Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
2008TC3 at 2 to 5 meters diameter must have weighed between 10 and 150 metric tons. The four kilos recovered would suggest a minimum loss of 99.96%. Of course, there could just as easily been 40 kilos of which only 10% was recovered (99.6% loss). Or 400 kilos of which only 1% was recovered (96% loss). I think it unlikely there was 400 kilos reaching the ground, but quite possible there were 40 kilos. (Most likely fall weight would be 15 to 25 kilos.) I don't think all of it was recovered. Strewn fields a century old still yield up meteorites today. These loss estimates are based on that lowest weight estimate of ten tons... At an original 100 metric tons, the losses would be an order of magnitude higher. Regarding 2008TC3, I would like to point at a new and, in my opinion, excellent 4-page-update-summary issued by the NATURE magazine: The impact and recovery of asteroid 2008TC3 P. Jenniskens et al., NATURE, Vol 458/26 March 2009 You have to pay a fee for an online-copy of the paper when you enter the NATURE website, but may be Professor Jenniskens or Professor Shaddad from Khartoum would be willing to share sort of a preprint or reprint - don´t know. Sorry, I have no email addresses at hands... Alex Berlin/Germany __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD-December Deals end Sat on eBay
With just 21 days before Christmas, the countdown is on for procrastinating present purchasers (of which I am one). So, to help you stuff those stockings (or boots as the case may be), the Big Kahuna is offering some delicious deals for December, in an eBay auction ending this Saturday, December 5 starting at 9:15 am Pacific / 12:15 pm Eastern / 4:15 pm London. Here are just some of the many items on the auction block: MURCHISON CM2 0.05g, 0.09g, 0.41g frags, Starting at 99¢ BENGUERIR LL6 32.91g Crusted Ind RARE, Starting at $4/g NWA 2975 She 0.10g, 0.16g, 0.40g, 1.11g Crusted, Cheap! NWA x 82g, 164g unclassified possible type 3 complete, $2/g ALLENDE CV3 12.68g, 20g Dealers Lot, starting bid $5/g ALLENDE CV3 various frags starting from 99¢ BASSIKOUNOU H5 14g 98% FC New shipment, $1.50/g CHERGACH H5 21.21g 99% FC Grade A, bid at $1.41/g CAMEL DONGA Euc 8.44g Flowlines! Starting at $12/g MILLBILLILLIE Euc 2.75g AAA Oriented, one of the last TATAHOUINE Dio 0.49g bid at 99¢ NWA 1877 Oli Dio 2.54g Rare, bid at 99¢ GOLD BASIN L4 33.26g Half stone, bid at $6.05 ... and the usual assortment of quality NWA x stones and slices, Allende frags, Norton Cty and Bilanga crusted frag lots, Henbury, Canyon Diablo, a Drop Dead Gorgeous Red Crystal Mantle Xenolith (Olivine bomb), Galileoscope, and waterproof camera. See them all here: http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html Remember that you can count on the Big Kahuna to provide you with the highest quality authentic meteorites at the lowest prices on earth. Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites 105 Puhili Place Hilo, Hawaii 96720 (808) 640-9161 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
I didn't say semantic tweaks don't matter... I only said that their need depends on how the question is phrased. The examples you give describe variations in physical conditions, not semantics. As I also noted in my original post, there has to be a very wide variation in reality, making it difficult to define typical. I don't believe I used the value 99.9% in my responses. What I said is that you can probably safely assume that in the majority of cases more than 95% of the original mass is lost. Carancas is a poor example for just about anything, being a singular event. However, even that case doesn't seem unreasonable. If we assume the impactor was 1 ton (about 1 meter diameter), a 95% loss means the parent was 20 tons (about 2 meter diameter); if we assume a 99% loss, the parent was 100 tons (about 4 meter diameter). These numbers are perfectly reasonable and believable. Of course, Carancas almost certainly had less than the usual amount of ablation because it impacted before ablation had stopped. Yes, estimates are a kind of guess. But guess doesn't have to mean a random choice. The idea that the parent bodies of most meteorites lost more than 95% of their mass to ablation is based on solid theory and observation. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu; meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry? Chris, Again, With all due respect. How can you say semantic tweaks don't matter? Semantics are everything. I know he asked about chondrites but they do vary in density. What if it is Iron vs, very low density like a CI1? What if it is huge vs. tiny? What if it is traveling at a super fast speed at a very steep angle? It seems TC3 came in at an angle that would argue that there would be very material little left. It also is a very porous and fragile material which would also lend itself to quick destruction entering our atmosphere. According to the show there was two different materials found. So, this meteoroid was made up of different materials which would contribute to break-up vs, holding itself together. Simple Examples here; as Sterling said without math. What if you put an iron meteorite into a rock tumbler. And then you put a CI1 into a similar rock tumbler. The amount of time it would require for these different rocks to end up as dust would be quite significant, wouldn't it? And given there is a very small time table for the ablation process to occur it seems obvious that the time spent in the ablation process alone would be sufficient to prove that the density of the meteoroid matters a lot. Secondly, The size of the material has a lot to do with ablation. Also based on time in ablation zone of the atmosphere. Using the same scenario, if you put say a marble size piece of meteorite along with a baseball size piece of the same meteorite. The marble size will have ablated to 100% dust far before the larger piece. Simple logic here. Please tell me how this example does not argue that it is in fact possible for a very high percentage of the material to survive. Lets say it's a mile wide iron traveling super fast at a 90 degree angle (which would get it through the ablation zone very quickly). It seems that it is very possible for most of it to survive. Based on your 99.9% guess. that would mean that Carancas would have entered our atmosphere the size of a small planet. We recovered aprox. 10 kilos and guesstimates are that most of it was lost to the crater. So, if you take whatever the guess is for the size that hit the ground and multiply it by 99.9% that means it would have been possibly miles wide. If it was I am surprised nobody saw it coming. Even with this highly studied event. The scientists are still arguing about the speed. One says it came in very fast while another says it came in very slow. Either way it seems to me the size estimate would also vary. So, isn't any estimate a mere guess at best? Thanks Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] TC3 show and an observation
Hi List, I watched the National Geographic's Naked Science: Countdown to Impact which is the story of asteroid/meteorite TC3. What caught my attention was the diversity of material within the samples collected. After a few years of weathering, would all those stones even be thought to of come from the same fall? It got me wondering about the diversity in other meteorite material. Have others working with meteorites noticed large diversity in material type within a group of named samples. I'm not talking about a single stone (perhaps even brecciated) but rather a fall with a large number of recovered individuals. I am not an expert but I have cut, polished and examined mare than an average amount of meteorites and in those named materials where I have cut into more than 50 stones, most have such a large diversity I could send in a type sample that would support any thing from a type 3 to a 6. Some primary examples are SaU 001, JaH 055, JaH 073 and the provisional NWA 5142. These examples are only those where I have cut a large amount. There must be other more dramatic examples others have noticed. Aside from that question I had, it was a great informative and entertaining show. Well done! for info on the show see: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview Tom Phillips __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
That paper is available for free on Google Docs here: http://tinyurl.com/yl7bvbg -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Alexander Seidel g...@gmx.net wrote: From: Alexander Seidel g...@gmx.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry? To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, damoc...@yahoo.com Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 6:10 AM 2008TC3 at 2 to 5 meters diameter must have weighed between 10 and 150 metric tons. The four kilos recovered would suggest a minimum loss of 99.96%. Of course, there could just as easily been 40 kilos of which only 10% was recovered (99.6% loss). Or 400 kilos of which only 1% was recovered (96% loss). I think it unlikely there was 400 kilos reaching the ground, but quite possible there were 40 kilos. (Most likely fall weight would be 15 to 25 kilos.) I don't think all of it was recovered. Strewn fields a century old still yield up meteorites today. These loss estimates are based on that lowest weight estimate of ten tons... At an original 100 metric tons, the losses would be an order of magnitude higher. Regarding 2008TC3, I would like to point at a new and, in my opinion, excellent 4-page-update-summary issued by the NATURE magazine: The impact and recovery of asteroid 2008TC3 P. Jenniskens et al., NATURE, Vol 458/26 March 2009 You have to pay a fee for an online-copy of the paper when you enter the NATURE website, but may be Professor Jenniskens or Professor Shaddad from Khartoum would be willing to share sort of a preprint or reprint - don´t know. Sorry, I have no email addresses at hands... Alex Berlin/Germany __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
Sorry for my poorly formed query. I certainly did not mean that we'd include meteoroids that were so small that they completely burned up before becoming meteorites on the surface. I figured that was a given. My mistake. Yes and I did try to be a bit subtle in my query and ask about an ordinary chondrite instead of an Ureilite just to make the back of the envelope calculations easier. I am assuming someone somewhere has tested actual chondritic material in a hypersonic plasma tunnel to measure the exact amount of ablation and possibly someone here knew that result. That way it wouldn't be a guess but an actual measurement. Now that I've thought about it some more I know someone who may have already performed that experiment, so I'll contact him... Too me, 99.9% seems to me to be an excessive amount of loss due to ablation and disintegration, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, even if you use that number, with 2008 TC3 weighing an estimated 72,600 kilos before entry. 99.9% loss would mean there is still about 65 kilos of material on the ground in the Sudan that has not yet been recovered. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 4, 2009
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_4_2009.html __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] TC3 show and an observation
Tom: Very interesting point. As you may know, many of the meteorites found on Dry Lakes are different, ranging from H3 - H6, L3 - L6 and even some LL's. I'm not a specialist but I've thought the same. If a large asteroid (or meteor) exploded above the area, of what is now a dry lake, perhaps 100's or even 1000's of pieces, different types could be spread over many square miles. However, they also could be meteorites from multiple falls ocurring over last 20,000 years. BTW - the show NAked Scienceabout TC3 was very interesting and I enjoyed it very much. Thanks to everyone involved with it. Greg S. From: starsandsco...@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 15:05:22 -0500 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] TC3 show and an observation Hi List, I watched the National Geographic's Naked Science: Countdown to Impact which is the story of asteroid/meteorite TC3. What caught my attention was the diversity of material within the samples collected. After a few years of weathering, would all those stones even be thought to of come from the same fall? It got me wondering about the diversity in other meteorite material. Have others working with meteorites noticed large diversity in material type within a group of named samples. I'm not talking about a single stone (perhaps even brecciated) but rather a fall with a large number of recovered individuals. I am not an expert but I have cut, polished and examined mare than an average amount of meteorites and in those named materials where I have cut into more than 50 stones, most have such a large diversity I could send in a type sample that would support any thing from a type 3 to a 6. Some primary examples are SaU 001, JaH 055, JaH 073 and the provisional NWA 5142. These examples are only those where I have cut a large amount. There must be other more dramatic examples others have noticed. Aside from that question I had, it was a great informative and entertaining show. Well done! for info on the show see: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview Tom Phillips __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now. http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=xbox+gamesscope=cashbackform=MSHYCBpubl=WLHMTAGcrea=TEXT_MSHYCB_Shopping_Giftsforthem_cashback_1x1 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
A quick search of ADS, which i probably should have done in the first place, reveals only two papers on this and this one: DEPTH DEPENDENCE OF 22Ne/21Ne IN ORDINARY CHONDRITES AND ABLATION OF METEORITES V.A. Alexeev, Vernadsky Institute of Geochemistry and Analytical Chemistry, Russian Academy of Sciences, 117975, Moscow, Russia (a...@icp.ac.ru) http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2003/pdf/1003.pdf may be of interest to others. Not a direct ablation experiment, but it is interesting to see most of their calculations show anywhere from 14% to 99%+ ablation for various samples, with the majority in the 90s. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Just change the gravitational constant of the universe!
But, since John de Lancie isn't handy: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/12/asteroid-deflection-tether/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Index+3+%28Top+Stories+2%29%29 To Deflect an Asteroid, Try a Lasso, Not a Nuke * By Adam Mann * December 4, 2009 To save the world from the real threat of a major asteroid impact, one engineer has imagined a scheme similar to George Baileys wish to lasso the moon for his sweetheart in Its a Wonderful Life. The plan is to attach a gigantic weight to an Earth-bound asteroid using an enormous cord. This crazy-sounding contraption would change the asteroids center of mass and subsequently its trajectory, averting a potentially catastrophic scenario. Aerospace engineer Major David French of the Air Force Institute of Technology mathematically modeled how different weights and lengths of tether would affect a killer asteroids orbit over time. The results are in the December issue of Acta Astronautica. He found that, in general, longer tethers and larger masses would more significantly change the asteroids orbit. The alteration would occur slowly, taking anywhere from 10 to 50 years. The technique would require no simple mission. The cosmic counterweight would tip the scale at billions of pounds, while the rope would range anywhere from six miles (about the height of Mount Everest), to 60,000 miles (long enough to wrap around Earth two and a half times). This solution may sound unrealistic, but the threat is real. To date, NASAs Near Earth Object Program, which tracks asteroids and comets that could approach the planet, has cataloged more than 5,500 objects. About 1,000 of these are classified as potentially hazardous, meaning they could wipe out a city, spawn giant tsunamis or, in the worst case, eradicate life with a planet-shrouding cloud of debris. To guard against this, scientists have produced many dramatic proposals, each with its own merits. French thinks his technique stands out for its relative ease. What interested me was that there is no active control system needed, he said. Once the rope and weight were installed, the asteroid would get nudged through nothing but the laws of gravity. However, the method is not lacking critics. This tether-deflection idea is an interesting intellectual exercise, said astronomer David Morrison of the Asteroid and Comet Impact Hazards Group at NASAs Ames Research Center. But it is of no practical value. Morrison points out that putting enormous objects, such as a heavy tether and ballast, in space is far beyond the entire human races launch capability. Furthermore, the cost of designing and building a strong enough rope makes the solution intractable. From a practical point of view, the technique is a mess, agreed Russell Schweickart, former Apollo astronaut and co-founder of the B612 Foundation, a group dedicated to protecting the Earth from asteroid strikes. He is concerned that no one knows how to hook a tether to a spinning asteroid and, once attached, there is no guarantee the line wont get tangled up. Schweickart and Morrison offer a much simpler idea that uses current technology: Change the asteroids orbit by crashing something into it. Even a relatively small satellite would alter the orbit enough to stave off certain doom, if we did it far enough in advance. French understands these criticisms and thinks they are well-founded. But, he said Earth will still need protection from asteroids in the next century, and the next millennium. If our technology and expertise isnt enough to lasso an asteroid right now, we have time. The last extinction-level asteroid strike was 65 million years ago, he said, I think its important to take the long view and maybe dig into technology that is not quite ready. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
Hi, All, Chris said: If you are asking how much of a meteorite's parent body was lost, there's no problem; it's never 100%. It is only in asking how much of a meteoroid survives ablation that you have to deal with the fact that it's usually 0%. That encapsulates two ways of looking at this question. One is to discuss a specific meteoroid / meteorite and try to deduce the specific results. The other way is as a general question concerning the entire CLASS of meteoroids / meteorites. I took the question in the general sense. Taxonomy, in other words. And, just as in all natural science, there is considerable variation in individuals and the conditions of re-entry. A plasma jet experiment will tell you ablation rates for various speeds on a specific or generalized material, but practically, this only provides broad boundaries to the problem. Very broad boundaries, because of the variances in speed, duration and the character of the material being ablated. If, for example 2003TC3 had entered at 45 degrees to the horizon at an encounter velocity of 27,500 m/s, I can practically guarantee you nothing would have reached the ground, whether it weighed 10 tons, 100 tons, or 1000 tons. [In case there are quibbles with this, yes, it would likely fragment at high altitude, but the fragments would be moving faster than 12,000 m/s and would never withstand ablation long enough to hit. I also did the calculation for both shallow entries and high-angle entries at this speed and the result is the same. Speed kills.] There are so many possible events that an empirical general answer can probably only be reached by the long-term continued operation of fireball tracking networks. So far, they suggest many meteoroids and far fewer meteorites. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry? Sorry for my poorly formed query. I certainly did not mean that we'd include meteoroids that were so small that they completely burned up before becoming meteorites on the surface. I figured that was a given. My mistake. Yes and I did try to be a bit subtle in my query and ask about an ordinary chondrite instead of an Ureilite just to make the back of the envelope calculations easier. I am assuming someone somewhere has tested actual chondritic material in a hypersonic plasma tunnel to measure the exact amount of ablation and possibly someone here knew that result. That way it wouldn't be a guess but an actual measurement. Now that I've thought about it some more I know someone who may have already performed that experiment, so I'll contact him... Too me, 99.9% seems to me to be an excessive amount of loss due to ablation and disintegration, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, even if you use that number, with 2008 TC3 weighing an estimated 72,600 kilos before entry. 99.9% loss would mean there is still about 65 kilos of material on the ground in the Sudan that has not yet been recovered. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Just change the gravitational constant of the universe!
Yep, there are many creative ideas on how to deflect an NEO that is found on an impacting orbit. Many, but far from all of them are described if you follow the many dramatic proposals link in that article. Thought many sound interesting, if you discuss the issue with most of the experts in the field, they'll pretty much all concede that the most likely method to be used will be one or more nuclear weapons used in stand off mode even if they officially advocate other methods. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net wrote: From: Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net Subject: [meteorite-list] Just change the gravitational constant of the universe! But, since John de Lancie isn't handy: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/12/asteroid-deflection-tether/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Index+3+%28Top+Stories+2%29%29 To Deflect an Asteroid, Try a Lasso, Not a Nuke __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 - NatGeo TV
Thanks Greg and everyone who has contacted me about the show on or off list. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm sure most of the footage from everyone interviewed ended up on the cutting room floor. They shot a lot more footage at Mt. Lemmon. The total time was about 13 hours of effort that day. For those who inquired, the time lapse shown was one I just happened to have made the night 2008 TC3 was discovered. If you have a high speed connection, you can watch the entire time lapse as a Flash animation on my commercial site here: http://www.fullmoonphotography.net/g96_2008_10_06.htm As for Greg's comment about finding the program for sale, I do not know when or if the program will ever be offered. National Geographic Channel apparently does not offer any of their Naked Science series episodes for sale. That's a shame because they do have many interesting programs, including a number about asteroids, meteorites, impact glass, etc... For those of you who would like a copy, I can only suggest you record it some other time it runs or if you don't get NatGeo, ask a friend to record it for you. You might also contact NatGeo to inquire if or when they'll have discs for sale. Maybe if enough people ask, they'll offer them. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 --- On Thu, 12/3/09, Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net wrote: From: Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 - NatGeo TV To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 10:15 PM Hello All, For anyone who missed tonight's airing of National Geographic's Naked Science: Countdown to Impact, it is well worth watching any second showings as they did a fantastic job, excellent show!! Here is a link to the web site for info: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview I looked for videos for sale, but nothing yet :-/ Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] HUGE Chondrule Status - Relisted Lower
Dear List Members, I had a number of folks contact me asking what the status of the meteorite with the HUGE Chondrule was. NWA 5486 did not sell at my initial asking price so I loaded it back on eBay and slashed the starting price to almost half of what I was first offering it at. With well over 200 people who looked at the auction first round, I think someone will snag it this time! I loaded the One-of-a-Kind ~ NWA 5486 and about a dozen severely discounted Unclassified NWA meteorites that did not sell last round either. All have been listed for 10 days while I am out of town. I will not be able to answer any questions during this time, most likely no email access, sorry! Click here for these and all of my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault (This is my AD for next week, a few days early. Thanks for your understanding!) Have a great weekend! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Just change the gravitational constant of the universe!
On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 16:24:37 -0800 (PST), you wrote: Thought many sound interesting, if you discuss the issue with most of the experts in the field, they'll pretty much all concede that the most likely method to be used will be one or more nuclear weapons used in stand off mode even if they officially advocate other methods. I'll have to disagree with the experts there-- I think the most likely and viable approach is the KYAGB maneuver. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Zamanshin impact and Homo Heidelbergensis
Hi - While this is far from meteorites, it does concern impacts, and specifically the Zamanshin impact. I received grief for using the term Homo Heidelbergensis in my book for this fellow, even though I added in a footnote that the taxonomy was confused: http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=10t=2381 Note that no name is given for this homonid right now. This homonid was likely the common ancestor for sapiens and neanderthal, with the two populations split by the Zamanshin impact. E.P Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Just change the gravitational constant of the universe!
Hi Darren, All, Since it's nearly impossible to do the KYAGB manuever yourself, maybe figuring a plan on getting acquainted with a super model instead. Best way to go, I think. Carl Darren wrote: I'll have to disagree with the experts there-- I think the most likely and viable approach is the KYAGB maneuver. _ _ Windows Live Hotmail gives you a free,exclusive gift. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_7:092009 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
Chris, Again, With all due respect. How can you say semantic tweaks don't matter? Semantics are everything. I know he asked about chondrites but they do vary in density. What if it is Iron vs, very low density like a CI1? What if it is huge vs. tiny? What if it is traveling at a super fast speed at a very steep angle? It seems TC3 came in at an angle that would argue that there would be very material little left. It also is a very porous and fragile material which would also lend itself to quick destruction entering our atmosphere. According to the show there was two different materials found. So, this meteoroid was made up of different materials which would contribute to break-up vs, holding itself together. Simple Examples here; as Sterling said without math. What if you put an iron meteorite into a rock tumbler. And then you put a CI1 into a similar rock tumbler. The amount of time it would require for these different rocks to end up as dust would be quite significant, wouldn't it? And given there is a very small time table for the ablation process to occur it seems obvious that the time spent in the ablation process alone would be sufficient to prove that the density of the meteoroid matters a lot. Secondly, The size of the material has a lot to do with ablation. Also based on time in ablation zone of the atmosphere. Using the same scenario, if you put say a marble size piece of meteorite along with a baseball size piece of the same meteorite. The marble size will have ablated to 100% dust far before the larger piece. Simple logic here. Please tell me how this example does not argue that it is in fact possible for a very high percentage of the material to survive. Lets say it's a mile wide iron traveling super fast at a 90 degree angle (which would get it through the ablation zone very quickly). It seems that it is very possible for most of it to survive. Based on your 99.9% guess. that would mean that Carancas would have entered our atmosphere the size of a small planet. We recovered aprox. 10 kilos and guesstimates are that most of it was lost to the crater. So, if you take whatever the guess is for the size that hit the ground and multiply it by 99.9% that means it would have been possibly miles wide. If it was I am surprised nobody saw it coming. Even with this highly studied event. The scientists are still arguing about the speed. One says it came in very fast while another says it came in very slow. Either way it seems to me the size estimate would also vary. So, isn't any estimate a mere guess at best? Thanks Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu wrote: Whether a semantic tweak is required depends on how you look at the question. If you are asking how much of a meteorite's parent body was lost, there's no problem; it's never 100%. It is only in asking how much of a meteoroid survives ablation that you have to deal with the fact that it's usually 0%. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com; meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry? There's a semantic tweak to whatever answer is given. We presume on good evidence that many meteoroids result in no meteorite at all reaching the Earth. That is our assumption, at any rate. In that case, the loss is... 100% __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
Richard, Very nice show tonight. I recorded it so I can watch again. You were very very good! You are (the) ultimate meteorite hunter. Congrats. I'm pretty sure it has been stated on this list that the amount burned up in passage through the atmosphere depends on so many different factors that any guess might be right. Anyway, Congrats again. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: Does anyone have a rough estimate on how much material, say ordinary chondrite, is lost during entry? 80% converted to light, heat and dust? 90%? 99.9%? Thanks -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - GREAT HOLIDAY METEORITE SALE
Hi to all, I have some really nice meteorite samples available. Tatahouine (Diogenite) - $10 per gram Camel Donga (Eucrite) - $20 per gram NWA 4734 (Lunar) - $700 per gram and up. NWA 4857 (Martian) - $700 per gram and up. Lunar and Martian Display cases - $20 each (nice sized fragments also) Thin Sections for $40-$80 each - includes Tatahouine, Camel Donga, EL, L, LL and others. Also, feel free to sign up to my meteorite forum, you can find it by clicking the tab on my website: www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com One last thing, check out my ebay listings, I have some nice material listed on there also. 10% off any ebay item that is sold off ebay. (Auctions not included) http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1 Hope everyone has a safe Holiday! Greg C. IMCA 4682 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
