Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer

[MexicoDoug]

Thanks for that gem, Ed!, List,

This Googled up from the event:

"On the morning of August 9, 48 bc, Rome's most famous general--Gnaeus
Pompeius Magnus, or Pompey the Great--apprehensively prepared his troops to
face the army of Rome's most successful general, Gaius Julius Caesar.
Pompey's unease was fueled by a meteor that had shot across the sky near his
camp the night before. To some of his soldiers it was an ill omen. After
quelling the disturbance caused by the meteor, Pompey retired to his tent.
There he dreamed of being applauded by Rome's citizens as he dedicated a
temple to the goddess Venus, Bringer of Victory. The dream must have made
the great commander nervous. Venus was the goddess from whom Caesar's
aristocratic clan, the Julians, claimed to be descended. Though unknown to
Pompey at the time, Caesar had vowed that very day that if Venus brought him
victory at Pharsalus he would build a great temple to her in Rome."

ref:
http://www.historynet.com/historical_conflicts/3030956.html

Best Wishes and Great Health,
Doug
PS from the pay Internet reference JSTOR, we have: "Pompeius Strabo met his
death by lightning"



- Original Message - 
From: "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer


> Hi all -
>
> Going through some notes from 2003, I found this:
>
> >From Julius (IULII: OBSEQUENTIS AB ANNO URBIS CONDITAE
> DV PRODIGIORUM LIBER)
>
> "Consulship of Gnaeus Octavius and Licius Cinna (87
> BCE)
>
> "56a. While Cinna and Marius were displaying a cruel
> rage in their conduct of the civil war, at Rome in the
> camp of Gnaeus Pompeius [Strabo] the sky seems to
> fall, weapons and standards were hit, and soldiers
> struck dead.  Pompeius [Strabo] himself was struck
> dead by the
> blast of a heavenly body."
>
> good hunting,
> Ed
>
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, E.P., List

E. P. wrote:
> to put it mildly, this was a hot political topic.
> The suppression of Etruscan astromancy... actually 
> began with... Cicero... Julius's work represents 
> the last real vestige of Etruscan astromancy... 

I agree that it was a hot, very hot, topic, but I disagree 
utterly that Imperial Rome dumped haruspicy and all the
other divinatory arts, or forgot them, or ignored them, 
and here's why...

Haruspicy and traditional Eutruscan Auspices continued 
in practice.  Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, 
the emperor Claudius, of "I, Claudius" fame, was a student 
of Etruscan language and arts and opened a college to preserve 
and improve the auspicial arts, which institution lasted until 
well into the reign of Theodosius I, almost five centuries later. 
Claudius wrote a 20-scroll book about Eutruscan language, 
history and religion, entitled "Tyrrenike," only one of his 
several works on the Eutruscans.

Here's where things start to sound fishy. One encounters
statements in professional historians' work (who are these 
guys?) that go like this: "Only a few educated Romans with 
antiquarian interests, such as Varro, could read Etruscan. 
The last person known to have been able to read Etruscan 
was Claudius and his books were quickly forgotten and lost."

Let me get this straight. There's The Roman Imperial College
of Haruspicy and the Eutruscan Arts of Divination, in business 
and thriving for four to five centuries, turning out thousands of 
graduates over those centuries, AND YET, they lose all the 
books that teach the language, forget their knowledge of the 
language, the language that the Libri Haruspicini were written in?!

Does this seem likely? Logical? Expected? Or does it offend
reason? And, more importantly, is it true?

OK, this is where I insert the 317 long boring paragraphs 
detailing that haruspicy flourished and was widespread and 
was taken very seriously for many centuries after the point
where you say it was forgotten. 

Well, you can heave a big sigh of relief because I'm going 
to skip them (hooray!) and fast forward to 408 AD when the 
Goths under Alaric beseiged Rome and starved it in an 
attempt to blackmail the Emperor into paying up what he 
owed the Goths. The haruspices stepped forward and offered 
their services to help save the City, even in a Christian Empire. 
And, surprise, Pope Innocent I welcomed their aid (welcomed 
pagan priests?!), so long as their rituals were kept secret. I
repeat, so long as their rituals were kept secret. It would appear
that the Pope believed in the Auspices, too...

And at long last, we reach the KEY word: SECRET. We 
modern enlightened types just can't take Greek or Roman 
religious concepts, beliefs and practices seriously. We teach
mythology to our children like it was fairie tales, entertainment.
THE ROMANS BELIEVED THEIR RELIGION AS MUCH AS
ANYBODY. The Greeks and Romans believed their religion 
as much as martyrs believe the faith they die for, as much as 
Usamah bin Laden believes God wants him to kill us, as much 
as the Pope believes in Catholicism.

What is Divination? It is a secret and certain knowledge
of the future. It reveals to The Rulers what is going to happen,
where, when, and how, what is the right policy, the right war,
how to fight it, who your enemies are... all the stuff worth 
knowing.

What does that sound like to you? What, in our own modern
"scientific" society, do we call that? When we write the Auspices 
down for the Emperor, what do we call it?  Good Guess!   It's 
called the National Intelligence Estimate!

We have many Colleges of Haruspectelligence, many Guilds,
many Priesthoods and varieties, the CIApex, the NSApex, more
than a dozen (that we know about), and the one thing that we all
agree on is that their Augeries MUST be kept SECRET, and that
the Rulers must be in Control of them. Just ask Mr. Bush. Are 
leaks bad? Can I browse the CIA files for 2001? When are you
publishing these in book form?

How does the Ruler accomplish this? He must control the
Haruspex in all their multitudes. For the Roman Emperor, it
is to combine in his person all the offices including the most
important of all: Pontifex Maximus, the Priest In Charge. The
Haruspex all work for him now. To keep the Auspices Secret, 
you must Control them absolutely. The secrecy and your control 
of it guarantees that they can never be used against you politically.

You might want to ask Mr. Bush about that also. (Or Mr. 
Nixon, Kennedy, Reagan, Carter; they all seem to have agreed 
identically on this point of procedure: secrecy and control.)

So it is today that the Chiefs of all the Haruspectelligence
Agencies are commanded by The Ruler. He even has a Director 
of National Haruspectelligence who function is to command the 
lesser Haruspectelligence Agencies for The Ruler. So it was that 
the Emperor controlled all public knowledge of the Augeries, or

[meteorite-list] AD: 411 gram Diogenite/Ebay buy it nows/Website Sale

[dean bessey]

I am in the process of reorganizing my ebay auctions
and raising money to buy stuff in morocco that I will
pik up in Ensisheim. I will be cancelling all my
auctions next week and slowly redo them next week and
would prefer to sell as much as possible before I do
that. 
I have over 300 ebay buy it now meteorites in my store
and have started putting a 15% discount on them. The
discount already shows on some but ebay has a 250 per
day limit on items you can discount so I will be
sunday before they all get discounts. If you see one
now that you want without the discount email me and I
can sell it directly. (The only Exception is that I
cant give a discount on the classification service
auction)
I have a 411 gram NWA diogenite with around 40% crust.
Photos in my closed ebay auction #190092894624  
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=190092894624
I actually have a deal to sell this one for $4000 but
my customer hasnt paid me in 5 months and I havent
even been able to contact him for a month and I need
money to buy stuff for ensisheim so if anybody is
interested it is available for $4000. I will most
likely chop it up next week and get it classified and
named if I dont get any interest so if anybody is
interested in the diogenite main mass let me know.
I also have around 100 meteorites in my ecommerce
website at http://www.neptuneposeidon.com/. I can
offer a 20% discount from that website (Plus $20 a
kilo postage). Click meteorites in the upper left
corner. 
In addition I have low grade weathered chondrites
available at 3.75 cents a gram. Pretty ugly but
certainly cheap enough.
Shipping on everything is extra and around $20 a kilo
(Postage here in new zealand is expensive).
See you all in ensisheim
Cheers
DEAN


 

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Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi Mike - 

My own notes on Julius work. I'm sure I have copies of
the exact translation from which I worked somewhere in
my papers, but I seem to have ommitted it from my
note.
I suppose it was the initial onset of the stroke in
2003.

good hunting,
Ed 

A FEW FACTS ABOUT THE ROLES OF POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS
FACTORS IN THE SUPPRESSION OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF IMPACTS

DURING THE YEARS OF THE COLLAPSE OF THE ROMAN REPUBLIC


While it is true that the Church's Platonic orthodoxy
was rather strictly enforced for 1600 years or so, 
in point of fact that suppression of impact knowledge
began long before the Church ever gained power.

>From Julius (IULII: OBSEQUENTIS AB ANNO URBIS CONDITAE
DV PRODIGIORUM LIBER)  

"Consulship of Gnaeus Octavius and Licius Cinna (87
BCE)

"56a. While Cinna and Marius were displaying a cruel
rage in their conduct of the civil war, at Rome in the
camp of Gnaeus Pompeius [Strabo] the sky seems to
fall, weapons and standards were hit, and soldiers
struck dead.  Pompeius [Strabo] himself was struck
dead by the 
blast of a heavenly body."

and to put it mildly, this was a hot political topic.
The suppression of Etruscan astromancy and knowledge
of impact lore actually thus actually began with
Senate loyalist Cicero's deprecations of it in De
Divinatione (70 BCE) and De haruspicum Responsis (56
BCE), works which he wrote in support of Pompeius
Magnus, Pompeius Strabo's son, and against Caesar, who
held the office of Pontifex Maximus, head of the
haruspex.  But events will take yet a stranger turn.

As Julius's work represents the last real vestige of
Etruscan astromancy and impact lore, establishing its
date is essential.  Now it is widely held that Julius
himself extracted his haruspex's records from the
history of Rome which was written by Titus Livy, who
lived 59 BCE - 17 CE; Livy is thought to have begun
writing his history around 29 BCE, and it is commonly
held that Julius's wrote his work much, much later
than 17 CE.  

But a problem with this dating scenario is that the
poet and astronomer Manilius appears to paraphrase
part of Julius's work in his Astonomica at IV.45-62,
and Manilius is known to have written this particular
work spanning the time of the Emperor Augustus's death
in 14 
CE. (For the date of the composition of the
Astronomica definitively established by J.P. Good, see
Manilius, Astronomica, J.P. Good translation, Loeb
Classical Library, page xiii). Therefore Julius's work
or a part of it was must have been written before 14
CE.

Were Julius's own personal name "Julius" not enough,
his conspicuous use of the name "Caesar" for Octavian,
a usage which Julius Caesar's nephew Octavian (later
known as Augustus, the first Roman Emperor) himself
ferociously advocated, marks the work as having been
written for the most part early in Octavian's campaign
for absolute power, if not indeed even earlier.
Julius's anti-Pompey bias is clearly demonstrated by
his reminder again of Pompey Strabo's death by fulmine
in his entry for Strabo's son Pompey Magnus's death in
46 BCE. 

All of this brings us to a possible reason why Julius
wrote the work in the first place - as a piece of
political propaganda first for Julius Caesar, and then
for Octavian.  Seen in another light, as the office of
Emperor was entirely of Octavian's (Augustus's) own
making, and without precedent in Roman politics, there
must have been a strong concern among the haruspex as
to what role they would play in the new political
order. Quid pro quo, the influence of the haruspex
over the traditional republicans who normally would
abhor an emperor with the deepest of passions must
have been considerable. In short, at this point in
time, Etruscan astromancy and its knowledge of impact
events was again being promoted, for the same reason
Cicero had for be-littling it.

While the anti-Pompey bias of Julius's work is datable
to sometime around Pompei's defeat by Julius Caesar,
say 49-46 BCE, there are yet other political
considerations which allow us to further refine the
date of the composition.  Following Caesar's murder by
the Senate, his nephew and heir Octavian (Augustus)
marched on Rome; in the meantime, Caesar's supporter
Marcus Antonius (Anthony) moved to take on a general
supported by the Senate, one Decimus Junius Brutus
Albinus. 

After Antony's defeat of the consuls sent against him
by the Senate, Octavian gained authority from that
same Senate to move against Anthony. The first thing
which Octavian did with his new authority was to shore
up his position in Rome; and then through the offices
of Antonius's supporter, Marcus Aemilius Lepidus,
Octavian promptly entered into a new coalition with
Lepidus and Anthony, yet another triumvirate, to take
on those generals supporting the very same Senate
which had appointed him in the first place. 

Here we come to the detailed events bearing more
directly on the problem at hand, the suppression of
Etruscan astromancy and impact knowledge. Through
these agreements with Octav

Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer

[Michael L Blood]

Hi Ed,
While interesting, such comments can be found in goodly
numbers, however, when trying to pin down the sources of these
statements, one runs into things like, "Going through some
notes from 2003..."
What notes? Were they notes you took from reading an article,
a book or comments on a web site? If so, what was the date of the
publication, the name of the publication, the author, the name of the
article or book, the title of the Web site, the URL address, etc. Any
and all of these are crucial to any attempt to verify the original
source.  
The description of events sounds terrific, but one immediately
wonders about exactly what "a heavenly body" is within said context.
If it was a meteorite that resulted in multiple deaths, one would think
it would have been kept as an historical artifact. If it was, where and
when is it referred to again? Etc.
Personally, it find it extremely frustrating to read such
"accounts" when a lack of citations makes further investigation
impossible. It is even more frustrating when the incident related
would be of such significance.
Of course, this rant is not "aimed" at you - this is a rampant
problem when trying to get the nitty gritty on hammers of an age
at all - and often even with recent falls, such as the Mbale that
struck a boy after going through a banana tree. Fortunately,
someone at least took a photo of him but wouldn't it be nice to
know his name? What happened to that particular stone? Did he
throw it away? Did he sell it? If so, in who's collection does it now
reside? 
Some of you might have checked my hammer web page

http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers.html

If so, you have found that many of the hammers have almost no information,
while others have a significant amount that makes it difficult to put into
one or two paragraphs - even with URL links, etc. The irony is I have spent
much more research time on the items that have very little information than
on those that have a lot. Some of those with very little have ten or twenty
hours (or more) dedicated to each in attempts to find out more about them.
Anyway, perhaps I should write a second book on "mythical" hammers.
They are certainly far easier to research and many of them are quite
spectacular! It is probably some great character flaw of mine that I get
so frustrated with "dead end" information - and the better it is, the more
frustrated I find myself with the inability to find out more.
Please excuse, Hammerhead Michael




on 4/13/07 2:38 PM, E.P. Grondine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi all - 
> 
> Going through some notes from 2003, I found this:
> 
>> From Julius (IULII: OBSEQUENTIS AB ANNO URBIS CONDITAE
> DV PRODIGIORUM LIBER)
> 
> "Consulship of Gnaeus Octavius and Licius Cinna (87
> BCE)
> 
> "56a. While Cinna and Marius were displaying a cruel
> rage in their conduct of the civil war, at Rome in the
> camp of Gnaeus Pompeius [Strabo] the sky seems to
> fall, weapons and standards were hit, and soldiers
> struck dead.  Pompeius [Strabo] himself was struck
> dead by the 
> blast of a heavenly body."
> 
> good hunting,
> Ed
> 
> 
> __
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> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--
If You Want a Nation Ruled By Religion, Move to Iran
--
Success is not counted by how high you have climbed but by how
many people you brought with you.  ­ Anonymous
-- 
I have given two cousins to war and I stand
ready to sacrifice my wife's brother.
 Artemus Ward
--
--


  








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Re: [meteorite-list] Large Meteor Streaks Across Sky in Hawaii

[Chris Peterson]

Well, if you had seen it, you probably would have called it a contrail 
(and a lot bigger than a poi pounder, I'm sure ).


"We saw a glow going over us, just like an airplane."
For one to two minutes, the paddlers watched the object move across the 
sky, leaving a trail of smoke before it disappeared behind Haleakala.


Here's a link with pictures: http://www.mauinews.com/story.aspx?id=29431

Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Ron Baalke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Meteorite Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large Meteor Streaks Across Sky in Hawaii



Hi List
I couldn't have said it better myself 

"Maberry said the meteor itself would not need to be very large to
make a spectacular show.

"They don't have to be much larger than a poi pounder to look really
big," he said."


--
Mike
--
Mike Jensen
Jensen Meteorites
list 


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Re: [meteorite-list] Large Meteor Streaks Across Sky in Hawaii

[Mike Jensen]

Hi List
I couldn't have said it better myself 

"Maberry said the meteor itself would not need to be very large to
make a spectacular show.

"They don't have to be much larger than a poi pounder to look really
big," he said."


--
Mike
--
Mike Jensen
Jensen Meteorites
16730 E Ada PL
Aurora, CO 80017-3137
303-337-4361
IMCA 4264
website: www.jensenmeteorites.com


On 4/13/07, Ron Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Apr/12/br/br1498307256.html

'Very lucky' folks on Maui possibly saw meteor
By BRIAN PERRY
The Maui News
April 12, 2007

WAILUKU - A brightly glowing object that streaked across the sky above
Maui was reported by a few people up early enough Wednesday morning to
witness the phenomenon.

The Maui News received several phone calls from people who said they saw
what probably was a large meteor that moved from northwest to southeast
or reporting an unusual cloud that remained in the sky after it passed.

Mike Maberry, assistant director of the University of Hawaii Institute
for Astronomy, said he was not aware of any reports of an object in the
sky. But he said its description sounded like a meteor.

"Whoever got to see that was very lucky," he said, adding that chances
are "very slim" of a meteor landing in the vicinity of Maui in the
middle of the Pacific.

Maberry said the meteor itself would not need to be very large to make a
spectacular show.

"They don't have to be much larger than a poi pounder to look really
big," he said.

Many of the meteors that make bright streaks across the night sky are
only the size of a grain of sand, he said. A meteor is a rock or similar
solid material that crosses into the Earth's atmosphere, with the
friction from the high-speed entry causing the material to burn. When a
space object lands on Earth, it is called a meteorite.

Kaleo Evangelista, a paddler with Kihei Canoe Club who was working out
with a crew offshore from old Suda Store, said the glowing object made
quite a show a few minutes after 5:30 a.m.

"We saw a glow going over us, just like an airplane," he said. But
instead of seeing an aircraft the canoe paddlers saw a light blue,
almost white object moving from northwest to southeast.

For one to two minutes, the paddlers watched the object move across the
sky, leaving a trail of smoke before it disappeared behind Haleakala.
Evangelista said he couldn't tell if the object landed on land or in the
ocean.

"We didn't see any kind of explosion or flash," he said.

The object traveled roughly parallel to land until it abruptly changed
course, "dropping down at a 45-degree angle," he said.

Evangelista called his friend, Charlie Fleck, who lives in Wailuku
Heights. Fleck woke up, stepped outside and snapped photos at 5:49 a.m.
of the smoke trail with his digital camera, but he didn't see the object
itself.

"It was just an amazing looking sight," Fleck said. "The smoke lingered
for an hour in the sky. . . . It was big, very noticeable in the sky."

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[meteorite-list] Large Meteor Streaks Across Sky in Hawaii

[Ron Baalke]

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Apr/12/br/br1498307256.html

'Very lucky' folks on Maui possibly saw meteor
By BRIAN PERRY
The Maui News
April 12, 2007

WAILUKU - A brightly glowing object that streaked across the sky above
Maui was reported by a few people up early enough Wednesday morning to
witness the phenomenon.

The Maui News received several phone calls from people who said they saw
what probably was a large meteor that moved from northwest to southeast
or reporting an unusual cloud that remained in the sky after it passed.

Mike Maberry, assistant director of the University of Hawaii Institute
for Astronomy, said he was not aware of any reports of an object in the
sky. But he said its description sounded like a meteor.

"Whoever got to see that was very lucky," he said, adding that chances
are "very slim" of a meteor landing in the vicinity of Maui in the
middle of the Pacific.

Maberry said the meteor itself would not need to be very large to make a
spectacular show.

"They don't have to be much larger than a poi pounder to look really
big," he said.

Many of the meteors that make bright streaks across the night sky are
only the size of a grain of sand, he said. A meteor is a rock or similar
solid material that crosses into the Earth's atmosphere, with the
friction from the high-speed entry causing the material to burn. When a
space object lands on Earth, it is called a meteorite.

Kaleo Evangelista, a paddler with Kihei Canoe Club who was working out
with a crew offshore from old Suda Store, said the glowing object made
quite a show a few minutes after 5:30 a.m.

"We saw a glow going over us, just like an airplane," he said. But
instead of seeing an aircraft the canoe paddlers saw a light blue,
almost white object moving from northwest to southeast.

For one to two minutes, the paddlers watched the object move across the
sky, leaving a trail of smoke before it disappeared behind Haleakala.
Evangelista said he couldn't tell if the object landed on land or in the
ocean.

"We didn't see any kind of explosion or flash," he said.

The object traveled roughly parallel to land until it abruptly changed
course, "dropping down at a 45-degree angle," he said.

Evangelista called his friend, Charlie Fleck, who lives in Wailuku
Heights. Fleck woke up, stepped outside and snapped photos at 5:49 a.m.
of the smoke trail with his digital camera, but he didn't see the object
itself.

"It was just an amazing looking sight," Fleck said. "The smoke lingered
for an hour in the sky. . . . It was big, very noticeable in the sky."

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[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: April 9-13, 2007

[Ron Baalke]

MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
April 9-13, 2007

o Argyre Dunes (Released 09 April 2007)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20070409a

o Polar Ridges (Released 10 April 2007)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20070410a

o Landslide (Released 11 April 2007)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20070411a

o Storm Season (Released 12 April 2007)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20070412a

o South Pole (Released 13 April 2007)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20070413a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 


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[meteorite-list] Deep Impact Extended Mission Could Probe Deeper Into Solar System Origin

[Ron Baalke]

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2007/epoxi.html

Deep Impact Extended Mission Could Probe Deeper Into Solar System Origin
Bill Steigerwald
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
April 5, 2007

In July, 2005, the Deep Impact spacecraft released a probe that blasted
a crater in comet Tempel 1, spilling its elements into space so
scientists could discover its composition. The assault was justified
because comets are thought to be leftovers from the formation of our
solar system, so learning more about them helps to understand how our
solar system came to be.

Since those fireworks, the spacecraft has cruised silently through
space, healthy and able to take on another mission, if needed. The Deep
Impact team realized that with the spacecraft already built and
launched, extra discoveries could be made at very little cost, a bonus
for an already successful mission.

The team put together a proposal to use the spacecraft's telescope to
observe the atmospheres of alien worlds, and to visit another comet. The
proposed extended mission is called EPOXI (Extrasolar Planet Observation
and Deep Impact Extended Investigation), and it has received $500,000
from NASA for an initial study to determine the requirements and costs
in greater detail.

If approved, as Deep Impact passes by Earth on December 31, 2007, it
will use our planet's gravity to direct itself to comet Boethin. While
it cruises toward the comet, the first part of the extended mission --
the investigation of alien worlds --would begin in January, 2008. More
than 200 alien (extrasolar) planets have been discovered to date. Most
of these are detected indirectly, by the gravitational pull they exert
on their parent star. Directly observing extrasolar planets is very
difficult, because the star is so brilliant compared to the planet.
Planets simply get lost in the glare, like fireflies near a headlight.

However, sometimes by chance the orbit of an extrasolar planet is
aligned so that it eclipses its star as seen from Earth. In these rare
cases, light from the extrasolar world can be seen directly. "When the
planet appears next to its star, your telescope captures their combined
light. When the planet passes behind its star, your telescope only sees
light from the star. By subtracting light from just the star from the
combined light, you are left with light from the planet. We can analyze
this light to discover what the atmospheres of these planets are like,"
said Drake Deming of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md.,
Deputy Principal Investigator for EPOXI.

Deep Impact will observe three nearby stars with "transiting extrasolar
planets," so named because the planet transits, or passes in front of,
its star. The planets were discovered earlier and are giant planets with
massive atmospheres, like Jupiter in our solar system. They orbit their
stars much closer than Earth does the sun, so they are hot and belong to
the class of extrasolar planets nicknamed "Hot Jupiters".

These giant planets may not be alone. If there are other worlds around
these stars, they might also transit the star and be discovered by the
spacecraft. Even if they don't transit, Deep Impact could find them
indirectly. Their gravity will pull on the transit planets, altering
their orbits and the timing of their transits. "Since Deep Impact will
be able to stare at these stars for long periods, we can observe
multiple transits and compare the timing to see if there are any hidden
worlds," said Deming.

Around May of 2008, the extended mission will transition to the second
phase as the spacecraft approaches comet Boethin. In mid-December 2008,
Deep Impact will come within 700 kilometers (435 miles) of Boethin.
Passing by at more than 10 kilometers per second (6.2 miles per second),
Deep Impact will only have about a half-dozen hours to make detailed
observations.

"The comet hit by Deep Impact's probe, Tempel 1, was unusual compared to
other comets we have seen up close," said Michael A'Hearn of the
University of Maryland, College Park, Principal Investigator for EPOXI.
For example, it appears that several pieces may have come together to
build up the comet's nucleus, the lump of ice and dust that comprises
the solid part of a comet. Second, comets vent gases as they come closer
to the sun and warm up. Tempel 1 did this as well, but in an unusual
way. Water vapor vents appeared all over the nucleus, as expected, but
carbon dioxide only vented from certain parts. Also, since comets are a
mixture of dust and ice, scientists expected dust to be dragged out from
any gas vent, but dust only came from the carbon dioxide vents. Third,
there are some very smooth areas on the nucleus, as if something had
flowed there. However, the comet's gravity is extremely weak, so
scientists don't understand how any material could be pulled down to
flow across the surface. Finally, there are circular areas with raised
rims that resemble impact craters. However, craters haven't been seen on

[meteorite-list] In search of a hammer

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi all - 

Going through some notes from 2003, I found this:

>From Julius (IULII: OBSEQUENTIS AB ANNO URBIS CONDITAE
DV PRODIGIORUM LIBER)  

"Consulship of Gnaeus Octavius and Licius Cinna (87
BCE)

"56a. While Cinna and Marius were displaying a cruel
rage in their conduct of the civil war, at Rome in the
camp of Gnaeus Pompeius [Strabo] the sky seems to
fall, weapons and standards were hit, and soldiers
struck dead.  Pompeius [Strabo] himself was struck
dead by the 
blast of a heavenly body."

good hunting,
Ed


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[meteorite-list] NASA Says Stardust Samples Not Contaminated by Rocket Fuel

[Ron Baalke]

http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg19425993.400-nasa-says-space-find-isnt-just-rocket-fuel.html

NASA says space find isn't just rocket fuel
New Scientist
13 April 2007

Stardust looped thrice around the sun, flew past comet Wild 2 and 
brought back the first ever sample of comet dust. So the last thing 
NASA wants to hear is that the sample may be contaminated by the 
spacecraft's own fuel.

Stardust's capsule of comet dust parachuted down to the Utah desert 
in January 2006. NASA scientists found an unusual titanium nitride 
mineral inside a single particle of dust collected by the probe. 
This mineral, called osbornite, forms only at high temperatures, 
and researchers put it down to material that came from the inner 
solar system.

However, Jesu's Martinez-Frias of the NASA Astrobiology Institute 
in Madrid, Spain, and colleagues point out that Stardust was 
propelled by hydrazine, which reacts with titanium to produce 
titanium nitride particles (Energy Fuels, DOI: 10.1021/ef070014r). 
So could the hydrazine have reacted with titanium compounds from 
the spacecraft or the comet to form osbornite?

"No chance," says Stardust researcher Michael Zolensky at NASA's 
Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. "The titanium nitride 
grains are sitting inside of other minerals, which are sitting 
inside other minerals" in a single particle that penetrated very 
deep into the fluffy aerogel that collected the comet dust, 
Zolensky says.

Also, there is no trace of osbornite elsewhere on the dust 
collector, nor on a separate "witness" aerogel that was shielded 
from comet dust to show up any contamination from the spacecraft.

>From issue 2599 of New Scientist magazine, 13 April 2007, page 6

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[meteorite-list] AD: LUCKY FRIDAY THE 13th EBAY NWA SALE

[dean bessey]

Not sure whats going on with this weeks sale but it
seems like a big flop. I have 150 auctions and less
than $100 in bids. Dozens of auctions still at a penny
including things like a half kilo of meteorites still
only bid at one cent.
Maybe friday the 13th is scaring people off. 
See my ebay id AMUNRE
http://stores.ebay.com/AMUNRE-COLLECTIBLES-AND-GEMSTONES_Meteorites_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ4QQftidZ2QQtZkm
Auctions will start ending in about an hours time and
will slowly end over the next few hours
Sincerely
DEAN BESSEY
www.meteoriteshop.com

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[meteorite-list] Report Reveals Likely Causes of Mars Global Surveyor Loss

[Ron Baalke]

April 13, 2007

Dwayne Brown
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-1726

Guy Webster 
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
818-354-6278 

RELEASE: 07-88

REPORT REVEALS LIKELY CAUSES OF MARS SPACECRAFT LOSS

WASHINGTON - After studying Mars four times as long as originally 
planned, NASA's Mars Global Surveyor orbiter appears to have 
succumbed to battery failure caused by a complex sequence of events 
involving the onboard computer memory and ground commands. 

The causes were released today in a preliminary report by an internal 
review board. The board was formed to look more in-depth into why 
NASA's Mars Global Surveyor went silent in November 2006 and 
recommend any processes or procedures that could increase safety for 
other spacecraft.

Mars Global Surveyor last communicated with Earth on Nov. 2, 2006. 
Within 11 hours, depleted batteries likely left the spacecraft unable 
to control its orientation.

"The loss of the spacecraft was the result of a series of events 
linked to a computer error made five months before the likely battery 
failure," said board Chairperson Dolly Perkins, deputy 
director-technical of NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, 
Md.

On Nov. 2, after the spacecraft was ordered to perform a routine 
adjustment of its solar panels, the spacecraft reported a series of 
alarms, but indicated that it had stabilized. That was its final 
transmission. Subsequently, the spacecraft reoriented to an angle 
that exposed one of two batteries carried on the spacecraft to direct 
sunlight. This caused the battery to overheat and ultimately led to 
the depletion of both batteries. Incorrect antenna pointing prevented 
the orbiter from telling controllers its status, and its programmed 
safety response did not include making sure the spacecraft 
orientation was thermally safe. 

The board also concluded that the Mars Global Surveyor team followed 
existing procedures, but that procedures were insufficient to catch 
the errors that occurred. The board is finalizing recommendations to 
apply to other missions, such as conducting more thorough reviews of 
all non-routine changes to stored data before they are uploaded and 
to evaluate spacecraft contingency modes for risks of overheating.

"We are making an end-to-end review of all our missions to be sure 
that we apply the lessons learned from Mars Global Surveyor to all 
our ongoing missions," said Fuk Li, Mars Exploration Program manager 
at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

Mars Global Surveyor, launched in 1996, operated longer at Mars than 
any other spacecraft in history, and for more than four times as long 
as the prime mission originally planned. The spacecraft returned 
detailed information that has overhauled understanding about Mars. 
Major findings include dramatic evidence that water still flows in 
short bursts down hillside gullies, and identification of deposits of 
water-related minerals leading to selection of a Mars rover landing 
site.

The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manages Mars Global 
Surveyor for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, Denver, developed and operates the spacecraft.

Information about the Mars Global Surveyor mission, including the 
preliminary report from the process review board and a list of some 
important discoveries by the mission, is available on the Internet 
at:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mgs 

EDITORS NOTE:

NASA will hold a media teleconference today at 3 p.m. EDT, to discuss 
the report. 

Reporters should call 1-888-398-6118 and use the pass code "Mars" to 
participate in the teleconference. International media should call 
1-773-681-5826. Replays of the teleconference will be available by 
calling 866-369-3645. International media may call: 203-369-0243.

Audio of the teleconference will stream live at: 

http://www.nasa.gov/newsaudio


-end-

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Re: [meteorite-list] Sonic Boom in Florida?

[Leigh Anne DelRay]

I think it is funny that the guy in this article who was panicked and startled 
had the last name of Panik.
-LA DelRay

Ron Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070411/NEWS01/70411023/1006/news01

It had thunder of a sonic boom, resident says
BY DON WALKER
FLORIDA TODAY
April 11, 2007

The explosion was heard miles away.

At Pineda Crossing, near the Suntree subdivision, John Panik said he was
having trouble sleeping, got out of bed and turned on the television
just before 3 a.m.

"I was sitting there and suddenly there was a loud boom," Panik said.
"It shook the windows - not like a big rattle, but a little one. I
thought, 'That's not normal.'"

The clock read 3:30 a.m. Panik called the Brevard County Sheriff's
Office, and was told by dispatcher they'd send a deputy out to check out
the area. He also contacted Patrick Air Force Base, and was told they
didn't know anything about it.

"I thought it was a sonic boom," he said. "That's what I told the
sheriff. Like the shuttle returning, but usually you hear two booms, not
one."

This morning, reports of the explosion were all over the television.

"Everybody freaked out. My wife said, 'Oh, you did hear something,'"
Panik said.

There have also been calls to FLORIDA TODAY from residents in Satellite
Beach who heard the explosion.

This story is developing. If you heard the explosion and would like to
comment, please contact Walker at 242-3527 or e-mail
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please include name and a phone number.

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I hope that helps you out. 
Thanks, 
Leigh Anne Delray


   
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Re: [meteorite-list] Sonic Boom in Florida?

[FBlockland]

 
It was a house that exploded!
 
_http://www.palmbeachpost.com/search/content/gen/ap/FL_Building_Explosion.html
_ 
(http://www.palmbeachpost.com/search/content/gen/ap/FL_Building_Explosion.html) 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 4/12/2007 4:08:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070411/NEWS01/7041102
3/1006/news01

It  had thunder of a sonic boom, resident says
BY DON WALKER
FLORIDA  TODAY
April 11, 2007

The explosion was heard miles away.

At  Pineda Crossing, near the Suntree subdivision, John Panik said he  was
having trouble sleeping, got out of bed and turned on the  television
just before 3 a.m.

"I was sitting there and suddenly  there was a loud boom," Panik said.
"It shook the windows - not like a big  rattle, but a little one. I
thought, 'That's not normal.'"

The clock  read 3:30 a.m. Panik called the Brevard County Sheriff's
Office, and was  told by dispatcher they'd send a deputy out to check out
the area. He also  contacted Patrick Air Force Base, and was told they
didn't know anything  about it.

"I thought it was a sonic boom," he said. "That's what I told  the
sheriff. Like the shuttle returning, but usually you hear two booms,  not
one."

This morning, reports of the explosion were all over the  television.

"Everybody freaked out. My wife said, 'Oh, you did hear  something,'"
Panik said.







** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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[meteorite-list] Software Models Consequences Of Asteroid Strikes

[Mal Bishop]

I thought some of you might find this of interest:

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/070410_technovel_asteroidcomp.html


"...An asteroid just 200 meters in diameter hitting one of Earth's oceans 
could cause tsunamis around the world. The largest asteroid strike in 
recent human memory, at the 
Tunguska 
River in Russia, felled 80 million trees over an area of 2,150 kilometers. 
That object's size has been estimated at about 50 meters in diameter."



Mal



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Re: [meteorite-list] buying pallasites

[Michel FRANCO]

Hi Harlan and list,

My Seymchan are not epoxy polished!



See my page HUGE Seymchan  slices on my web site.

Best regards

Michel
www.caillou-noir.com
  -Message d'origine-
  De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] la part de harlan
trammell
  Envoye : mercredi 11 avril 2007 23:52
  A : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Objet : [meteorite-list] buying pallasites


  i have bought several russian pallasites that were mostly epoxy polished
surfaces. can anyone recomment a reputable seller that sell seymchan or
others that does NOT use fillers to make fake olivines?



  i will be gradually switching over to yahoo mail (it has 100 FREE megs of
storage). please cc to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [meteorite-list] Is EBAY bidding fixed?

[mckinney trammell]

N-A-A-A-H?! people actually SHILL bid on ebay? surely you jest?!

GREG LINDH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
To all,

I am new to EBAY and to meteorite collecting. I have purchased 13 
meteorites total. I've gotten most of them by bidding on EBAY. I've 
noticed that many times someone will bid for an item and continually bid the 
item up even though nobody is bidding against them. They may start out by 
bidding $10.00 for an item, then the same person raises the price to $30.00, 
then $50.00, then $80.00, etc., etc. They artificially and unnecessarily 
raise the price so that the item finally sells for a *much* higher price 
than it would have gone for if this hadn't been done.
Either the bidder is a moron or he is working with the seller to up the 
price.
Can anyone explain this phenomenon to me?

Greg Lindh 

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[meteorite-list] AD: Los Angeles and others

[Cj ..]

Hi All,

I just added a 60mg piece of Los Angeles to my sale page should anyone be 
interested.


http://crownnglorycollectibles.com/Meteorites.html

Thanks,

Cj

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Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Plutonic Angrite - NWA 4590 "Tamassint"

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Adam, List,

The real "clincher" for the Mars rocks actually 
being Mars rocks is the isotope ratios of incorporated
atmospheric gases. It's a clincher because we have
the data from our probes to Mars, data produced
by direct contact and from measurements made on 
the planet. Those ratios provide a unique "fingerprint"
of Mars. Nowhere else in the solar system has those
isotopes in those ratios. You find a rock with those 
fingerprints all over it, so to speak, you know that 
such a rock is a Mars rock. It's a QED, a Slam Dunk,
turn it over and it has "Made on Mars" stamped on
its bottom.

Likewise, even though we've had much less science
produced by contact with Venus, its argon isotope
ratios are  startling and unlike anywhere else. If you
or anybody finds a rock with argon ratios similar to,
or even close to, those odd proportions, you can slap
it down and say "Venus rock," and we will all nod our
heads and start wondering if we can afford the $42,000
per gram...

But, as Rob pointed out, the crying shame is that
we only flew by Mercury with one probe, decades
ago, never went back, never followed up, never even
photographed the entire surface, and know little more
now than we did 40 years ago when we did that. No
one will ever demonstrate Mercurian origin of anything
without having some data from Mercury with which to 
compare the putative stone. Nor should they.

We simply don't know enough about Mercury to
be able to identify any rock as having come from there,
or not. We don't even know enough about Mercury to
be able to say whether they serve beer. If they do, I
guess that it will be, like Britain, warm beer, or maybe,
considering the 0.37 AU orbit, hot beer.


Sterling K. Webb
-
- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Plutonic Angrite - NWA 4590 "Tamassint"


Dear  List,

I just want to express my views on this subject and
then tend to more pressing issues.

It is interesting to note that similar arguments were
presented when discussing SNCs. A lot of groups had a
hard time believing that these series of rocks
actually came from Mars. Now, you would be hard
pressed to find somebody that would argue that they
came from anywhere else.

As far as I know, a single argument discounting
Mercury as the origin for NWA 2999 was presented. This
argument makes assumptions based on NWA2999 being an
igneous rock. NWA 2999 was determined without a doubt
to be a metamorphic rock(interlocking grains with
triple junctions).  Furthermore, formulas used to
describe igneous processes here on Earth were used to
describe a plutonic rock from a different planetary
body as far as I can surmise.  I guess this would be
alright if the other planetary body was just like
Earth with the same gravity, atmospheric pressure,
water and so on.  It would have been nice if the
authors of this paper actually took  the time to
examine a piece NWA 2999.  I don't think they have
ever seen a piece of this meteorite.  All that would
have been required is to merely ask for a piece and
they would have been supplied.

As for it being too metal-rich, the metal was found to
be introduced by the impactor.

A great number of scientific heavyweights are listed
as authors and coauthors representing 100s of year of
combined experience so for now, they have my
attention.  A List debate will not suffice to sway my
opinion one way or another.  I think it best to keep
an open mind in regards to Mercury being the PB for
Angrites. Look what open minds did for the SNCs!

Save the Earth, It is the only planet that serves 
beer.

Adam







--- David Weir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello Sterling and hopeful Hermean collectors,
> 
> The angrites have FeO contents in the general range
> of ~25 wt%, so if 
> they are from Mercury this does not conform to your
> inverse iron core 
> ordering, unless the core of Mercury was not fully
> differentiated before 
> the impact-related dissemination occurred. Some
> angrites like NWA 2999 
> do contain too much iron to be consistent with
> representing a completely 
> differentiated body. As for the stable orbit, the
> iron cores of early 
> differentiated bodies which formed near Mercury and
> now stored in the 
> inner asteroid belt is a good point, although I was
> thinking about 
> possible Lagrange-like regions. Storage in the the
> inner asteroid belt 
> is definitely more reasonable.
> 
> For Rob, here is some CRE age info:
> 
> The results of CRE age studies (Eugster et al.,
> 2002) utilizing 
> cosmogenic nuclide data indicate that the CRE age of
> D'Orbigny (12.3 
> +/-0.9 m.y.) is significantly different from that of
> other angrites 
> studied: Sah 99555 (6.6 +/-0.8 m.y.), Asuka 881371
> (5.4 +/-0.7 m.y.), 
> Angra dos Reis (55.5 +/-1.2 m.y.), LEW 86010 (17.6
> +/-1.0 m.y.), and LEW 
> 87051 (~0.2 m.y.). All 

Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Plutonic Angrite - NWA 4590 "Tamassint"

[Adam Hupe]

Dear  List,

I just want to express my views on this subject and
then tend to more pressing issues.

It is interesting to note that similar arguments were
presented when discussing SNCs. A lot of groups had a
hard time believing that these series of rocks
actually came from Mars. Now, you would be hard
pressed to find somebody that would argue that they
came from anywhere else.

As far as I know, a single argument discounting
Mercury as the origin for NWA 2999 was presented. This
argument makes assumptions based on NWA2999 being an
igneous rock. NWA 2999 was determined without a doubt
to be a metamorphic rock(interlocking grains with
triple junctions).  Furthermore, formulas used to
describe igneous processes here on Earth were used to
describe a plutonic rock from a different planetary
body as far as I can surmise.  I guess this would be
alright if the other planetary body was just like
Earth with the same gravity, atmospheric pressure,
water and so on.  It would have been nice if the
authors of this paper actually took  the time to
examine a piece NWA 2999.  I don't think they have
ever seen a piece of this meteorite.  All that would
have been required is to merely ask for a piece and
they would have been supplied.

As for it being too metal-rich, the metal was found to
be introduced by the impactor.

A great number of scientific heavyweights are listed
as authors and coauthors representing 100s of year of
combined experience so for now, they have my
attention.  A List debate will not suffice to sway my
opinion one way or another.  I think it best to keep
an open mind in regards to Mercury being the PB for
Angrites. Look what open minds did for the SNCs!

Save the Earth, It is the only planet that serves 
beer.

Adam







--- David Weir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello Sterling and hopeful Hermean collectors,
> 
> The angrites have FeO contents in the general range
> of ~25 wt%, so if 
> they are from Mercury this does not conform to your
> inverse iron core 
> ordering, unless the core of Mercury was not fully
> differentiated before 
> the impact-related dissemination occurred. Some
> angrites like NWA 2999 
> do contain too much iron to be consistent with
> representing a completely 
> differentiated body. As for the stable orbit, the
> iron cores of early 
> differentiated bodies which formed near Mercury and
> now stored in the 
> inner asteroid belt is a good point, although I was
> thinking about 
> possible Lagrange-like regions. Storage in the the
> inner asteroid belt 
> is definitely more reasonable.
> 
> For Rob, here is some CRE age info:
> 
> The results of CRE age studies (Eugster et al.,
> 2002) utilizing 
> cosmogenic nuclide data indicate that the CRE age of
> D'Orbigny (12.3 
> +/-0.9 m.y.) is significantly different from that of
> other angrites 
> studied: Sah 99555 (6.6 +/-0.8 m.y.), Asuka 881371
> (5.4 +/-0.7 m.y.), 
> Angra dos Reis (55.5 +/-1.2 m.y.), LEW 86010 (17.6
> +/-1.0 m.y.), and LEW 
> 87051 (~0.2 m.y.). All or most of these angrites
> represent unique 
> ejection events on the angrite parent body. I don't
> have CRE data yet 
> for the latest finds.
> 
> David
> 
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>
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> 

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