[meteorite-list] Meteorite Museum in NC coming soon!
Ive got great news today! I have been working on a project to open a meteorite and space museum here in my home state of North Carolina. After much effort, I am happy to announce that by this time next year, It will be open! I am looking to offer the schools in my area with free admission and educational tours. With luck, I will be able to introduce many school age children to the wonderful world of meteorites. I will be able to allow hands on learning and a place where not just kids, but anyone can get a chance to hold and learn about meteorites. The museum will be filled with my personal collection and a few samples that private collectors have been kind enough to offer on loan. I will update as it progresses and as the opening date draws near. I am looking to plan a grand opening that I hope will bring some of you this way. Thought I would share the news, hope everyone is doing good. Greg C. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ?
I have a problem with collectors who think a museum is hording when it acquires a specimen for its collection. There is no intrinsic right of the public to be able to own buy and trade in every meteorite that is found. The public is well-served by museums like the Smithsonian, which use interesting objects like this for research and educational purposes, while curating them for posterity. The flip side of this is that in the US, there is no intrinsic right of government institutions to confiscate legally owned meteorites. This is also good. Clearly, the Smithsonian is attempting no such thing. As long as we're talking about ownership, I was at the site of the fall on Jan 21. At this time, the roofers were still on site, having just finished patching the roof. The only other visitors who had arrived by this time were several of my colleagues from the Smithsonian, members of the local media (TV news) and one well-known collector/dealer who had flown in from the western US on a red-eye. The collector, in front of me and the media, convinced the roofers both to give him the damaged roofing shingles with the hole, and then to go back up to the roof and retrieve for him the piece of plywood with the hole in it, from under the new shingles. I've been wondering since then, who legally owns these artifacts? The roofers had almost certainly been asked to fix the damage and cart away the debris (but obviously, I didn't see their contract). Did they, at this point, own the debris? What if there was a fragment of the meteorite embedded in the debris? (I don't think there was, but there could well be dust.) Who would own that? Jeff On 2010-01-29 2:25 AM, Richard Kowalski wrote: I've been informed privately that it was apparently the Smithsonian that contacted the owner of the land and offering payment. I didn't mean to slight any hunter or dealer by my suggestion that one contacted the land owner... I'm a firm believer that sufficient samples need to be submitted for classification and research but I have a huge problem with some researchers that feel they need to horde every milligram for no reason other than to keep it out of the collector market. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ?
Well, as a new person on the list, I was pretty surprised at the tone the list took for a few days after the Lorton fall... My first thought after reading some of the messages was parasite, vulture... And I nearly dropped my subscription. But I thought, well, I'm sure not all collectors are like that... Clear Skies! Elizabeth On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Richard Kowalski wrote: I've been informed privately that it was apparently the Smithsonian that contacted the owner of the land and offering payment. I didn't mean to slight any hunter or dealer by my suggestion that one contacted the land owner... I'm a firm believer that sufficient samples need to be submitted for classification and research but I have a huge problem with some researchers that feel they need to horde every milligram for no reason other than to keep it out of the collector market. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] THE OLDEST METEORITE ?
Hi Shawn and List. Interesting you brought this up. I remember years ago purchasing a rare meteorite specifically because of its age. Could not remember for which one (old age thing!) anyways I remember what meteorite that was.Tieschitz. Fell July 15, 1878 at 1345 hrs. I will try and find the article/study/results which I know I saved on this meteorite and forward it to the list...Since I have it in my collection I wrote a few things about the meteorite on my index card file. Contains pre-solar Al rich oxide grains. Most of these grains originate in red giants. Age was estimated at 4.59 A± 0.09Ga which exceeds the age of Allende and the others mentioned. At least this is what I had jotted down. Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA #0960 - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 7:04 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] THE OLDEST METEORITE ? The age old question, which meteorite is the oldest? I have done some reading on this topic and asked a few people what they thought and here is what I have gathered so far. Allende is 4,565.45 (+-0.45) m.y. and I have also seen Allende dated at 4,5685 b.y. Burkhardt (2007), which could make Allende one of the oldest meteorites. But then I have read that D'Orbigny, stated by Qing-Zhu Yin (2009) is the oldest meteorite, with an age of 4,567.91 (+- 0.76) m.y. But to counter Qing-Zhu Yin claim, in 2009 Tistarite a new refractory mineral was found in Allende which this new refractory mineral is among the first solids formed in the solar system ( American Mineralogist 2009 ). If this didn’t get confusing enough, a newly identified refractory inclusion in Murchison composed of hibonite represents some of the earliest condensed solids or residues from the early, hot, solar nebula (Liu et al., 2009). These refractory inclusions comprise of platy crystals and blue aggregates, which formation occurred hundreds of thousands of years before the formation of CV CAIs ( http://www.meteoritestudies.com/ ) But some people have a different idea of the age old question and feel that the Vigarano meteorite is the oldest meteorite. Vigarano fell at 9:30 pm 22 January 1910 in Emilia, Italy. Two stones of 11.5 kg and 4.5 kg were found. This is the type specimen for the CV class. A case can be made for Vigarano being the oldest meteorite. Although older ages have been recorded for other meteorites they are isolated measurements and do not give as consistently an old age as does Vigarano ( http://www.star-bits.com/VIGARANO.htm ) . Now back to the question what is the oldest meteorite? Shawn Alan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 29, 2010
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_29_2010.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ?
Possession isn't nine-tenths of the law. It's nine-tenths of the problem. John Lennon -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Jeff Grossman jgross...@usgs.gov wrote: I have a problem with collectors who think a museum is hording when it acquires a specimen for its collection. There is no intrinsic right of the public to be able to own buy and trade in every meteorite that is found. The public is well-served by museums like the Smithsonian, which use interesting objects like this for research and educational purposes, while curating them for posterity. The flip side of this is that in the US, there is no intrinsic right of government institutions to confiscate legally owned meteorites. This is also good. Clearly, the Smithsonian is attempting no such thing. As long as we're talking about ownership, I was at the site of the fall on Jan 21. At this time, the roofers were still on site, having just finished patching the roof. The only other visitors who had arrived by this time were several of my colleagues from the Smithsonian, members of the local media (TV news) and one well-known collector/dealer who had flown in from the western US on a red-eye. The collector, in front of me and the media, convinced the roofers both to give him the damaged roofing shingles with the hole, and then to go back up to the roof and retrieve for him the piece of plywood with the hole in it, from under the new shingles. I've been wondering since then, who legally owns these artifacts? The roofers had almost certainly been asked to fix the damage and cart away the debris (but obviously, I didn't see their contract). Did they, at this point, own the debris? What if there was a fragment of the meteorite embedded in the debris? (I don't think there was, but there could well be dust.) Who would own that? Jeff On 2010-01-29 2:25 AM, Richard Kowalski wrote: I've been informed privately that it was apparently the Smithsonian that contacted the owner of the land and offering payment. I didn't mean to slight any hunter or dealer by my suggestion that one contacted the land owner... I'm a firm believer that sufficient samples need to be submitted for classification and research but I have a huge problem with some researchers that feel they need to horde every milligram for no reason other than to keep it out of the collector market. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Museum in NC coming soon!
Top stuff Greg...congrats! Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg Catterton Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:26 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Museum in NC coming soon! Ive got great news today! I have been working on a project to open a meteorite and space museum here in my home state of North Carolina. After much effort, I am happy to announce that by this time next year, It will be open! I am looking to offer the schools in my area with free admission and educational tours. With luck, I will be able to introduce many school age children to the wonderful world of meteorites. I will be able to allow hands on learning and a place where not just kids, but anyone can get a chance to hold and learn about meteorites. The museum will be filled with my personal collection and a few samples that private collectors have been kind enough to offer on loan. I will update as it progresses and as the opening date draws near. I am looking to plan a grand opening that I hope will bring some of you this way. Thought I would share the news, hope everyone is doing good. Greg C. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Most Depressing XKCD Ever
http://xkcd.com/695/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tucson
Hi Listees, I'll be heading to Tucson for the weekend. If you need to contact me, please call 760-522-2152 as I will not be available via email until evenings. Have fun and hope to see you at the show... Regards, Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] geographic map tool
FYI I added an interactive geographic map tool for the meteorites from the Tricottet Collection: http://www.thetricottetcollection.com/met_archiveLOC.html Please let me know off-list if the tool does not work on your web browser. Thanks for your help! ArnaudM The Tricottet Collection of Natural History Specimens (Minerals, Fossils Meteorites) www.thetricottetcollection.com Facebook: The Tricottet Collection Twitter: TricottetColl _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tucson Information Page - Final Update
Dear List, I just finished updating our Tucson Information Page with the Birthday Bash information and map link (Thank you Geoff!). I also had the great pleasure of adding at note from Svend Buhl that he will be attending the show. Tucson Show Information http://www.meteorite-times.com/tucson/ Can't wait to see everyone! Paul __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 29, 2010
Outstanding! -- From: Michael Johnson mich...@rocksfromspace.org Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:13 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 29,2010 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_29_2010.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Regmaglypts
Phyllis wrote in microgravity, there is no density difference between materials because density, as a material property, depends on gravity. So, the concepts of heavy and light don't apply. Hmmm. Density is defined as mass per unit volume and is, therefore, independent of gravity. Heavy and light are not density terms - they are weight terms - hence gravity related. No matter what the gravity is, nickel-iron is denser than olivine. Paul Swartz __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January29, 2010
This is an unusual and utmost dramatic Gibeon - congratulation, Svend. It's not a classical, not an apollonian one. It's dionysian - can't remember that I ever saw a Gibeon with such dense fields of tiny regmaglypts instead of the well known bowls, with such awful traces of atmospherical passage and inflight-fragmentation, at the margins above all. I must confess that my very first and spontaneous thought was: Henbury, obviously caused by the wonderful reddish patina. Best regards, Matthias B. - Original Message - From: Jerry Flaherty g...@comcast.net To: Michael Johnson mich...@rocksfromspace.org; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January29, 2010 Outstanding! -- From: Michael Johnson mich...@rocksfromspace.org Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:13 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 29,2010 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_29_2010.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking
Hey List, It was my understanding that a local news station was called to the Lorton doctor's office, and then that TV news crew actually drove the meteorite to the Smithsonian for verification. At that time, it became obvious that it was a genuine meteorite and then efforts by the museum personnel were started to acquire this specimen for the museum. In any case, when I arrived at the fall site the next day after the story broke, with a Meteorite Men camera crew on my heels, Smithsonian personnel were there at the fall site, which I thought was great. You can't blame them for wanting to obtain the rock. In fact, there would be something wrong if they didn't want to acquire it. I will say that our Meteorite Men producers made extensive attempts to gain permission from the Smithsonian for me to come to the U.S. National Collection with a camera crew and shoot footage of Earth's newest alien visitor to appear in one of our upcoming February episodes. If the Lorton story would have played out big enough, it could have become its own episode, most likely running at the end of February or in March of this year. We were willing to pay the $1,000 shooting fee that the Smithsonian normally charges, but we were flatly denied ANY access to the Lorton specimen for our TV show. I am not sure of all of the reasons, and who made the actual decision to deny us and our audience the opportunity to see it first hand, but it seems that because the Smithsonian now has their own new cable TV network, and as such it is now their policy to not give any competing TV networks any access to shooting any of their stuff in their collections. We also wanted to film the actual Tucson Ring specimen, that is the centerpiece in the National Collection's public display, for this next Wednesday's episode of Meteorite Men, but we were flatly denied access a few months ago to shoot that as well. The February 3rd episode of Meteorite Men goes into the historical story of the Tucson Ring and of course, as the center piece to our National Collection now on display in Washington D.C., it's final resting place is an important part of the story of the greatest legend in all of meteorites. However, I was told that the powers that be at the Smithsonian did offer to sell us a black and white still photo of the Ring for $400 to use on the show. Nice of them, wasn't it? So, I don't think the problems we had this last week were related to the Lorton fall in particular, but seems to be a bigger bureaucratic problem elsewhere. Apparently, other networks have had severe access challenges lately in wanting to get footage of other national treasures since the Smithsonian cable network was formed. In our case it seems to be a real shame as it would have generated great PR for both our TV show and for the Smithsonian and for meteorites in general. Well, maybe one day, a few years down the road, we can look forward to the Smithsonian Cable TV Network running their own TV show about meteorites in general and maybe the Lorton specifically and we will all get to see it again. It is not my intention to paint the meteorite professionals at the National Collection in a bad light. In fact, I would invite them to respond here to give their side of the story. I have traded with the Smithsonian in the past and I even sold the Smithsonian some West specimens this last year. While the process was complicated and took a very long time, the people I worked with were great, and I consider them friends and colleagues in our celestial quest. I get the feeling that the challenges we face are in other departments other than theirs. I do know there is still some prejudice against the collecting community among some in governmental employed academia. There are those that still think all meteorites should be owned by governments and that there should be no private hunting for, collecting and owning of meteorites. There seems to be a few dinosaurs holding onto the idea that if someone earns a buck, or God forbid -- a living, in the meteorite business, it is a bad thing. (Ironically, I am still looking for the list of scientists and curators that donate 100% of their paychecks each week back to the institutions that employ them, because they really believe it is wrong for anyone to earn any money from working with meteorites.) And what is really ironic, is that people like Dr. Art Ehlmann at T.C.U., who really does all his meteorite work gratis, is on the top of the list of people who do their meteorite work for no pay AND he is also on the top of the list of scientists that support our collecting communities efforts. It is possible that there is an underlying fear that being associated with a TV show that features non-governmental collecting of meteorites could somehow cast them in a negative light, especially among a
Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking
Hi Steve and List, Great post and unfortunately very true. Something I have noticed in the last couple of years - more and more scientists have ponytails, dreadlocks, and tattoos. When I watch science documentaries on TV now, you often see a young scientist with a goatee and dreadlocks. It's funny and encouraging at the same time. Times are a changin and people are becoming more open minded and tolerant. When I grew up in the early 70's, all scientists on TV had buzz-cuts and looked like cops. So, perhaps this archaic anti-collecting attitude we go the same way as the dinosaurs. Just give it time. Seriously, next time you watch a science documentary (especially the ones about astronomy), take a look at the scientists they interview - you see a few old school types, but you also see the next young crop of up and coming scientists, and if looks are any gauge, then I feel hopeful that these exclusionary attitudes and snobbish views will disappear along with the buzz cuts and pocket protectors. ;) Best regards and happy hunting, MikeG PS - isn't the Smith publicly subsidized by tax payer money? If so, what right do they have to deny access to the specimens? On 1/29/10, meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com wrote: Hey List, It was my understanding that a local news station was called to the Lorton doctor's office, and then that TV news crew actually drove the meteorite to the Smithsonian for verification. At that time, it became obvious that it was a genuine meteorite and then efforts by the museum personnel were started to acquire this specimen for the museum. In any case, when I arrived at the fall site the next day after the story broke, with a Meteorite Men camera crew on my heels, Smithsonian personnel were there at the fall site, which I thought was great. You can't blame them for wanting to obtain the rock. In fact, there would be something wrong if they didn't want to acquire it. I will say that our Meteorite Men producers made extensive attempts to gain permission from the Smithsonian for me to come to the U.S. National Collection with a camera crew and shoot footage of Earth's newest alien visitor to appear in one of our upcoming February episodes. If the Lorton story would have played out big enough, it could have become its own episode, most likely running at the end of February or in March of this year. We were willing to pay the $1,000 shooting fee that the Smithsonian normally charges, but we were flatly denied ANY access to the Lorton specimen for our TV show. I am not sure of all of the reasons, and who made the actual decision to deny us and our audience the opportunity to see it first hand, but it seems that because the Smithsonian now has their own new cable TV network, and as such it is now their policy to not give any competing TV networks any access to shooting any of their stuff in their collections. We also wanted to film the actual Tucson Ring specimen, that is the centerpiece in the National Collection's public display, for this next Wednesday's episode of Meteorite Men, but we were flatly denied access a few months ago to shoot that as well. The February 3rd episode of Meteorite Men goes into the historical story of the Tucson Ring and of course, as the center piece to our National Collection now on display in Washington D.C., it's final resting place is an important part of the story of the greatest legend in all of meteorites. However, I was told that the powers that be at the Smithsonian did offer to sell us a black and white still photo of the Ring for $400 to use on the show. Nice of them, wasn't it? So, I don't think the problems we had this last week were related to the Lorton fall in particular, but seems to be a bigger bureaucratic problem elsewhere. Apparently, other networks have had severe access challenges lately in wanting to get footage of other national treasures since the Smithsonian cable network was formed. In our case it seems to be a real shame as it would have generated great PR for both our TV show and for the Smithsonian and for meteorites in general. Well, maybe one day, a few years down the road, we can look forward to the Smithsonian Cable TV Network running their own TV show about meteorites in general and maybe the Lorton specifically and we will all get to see it again. It is not my intention to paint the meteorite professionals at the National Collection in a bad light. In fact, I would invite them to respond here to give their side of the story. I have traded with the Smithsonian in the past and I even sold the Smithsonian some West specimens this last year. While the process was complicated and took a very long time, the people I worked with were great, and I consider them friends and colleagues in our celestial quest. I get the feeling that the challenges we face are in other departments other than
Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking
... and may I add that not only are scientists these days sporting ponytails, dreadlocks and tattoos (and I know several), but more are of the female persuasion. Girl Power dude. On Jan 29, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Galactic Stone Ironworks wrote: Hi Steve and List, Great post and unfortunately very true. Something I have noticed in the last couple of years - more and more scientists have ponytails, dreadlocks, and tattoos. When I watch science documentaries on TV now, you often see a young scientist with a goatee and dreadlocks. It's funny and encouraging at the same time. Times are a changin and people are becoming more open minded and tolerant. When I grew up in the early 70's, all scientists on TV had buzz-cuts and looked like cops. So, perhaps this archaic anti-collecting attitude we go the same way as the dinosaurs. Just give it time. Seriously, next time you watch a science documentary (especially the ones about astronomy), take a look at the scientists they interview - you see a few old school types, but you also see the next young crop of up and coming scientists, and if looks are any gauge, then I feel hopeful that these exclusionary attitudes and snobbish views will disappear along with the buzz cuts and pocket protectors. ;) Best regards and happy hunting, MikeG PS - isn't the Smith publicly subsidized by tax payer money? If so, what right do they have to deny access to the specimens? On 1/29/10, meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com wrote: Hey List, It was my understanding that a local news station was called to the Lorton doctor's office, and then that TV news crew actually drove the meteorite to the Smithsonian for verification. At that time, it became obvious that it was a genuine meteorite and then efforts by the museum personnel were started to acquire this specimen for the museum. In any case, when I arrived at the fall site the next day after the story broke, with a Meteorite Men camera crew on my heels, Smithsonian personnel were there at the fall site, which I thought was great. You can't blame them for wanting to obtain the rock. In fact, there would be something wrong if they didn't want to acquire it. I will say that our Meteorite Men producers made extensive attempts to gain permission from the Smithsonian for me to come to the U.S. National Collection with a camera crew and shoot footage of Earth's newest alien visitor to appear in one of our upcoming February episodes. If the Lorton story would have played out big enough, it could have become its own episode, most likely running at the end of February or in March of this year. We were willing to pay the $1,000 shooting fee that the Smithsonian normally charges, but we were flatly denied ANY access to the Lorton specimen for our TV show. I am not sure of all of the reasons, and who made the actual decision to deny us and our audience the opportunity to see it first hand, but it seems that because the Smithsonian now has their own new cable TV network, and as such it is now their policy to not give any competing TV networks any access to shooting any of their stuff in their collections. We also wanted to film the actual Tucson Ring specimen, that is the centerpiece in the National Collection's public display, for this next Wednesday's episode of Meteorite Men, but we were flatly denied access a few months ago to shoot that as well. The February 3rd episode of Meteorite Men goes into the historical story of the Tucson Ring and of course, as the center piece to our National Collection now on display in Washington D.C., it's final resting place is an important part of the story of the greatest legend in all of meteorites. However, I was told that the powers that be at the Smithsonian did offer to sell us a black and white still photo of the Ring for $400 to use on the show. Nice of them, wasn't it? So, I don't think the problems we had this last week were related to the Lorton fall in particular, but seems to be a bigger bureaucratic problem elsewhere. Apparently, other networks have had severe access challenges lately in wanting to get footage of other national treasures since the Smithsonian cable network was formed. In our case it seems to be a real shame as it would have generated great PR for both our TV show and for the Smithsonian and for meteorites in general. Well, maybe one day, a few years down the road, we can look forward to the Smithsonian Cable TV Network running their own TV show about meteorites in general and maybe the Lorton specifically and we will all get to see it again. It is not my intention to paint the meteorite professionals at the National Collection in a bad light. In fact, I would invite them to respond here to give their side of the story. I have traded with the Smithsonian in the past and I even sold the Smithsonian some
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Museum in NC coming soon!
Greg, This is very good news. What city will the museum be in or near? Best, Ken On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 3:25 AM, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: Ive got great news today! I have been working on a project to open a meteorite and space museum here in my home state of North Carolina. After much effort, I am happy to announce that by this time next year, It will be open! I am looking to offer the schools in my area with free admission and educational tours. With luck, I will be able to introduce many school age children to the wonderful world of meteorites. I will be able to allow hands on learning and a place where not just kids, but anyone can get a chance to hold and learn about meteorites. The museum will be filled with my personal collection and a few samples that private collectors have been kind enough to offer on loan. I will update as it progresses and as the opening date draws near. I am looking to plan a grand opening that I hope will bring some of you this way. Thought I would share the news, hope everyone is doing good. Greg C. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Mars Rock Marquette Island
A real one! :-) - Original Message - From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 5:50 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] New Mars Rock Marquette Island List, Not sure if this posted here yet but, Does anybody know what type of new Mars rock this is? Thanks Carl http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/01/spirit-stops-roving-mars-as-opportunity-takes-time-to-drill.ars http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/4260521997/ Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking
Steve, Not to knock the Smithsonian but, . If you look back at the history of the way the Carlton (the other Tucson Iron with the Tucson Ring in the Smithsonian) was acquired. It adds yet another dimension to the story. A good argument could be made that The Carlton Meteorite was actually stolen and illegally seized by Colonel Carlton, The Following is a quote from Anvils from Heaven ; Seized and sent to San Francisco as a memorial to the march of his California column into Arizona. It was irrelevant whether the black smith Ramon Pacheco- who had found his anvil in the mountains south of Tucson, brought the heavy mass to town and owned and used it in his trade. Colonel Carlton seized and stole the meteorite , shipped it off to San Francisco and never did compensate Mr. Pacheco or the city of Tucson. Jeff says not now but, did the Government (Smithsonian) have the right to steal private property back them? Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax meteorh...@aol.com wrote: Hey List, It was my understanding that a local news station was called to the Lorton doctor's office, and then that TV news crew actually drove the meteorite to the Smithsonian for verification. At that time, it became obvious that it was a genuine meteorite and then efforts by the museum personnel were started to acquire this specimen for the museum. In any case, when I arrived at the fall site the next day after the story broke, with a Meteorite Men camera crew on my heels, Smithsonian personnel were there at the fall site, which I thought was great. You can't blame them for wanting to obtain the rock. In fact, there would be something wrong if they didn't want to acquire it. I will say that our Meteorite Men producers made extensive attempts to gain permission from the Smithsonian for me to come to the U.S. National Collection with a camera crew and shoot footage of Earth's newest alien visitor to appear in one of our upcoming February episodes. If the Lorton story would have played out big enough, it could have become its own episode, most likely running at the end of February or in March of this year. We were willing to pay the $1,000 shooting fee that the Smithsonian normally charges, but we were flatly denied ANY access to the Lorton specimen for our TV show. I am not sure of all of the reasons, and who made the actual decision to deny us and our audience the opportunity to see it first hand, but it seems that because the Smithsonian now has their own new cable TV network, and as such it is now their policy to not give any competing TV networks any access to shooting any of their stuff in their collections. We also wanted to film the actual Tucson Ring specimen, that is the centerpiece in the National Collection's public display, for this next Wednesday's episode of Meteorite Men, but we were flatly denied access a few months ago to shoot that as well. The February 3rd episode of Meteorite Men goes into the historical story of the Tucson Ring and of course, as the center piece to our National Collection now on display in Washington D.C., it's final resting place is an important part of the story of the greatest legend in all of meteorites. However, I was told that the powers that be at the Smithsonian did offer to sell us a black and white still photo of the Ring for $400 to use on the show. Nice of them, wasn't it? So, I don't think the problems we had this last week were related to the Lorton fall in particular, but seems to be a bigger bureaucratic problem elsewhere. Apparently, other networks have had severe access challenges lately in wanting to get footage of other national treasures since the Smithsonian cable network was formed. In our case it seems to be a real shame as it would have generated great PR for both our TV show and for the Smithsonian and for meteorites in general. Well, maybe one day, a few years down the road, we can look forward to the Smithsonian Cable TV Network running their own TV show about meteorites in general and maybe the Lorton specifically and we will all get to see it again. It is not my intention to paint the meteorite professionals at the National Collection in a bad light. In fact, I would invite them to respond here to give their side of the story. I have traded with the Smithsonian in the past and I even sold the Smithsonian some West specimens this last year. While the process was complicated and took a very long time, the people I worked with were great, and I consider them friends and colleagues in our celestial quest. I get the feeling that the challenges we face are in other departments other than theirs. I do know there is still some prejudice against the collecting community among some in governmental employed academia. There are those that still
[meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking
Steve wrote: “I am not sure of all of the reasons, and who made the actual decision to deny us and our audience the opportunity to see it first hand, but it seems that because the Smithsonian now has their own new cable TV network, and as such it is now their policy to not give any competing TV networks any access to shooting any of their stuff in their collections.” and “Apparently, other networks have had severe access challenges lately in wanting to get footage of other national treasures since the Smithsonian cable network was formed. In our case it seems to be a real shame as it would have generated great PR for both our TV show and for the Smithsonian and for meteorites in general.” Having had a little dealing with the Smithsonian in matters, unrelated to meteorites, the impression that got is that with continuing cuts in their federal funding, the Smithsonian has had to more and more rely on generating income from private sources. One result of this is that in order to generate income to support the operation of the museum, many activities have been commercialized, including the selling of exclusive, first come, media rights to certain newsworthy events. I doubt that any “prejudice against the collecting community” has anything to do with your treatment. It is simply that in order to generate income from private sources to replace federal budget cuts, they have sold the media rights to “discoveries,” like the Lorton meteorite, to a private company. I suspect that it is an outside company, not the Smithsonian, who now make the decisions on such matters. I suspect that a number of the people at the Smithsonian are as unhappy as you are with this state of affairs. However, it would be a bad career move for anyone to either openly or privately disagree with, express any displeasure of, or violate the contracts / agreements that they have with various outside companies. This growing commercilization and turning research into commodities managed by outside companies is a growing trend ion many museums. Go read: Caveat Venditor? Museum Merchandising, Nonprofit Commercialization, and the Case of the Metropolitan Museum in New York by Stephen Teopler in “International Journal of Voluntary and Nonprofit Organizations” at: http://www.springerlink.com/content/9229h92302851283/ MUSEUM MERCHANDISING: AN EXPLORATION OF ITS USES AND LIMITATIONS at: http://museumstudies.si.edu/Fellowships/toepler.html The cost of journal articles, like the above one, is another aspect of this problem. While working at an archaeological site, which I was working at and shall remain nameless, some friends of mine were prohibited from taking pictures of the site while visiting me because a well-known, national organization that was funding the dig had exclusive media rights as part of the funding agreement. Even I, theoretically was prohibited from taking my own personal pictures. However, since I actually worked there, people, the director just looked the other way. However, there were a couple of times when representatives from the funders were visiting, we all were told to hide our personal cameras for the duration of their visit. Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Museum in NC coming soon!
Hi Greg, Awesome! Once it's up and running, let us know if there is anything we can do or donate. :) Best regards, MikeG On 1/29/10, Ken Newton magellon@gmail.com wrote: Greg, This is very good news. What city will the museum be in or near? Best, Ken On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 3:25 AM, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: Ive got great news today! I have been working on a project to open a meteorite and space museum here in my home state of North Carolina. After much effort, I am happy to announce that by this time next year, It will be open! I am looking to offer the schools in my area with free admission and educational tours. With luck, I will be able to introduce many school age children to the wonderful world of meteorites. I will be able to allow hands on learning and a place where not just kids, but anyone can get a chance to hold and learn about meteorites. The museum will be filled with my personal collection and a few samples that private collectors have been kind enough to offer on loan. I will update as it progresses and as the opening date draws near. I am looking to plan a grand opening that I hope will bring some of you this way. Thought I would share the news, hope everyone is doing good. Greg C. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:44:30 -0500, you wrote: Something I have noticed in the last couple of years - more and more scientists have ponytails, dreadlocks, and tattoos. When I watch science documentaries on TV now, you often see a young scientist with a goatee and dreadlocks. It's funny and encouraging at the same time. So, like in so many other ways, wild-haired hippy Albert Einstein was ahead of his time... As long as scientists don't start having lip lenses. Lip lenses bound way beyond the line of look at them funny and to within easy reach of beat them to death with a shovel territory... http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/27/clear-lens-face-pier.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking
Steve wrote: “I am not sure of all of the reasons, and who made the actual decision to deny us and our audience the opportunity to see it first hand, but it seems that because the Smithsonian now has their own new cable TV network, and as such it is now their policy to not give any competing TV networks any access to shooting any of their stuff in their collections.” I may be wrong, but is the Smithsonian not supposed to be owned by the tax payers and US citizens? If this is the case, would we not legally be able to photograph and document items there as long as damage was not done? Perhaps some of the issue here is possible profit you/others could make off what you/they are doing and the fact the Smithsonian would not get a piece of the pie? I have never had dealings directly with them, but I have to say that I would rather a meteorite be there on display for all then for it to be cut into pieces and spread into a private collectors market with only a 20g/20% deposit available for the public to see. I do think some should be made public and Im sure some will eventually make its way into the market, most likely for the a good amount more then the $100 per gram price collectors would have likely been asked to pay (based on the trend recent falls have seen) It all depends on who offers them something they want that is not NWA material I guess. For all anyone knows, there may have been more found, just not made public yet... Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Paul H. oxytropidoce...@cox.net wrote: From: Paul H. oxytropidoce...@cox.net Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 4:39 PM Steve wrote: “I am not sure of all of the reasons, and who made the actual decision to deny us and our audience the opportunity to see it first hand, but it seems that because the Smithsonian now has their own new cable TV network, and as such it is now their policy to not give any competing TV networks any access to shooting any of their stuff in their collections.” and “Apparently, other networks have had severe access challenges lately in wanting to get footage of other national treasures since the Smithsonian cable network was formed. In our case it seems to be a real shame as it would have generated great PR for both our TV show and for the Smithsonian and for meteorites in general.” Having had a little dealing with the Smithsonian in matters, unrelated to meteorites, the impression that got is that with continuing cuts in their federal funding, the Smithsonian has had to more and more rely on generating income from private sources. One result of this is that in order to generate income to support the operation of the museum, many activities have been commercialized, including the selling of exclusive, first come, media rights to certain newsworthy events. I doubt that any “prejudice against the collecting community” has anything to do with your treatment. It is simply that in order to generate income from private sources to replace federal budget cuts, they have sold the media rights to “discoveries,” like the Lorton meteorite, to a private company. I suspect that it is an outside company, not the Smithsonian, who now make the decisions on such matters. I suspect that a number of the people at the Smithsonian are as unhappy as you are with this state of affairs. However, it would be a bad career move for anyone to either openly or privately disagree with, express any displeasure of, or violate the contracts / agreements that they have with various outside companies. This growing commercilization and turning research into commodities managed by outside companies is a growing trend ion many museums. Go read: Caveat Venditor? Museum Merchandising, Nonprofit Commercialization, and the Case of the Metropolitan Museum in New York by Stephen Teopler in “International Journal of Voluntary and Nonprofit Organizations” at: http://www.springerlink.com/content/9229h92302851283/ MUSEUM MERCHANDISING: AN EXPLORATION OF ITS USES AND LIMITATIONS at: http://museumstudies.si.edu/Fellowships/toepler.html The cost of journal articles, like the above one, is another aspect of this problem. While working at an archaeological site, which I was working at and shall remain nameless, some friends of mine were prohibited from taking pictures of the site while visiting me because a well-known, national organization that was funding the dig had exclusive media rights as part of the funding agreement. Even I, theoretically was prohibited from taking my own personal pictures. However, since I actually worked there, people, the
Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking
We were willing to pay the $1,000 shooting fee that the Smithsonian normally charges, $1000??? They are crazy??? M come Meteorite Meteoriti i...@mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking
This is something I really dont understand. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/28/AR2010012804235.html _ Quote: The Smithsonian is just trying to stay out of it. It will remain securely under the care of the Smithsonian until the ownership is established, said Randall Kremer, director of public affairs of the National Museum of Natural History. Right now, we accept the premise that the doctors are the owners. __ If that quote is true, does the Smithsonian not accept what the law states when following the premise that the doctors are the owners and not the property owner (as stated by US law)? Quote: The Lorton meteorite is worth $50,000, easy, said Robert A. Haag Do you not think the property owners have been told this? I am sure the landowners got a very nice offer for a considerable amount more then the $5000 offered by the Smithsonian, perhaps that has something to do with all this? Would you not put up a fight when you think/know you are going to lose out on a payday like that? Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites --- On Fri, 1/29/10, M come Meteorite Meteorites i...@mcomemeteorite.it wrote: From: M come Meteorite Meteorites i...@mcomemeteorite.it Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 5:00 PM We were willing to pay the $1,000 shooting fee that the Smithsonian normally charges, $1000??? They are crazy??? M come Meteorite Meteoriti i...@mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking
List: Watch the short video - and listen to the women say WHY, it's almost funny. Greg S. http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/local/ownership-of-meteorite-in-question-012910 Ownership of Meteorite in Question Who is the real owner of the meteorite that crashed into a doctor's office in Lorton, Va.? The doctor's, not surprisingly, said they are and they handed it over to the Smithsonian. But the landlords of the building where the doctor's office is said the meteorite belongs to them. They told the Smithsonian they're coming to take it back. Right now the Smithsonian says it's holding on to the space junk until ownership is established. _ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ?
Do you think the landowners would be so anxious to claim it, had the meteorite struck a patient? Just thinking, Ken On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 9:30 AM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Possession isn't nine-tenths of the law. It's nine-tenths of the problem. John Lennon -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ?
Strangely familiar: I think if you get 'hit' by a meteorite, then it is yours, regardless of where it falls. Greg S. http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1280 Hodges Meteorite Strike (Sylacauga Aerolite) On November 30, 1954, a meteorite crashed through the roof of a home in Sylacauga, Talladega County, striking resident Ann E. Hodges (1923-1972). She was the first person ever to have been injured by a meteorite, and the event caused a nationwide media sensation and a year-long legal battle. The meteorite, which weighs about eight and one-half pounds, is on permanent display at the Alabama Museum of Natural History at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. Hodges was napping on her living-room couch at mid-day when the meteorite came through the ceiling, hit a console radio, and smashed into her hip. Awakened by the pain and noise, she thought the gas space heater had exploded. When she noticed a grapefruit-sized rock lying on the floor and a ragged hole in the roof, she assumed children were the culprits. Her mother, Ida Franklin, rushed outside and saw only a black cloud in the sky. Alabamians in and around the area saw the event from a different perspective, with many reporting that they had seen a fireball in the sky and heard a tremendous explosion that produced a white or brownish cloud. Most assumed it involved an airplane accident. A meteorite crashed through the roof of the Hodges Meteorite StrikeSylacauga Chief of Police W. D. Ashcraft and Sylacauga mayor Ed Howard responded to the call from the Hodges's residence. They had Ann Hodges examined by physician Moody Jacobs, who determined that although her hip and hand were swollen and painful, there was no serious damage. (He later checked her into the hospital for several days to spare her from all the excitement.) Ashcraft and Howard showed the rock to geologist George Swindel, who was conducting fieldwork in the area. He tentatively identified the object as a meteorite. That evening they turned the meteorite over to officers from Maxwell Field, Montgomery, who took it to Air Force intelligence authorities for analysis. Air Force specialists identified it as a meteorite and sent it to curators at the Smithsonian Institution, who, delighted with their windfall, declined to send it back to Alabama. Not until Alabama Congressman Kenneth Roberts intervened was the meteorite finally returned to the state, where it soon became the focus of a highly public legal battle. By nightfall some 200 reporters and sightseers filled the Hodges's yard, and Ann's husband, Hewlett, arriving home late, was upset by the crowd. Television, radio and newspaper excitement lasted for weeks, highlighted by a very public dispute between the Hodges and Birdie Guy, from whom the Hodges rented their home. Facing repair expenses for the damaged house, Guy was advised by her attorney that legal precedent had established that meteorites were the property of the landowner, and she sued for possession of the rock. The Hodges threatened to counter-sue for Ann's injuries, and the outraged public sided with her. Before it went to trial, cooler heads prevailed and after a modest private settlement, Guy gave up her claim on the meteorite to the Hodges. Ann Hodges was barraged by publicity and appeared in Life magazine displaying a sizable bruise on her hip. She was persuaded to go to New York to appear on Gary Moore's TV quiz show I've Got a Secret. Her life story appeared in the Sunday magazine supplement of many Rosa Hall of the Alabama Museum of Natural Hodges Meteoritenewspapers and in national magazines. Hewlett Hodges believed that the couple stood to make a fortune from the incident. He refused what he considered an inadequate offer for the meteorite from the Smithsonian Institution, claiming he had received other offers as high as $5,500. In the end, Ann Hodges, not knowing how to bargain with the media, earned at most only a few hundred dollars from the incident that had made her famous. By 1956, the bad publicity surrounding the lawsuit ended the monetary offers, and she donated the meteorite to the Alabama Museum of Natural History. Ann Hodges's physical injuries healed, but she was never able to recover emotionally from her brush with celebrity. She and Hewlett separated in 1964. They both agreed that the emotional impact and disruption caused by the meteorite were contributing factors and said they wished it had never happened. Ann Hodges's health declined and in 1972, after some years as an invalid, she died. She is buried in the cemetery behind Charity Baptist Church in Hazel Green in Madison County. Probably the only major figure in the entire Sylacauga meteorite story to claim a satisfactory ending was Julius K. McKinney, a farmer who lived near the Hodges. On December 1, 1954, the day after Ann Hodges was struck, he discovered a second fragment of the meteorite in the
Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ?
Really good point. But the Hodges lady that did get hit and badly injured on her hip still lost the meteorite to the landlord. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Ken Newton magellon@gmail.com wrote: Do you think the landowners would be so anxious to claim it, had the meteorite struck a patient? Just thinking, Ken On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 9:30 AM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Possession isn't nine-tenths of the law. It's nine-tenths of the problem. John Lennon -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ?
Thank you, Greg! I've been thinking about poor Mrs. Hodges and her landlord all afternoon. I wondered when someone would bring up Sylacauga. Interesting that neither one of them ended up with the meteorite. It's looking like that might be the case with Lorton, as well. Hopefully other stones are found. Linton back to packing for Tucson now... - Original Message - From: Greg Stanley stanleygr...@hotmail.com To: magellon@gmail.com; cdtuc...@cox.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ? Strangely familiar: I think if you get 'hit' by a meteorite, then it is yours, regardless of where it falls. Greg S. http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1280 Hodges Meteorite Strike (Sylacauga Aerolite) On November 30, 1954, a meteorite crashed through the roof of a home in Sylacauga, Talladega County, striking resident Ann E. Hodges (1923-1972). She was the first person ever to have been injured by a meteorite, and the event caused a nationwide media sensation and a year-long legal battle. The meteorite, which weighs about eight and one-half pounds, is on permanent display at the Alabama Museum of Natural History at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. Hodges was napping on her living-room couch at mid-day when the meteorite came through the ceiling, hit a console radio, and smashed into her hip. Awakened by the pain and noise, she thought the gas space heater had exploded. When she noticed a grapefruit-sized rock lying on the floor and a ragged hole in the roof, she assumed children were the culprits. Her mother, Ida Franklin, rushed outside and saw only a black cloud in the sky. Alabamians in and around the area saw the event from a different perspective, with many reporting that they had seen a fireball in the sky and heard a tremendous explosion that produced a white or brownish cloud. Most assumed it involved an airplane accident. A meteorite crashed through the roof of the Hodges Meteorite StrikeSylacauga Chief of Police W. D. Ashcraft and Sylacauga mayor Ed Howard responded to the call from the Hodges's residence. They had Ann Hodges examined by physician Moody Jacobs, who determined that although her hip and hand were swollen and painful, there was no serious damage. (He later checked her into the hospital for several days to spare her from all the excitement.) Ashcraft and Howard showed the rock to geologist George Swindel, who was conducting fieldwork in the area. He tentatively identified the object as a meteorite. That evening they turned the meteorite over to officers from Maxwell Field, Montgomery, who took it to Air Force intelligence authorities for analysis. Air Force specialists identified it as a meteorite and sent it to curators at the Smithsonian Institution, who, delighted with their windfall, declined to send it back to Alabama. Not until Alabama Congressman Kenneth Roberts intervened was the meteorite finally returned to the state, where it soon became the focus of a highly public legal battle. By nightfall some 200 reporters and sightseers filled the Hodges's yard, and Ann's husband, Hewlett, arriving home late, was upset by the crowd. Television, radio and newspaper excitement lasted for weeks, highlighted by a very public dispute between the Hodges and Birdie Guy, from whom the Hodges rented their home. Facing repair expenses for the damaged house, Guy was advised by her attorney that legal precedent had established that meteorites were the property of the landowner, and she sued for possession of the rock. The Hodges threatened to counter-sue for Ann's injuries, and the outraged public sided with her. Before it went to trial, cooler heads prevailed and after a modest private settlement, Guy gave up her claim on the meteorite to the Hodges. Ann Hodges was barraged by publicity and appeared in Life magazine displaying a sizable bruise on her hip. She was persuaded to go to New York to appear on Gary Moore's TV quiz show I've Got a Secret. Her life story appeared in the Sunday magazine supplement of many Rosa Hall of the Alabama Museum of Natural Hodges Meteoritenewspapers and in national magazines. Hewlett Hodges believed that the couple stood to make a fortune from the incident. He refused what he considered an inadequate offer for the meteorite from the Smithsonian Institution, claiming he had received other offers as high as $5,500. In the end, Ann Hodges, not knowing how to bargain with the media, earned at most only a few hundred dollars from the incident that had made her famous. By 1956, the bad publicity surrounding the lawsuit ended the monetary offers, and she donated the meteorite to the Alabama Museum of Natural History. Ann Hodges's physical injuries healed, but she was never able to recover emotionally from her brush with celebrity. She and Hewlett
[meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ?
Michael and Listers, That was a good link to the Washington post about who owns the Lortan meteorite Michael, thank you for the good read. It will be interesting in the next few days how this event will play out between the land owners and the Smithsonian. Check this link out on the law of ownership and control of meteorites. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf Shawn Alan [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ?michael cottingham mikewren at gilanet.com Thu Jan 28 23:16:12 EST 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] THE OLDEST METEORITE ? Next message: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/28/AR2010012804235.html Cottingham Previous message: [meteorite-list] THE OLDEST METEORITE ? Next message: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Tucson Show - Meteorites
Hi Guys, Some photos and pieces for sale. LOTS more to come. BOOKMARK this page as I will be adding pieces to this page throughout the duration of the show. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tucson/ If you need something specific call or email. I'm also going to try to get some irons and pallasites listed too. Enjoy... Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 760-522-2152 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ?
In http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2010-January/060468.html , Richard Kowalski wrote: I find the comments amusing. It's pretty obvious that the rock belongs to the land owner, not the doctors. I just wonder if it dawned on them themselves or if someone contracted them about this. I'm not even suggesting one of the dealers mentioned in the article contacted the owner about this, but I wouldn't be surprised if some hunter contacted them to advise them of their rights... When the fall was first reported, it struck me as being strange that the doctors should to be claiming to be the owners when they likely were only renting it. In a similar vein, I noted that a person or two, who sold Park Forest meteorites to collectors said that they found their Park Forest meteorites in the street. In such a case, the real owners of those meteorites would be the city of Park Forest. Noboby seemed to question their ownership of their meteorites at that time. In http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2010-January/060498.html , Greg Stanley about the Hodges Meteorite Strike (Sylacauga Aerolite) wrote: On December 1, 1954, the day after Ann Hodges was struck, he discovered a second fragment of the meteorite in the middle of a dirt road. McKinney was able to sell his rock to the Smithsonian for enough to purchase a small farm and a used car. Although at that time, people failed to pay any attention to him having found it in a dirt road. If this dirt road was a county road, it seems like it really belonged to the county government. If it was a private dirt raod, it would belong the landowner, whose raod the land was on. It seemed like in this case, McKinney got away with finders keepers. I have always wondered about the case of a meteorite hitting a house or landed on a property, for which the owner was still paying off his or her mortgage. In such a case, would the mortgage company have partial claim to the ownership of the meteorite and debris from the impact? Would it have a say in how the meteorite was either sold or donated and a share of the profit from any sale of it? Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Distribution of Canyon Diablo meteorites at Meteor (Barringer) Crater ???
Dear Friends, Has anyone compiled and published a map showing how the various size fragments of Canyon Diablo meteorites were distributed by the impact around Meteor (Barringer) Crater in Arizona? If so, what has been inferred about the impact processes by the distribution of Canyon Diablo meteorites around it? Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ?
If there is some on the nearby military base who owns those pieces? Does this land fall under the same sort of regulations as other US federally owned land? Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Linton Rohr linton...@earthlink.net To: Greg Stanley stanleygr...@hotmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ? Thank you, Greg! I've been thinking about poor Mrs. Hodges and her landlord all afternoon. I wondered when someone would bring up Sylacauga. Interesting that neither one of them ended up with the meteorite. It's looking like that might be the case with Lorton, as well. Hopefully other stones are found. Linton back to packing for Tucson now... - Original Message - From: Greg Stanley stanleygr...@hotmail.com To: magellon@gmail.com; cdtuc...@cox.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ? Strangely familiar: I think if you get 'hit' by a meteorite, then it is yours, regardless of where it falls. Greg S. http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1280 Hodges Meteorite Strike (Sylacauga Aerolite) On November 30, 1954, a meteorite crashed through the roof of a home in Sylacauga, Talladega County, striking resident Ann E. Hodges (1923-1972). She was the first person ever to have been injured by a meteorite, and the event caused a nationwide media sensation and a year-long legal battle. The meteorite, which weighs about eight and one-half pounds, is on permanent display at the Alabama Museum of Natural History at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. Hodges was napping on her living-room couch at mid-day when the meteorite came through the ceiling, hit a console radio, and smashed into her hip. Awakened by the pain and noise, she thought the gas space heater had exploded. When she noticed a grapefruit-sized rock lying on the floor and a ragged hole in the roof, she assumed children were the culprits. Her mother, Ida Franklin, rushed outside and saw only a black cloud in the sky. Alabamians in and around the area saw the event from a different perspective, with many reporting that they had seen a fireball in the sky and heard a tremendous explosion that produced a white or brownish cloud. Most assumed it involved an airplane accident. A meteorite crashed through the roof of the Hodges Meteorite StrikeSylacauga Chief of Police W. D. Ashcraft and Sylacauga mayor Ed Howard responded to the call from the Hodges's residence. They had Ann Hodges examined by physician Moody Jacobs, who determined that although her hip and hand were swollen and painful, there was no serious damage. (He later checked her into the hospital for several days to spare her from all the excitement.) Ashcraft and Howard showed the rock to geologist George Swindel, who was conducting fieldwork in the area. He tentatively identified the object as a meteorite. That evening they turned the meteorite over to officers from Maxwell Field, Montgomery, who took it to Air Force intelligence authorities for analysis. Air Force specialists identified it as a meteorite and sent it to curators at the Smithsonian Institution, who, delighted with their windfall, declined to send it back to Alabama. Not until Alabama Congressman Kenneth Roberts intervened was the meteorite finally returned to the state, where it soon became the focus of a highly public legal battle. By nightfall some 200 reporters and sightseers filled the Hodges's yard, and Ann's husband, Hewlett, arriving home late, was upset by the crowd. Television, radio and newspaper excitement lasted for weeks, highlighted by a very public dispute between the Hodges and Birdie Guy, from whom the Hodges rented their home. Facing repair expenses for the damaged house, Guy was advised by her attorney that legal precedent had established that meteorites were the property of the landowner, and she sued for possession of the rock. The Hodges threatened to counter-sue for Ann's injuries, and the outraged public sided with her. Before it went to trial, cooler heads prevailed and after a modest private settlement, Guy gave up her claim on the meteorite to the Hodges. Ann Hodges was barraged by publicity and appeared in Life magazine displaying a sizable bruise on her hip. She was persuaded to go to New York to appear on Gary Moore's TV quiz show I've Got a Secret. Her life story appeared in the Sunday magazine supplement of many Rosa Hall of the Alabama Museum of Natural Hodges Meteoritenewspapers and in national magazines. Hewlett Hodges believed that the couple stood to make a fortune from the incident. He refused what he considered an inadequate offer for the meteorite from the Smithsonian Institution, claiming he had received other offers as high
Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking
I've always wondered why more scientists involved with meteorite study don't deal with private collectors more. My belief is that it's probably more of a personal thing and not nessicarily a tradition one. But the proof is in the pudding as the saying goes! Just look through the Met. Bull. from the last decade or two. Time after time you will find the scientists who are doing the majority of the work AND also the most important study are the ones who deal with collectors and dealers on a regular basis. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; meteorh...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 6:52 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and cool scientists thinking ... and may I add that not only are scientists these days sporting ponytails, dreadlocks and tattoos (and I know several), but more are of the female persuasion. Girl Power dude. On Jan 29, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Galactic Stone Ironworks wrote: Hi Steve and List, Great post and unfortunately very true. Something I have noticed in the last couple of years - more and more scientists have ponytails, dreadlocks, and tattoos. When I watch science documentaries on TV now, you often see a young scientist with a goatee and dreadlocks. It's funny and encouraging at the same time. Times are a changin and people are becoming more open minded and tolerant. When I grew up in the early 70's, all scientists on TV had buzz-cuts and looked like cops. So, perhaps this archaic anti-collecting attitude we go the same way as the dinosaurs. Just give it time. Seriously, next time you watch a science documentary (especially the ones about astronomy), take a look at the scientists they interview - you see a few old school types, but you also see the next young crop of up and coming scientists, and if looks are any gauge, then I feel hopeful that these exclusionary attitudes and snobbish views will disappear along with the buzz cuts and pocket protectors. ;) Best regards and happy hunting, MikeG PS - isn't the Smith publicly subsidized by tax payer money? If so, what right do they have to deny access to the specimens? On 1/29/10, meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com wrote: Hey List, It was my understanding that a local news station was called to the Lorton doctor's office, and then that TV news crew actually drove the meteorite to the Smithsonian for verification. At that time, it became obvious that it was a genuine meteorite and then efforts by the museum personnel were started to acquire this specimen for the museum. In any case, when I arrived at the fall site the next day after the story broke, with a Meteorite Men camera crew on my heels, Smithsonian personnel were there at the fall site, which I thought was great. You can't blame them for wanting to obtain the rock. In fact, there would be something wrong if they didn't want to acquire it. I will say that our Meteorite Men producers made extensive attempts to gain permission from the Smithsonian for me to come to the U.S. National Collection with a camera crew and shoot footage of Earth's newest alien visitor to appear in one of our upcoming February episodes. If the Lorton story would have played out big enough, it could have become its own episode, most likely running at the end of February or in March of this year. We were willing to pay the $1,000 shooting fee that the Smithsonian normally charges, but we were flatly denied ANY access to the Lorton specimen for our TV show. I am not sure of all of the reasons, and who made the actual decision to deny us and our audience the opportunity to see it first hand, but it seems that because the Smithsonian now has their own new cable TV network, and as such it is now their policy to not give any competing TV networks any access to shooting any of their stuff in their collections. We also wanted to film the actual Tucson Ring specimen, that is the centerpiece in the National Collection's public display, for this next Wednesday's episode of Meteorite Men, but we were flatly denied access a few months ago to shoot that as well. The February 3rd episode of Meteorite Men goes into the historical story of the Tucson Ring and of course, as the center piece to our National Collection now on display in Washington D.C., it's final resting place is an important part of the story of the greatest legend in all of meteorites. However, I was told that the powers that be at the Smithsonian did offer to sell us a black and white still photo of the Ring for $400 to use on the show. Nice of them, wasn't it? So, I don't think the problems we had this last week were related to the Lorton fall in particular, but seems to be a bigger bureaucratic problem elsewhere. Apparently, other networks have had severe access challenges lately
Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ?
Yep... cause it would be worth 1000 times more!!! ;-) Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Ken Newton magellon@gmail.com To: cdtuc...@cox.net Cc: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Lorton... or Lorton hears a Who ? Do you think the landowners would be so anxious to claim it, had the meteorite struck a patient? Just thinking, Ken On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 9:30 AM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Possession isn't nine-tenths of the law. It's nine-tenths of the problem. John Lennon -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tucson Photos
Hello List I added a few more photos taken today and yesterday. There not in order anymore. http://www.flickr.com/photos/46923...@n06/sets/72157623154261599/ Enjoy Keith V Chandler AZ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
