[meteorite-list] Sweden fireball
Dear Listoids. Here's some more links to the bolide seen over southern Sweden Saturday night 08.06 PM: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article4204952.ab http://www.thelocal.se/16990/20090118/ A witness (according to the Swedish newspaper Sydsvenskan) said it looked like a giant welding flame rapidly travelling from North East towards South West. The obseration was done about 100 km East of Copenhagen. Strangely, I haven't seen any reports of noise or booms connected to the event. Although living in the southern part of Sweden (about 200 km NNE of Copenhagen), I missed the event :( Thomas Österberg __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MASSIVE fireball in Sweden this morning.
Hi Mike, The second word of your introduction I second. > Europeans, get to work on this! Not worth looking for. Denmark: "under s.36b of the Museum Law Act (1989)finds are "geological objects of unique scientific value" and must be delivered to a state museum. Under s.36b(3) the museum pays the finder a fee based on the market value adjusted for the speed and care taken by the finder and carrying out this obligation. Greenland, as part of Denmark has a similar rule..." (Schmitt et al. MAPS 37,2002). The funds of the Copenhagen museum for meteorite acquisitions are since years ZERO. They even have no funds to curate their meteorites there lege artis. Agpalilik - the recovery was the highlight in the annals of this institution, is kept open air in the court of the museum and suffered already heavy damage by humidity. In 50 years they haven't managed yet to built a little roof for a few hundred bucks to protect this iron from rain. Under these circumstances, a finder can't expect to be compensated in a timely and adequate manner. Btw. a market value can't be determined, because Danish meteorites can't be traded because of this law. (There were some brains involved in making that law.) (At least Denmark seems not to have added meteorites to their national UNESCO cultural heritage lists. Canada and Australia did so. All specimens of Cape York in the institutional collections in Canada and Australia, which don't have export papers, showing that they were once allowed to be removed from the country of find Greenland, have to be returned to the Danish state. Great that USA didn't make that mistake, to see Peary's mountain of iron rusting next to Agpalilik in the museum's court would break the hearts of all meteoriticists). Btw. the interpretation of the UNESCO convention of 1970 like Australia and Canada followed, is the exact opposite of that what the UNESCO working group on meteorites, consisting of the curators of London, New York, Paris and Budapest, and members of the UNESCO legal department recommended in their premilary work for the convention, starting in 1964 (concealed by Schmitt et al. in their article). Under these circumstances, noone will search for a meteorite on Danish territory. Hopefully it felt in Sweden. Best Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Michael Farmer Gesendet: Sonntag, 18. Januar 2009 01:08 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] MASSIVE fireball in Sweden this morning. http://www.expressen.se/ HOLY SHIT! I just got a panicked call from a friend of mine in Sweden that a massive fireball was seen from near Kvarnby (near Malmo) and caught on camera at ~0800 this morning. It was toward the North Sea, likely impact in North Sea or Denmark near Copenhagen. This could have fallen in Denmark/Sweden, or the North Sea. Everyone should see this fireball, every bit as large if not larger than the Canada fireball. More reports to come, Europeans, get to work on this! Michael Farmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fw: [Meteorite News] Moroc Meteorite Fall
Dear List, I will attempt to post to the Meteorite News Website all current breaking meteorite news and events. I am just learning about how to publish on this new site so bear with me IF errors or problems arise. Anyone that wishes to supply breaking Meteorite News for ASAP publishing please contact me off list. Thank you. Dirk Ross...Tokyo Coming Soon: I will try to catch up on all of the late 2008 and now 2009 news. more about Moroc Fall Tok, Alaska Canadian Fall and Recovery http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ > Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 9:22 PM > NEW FALL in MOROC 20DEC08:Tamdaght (Provisory > name)Ouarzazate Province, > Morocco31° 05' N, 7° 08' WFell: 20 December 2008, > 22h37Ordinary > chondrite (H4 or H5)Classification & declaration > pendingMass (g): > 2649Pieces: ManyInfo: Main mass, Léa & Philippe > Thomas.A type specimen > was sent to UPVI which is going to make the classification > and the > declaration.Of course here, there is no totality of this > fall, the last > reliable information indicates that two stones were found. > The most > important in a small crater from which arise all the > fragments which we > put on sale. The other one smashed against a rock face > breaking the > stone in one thousand fragments. Both stones add up > approximately 35 kg > and nothing else was found at the moment.The stone which > formed a small > crater fell to 12 kilometers of Tamdaght. Photos and new > information > will come soon.At the moment, it's raining on the > region and > regrettably if other stones finish by beings found, they > will be > already well weathered. All the fragments which we sell > were found a > little time after the fall and are of an extreme freshness. > Note: On > the web, some dealers of meteorites tell that hundreds even > of > thousands of kilograms of this meteorite were found, > it's absolutely > wrong.Un échantillon type a été envoyé a l’UPVI qui > va faire la > classification et la déclaration.Bien sûr, ici il n’y a > pas la totalité > de cette chute, les dernières informations fiables > signalent que deux > pierres ont été trouvées. La plus importante dans un > petit cratère dont > sont issus tous les fragments que nous mettons en vente. > L’autre s’est > fracassée contre une paroi rocheuse brisant la pierre en > mille > morceaux. Les deux pierres totalisent environ 35 kg et rien > d’autre n’a > été trouvé pour l’instant.La pierre qui a formé un > petit cratère est > tombée à 12 kilomètres de Tamdaght. Des photos et de > nouvelles > informations viendront bientôt.En ce moment, il pleut sur > la région et > malheureusement si d'autres pierres finissent par > êtres trouvées, elles > seront déjà bien altérées. Tous les fragments que nous > vendons ont été > trouvés peu de temps après la chute et sont d'une > extrême > fraîcheur.Note : Sur Internet, des vendeurs de > météorites racontent que > des centaines voire des milliers de kilogrammes de cette > météorite ont > été trouvés, c'est absolument faux.Al Massae > newspaper (28 December > 2008)Traduction française de l'article paru dans le > quotidien Al Massae > du 28 décembre 2008Un corps mystérieux a éclairé le > ciel de Marrakech > puis s’est écrasé dans la montagne en provocant un > léger tremblement de > terreLes habitants pensent que c’est un corps > extraterrestre alors un > chercheur en astronomie réfute cette idéeUne boule de feu > est apparue > dans la nuit éclairant le ciel des alentours de la ville > de Marrakech, > et se déplaçait selon une trajectoire horizontale. Elle > est allée vers > la zone d’Ait Ourir et Tahanoute avant de s’écraser > sur la montagne > dans la région de Loukaimden provoquant une explosion qui > a secoué le > sol.Cette scène n’était pas extraite d’un film de > science fiction, mais > la scène qui s’était déroulée la nuit de samedi > dernier, provoquant un > état de panique au sein de la population qui y avait > assisté.Selon des > sources concordantes des communes de Ait Ourir et > Tahanoute, on raconte > qu’aux alentours de 22h37 la nuit de samedi dernier, un > flash de > lumière blanche a traversé le ciel de la région pour > finir sa course > sur une montagne qui se situe entre les deux régions de > Tahanoute et > Loukaimden.Ces mêmes sources ont ajouté qu’au moment de > la collision, > une déflagration semblable au grondement du tonnerre a > été entendue > suivie d’une légère secousse sismique.Un témoin de > Tahanoute, > travaillant comme gardien de nuit dans un des vergers > d’Ait Ourir, a > décrit le corps étranger comme étant un avion qui > brûlait en se > référant au bruit provoqué par l’objet lors de son > passage au dessus de > sa tête. Selon lui, la course de l’objet dans le ciel a > duré près de 3 > minutes avant que celui-ci ne disparaisse en direction de > la commune de > Tahanoute.Pour un autre témoin de Tahanoute l’objet > mystérieux est > décrit comme une boule de feu qui ressemble à «un > météore», il a > précisé que celle-ci illuminait les toits
Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
Good compare Martin. Really nothing suspicious. 11:11 falls Except the TKW :) Zag 1998 175 kg El Idrissa 1998 10 kg Djoumine 1999 10 kg Beni M'hira 2001 19 kg Bensour 2002 45 kg Oum Dreyga 2003 17 kg Maigatari-Danduma 2004 4.63 kg Benguerir 2004 25 kg Bassikounou 2006 29.56 kg Chergach 2007 100 kg And now the new possible fall. many kg = 434kg Europe: Ourique 1998 20 kg Leighlinbridge 1999 271 g Moravka 2000 633 g San Michele 2002 237 g Neuschwanstein 2002 6.19 kg Alby sur Cheran 2002 252 g Villalbeto 2004 3.5 kg Moss 2006 3.76 kg Puerto Lapice 2007 500 g Romanian Fall 2008few kg -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
ups, ofcourse here is total TKW ~35kg Europe: Ourique 1998 20 kg Leighlinbridge 1999 271 g Moravka 2000 633 g San Michele 2002 237 g Neuschwanstein 2002 6.19 kg Alby sur Cheran 2002 252 g Villalbeto 2004 3.5 kg Moss 2006 3.76 kg Puerto Lapice 2007 500 g Romanian Fall 2008few kg -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Sweden? Fireball
Hello Listoids, the fireball was also seen in the northern part of Germany. Here is a small report, in german language: http://nachrichten.t-online.de/c/17/40/62/72/17406272.html They guess that the meteorite felt in the baltic sea. Cheers, Carsten __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
Please don't misunderstand me... I just said there was reason to be suspicious from a statistical point of view, and of course there is an obvious financial motive. But I was not saying that I thought any of the fall stories were false, since I never even tried to assess them. So let's see if there is consensus to be found here on these recent falls. I did a simple reading of the fall accounts and used google scholar to search for cosmogenic nuclide or other supporting data. Here are my zeroth order ratings of each fall story: Chergach - highly likely Bassikounou - highly likely Benguerir - probable Beni M'hira - probable Bensour - questionable Oum Dreyga - questionable The new one - nothing to evaluate Maigatari-Danduma - ignore since it isn't really in the NWA region Bensour is such a weak story that I'm leaning towards changing it from a fall to a find in my database, which is basically what the MetBull article also said. I'm not even sure how it got listed as a fall. Do any of you take issue with this? The Oum Dreyga story also has strange elements. The witnesses saw it "falling on ... [the] mountains," which probably means that if there was a real fall, it was very distant. The fact that many of the stones were weathered also raises my doubts. So I rate this as weak. Anybody want to take the stand on Oum Dreyga's behalf? Or argue against any of the ones I called probable or highly likely? If two are really finds and one is eliminated because it is really not in this region, then we are left with 4 in the 2000s decade, plus the new one which remains to be seen. Four is certainly a more palatable number than eight from a blind statistical point of view, neglecting other sociological factors. Jeff Dr. Svend Buhl wrote: Interesting debate. Reminds me on the good old days of the Acedemie Francaise, the days before Biot and Chladni, where scientists doubted the accounts of local eyewitnesses on rocks falling from the skies for sociological reasons. As far as I am concerned, I still trust the people who measured e.g. the cosmogenic radionuclides of the meteorites produced by these recent falls. I absolutely doubt that the Swiss or French labs who worked on these stones made up their results just to make them fit the newspaper reports and eyewitness accounts. Svend Buhl - Original Message - From: "Jeff Grossman" To: "Meteorite-list" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question Martin and list, Actually, there is something suspicious. Northwest Africa (the countries you listed plus Western Sahara and Tunisia) has seen between 0 and 3 falls per decade from the 1900s through the 1980s. The 1990s saw 6, and the 2000s have now got 8. There is no parallel increase in the rest of Africa, which in fact has been steadily declining in fall rates since the 1940s. Europe has also been declining since the 1930s (in fall rates), as has North America. I think northwest Africa is the only place in the world that is seeing any kind of increase in rate, and it has been dramatic, tripling in the last decade. The are various sociological reasons why this increase might have happened, which we can argue about. But there certainly IS something to raise ones eyebrows. Jeff Martin Altmann wrote: Hi Ryan, it's because of the iron mountain in Atlas, which still has to be found and which attracts with his magnetic field all iron-bearing lumps from space. No. Take a World map, hold little Europe (forget a little bit about Scandinavia), hold it against that NWA region, Algeria, Mali, Niger, Morocco, Mauretania And let's count the falls: Let's start with Zag 1998. NWA-Regions: Zag 1998 El Idrissa 1998 Djoumine 1999 Beni M'hira 2001 Bensour 2002 Oum Dreyga 2003 Maigatari-Danduma 2004 Benguerir 2004 Bassikounou 2006 Chergach 2007 And now the new possible fall. Europe: Ourique 1998 Leighlinbridge 1999 Moravka 2000 San Michele 2002 Neuschwanstein 2002 Alby sur Cheran 2002 Villalbeto 2004 Moss 2006 Puerto Lapice 2007 Romanian Fall 2008 11 : 11. So nothing suspicious. USA had 7 India 10 Best! Martin Ok Folks, I am curious to know why there are so many witnessed (recovered) meteorite falls in Northwest Africa as opposed to anywhere else in the world. Is there a good logical and/or scientifc explanation for this?.. or just a coincidence? I understand that some "falls" simply turn out to be a case of Nomadic lies in an attempt to liquidate (recycle) old material, but what about the others? Perhpas it has something to do with it's geographical location in relation to..? And yes, I do understand these people spend countless hours outdoors, in the desert, ect. but.. What are your thoughts? Ryan __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mail
Re: [meteorite-list] Nice looking piece of the moon
NWA 2995 Paired ? So what is the properly classified number, I wonder? Full slice of CLASSIFIED NWA 2995 photo with no weathering cracks. Interesting.: http://www.catchafallingstar.com/nwa2995/nwa2995115c.JPG Smaller specimens of NWA 2995 and photos of the mass before cutting: http://www.catchafallingstar.com/nwa2995/nwa2995sale.htm Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com From: Darren Garrison Subject: [meteorite-list] Nice looking piece of the moon To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 2:06 AM For some reason, auctions from a site are showing up on Google news results now. Here's one of them that came up, worth looking at for the photo of this nice lunite slice: http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6125349 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Swedish Fireballs with pasta and sauce
Hi Martin and list, The Danish law (and others like it) are excellent examples of human arrogance. No man or government ever "owns" a meteorite. We are only temporary caretakers of these cosmic relics. The lifespan of the most enduring Earthly government is but an eye blink on the cosmic timeline. I always laugh when I consider the hubris of men, and the concept of a government owning all meteorites that happen to fall on a piece of land that the same government stole from someone else is the height of human arrogance. Last time I checked, the Danish (or anyone for that matter) were not the original inhabitants of the land they now claim. Ownership of the Earth below our feet or the rocks from the sky above is a privilege granted by the Goddess of Chance - and nothing more. When the weak body of man or the flimsy apparatus of the state crumbles into dust like the monuments of Ozymandias, these 4+ billion year old relics will continue on with their strange journey - regardless of what fool signs a piece of paper and claims ownership. I now have 52 localities in my collectiondo I own them? No. I am just lucky enough that Fate placed them in my loving hands, so I may look after them until it comes time for me to rejoin the stars. Laws like these (that Martin mentioned) hurt everyone and benefit no one. Regards and clear skies, MikeG . Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .. Message: 11 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:17:16 +0100 From: "Martin Altmann" Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MASSIVE fireball in Sweden this morning. To: Message-ID: <002101c97966$b485c320$177f2...@name86d88d87e2> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Mike, The second word of your introduction I second. > Europeans, get to work on this! Not worth looking for. Denmark: "under s.36b of the Museum Law Act (1989)finds are "geological objects of unique scientific value" and must be delivered to a state museum. Under s.36b(3) the museum pays the finder a fee based on the market value adjusted for the speed and care taken by the finder and carrying out this obligation. Greenland, as part of Denmark has a similar rule..." (Schmitt et al. MAPS 37,2002). The funds of the Copenhagen museum for meteorite acquisitions are since years ZERO. They even have no funds to curate their meteorites there lege artis. Agpalilik - the recovery was the highlight in the annals of this institution, is kept open air in the court of the museum and suffered already heavy damage by humidity. In 50 years they haven't managed yet to built a little roof for a few hundred bucks to protect this iron from rain. Under these circumstances, a finder can't expect to be compensated in a timely and adequate manner. Btw. a market value can't be determined, because Danish meteorites can't be traded because of this law. (There were some brains involved in making that law.) (At least Denmark seems not to have added meteorites to their national UNESCO cultural heritage lists. Canada and Australia did so. All specimens of Cape York in the institutional collections in Canada and Australia, which don't have export papers, showing that they were once allowed to be removed from the country of find Greenland, have to be returned to the Danish state. Great that USA didn't make that mistake, to see Peary's mountain of iron rusting next to Agpalilik in the museum's court would break the hearts of all meteoriticists). Btw. the interpretation of the UNESCO convention of 1970 like Australia and Canada followed, is the exact opposite of that what the UNESCO working group on meteorites, consisting of the curators of London, New York, Paris and Budapest, and members of the UNESCO legal department recommended in their premilary work for the convention, starting in 1964 (concealed by Schmitt et al. in their article). Under these circumstances, noone will search for a meteorite on Danish territory. Hopefully it felt in Sweden. Best Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Havana
Hello Michael G. and List, Maybe this excerpt from Buchwald is helpful, too: BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 2, pp. 635-637: Havana, Illinois, U.S.A. 40°20'N, 90°3'W Fine octahedrite, Of. Bandwidth about 0.35 mm. Annealed kamacite. Group IIIC. 11.4% Ni, above 0.2% P, 20.5 ppm Ga, 21.6 ppm Ge, 0.3 ppm Ir. Artificially annealed and cold-worked. History "In the summer of *1945*, members of the Illinois State Museum under the direction of Thorne Deuel, Director of the Museum, excavated a group of Indian burial mounds in the Havana, Mason County area. Burial No. 10 in Mound No.9 of this group yielded 22 rounded bead-like objects, composed of strongly oxidized iron, together with slightly more than 1000 ground shell and pearl or pearl slug beads. As the burial was evidently prehistoric and of Hopewellian age, it was at once conjectured that the iron might be of meteoric origin" (Grogan 1948). Two complete rounded specimens and two fragments were thoroughly examined by Grogan who presented an exhaustive description and concluded that the beads were actually worked meteoritic material. Arnold & Libby (1951), who examined wood from the same Mound No. 9, found a C-14 age of 2,336±250 years, which confirmed the Hopewellian age. The Illinois burials are thus of approximately the same age as the burials discussed under Hopewell Mounds, situated 600 km farther east in Ohio, see page 656. Wasson & Schaudy (1971) analyzed the material and found it similar to Mungindi, belonging to group IIIC. Collections: Washington (12 g); Illinois State Museum. Description The small iron-bearing masses had cylindrical to flattened globular shapes and maximum transverse diam¬eters of approximately 3/16 to 5/8 of an inch. Dr. Deuel and his associates first advanced the hypothesis that they were beads after observing that in the burial the metallic objects alternated with one or two disc-shaped, cut and ground shell beads and that their sizes varied in a manner indicating that all had been graded to size on a string. Best from rainy Germany, Bernd __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RFS Picture, January 18, 2009
Hello Twink, John, Michael J., and List, http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_18_2009.html Oh yes, those were the years! Thanks for sharing part 1 and looking forward to part 2 of those early days when your meticulous search of the strewn field helped outline the true extension and the age of the Gold Basin strewn field. Best, Bernd __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] nwa 869 (AD)
Hi list.I am looking for an endcut of NWA 869.A 300 to 500 gram endcut.Please off list.Please your best low price. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/";>http://chicagometeorites.net/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MASSIVE fireball in Sweden this morning.
Hi Martin, Is there a meteorite society/club in Denmark? If there is, maybe its members can "pool" their money together to pay for a roof over Agpalilik. The bad economy might not allow for this right now, but maybe in a couple years. If we had a large meteorite sitting outside without a roof here in the US, one or more clubs/societies would've quickly donated money and labor to build a roof over it. But maybe rules and laws prohibit that in other countries? > Not worth looking for. Even if a meteorite hunter won't get any monetary reward (or even the meteorite) from finding it, that is no reason not to look for it. As long as it doesn't cost more money than he/she can spend, the thrill of the hunt is exciting. Two weekends ago I looked for evidence of meteorites from the Penrose, Colorado fireball. I drove down to Penrose from Superior (near Boulder, Colorado) and went to two different places. The first place that I went to was west of the town. I was able to walk around there because there weren't a lot of houses. I only saw sandstone, so any meteorites would've been obvious. :-) I then drove around half of the streets in town and looked for evidence (dark rocks on the sides of the roads) but I didn't see any. I spent about 6 hours on this trip (it was a Saturday) and spent about $100 (mostly on fuel for my Jeep). Even though I didn't find anything, it was still exciting and I said to myself "It was a fun, small vacation, so it was worth the $100 that I spent on it". I didn't get a reward (money or meteorites), but I did see scenery that I had not seen for a few years. Maybe there is a meteorite lover near the location where the Sweden fireball was last assumed to be above land (assuming it fell into the Baltic Sea). If that person is very close to that location, it won't cost him/her a lot of money to look around for a few hours and maybe ask a few local residents if they saw or heard anything. I think it's worth a try if it doesn't cost too much. Regards, Bob L. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 5:17 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MASSIVE fireball in Sweden this morning. Hi Mike, The second word of your introduction I second. > Europeans, get to work on this! Not worth looking for. Denmark: "under s.36b of the Museum Law Act (1989)finds are "geological objects of unique scientific value" and must be delivered to a state museum. Under s.36b(3) the museum pays the finder a fee based on the market value adjusted for the speed and care taken by the finder and carrying out this obligation. Greenland, as part of Denmark has a similar rule..." (Schmitt et al. MAPS 37,2002). The funds of the Copenhagen museum for meteorite acquisitions are since years ZERO. They even have no funds to curate their meteorites there lege artis. Agpalilik - the recovery was the highlight in the annals of this institution, is kept open air in the court of the museum and suffered already heavy damage by humidity. In 50 years they haven't managed yet to built a little roof for a few hundred bucks to protect this iron from rain. Under these circumstances, a finder can't expect to be compensated in a timely and adequate manner. Btw. a market value can't be determined, because Danish meteorites can't be traded because of this law. (There were some brains involved in making that law.) (At least Denmark seems not to have added meteorites to their national UNESCO cultural heritage lists. Canada and Australia did so. All specimens of Cape York in the institutional collections in Canada and Australia, which don't have export papers, showing that they were once allowed to be removed from the country of find Greenland, have to be returned to the Danish state. Great that USA didn't make that mistake, to see Peary's mountain of iron rusting next to Agpalilik in the museum's court would break the hearts of all meteoriticists). Btw. the interpretation of the UNESCO convention of 1970 like Australia and Canada followed, is the exact opposite of that what the UNESCO working group on meteorites, consisting of the curators of London, New York, Paris and Budapest, and members of the UNESCO legal department recommended in their premilary work for the convention, starting in 1964 (concealed by Schmitt et al. in their article). Under these circumstances, noone will search for a meteorite on Danish territory. Hopefully it felt in Sweden. Best Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bizarre fall date
Hi - Given the accuracy of archaeological dating in 1948, you probably want to be real suspicious of the published -300 (300 BCE) fall date. Another item to keep in mind: often everything was assumed to be Brenham, and that likely was not so. Bernd sent us (if I remember) that link to the paper on Ohio "Hopewell" meteoritic artifacts, which showed that they were different. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 45
Mike, In response to the below comment, I'd like to say I'll take those suckers off your hands for ya... ;) "I now have 52 localities in my collectiondo I own them? No." Law is law and possession is 9/10 of it! And though human beings, moral dogma and law are insignificant when compared to a hugely ancient universe, it would be naive to think that you could not or should not own anything of value regardless of how little time we are here. According to your philosophy no one really owns anything, and countries, nations, governments, businesses, and other legal entities, including people don't really own their land, their house, their car, or the TV sitting in their living room, but in fact it is owned by the cosmos itself. I get the philosophy behind it but it isn't as powerful as possession and a humans primal need for ownership of property. Ownership of something is physical, natural, and inherent. It's not an intangible philosophy. Tell that to Russia, China, Iran, or Israel for that matter. Hell, tell it to any of the countries on this planet including the US government. The philosophy is right, in the end it really won't matter. But today it does... Regards, Eric Subject: [meteorite-list] Swedish Fireballs with pasta and sauce From: Michael Gilmer Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 07:44:20 -0800 (PST) To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Hi Martin and list, The Danish law (and others like it) are excellent examples of human arrogance. No man or government ever "owns" a meteorite. We are only temporary caretakers of these cosmic relics. The lifespan of the most enduring Earthly government is but an eye blink on the cosmic timeline. I always laugh when I consider the hubris of men, and the concept of a government owning all meteorites that happen to fall on a piece of land that the same government stole from someone else is the height of human arrogance. Last time I checked, the Danish (or anyone for that matter) were not the original inhabitants of the land they now claim. Ownership of the Earth below our feet or the rocks from the sky above is a privilege granted by the Goddess of Chance - and nothing more. When the weak body of man or the flimsy apparatus of the state crumbles into dust like the monuments of Ozymandias, these 4+ billion year old relics will continue on with their strange journey - regardless of what fool signs a piece of paper and claims ownership. I now have 52 localities in my collectiondo I own them? No. I am just lucky enough that Fate placed them in my loving hands, so I may look after them until it comes time for me to rejoin the stars. Laws like these (that Martin mentioned) hurt everyone and benefit no one. Regards and clear skies, MikeG __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Havana Illinois and Florida finds - Indian connection
Hi Bernd! Thanks for sharing the interesting back-story on Havana. Ever since reading Burke's Cosmic Debris, I have been fascinated by those meteorites that have connections with indigenous peoples. It makes me think of that old movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy", about a bushman who "finds" a coke bottle dropped from an airplane and considers it an object of reverence and worship. Actually he was struck on the head with it - the ultimate soda bottle hammer! But, in my mind I see a meteorite and not the coke bottle, and I wonder what ancient cultures must have thought of these heavenly gifts. These cultures were generally agrarian, animist, and held a deep innate respect for nature and it's wonders. How magical and supernatural a meteorite must have been in their eyes. I never tire of reading those stories. :) Regards and clear skies, MikeG . Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .. Message: 4 Date: 18 Jan 2009 16:41:59 UT From: bernd.pa...@paulinet.de Subject: [meteorite-list] Havana To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Michael G. and List, Maybe this excerpt from Buchwald is helpful, too: BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 2, pp. 635-637: Havana, Illinois, U.S.A. 40?20'N, 90?3'W Fine octahedrite, Of. Bandwidth about 0.35 mm. Annealed kamacite. Group IIIC. 11.4% Ni, above 0.2% P, 20.5 ppm Ga, 21.6 ppm Ge, 0.3 ppm Ir. Artificially annealed and cold-worked. History "In the summer of *1945*, members of the Illinois State Museum under the direction of Thorne Deuel, Director of the Museum, excavated a group of Indian burial mounds in the Havana, Mason County area. Burial No. 10 in Mound No.9 of this group yielded 22 rounded bead-like objects, composed of strongly oxidized iron, together with slightly more than 1000 ground shell and pearl or pearl slug beads. As the burial was evidently prehistoric and of Hopewellian age, it was at once conjectured that the iron might be of meteoric origin" (Grogan 1948). Two complete rounded specimens and two fragments were thoroughly examined by Grogan who presented an exhaustive description and concluded that the beads were actually worked meteoritic material. Arnold & Libby (1951), who examined wood from the same Mound No. 9, found a C-14 age of 2,336?250 years, which confirmed the Hopewellian age. The Illinois burials are thus of approximately the same age as the burials discussed under Hopewell Mounds, situated 600 km farther east in Ohio, see page 656. Wasson & Schaudy (1971) analyzed the material and found it similar to Mungindi, belonging to group IIIC. Collections: Washington (12 g); Illinois State Museum. Description The small iron-bearing masses had cylindrical to flattened globular shapes and maximum transverse diam?eters of approximately 3/16 to 5/8 of an inch. Dr. Deuel and his associates first advanced the hypothesis that they were beads after observing that in the burial the metallic objects alternated with one or two disc-shaped, cut and ground shell beads and that their sizes varied in a manner indicating that all had been graded to size on a string. Best from rainy Germany, Bernd __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Update: Asteroid 136849 approaching (over 1 km indiameter)
Hi Bob, sorry I didn't catch this sooner, and wish I could have helped more so you could see probable biggest ordinary chondrite of your life. I was skunked and I'm a bit unhappy at the moment for losing the sleep. I don't know where you live, but assuming it is close to lat. 39 Deg 56' 23"; long. W. 105° 8' 24", the asteroid will have dropped to the 14.5 magnitude and rise tonight at 01:25 AM MST. The 3/8's of a Moon will follow at 01:59 AM MST. So, you are probably out of luck, even if an accurate finders chart existed. Due to the closeness of the asteroid you really ought to specify where you are, and when you are observing (I bet you can easily get an error of several minutes from different positions on Earth). On top of that, there is uncertainty in the position even for a fixed single observer, as this is really pushing the orbital elements to an extreme (though after this pass, indubitably Arecibo and Goldstone observations and the resulting orbital refinements will make this more plausible in the near future). The best bet as this point is to beg, borrow or steal the combination for the Denver Astronomical Club's dark sky site East of your metropolis, where these observations now could be made with a good telescope with star drive and lots of luck or experience or both. If you have a planetarium program, you might try these orbital elements (they are not guaranteed , I'm very tired!): Epoch: 2454856.5 (2009/1/25 0:00:00) o (argument of perihelion): 97.46551 O (longitude of ascending node): 110.94293 i (inclination): 7.78920 e (eccentricity): 0.5782656 a (semimajor axis): 1.4916402 AU M (mean anomaly): 336.59998 T (perihelion date): 2454234.35924 (2007/5/13 20:37:18) q (perihelion distance): 0.62908 AU H (mean visual magnitude): 17.62 G (magnitude slope factor): 0.15 In my first post I gave the link to orbital elements that would have allowed you to generate your personal star chart in any worthy planetarium program, I'm sorry you missed them. The second post then listed what Goldstone and Arecibo are using, I believe, or at least coordinates). By now something like that which is of questionable help for star-hopping but shows the asteroid being clobbered by Hercules' club (near Club star: Kornephoros) at exactly 3:00AM MST (Estimated Asteroid position: RA 16 32 44, Dec. +19 22 56, mag. 14.5) and then bonking the Hero of song and story's constellation directly in the head (Head star: Ras Algethi), 20 hours later: www.diogenite.com/136849SUP.jpg Note, while the distance has increased only about 15% from closest approach, due to the Sunlit portion (phase) the major fading is taking place. This can be visualized better by referring to the orbital diagram I gave a link to in the first post where the orbital elements are found. Best wishes and Great Skies, hope I didn't make a mistake as if anyone would really try this, considering Pluto will be twice as bright at the time mentioned than the asteroid that is the object of my recent crush... Doug -Original Message- From: Bob Loeffler To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 6:32 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Update: Asteroid 136849 approaching (over 1 km indiameter) Hi all, Does anyone have coordinates (or better yet, a star chart image) of where this asteroid is located? Thanks, Bob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of mexicod...@aim.com Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 3:58 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Update: Asteroid 136849 approaching (over 1 km indiameter) Dear List, Drat's, I was completely rained out and will be again tonight, and then it head a little too "north" for me. Did anyone see this potential hammer asteroid inchworming from Ursa Major past Arcturus and towards Corona Borealis (actually it is thought to be a non-carbonaceous stony asteroid)? There is still plenty of time for the next two or three days to see it as it fades to Pluto brightness from its current status a being visible through big binoculars or amateur scopes. The actual closest approach is on January 17 at a couple minutes past 17:00 London time. T here is no chance this asteroid will hit Earth anytime soon, but is a good illustration of what is being done to track potentially Earth-threatening objects. Both the Puerto Rico's Arecibo ( http://www.naic.edu/public/the_telescope.htm ) and the Mojave Goldstone dishes ( http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/dsn/goldstone/ ) Gigantic Radio telescopes, on the NASA/NSF/UStaxpayer payroll, are dedicating serious time to it to figure out its shape, and whatever else they can glean, which while an academic question in this century, could help with strategies to deflect it if necessary at a time in the far future...Typically I think up to ten asteroids monthly (all PHA's, potentially hazardous) a
[meteorite-list] new tamdaught moroccan fall
Good evening list.For those of you who cannot wait to get a piece of the new moroccan fall,tamdaught,phillpe thomas has some fragments on ebay right now.I just bought a 24 gram fragment.It looks very fresh!I hope to get mine before tucson.I will bring it with me for show.It looks great. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/";>http://chicagometeorites.net/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] new tamdaught moroccan fall
I am going to go out on a limb here and bet that you trade it off before you even receive it. Anyone out there want to be against me? Don Rawlings --- On Sun, 1/18/09, steve arnold wrote: From: steve arnold Subject: [meteorite-list] new tamdaught moroccan fall To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 7:08 PM Good evening list.For those of you who cannot wait to get a piece of the new moroccan fall,tamdaught,phillpe thomas has some fragments on ebay right now.I just bought a 24 gram fragment.It looks very fresh!I hope to get mine before tucson.I will bring it with me for show.It looks great. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/";>http://chicagometeorites.net/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
Hi Jeff, I believe your data about the story but I am surprised. I have to say that the pieces of Bensour I received are so pristine and rust free, both crust and interior, that of all the 'falls' listed I would have guessed that Bensour would have been the LEAST likely to have sat around any length of time after it fell. Just an observation. Cheers, Jim Baxter > Please don't misunderstand me... I just said there was reason to be > suspicious from a statistical point of view, and of course there is an > obvious financial motive. But I was not saying that I thought any of > the fall stories were false, since I never even tried to assess them. > > So let's see if there is consensus to be found here on these recent > falls. I did a simple reading of the fall accounts and used google > scholar to search for cosmogenic nuclide or other supporting data. Here > are my zeroth order ratings of each fall story: > > Chergach - highly likely > Bassikounou - highly likely > Benguerir - probable > Beni M'hira - probable > Bensour - questionable > Oum Dreyga - questionable > The new one - nothing to evaluate > Maigatari-Danduma - ignore since it isn't really in the NWA region > > Bensour is such a weak story that I'm leaning towards changing it from a > fall to a find in my database, which is basically what the MetBull > article also said. I'm not even sure how it got listed as a fall. Do any > of you take issue with this? > > The Oum Dreyga story also has strange elements. The witnesses saw it > "falling on ... [the] mountains," which probably means that if there was > a real fall, it was very distant. The fact that many of the stones > were weathered also raises my doubts. So I rate this as weak. Anybody > want to take the stand on Oum Dreyga's behalf? Or argue against any of > the ones I called probable or highly likely? > > If two are really finds and one is eliminated because it is really not > in this region, then we are left with 4 in the 2000s decade, plus the > new one which remains to be seen. Four is certainly a more palatable > number than eight from a blind statistical point of view, neglecting > other sociological factors. > > Jeff > > Dr. Svend Buhl wrote: >> Interesting debate. Reminds me on the good old days of the Acedemie >> Francaise, the days before Biot and Chladni, where scientists doubted >> the accounts of local eyewitnesses on rocks falling from the skies for >> sociological reasons. >> >> As far as I am concerned, I still trust the people who measured e.g. >> the cosmogenic radionuclides of the meteorites produced by these >> recent falls. I absolutely doubt that the Swiss or French labs who >> worked on these stones made up their results just to make them fit the >> newspaper reports and eyewitness accounts. >> >> Svend Buhl >> >> >> - Original Message - From: "Jeff Grossman" >> To: "Meteorite-list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question >> >> >>> Martin and list, >>> >>> Actually, there is something suspicious. Northwest Africa (the >>> countries you listed plus Western Sahara and Tunisia) has seen >>> between 0 and 3 falls per decade from the 1900s through the 1980s. >>> The 1990s saw 6, and the 2000s have now got 8. There is no parallel >>> increase in the rest of Africa, which in fact has been steadily >>> declining in fall rates since the 1940s. Europe has also been >>> declining since the 1930s (in fall rates), as has North America. I >>> think northwest Africa is the only place in the world that is seeing >>> any kind of increase in rate, and it has been dramatic, tripling in >>> the last decade. >>> >>> The are various sociological reasons why this increase might have >>> happened, which we can argue about. But there certainly IS something >>> to raise ones eyebrows. >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> Martin Altmann wrote: Hi Ryan, it's because of the iron mountain in Atlas, which still has to be found and which attracts with his magnetic field all iron-bearing lumps from space. No. Take a World map, hold little Europe (forget a little bit about Scandinavia), hold it against that NWA region, Algeria, Mali, Niger, Morocco, Mauretania And let's count the falls: Let's start with Zag 1998. NWA-Regions: Zag 1998 El Idrissa 1998 Djoumine 1999 Beni M'hira 2001 Bensour 2002 Oum Dreyga 2003 Maigatari-Danduma 2004 Benguerir 2004 Bassikounou 2006 Chergach 2007 And now the new possible fall. Europe: Ourique 1998 Leighlinbridge 1999 Moravka 2000 San Michele 2002 Neuschwanstein 2002 Alby sur Cheran 2002 Villalbeto 2004 Moss 2006 Puerto Lapice 2007 Romanian Fall 2008 11 : 11. So nothing suspicious. USA had 7 India 10 Best! Martin
Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
Jim & All, I'd have to agree, Jim, for quite a good many Bensour AND Oum Dreyga individuals. The pieces I've seen with some oxidation seemed to have hit the market at substantially later dates, which would be consistent with having been recovered at some later point...perhaps. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of jbaxter...@pol.net Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 9:33 PM To: jgross...@usgs.gov Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question Hi Jeff, I believe your data about the story but I am surprised. I have to say that the pieces of Bensour I received are so pristine and rust free, both crust and interior, that of all the 'falls' listed I would have guessed that Bensour would have been the LEAST likely to have sat around any length of time after it fell. Just an observation. Cheers, Jim Baxter > Please don't misunderstand me... I just said there was reason to be > suspicious from a statistical point of view, and of course there is an > obvious financial motive. But I was not saying that I thought any of > the fall stories were false, since I never even tried to assess them. > > So let's see if there is consensus to be found here on these recent > falls. I did a simple reading of the fall accounts and used google > scholar to search for cosmogenic nuclide or other supporting data. > Here are my zeroth order ratings of each fall story: > > Chergach - highly likely > Bassikounou - highly likely > Benguerir - probable > Beni M'hira - probable > Bensour - questionable > Oum Dreyga - questionable > The new one - nothing to evaluate > Maigatari-Danduma - ignore since it isn't really in the NWA region > > Bensour is such a weak story that I'm leaning towards changing it from > a fall to a find in my database, which is basically what the MetBull > article also said. I'm not even sure how it got listed as a fall. Do > any of you take issue with this? > > The Oum Dreyga story also has strange elements. The witnesses saw it > "falling on ... [the] mountains," which probably means that if there > was a real fall, it was very distant. The fact that many of the > stones were weathered also raises my doubts. So I rate this as weak. > Anybody want to take the stand on Oum Dreyga's behalf? Or argue > against any of the ones I called probable or highly likely? > > If two are really finds and one is eliminated because it is really not > in this region, then we are left with 4 in the 2000s decade, plus the > new one which remains to be seen. Four is certainly a more palatable > number than eight from a blind statistical point of view, neglecting > other sociological factors. > > Jeff > > Dr. Svend Buhl wrote: >> Interesting debate. Reminds me on the good old days of the Acedemie >> Francaise, the days before Biot and Chladni, where scientists doubted >> the accounts of local eyewitnesses on rocks falling from the skies >> for sociological reasons. >> >> As far as I am concerned, I still trust the people who measured e.g. >> the cosmogenic radionuclides of the meteorites produced by these >> recent falls. I absolutely doubt that the Swiss or French labs who >> worked on these stones made up their results just to make them fit >> the newspaper reports and eyewitness accounts. >> >> Svend Buhl >> >> >> - Original Message - From: "Jeff Grossman" >> To: "Meteorite-list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question >> >> >>> Martin and list, >>> >>> Actually, there is something suspicious. Northwest Africa (the >>> countries you listed plus Western Sahara and Tunisia) has seen >>> between 0 and 3 falls per decade from the 1900s through the 1980s. >>> The 1990s saw 6, and the 2000s have now got 8. There is no parallel >>> increase in the rest of Africa, which in fact has been steadily >>> declining in fall rates since the 1940s. Europe has also been >>> declining since the 1930s (in fall rates), as has North America. I >>> think northwest Africa is the only place in the world that is seeing >>> any kind of increase in rate, and it has been dramatic, tripling in >>> the last decade. >>> >>> The are various sociological reasons why this increase might have >>> happened, which we can argue about. But there certainly IS >>> something to raise ones eyebrows. >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> Martin Altmann wrote: Hi Ryan, it's because of the iron mountain in Atlas, which still has to be found and which attracts with his magnetic field all iron-bearing lumps from space. No. Take a World map, hold little Europe (forget a little bit about Scandinavia), hold it against that NWA region, Algeria, Mali, Niger, Morocco, Mauretania And let's count the falls: Let's
Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
I believe both Bensour and Oum Dreyga are legitimate falls. Witness statements written in Arabic were taken for Bensour. Maybe the translation was weak, not the the story. Best Regards, Adam __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
My Bensour is also pristine. Hmmm... == On Jan 18, 2009, at 10:22 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: I believe both Bensour and Oum Dreyga are legitimate falls. Witness statements written in Arabic were taken for Bensour. Maybe the translation was weak, not the the story. Best Regards, Adam __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
And was the best fall to come out of the area in my opinion. The crust is velvety and sooo fresh. Inside is grey with no weathering. Awesome material! Matt --Original Message-- From: Darryl Pitt Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com To: raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: Adam Sent: Jan 18, 2009 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question My Bensour is also pristine. Hmmm... == On Jan 18, 2009, at 10:22 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: > > I believe both Bensour and Oum Dreyga are legitimate falls. Witness > statements written in Arabic were taken for Bensour. Maybe the > translation was weak, not the the story. > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] PDF files for Geological Society of America andGeology Papers Now Available
Thanks Paul. Much appreciated. - Original Message - From: "Paul" To: Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:06 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] PDF files for Geological Society of America andGeology Papers Now Available Dear Friends, For an unknown period of time free PDF files of papers published in "Geology" and "Geological Society of America Bulletin" can be downloaded free of charge. A person can access them using the search page at: http://gsabulletin.gsapubs.org/search.dtl and the archive pages at: http://gsabulletin.gsapubs.org/archive/ and http://geology.gsapubs.org/archive/ For example, one paper that can be downloaded is: Vance T. Holliday, David A. Kring, James H. Mayer, and Ronald J. Goble, 2005, Age and effects of the Odessa meteorite impact, western Texas, USA Geology. vol. 33, pp. 945 - 948. It is at: http://geology.gsapubs.org/cgi/content/abstract/33/12/945?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&title=odessa&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT and PDF file at: http://geology.gsapubs.org/cgi/reprint/33/12/945?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&title=odessa&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT I do not know how long these PDF files will remain free to download. It is best to get what you want now. Yours, Paul __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 19, 2009
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_19_2009.html __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
Jeff I completely disagree with calling Bensour a find. The information/story/newspaper articles are more data than we have for many finds. Take Bilanga, there is nothing in the news, no reports other than missionary people taking out stones. Of course it is a fall, the people all saw it, and fresh stones were everywhere. Why is Bensour any different? I still have hundreds of Bensour stones, I have the main mass, 10 kilograms, the soft velvety fusion crust on many stones still have the iridescent sheen only seen in falls with no rain ever touching them. The sand blowing there would have damaged the crust in days, the sub 200 mg stones would never be found on an old fall. I have vials of them, most oriented. I think Bensour was pretty well documented. Would be glad to send you some pieces to check, but you will find not the slightest hint of weathering on any piece. Michael Farmer --- On Sun, 1/18/09, Jeff Grossman wrote: > From: Jeff Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question > To: "Meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 8:22 AM > Please don't misunderstand me... I just said there was > reason to be suspicious from a statistical point of view, > and of course there is an obvious financial motive. But I > was not saying that I thought any of the fall stories were > false, since I never even tried to assess them. > > So let's see if there is consensus to be found here on > these recent falls. I did a simple reading of the fall > accounts and used google scholar to search for cosmogenic > nuclide or other supporting data. Here are my zeroth order > ratings of each fall story: > > Chergach - highly likely > Bassikounou - highly likely > Benguerir - probable > Beni M'hira - probable > Bensour - questionable > Oum Dreyga - questionable > The new one - nothing to evaluate > Maigatari-Danduma - ignore since it isn't really in the > NWA region > > Bensour is such a weak story that I'm leaning towards > changing it from a fall to a find in my database, which is > basically what the MetBull article also said. I'm not > even sure how it got listed as a fall. Do any of you take > issue with this? > > The Oum Dreyga story also has strange elements. The > witnesses saw it "falling on ... [the] mountains," > which probably means that if there was a real fall, it was > very distant. The fact that many of the stones were > weathered also raises my doubts. So I rate this as weak. > Anybody want to take the stand on Oum Dreyga's behalf? > Or argue against any of the ones I called probable or highly > likely? > > If two are really finds and one is eliminated because it is > really not in this region, then we are left with 4 in the > 2000s decade, plus the new one which remains to be seen. > Four is certainly a more palatable number than eight from a > blind statistical point of view, neglecting other > sociological factors. > > Jeff > > Dr. Svend Buhl wrote: > > Interesting debate. Reminds me on the good old days of > the Acedemie Francaise, the days before Biot and Chladni, > where scientists doubted the accounts of local eyewitnesses > on rocks falling from the skies for sociological reasons. > > > > As far as I am concerned, I still trust the people who > measured e.g. the cosmogenic radionuclides of the meteorites > produced by these recent falls. I absolutely doubt that the > Swiss or French labs who worked on these stones made up > their results just to make them fit the newspaper reports > and eyewitness accounts. > > > > Svend Buhl > > > > > > - Original Message - From: "Jeff > Grossman" > > To: "Meteorite-list" > > > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:27 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - > Question > > > > > >> Martin and list, > >> > >> Actually, there is something suspicious. > Northwest Africa (the countries you listed plus Western > Sahara and Tunisia) has seen between 0 and 3 falls per > decade from the 1900s through the 1980s. The 1990s saw 6, > and the 2000s have now got 8. There is no parallel increase > in the rest of Africa, which in fact has been steadily > declining in fall rates since the 1940s. Europe has also > been declining since the 1930s (in fall rates), as has North > America. I think northwest Africa is the only place in the > world that is seeing any kind of increase in rate, and it > has been dramatic, tripling in the last decade. > >> > >> The are various sociological reasons why this > increase might have happened, which we can argue about. But > there certainly IS something to raise ones eyebrows. > >> > >> Jeff > >> > >> Martin Altmann wrote: > >>> Hi Ryan, > >>> it's because of the iron mountain in > Atlas, which still has to be found and > >>> which attracts with his magnetic field all > iron-bearing lumps from space. > >>> > >>> No. Take a World map, hold little Europe > (forget a little bit about > >>> Scandinavia), > >>> hold it against that NWA region,
Re: [meteorite-list] new tamdaught moroccan fall
I'd not take that bet either,Don bubt I'd take odds that it is no longer in his possession after Tucson becasue he only collects Silkote er Gao er I forget the flavor of the month. I would realy like to hear from Steve on how he is able to parlay his unemployment check into a collection which rivals that of the Field Museum. His technique might be just the thing we need to pay off the national debt and revive the world economy! Elton --- On Sun, 1/18/09, Don Rawlings wrote: > I am going to go out on a limb here and bet that you trade > it off before you even receive it. > > Anyone out there want to be against me? > > Don Rawlings > > --- On Sun, 1/18/09, steve arnold > wrote: > > > From: steve arnold > Subject: [meteorite-list] new tamdaught moroccan fall > Good evening list.For those of you who cannot wait to get a > piece of the new moroccan fall,tamdaught,phillpe thomas has > some fragments on ebay right now.I just bought a 24 gram > fragment. It looks very fresh!I hope to get mine before > tucson.I will bring it with me for show.It looks great. > > Steve R.Arnold,Chicago!/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
