merry way. Pond crossers always go over the center
of the pond because it's the shortest distance and saving
distance is the purpose of the exercise.

Particularly when the temperature drop is recent and
not long-term, you will find lakes and ponds with thick
stampable ice over the shallow margins (and farm ponds
tend to have broad shallows) while in the center sits a
universal invitation to a sudden thermal excursion.

The owner's assertion of "no tracks" has to be weighed
against the time that may have elapsed, the wind drift factor,
the chance of snow since the incident, and the likelihood
of quick wet prancing (and very annoyed) feet leaving prints.

No hunt for a space rock is ever wasted, though. Alan
Hildebrand, of the MIAC - Prairie Meteorite Search project
in Canada, with very reasonable assumptions, estimates that
~1.4 meteorites >100 g mass occur in each km2 (or about
4.5 meteorites >10 g mass). That's about one 100+ gm
meteorite for every 175 acres, or one 10 gm every 56 acres.
Read:  http://miac.uqac.ca/MIAC/pmsearch.htm

I'm sure that your "particles" contain meteoritic material;
every open body of water in the world collects cosmic dust!
In fact, Jerry Flaherty posted a story about kids collecting
meteor "dust" on the night of major meteor showers using
a big flat pan of water. You can also find cosmic "stuff"
in the muck that lines the bottom of your gutters. Scrape
out your gutters, put the gunk in a plastic bucket, dilute
with water, drag a supermagnet through it, and Voila! Star
Dust.

There's a long list of natural occurances that can punch
holes in new-iced ponds. But one of them is... Meteorite!
My problem is that I can't find any rendition of a meteorite
having been found that way.


Sterling K. Webb

- Original Message - 
From: "Gary K. Foote" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:41 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite in New Hampshire


Though the tale has not yet unfolded fully, here is where we stand to date, 
along with
some photos...

http://www.meteorite-dealers.com/nhmet.html

More to come as we continue our search.

Gary
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[meteorite-list] Meteorite in New Hampshire

[Thomas Webb]

Hi Gary,
Let's hope your efforts will uncover a new meteorite,
but if they don't, it still makes for an interesting
story. That, plus the possibility of success makes it
well worth the chase!
Thank you very much for the information and the
pictures!
My best,
Thomas


 

Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite in New Hampshire

[Dave Freeman mjwy]

Not to mention that practice makes perfect! If not this one, maybe the 
nextand it beats sitting around the house dreaming about doing 
something fun!
Dave F
Where meteorite hunting season has reopened for the year.

Thomas Webb wrote:

>Hi Gary,
>Let's hope your efforts will uncover a new meteorite,
>but if they don't, it still makes for an interesting
>story. That, plus the possibility of success makes it
>well worth the chase!
>Thank you very much for the information and the
>pictures!
>My best,
>Thomas
>
>
> 
>
>Be a PS3 game guru.
>Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
>http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
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>
>  
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite in New Hampshire

[Gary K. Foote]

Hi sterling,

First, I realize the odds are against this being a meteoric created hole.  That 
being 
said let me shed some light on some of your questions;

On 22 Feb 2007 at 20:48, Sterling K. Webb wrote:

> The ice is obviously quite thick now.
> How thick was it when the hole appeared? 

It was totally frozen over the and 2 feet+ of snow fell the night that the hole 
appeared. 
 I assume the ice was at least 6 to eight inches thich though we did b=neglect 
to measure 
the depth of ice in the non-modified ice.  :(  Live and learn.


> the hole is in the "center" (more or less) is always a
> suspicious piece of data. Lakes and ponds freeze from
> the shallow shore to the deep center, in that order. The
> center (or the deepest spot) is always the last place to
> freeze and the ice is always thinnest there.

The pond is only 7 feet deep at the point of the hole and with our regular 
below zero 
weather the center would have been just as frozen as the edges.  In fact, 
around here it 
is at the shores where the ice is thinnest as the warmth of the underlying land 
warms the 
ice and keeps it from freezing as fast as at the deeper points.  Its always 
near the edge 
where people go in thru the ice early in winter - either there or where there 
is a 
current that keeps the water from sitting still enough long enough to freeze as 
rapidly 
the more steady water does.

> Particularly when the temperature drop is recent and
> not long-term, you will find lakes and ponds with thick
> stampable ice over the shallow margins (and farm ponds
> tend to have broad shallows) while in the center sits a
> universal invitation to a sudden thermal excursion.

If there is a tendency to thermal excursion to the center of a shallow pond I'm 
not aware 
of it.  Doesn't mean its not true - just that I've not heard of this 
phenomenon.  I'd be 
interested in anyone's pointers to greater knowledge in this area.  Further, 
this is not 
only a stream fed pond, but a spring fed pond.  the landowner assurred us the 
spring was 
a good 50 feet from the hole.

> The owner's assertion of "no tracks" has to be weighed
> against the time that may have elapsed, the wind drift factor,
> the chance of snow since the incident, and the likelihood
> of quick wet prancing (and very annoyed) feet leaving prints.

The snow, as stated before, fell on the night of the phenomenon's appearance.   
Maybe 
this is a factor in its appearance.  I just don't know.  I do know it is a 
fairly remote 
area and the landowner has a dog who is kept inside and she and her dog were 
the first 
ones on the scene in the morning.The landowner noted no tracks the very 
next morning. 
It was also clearly noted that there were no footprints anywhere on the pond 
the day we 
arrived seven days later.  Footprints persist in snow until the next snowfall 
and there 
has been no significant snow since, so I feel there had been nobody near the 
area at all.

> No hunt for a space rock is ever wasted, though. Alan
> Hildebrand, of the MIAC - Prairie Meteorite Search project
> in Canada, with very reasonable assumptions, estimates that
> ~1.4 meteorites >100 g mass occur in each km2 (or about
> 4.5 meteorites >10 g mass). That's about one 100+ gm
> meteorite for every 175 acres, or one 10 gm every 56 acres.
> Read:  http://miac.uqac.ca/MIAC/pmsearch.htm

This is one of the facts that gives me hope. I must admit to some 
disappointment, but 
like you said, the hunt itself is a worthy learning exercise.

> I'm sure that your "particles" contain meteoritic material;
> every open body of water in the world collects cosmic dust!
> In fact, Jerry Flaherty posted a story about kids collecting
> meteor "dust" on the night of major meteor showers using
> a big flat pan of water. You can also find cosmic "stuff"
> in the muck that lines the bottom of your gutters. Scrape
> out your gutters, put the gunk in a plastic bucket, dilute
> with water, drag a supermagnet through it, and Voila! Star
> Dust.

I remember this post by Jerry.  To avoid being foolde by cos=mic dust we will 
be looking 
for not only visual analysis, but nickel content analysis.  Does cosmic dust 
contain 
nickel in the 'right quantities?  Again I don't know.

> There's a long list of natural occurances that can punch
> holes in new-iced ponds. But one of them is... Meteorite!
> My problem is that I can't find any rendition of a meteorite
> having been found that way.

I know.  wouldn't it be lovely if CJ and I were the first to claim this 
particular find 
method?  The splash patterns of water around the hold are compelling though...

Thanks for your comments and information  Sterling.  We will continue the 
pursuit, though 
the odds seem to be against us at this point.  :)

Gary
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Re: [meteorite-list] [SPAM] Re: Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and BobHaag's Venus Stone

[DNAndrews]

100 bucks now?  They used to be $25 if I remember correctlyhowever I 
have CRS now (Can't Remember S_it).   I remember I bought a slice of 
Esquel from Bob in the late 90's (and not that big of slice either) and 
he through in the cast.  Righteous dude he is.

Dave

Mike Jensen wrote:

> Hi
> Here is an image of the cast of the "Venus Stone" from Bob's site.
> http://www.meteoriteman.com/graphics/venus.jpg
>
> He sells them for $100 each. My brother and I both picked up one at 
> the Tucson show this year. If I remember correctly he said those were 
> the last ones he had for sale. But you might email him to see if he 
> has any more for sale.
> http://www.meteoriteman.com/misc.htm
>
> Mike
> --
> Mike Jensen
> Jensen Meteorites
> 16730 E Ada PL
> Aurora, CO 80017-3137
> 303-337-4361
> IMCA 4264
> website: www.jensenmeteorites.com 
>
> On 2/22/07, R. N. Hartman < [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> Alex wrote < of getting
> some classification data! >>
>
> Then cut the cast instead.  :=)
>
> (He!He!)
>
> Ron
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Alexander Seidel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >;
>  >
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and
> BobHaag's
> Venus Stone
>
>
> I am also the lucky owner of one of those Venus stone casts from
> Bob Haag.
> Beautiful! And you know why he called this one the "Venus
> stone"..?? :-)
>
> This is one very special nice example of a flight-oriented
> meteorite, where
> the rule applies: NEVER EVER cut specimen like these just for the
> sake of
> getting some classification data! Why? Because a cut would destroy
> the
> "character" of the piece!
>
> And so we don´t know what´s inside this beautiful meteorite, we
> can only
> make some assumptions from non-destructive observation.
>
> Alex
> Berlin/Germany
>
>
>  Original-Nachricht 
> Datum: 22 Feb 2007 18:11:00 UT
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> 
> CC:
> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Larry\'s Holbrook Holy Grail Find and
> Bob Haag\'s
> Venus Stone
>
> > Hello Moni and List,
> >
> > Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Dave Andrews wrote to the List:
> >
> > Hi List, The Adamana or "Venus Stone" was found in the Adamana
> landfill.
> > Near the Petrified Forest/Painted Desert boundary. (about 15
> miles NE of
> > Holbrook on I-40). Evidently someone just didn't want it anymore
> or didn't
> > know what they had. It was found by a rancher target practicing
> with his
> > 0.22 rifle. With the selling of the piece to Bob, I heard he
> purchased a
> > new mobile home to live in. I have one of the casts, and it
> looks very
> > real.
> > It looks so real, that I think I'll put it up on eBay with a
> $15,000
> > reserve.
> > (just kidding :o) Regards, Dave
> >
> >
> > I got one of these casts too many years ago and they do look real!
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Bernd
> >
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> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite in New Hampshire

[Göran Axelsson]

Interesting that you should mention Finland and that no meteorite have 
been found that way. Bjurböle is a name that pops up whenever I hear 
about mysterious holes in ice.
http://www.somerikko.net/old/geo/met/mbjurb_e.htm

But I agree, this one doesn't really sounds like a meteorite and is 
probably caused some other way. The story about the hole getting bigger 
the first day is one part of it. There should also have been chunks of 
ice from the original surface but the central hole looked like it was 
filled by clear ice.
The elongated air bubbles are also common when the ice is freezing over.

We had a number of similar appearances of holes in ice 5-10 years ago 
but none yielded any meteorites.

... but I hope I'm wrong.

Good hunt!

Göran


Sterling K. Webb wrote:
> Hi, Gary, List
>
> I don't want to throw cold water on this possibility
> (plenty of that already), but every winter, there's one
> or more "did a meteorite land in a pond/lake" stories
> that pop up on the List. There was a long-lasting thread
> back in Jan., 2001, about a lake in Finland (where,
> incidentally, there are many "meteorite in a lake/pond"
> stories, none of which ever panned out with a rock).
>   

... snip ...

> There's a long list of natural occurances that can punch
> holes in new-iced ponds. But one of them is... Meteorite!
> My problem is that I can't find any rendition of a meteorite
> having been found that way.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
>   
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Re: [meteorite-list] venus meteorite and holbrook

[DNAndrews]

OK...my last post on the subject and then I'm back to perpetual 
lurking.  Promise!  Sorry I couldn't make it hunting Justin, but days 
off are scarce these days.

1.  Holbrook fall witnesses in 1912 reported 2 detonations...or booms.

2. Adamana is about 8 more miles down the railroad tracks (as the crow 
flies) from the Holbrook strewnfield

3.  Did one of those detonations make the Holbrook fall and the other 
the Adamana?  Beats me, but is quite possible.

4.  If according to the GoldShooters forum, someone was spotted 
"specking" on the north side of the tracks at "Adamana".  If so,  they 
are on PRIVATE property.  Even on the south side they are on PRIVATE 
property.  I for one, would hate to be caught on the Fitzgerald's land 
with no permission. 

5.  Adamana is NOT on the Navajo Reservation (as reported by this 
forum), but it is close to the Painted Desert/Petrified Forest National 
Park.  So is this person at Adamana or Sun Valley? 

6.  Sun Valley = Holbrook fall.  (No Navajo Reservation involved).

7.  Adamana = Adamananot Holbrook or Sun Valley.

8.  Is Larry's meteorite part of the Adamana meteorite?  Looking at my 
cast of the "Venus Stone" there is only a small amount of material 
missing from the sides.  Not a 1+ kilo chunk of fully crusted meteorite.

9.  Is Larry's meteorite related to the Adamana meteorite?  Maybe and 
maybe not.  If so, it is related like a Campo is from the same fall as 
the Campos.  Good CamposBad Campos.

10.  Is Larry's meteorite an Adamana meteorite or a Holbrook meteorite?  
It was found in the Holbrook strewnfield and there are no missing pieces 
off of the Adamana meteorite that could possibly be that big and fully 
crusted.

OKI hope I answered some questions.  Back to lurking now...

Dave



justin weippert wrote:

> I heard the same story from dave andrew when we were hunting for them 
> in holbrook. Is there anyway to tell if the have the same stone 
> chrondrules and age? I know the meteorite is 4.5 billion years old but 
> can you determine the age of the fall? I think there related in the 
> same fall..justin weippert showlow, az
>
> 
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel 
> 
>  
> to find your fit.
>
>
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite in New Hampshire

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Gary, List,

Like a clod, I meant to say what a good
page and description of the "chase" it was
and forgot to. By the time I finished reading
it, my feet were cold and I felt a sudden desire
for hot cocoa.
Your weather is colder than my weather.
And my observations are probably more true
of a winter that bounces back and forth over
the freezing line. We haven't been "subzero"
(F) for years.
Maybe the dual ice layer is the result of two
freezes, an earlier one that never melted fully
and a later one that couldn't close the gap.
The Earth gets about 400,000 tons of Interplanetary
Dust Particles per year: "The earth's surface is
constantly being rained upon by interplanetary
dust particles (IDP's), from a few to several
hundred micrometers in diameter. The mass
distribution of this dust flux peaks at around
200µm (Love and Brownlee, 1993). This dust
is thought to be derived from collisions of
asteroidal material and from comets (e.g.
Kortenkamp and Dermott, 1998). The majority
of IDPs are compositionally similar to
chondritic meteorites (Jessberger et al, 2001),
and quite distinct from crustal rocks on earth."
The exact amount of nickel in cosmic dust
bunnies is the basis of an argument. Earlier high
estimates of how much dust was incoming were
because the nickel content was thought to be
higher than it turned out to be.
But, regardless of the amount, you'll find nickel
in cosmic dust. Just think of it as ground up meteorites,
all kinds together.


Sterling K. Webb

- Original Message - 
From: "Gary K. Foote" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 

Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite in New Hampshire


Hi sterling,

First, I realize the odds are against this being a meteoric created hole. 
That being
said let me shed some light on some of your questions;

On 22 Feb 2007 at 20:48, Sterling K. Webb wrote:

> The ice is obviously quite thick now.
> How thick was it when the hole appeared?

It was totally frozen over the and 2 feet+ of snow fell the night that the 
hole appeared.
 I assume the ice was at least 6 to eight inches thich though we did 
b=neglect to measure
the depth of ice in the non-modified ice.  :(  Live and learn.


> the hole is in the "center" (more or less) is always a
> suspicious piece of data. Lakes and ponds freeze from
> the shallow shore to the deep center, in that order. The
> center (or the deepest spot) is always the last place to
> freeze and the ice is always thinnest there.

The pond is only 7 feet deep at the point of the hole and with our regular 
below zero
weather the center would have been just as frozen as the edges.  In fact, 
around here it
is at the shores where the ice is thinnest as the warmth of the underlying 
land warms the
ice and keeps it from freezing as fast as at the deeper points.  Its always 
near the edge
where people go in thru the ice early in winter - either there or where 
there is a
current that keeps the water from sitting still enough long enough to freeze 
as rapidly
the more steady water does.

> Particularly when the temperature drop is recent and
> not long-term, you will find lakes and ponds with thick
> stampable ice over the shallow margins (and farm ponds
> tend to have broad shallows) while in the center sits a
> universal invitation to a sudden thermal excursion.

If there is a tendency to thermal excursion to the center of a shallow pond 
I'm not aware
of it.  Doesn't mean its not true - just that I've not heard of this 
phenomenon.  I'd be
interested in anyone's pointers to greater knowledge in this area.  Further, 
this is not
only a stream fed pond, but a spring fed pond.  the landowner assurred us 
the spring was
a good 50 feet from the hole.

> The owner's assertion of "no tracks" has to be weighed
> against the time that may have elapsed, the wind drift factor,
> the chance of snow since the incident, and the likelihood
> of quick wet prancing (and very annoyed) feet leaving prints.

The snow, as stated before, fell on the night of the phenomenon's 
appearance.   Maybe
this is a factor in its appearance.  I just don't know.  I do know it is a 
fairly remote
area and the landowner has a dog who is kept inside and she and her dog were 
the first
ones on the scene in the morning.The landowner noted no tracks the very 
next morning.
It was also clearly noted that there were no footprints anywhere on the pond 
the day we
arrived seven days later.  Footprints persist in snow until the next 
snowfall and there
has been no significant snow since, so I feel there had been nobody near the 
area at all.

> No hunt for a space rock is ever wasted, though. Alan
> Hildebrand, of the MIAC - Prairie Meteorite Search project
> in Canada, with very reasonable assumptions, estimates that
> ~1.4 meteorites >100 g mass occur in each km2 (or about
> 4.5 meteorites >10 g mas

Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites for sale (azrou)

[Norbert F. Kammel]

Matteo, why do you bring this to the list?

> no we are not interested
Well, Matteo, we can speak for ourselves.

Just my two cents,

Norbert Kammel
IMCA # 3420
www.rocksonfire.com



> M come Meteorite Meteorites <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> no we are not interested
> 
> Matteo
> 
> --- adrar fossile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto:
> 
> > dear list's members , 
> >   i have some meteorites for sale if some on is i
> > nterested can contact me soon , 
> >   these are my information , ;
> >
> >   my full name is AIT OUZROU MOHAMED 
> >   MY EAMILS ARE :
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]AND 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]  AND
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]   AND
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> >   THESE ARE MY EMAILS .
> >   AND THE NAME OF MY SHOP LA ROSE DE SABLE .
> >   AND MY FONE NUMBER IS +21211417997 
> > 
> > 
> > -
> >  Découvrez une nouvelle façon d'obtenir des réponses
> > à toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances,
> > des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur
> > Yahoo! Questions/Réponses.>
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> >
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
> Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it 
> Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
> MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com
> EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/
> 
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   
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Re: [meteorite-list] Peruvian meteorite crater - friendly warning tohunters that may be considering...

[Notkin]

Randall Gregory posted:

>> I will not hesitate to prosecute and trust me, American jails would 
>> be considered luxury resorts compared to South
>> American jails. Your sustenance will consist of beans, potatoes, and 
>> rice and maybe a piece of chicken if you're lucky. You might get 1 
>> piece of fruit per week. You will have to drink the local water. 
>> Diarrhea will be your constant companion. I guarantee you will have 
>> non-stop nightmares all night every night. I know the system and I 
>> will make every attempt to lengthen your stay.


Hey Randall:

Thanks for the travelogue! Most entertaining. You should consider doing 
some travel writing in your spare time. Your style paints a truly 
engaging portrait of the homeland.

Listees: I propose we all add another crackpot to the blocked senders 
list (I just did). What say you? Quite a few on there already, but 
always room for one more   : )

Randall, I recommend that you check out this website. You'll find some 
kindred sprits there:

http://www.bccmeteorites.com


See you in the funny papers,

Geoff N.
www.aerolite.org


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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite in New Hampshire

[Gary K. Foote]

Thanks for the link Goran.  It is most telling that there was no mud on the 
surface of 
the ice.  From your referred webpage;

"Meteorite made 4 meter wide hole in the ice and mud was spread over 24 x 33 m 
wide area 
around the hole."

Alo,. the fact that no chunks of ice were found around the hole.  Do you think 
the heat 
or ferocity of a presumed impact might have melted or shattered them to minute 
fragments 
indestinguishable from snow?

>  The story about the hole getting bigger 
> the first day is one part of it.

That too disturbs me.  But there are thermal qualities that might have caused 
this.  
Perhaps the suddenly open water, being warmer than the surrounding ice gave the 
hole time 
to enlarge before stunning cold set back in and froze it all back up?  Just 
conjecture.

> We had a number of similar appearances of holes in ice 5-10 years ago 
> but none yielded any meteorites.

I wonder why this time period of 5 to 10 years is so short?  Why not all the 
time?
> 
> ... but I hope I'm wrong.

Me too:)

Thanks,

Gary
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite in New Hampshire

[Gary K. Foote]

Sterling,

Hot Cocoa is on me.  lol  I understand now that winters are different 
everywhere and our 
double-digit minus 0 farenheit winters may well cause different conditions than 
where you 
are.  There is no melt-freeze-melt cycle here except ant the beginning and end 
of 
winters.  The rest is all cold, cold, cold.  Odd is the day that is above 
freezing, as 
was the day of our initial hunt.

I plan to speak with some weather observers about the dual levels of ice we 
encountered 
and whether or not they are normal.  Again, my personal knowledge fails me.

As to comic dust being 'identical in nature' to incoming meteorites, that is a 
bridge we 
will have to cross when results are in.  Perhaps we will see some atmospheric 
entry 
features that preclude their being average cosmic dust.  Only the future will 
tell.

I only know that CJ and I had an exciting and wonderful day and hope to repeat 
it as 
often as possible.  Someday we will, I am sure, strike the iron while it is hot 
and find 
a meteorite soon after its fall.  We pray that it will be here in NH as it 
would be 
historic in nature.  But we do plan some trips to desert climes for some more 
traditional 
meteorite hunting.  Picking one up off the ground will certainly get our 
collective 
bloods flowing!

Very Best,

Gary

On 22 Feb 2007 at 22:37, Sterling K. Webb wrote:

> Hi, Gary, List,
> 
> Like a clod, I meant to say what a good
> page and description of the "chase" it was
> and forgot to. By the time I finished reading
> it, my feet were cold and I felt a sudden desire
> for hot cocoa.
> Your weather is colder than my weather.
> And my observations are probably more true
> of a winter that bounces back and forth over
> the freezing line. We haven't been "subzero"
> (F) for years.
> Maybe the dual ice layer is the result of two
> freezes, an earlier one that never melted fully
> and a later one that couldn't close the gap.
> The Earth gets about 400,000 tons of Interplanetary
> Dust Particles per year: "The earth's surface is
> constantly being rained upon by interplanetary
> dust particles (IDP's), from a few to several
> hundred micrometers in diameter. The mass
> distribution of this dust flux peaks at around
> 200µm (Love and Brownlee, 1993). This dust
> is thought to be derived from collisions of
> asteroidal material and from comets (e.g.
> Kortenkamp and Dermott, 1998). The majority
> of IDPs are compositionally similar to
> chondritic meteorites (Jessberger et al, 2001),
> and quite distinct from crustal rocks on earth."
> The exact amount of nickel in cosmic dust
> bunnies is the basis of an argument. Earlier high
> estimates of how much dust was incoming were
> because the nickel content was thought to be
> higher than it turned out to be.
> But, regardless of the amount, you'll find nickel
> in cosmic dust. Just think of it as ground up meteorites,
> all kinds together.
> 
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Gary K. Foote" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
> 
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite in New Hampshire
> 
> 
> Hi sterling,
> 
> First, I realize the odds are against this being a meteoric created hole. 
> That being
> said let me shed some light on some of your questions;
> 
> On 22 Feb 2007 at 20:48, Sterling K. Webb wrote:
> 
> > The ice is obviously quite thick now.
> > How thick was it when the hole appeared?
> 
> It was totally frozen over the and 2 feet+ of snow fell the night that the 
> hole appeared.
>  I assume the ice was at least 6 to eight inches thich though we did 
> b=neglect to measure
> the depth of ice in the non-modified ice.  :(  Live and learn.
> 
> 
> > the hole is in the "center" (more or less) is always a
> > suspicious piece of data. Lakes and ponds freeze from
> > the shallow shore to the deep center, in that order. The
> > center (or the deepest spot) is always the last place to
> > freeze and the ice is always thinnest there.
> 
> The pond is only 7 feet deep at the point of the hole and with our regular 
> below zero
> weather the center would have been just as frozen as the edges.  In fact, 
> around here it
> is at the shores where the ice is thinnest as the warmth of the underlying 
> land warms the
> ice and keeps it from freezing as fast as at the deeper points.  Its always 
> near the edge
> where people go in thru the ice early in winter - either there or where 
> there is a
> current that keeps the water from sitting still enough long enough to freeze 
> as rapidly
> the more steady water does.
> 
> > Particularly when the temperature drop is recent and
> > not long-term, you will find lakes and ponds with thick
> > stampable ice over the shallow margins (and farm ponds
> > tend to have broad shallows) while in the center sits a
> > universal invitation to a sudden thermal excursio

Re: [meteorite-list] Peruvian meteorite crater - friendly warning to hunters that may be considering...

[Gary K. Foote]

Randall,

I would invite people to help out - not turn them away with threats of being 
arrested.  
Heck, I'll do that now.  If anyone wants to come along on the New Hampshire 
meteorite 
hunt please do.  We'll post dates and times of when we'll be there so everyone 
can come 
along!

Come one - come all!

Gary

On 22 Feb 2007 at 20:56, Randall Gregory wrote:

> 
> Gary, 
> 
> I was told that hunters would turn the place up-side down. You know some 
> people would, 
> without respect for anything. Do I have to remind you? 
> http://www.azstarnet.com/gemshow01/0202.html 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1324361.stm 
> http://www.rockhounds.com/tucsonshow/reports/tucson96/snapsh12.shtm 
> http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3418/is_199708/ai_n8179903 
> http://www.sciencemag.org/content/vol277/issue5328/r-samples.dtl 
> http://www.sciencemag.org/content/vol277/issue5328/r-samples.dtl 
> http://www.umich.edu/~urecord/9899/Oct21_98/16.htm 
> http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=48724 
> http://www.meteorite.com/missing_stolen.html 
> 
> 
> Gem show briefs 
> Dealer robbed 2nd year in row 
> Five gemstones worth as much as $130,000 were reported stolen from a dealer 
> at a gem show 
> at the Best Western Executive Inn, 333 W. Drachman St. 
> Owner Alijohn Nourestani was having breakfast on Sunday within view of his 
> display of 
> tourmaline gemstones when five pieces were stolen, he said yesterday 
> The showcase for his business, Nourestan Gems & Minerals - The Miners of Fine 
> Tourmaline, 
> was draped with a sheet when the theft took place, police were told. 
> Nourestani, who has homes in Afghanistan and New Mexico, said yesterday that 
> at the same 
> show last year, he had several tourmaline gemstones stolen that were valued 
> at between 
> $8,000 and $10,000. He also had friends who had goods that were stolen, he 
> said. 
> "I've been coming to the gem show in Tucson for 17 years," he said. "I love 
> Tucson. But 
> we'd like the city to know we have problems. There are gangsters in Tucson." 
> Police described the suspect as a 5-foot-7-inch man, about 165 pounds and 
> wearing a 
> flannel shirt and black pants. 
> 
> 
> "Gary K. Foote" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> I think so too. A warning like this is sure to gain friends and influence 
> people. lol
> 
> Gary
> 
> On 22 Feb 2007 at 18:14, Dave Freeman mjwy wrote:
> 
> >
> > Dear Gary;
> > I kind of thought that maybe he should live a lonely life as his scare 
> tactic would
> > warrent that all meteorite persons would stay away from such a crabby 
> appleton!
> > His crater and the Peruvian government may be his ONLY FRIENDS!
> > df
> > Gary K. Foote wrote:
> >
> > A rather dark post Randall.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On 21 Feb 2007 at 18:44, Randall Gregory wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Information is expected to be released in April on the Earth Impact 
> Databasethat will
> > give the exact coordinates to the Peruvian meteorite crater. I have 
> been warned that
> > meteorite hunters will want to turn this site upside down. If anyone 
> wishes to hunt at
> > this site please contact me and we can discuss.
> >
> > Should anyone think about hunting without contacting me. I want you to 
> understand that
> > I have paperwork filing with the Peruvian government giving me mining 
> concession rights
> > to the crater and 100 sq. hectares surrounding the crater. It is a 
> routine matter and
> > approval is expected soon. Even with paperwork pending I still have 
> legal rights here in
> > Peru. I am serious about wanting to keep this crater in pristine 
> condition until
> > scientists have had the opportunity to study it in detail.
> >
> > Peruvian law has very strict laws concerning trespassing, especially 
> when it concerns
> > mines. I will not hesitate to prosecute and trust me, American jails 
> would be considered
> > luxury resorts compared to South American jails. Your sustenance will 
> consist of beans,
> > potatoes, and rice and maybe a piece of chicken if you're lucky.You 
> might get 1 piece of
> > fruit per week. You will have to drink the local water. Diarrhea will 
> be your constant
> > companion. I guarantee you will have non-stop nightmares all night 
> every night. I know
> > the system and I will make every attempt to lengthen your stay. There 
> are ways to block
> > your attempts to contact the American embassy.
> >
> > There is currently astanding rewardforreporting to the police, any 
> meteorite hunter
> > that may wander into this area.The reward is equivalent to 6 months 
> income formost of
> > thepoor people of this area. They arenow watchful and vigilant.The 
> towns of Aplao and
> > Castillo are small. Everybody knows everybody and I have many friends 
> in each. All
> > relevant police agencies have been notified 

Re: [meteorite-list] Peruvian meteorite crater - friendly warning tohunters that may be considering...

[Darren Garrison]

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:22:40 -0700, you wrote:

>Threats like this make me want to run right down there just to prove I could 
>get away with it.
>

Tell me about it.  

I'm not entirely clear on this-- is this big meteorite strewnfield (with the
threats of drawing, quartering, and reincarnation as a young boy trapped in an
elevator with Michael Jackson if you jump his claim) the same as the "Venus
meteorite" he is evangelizing about?
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[meteorite-list] Where is Beagle 2? The Search Continues

[Ron Baalke]

Particle Physics and Astronomy Research Council
Swindon, U.K.

Contacts:

Prof Colin Pillinger
The Open University
Tel: +44 1908 655 169

Peter Barratt
PPARC Head of Communications
Tel: +44 1793 442 094

16 February 2007

Where is Beagle 2? The search continues

NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) spacecraft has used its onboard
High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment camera (HiRISE) to take a colour
image of a region of Mars in the vicinity of the intended landing site of
Beagle 2.

Included in the image is new coverage of the crater H2O which was considered
by the Beagle 2 team as unique in the area that had been searched for
evidence of the missing Lander. Beagle 2 was targeted to land in an ellipse
approximately 50km x 10km in size.

The new image does not show any features inside the crater that can be
reconciled with peculiarities (i.e. possible components of the entry descent
and landing system) encountered in the two previous lower resolution images
taken soon after Beagle 2 was due to arrive on Mars in December 2003. The
previous images were captured by the Mars Orbiter Camera on NASA's Mars
Global Surveyor spacecraft.

Commenting on the latest image, Prof Colin Pillinger of the Open University
and lead scientist for Beagle 2, said: "Of course this is disappointing. We
had hoped that the HiRISE camera would clarify the oddities we had seen in
the crater but this is not the case. Nevertheless, I am extremely grateful
to the camera team at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the University of
Arizona for trying and congratulate them on the exceptional quality of the
images. I remain optimistic that future images may yet show us where Beagle
2 finally came to rest."

About PPARC,
 http://www.pparc.ac.uk/ap/intro.asp

Notes for Editors

Image and caption:
[http://www.pparc.ac.uk/nw/mro_crater.jpg (163KB)]
H20 crater. Credit: NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter

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Re: [meteorite-list] Peruvian meteorite crater - friendly warningtohunters that may be considering...

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Darren, List,

Nope. It's a different meteorite (??) that
looks exactly the same.
The Barringers got Meteor Crater by way
of Daniel Barringer's mining claim. He thought
(many did) that the vast mass of the impactor
was buried beneath the crater floor, millions
of tons of stainless steel awaiting exploitation.
He drilled  up to a quarter mile into the floor
of the crater trying to hit the main mass and
found nothing but shattered strata as far as he
went.
If Randall's crater is an impact crater, there
won't be any material within it, but that 100
hectares surrounding might yield something.
Randall's mistake is thinking that the pictures
of the stones incline anyone to hunt there. If he
threw it open to all comers and set up a free
Koolaide stand in the desert, he'd probably
have a long wait to use those frosty mugs for
any actual meteorite hunters.
Despite his "friendly" message to prospective
hunters, the fishheads and maggotty rice don't
make the stones look any more meteoric than
they did before.
The fact that no Earth geologist can say
immediately just what they are does not logically
demonstrate that they are un-Earthly. The Earth
still keeps a few little secrets of her own. How
did "josephinite" form and why is it on the surface
of the Earth instead of in the mantle? It's a mystery
to me, and yet, you can buy it on eBay.



Sterling K. Webb
--
- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Peruvian meteorite crater - friendly 
warningtohunters that may be considering...


On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:22:40 -0700, you wrote:

>Threats like this make me want to run right down there just to prove I 
>could
>get away with it.
>

Tell me about it.

I'm not entirely clear on this-- is this big meteorite strewnfield (with the
threats of drawing, quartering, and reincarnation as a young boy trapped in 
an
elevator with Michael Jackson if you jump his claim) the same as the "Venus
meteorite" he is evangelizing about?
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[meteorite-list] Hunting Martian Fossils Best Bet For Locating Mars Life

[Ron Baalke]

College of Liberal Arts and Sciences
Arizona State University
Tempe, Arizona

Media contacts:
Skip Derra, (602) 510-3402
Robert Burnham, (480) 458-8207

Source:
Jack Farmer, (480) 560-1764

Feb. 16, 2007

Hunting Martian fossils best bet for locating Mars life, says ASU researcher

SAN FRANCISCO, Calif. -- Hunting for traces of life on Mars calls for two
radically different strategies, says Arizona State University professor Jack
Farmer. Of the two, he says, with today's exploration technology we can most
easily look for evidence for past life, preserved as fossil "biosignatures"
in old rocks.

Farmer is a professor of geological sciences in ASU's School of Earth and
Space Exploration, where he heads the astrobiology program. He is reporting
on his work today (Feb. 16) at the annual meeting of the American
Association for the Advancement of Science in San Francisco.

"Searching for extraterrestrial life must follow two alternative pathways,
each requiring a different approach and tools," Farmer says. "If we're
looking for living organisms, we are doing exobiology. But if we are seeking
traces -- biosignatures -- of ancient life, it's better to call it
exopaleontology."

Unfortunately, he notes, "for the next 10 or 15 years, technology
limitations will force us down the exopaleontology path." The core issue is
accessibility. "To find living organisms on Mars," says Farmer, "you need to
find liquid water. Because liquid water is unstable on the Martian surface
today, that means going deep into the subsurface."

Water saturates the ground in high latitudes north and south, and around
both poles, only a few inches below the surface, Farmer explains. But this
water remains frozen year round. "Environments with liquid water will likely
lie far deeper, perhaps miles below the surface."

Organisms have been found living in fractured rock, thousands of feet
underground on Earth, Farmer notes. "But with current robotic technology, we
simply can't drill that deep on Mars."

Terrestrial deep drilling requires complex, heavy equipment, plus constant
supervision and troubleshooting by human crews.

Says Farmer, "We'll be lucky if, in the next decade or so, robotic drilling
on Mars reaches a depth of a couple yards."

So where does that leave us in the search for life on Mars? Farmer says our
best choice is to pursue the exopaleontology path.

"Finding the signatures of an ancient Martian biosphere means exploring old
rocks that might preserve traces of life for millions or billions of years,"
Farmer notes. Among the best places to look on Mars, he says, are deposits
left by springs and former lakes in the heavily cratered highlands. "The
rocks there date from a period in Martian history when liquid water was
common at the surface." In fact, says Farmer, conditions on Mars then were
likely similar to those on the early Earth at the time when life began.

"Besides water, life also requires energy sources and organic chemical
building blocks," Farmer explains. "The Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity
found ample evidence for water in ancient rocks at Meridiani Planum, but the
rovers' instruments can't detect organic materials." However, NASA's next
rover, the Mars Science Laboratory, will carry instruments to analyze traces
of organic substances. It is due for launch in 2009.

Recognizing a Martian fossil may be difficult. "We're not talking about
stumbling over dinosaur bones," Farmer says.

Instead, the discovery may involve finding biologically formed structures in
old sedimentary deposits, perhaps like stromatolites found here on Earth.
Stromatolites are distinctive structures that form in shallow oceans, lakes,
or streams where microbial colonies trap sediments to form thin repeating
layers.

Stromatolites also contain microscopic cellular remains and chemical traces
left by the microbes that formed them. Taken together, such structures
comprise the primary record of life in ancient rocks on Earth.

For hunting Martian fossils, says Farmer, we will need robotic microscopic
imagers capable of viewing rocks in many wavelengths as well as seeing
details as small as a hundredth of a millimeter across. Also needed are
organic chemistry laboratories to analyze promising rocks. "That will help
us avoid mistaking non-biological features for biological ones," he says.

Farmer's fieldwork has taken him to extreme microbial habitats in Iceland,
New Zealand, Yellowstone National Park and Mono Lake, Calif. He has sought
to understand how modern microbial communities become preserved as fossils.
Their environments, he notes, span physical and chemical conditions believed
to be representative of early Mars.

"Studying how microbes become fossils is a key step in developing an
effective strategy for exopaleontology," Farmer says. "It will help us find
the best places to explore on Mars and how to look."

IMAGE CAPTION:
[http://www.asu.edu/news/forthemedia/20070214_Biosignatures.htm]
The fossilized remains of Calothrix, a common bact

Re: [meteorite-list] Hunting Martian Fossils Best Bet For Locating MarsLife

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, List,

> discovery may involve finding biologically
> formed structures in old sedimentary deposits...
> like stromatolites found here on Earth.

I say we get up a kitty to send Dave Freeman!

Mars is a lot like Wyoming, Dave, only redder.


Sterling K. Webb
-
- Original Message - 
From: "Ron Baalke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite Mailing List" 
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 1:01 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Hunting Martian Fossils Best Bet For Locating 
MarsLife




College of Liberal Arts and Sciences
Arizona State University
Tempe, Arizona

Media contacts:
Skip Derra, (602) 510-3402
Robert Burnham, (480) 458-8207

Source:
Jack Farmer, (480) 560-1764

Feb. 16, 2007

Hunting Martian fossils best bet for locating Mars life, says ASU researcher

SAN FRANCISCO, Calif. -- Hunting for traces of life on Mars calls for two
radically different strategies, says Arizona State University professor Jack
Farmer. Of the two, he says, with today's exploration technology we can most
easily look for evidence for past life, preserved as fossil "biosignatures"
in old rocks.

Farmer is a professor of geological sciences in ASU's School of Earth and
Space Exploration, where he heads the astrobiology program. He is reporting
on his work today (Feb. 16) at the annual meeting of the American
Association for the Advancement of Science in San Francisco.

"Searching for extraterrestrial life must follow two alternative pathways,
each requiring a different approach and tools," Farmer says. "If we're
looking for living organisms, we are doing exobiology. But if we are seeking
traces -- biosignatures -- of ancient life, it's better to call it
exopaleontology."

Unfortunately, he notes, "for the next 10 or 15 years, technology
limitations will force us down the exopaleontology path." The core issue is
accessibility. "To find living organisms on Mars," says Farmer, "you need to
find liquid water. Because liquid water is unstable on the Martian surface
today, that means going deep into the subsurface."

Water saturates the ground in high latitudes north and south, and around
both poles, only a few inches below the surface, Farmer explains. But this
water remains frozen year round. "Environments with liquid water will likely
lie far deeper, perhaps miles below the surface."

Organisms have been found living in fractured rock, thousands of feet
underground on Earth, Farmer notes. "But with current robotic technology, we
simply can't drill that deep on Mars."

Terrestrial deep drilling requires complex, heavy equipment, plus constant
supervision and troubleshooting by human crews.

Says Farmer, "We'll be lucky if, in the next decade or so, robotic drilling
on Mars reaches a depth of a couple yards."

So where does that leave us in the search for life on Mars? Farmer says our
best choice is to pursue the exopaleontology path.

"Finding the signatures of an ancient Martian biosphere means exploring old
rocks that might preserve traces of life for millions or billions of years,"
Farmer notes. Among the best places to look on Mars, he says, are deposits
left by springs and former lakes in the heavily cratered highlands. "The
rocks there date from a period in Martian history when liquid water was
common at the surface." In fact, says Farmer, conditions on Mars then were
likely similar to those on the early Earth at the time when life began.

"Besides water, life also requires energy sources and organic chemical
building blocks," Farmer explains. "The Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity
found ample evidence for water in ancient rocks at Meridiani Planum, but the
rovers' instruments can't detect organic materials." However, NASA's next
rover, the Mars Science Laboratory, will carry instruments to analyze traces
of organic substances. It is due for launch in 2009.

Recognizing a Martian fossil may be difficult. "We're not talking about
stumbling over dinosaur bones," Farmer says.

Instead, the discovery may involve finding biologically formed structures in
old sedimentary deposits, perhaps like stromatolites found here on Earth.
Stromatolites are distinctive structures that form in shallow oceans, lakes,
or streams where microbial colonies trap sediments to form thin repeating
layers.

Stromatolites also contain microscopic cellular remains and chemical traces
left by the microbes that formed them. Taken together, such structures
comprise the primary record of life in ancient rocks on Earth.

For hunting Martian fossils, says Farmer, we will need robotic microscopic
imagers capable of viewing rocks in many wavelengths as well as seeing
details as small as a hundredth of a millimeter across. Also needed are
organic chemistry laboratories to analyze promising rocks. "That will help
us avoid mistaking non-biological features for biological ones," he says.

Farmer's fieldwork has taken him to extreme microbial habitats in Iceland,
New Zealand, Yellowstone National Park

Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag's Venus Stone

[Robert Verish]

Thanks Ruben,
for the clarification about Larry's find looking like
a "typical Holbrook" in the interior.

My curiosity was piqued when I saw the first images of
Larry's find, because a portion of the surface that
wasn't covered in fusion crust looked like chondrules
that were weathering out of the matrix.  None of the
Holbrook L6 that I've seen ever had any chondrules
sticking out of the matrix.  

But most of the large Holbrook stones that I've seen
were relatively fresher, having been picked up soon
after the fall.  Maybe the rounded features on Larry's
find are the result of weathering.  Maybe over time,
what was originally a freshly exposed interior (which
produces a surface that geologist call "hackly") has
weathered into knobby, rounded features.

Here is a more recent image of Larry's find that shows
what I'm talking about:


Looking forward to seeing some close-up images of
Larry's find.  Sure would like to know what those
round things are.

Bob V.

--
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:42:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Ruben Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [SPAM] Re: 
Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag's Venus
Stone

Hi all,
I only saw tiny fragments of Larrys find (pieces my
friend Earl dug out of the very same hole) but they
were typical Holbrook. Also it was right in the middle
of the Holbrook Strewn Field and nowhere near the
Adamana find.

Ruben

Ruben Garcia
Phoenix, Arizona
--


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[meteorite-list] Alabama Researchers Work On Laser Systems To Deflect Asteroids

[Ron Baalke]

Office of News Services
University of Alabama-Huntsville

For more information:
Ray Garner, (256) 824-6397

2/20/2007

UAH researchers working on laser system to deflect asteroid on collision
path with Earth

A team of scientists and engineers at The University of Alabama in
Huntsville (UAH) are conducting research that could one day save humanity
from asteroids threatening Earth.

UAH Laser Science and Engineering Group (LSEG), headed by Dr. Richard Fork,
professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering, is conducting research
into characterizing and deflecting asteroids that may endanger Earth.

It sounds like science fiction, but Fork, who has a doctorate from
Massachusetts Institute of Technology and more than 40 years of experience
working with lasers, said someday it could be possible to locate a laser in
space or on the moon to look at the properties of asteroids and perhaps
alter their trajectories away from Earth.

The research has students excited about using lasers for space-related
applications. Graduate student Blake Anderton wrote his master's thesis on
"Application of Mode-locked lasers to asteroid characterization and
mitigation." Undergraduate Gordon Aiken won a prize at a recent student
conference for his poster and presentation "Space positioned LIDAR system
for characterization and mitigation of Near Earth Objects." And members of
the group are building a laser system "that is the grandfather of the laser
that will push the asteroids," Fork said.

Anderton said his thesis discusses "a way to look at asteroids at maximum
range, which means early detection." According to his calculations, an
asteroid could be characterized up to 1 AU away (1.5 x 10 to the 11 meters).
Arecibo and other radar observatories can only detect objects up to 0.1 AU
away, so in theory a laser would represent a vast improvement over radar.

Anderton, who grew up on a farm in Moulton, Ala., is an engineer at Raytheon
Corp. in Huntsville. He said the project was a good one for him at this
point in his career because of his interests in optical and laser physics.
At Raytheon he's involved in radar work for the National Missile Defense
radar systems, but he's poised to move into optical and laser physics work,
so the masters degree in electrical and computer engineering with an
emphasis on optics helped him prepare for his next job assignment.

The thesis was a stepping stone that "opened doors" for him at his job, he
said. But Anderton added he has a personal interest in the asteroid
mitigation problem.

"We only have one Earth and you don't want to lose it."

Anderton shared a LSEG office with undergraduate Gordon Aiken. The two
students talked about their interests. The result of their collaboration is
a sharing of knowledge in their academic research pursuits.

Aiken started out in mechanical engineering, then transferred to optical
engineering when he discovered that UAH is one of just a few colleges in the
U.S. with an undergraduate program in optical engineering.

When Fork spoke of his research to one of Aiken's engineering classes, Aiken
expressed interest and landed a REU grant (Research Experience for
Undergraduates) for the summer of 2006.

At the end of the REU, Aiken made a presentation on what he'd learned, and
Dr. Vernhard Vogler, of UAH's Chemistry Department, suggested Aiken submit
his poster to a new annual UAH student research conference, held last year.

Aiken won the prize for best undergraduate poster and presentation.

"I really like optics. I wanted to get into the field of working with
lasers," said the sophomore, who served as a medic in the Army before coming
to UAH. "The school has been amazing for me ... If you show interest,
they're going to find something for you to do. This has all fallen into
place for me." Putting graduate students together with undergraduates is a
great idea, he noted.

"It's a good mixture of talent."

Fork said the current research relates back to work he performed in the
mid-1980s, when he and other researchers at AT&T Bell Laboratories developed
the first femtosecond lasers. They used one of the lasers to ablate material
by ultra-intense laser pulses with femtosecond time resolution ("Femtosecond
imaging of melting and evaporation at a photo excited silicon surface," M.
C. Downer, R.L. Fork and C.V. Shank, Journal of the Optical Society of
America B2,595-599 (1985)).

"The laser we are developing now is also being developed to ablate
materials," Fork said, but the device would be "a substantial distance" from
the target. The system includes an argon laser, a mode-locked Ti-sapphire
oscillator, a regenerative Ti-sapphire amplifier, a doubled neodymium-yag
pulsed laser and helium-neon line-up lasers, according to Dr. Fork.

The short-term goal of the work is "to amplify femtosecond pulses to high
peak power at high average power for remote sensing," using unique features
associated with the high pulse intensity, Fork said. The work is funded by
the U.S. Army and 

Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and Bob Haag's Venus Stone

[Robert Verish]

Hello Alex and All,

Well, Alex, it is almost 10 years now that we have
been exchanging email and posting to this List, and
over that entire time I have considered you my am
besten freund.  And as the saying goes, "the more time
goes by, the less things change".

And so, I can see that we are still in disagreement
about cutting meteorites.  In fact, when you just
wrote: 
"NEVER EVER cut specimen like these just for the sake
of getting some classification data", I am more in
disagreement with your statement than ever before.

For one thing, over the past few years there have been
advancements in stone cutting and sampling.  One
method with uses a long, but small diameter, diamond
coring device can extract enough groundmass to make a
classification, but barely leave a mark on the
specimen.

Admittedly this wouldn't be enough sample material to
qualify for a type specimen, but with regards to this
subject "Venus Stone", at least it can be classified
and then we could finally put to rest this rumor that
this stone and the Holbrook fall are related.  

Now, how I came to know this, will have to wait until
my next post.

Guten morgen mein Freund,
Bob V.  

--
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:34:30 +0100
From: "Alexander Seidel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy
Grail Find and Bob Haag's Venus Stone



This is one very special nice example of a
flight-oriented meteorite, where the rule applies: 
NEVER EVER cut specimen like these just for the sake
of getting some classification data! Why? Because a
cut would destroy the "character" of the piece!

And so we don?t know what?s inside this beautiful
meteorite, we can only make some assumptions from
non-destructive observation.

Alex
Berlin/Germany
--
  


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[meteorite-list] "Venus Stone" is not L6 (and not a Holbrook)

[Robert Verish]

And Bob Haag was right when he said that his "Venus
Stone" is too old to be from the Holbrook fall.

For the longest time, I too, thought that Bob's
"Stone" was a Holbrook meteorite, until...

I was able to closely examine the "Venus Stone" when
it was on display at the Tucson Show a couple of years
ago.  After the awe of having Bob Haag place into my
hands the most revered example of a beautiful
meteorite had subsided, I started to notice that the
exterior was more weathered than I had expected. 
There wasn't much of a fresh fusion-crust.  And then I
noticed that around the edges of the nose-cone there
were portions of the stone missing.  You can imagine
my dismay when I discovered that the stone wasn't
"perfect".  And where there were portions missing,
that exposed surface was definitely weathered.

My jaw dropped when I noticed that there were numerous
chondrules standing out in high relief on this
weathered surface.  I realized immediately that this
stone was too low of a petrologic grade and too
weathered to be a Holbrook meteorite. 
You see for yourself in this image:



The fact that the "Venus Stone" is not an L6, and
therefore not related to the Holbrook fall, was for me
a "no-brainer".  Then the idea that the "Venus Stone"
may be part of ANOTHER strewn field started to
intrigue me.  And the idea that, if another stone
could be found/classified/paired to it, then the 
"Venus Stone" could  be spared the cutting of a type
specimen!  Now that was even of more interest to me.

So, I researched this meteorite.  But I discovered
that the actual finder and the real locality were
already known.  And then I was told that the find
locality is surrounded by a National Park, The
Petrified Forest, which would complicate expanding any
possible strewn field.  It's not that I would begrudge
turning over a meteorite to the Smithsonian, it's just
that I'm not sure that even the Smithsonian can remove
a meteorite from a National Park.

So, I started to lose interest and started to
reconcile that this would end up being just another
unclassified Arizona meteorite.  Hopefully, someone
more local may get lucky one day and rekindle some
interest...
 
If you are interested, and before you head on out that
way, you should take a look at this satellite image:


Good luck,
Bob V.

P.S. - you'll notice that I've avoided using the word
"Adamana", because that name has not been formally
approved.


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