Re: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

[Richard Kowalski]

Excellent, and excellent news. 
--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Fri, 10/1/10, Norbert Classen  wrote:

> From: Norbert Classen 
> Subject: [meteorite-list]  RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363
> To: "'habibi abdelaziz'" , "'meteorite list'" 
> 
> Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 3:34 PM
> Hi Aziz, and All,
> 
> Yes, I can confirm that I received all the data from Dr.
> Jambon in the
> meantime, including the O-isotope data, and there seems to
> be no doubt that
> NWA 5400 and the stone classified by Dr. Jambon (NWA 5363)
> are actually
> paired. The O-isotope ratios plot very close to the TFL
> (terrestrial
> fractionation line), and the mineral compositions for
> olivine, orthopyroxene
> and clinopyroxene do also match closely.
> 
> Thanks to Dr. Jambon for providing these data.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Norbert Classen
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> 
> hi all,
> 
> albert wrote today to me.
> he said,
> '
> 
> I did write to Norbert. He has the data now. .
> 
> ""
> 
> thanks albert for your effort and your help ; and thanks
> norbert for helping
> this issue to move on to  the good way.
> do we have this  data now
> all the best
> 
> aziz habibi
> 
> 
> > - Message transféré  De : Norbert Classen
> 
> À
> : 
> >habibi abdelaziz ;
> meteorite list 
> >
> Envoyé le : Mer 29 septembre 
> >2010, 23h 11min 20s Objet : AW: [meteorite-list] nwa
> 5400 pairing to 
> >nwa 5363 Dear Aziz & All, You wrote: > he said
> too that he has given 
> >all the data that confirm > the pairing including
> the isotope to 
> >norbert classen in > end june where they talk abaout
> this and as i 
> >asked him > to do so. Maybe there's a slight
> misunderstanding here. I 
> >actually emailed with Dr. Jambon in June, and we also
> intended to meet 
> >at the Ste. Marie Show at the end of June where Dr.
> Jambon wanted to 
> >show me all the data (including the O-isotope data).
> However, 
> >unfortunatelly we missed each other at the show, and so
> the meeting 
> >didn't take place. Don't get me wrong, I have no reason
> to doubt Dr. 
> >Jambon's word on this - I just wanted to get the facts
> straight. Maybe 
> >you misunderstood Dr. Jambon? But up to this day I
> haven't seen the 
> >O-isotope data for NWA 5363. All I have seen is a
> writeup on NWA 5363 
> >which didn't include the O-isotope data. Again, that
> doesn't mean much, 
> >and I'm also looking forward to the official
> publication of NWA 5363. 
> >This will hopefully answer all the questions. We all
> need to remember 
> >that meteorite classification (including the voting
> process on new 
> >meteorites at the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society)
> takes time. So we 
> >as collectors should, IMHO, be patient, and wait with
> conclusions until 
> >the scientific work has been done and published. All
> the best, Norbert 
> >-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- hi all and i m happy
> that this issue 
> >is becoming a very polit and civilised discussion; well
> 3 months that i 
> >do not want to get caught inside this discussion any
> more, but well 
> >this is becoming repeated to a point that we forget
> what the debat is 
> >about, for nwa 5363; i get a talk on albert jambon
> mobile , i asked him 
> >that many dealers or collectors still think that nwa
> 5400 is not paired 
> >to nwa 5363 and he answered me this. he said that he
> have submited to 
> >the nomcom all the information, and he coudln't have
> said that they are 
> >paired if he haven't done isotope so clearly he 
> indicate that he has 
> >done isotope and have submited them to the nomcom dr
> wisberg or so , 
> >its on the phone. and  he said he is surprised why the
> nomcom didn't 
> >pubilsh them yet, he said too that he has given all the
> data that 
> >confirm the pairing including the isotope to norbert
> classen in end 
> >june where they talk abaout this and as i asked him to
> do so. so i ask 
> >here do we have any guy from the nomcom here , please
> end this torture 
> >and tell us if you have this data or not,and why you
> didn't publish 
> >them. thanks aziz habibi
> __ 
> >Visit the Archives at 
> >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> 
> >Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> --
> Albert JAMBON
> 
> UPMC Univ  Paris 06
> (UMR 7193) Institut des Sciences de la Terre Paris
> Laboratoire Magie  46-0
> 4eme étage, Case 110
> 
> 4 place jussieu 75252 Paris Cedex O5 France
> Tel: 33 (0) 144 27 51 35
> FAX: 33 (0) 144 27 39 11
> 
> Vient de paraître : Géochimie : géodynamique et cycles
> http://www.dunod.com/auteur-dunod-9782100516124-76933-albert-jambon.html
> 
> Parcours de Planétologie d'Ile de France
> http://www.aerov.jussieu.fr/themes/APACHE/PlanetoIDF/index.html
> 
> Site du master SDUEE
> http://www.master.sduee.upmc.fr
> 

[meteorite-list] AD - Canyon Diablo Display Kit, Brachinite, Eucrite/Diogenite Breccia, LL4 "Rumuruti Imposter", Stony Met With Hole, More!

[Galactic Stone & Ironworks]

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Thanks for looking and have a great weekend!  :)

MikeG
-- 
--
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites

Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
---
__
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Re: [meteorite-list] Subject: Re: Habital Planet Discovery Announcement

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi,

Larry is, as usual, completely correct. But there are
some rough indications. Dynamic studies show that
the system that exists is only dynamically stable if it
is co-planar. Meaning, the planets orbit at roughly the
same inclination, i.e., in the same plane.

So, assuming the system is co-planar, the next big
question is, do the planets transit the star? Many
attempts to observe transits have not found any.
So, presumably the orbital plane is tilted enough
to our line of sight that the planets don't cross the
star, when seen from here. But transits are very hard
to observe in a splotchy small M star.

The dynamic requirement of stability limits the maximum
and minimum masses. Earlier observations limited the
max to 1.6 times the minimum. These observations pin
it down further to a max of 1.4 times the min. More
observations will pin the range down further. Presently,
they say, the range is 3.1 E-masses to 4.3 E-masses.
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1009/1009.5733v1.pdf
(This is the discovery paper.)

The size of the planet is entirely an estimate and (like
everything else) is not simple. They say: "the radius of
GJ 581g is expected to be 1.3 - 1.5R  if homogeneous
and composed primarily of the perovskite phase of MgSiO3
(Earth-like), or 1.7 - 2R if water-ice. All radii are predicted
to be 20% smaller if the planet is differentiated, so the
planet is likely to have a radius below 1.5R. The mass and
radius estimates imply a surface gravity of 1.1 - 1.7 g,
very near that of the Earth."

Since Gliese 581 does not have the same mix of elements
as our own star, all these Earth-like assumptions have a
certain shakiness about them. The "solar nebula" of Gliese
581 has twice as much hydrogen and helium as heavier
elements relative to our nebular proportions. So, one COULD
assume that there would be more volatiles in the planets.

For a solar system to have more volatiles is a Gimme for
the formation of planets like Jupiter and Saturn, gas giants
which are mostly volatiles. Yet, Gliese 581 has NO gas giants.
There is no Jupiter, hot or cold, not even a lousy Saturn.
It has a Neptune (16 E-masses), but it's the closest planet
to the star. It could be a Jupiter that spiraled in due to
dust drag and got its volatiles boiled off.

It is entirely possible that Gliese 581 has, instead, a volatile-
poor solar system, that all of its planets are terrestrial and
short on volatiles. How could that happen? Well, in a nebula
with less heavy elements, accretion would proceed more
slowly which would give the newly active star time to blow the
forming volatiles away. At the worse, all these worlds, in all
the available sizes, could be rocky and airless. (That would
explain the absence of "Jupiters.")

Equally possible is that if  accretion proceeded very quickly,
all the planets could have accreted in place and be very
volatile-rich, ranging from a shiny steam-atmosphered giant
to waterworlds to iceballs.

Neiyher one sounds so "habitable," does it?

But, if they DO have atmospheres, we can say with certainty
that any planet's potential Greenhouse Effect will be greater
than the Earth's! Class M stars emit a large amount of their
radiation in the infrared. As a result, since the greenhouse
effect works by absorbing infrared radiation, the surface
temperatures would be higher than that predicted by
modeling such a world as if it were the Earth.

More transit observations would pin things down better.
The search for transits is best done by many telescopes,
properly equipped, over a long period of time, to determine
the light curve precisely. Even amateurs can contribute
and make discovery observations. See this website:
http://www.transitsearch.org/

Conceivably, if the planets transit, we could try to look for
signatures for any atmosphere.

All the exact data for all the Gliese 581 planets and blanks
where we don't know:
http://exoplanet.eu/star.php?st=Gl+581&showPubli=yes&sortByDate

Discussion of what "habitable" might mean:
http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=14589

Another "good" discussion on what is meant by the statement
that the chance of life is "good."
http://www.universetoday.com/74679/could-chance-for-life-on-gliese-581g-actually-be-100/

Frankly, I have always thought that we have very little
business deciding what "habitable" means. The very term
suggests that WE could inhabit the place. The notion that
WE are the standard by which "life" should be judged is
highly suspicious to me. It sounds very much like our
former unjustified assumption that our planet was the
center of the entire universe.

Is there somewhere a team of alien astronomers going
over their data on exoplanets with disappointment and
crossing off the list of targets to pursue further a world
that's too small, too hot, too wet, and with a significant
amount of a poisonous gas in its atmosphere. They've
just eliminated the Earth.

It is very hard for us to conceive of life in any other
terms than that of the life we know. It's difficult not

Re: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

[John.L.Cabassi]

G'Day Norbert, Aziz and List
Norbert, you were referring to the ratio plots being very close to TFL
and the mineral compositions also matching up closely. Not to get
everybody jumping up and down on this and please excuse my ignorance.
But I was a little confused about the reference to "closely" and "close"

Are the pairings of meteorites an absolute, like DNA? Or is there a +/-
equation that falls into a paired absolute?

Thank you in advance for stimulating my one brain cell 

Cheers
John
IMCA # 2125

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
Norbert Classen
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 3:35 PM
To: 'habibi abdelaziz'; 'meteorite list'
Subject: [meteorite-list] RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363


Hi Aziz, and All,

Yes, I can confirm that I received all the data from Dr. Jambon in the
meantime, including the O-isotope data, and there seems to be no doubt
that NWA 5400 and the stone classified by Dr. Jambon (NWA 5363) are
actually paired. The O-isotope ratios plot very close to the TFL
(terrestrial fractionation line), and the mineral compositions for
olivine, orthopyroxene and clinopyroxene do also match closely.

Thanks to Dr. Jambon for providing these data.

Kind regards,
Norbert Classen

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-

hi all,

albert wrote today to me.
he said,
'

I did write to Norbert. He has the data now. .

""

thanks albert for your effort and your help ; and thanks norbert for
helping this issue to move on to  the good way. do we have this  data
now all the best

aziz habibi


> - Message transféré  De : Norbert Classen 
>  À
: 
>habibi abdelaziz ; meteorite list
> Envoyé le : Mer 29 septembre 
>2010, 23h 11min 20s Objet : AW: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to 
>nwa 5363 Dear Aziz & All, You wrote: > he said too that he has given 
>all the data that confirm > the pairing including the isotope to 
>norbert classen in > end june where they talk abaout this and as i 
>asked him > to do so. Maybe there's a slight misunderstanding here. I 
>actually emailed with Dr. Jambon in June, and we also intended to meet 
>at the Ste. Marie Show at the end of June where Dr. Jambon wanted to 
>show me all the data (including the O-isotope data). However, 
>unfortunatelly we missed each other at the show, and so the meeting 
>didn't take place. Don't get me wrong, I have no reason to doubt Dr. 
>Jambon's word on this - I just wanted to get the facts straight. Maybe 
>you misunderstood Dr. Jambon? But up to this day I haven't seen the 
>O-isotope data for NWA 5363. All I have seen is a writeup on NWA 5363 
>which didn't include the O-isotope data. Again, that doesn't mean much,

>and I'm also looking forward to the official publication of NWA 5363. 
>This will hopefully answer all the questions. We all need to remember 
>that meteorite classification (including the voting process on new 
>meteorites at the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society) takes time. So we

>as collectors should, IMHO, be patient, and wait with conclusions until

>the scientific work has been done and published. All the best, Norbert 
>-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- hi all and i m happy that this issue 
>is becoming a very polit and civilised discussion; well 3 months that i

>do not want to get caught inside this discussion any more, but well 
>this is becoming repeated to a point that we forget what the debat is 
>about, for nwa 5363; i get a talk on albert jambon mobile , i asked him

>that many dealers or collectors still think that nwa 5400 is not paired

>to nwa 5363 and he answered me this. he said that he have submited to 
>the nomcom all the information, and he coudln't have said that they are

>paired if he haven't done isotope so clearly he  indicate that he has 
>done isotope and have submited them to the nomcom dr wisberg or so , 
>its on the phone. and  he said he is surprised why the nomcom didn't 
>pubilsh them yet, he said too that he has given all the data that 
>confirm the pairing including the isotope to norbert classen in end 
>june where they talk abaout this and as i asked him to do so. so i ask 
>here do we have any guy from the nomcom here , please end this torture 
>and tell us if you have this data or not,and why you didn't publish 
>them. thanks aziz habibi __

>Visit the Archives at 
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 
>Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


--
Albert JAMBON

UPMC Univ  Paris 06
(UMR 7193) Institut des Sciences de la Terre Paris Laboratoire Magie 
46-0
4eme étage, Case 110

4 place jussieu 75252 Paris Cedex O5 France
Tel: 33 (0) 144 27 51 35
FAX: 33 (0) 144 27 39 11

Vient de paraître : Géochimie : géodynamique et cycles
http://www.dunod.com/auteur-dunod-9

[meteorite-list] Re : RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

[habibi abdelaziz]

thanks a lot albert and norbert,


a happy end for this hollywood story.

let's move now to something else and let's find more great meteorite

all the best to you guys


aziz habibi
ps :staring a new jouney in the desert by a wonderfull sunrise the best time to 
look for meteorite when its fresh

http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/5042635329/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/5042635335/








De : Norbert Classen 
À : habibi abdelaziz ; meteorite list 

Envoyé le : Ven 1 octobre 2010, 22h 34min 38s
Objet : [meteorite-list] RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

Hi Aziz, and All,

Yes, I can confirm that I received all the data from Dr. Jambon in the
meantime, including the O-isotope data, and there seems to be no doubt that
NWA 5400 and the stone classified by Dr. Jambon (NWA 5363) are actually
paired. The O-isotope ratios plot very close to the TFL (terrestrial
fractionation line), and the mineral compositions for olivine, orthopyroxene
and clinopyroxene do also match closely.

Thanks to Dr. Jambon for providing these data.

Kind regards,
Norbert Classen

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-

hi all,

albert wrote today to me.
he said,
'

I did write to Norbert. He has the data now. .

""

thanks albert for your effort and your help ; and thanks norbert for helping
this issue to move on to  the good way.
do we have this  data now
all the best

aziz habibi


> - Message transféré  De : Norbert Classen  À
: 
>habibi abdelaziz ; meteorite list 
> Envoyé le : Mer 29 septembre 
>2010, 23h 11min 20s Objet : AW: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to 
>nwa 5363 Dear Aziz & All, You wrote: > he said too that he has given 
>all the data that confirm > the pairing including the isotope to 
>norbert classen in > end june where they talk abaout this and as i 
>asked him > to do so. Maybe there's a slight misunderstanding here. I 
>actually emailed with Dr. Jambon in June, and we also intended to meet 
>at the Ste. Marie Show at the end of June where Dr. Jambon wanted to 
>show me all the data (including the O-isotope data). However, 
>unfortunatelly we missed each other at the show, and so the meeting 
>didn't take place. Don't get me wrong, I have no reason to doubt Dr. 
>Jambon's word on this - I just wanted to get the facts straight. Maybe 
>you misunderstood Dr. Jambon? But up to this day I haven't seen the 
>O-isotope data for NWA 5363. All I have seen is a writeup on NWA 5363 
>which didn't include the O-isotope data. Again, that doesn't mean much, 
>and I'm also looking forward to the official publication of NWA 5363. 
>This will hopefully answer all the questions. We all need to remember 
>that meteorite classification (including the voting process on new 
>meteorites at the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society) takes time. So we 
>as collectors should, IMHO, be patient, and wait with conclusions until 
>the scientific work has been done and published. All the best, Norbert 
>-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- hi all and i m happy that this issue 
>is becoming a very polit and civilised discussion; well 3 months that i 
>do not want to get caught inside this discussion any more, but well 
>this is becoming repeated to a point that we forget what the debat is 
>about, for nwa 5363; i get a talk on albert jambon mobile , i asked him 
>that many dealers or collectors still think that nwa 5400 is not paired 
>to nwa 5363 and he answered me this. he said that he have submited to 
>the nomcom all the information, and he coudln't have said that they are 
>paired if he haven't done isotope so clearly he  indicate that he has 
>done isotope and have submited them to the nomcom dr wisberg or so , 
>its on the phone. and  he said he is surprised why the nomcom didn't 
>pubilsh them yet, he said too that he has given all the data that 
>confirm the pairing including the isotope to norbert classen in end 
>june where they talk abaout this and as i asked him to do so. so i ask 
>here do we have any guy from the nomcom here , please end this torture 
>and tell us if you have this data or not,and why you didn't publish 
>them. thanks aziz habibi __ 
>Visit the Archives at 
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 
>Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


--
Albert JAMBON

UPMC Univ  Paris 06
(UMR 7193) Institut des Sciences de la Terre Paris Laboratoire Magie  46-0
4eme étage, Case 110

4 place jussieu 75252 Paris Cedex O5 France
Tel: 33 (0) 144 27 51 35
FAX: 33 (0) 144 27 39 11

Vient de paraître : Géochimie : géodynamique et cycles
http://www.dunod.com/auteur-dunod-9782100516124-76933-albert-jambon.html

Parcours de Planétologie d'Ile de France
http://www.aerov.jussieu.fr/themes/APACHE/PlanetoIDF/index.html

Site du master SDUEE
http://www.master.sduee.upmc.fr


      
_

Re: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

[Dave Myers]

Hi Norbert,

Thank you so much! 

Being a Art major, I do not have a clue, what any of that means? .   LOL

But, I was hopping so much that It would be posted by someone and the meteorite 
experts and Geologist who know,  could see it and let the rest of us know! So 
there will no more argument for days on this topic!


Thanks again,

dave myers.cincinnati-reds-rock!!!










 


- Original Message 
From: Norbert Classen 
To: Dave Myers ; habibi abdelaziz 
; meteorite list 
Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 7:42:35 PM
Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

Hi Dave & All,

Dr. Jambon asked me explicitly not to publish his entire abstract - it will be 
published after it has been approved by the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society. 
That's the usual way to do this, and I perfectly understand that. However, he 
gave me the permission to quote the respective numbers for NWA 5363 - so here 
you go:

Oxygen isotopes: d17O =2.152‰; d18O = 4.183‰; ∆17O = -0.023‰

Does that help?

All the best,
Norbert Classen

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Dave Myers [mailto:whitefalcons...@yahoo.com] 
Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Oktober 2010 01:27
An: Norbert Classen; habibi abdelaziz; meteorite list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

Hi Norbert, Aziz, Dr Jambon,  and list!

For The most part, in the last 3-4 years, I have been on the side lines just 
reading the post!

If 3 people Have access to this data ( NWA-5363 o- Isotope) and belong to this 
list, "Why state you have it, and not post the results on hear??? I do not 
understand this at all. 



Why keep good people in a argument,  I am sure 99.9% of all the people on this 
list are all good people at heart, with all the same interest as everyone else. 

That is the only reason we are hear. METEORITES.
To share knowledge about what we love.

So if you have the data, post it on Hear tonight, And Everyone can get along.

dave myers




- Original Message 
From: Norbert Classen 
To: habibi abdelaziz ; meteorite list 

Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 6:34:38 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

Hi Aziz, and All,

Yes, I can confirm that I received all the data from Dr. Jambon in the 
meantime, 
including the O-isotope data, and there seems to be no doubt that NWA 5400 and 
the stone classified by Dr. Jambon (NWA 5363) are actually paired. The 
O-isotope 
ratios plot very close to the TFL (terrestrial fractionation line), and the 
mineral compositions for olivine, orthopyroxene and clinopyroxene do also match 
closely.

Thanks to Dr. Jambon for providing these data.

Kind regards,
Norbert Classen

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-

hi all,

albert wrote today to me.
he said,
'

I did write to Norbert. He has the data now. .

""

thanks albert for your effort and your help ; and thanks norbert for helping 
this issue to move on to  the good way.
do we have this  data now
all the best

aziz habibi


> - Message transféré  De : Norbert Classen 
>  À
: 
>habibi abdelaziz ; meteorite list 
> Envoyé le : Mer 29 septembre 
>2010, 23h 11min 20s Objet : AW: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to 
>nwa 5363 Dear Aziz & All, You wrote: > he said too that he has given 
>all the data that confirm > the pairing including the isotope to 
>norbert classen in > end june where they talk abaout this and as i 
>asked him > to do so. Maybe there's a slight misunderstanding here. I 
>actually emailed with Dr. Jambon in June, and we also intended to meet 
>at the Ste. Marie Show at the end of June where Dr. Jambon wanted to 
>show me all the data (including the O-isotope data). However, 
>unfortunatelly we missed each other at the show, and so the meeting 
>didn't take place. Don't get me wrong, I have no reason to doubt Dr.
>Jambon's word on this - I just wanted to get the facts straight. Maybe 
>you misunderstood Dr. Jambon? But up to this day I haven't seen the 
>O-isotope data for NWA 5363. All I have seen is a writeup on NWA 5363 
>which didn't include the O-isotope data. Again, that doesn't mean much, 
>and I'm also looking forward to the official publication of NWA 5363.
>This will hopefully answer all the questions. We all need to remember 
>that meteorite classification (including the voting process on new 
>meteorites at the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society) takes time. So we 
>as collectors should, IMHO, be patient, and wait with conclusions until 
>the scientific work has been done and published. All the best, Norbert 
>-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- hi all and i m happy that this issue 
>is becoming a very polit and civilised discussion; well 3 months that i 
>do not want to get caught inside this discussion any more, but well 
>this is becoming repeated to a point that we forget what the debat is 
>about, for nwa 5363; i get a talk on albert jambon mobile , i asked him 
>that many dealers or collectors s

Re: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

[Norbert Classen]

Hi Dave & All,

Dr. Jambon asked me explicitly not to publish his entire abstract - it will be 
published after it has been approved by the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society. 
That's the usual way to do this, and I perfectly understand that. However, he 
gave me the permission to quote the respective numbers for NWA 5363 - so here 
you go:

Oxygen isotopes: d17O =2.152‰; d18O = 4.183‰; ∆17O = -0.023‰

Does that help?

All the best,
Norbert Classen

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Dave Myers [mailto:whitefalcons...@yahoo.com] 
Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Oktober 2010 01:27
An: Norbert Classen; habibi abdelaziz; meteorite list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

Hi Norbert, Aziz, Dr Jambon,  and list!

For The most part, in the last 3-4 years, I have been on the side lines just 
reading the post!

If 3 people Have access to this data ( NWA-5363 o- Isotope) and belong to this 
list, "Why state you have it, and not post the results on hear??? I do not 
understand this at all. 


Why keep good people in a argument,  I am sure 99.9% of all the people on this 
list are all good people at heart, with all the same interest as everyone else. 
That is the only reason we are hear. METEORITES.
To share knowledge about what we love.

So if you have the data, post it on Hear tonight, And Everyone can get along.

dave myers

 


- Original Message 
From: Norbert Classen 
To: habibi abdelaziz ; meteorite list 

Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 6:34:38 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

Hi Aziz, and All,

Yes, I can confirm that I received all the data from Dr. Jambon in the 
meantime, including the O-isotope data, and there seems to be no doubt that NWA 
5400 and the stone classified by Dr. Jambon (NWA 5363) are actually paired. The 
O-isotope ratios plot very close to the TFL (terrestrial fractionation line), 
and the mineral compositions for olivine, orthopyroxene and clinopyroxene do 
also match closely.

Thanks to Dr. Jambon for providing these data.

Kind regards,
Norbert Classen

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-

hi all,

albert wrote today to me.
he said,
'

I did write to Norbert. He has the data now. .

""

thanks albert for your effort and your help ; and thanks norbert for helping 
this issue to move on to  the good way.
do we have this  data now
all the best

aziz habibi


> - Message transféré  De : Norbert Classen 
>  À
: 
>habibi abdelaziz ; meteorite list 
> Envoyé le : Mer 29 septembre 
>2010, 23h 11min 20s Objet : AW: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to 
>nwa 5363 Dear Aziz & All, You wrote: > he said too that he has given 
>all the data that confirm > the pairing including the isotope to 
>norbert classen in > end june where they talk abaout this and as i 
>asked him > to do so. Maybe there's a slight misunderstanding here. I 
>actually emailed with Dr. Jambon in June, and we also intended to meet 
>at the Ste. Marie Show at the end of June where Dr. Jambon wanted to 
>show me all the data (including the O-isotope data). However, 
>unfortunatelly we missed each other at the show, and so the meeting 
>didn't take place. Don't get me wrong, I have no reason to doubt Dr.
>Jambon's word on this - I just wanted to get the facts straight. Maybe 
>you misunderstood Dr. Jambon? But up to this day I haven't seen the 
>O-isotope data for NWA 5363. All I have seen is a writeup on NWA 5363 
>which didn't include the O-isotope data. Again, that doesn't mean much, 
>and I'm also looking forward to the official publication of NWA 5363.
>This will hopefully answer all the questions. We all need to remember 
>that meteorite classification (including the voting process on new 
>meteorites at the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society) takes time. So we 
>as collectors should, IMHO, be patient, and wait with conclusions until 
>the scientific work has been done and published. All the best, Norbert 
>-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- hi all and i m happy that this issue 
>is becoming a very polit and civilised discussion; well 3 months that i 
>do not want to get caught inside this discussion any more, but well 
>this is becoming repeated to a point that we forget what the debat is 
>about, for nwa 5363; i get a talk on albert jambon mobile , i asked him 
>that many dealers or collectors still think that nwa 5400 is not paired 
>to nwa 5363 and he answered me this. he said that he have submited to 
>the nomcom all the information, and he coudln't have said that they are 
>paired if he haven't done isotope so clearly he  indicate that he has 
>done isotope and have submited them to the nomcom dr wisberg or so , 
>its on the phone. and  he said he is surprised why the nomcom didn't 
>pubilsh them yet, he said too that he has given all the data that 
>confirm the pairing including the isotope to norbert classen in end 
>june where they talk abaout this and as i asked him to do so. so i a

Re: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

[Dave Myers]

Hi Norbert, Aziz, Dr Jambon,  and list!

For The most part, in the last 3-4 years, I have been on the side lines just 
reading the post!

If 3 people Have access to this data ( NWA-5363 o- Isotope) and belong to this 
list, "Why state you have it, and not post the results on hear??? I do not 
understand this at all. 


Why keep good people in a argument,  I am sure 99.9% of all the people on this 
list are all good people at heart, with all the same interest as everyone else. 
That is the only reason we are hear. METEORITES.
To share knowledge about what we love.

So if you have the data, post it on Hear tonight, And Everyone can get along.

dave myers 







 


- Original Message 
From: Norbert Classen 
To: habibi abdelaziz ; meteorite list 

Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 6:34:38 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

Hi Aziz, and All,

Yes, I can confirm that I received all the data from Dr. Jambon in the
meantime, including the O-isotope data, and there seems to be no doubt that
NWA 5400 and the stone classified by Dr. Jambon (NWA 5363) are actually
paired. The O-isotope ratios plot very close to the TFL (terrestrial
fractionation line), and the mineral compositions for olivine, orthopyroxene
and clinopyroxene do also match closely.

Thanks to Dr. Jambon for providing these data.

Kind regards,
Norbert Classen

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-

hi all,

albert wrote today to me.
he said,
'

I did write to Norbert. He has the data now. .

""

thanks albert for your effort and your help ; and thanks norbert for helping
this issue to move on to  the good way.
do we have this  data now
all the best

aziz habibi


> - Message transféré  De : Norbert Classen  À
: 
>habibi abdelaziz ; meteorite list 
> Envoyé le : Mer 29 septembre 
>2010, 23h 11min 20s Objet : AW: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to 
>nwa 5363 Dear Aziz & All, You wrote: > he said too that he has given 
>all the data that confirm > the pairing including the isotope to 
>norbert classen in > end june where they talk abaout this and as i 
>asked him > to do so. Maybe there's a slight misunderstanding here. I 
>actually emailed with Dr. Jambon in June, and we also intended to meet 
>at the Ste. Marie Show at the end of June where Dr. Jambon wanted to 
>show me all the data (including the O-isotope data). However, 
>unfortunatelly we missed each other at the show, and so the meeting 
>didn't take place. Don't get me wrong, I have no reason to doubt Dr. 
>Jambon's word on this - I just wanted to get the facts straight. Maybe 
>you misunderstood Dr. Jambon? But up to this day I haven't seen the 
>O-isotope data for NWA 5363. All I have seen is a writeup on NWA 5363 
>which didn't include the O-isotope data. Again, that doesn't mean much, 
>and I'm also looking forward to the official publication of NWA 5363. 
>This will hopefully answer all the questions. We all need to remember 
>that meteorite classification (including the voting process on new 
>meteorites at the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society) takes time. So we 
>as collectors should, IMHO, be patient, and wait with conclusions until 
>the scientific work has been done and published. All the best, Norbert 
>-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- hi all and i m happy that this issue 
>is becoming a very polit and civilised discussion; well 3 months that i 
>do not want to get caught inside this discussion any more, but well 
>this is becoming repeated to a point that we forget what the debat is 
>about, for nwa 5363; i get a talk on albert jambon mobile , i asked him 
>that many dealers or collectors still think that nwa 5400 is not paired 
>to nwa 5363 and he answered me this. he said that he have submited to 
>the nomcom all the information, and he coudln't have said that they are 
>paired if he haven't done isotope so clearly he  indicate that he has 
>done isotope and have submited them to the nomcom dr wisberg or so , 
>its on the phone. and  he said he is surprised why the nomcom didn't 
>pubilsh them yet, he said too that he has given all the data that 
>confirm the pairing including the isotope to norbert classen in end 
>june where they talk abaout this and as i asked him to do so. so i ask 
>here do we have any guy from the nomcom here , please end this torture 
>and tell us if you have this data or not,and why you didn't publish 
>them. thanks aziz habibi __ 
>Visit the Archives at 
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 
>Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


--
Albert JAMBON

UPMC Univ  Paris 06
(UMR 7193) Institut des Sciences de la Terre Paris Laboratoire Magie  46-0
4eme étage, Case 110

4 place jussieu 75252 Paris Cedex O5 France
Tel: 33 (0) 144 27 51 35
FAX: 33 (0) 144 27 39 11

Vient de paraître : Géochimie : géodyna

[meteorite-list] RE: nwa 5400 pairing to nwa 5363

[Norbert Classen]

Hi Aziz, and All,

Yes, I can confirm that I received all the data from Dr. Jambon in the
meantime, including the O-isotope data, and there seems to be no doubt that
NWA 5400 and the stone classified by Dr. Jambon (NWA 5363) are actually
paired. The O-isotope ratios plot very close to the TFL (terrestrial
fractionation line), and the mineral compositions for olivine, orthopyroxene
and clinopyroxene do also match closely.

Thanks to Dr. Jambon for providing these data.

Kind regards,
Norbert Classen

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-

hi all,

albert wrote today to me.
he said,
'

I did write to Norbert. He has the data now. .

""

thanks albert for your effort and your help ; and thanks norbert for helping
this issue to move on to  the good way.
do we have this  data now
all the best

aziz habibi


> - Message transféré  De : Norbert Classen  À
: 
>habibi abdelaziz ; meteorite list 
> Envoyé le : Mer 29 septembre 
>2010, 23h 11min 20s Objet : AW: [meteorite-list] nwa 5400 pairing to 
>nwa 5363 Dear Aziz & All, You wrote: > he said too that he has given 
>all the data that confirm > the pairing including the isotope to 
>norbert classen in > end june where they talk abaout this and as i 
>asked him > to do so. Maybe there's a slight misunderstanding here. I 
>actually emailed with Dr. Jambon in June, and we also intended to meet 
>at the Ste. Marie Show at the end of June where Dr. Jambon wanted to 
>show me all the data (including the O-isotope data). However, 
>unfortunatelly we missed each other at the show, and so the meeting 
>didn't take place. Don't get me wrong, I have no reason to doubt Dr. 
>Jambon's word on this - I just wanted to get the facts straight. Maybe 
>you misunderstood Dr. Jambon? But up to this day I haven't seen the 
>O-isotope data for NWA 5363. All I have seen is a writeup on NWA 5363 
>which didn't include the O-isotope data. Again, that doesn't mean much, 
>and I'm also looking forward to the official publication of NWA 5363. 
>This will hopefully answer all the questions. We all need to remember 
>that meteorite classification (including the voting process on new 
>meteorites at the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society) takes time. So we 
>as collectors should, IMHO, be patient, and wait with conclusions until 
>the scientific work has been done and published. All the best, Norbert 
>-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- hi all and i m happy that this issue 
>is becoming a very polit and civilised discussion; well 3 months that i 
>do not want to get caught inside this discussion any more, but well 
>this is becoming repeated to a point that we forget what the debat is 
>about, for nwa 5363; i get a talk on albert jambon mobile , i asked him 
>that many dealers or collectors still think that nwa 5400 is not paired 
>to nwa 5363 and he answered me this. he said that he have submited to 
>the nomcom all the information, and he coudln't have said that they are 
>paired if he haven't done isotope so clearly he  indicate that he has 
>done isotope and have submited them to the nomcom dr wisberg or so , 
>its on the phone. and  he said he is surprised why the nomcom didn't 
>pubilsh them yet, he said too that he has given all the data that 
>confirm the pairing including the isotope to norbert classen in end 
>june where they talk abaout this and as i asked him to do so. so i ask 
>here do we have any guy from the nomcom here , please end this torture 
>and tell us if you have this data or not,and why you didn't publish 
>them. thanks aziz habibi __ 
>Visit the Archives at 
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 
>Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


--
Albert JAMBON

UPMC Univ  Paris 06
(UMR 7193) Institut des Sciences de la Terre Paris Laboratoire Magie  46-0
4eme étage, Case 110

4 place jussieu 75252 Paris Cedex O5 France
Tel: 33 (0) 144 27 51 35
FAX: 33 (0) 144 27 39 11

Vient de paraître : Géochimie : géodynamique et cycles
http://www.dunod.com/auteur-dunod-9782100516124-76933-albert-jambon.html

Parcours de Planétologie d'Ile de France
http://www.aerov.jussieu.fr/themes/APACHE/PlanetoIDF/index.html

Site du master SDUEE
http://www.master.sduee.upmc.fr


  
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[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: September 27 - October 1, 2010

[Ron Baalke]

MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
September 27 - October 1, 2010

o Polar Dunes (27 September 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100927a

o Dark Slope Streaks (28 September 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100928a

o Balvicar Crater (29 September 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100929a

o Ceraunius Tholus (30 September 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100930a

o Arsia Mons Flows (01 October 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20101001a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 



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[meteorite-list] Green Comet 103P/Hartley 2 Approaches

[Ron Baalke]

Space Weather News for Oct. 1, 2010
http://spaceweather.com

APPROACHING COMET: Green comet 103P/Hartley 2 is approaching 
Earth for a close encounter on Oct. 20th. At that time, the 
comet will be only 11 million miles (0.12 AU) from our planet 
and should be dimly visible to the naked eye from dark sky 
sites. It already looks great through backyard telescopes, as 
shown by images featured on today's edition of http://spaceweather.com. 
NASA's Deep Impact/EPOXI spacecraft is en route to this comet for 
close-up studies and a daring flyby on Nov. 4th.  

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[meteorite-list] Twice Blessed Yankee Lobsterman

[David Gunning]

Hi Martin,

Nice hearing from you.

Thanks for the link to Herb Adams piece.  I wonder if he is the same Herb
Adams who is also a political player here in Maine.  And, yes, I was
aware of Herb Adams' writing, but as I only became aware of it recently,
for the first time, it's simply not possible that it was the original
source of my possible mis-information source on the Round Pond
meteorites.  No, I still think it was a Maine Geological Survey web site
that originally turned me on to the possible mis-information, if that's
what it was.

One possibility is that the particular website was taken down by the
Maine Geological Survey. Here's one possibility why:

This past summer I did some preliminary field work on the issue by taking
a drive over to Round Pond for a look see and talking to some of the
locals.  Visiting the scene of the crime, so to speak, and asking some of
the locals their collective albeit dim recollections of the incidents, if
any were to be had.  One local fisherman couldn't say, as he indicated he
was only four years old at the time in 1953, and, hence, may have been
too young at the time to remember.  And, then, in 1969 he was off
fighting a war in Vietnam, and not in the area.

People were generally forthwith with their recollections.

One gal, the owner of a campground a few miles to the east, recalled
quite vividly seeing a "shooting star" come soaring low across the
skyline in the 1953 time frame.  She thought, also, that maybe there had
been a similar kind of event in 1969.

But, then, this is America, you must bear in mind, the land where people
can and will say any darn thing.

The campground lady made an interesting comment, however, when she
indicated that such an event, if indeed a meteorite did actually come
crashing down in Round Pond, Maine could not have happened without
someone witnessing the event.

Good point, I agreed, and generally as true and accurate an observation
as might be garnered, considering the circumstance.

There is a hidden fallacy, however, in such reasoning.  Would it not be
possible, I wondered, that if a meteorite had dropped out of the sky
during a raging nor'easter, or some other such extreme weather event,
that it might have boomed and descended from the heavens unnoticed and
not observed?

Remote possibility, I suppose, but stranger things may have happened.

Anyways, back at the Round Pond public boat ramp, I gathered-up a few
magnetic specimens, scattered on the shore, which I eventually sent down
to Russell Kempton at New England Meteoritical Services for his
professional examination and opinion.

Interesting rock material, according to NEM, but, alas, not of celestial
origins.

Oh, well, I tried.

An interesting aside to this notion of meteorites being found on the
coast of Maine might be that the area between low and high tide, in
Maine, the so-called intertidal zone, is, in fact, perhaps the only
quasa-public land in Maine where a meteorite might be found and legally
retained by the finder.

Maine was once part of Massachusetts, until 1820, and the Baystates "Blue
Laws" decreed that private ownership of property, so called proprietary
rights, end at the high tide line.  Everything from there to the low tide
line is considered public domain, to varying degrees.

So, if your ever gonna find a meteorite in Maine, unless it's in your own
backyard, the intertidal zone may be the next best place to do so.

There, the grubby fingers of government must be observant of the rights
of us little guys, and should be better utilized, perhaps, in picking
their noses, instead.

Finally, it may be that the Maine Geological Survey fielded a few phone
calls from locals asking questions about the fabled Round Pond meteorites
and decided that shutting down their web site with references to an
unsubstantiated meteorlogical event was a sensible thing to do.  Not
worth the hassle.  Who knows for sure?

That's my best guess.

Glad tidings,

Dave Gunning






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[meteorite-list] No Evidence Found of Catastrophic Impact 12, 900 Years Ago

[Ron Baalke]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE FROM

THE UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA

Oct. 1, 2010
 
This story and photos are online at http://uanews.org/node/34499

Contact information follows the story.

UA Archaeologist, Colleagues Find No Evidence of Catastrophic Impact

Anthropology professor Vance T. Holliday and others take issue with claims
that a comet strike led to the demise of Paleoindian megafauna hunters
during the Pleistocene.

The notion of an object such as a comet or asteroid striking the Earth and
wiping out entire species is compelling, and sometimes there's good evidence
for it. Most scientists now agree that a very large object from space
crashed into what is now the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico 65 million years
ago, altering climate patterns sufficiently to end the age of the dinosaurs.

The theory was backed up by supporting evidence, and while not everyone in
the scientific community was on board at first, it's now generally accepted.

For about three years, a similar controversy has been brewing about the end
of the Pleistocene, when ice sheets covered large parts of the planet and
animal behemoths foraged the landscape. Prehistoric hunters developed
sophisticated strategies and tool kits for bringing down mammoths and other
megafauna. 

Did a comet striking one of those ice fields in North America nearly 13,000
years ago sufficiently alter climate enough to wipe out these animals and
collapse the cultures that hunted them?

A new study published in Current
  Anthropology
argues that whether or not such an extraterrestrial event occurred, nothing
in the archaeological record indicates that the Clovis hunters suddenly
disappeared along with the animals.  

Vance T. Holliday, a professor in the University of Arizona School of 
Anthropology and the department of geosciences, and David J. Meltzer, an 
archaeologist at Southern Methodist University, studied evidence from a 
number of archaeological sites and concluded that it was more likely that 
hunting populations shifted their subsistence patterns to hunting other 
animals.

The controversy began several years ago when scientists cited evidence of an
extraterrestrial impact 12,900 years ago somewhere around the Great Lakes
caused the Younger Dryas climate changes, the extinction of several large
mammal species and the collapse of the Paleoindians whose large, fluted
spear points - first found near Clovis, N.M. - were likely designed for
hunting very big game animals.

Supporters of the comet theory point out that few Clovis sites continued to
be occupied after their inhabitants stopped making large projectile points.
Those few old Clovis sites that are reoccupied by post-Clovis people also
show a significant passage of time - as much as five centuries - between
them.

Holliday and Meltzer, bolstered by radiocarbon dates from more than 40
sites, counter that most prehistoric sites are kill sites where game was
dispatched and butchered, and not likely to be continuously occupied. Gaps
across time and the disappearance of Clovis points, they said, were more
likely the result of shifting settlement patterns brought about by the
nature of a nomadic existence.

"Whether or not the proposed extraterrestrial impact occurred is a matter
for empirical testing in the geological record," Holliday writes. "Insofar
as concerns the archaeological record, an extraterrestrial impact is an
unnecessary solution for an archaeological problem that does not exist."

Contact: Vance T. Holliday, (520) 621-4734, vthol...@email.arizona.edu

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[meteorite-list] AD - Meteorites for sale

[Larry & Twink Monrad]

Here are some more offerings from the Stephan collection:

Abee  236 g
Chiang-khan  .707 g
Isna  26 g
Itqiy  4.01 g
D'Orbigny  63.77 g
Stannern  7.0 g
New Orleans  1.7 g
Kunashak  33.3 g
Tabor  3 part slices - 2.0g, 0.5g and 0.7g
Zaklodzie  1.29 g
NWA 1914  53.6 g
NWA 2871  34.3 g

Numerous others available

Please e-mail Twink Monrad off list for more information

larrytwinkmon...@comcast.net
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[meteorite-list] New Meteorite-Times Magazine Now Open

[Paul Harris]

Dear List,

We have completed our Meteorite-Times Magazine makeover and have input 
the August 2010 and September 2010 issues. We will be adding all of the 
back issues over the course of many months.


While we are working on the October issue we would appreciate it if some 
of you would browse around and see if you can find any errors or break 
anything.  If you find anything please use the 'Contact Us' link at the 
top of the page.


Many of you have bookmarked 
http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm and there is no need 
to change it as we have redirected it to http://www.meteorite-times.com/


Thank you and hope you like the changes!

http://www.meteorite-times.com/

Paul and Jim




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[meteorite-list] AD: Two new Eucrite breccias - Diogenite with huge iron inclusion - Brachinite update

[Peter Marmet]

Dear list members,

I'm happy to announce two wonderful, absolutely fresh Eucrite breccias:
NWA 6343 (TKW: 64.5 g) and NWA 6345 (TKW: 26 g).
Priced at only $ 25.00 per gram!

Furthermore I have one slice of a Diogenite (NWA 6267) with a 6 x 5 mm
iron inclusion!

Link for EUC and DIO:  http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id54.html

I also updated my "Brachinite for Sale Page" with my last few pieces of
NWA 6292, Brachinite(-like) and paired to NWA 5400(!) and two part
slices of NWA 5363.

Price: $ 40.00/g. The two endcuts are priced at only $ 30.00/gram!

Link for BRA:  http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id41.html

Please note: Status of these new NWA's is still provisional.

Thank you,
Peter

Peter Marmet - IMCA #2747
Bern, Switzerland
http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/
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[meteorite-list] Meteorite found in Lincolnshire?

[Meteorites USA]

Possibile meteorite find in Lincolnshire, UK
http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/meteorites-in-lincolnshire-heres-an-actual-one

Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric
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Re: [meteorite-list] Twice Blessed Yankee Lobsterman

[Martin Altmann]

You princes of Maine, you kings of New England,

perhaps David is referring to that article?
http://www.scarboroughcrossroads.org/slct/referen/a03/rp1003.html

Well, it's an old article of 1985 and if you check below, the author wasn't
directly a specialist.

Dave, it's very common, that people believe or even claim, that they have
found a meteorite.
And that afterwards no denial is published. That happens till to our times,
if you remember e.g. last year, the story who made it into the media around
the world, from a German pupil, who claimed to have been hit by a meteorite.
That was published everywhere and it was taken for granted, that the pebble,
which had hit him, was a meteorite, although any collector and specialist
easily saw, that regarding the circumstances it was definitely nothing. Was
btw later tested at MHN in Berlin and was of course terrestrial.
Nevertheless no disclaimer was found in press.

If all the list members, who have a webpage about meteorites, would forward
the emails they get from people claiming, to have found a meteorite, then
this list would explode.
Perhaps  one-tenth of a per mill of such finds are in the end a true
meteorite.

Maine has five meteorites - Nobleboro, Castine, Searsmont, Andover and
Walnut Hill. All were observed to fall, respectively Walnut Hill was found
on a roof, while repairing it. That is very normal for a non-dry state, that
no finds else are made, except if the stones fall in front of the feet of
the people.

Seen the surface of Maine and the population density, five is already a very
good number.

Most known is Andover, because the meteorite dealer Ward had cared for it.

(Addendum for Randy to my recent post on the IMCA-list: For the display,
Ward brought to the Columbian exhibition and with which the Chicago Field
museum started its famous meteorite collection,
Marshall Field paid an equivalent of 2.4 million USD).

Best!
Martin



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Bob
Loeffler
Gesendet: Freitag, 1. Oktober 2010 04:23
An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Twice Blessed Yankee Lobsterman

Hi Dave,

I was only trying to tell you that those are not official meteorites, but if
you were "well aware that the two Round Pond meteorites had not been
mentioned with official citations", I would think that you would be well
aware that they then cannot be considered meteorites (since they have not
been officially classified).

Regarding wasting our time and what your style is, I have not seen too many
postings from you, so I have no idea what your style is or whether you were
wasting our time.  From what you said in your e-mail, I assumed you were a
meteorite "newbie", not just a newbie to this list.  Like I said above, I
was just trying to let you know that they aren't official (so you probably
won't find many details about them).

If you had told us that the Maine Geological Survey mentioned them on their
website, maybe that could've helped us research it, don't you think?  And
next time, you might want to say that you have already done some research
and therefore others who want to help you won't repeat what you have already
done.

Regards,

Bob



-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of David
Gunning
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:05 AM
To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Twice Blessed Yankee Lobsterman


Hi Rob & Elton,

Believe it or not, guys, I was well aware that the two Round Pond
meteorites had not been mentioned with official citations.  You think I
would want to waste peoples time without first getting the factual lay of
an issue?  That's not my style.

I first learned about the Round Pond meteorites on a web site hosted by
the Maine Geological Survey.  Unless I'm mistaken that information is
offered by the Maine Geological Survey without qualifiers.  Because of
the source, I took the information at face value, "statistically
improbable" or not.

There is another Maine meteorite report that references a "321 lb.
metallic stone" having been found on the shore of Great Chebeague Island
in Casco Bay, in 1973.  As I lived on a neighboring island in Casco Bay
for five years and never heard of it PLUS the lack of mention by the
Maine Geological Survey in any of their public literature, I did not make
mention of that particular meteorite in my original query to the list.

I mean, how on earth could an islander hide a "321 lb. metallic stone
meteorite".   .   .without half the other islanders knowing about it?
Talk about your "statistical improbabilities".  .  .  !

Now, if it turns-out that the story of the lobsterman meteorite finder
was either factually incorrect or a creative fabrication on the part of
the State of Maine and the Maine Geological Survey I would suggest 

Re: [meteorite-list] Subject: Re: Habital Planet Discovery Announcement

[lebofsky]

Hi Sterling:

I hope that I am not repeating something. Too many emails on too many
subjects (not all the metlist) the last few days and getting ready for a
conference.

One thing seems to be missing in these discussions; how the planets were
detected.

All of the planets in the Gliese 581 system were detected by spectroscopy.
You look at a spectral line from the star and, over time it shifts to the
blue and then to the red. This is the Doppler shift as the star moves
toward and away from you (respectively) as it is tugged on by it companion
planet. It take many orbits of the planet to verify this motion, not just
one "signal." The bigger the planet, the more the spectral line shifts,
the easier it is to see." The closer the planet is to the star, the
shorter the cycle is and the easier it is to see (if the period is a year,
it takes several years to see several cycles). This obviously gets very
complicated when you have multiple planets and are looking for cycles on
cycles.

This leads to a very important thing that seems to be left out of all of
these discussions.The numbers quoted are MINIMUM masses. The Doppler shift
is the shift in the direction of the viewer. These numbers assume that the
planet orbits are lined up with the Earth, which would be highly unlikely.
For the Gliese planetary system, the inclination of the planets is not
known. If their orbits are in reality tilted by say 45 degrees, their
masses would be about 1.4 times the numbers quoted. Still not bad. The
distance from the star is only dependent on the mass of the star and the
distance of the planet from the star (Kepler's Law, orbital period), but
the mass is dependent on the inclination of the orbits relative to the
Earth.

Again, I hope I am not repeating others on this.

Larry

> Not to doubt the scientific trustworthiness of
> the Daily Mail, but they state that the light pulse
> was seen December, 2008, "long before it was
> announced that the star Gliese 581 has habitable
> planets in orbit around it."
>
> But Gliese 581 c, the first low mass extrasolar
> planet found to be near its star's habitable zone,
> was discovered in April 2007, and Gliese 581 b,
> approximately Neptune-sized and the first planet
> detected around Gliese 581, was discovered in
> August 2005.
>
> Discovered at the same time as Gliese 581 c, a third
> planet, Gliese 581 d, has a mass of roughly 7 Earths,
> or half a Uranus, and an orbit of 66.8 Earth days. It
> orbits just within the outer limit of the habitable zone.
>
> The fourth planet, Gliese 581 e, was announced on
> 21 April 2009. This planet, at an estimated minimum
> mass of 1.9 Earths, is currently the lowest mass exoplanet
> identified around a "normal star." The more distant
> Gliese 581 f was found at the same time.
>
> Gliese 581 was much in the news by December, 2008.
> It was known that there were low-mass planets and that
> there were planets in the habitable zone. The BEBO
> message had been "sent" just two months before, in
> October, 2008.
>
> It is certainly not true that the pulse was "long before it was
> announced that the star Gliese 581 has habitable planets
> in orbit around it." It was well known.
>
> Unrepeated signals don't count. Basic rule of SETI.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> --
> - Original Message -
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 10:40 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Subject: Re: Habital Planet Discovery
> Announcement
>
>
>> Listees,
>>
>> And now we have this to contemplate.
>>
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1316538/Gliese-581g-mystery-Scientist-spotted-mysterious-pulse-light-direction-newEarth-planet-year.html
>>
>> Best to all,
>>
>> Count Deiro
>> IMCA 3536
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>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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>
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>


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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Densities - Brother Guy

[Jeff Kuyken]

Hi all,

I made a page years ago on this as it has always been a popular topic. The 
PDF paper is linked at the bottom:


http://www.meteorites.com.au/odds&ends/density.html

Cheers,

Jeff


- Original Message - 
From: "ted brattstrom" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Densities - Brother Guy



Aloha -

This looks like a possible source of information - :-)

Grain densities, Bulk Densities, and Porosity...

Now to find a source of those tiny glass beads!

Cheers - ted


Stony Meteorite Porosities and Densities: A Review of the Data through 
2001

D. T. BRITT1 and G. J. CONSOLMAGNO S.J

http://homepage.mac.com/brother_guy/.Public/Meteorite%20Densities.pdf




--- On Thu, 9/30/10, Richard Kowalski  wrote:


From: Richard Kowalski 
Subject: [meteorite-list] Amateur Meteoriticists?
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Date: Thursday, September 30, 2010, 3:05 PM
David's original question got me



snip ..



Now to a more direct response to David. Over dinner Guy
commented a bit about his work and how amateurs could
perform density and specific gravity measurements of their
own meteorites. I suggested contacting him, and other
scientists for copies of their papers if you don't have
access to pay sites.


...snip...


I can't say he is looking for co-authors, but he may be
able to direct interested amateurs to the researchers who
would be interested.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081






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[meteorite-list] "The Birth Environment of the Solar System"

[Shawn Alan]

Hello Listers,
 
With all this talk about a new found Earth like Earth, I thought I would be 
good to post this article to the List's way.
 
"The Birth Environment of the Solar System"
   Fred C. Adams
 
It takes a few pages of reading before it gets to the good stuff about 
meteorites, but I found this as a great read and introduction to a new 
found look at the formation of our solar system and how the elements became the 
Earth, the Moon and our METEORITES :)
 
ABSTRACT

This paper reviews our current understanding of the possible birth environments
of our Solar System. Since most stars form within groups and clusters,
the question becomes one of determining the nature of the birth aggregate of 
the Sun. This discussion starts by reviewing Solar System properties that 
provide constraints on our environmental history. We then outline the range of 
star-forming environments that are available in the Galaxy, and discuss how 
they affect star and planet formation. The nature of the solar birth cluster is 
constrained by many physical considerations, including radiation fields 
provided by the background environment, dynamical scattering interactions, and 
by the necessity of producing the short-lived radioactive nuclear species 
inferred from meteoritic measurements. Working scenarios for the solar birth 
aggregate can be constructed, as discussed herein, although significant 
uncertainties remain.
 
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1001/1001.5444v2.pdf
 
Shawn Alan
IMCA 1633
eBaystore
http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
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