Re: [meteorite-list] Shielding of the Moon by earth
I see, but the other side of the moon does look a lot more heavily cratered than that "shielded" by Earth.. --- -Melanie IMCA: 2975 eBay: metmel2775 Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09 I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7. - Original Message From: Rob Matson To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, September 7, 2010 10:46:12 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Shielding of the Moon by earth Hi Melanie/List, The side of the Moon that faces the Earth is only ~barely~ shielded by the earth compared to the side facing away from Earth. In fact, I would be surprised if the difference is even detectable as far as cratering density. From the Moon's surface, the earth subtends about 1.9 degrees, so a Full Earth looks over 14 times larger (in "area") than does a Full Moon from earth. While that may seem large, the amount of angular space shielded by the earth is tiny -- about one part in 7000 for any portion of the lunar hemisphere with a view of the earth. In other words, square mile for square mile, if the earth had the Moon's vacuum, its surface would get hit just as often as the Moon's. --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Shielding of the Moon by earth
Hi Melanie, > I see, but the other side of the moon does look a lot more > heavily cratered than that "shielded" by Earth... I suspect this has more to do with the relative ages of the surfaces than the cratering rates. Maria are nearly absent from the lunar farside, and the nearside Maria have erased the evidence of earlier impact cratering. --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Shielding of the Moon by earth
Most of the shielding is done by earths gravity well not its area. If mars had no atmosphere it would look battered like the moon. And most of the material knocked off the moon is either returns to the moon or sucked in by earths gravity in a relatively short time. Some day there may be a witnessed lunar fall. Cheers Steve __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Shielding of the Moon by earth
Hi Steve, >is either returns to the moon or sucked in by earths gravity in a relatively short time. Relatively to what? Just googling around I found transit times of the lunaites from Moon to Earth between a couple of tens of thousands of years up to 8 million years. The travelling times of many Martian meteorites fall also well into that time frame. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Steve Dunklee Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. September 2010 12:13 An: miss_meteor...@yahoo.ca; mojave_meteori...@cox.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Shielding of the Moon by earth Most of the shielding is done by earths gravity well not its area. If mars had no atmosphere it would look battered like the moon. And most of the material knocked off the moon is either returns to the moon or sucked in by earths gravity in a relatively short time. Some day there may be a witnessed lunar fall. Cheers Steve __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 8, 2010
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_8_2010.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Witnessed fall lunars?still no clear answere
Hi everyone. You did a good job of thrashing my response without giving an answere to the original question. Why are there no lunar witnessed falls? DR kortev did say there are twice as many Martian impacts,which to me is a lot or many more. Another person questioned if they would have enough velocity to be seen which is a verry good point because some would reach terminal velocity much sooner than an object from mars or the astroid belt. The amount of time recovered lunars take to reach earth has been said to be the same as mars meteorites. I am beginning to believe it may be a matter of recognition. A lunar would reach terminal velocity 20 or more miles up and fall without making a sound. And if it did make a sound the person finding it would do everyones "is it a meteorite" test. Brown or green crust? Doesnt stick to a magnet.vesicles on the crust. Must not be a meteorite. And what size does it take to launch a rock from the moon?small would do it. Cheers Steve __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Witnessed fall lunars?still no clear answere
I think most of it comes from lack of recognition. Lunar meteorites do not seem to lose as much of their mass when entering the atmosphere so probably do not produce huge bolides. Chondrites, on the other hand generally burn up 90% or more, if they survive at all. For some reason, Martian meteorites tend to be larger in size so probably put out more light. For the most part, they have very black glossy crusts (Eucrite like) which makes them very easy to recognize. The Moroccans have proved that once a searcher has been taught what to look for, success is soon to follow if a reasonable effort is put forth. If I read Randy's site correctly, no lunar meteorites were found in Northwest Africa last year and the peak was around 4 or 5 years ago. Each and every lunar meteorite found in the hot deserts was a tough pull but it can be done. Now that we have gained all of this knowledge from the NWA gold rush which is now over, it is time to work the next plateau which most believe is the Mojave. Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Witnessed fall lunars?still no clear answere
Hi Because the people weren't there, when and where they felt, to witness them. General fall rates are a topic for its own, they range in the discussion from a few thousands up to 40,000 falls per year, where a nice stone is really dropped. And each year there are recovered from these thousands of falls always only zero to a dozen. And only the last 200 years meteorite falls were really noticed. http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/ Currently the database has 52000 valid & provisional meteorite entries. Means - I don't know - 36566 form Antarctica, average pairing rate let's say 5, 7300 original falls. 1200 witnessed falls. 2000 or so non-desert finds. 12,000 or so desert finds, let's say pairing rate 3... So extremely roughly guessed we have stuff from 15,000 different meteorite falls. Let's look... Antarcica 7000+ different fall events - 19 lunaites and 15 Martians. Oman, where the data are better than with NWA (hopefully not too much pairings will be artificially created? Switzerland?) 2800 numbers 22 lunaites and 4 Martians Falls 1200 0 lunaites and 4 Martians Sooo... observed falls are unsuspicious, regarding the problem that a lunaite wouldn't be recognized in the field, cause it is too similar to terrestrial rocks. Partially Antarctica too as partially the rocks were collected on sheer ice. Therefrom we can speculate, that lunaites fall much more rarely than asteroidial meteorites (id est all the other stuff, without Martians). Hence they are rare per se. With finds, well there we see, that from among 100-350 meteorites found and published meteorites 1 is a lunar. (Perhaps the ratio is even larger...with the desert finds, ordinary chondrites often aren't classified at present). But doesn't matter, that here is totally unscientifical :-) So. 99% of all meteorites aren't lunars (finds, falls stats) 99.9% of all meteorite falls aren't observed. Meteorite falls we tend to witness and to report so far only in a tiny window of 200 years. 1200 witnessed falls we have. This dairymaid calculation - we say here for a naïve fallacy - makes it at least for me plausible, why we haven't any observed lunar fall yet and it doesn't exclude that an observed fall could have happened in past among the 1200 observed ones and it neither excludes that it will happen in future! So I think the reason isn't so much a physical one, but it's only: Chance. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Steve Dunklee Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. September 2010 16:49 An: almi...@localnet.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Witnessed fall lunars?still no clear answere Hi everyone. You did a good job of thrashing my response without giving an answere to the original question. Why are there no lunar witnessed falls? DR kortev did say there are twice as many Martian impacts,which to me is a lot or many more. Another person questioned if they would have enough velocity to be seen which is a verry good point because some would reach terminal velocity much sooner than an object from mars or the astroid belt. The amount of time recovered lunars take to reach earth has been said to be the same as mars meteorites. I am beginning to believe it may be a matter of recognition. A lunar would reach terminal velocity 20 or more miles up and fall without making a sound. And if it did make a sound the person finding it would do everyones "is it a meteorite" test. Brown or green crust? Doesnt stick to a magnet.vesicles on the crust. Must not be a meteorite. And what size does it take to launch a rock from the moon?small would do it. Cheers Steve __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Witnessed fall lunars?still no clear answere
It could just be dumb chance. Most of the lunars found don't appear to have fallen recently. We might be in a period when, for the couple of hundred years since meteorites started to be recognized for what they are, no lunars arrived where humans were in a position to witness their arrival. My 2 Bessey Specks (which is about all I can afford of planetaries!) Best! Tracy > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 07:49:15 -0700 > From: steve.dunk...@yahoo.com > To: almi...@localnet.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Witnessed fall lunars?still no clear answere > > Hi everyone. You did a good job of thrashing my response without giving an > answere to the original question. Why are there no lunar witnessed falls? DR > kortev did say there are twice as many Martian impacts,which to me is a lot > or many more. Another person questioned if they would have enough velocity to > be seen which is a verry good point because some would reach terminal > velocity much sooner than an object from mars or the astroid belt. The amount > of time recovered lunars take to reach earth has been said to be the same as > mars meteorites. I am beginning to believe it may be a matter of recognition. > A lunar would reach terminal velocity 20 or more miles up and fall without > making a sound. And if it did make a sound the person finding it would do > everyones "is it a meteorite" test. Brown or green crust? Doesnt stick to a > magnet.vesicles on the crust. Must not be a meteorite. And what size does it > take to launch a rock from the moon?small would do it. > Cheers Steve > > > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Denver Attendees- Video Request
I am working on two different video projects about meteorites. The first is Serious the second is FUN. Dealers - I am wanting to casually interview any and all meteorite dealers I can and ask some simple questions: 1. What makes collecting meteorites interesting or exciting? 2. What do you recommend new collectors think about or buy? 3. What path or mentality should collectors follow as they grow as collectors? (I will include websites on the video to any Dealer I'll interview, to help draw traffic to you) Collectors - 1. Why is collecting meteorites fun? 2. What is your favorite specimen? Also, I will need to receive a release from anyone I interview, so I can use the video I shoot. The release is either verbal permission to use the interview video or written permission. I'll bring the release with me. The first video is going to be a pro-meteorite collecting documentary short that will raise awareness for meteorite collecting. The Second video is going to be a playful Spoof mockumentary, intended to be released on Youtube on April Fools or embedded as a secret Easter egg on a DVD project I have cooking. Essentially, anyone who agrees to participate will be asked a single question and you must respond with a complete dead-pan serious manner. No cracking up, laughing, or smiling. I refuse to release the question on the met-list, but you may email me if you will be in Denver and would like to participate. There is a sheet of answers that you will be allowed to respond with, unless you can crack me up with a better response. Anne Black and Greg Hupe, you have had custom responses written for you. FYI. -mt __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program
The public Meteorite Identification Program hosted by the Center for Meteorite Studies at Arizona State University has been suspended effective immediately (September 8th, 2010). We have had to suspend the program due to the substantial recent rise in demand as well as budget constraints and staff limitations. We are working on a more outreach-oriented program directed toward school-aged children, which we hope to have up and running in the near future. Sincerely, Dr. Laurence Garvie Center for Meteorite Studies Arizona State University __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program
Hi Laurence and List, This is sad news. I was about to mail you a big box of highly-weathered H-chondrites for classification. ;) Keep us updated on the new outreach program. :) Best regards, MikeG On 9/8/10, Laurence Garvie wrote: > The public Meteorite Identification Program hosted by the Center for > Meteorite Studies at Arizona State University has been suspended effective > immediately (September 8th, 2010). We have had to suspend the program due to > the substantial recent rise in demand as well as budget constraints and > staff limitations. We are working on a more outreach-oriented program > directed toward school-aged children, which we hope to have up and running > in the near future. > > Sincerely, > > Dr. Laurence Garvie > Center for Meteorite Studies > Arizona State University > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program
Yes, it was just a matter of time. You can only tie up your resources looking at so many meteorite wrongs before it interferes with budget and time management. I no longer look at solicited/suspected meteorites from unknown parties for the same reasons. Most think their finds are going to make them the latest millionaires and do not want to hear the truth. Dreams are free unless you are the one characterizing the object. Some get very angry when you tell them what they have is not a meteorite and they are not that easy to find regardless of what they saw on TV or read on some website. You can only be abused so many times before the process becomes less enjoyable. Here is to finding real meteorites! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program
I would think a "paid" meteorite identification service might alleviate some of the burden of abuse. This would have a screening effect on those that would normally be adamant that their Earth rock is a meteorite even in the presence of evidence it's not. People that won't take no for an answer probably wouldn't spend money to have it examined professionally in the first place. Supplement your time with a small fee. This will weed out those in denial. Eric On 9/8/2010 11:26 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: Yes, it was just a matter of time. You can only tie up your resources looking at so many meteorite wrongs before it interferes with budget and time management. I no longer look at solicited/suspected meteorites from unknown parties for the same reasons. Most think their finds are going to make them the latest millionaires and do not want to hear the truth. Dreams are free unless you are the one characterizing the object. Some get very angry when you tell them what they have is not a meteorite and they are not that easy to find regardless of what they saw on TV or read on some website. You can only be abused so many times before the process becomes less enjoyable. Here is to finding real meteorites! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater
Hi List, Here is a photo of the alleged impact crater caused by the recent "meteorite fall" in Columbia. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/columbia-crater.jpg Opinions? To me, it doesn't quite look right. Best regards, MikeG -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Witnessed fall lunars?
Dear Sterling: Thanks so much for that enlightening explanation! Randy Korotev At 10:32 PM 2010-09-07 Tuesday, you wrote: Hi, Lunar Gang, and List, We have a situation here that needs straightening out. Escaping from the Moon is one thing. Getting to the Earth is another. Here's how it starts. An object is propelled off the lunar surface (doesn't matter how). As soon as it's no longer in contact with the force that impelled it, its speed can't increase. It can decrease, though, and it does. Lunar gravity will pull down on it, reducing its speed at the same rate it would gain if it fell. It goes slower and slower. Eventually, its speed will fall to zero and it will reverse course and start to fall back. UNLESS its starting velocity is above or at the Moon's escape velocity. It takes 2380 meters/sec to escape to the point 38,000 miles from the Moon's center to where the gravitation pull of the Earth and the Moon are equal. If the rock started with 2381 m/sec, it will get there moving at 1 m/sec, a crawl. After that, the important thing is: which way was it headed? Surrounding the Moon is a distorted spherical (parabolic) envelope with its "pocket" pointing directly at Earth that outlines that balancing point between the Earth's and the Moon's "pull." It's called the Hill Sphere (for any body). The Hill Sphere, or equipotential point for the Moon, is at a radius of about 38,000 miles, still over 200,000 miles from earth. If a Lunar escapee has enough speed to reach the Moon's Hill Sphere and cross over, it will be under the control of the Earth's gravitational field. The Moon has only 1/81.3 of the mass of the Earth, so the balance point between them is much closer to the Moon than the Earth. Oh, if it was going very fast, it could escape the Earth too, but the odds against that are great. No, that rock is dam lucky to have made it to the Translunar Gravitational Equipotential Point for its flight. In general, since Lunar escape velocity is low compared to the Earth's, if a rock just barely escapes, by the time it crosses the Border, it would be moving very slowly, almost standing still. From the viewpoint of the Earth, it's like someone carried a rock 'way out there and while "standing still" far from Earth, dropped it. Like so many borders, once you cross it, you're in another jurisdiction. The Moon no longer has any say in what happens to the rock that crosses the Hill Sphere Border. Slowly at first, it begins to fall toward Earth, but it moves faster and faster, eventually acquiring (up to) 11,233 meters/sec, plus any starting speed, blah, blah... Will it curve and swerve and head straight for the Earth's central spot? No, not often. There are a variety of outcomes and few of them will get a rock to land on Earth. Many will end up co-orbiting the Sun along with the Earth and will eventually tangle with the Big Mother Planet again. Some, that are headed more or less toward the Earth to begin with will scream past in an asymptotic pass, whipping around the Earth, changing direction and picking up speed, in a home grown version of the "gravity well" maneuver. They will tossed far and gone, in a gentler version of what Jupiter does to anything gets near it. But only if they miss... Some of those headed our way, a small percentage, will actually "strike" the Earth, or come in at a steep angle. They might survive to the ground... or they might not. A few, we lucky few, will graze the top of the Earth's atmosphere tangentially, in a flat trajectory roughly parallel to the surface of the planet, at about zero degrees of altitude (relative to us). They will be moving between 11,186 meters/sec and 13,466 meters/sec and their chances of landing are As Good As It Gets. That's the simple view from Physics 101. It turns out to be more complicated, however. NOW, we have to turn the question around and look at it from the Moon's and the Rock's perspective. If you're a rock looking to get the Earth, what's the best way to leave home? That will determine what happens to you in the long run. So, imagine you're an indecisive rock staring at the black Lunar sky... If you aim for where the Earth is NOW, it won't be there when you arrive. so which way do I go?! There are no signposts and no obvious solution... Now, it's time to introduce you to Barbara E. Shute. Her work can be found at the NASA Technical Reports Server: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?No=10&Ne=35&N=4294963886&Ns=ArchiveName|0&as=false I suggest "Dynamical behavior of ejecta from the moon. Part I - Initial conditions," a PDF of which can be found at: http://hdl.handle.net/2060/19660021054 It's just what that rock is looking for --- a road map to Earth! However, this is pretty heavy lifting if your orbital mechanics are rusty, like mine, although no doubt Rob Matson will eat it up and ask for please, another bowl, sir? First, the Moon, OUR Moon, is odd. It's a long way from the Earth and its orbital velocity (1022 m/sec) is much slow
Re: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater
The proof is in the pudding, the pudding here is meteorite fragments/ejecta. Ted On 9/8/10 11:39 AM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" wrote: > Hi List, > > Here is a photo of the alleged impact crater caused by the recent > "meteorite fall" in Columbia. > > http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/columbia-crater.jpg > > Opinions? > > To me, it doesn't quite look right. > > Best regards, > > MikeG __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater
That's actually a photo of the Latvian hoax crater from this past year. -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic Stone & Ironworks Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:39 AM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater Hi List, Here is a photo of the alleged impact crater caused by the recent "meteorite fall" in Columbia. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/columbia-crater.jpg Opinions? To me, it doesn't quite look right. Best regards, MikeG -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Witnessed fall lunars?
Sterling - very well done, indeed. Ted Bunch On 9/8/10 11:39 AM, "Randy Korotev" wrote: > Dear Sterling: > > Thanks so much for that enlightening explanation! > > Randy Korotev > > > At 10:32 PM 2010-09-07 Tuesday, you wrote: >> Hi, Lunar Gang, and List, >> >> We have a situation here that needs straightening >> out. >> >> Escaping from the Moon is one thing. Getting >> to the Earth is another. Here's how it starts. >> >> An object is propelled off the lunar surface >> (doesn't matter how). As soon as it's no longer >> in contact with the force that impelled it, its >> speed can't increase. >> >> It can decrease, though, and it does. Lunar >> gravity will pull down on it, reducing its speed >> at the same rate it would gain if it fell. It goes >> slower and slower. Eventually, its speed will fall >> to zero and it will reverse course and start to >> fall back. >> >> UNLESS its starting velocity is above or at the >> Moon's escape velocity. It takes 2380 meters/sec >> to escape to the point 38,000 miles from the Moon's >> center to where the gravitation pull of the Earth >> and the Moon are equal. If the rock started with >> 2381 m/sec, it will get there moving at 1 m/sec, >> a crawl. After that, the important thing is: which >> way was it headed? >> >> Surrounding the Moon is a distorted spherical >> (parabolic) envelope with its "pocket" pointing >> directly at Earth that outlines that balancing >> point between the Earth's and the Moon's "pull." >> It's called the Hill Sphere (for any body). The Hill >> Sphere, or equipotential point for the Moon, is >> at a radius of about 38,000 miles, still over 200,000 >> miles from earth. >> >> If a Lunar escapee has enough speed to reach the >> Moon's Hill Sphere and cross over, it will be under >> the control of the Earth's gravitational field. The >> Moon has only 1/81.3 of the mass of the Earth, so >> the balance point between them is much closer >> to the Moon than the Earth. >> >> Oh, if it was going very fast, it could escape the >> Earth too, but the odds against that are great. No, >> that rock is dam lucky to have made it to the >> Translunar Gravitational Equipotential Point for >> its flight. >> >> In general, since Lunar escape velocity is low >> compared to the Earth's, if a rock just barely escapes, >> by the time it crosses the Border, it would be moving >> very slowly, almost standing still. From the viewpoint >> of the Earth, it's like someone carried a rock 'way out >> there and while "standing still" far from Earth, dropped it. >> >> Like so many borders, once you cross it, you're in >> another jurisdiction. The Moon no longer has any >> say in what happens to the rock that crosses the >> Hill Sphere Border. >> >> Slowly at first, it begins to fall toward Earth, but it moves >> faster and faster, eventually acquiring (up to) 11,233 >> meters/sec, plus any starting speed, blah, blah... >> Will it curve and swerve and head straight for the >> Earth's central spot? >> >> No, not often. There are a variety of outcomes and >> few of them will get a rock to land on Earth. Many will >> end up co-orbiting the Sun along with the Earth and >> will eventually tangle with the Big Mother Planet again. >> >> Some, that are headed more or less toward the Earth >> to begin with will scream past in an asymptotic pass, >> whipping around the Earth, changing direction and >> picking up speed, in a home grown version of the >> "gravity well" maneuver. They will tossed far and gone, >> in a gentler version of what Jupiter does to anything >> gets near it. >> >> But only if they miss... >> >> Some of those headed our way, a small percentage, >> will actually "strike" the Earth, or come in at a steep >> angle. They might survive to the ground... or they >> might not. >> >> A few, we lucky few, will graze the top of the Earth's >> atmosphere tangentially, in a flat trajectory roughly >> parallel to the surface of the planet, at about zero >> degrees of altitude (relative to us). They will be moving >> between 11,186 meters/sec and 13,466 meters/sec >> and their chances of landing are As Good As It Gets. >> >> That's the simple view from Physics 101. It turns out >> to be more complicated, however. >> >> NOW, we have to turn the question around and look >> at it from the Moon's and the Rock's perspective. If you're >> a rock looking to get the Earth, what's the best way to >> leave home? That will determine what happens to you >> in the long run. >> >> So, imagine you're an indecisive rock staring at the >> black Lunar sky... If you aim for where the Earth is >> NOW, it won't be there when you arrive. so which way >> do I go?! There are no signposts and no obvious solution... >> >> Now, it's time to introduce you to Barbara E. Shute. Her >> work can be found at the NASA Technical Reports Server: >> http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?No=10&Ne=35&N=4294963886&Ns=ArchiveName|0&as= >> false >> >> I suggest "Dynamical behavior of ejecta from the moo
Re: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater
Somebody posted that on Facebook and said it was a photo of the Columbian crater. LOL I guess I need to go burst that person's bubble even further now. On 9/8/10, Mike Bandli wrote: > That's actually a photo of the Latvian hoax crater from this past year. > > -- > Mike Bandli > Historic Meteorites > www.HistoricMeteorites.com > and join us on Facebook: > www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 > IMCA #5765 > --- > > -Original Message- > From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic > Stone & Ironworks > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:39 AM > To: Meteorite List > Subject: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater > > Hi List, > > Here is a photo of the alleged impact crater caused by the recent > "meteorite fall" in Columbia. > > http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/columbia-crater.jpg > > Opinions? > > To me, it doesn't quite look right. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > -- > -- > Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites > > Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com > Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone > News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 > Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone > EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 > --- > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program
Eric, I'm not sure if you've "run the numbers" on what such a service would cost, but lets talk a few numbers, that I admit are essentially pulled out of thin air. Salary for a full time researcher, with no benefits, $35000 per year (and that's on the low side) Lab, minimum cost of $1000 per month, just for the space, with no equipment. Lab costs, minimum of $100 per hour. Lab equipment, I won't even make a guess at this, but minimum, would be many 10s of thousands of dollars for a properly equipped lab. So, say the researcher can spend 5 full hours each day actually examining & studying the specimens. The rest of the day is spent doing other related tasks. That means 25 hours per week or 1250 hours per year (only two weeks vacation per year) Using the three numbers I cite $35,000 + $12,000 + 125,000 means that at a minimum a facility would need to charge at least $137.60 per hour just to break even on these costs. Of course many institutions charge overhead of as much as 50% so now that hourly cost is double. If you provide the researcher with any benefits at all and you have to equip the lab with even a high quality polarizing microscope, your hourly costs go up in proportion to how much equipment is in the lab and how rapidly those costs can be depreciated. Need another employee that deals with administration? Well your hourly fees have to go up again. Agreed that if you offer a service that at has a minimum fee of $300 just to open the package and let you know you have a meteor-wrong, most of these submissions will vanish. However, how many people would be willing to spend the $300 base fee to be told by an expert, in effect "certify" the rock they know is a meteorite in fact a meteorite? How many of those would then pay the many hundred or thousands of dollars more for this commercial company to classify the meteorite? Few to none I suspect. As I said I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air, but I'd guess that those of you getting meteorites classified, if you are paying under several hundred dollars per hour in fees to get it done, are getting an incredible bargain. This is often because the costs are passed on to the taxpayer that funds your institution of choice. I doubt any of the meteoriticists doing this at an institution have figured out a per hour or per classification cost, but my guess is that my estimate is well below actual costs. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Meteorites USA wrote: > From: Meteorites USA > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification > program > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 11:40 AM > I would think a "paid" meteorite > identification service might alleviate some of the burden of > abuse. This would have a screening effect on those that > would normally be adamant that their Earth rock is a > meteorite even in the presence of evidence it's not. People > that won't take no for an answer probably wouldn't > spend money to have it examined professionally in the first > place. Supplement your time with a small fee. This will weed > out those in denial. > > Eric > > > On 9/8/2010 11:26 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: > > Yes, it was just a matter of time. You can only > tie up your resources looking > > at so many meteorite wrongs before it interferes with > budget and time > > management. I no longer look at > solicited/suspected meteorites from unknown > > parties for the same reasons. Most think their finds > are going to make them the > > latest millionaires and do not want to hear the > truth. Dreams are free unless > > you are the one characterizing the object. Some get > very angry when you tell > > them what they have is not a meteorite and they are > not that easy to find > > regardless of what they saw on TV or read on some > website. You can only be > > abused so many times before the process becomes less > enjoyable. > > > > > > Here is to finding real meteorites! > > > > Adam > > __ > > Visit the Archives at > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater
Besides it being on the wrong side of the planet, and being much smaller than claimed, one would expect to see some evidence of an ejecta blanket outside the perimeter rim. So as Ted mentioned, you need meteorites and ejecta both... -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tally-Ho! Deep Impact Spacecraft Eyes Comet Target (Comet Hartley 2)
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-291 Tally-Ho! Deep Impact Spacecraft Eyes Comet Target Jet Propulsion Laboratory September 08, 2010 On Sunday, Sept. 5, NASA's Deep Impact spacecraft beamed down the first of more than 64,000 images it's expected to take of Comet Hartley 2. The spacecraft, now on an extended mission known as EPOXI, has an appointment with the comet on Nov. 4, 2010. It will use all three of the spacecraft's instruments (two telescopes with digital color cameras and an infrared spectrometer) to scrutinize Hartley 2 for more than two months. "Like any tourist who can't wait to get to a destination, we have already begun taking pictures of our comet -- Hartley 2," said Tim Larson, the project manager for EPOXI from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. "We have to wait for Nov. 4 to get the close-up pictures of the cometary nucleus, but these approach images should keep the science team busy for quite some time as well." The imaging campaign, along with data from all the instruments aboard Deep Impact, will afford the mission's science team the best extended view of a comet in history during its pass through the inner solar system. With the exception of one, six-day break to calibrate instruments and perform a trajectory correction maneuver, the spacecraft will continuously monitor Hartley 2's gas and dust output for the next 79 days. This first image of comet Hartley 2 taken by Deep Impact was obtained by the spacecraft's Medium Resolution Imager on Sept. 5 when the spacecraft was 60 million kilometers (37.2 million miles) away from the comet. EPOXI is an extended mission that utilizes the already "in flight" Deep Impact spacecraft to explore distinct celestial targets of opportunity. The name EPOXI itself is a combination of the names for the two extended mission components: the extrasolar planet observations, called Extrasolar Planet Observations and Characterization (EPOCh), and the flyby of comet Hartley 2, called the Deep Impact Extended Investigation (DIXI). The spacecraft will continue to be referred to as "Deep Impact." NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manages the EPOXI mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. The University of Maryland, College Park, is home to the mission's principal investigator, Michael A'Hearn. Drake Deming of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md., is the science lead for the mission's extrasolar planet observations. The spacecraft was built for NASA by Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp., Boulder, Colo. For more information about EPOXI visit http://epoxi.umd.edu/ . DC Agle (818) 393-9011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. a...@jpl.nasa.gov 2010-291 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program
Hi Richard and List, Excellent post. :) Of course, the best verification service with the lowest cost is this mailing list. If anyone out there has a suspect rock, they are free to share photos and a description with this list, and we will render a collective opinion. This opinion will rule out all obvious meteorwrongs and only those specimens which are promising will pass the litmus test of this list. Once a specimen receives this list's blessing, the owner can then decide whether to have it formally analyzed. But, like Adam said, many people do not want to hear that their prized rock that grandpa said is a meteorite, is not a meteorite. But, as far as "bang for the buck" goes, the collective expertise of this list is hard to beat for the price. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 9/8/10, Richard Kowalski wrote: > Eric, > > I'm not sure if you've "run the numbers" on what such a service would cost, > but lets talk a few numbers, that I admit are essentially pulled out of thin > air. > > Salary for a full time researcher, with no benefits, $35000 per year (and > that's on the low side) > Lab, minimum cost of $1000 per month, just for the space, with no equipment. > Lab costs, minimum of $100 per hour. > Lab equipment, I won't even make a guess at this, but minimum, would be many > 10s of thousands of dollars for a properly equipped lab. > > > So, say the researcher can spend 5 full hours each day actually examining & > studying the specimens. The rest of the day is spent doing other related > tasks. That means 25 hours per week or 1250 hours per year (only two weeks > vacation per year) > > Using the three numbers I cite $35,000 + $12,000 + 125,000 means that at a > minimum a facility would need to charge at least $137.60 per hour just to > break even on these costs. Of course many institutions charge overhead of as > much as 50% so now that hourly cost is double. > > If you provide the researcher with any benefits at all and you have to equip > the lab with even a high quality polarizing microscope, your hourly costs go > up in proportion to how much equipment is in the lab and how rapidly those > costs can be depreciated. Need another employee that deals with > administration? Well your hourly fees have to go up again. > > Agreed that if you offer a service that at has a minimum fee of $300 just to > open the package and let you know you have a meteor-wrong, most of these > submissions will vanish. However, how many people would be willing to spend > the $300 base fee to be told by an expert, in effect "certify" the rock they > know is a meteorite in fact a meteorite? How many of those would then pay > the many hundred or thousands of dollars more for this commercial company to > classify the meteorite? Few to none I suspect. > > As I said I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air, but I'd guess that > those of you getting meteorites classified, if you are paying under several > hundred dollars per hour in fees to get it done, are getting an incredible > bargain. This is often because the costs are passed on to the taxpayer that > funds your institution of choice. > > I doubt any of the meteoriticists doing this at an institution have figured > out a per hour or per classification cost, but my guess is that my estimate > is well below actual costs. > > -- > Richard Kowalski > Full Moon Photography > IMCA #1081 > > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Meteorites USA wrote: > >> From: Meteorites USA >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification >> program >> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 11:40 AM >> I would think a "paid" meteorite >> identification service might alleviate some of the burden of >> abuse. This would have a screening effect on those that >> would normally be adamant that their Earth rock is a >> meteorite even in the presence of evidence it's not. People >> that won't take no for an answer probably wouldn't >> spend money to have it examined professionally in the first >> place. Supplement your time with a small fee. This will weed >> out those in denial. >> >> Eric >> >> >> On 9/8/2010 11:26 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: >> > Yes, it was just a matter of time. You can only >> tie up your resources looking >> > at so many meteorite wrongs before it interferes with >> budget and time >> > management. I no longer look at >> solicited/suspected meteorites from unknown >> > parties for the same reasons. Most think their finds >> are going to make them the >> > latest millionaires and do not
Re: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater
The only thing the "crater" in the photo is missing is shovel marks and heavy equipment tracks. And meteorites, and ejecta, and credibility. On 9/8/10, Richard Kowalski wrote: > Besides it being on the wrong side of the planet, and being much smaller > than claimed, one would expect to see some evidence of an ejecta blanket > outside the perimeter rim. So as Ted mentioned, you need meteorites and > ejecta both... > > > -- > Richard Kowalski > Full Moon Photography > IMCA #1081 > > > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] UMD-Led Team Begins Imaging Comet Hartley 2 with Deep Impact Spacecraft
http://newsdesk.umd.edu/global/release.cfm?ArticleID=2224 September 8, 2010 Contact: Lee Tune +1 301-405-4679 lt...@umd.edu UMD-LED TEAM BEGINS IMAGING COMET HARTLEY 2 WITH DEEP IMPACT SPACECRAFT Images: http://epoxi.umd.edu/3gallery/Hartley2_first_light.shtml Some five years after its July 4th 2005 'comet shot' was seen around the world, the Deep Impact spacecraft has begun regular imaging of a second comet target, Hartley 2. The spacecraft will continue imaging Hartley 2 during and after its closest approach on November 4, providing an extended look at the comet. However, there won't be any fireworks this time as the Deep Impact's secondary probe craft was destroyed in its deliberate 2005 collision with comet Tempel 1. The flyby of comet Hartley 2 is the second leg of the Deep Impact spacecraft's two part extended mission known as EPOXI. During the flyby of Hartley 2, the University of Maryland-led science team will study the comet using all three of the spacecraft's instruments -- two telescopes with digital color cameras and an infrared spectrometer. "These first images mark the beginning of the EPOXI mission's encounter campaign and the beginning of the Deep Impact spacecraft's stretch run toward Hartley 2," said University of Maryland astronomer Michael A'Hearn, principal investigator for the EPOXI mission and its predecessor mission, Deep Impact. "From here on, we expect to get better and better observations of the comet, culminating in images and data taken in the days just before and just after the November 4th flyby." The imaging campaign, together with spectra and other data obtained from the spacecraft, will afford the mission's science team with the best extended view of a comet during its pass through the inner-solar system in history. With the exception of one, six-day break to calibrate instruments and perform a trajectory correction maneuver, the spacecraft will continuously monitor Hartley 2's gas and dust output for the next 79 days. "Previous missions to comets, including Deep Impact, have shown us comets that seem to be very different. However, we hope data from the Deep Impact spacecraft's flyby of Hartley 2, which has a much smaller nucleus than the previously visited comets, will help us to understand why they appear so different. said A'Hearn, who won the 2008 American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics Space Science Award for his leadership of the spacecraft's Deep Impact mission to comet Tempel 1. A'Hearn also won the 2008 Kuiper astronomy prize for seminal contributions over his career to the study of comets, prominently including the Deep Impact mission. "The next cometary missions, Stardust NExT and ESA's Rosetta mission, will lead to additional breakthroughs in understanding what comets can tell us about the formation of the solar system," said A'Hearn. EPOXI is an extended mission that used the already "in flight" Deep Impact spacecraft to explore distinct celestial targets of opportunity prior to it heading for comet Hartley 2. The name EPOXI is a combination of the names for the two extended mission components: the extrasolar planet observations, called Extrasolar Planet Observations and Characterization (EPOCh), and the flyby of comet Hartley 2, called the Deep Impact Extended Investigation (DIXI). Note -- while the mission name has been changed to EPOXI the spacecraft will continue to be referred to as "Deep Impact." # # # The University of Maryland is the Principal Investigator institution for the mission. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manages the EPOXI mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Drake Deming of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland, is the science lead for the mission's extrasolar planet observations. The spacecraft was Aerospace & Technologies Corp., Boulder, Colo. Keep up with news of the spacecraft's flight to Hartley 2 in the Daily Comet: http://epoxi.umd.edu/6outreach/daily.shtml __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - September 8, 2010
MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES September 8, 2010 o Glacier? http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_018857_2225 o Mantling Material on Crater Floor http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001507_1400 o Scarp and Channels in a Crater in Terra Cimmeria http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001936_1370 o Gullies in Trough near Gorgonum Chaos http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_002014_1415 o Alluvial Fan along a Crater Wall http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_003269_1600 o Valleys on the Ejecta Blanket from Cerulli Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_003312_2145 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater
Or somebody's drug lab exploded...any white powdery residue left in the crater ?? -- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 14:39:05 -0400 From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" Subject: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater To: Meteorite List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi List, Here is a photo of the alleged impact crater caused by the recent "meteorite fall" in Columbia. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/columbia-crater.jpg Opinions? To me, it doesn't quite look right. Best regards, MikeG -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater
To my eyes the vegetation in the background looks wrong for Columbia. Also the woman is wearing an unsuitable coat for the tropics. My 2 cents. Chris Spratt Victoria, BC (Via my iPhone) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program
Hi Richard, Great post, and points... I agree that the numbers won't work when actually 'classifying' meteorites, or even using a university lab to visually examine a suspect/possible meteorite. The small "fee" would be insignificant and not economically practical I understand for a university lab. Besides that, there is a process already in place for classification. This I would hazard a guess is why ASU is stopping their meteorite ID program. It's just not cost effective and it bogs down the real classification work. I was not referring to a university lab being used in the "identification" process though. There is a clear distinction between identification and classification in the meteorite world. Classifying a meteorite is a completely different story than IDing a piece of magnetite. This is a two edged sword I know. My point is this. It's worth the small "fee" for a private sector business to "weed" through the 1000 meteorwrong submissions to get to the 1 that has a better chance of being a meteorite. This in turn frees up the time of the university lab scientist to do actual classification work. His/her time is now spent on "pre-qualified" leads/submissions instead of non-meteorites and it becomes much more efficient. Prequalifying suspect meteorites through this process would work to alleviate the abuse, and would weed out those false meteorites at the same time. The numbers I ran are simple. Most meteorite people I know make between $25/hr-$50/hr in their day jobs. It might be worth a $25-$50 fee for meteorite experts to field the meteorwrong submissions, to get to that .1% that are meteorites before submitting them to a lab. Visually examining a suspect stone takes less than 1 hour of time to get a reasonable and accurate idea whether a stone is a meteorite or hunk of basalt. I would put forth there are many meteorite experts here on list and within the meteorite world that can identify a suspect meteorite with a very high degree of accuracy. Most are very experienced in spotting/examining the obvious magnetite, basalt, and river rocks that are constantly submitted by finders. At the very least it would shrink the pool of wrongs, and increase the percentage of meteorites submitted to the labs for classification. Eric On 9/8/2010 1:37 PM, Richard Kowalski wrote: Eric, I'm not sure if you've "run the numbers" on what such a service would cost, but lets talk a few numbers, that I admit are essentially pulled out of thin air. Salary for a full time researcher, with no benefits, $35000 per year (and that's on the low side) Lab, minimum cost of $1000 per month, just for the space, with no equipment. Lab costs, minimum of $100 per hour. Lab equipment, I won't even make a guess at this, but minimum, would be many 10s of thousands of dollars for a properly equipped lab. So, say the researcher can spend 5 full hours each day actually examining& studying the specimens. The rest of the day is spent doing other related tasks. That means 25 hours per week or 1250 hours per year (only two weeks vacation per year) Using the three numbers I cite $35,000 + $12,000 + 125,000 means that at a minimum a facility would need to charge at least $137.60 per hour just to break even on these costs. Of course many institutions charge overhead of as much as 50% so now that hourly cost is double. If you provide the researcher with any benefits at all and you have to equip the lab with even a high quality polarizing microscope, your hourly costs go up in proportion to how much equipment is in the lab and how rapidly those costs can be depreciated. Need another employee that deals with administration? Well your hourly fees have to go up again. Agreed that if you offer a service that at has a minimum fee of $300 just to open the package and let you know you have a meteor-wrong, most of these submissions will vanish. However, how many people would be willing to spend the $300 base fee to be told by an expert, in effect "certify" the rock they know is a meteorite in fact a meteorite? How many of those would then pay the many hundred or thousands of dollars more for this commercial company to classify the meteorite? Few to none I suspect. As I said I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air, but I'd guess that those of you getting meteorites classified, if you are paying under several hundred dollars per hour in fees to get it done, are getting an incredible bargain. This is often because the costs are passed on to the taxpayer that funds your institution of choice. I doubt any of the meteoriticists doing this at an institution have figured out a per hour or per classification cost, but my guess is that my estimate is well below actual costs. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Meteorites USA wrote: From: Meteorites USA Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program To: m
Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program
This might seem like an amateurish question; but where would I turn to now to have unidentified meteorites classified and not just identified? -Yinan On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Meteorites USA wrote: > Hi Richard, Great post, and points... I agree that the numbers won't work > when actually 'classifying' meteorites, or even using a university lab to > visually examine a suspect/possible meteorite. The small "fee" would be > insignificant and not economically practical I understand for a university > lab. Besides that, there is a process already in place for classification. > This I would hazard a guess is why ASU is stopping their meteorite ID > program. It's just not cost effective and it bogs down the real > classification work. I was not referring to a university lab being used in > the "identification" process though. > > There is a clear distinction between identification and classification in > the meteorite world. Classifying a meteorite is a completely different story > than IDing a piece of magnetite. This is a two edged sword I know. > > My point is this. It's worth the small "fee" for a private sector business > to "weed" through the 1000 meteorwrong submissions to get to the 1 that has > a better chance of being a meteorite. This in turn frees up the time of the > university lab scientist to do actual classification work. His/her time is > now spent on "pre-qualified" leads/submissions instead of non-meteorites and > it becomes much more efficient. Prequalifying suspect meteorites through > this process would work to alleviate the abuse, and would weed out those > false meteorites at the same time. > > The numbers I ran are simple. Most meteorite people I know make between > $25/hr-$50/hr in their day jobs. It might be worth a $25-$50 fee for > meteorite experts to field the meteorwrong submissions, to get to that .1% > that are meteorites before submitting them to a lab. Visually examining a > suspect stone takes less than 1 hour of time to get a reasonable and > accurate idea whether a stone is a meteorite or hunk of basalt. > > I would put forth there are many meteorite experts here on list and within > the meteorite world that can identify a suspect meteorite with a very high > degree of accuracy. Most are very experienced in spotting/examining the > obvious magnetite, basalt, and river rocks that are constantly submitted by > finders. > > At the very least it would shrink the pool of wrongs, and increase the > percentage of meteorites submitted to the labs for classification. > > Eric > > > > > On 9/8/2010 1:37 PM, Richard Kowalski wrote: >> >> Eric, >> >> I'm not sure if you've "run the numbers" on what such a service would >> cost, but lets talk a few numbers, that I admit are essentially pulled out >> of thin air. >> >> Salary for a full time researcher, with no benefits, $35000 per year (and >> that's on the low side) >> Lab, minimum cost of $1000 per month, just for the space, with no >> equipment. >> Lab costs, minimum of $100 per hour. >> Lab equipment, I won't even make a guess at this, but minimum, would be >> many 10s of thousands of dollars for a properly equipped lab. >> >> >> So, say the researcher can spend 5 full hours each day actually examining& >> studying the specimens. The rest of the day is spent doing other related >> tasks. That means 25 hours per week or 1250 hours per year (only two weeks >> vacation per year) >> >> Using the three numbers I cite $35,000 + $12,000 + 125,000 means that at a >> minimum a facility would need to charge at least $137.60 per hour just to >> break even on these costs. Of course many institutions charge overhead of as >> much as 50% so now that hourly cost is double. >> >> If you provide the researcher with any benefits at all and you have to >> equip the lab with even a high quality polarizing microscope, your hourly >> costs go up in proportion to how much equipment is in the lab and how >> rapidly those costs can be depreciated. Need another employee that deals >> with administration? Well your hourly fees have to go up again. >> >> Agreed that if you offer a service that at has a minimum fee of $300 just >> to open the package and let you know you have a meteor-wrong, most of these >> submissions will vanish. However, how many people would be willing to spend >> the $300 base fee to be told by an expert, in effect "certify" the rock they >> know is a meteorite in fact a meteorite? How many of those would then pay >> the many hundred or thousands of dollars more for this commercial company to >> classify the meteorite? Few to none I suspect. >> >> As I said I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air, but I'd guess that >> those of you getting meteorites classified, if you are paying under several >> hundred dollars per hour in fees to get it done, are getting an incredible >> bargain. This is often because the costs are passed on to the taxpayer that >> funds your institution of choice. >> >> I doubt any of the meteoriticists doi
Re: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater
Meant to say Colombia. Chris Spratt Victoria, British Columbia (Via my iPhone) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program
OK Eric, I'll grant you your $25 fee to give a meteorite a cursory glance to give an opinion. We all know both dealers, hunters and professional researchers who have had people insist that their stones are rare meteorites and we also all have heard stories of these same kinds people accuse these dealers, hunters and professional researchers that they switched their rare and valuable specimen with a common earth rock from their yard. That's just one of many issues I can think of. I suspect that if such a low end service could be profitable, worth the time and effort, and be accepted on a wide scale, it already would exist. However, there always has to be the first in anything, so maybe someone should start one. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program
Several years back, Dr. Garvie was kind enough to confirm that the 'meteorite' I had received from an ebay seller was in fact slag. I was 95% sure beforehand it was a meteorwrong, but it was good to have it confirmed. I'm sorry that the influx of manure has made it necessary for this benefit to be ended, but I can completely understand. Having some type of pre-screening by knowledgeable List members for a reasonable fee might be a good service. The major labs could establish a 'white list' of screeners, where a note accompanying the alleged meteorite could be used to get the rock out of the slush pile. The rest could be returned with a generic letter, "We're sorry, but we no longer offer free evaluation of potential meteorites..." Is it even cost effective to return said rocks without an accompanying SASE? Will this even slightly divert the crazies with their multi-ton Mars Rock from God? Best! Tracy Latimer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Columbia --> COLOMBIA
Actually, for Columbia, that jacket would not be out of place in the winter... but I don't think you are talking about Columbia... As someone who grew up in Columbia (SC) and now lives near Columbia (MD), I wish people would get the name of the country right... It's COLOMBIA. Clear Skies! Elizabeth Chris Spratt wrote: To my eyes the vegetation in the background looks wrong for Columbia. Also the woman is wearing an unsuitable coat for the tropics. My 2 cents. Chris Spratt Victoria, BC (Via my iPhone) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Columbia --> COLOMBIA
Hi Elizabeth and List, I am guilty here. I apologize for the oversight. I must have had the space shuttle on my mind. Best regards, MikeG On 9/8/10, Elizabeth Warner wrote: > Actually, for Columbia, that jacket would not be out of place in the > winter... but I don't think you are talking about Columbia... > > As someone who grew up in Columbia (SC) and now lives near Columbia > (MD), I wish people would get the name of the country right... It's > COLOMBIA. > > Clear Skies! > Elizabeth > > Chris Spratt wrote: >> To my eyes the vegetation in the background looks wrong for Columbia. >> Also the woman is wearing an unsuitable coat for the tropics. >> >> My 2 cents. >> >> Chris Spratt >> Victoria, BC >> (Via my iPhone) >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Columbia --> COLOMBIA
Its ok as long as we all know that Africa is not a country... Hope everyone is having a better day then me... Greg C Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:09:56 To: Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Columbia --> COLOMBIA Hi Elizabeth and List, I am guilty here. I apologize for the oversight. I must have had the space shuttle on my mind. Best regards, MikeG On 9/8/10, Elizabeth Warner wrote: > Actually, for Columbia, that jacket would not be out of place in the > winter... but I don't think you are talking about Columbia... > > As someone who grew up in Columbia (SC) and now lives near Columbia > (MD), I wish people would get the name of the country right... It's > COLOMBIA. > > Clear Skies! > Elizabeth > > Chris Spratt wrote: >> To my eyes the vegetation in the background looks wrong for Columbia. >> Also the woman is wearing an unsuitable coat for the tropics. >> >> My 2 cents. >> >> Chris Spratt >> Victoria, BC >> (Via my iPhone) >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Close Shave Asteroids
I read two asteroids came pretty close to earth today. http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/09/harvard_scienti_1.html Here's a video of one of them. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/09/asteroid-animation-2/ in the first frame of the video, there's something to the left of the asteroid, looks kind of like a plume, and fades out over frames 2 & 3. Probably just a camera artifact or something, but seems odd. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater
Hi, Mike and List, Here are two added perspectives: http://it.sohu.com/20091027/n267760581.shtml http://it.sohu.com/20091027/n267760581.shtml I did a quick "Tineye" reverse image search http://www.tineye.com/ and there were twenty-nine hits, mostly Asian. I didn't look past the first page of returns. It seems this photo was in the news about a year ago... Cheers, Pete > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 14:39:05 -0400 > From: meteoritem...@gmail.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Photo of alleged Columbia impact crater > > Hi List, > > Here is a photo of the alleged impact crater caused by the recent > "meteorite fall" in Columbia. > > http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/columbia-crater.jpg > > Opinions? > > To me, it doesn't quite look right. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > -- > -- > Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites > > Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com > Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone > News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 > Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone > EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 > --- > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Opportunity Rover Reaches Halfway Point of Long Trek
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-292 Opportunity Rover Reaches Halfway Point of Long Trek Jet Propulsion Laboratory September 08, 2010 When NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity left Victoria Crater two years ago this month, the rover science team chose Endeavour Crater as the rover's next long-term destination. With a drive of 111 meters (364 feet) on Monday, Sept. 8, Opportunity reached the estimated halfway point of the approximately 19-kilometer (11.8-mile) journey from Victoria to the western rim of Endeavour. Opportunity completed its three-month prime mission on Mars in April 2004. During its bonus extended operations since then, it spent two years exploring in and around Victoria Crater. Victoria is about 800 meters (half a mile) in diameter. At about 22 kilometers (14 miles) in diameter, Endeavour is about 28 times wider. After the rover science team selected Endeavour as a long-term destination, observations of Endeavour's rim by NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter revealed the presence of clay minerals. This finding makes the site an even more compelling science destination. Clay minerals, which form exclusively under wet conditions, have been found extensively on Mars from orbit, but have not been examined on the surface. JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Mars Exploration Rover Project for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington. For more about the twin rovers Spirit and Opportunity, see http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov. Guy Webster (818) 354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webs...@jpl.nasa.gov 2010-292 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program
As somebody who started a fee based classification service with Ray at Bathurst Observatory I can shed a little light on what it would actually take to get quick classifications done. Most (Many anyway) list members know that I started a classification service several years ago with Ray. Its not shut down so technically I am still running it but we are no longer taking new classifications. The delay is getting microprobe results. We were promised a 8 week turnaround when we started with the microprobe results and in return we would work with the university to build up a meteorite collection. We had a couple committed scientists on board who genuinely love meteorites and the plan was to work together. Two things went against us. Budget cutbacks was the main one. But also the mining industry started needing more microprobe analysis of their own. Unlike meteorite people on a budget the mining industry is paying millions of dollars a day for mining equipment. Australia has avoided the worldwide recession and its all on the back of the mining industry. A few extra thousand dollars for quick microprobe results is a lot less to the mining company than paying for idle equipment sitting around waiting for microprobe results. The mining companies are paying around $350-$400 for their microprobe results (And then they have their own analysis people adding more to their cost). How does this affect my classification service? Well, since we are not paying $400 a day we keep getting our results bumped to the back of the line until microprobe time is available. A crash in mineral prices and a worldwide recession might free up microprobe time for us. Becides the microprobe results you need somebody capable of reading the results to make a classification (In my case thats my partner Ray). He obviously wants to be paid for that half hour or an hour part of the work, I want some profit to and there is other minor costs like postage costs, bank (Paypal in particular with meetorite classifications) fees, computer equipment, cost of making a thin section etc. So to sum things up for around $500 to $600 each (I havent bothered working on exact costs as nobody will pay that anyway) I have the ability to start a meteorite classification service and have a very fast several week turnaround time. Somebody with access to equipment in Europe or the USA where the mining industry is not hogging all of the equipment may or may not be able to beat this. I dont know but I doubt it would be a lot less unless it is with help from some scientist who is undercharging for work because of an interest in meteorites. Scientists doing classifications for free obviously get a type specimen and recognition that comes with classifying a new witnessed fall and this has value in itself reducing the cost below $500. But its because most meteorite people (Myself included) wont pay $600 to get a quick classification that we have to wait years to get classification results on NWAs. For me this is very frustrating and for the most part I dont even bother trying to classify stuff anymore. Nobody is really to blame. This is just what it costs to get stuff done and the meteorite world dont live in a vacuum and quarter million dollar microprobe machines are used for lots of things other than classifying meteorites (And at $400 a pop and with government funding cutbacks a lot of them is increasingly being used to do work for mining companies). We are lucky that there are scientists who love meteorites enough to get classification results anyway. And its not a one way street as they get benefit to. But a for profit meteorite classification service that just runs strictly on its own economics is not a viable business plan (Not until enough people are willing to pay $600 each to make it worthwhile). Somebody should lobby government and try to secure a couple million dollar grant to study meteorites. You can bet there would be plenty of qualified scientists willing to work full time on meteorite studies. It would certainly increase meteorite knowledge with all of the NWAs floating around. You could make a serious arguement that it would help more than all the millions spent on the Antarctic meteorite program (Although of course everybody wont agree on that and in reality there should be a plan for both places) but you would get a lot more material to work with in NWA. But NWAs are running out now and the opportunity to set this up has mostly been lost now anyway. In the meantime I am waiting for microprobe slots to get the results of the classifications my own classification service has submitted thats been running over two years now (But I am promised that it will get done soon). Sincerely DEAN --- On Wed, 8/9/10, Richard Kowalski wrote: > From: Richard Kowalski > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification > program > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.
[meteorite-list] esquel for trade (AD)
Hi list. I have a 23 gram slice of esquel for trade if interested. I am looking for an individual of either,glorietta siderite, a taza, ZIZ, OR NWA 5549 silicated iron.If interested, pleae off list with pics please. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NASA JSC Meteorite Compendium online
Hi Listees, For those of you who have not seen this before, check it out. NASA has an online database of it's Antarctic finds. You can browse them by type, read descriptions and view photos. It's very interesting and I spent about 2 hours last night clicking through them. There is a lot of good information in there. http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/antmet/lmc/index.cfm Here is the link to look-up meteorites - http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/antmet/query.cfm Simply put in your query by type and then enjoy the show. :) Best regards, MikeG -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Neat Flash-based impact simulator
Hi Listees, Here is another fun link to play around with - http://down2earth.eu/impact_calculator/ This goes into great detail showing the effects of various impactors, based on values you select. Best regards, MikeG -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 2010 Denver Show
Hi all, We also have the info on the COMETS website: http://www.peaktopeak.com/comets/ Regards, Bob Loeffler COMETS Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/index.php Webmaster and Asst. Dealer Chairman Denver Gem and Mineral Show http://www.DenverMineralShow.com -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of csac...@triad.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:39 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; impact...@aol.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 2010 Denver Show Thanks Ann! I didn't see the previous posting. Take care. impact...@aol.com wrote: > Hey Carl, and List, > > Of course there is a Get-together and Auction! > I announced it a couple weeks ago, and posted it on my website. Here, take > a look: > > _http://www.impactika.com/10DShow.doc_ > (http://www.impactika.com/10DShow.doc) > > And since the Show is only a week away, maybe it is not too late to remind > you all who are coming that you can contact me off-list and send me a > listing of what you want to enter in the Auction. > > Any other questions? > > Anne M. Black > _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) > _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) > > > > In a message dated 9/7/2010 2:42:26 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > csac...@triad.rr.com writes: > Hey Comets, > > Is there an auction or dinner planned for the Denver show next week? > > Thanks, Carl > > > __ > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3116 - Release Date: 09/07/10 00:34:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Witnessed fall lunars?still no clear answere
Simple but true. Odds favor no witnesses! On Sep 8, 2010, at 12:17 PM, Martin Altmann wrote: > Hi > > Because the people weren't there, when and where they felt, to witness them. > > General fall rates are a topic for its own, they range in the discussion > from a few thousands up to 40,000 falls per year, where a nice stone is > really dropped. > > And each year there are recovered from these thousands of falls always only > zero to a dozen. > And only the last 200 years meteorite falls were really noticed. > > http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/ > > Currently the database has 52000 valid & provisional meteorite entries. > Means - I don't know - 36566 form Antarctica, average pairing rate let's say > 5, 7300 original falls. > 1200 witnessed falls. > 2000 or so non-desert finds. > 12,000 or so desert finds, let's say pairing rate 3... > > So extremely roughly guessed we have stuff from 15,000 different meteorite > falls. > > > Let's look... > Antarcica 7000+ different fall events - 19 lunaites and 15 Martians. > > Oman, where the data are better than with NWA (hopefully not too much > pairings will be artificially created? Switzerland?) > 2800 numbers 22 lunaites and 4 Martians > > Falls > 1200 0 lunaites and 4 Martians > > > Sooo... observed falls are unsuspicious, regarding the problem that a > lunaite wouldn't be recognized in the field, cause it is too similar to > terrestrial rocks. > Partially Antarctica too as partially the rocks were collected on sheer ice. > > Therefrom we can speculate, that lunaites fall much more rarely than > asteroidial meteorites > (id est all the other stuff, without Martians). > > Hence they are rare per se. > > With finds, well there we see, that from among 100-350 meteorites found and > published meteorites 1 is a lunar. > (Perhaps the ratio is even larger...with the desert finds, ordinary > chondrites often aren't classified at present). > > But doesn't matter, that here is totally unscientifical :-) > > So. > 99% of all meteorites aren't lunars (finds, falls stats) > 99.9% of all meteorite falls aren't observed. > Meteorite falls we tend to witness and to report so far only in a tiny > window of 200 years. > 1200 witnessed falls we have. > > > This dairymaid calculation - we say here for a naïve fallacy - > makes it at least for me plausible, > why we haven't any observed lunar fall yet > > and it doesn't exclude that an observed fall could have happened in past > among the 1200 observed ones > and it neither excludes that it will happen in future! > > So I think the reason isn't so much a physical one, but it's only: Chance. > > Best! > Martin > > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Steve > Dunklee > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. September 2010 16:49 > An: almi...@localnet.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Witnessed fall lunars?still no clear answere > > Hi everyone. You did a good job of thrashing my response without giving an > answere to the original question. Why are there no lunar witnessed falls? DR > kortev did say there are twice as many Martian impacts,which to me is a lot > or many more. Another person questioned if they would have enough velocity > to be seen which is a verry good point because some would reach terminal > velocity much sooner than an object from mars or the astroid belt. The > amount of time recovered lunars take to reach earth has been said to be the > same as mars meteorites. I am beginning to believe it may be a matter of > recognition. A lunar would reach terminal velocity 20 or more miles up and > fall without making a sound. And if it did make a sound the person finding > it would do everyones "is it a meteorite" test. Brown or green crust? Doesnt > stick to a magnet.vesicles on the crust. Must not be a meteorite. And what > size does it take to launch a rock from the moon?small would do it. > Cheers Steve > > > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 9, 2010
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_9_2010.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 85, Issue 13
As to the question of when, and by whom, Lunar meteorites will be recovered on the North American Continent, you might wish to review the following site, and then compare this work to the Lunar & Planetary Institute's "Lunar Sample Atlas" of those specimens returned by the Apollo 11, 12, 14, 15, 16 & 17 astronauts. Pay particular attention to the Anorthositic, Troctolitic, Fragmental & Feldspathic Breccia specimens on both sides. http://www.flickr.com/photos/53287...@n04/sets/ Let us know, if this solves the mystery for you. Thanks! Steve C. On 9/8/10, meteorite-list-requ...@meteoritecentral.com wrote: > Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > meteorite-list-requ...@meteoritecentral.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > meteorite-list-ow...@meteoritecentral.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. AD : NWA 869 for sale (Malek Youssef) >2. YD impact "debate" (E.P. Grondine) >3. Re: Witnessed fall lunars? (Sterling K. Webb) >4. Re: YD impact "debate" (Richard Montgomery) >5. Mammoth-Killer Impact Rejected, Richard A. Kerr 2010.08.30 10 > comments news.sciencemag.org: Rich Murray 2010.09.07 (Rich Murray) >6. ad - Vesta for sale (Edwin Thompson) >7. Re: Witnessed fall lunars? (Melanie Matthews) >8. Shielding of the Moon by earth (Rob Matson) >9. Re: Shielding of the Moon by earth (Melanie Matthews) > 10. Re: Shielding of the Moon by earth (Rob Matson) > 11. Re: Shielding of the Moon by earth (Steve Dunklee) > 12. Re: Shielding of the Moon by earth (Martin Altmann) > 13. Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 8, 2010 > (Michael Johnson) > 14. Re: Witnessed fall lunars?still no clear answere (Steve Dunklee) > 15. Re: Witnessed fall lunars?still no clear answere (Adam Hupe) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:46:03 -0700 (PDT) > From: Malek Youssef > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : NWA 869 for sale > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: <997039.21213...@web53304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Listees > Anyone interested in NWA 869 Meteorites may contact me offlist. > Best Wishes > Malek > > > > > > -- > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:41:22 -0700 (PDT) > From: "E.P. Grondine" > Subject: [meteorite-list] YD impact "debate" > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: <515823.50104...@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Paul, all - > > Go to http://cosmictusk.com > > This "debate" is pretty much all over, though we can expect denial to > continue for the next 30 years or so, based on our experience with the KT > impacts. All that that denial did was to retard research for much of that > time, and I expect that the same thing may happen with this impact. > > I also think this denial may have to do with the inability of some people to > accept that impacts pose a threat, or to give up their earlier explanations > for the observed data, or because they view research into impact as a threat > to the funding of research more personally important to them. > > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > > > -- > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 22:32:42 -0500 > From: "Sterling K. Webb" > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Witnessed fall lunars? > To: > Cc: Rob Matson > Message-ID: <6254d5fc37f74680abe48be0a4dde...@atariengine2> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Hi, Lunar Gang, and List, > > We have a situation here that needs straightening > out. > > Escaping from the Moon is one thing. Getting > to the Earth is another. Here's how it starts. > > An object is propelled off the lunar surface > (doesn't matter how). As soon as it's no longer > in contact with the force that impelled it, its > speed can't increase. > > It can decrease, though, and it does. Lunar > gravity will pull down on it, reducing its speed > at the same rate it would gain if it fell. It goes > slower and slower. Eventually, its speed will fall > to zero and it will reverse course and start to > fall back. > > UNLESS its starting velocity is above or at the > Moon's escape velocity. It takes 2380 meters/sec > to escape to the point 38,000 miles from the Moon's > center to where the gravitation pull of the Earth > and the Moon are equal. If the rock started with > 2381 m/sec, it will get there moving at 1 m/sec, > a crawl. After that, the important thing is: w
[meteorite-list] Missouri "Round Rocks" are tektites?
http://cgi.ebay.com/FOSSIL-MATRIX-TEKTITE-ANCIENT-MO-METEORITE-CRATER-/140449841609? __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 9, 2010
Sure does look "battered" On Sep 8, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Michael Johnson wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_9_2010.html > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Missouri "Round Rocks" are tektites?
Hello Bill, All, Google-ing "Osceola round rocks" turned up the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaubleau-Osceola_structure Excerpt: Round rocks of Osceola Long thought to be a glacial remnant, these conglomerate rocks are found in the area of Osceola. They are nearly perfectly round, and are referred to locally simply as "round rocks" or "Missouri rock balls". Current theory suggests that these rocks are chert concretions, created when the impact threw pieces of shale away from the center of the crater, and later silica-rich materials formed around the shale seeds. The following reference mentioned the round rocks, but gave no explanation for their formation: http://courses.missouristate.edu/KevinEvans/RI-75(2003AMGguidebook).pdf The next reference noted 'angular' chert clasts with siltstone interiors, but made no mention of the rounded cobbles: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/largeimpacts2003/pdf/4111.pdf The amount of information you can find in only a few minutes with a simple search...that internet's an amazing thing. Best, Jason On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 4:10 PM, bill kies wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/FOSSIL-MATRIX-TEKTITE-ANCIENT-MO-METEORITE-CRATER-/140449841609? > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New Meteorite Impact Publication
Hi Gang! Just received my September GSA Today magazine and they are advertising their August release of "Large Meteorite Impacts and Planetary Evolution IV". This new volume covers new impact structures and confirms others. Looks interesting, as to current impact cratering research. Be a good reason for you folks to join the GSA, $30 discount on this book alone... List price $99 member price $70. 1-888-443-4472 for GSA sales and service. Have fun in Denver! Dennis Miller __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
