Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Speaking from experience with many auction houses: most houses stay around the 20% range but the bigger ones charge photo fees of $100-$400 and a buy back fee. So are they a better value than eBay? With the major auction houses, I find that about 40-60% of items I consign will sell. Most will sell at my reserve, but 1 in 4 will go for a crazy high price because of bidding wars. So I tend to use eBay for most of my low priced or specimens that are too specialized, while I consign more expensive or pretty items to auction houses. Pretty with a good story sells. - yinan Sent from my iPhone On Mar 23, 2012, at 8:13 PM, "Bob Falls" wrote: > > Hi Adam, > I was watching this show the other night (different episode) and did catch > them say at the > beginning that the auction house takes a 20% sellers premium. I have never > worked with an > auction house however this does not seem too bad based on the draw this > auction seems to have. > > Best Regards, > Bob Falls > Colorado Springs, CO > > > -Original Message- > From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 9:31 AM > To: Adam > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin > > A lot of buyers judge the price of collectable items from eBay. EBay is > not known for fetching top dollar, especially on collectables. A solid > auction house will almost always fetch more than what would be realized > on eBay. The problem with many auction houses is that their commissions are > out of line, some > charging in excess of 40%! Then some fleece the > buyers with expensive shipping and handling fees. > > Don't get me wrong, there are a few great auction companies out there, I have > used some of > them. One problem I encountered is that if the item > doesn't sell or the buyer can't pay for the item after bidding on it, > then the seller can be out of some serious money including catalog and > no-sell fees. They need to do a better job of vetting their bidders! > > A lot of dealers don't bother with middle men anymore since they can get > wholesale prices right off of eBay. Some specialty shops get most of > there product from eBay, mark it up considerably and put it on their > shelves. The problem is that a lot the collectable items offered on eBay have > no expertise > behind them and are accidentally or purposely > misrepresented. > > There are reputable independent companies that can authenticate and paper > items so COAs are important to me. I wouldn't purchase a valuable > coin, baseball card or any other collectable without first seeing that > it has been papered through an independent grading and certificate > service. A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big > bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where > some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves. > > Kind Regards and Happy Collecting, > > Adam > __ > > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Yeah, I initially had the same reaction as Count...maybe not a good idea to switch the paradigm from in-the-know-competitive-market-driven-values to a free-for-all-mystique-value which eventually would upset at least some of the participants when the competitive-market-driven-values are discovered. Yet, who knows...value is where one finds it. As our passion now enjoys front-stage TV recognition, I'd be wrong to assert that mystique-value, (and throw in celebrity-value, howdy Geoff and Steve!) isn't now a new element; simply check ebay to see how celebrity status carries the day (something I applaud.) I doubt that rare metoeriteswill ever even enter into this arena: imagine if the consigned piece was a 1 gram 100% crusted Tissint...we'd hear the silence in the roomand wish we'd been there to offer $600 for the "tiny little thing." Hmmm...this is an interesting thread. Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: "Count Deiro" To: "MexicoDoug" ; ; ; Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi List, Most auctioneers and auction bidders wouldn't be able to tell a meteorite from a charcoal briquet. I think the rock in question sold cheap. The seller could have put $2,000 as the reserve and those bidders would have slugged it out to an even higher figure. Why do I say that? Because what they did proved They didn't know market prices, so they were being motivated by mystique, the Public misconception of value due to popular media BS... and finally...good ole competition between each other. Seen it happen a hundred times. It will keep happening until we screw it up by flooding the small auction houses with meteorites and telling everyone when they have paid too much. And if it bothers you to see someone pay more for something than you would. Then ask yourself...Am I upset because I could have been the seller and made that killing? Or am I upset because somebody made a bad buy? I thought so. Regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: MexicoDoug Sent: Mar 23, 2012 12:43 PM To: meteoritem...@gmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Mike G wrote: "He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit." "I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me." Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink grapefruit size, is ... 3.61 kg. So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff away on eBay. ;-) The problem with "I caught a fish and it was *this big*" is you are building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may not have. Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg " and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites" ???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing about meteorites? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer To: meteorite-list Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called "Auction Kings" was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a "lump", but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an offici
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Hi Adam, I was watching this show the other night (different episode) and did catch them say at the beginning that the auction house takes a 20% sellers premium. I have never worked with an auction house however this does not seem too bad based on the draw this auction seems to have. Best Regards, Bob Falls Colorado Springs, CO -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 9:31 AM To: Adam Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin A lot of buyers judge the price of collectable items from eBay. EBay is not known for fetching top dollar, especially on collectables. A solid auction house will almost always fetch more than what would be realized on eBay. The problem with many auction houses is that their commissions are out of line, some charging in excess of 40%! Then some fleece the buyers with expensive shipping and handling fees. Don't get me wrong, there are a few great auction companies out there, I have used some of them. One problem I encountered is that if the item doesn't sell or the buyer can't pay for the item after bidding on it, then the seller can be out of some serious money including catalog and no-sell fees. They need to do a better job of vetting their bidders! A lot of dealers don't bother with middle men anymore since they can get wholesale prices right off of eBay. Some specialty shops get most of there product from eBay, mark it up considerably and put it on their shelves. The problem is that a lot the collectable items offered on eBay have no expertise behind them and are accidentally or purposely misrepresented. There are reputable independent companies that can authenticate and paper items so COAs are important to me. I wouldn't purchase a valuable coin, baseball card or any other collectable without first seeing that it has been papered through an independent grading and certificate service. A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves. Kind Regards and Happy Collecting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Speaking of Auctions - Tissint
...for the price of a Ferrari! http://www.chait.com/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=NH1205+++134+&refno=++133235&image=0 ..."Estimate $200,000-300,000" Cheers, Pete > Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 14:54:17 -0700 > From: countde...@earthlink.net > To: mexicod...@aim.com; meteoritem...@gmail.com; > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin > > Hi List, > > Most auctioneers and auction bidders wouldn't be able to tell a meteorite > from a charcoal briquet. I think the rock in question sold cheap. The seller > could have put $2,000 as the reserve and those bidders would have slugged it > out to an even higher figure. Why do I say that? Because what they did proved > They didn't know market prices, so they were being motivated by mystique, the > Public misconception of value due to popular media BS... and finally...good > ole competition between each other. Seen it happen a hundred times. It will > keep happening until we screw it up by flooding the small auction houses with > meteorites and telling everyone when they have paid too much. > > And if it bothers you to see someone pay more for something than you would. > Then ask yourself...Am I upset because I could have been the seller and made > that killing? Or am I upset because somebody made a bad buy? I thought so. > > Regards, > > Count Deiro > IMCA 3536 > > > -Original Message- > >From: MexicoDoug > >Sent: Mar 23, 2012 12:43 PM > >To: meteoritem...@gmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin > > > >Mike G wrote: > > > >"He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a > >grapefruit." > > > >"I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for > >about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic > >to me." > > > >Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on > >eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. > >A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States > >Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink > >grapefruit size, is ... > > > >3.61 kg. > > > >So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for > >these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff > >away on eBay. ;-) > >The problem with "I caught a fish and it was *this big*" is you are > >building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 > >may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may > >not have. > > > >Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? > > > >http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg > > > >" and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites" > > > >???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing > >about meteorites? > > > >Kindest wishes > >Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: Michael Gilmer > >To: meteorite-list > >Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am > >Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin > > > > > >Hi Folks, > > > >So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I > >saw that a show called "Auction Kings" was going to have a segment > >featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I > >was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. > > > >Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not > >sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house > >sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. > > > >The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins > > > >This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a > >camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about > >the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the > >shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was > >what most of us would call a "lump", but it was obvious from the > >appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. > > > >First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a > >certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious > >reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of > >COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, > >grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for > >it. > > > >Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is > >"magnetic" because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the > >key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment > >on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real > >kicker was still to come. > > > >So the owner tells the aucti
[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: March 19-23, 2012
MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES March 19-23, 2012 o North Polar Dunes (19 March 2012) http://themis.asu.edu/node/5850 o More Polar Dunes (20 March 2012) http://themis.asu.edu/node/5851 o Polar Clouds (21 March 2012) http://themis.asu.edu/node/5852 o THEMIS celebrates a decade's discoveries (22 March 2012) http://themis.asu.edu/node/5853 o Channels (23 March 2012) http://themis.asu.edu/node/5854 All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
I've seen this show a number of times and there was no reserve, for some reason there just was a lot of bidding. Greg S -Original Message- From: Count Deiro Sent: 23 Mar 2012 21:54:25 GMT To: MexicoDoug,meteoritem...@gmail.com,meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com,meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi List, Most auctioneers and auction bidders wouldn't be able to tell a meteorite from a charcoal briquet. I think the rock in question sold cheap. The seller could have put $2,000 as the reserve and those bidders would have slugged it out to an even higher figure. Why do I say that? Because what they did proved They didn't know market prices, so they were being motivated by mystique, the Public misconception of value due to popular media BS... and finally...good ole competition between each other. Seen it happen a hundred times. It will keep happening until we screw it up by flooding the small auction houses with meteorites and telling everyone when they have paid too much. And if it bothers you to see someone pay more for something than you would. Then ask yourself...Am I upset because I could have been the seller and made that killing? Or am I upset because somebody made a bad buy? I thought so. Regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- >From: MexicoDoug >Sent: Mar 23, 2012 12:43 PM >To: meteoritem...@gmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin > >Mike G wrote: > >"He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a >grapefruit." > >"I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for >about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic >to me." > >Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on >eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. >A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States >Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink >grapefruit size, is ... > >3.61 kg. > >So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for >these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff >away on eBay. ;-) >The problem with "I caught a fish and it was *this big*" is you are >building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 >may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may >not have. > >Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? > >http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg > >" and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites" > >???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing >about meteorites? > >Kindest wishes >Doug > > > > > > > >-Original Message- >From: Michael Gilmer >To: meteorite-list >Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am >Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin > > >Hi Folks, > >So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I >saw that a show called "Auction Kings" was going to have a segment >featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I >was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. > >Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not >sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house >sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. > >The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins > >This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a >camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about >the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the >shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was >what most of us would call a "lump", but it was obvious from the >appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. > >First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a >certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious >reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of >COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, >grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for >it. > >Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is >"magnetic" because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the >key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment >on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real >kicker was still to come. > >So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the >meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for >it. > >Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen ever >mentioned. So without knowing the weight, it is difficult to assign >to solid value to the piece. But judging by wh
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
Hi John, Thanks for the kind words. You must be one of the half-dozen people on this List that I have not alienated over the years with my big mouth. I like to think that I make positive contributions to the meteorite world, in my own small way. Now if I can just learn to keep my foot out of my mouth. But man, I love the taste of my boots. LOL. Maybe this issue of standardized provenance is an issue that the IMCA can tackle. It sounds like something right up their alley. And although I am not a member, I would be happy to comply with whatever rules might emerge as part of a solution. Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, John higgins wrote: > Hi Mike, > > I consider that little piece of paper you put inside the micros a valid > provenance and COA. > It's your design and has your name on it. Regardless of how small or cheap > others perceive it to be, it's unique and it's the only provenance that > comes from you. That in and of itself makes it special, and something worth > being proud of. It adds a cultural and historic attribute to every meteorite > you sell. > > You don't have to explain yourself, I consider you a friend, I like you and > the meteorites you provide, I like your comments to the list, you and solely > you, add a dimension to the meteorite world where there would otherwise be a > empty space. When I see your post I don't always respond but I always take > pleasure in reading what you have to say. People don't have to agree with > you, who cares if they agree or not, you take pride in what you do and you > make a incredible effort making great contributions to the meteorite > community on a daily basis. > > And let me be the first to Thank you for being who you are, telling it like > it is, and shooting from the hip, telling people how you feel,In my book > that puts you near the top of the list. Not too many people put themselves > out there like you do. Even though your not big on contributing great > volumes of new meteorites, you more than make up for it in contributions you > make elsewhere. > > Sincerely, > John Higgins > > PS. I still am in support of standardization of provenance. > > > > > From: Michael Gilmer > To: John higgins > Cc: "meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com" > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's ) > > Hi John, > > Some specimen cards or COA's would be easier to counterfeit than > others. The best one I have seen, in regards to difficulty to > duplicate, would be the cards issued by Martin Altmann and Stefan > Ralew. Their specimen card is very glossy and professional, but it > also has an embedded hologram. This adds an extra element of > difficulty to reproducing their cards and would act as a solid > deterrent. > > Truthfully, I don't issue COA's (or even specimen cards) with the vast > majority of my specimens for one reason - cost. The bulk of my sales > are specks, crumbs, and tiny pieces that cost $10 or less. It's just > not financially viable for me to produce cards and COA's for every > little micro I sell. At the rate I sell micros, I would need > thousands of them over the course of time, and I just cannot afford > the expense. When I have to choose between putting gas in my truck > (or food in my belly) and ordering up a batch of specimen cards to be > custom made, I have to pick the former. I operate on razor-thin > margins and this is how I feed my family. I don't have a day job or > income outside of meteorites. Also, my inventory has such a high > turnover rate, that a meteorite I have in stock today might be gone > tomorrow and might never be offered again. And I am a man of > opportunity, most of my acquisitions are based on opportunity alone > and are not planned. I have no idea what I will be offering tomorrow > or next week. Frankly, I am flying by the seat of my pants. > > I'm not saying what I do is best or should be emulated by others. By > the time I figure in the cost of packing-shipping materials (bubble > mailers, baggies, gemjars, printer paper/ink, mailing labels) and > other stuff like business cards, I am already spending about $2 on > packaging each $5 micromount. Figure in PayPal fees and the profit > gets even smaller. I have to draw a line somewhere and I draw it at > COA's and specimen cards. Not to mention the 20% off coupons I throw > around on the web. > > Every micro I sell comes in a 1.25" gemjar that has a paper label > inside. The paper label states the meteorite name, locality, type, > and my URL/name. That small piece of paper, is for all intents and > purposes my spec
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Hi List, Most auctioneers and auction bidders wouldn't be able to tell a meteorite from a charcoal briquet. I think the rock in question sold cheap. The seller could have put $2,000 as the reserve and those bidders would have slugged it out to an even higher figure. Why do I say that? Because what they did proved They didn't know market prices, so they were being motivated by mystique, the Public misconception of value due to popular media BS... and finally...good ole competition between each other. Seen it happen a hundred times. It will keep happening until we screw it up by flooding the small auction houses with meteorites and telling everyone when they have paid too much. And if it bothers you to see someone pay more for something than you would. Then ask yourself...Am I upset because I could have been the seller and made that killing? Or am I upset because somebody made a bad buy? I thought so. Regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- >From: MexicoDoug >Sent: Mar 23, 2012 12:43 PM >To: meteoritem...@gmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin > >Mike G wrote: > >"He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a >grapefruit." > >"I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for >about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic >to me." > >Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on >eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. >A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States >Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink >grapefruit size, is ... > >3.61 kg. > >So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for >these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff >away on eBay. ;-) >The problem with "I caught a fish and it was *this big*" is you are >building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 >may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may >not have. > >Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? > >http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg > >" and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites" > >???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing >about meteorites? > >Kindest wishes >Doug > > > > > > > >-Original Message- >From: Michael Gilmer >To: meteorite-list >Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am >Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin > > >Hi Folks, > >So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I >saw that a show called "Auction Kings" was going to have a segment >featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I >was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. > >Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not >sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house >sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. > >The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins > >This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a >camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about >the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the >shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was >what most of us would call a "lump", but it was obvious from the >appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. > >First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a >certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious >reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of >COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, >grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for >it. > >Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is >"magnetic" because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the >key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment >on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real >kicker was still to come. > >So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the >meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for >it. > >Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen ever >mentioned. So without knowing the weight, it is difficult to assign >to solid value to the piece. But judging by what I saw (apparent size >and shape), I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or >eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed >unrealistic to me, but this is television and a bunch of people who >don't know jack about meteorites, so anything is possible. > >The auction part comes, and they have a nice turn out with maybe two >o
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
Hi Mike, I consider that little piece of paper you put inside the micros a valid provenance and COA. It's your design and has your name on it. Regardless of how small or cheap others perceive it to be, it's unique and it's the only provenance that comes from you. That in and of itself makes it special, and something worth being proud of. It adds a cultural and historic attribute to every meteorite you sell. You don't have to explain yourself, I consider you a friend, I like you and the meteorites you provide, I like your comments to the list, you and solely you, add a dimension to the meteorite world where there would otherwise be a empty space. When I see your post I don't always respond but I always take pleasure in reading what you have to say. People don't have to agree with you, who cares if they agree or not, you take pride in what you do and you make a incredible effort making great contributions to the meteorite community on a daily basis. And let me be the first to Thank you for being who you are, telling it like it is, and shooting from the hip, telling people how you feel,In my book that puts you near the top of the list. Not too many people put themselves out there like you do. Even though your not big on contributing great volumes of new meteorites, you more than make up for it in contributions you make elsewhere. Sincerely, John Higgins PS. I still am in support of standardization of provenance. From: Michael Gilmer To: John higgins Cc: "meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com" Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's ) Hi John, Some specimen cards or COA's would be easier to counterfeit than others. The best one I have seen, in regards to difficulty to duplicate, would be the cards issued by Martin Altmann and Stefan Ralew. Their specimen card is very glossy and professional, but it also has an embedded hologram. This adds an extra element of difficulty to reproducing their cards and would act as a solid deterrent. Truthfully, I don't issue COA's (or even specimen cards) with the vast majority of my specimens for one reason - cost. The bulk of my sales are specks, crumbs, and tiny pieces that cost $10 or less. It's just not financially viable for me to produce cards and COA's for every little micro I sell. At the rate I sell micros, I would need thousands of them over the course of time, and I just cannot afford the expense. When I have to choose between putting gas in my truck (or food in my belly) and ordering up a batch of specimen cards to be custom made, I have to pick the former. I operate on razor-thin margins and this is how I feed my family. I don't have a day job or income outside of meteorites. Also, my inventory has such a high turnover rate, that a meteorite I have in stock today might be gone tomorrow and might never be offered again. And I am a man of opportunity, most of my acquisitions are based on opportunity alone and are not planned. I have no idea what I will be offering tomorrow or next week. Frankly, I am flying by the seat of my pants. I'm not saying what I do is best or should be emulated by others. By the time I figure in the cost of packing-shipping materials (bubble mailers, baggies, gemjars, printer paper/ink, mailing labels) and other stuff like business cards, I am already spending about $2 on packaging each $5 micromount. Figure in PayPal fees and the profit gets even smaller. I have to draw a line somewhere and I draw it at COA's and specimen cards. Not to mention the 20% off coupons I throw around on the web. Every micro I sell comes in a 1.25" gemjar that has a paper label inside. The paper label states the meteorite name, locality, type, and my URL/name. That small piece of paper, is for all intents and purposes my specimen card. On larger or higher-dollar specimens, I do offer specimen cards. Or, if I am reselling a specimen I bought from another dealer, I pass along the original specimen card or a copy of it. Also, if a buyer requests it, I will provide a specimen card (of the conventional type) for any micro I sell. Most buyers don't request it. I am aware that I lose potential buyers because of how I present my meteorites in a spartan way. I have had several collectors contact me privately and tell me this. Honestly, I am not trying to compete with the big guys, the Hupes, Farmer, Cottingham, or any of you veteran dealers. I don't have the financial ability to compete and I have no desire either. I am quite happy in the small niche I have carved out for myself. I have a cadre of repeat customers who like what I offer and they come back again and again. If they are happy, then I am happy. They know what I offer, and if they want a big specimen, they go elsewhere. I often refer them to the other dealers for those big specimens that I cannot offer. Some of those other dealers might be quite surprised h
Re: [meteorite-list] Provenance and the fickle mistress
Hi Stephan, The whole issue of COA's and provenance was accidental. This all started out with a post about a meteorite on a TV show. Discussions tend to wander into places not originally intended. I understand what you are saying and I agree in principle. But scientists and collectors have entirely different needs. Scientists care for what the meteorite can teach us. Collectors have hundreds of different reasons for collecting their stones. And collectors, like the market, can be fickle. Some care more about provenance than others. And some specimens don't profit much from provenance. Is a heavily-weathered unclassified NWA chondrite more valuable if it comes from Bob Haag or Joe Blow? Probably not. Is a nicely-prepared slice of Esquel more valuable if it comes from Bob Haag? To many collectors, yes. Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, Stephan Kambach wrote: > An example: If I would make a trade with a museum to obtain a piece from > the former Chladni collection, then > the value for the meteorite gain by its added historic meaning. > If I ' m buying a meteorite from Haag, Hupe, Farmer etc. then last et > least I pay the price I would agree > with myself. Is it possible to get a better piece for the same price by > an unknown dealer > I would prefer to trade there. Names like Haag, Farmer, Hupe etc. or an > NON historic provenance doesn't make > the meteorite more valuable. > Did you ever heard that any of the scientists (and they are observing > what's going on on the market; also the list- be shure) > starting up or sharing such discussions with you about prices like you do? > They knowing where is the real value of meteorites. I think they dislike > it. > Dealers always for shure (greedily) and collectors often deep in their > hearts let money comes first to leave > one'smark on the meteorites. For them, the evaluation for a meteorite is > a summary > of a lot positions - in contrast for scientist only counts what the > meteorite can tell by itself. > Such discussions harms the value of collecting; therfore for scientist a > good reason to demand that meteorites doesn't belong > in every ones hand. Do you want to go on? > > > Stephan Kambach > __ > > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Provenance
An example: If I would make a trade with a museum to obtain a piece from the former Chladni collection, then the value for the meteorite gain by its added historic meaning. If I ' m buying a meteorite from Haag, Hupe, Farmer etc. then last et least I pay the price I would agree with myself. Is it possible to get a better piece for the same price by an unknown dealer I would prefer to trade there. Names like Haag, Farmer, Hupe etc. or an NON historic provenance doesn't make the meteorite more valuable. Did you ever heard that any of the scientists (and they are observing what's going on on the market; also the list- be shure) starting up or sharing such discussions with you about prices like you do? They knowing where is the real value of meteorites. I think they dislike it. Dealers always for shure (greedily) and collectors often deep in their hearts let money comes first to leave one'smark on the meteorites. For them, the evaluation for a meteorite is a summary of a lot positions - in contrast for scientist only counts what the meteorite can tell by itself. Such discussions harms the value of collecting; therfore for scientist a good reason to demand that meteorites doesn't belong in every ones hand. Do you want to go on? Stephan Kambach __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Provenance
An example: If I would make a trade with a museum to obtain a piece from the former Chladni collection, then the value for the meteorite gain by its added historic meaning. If I ' m buying a meteorite from Haag, Hupe, Farmer etc. then last et least I pay the price I would agree with myself. Is it possible to get a better piece for the same price by an unknown dealer I would prefer to trade there. Names like Haag, Farmer, Hupe etc. or an NON historic provenance doesn't make the meteorite more valuable. Did you ever heard that any of the scientists (and they are observing what's going on on the market; also the list- be shure) starting up or sharing such discussions with you about prices like you do? They knowing where is the real value of meteorites. I think they dislike it. Dealers always for shure (greedily) and collectors often deep in their hearts let money comes first to leave one'smark on the meteorites. For them, the evaluation for a meteorite is a summary of a lot positions - in contrast for scientist only counts what the meteorite can tell by itself. Such discussions harms the value of collecting; therfore for scientist a good reason to demand that meteorites doesn't belong in every ones hand. Do you want to go on? Stephan Kambach __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] test
test __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
Hi John, Some specimen cards or COA's would be easier to counterfeit than others. The best one I have seen, in regards to difficulty to duplicate, would be the cards issued by Martin Altmann and Stefan Ralew. Their specimen card is very glossy and professional, but it also has an embedded hologram. This adds an extra element of difficulty to reproducing their cards and would act as a solid deterrent. Truthfully, I don't issue COA's (or even specimen cards) with the vast majority of my specimens for one reason - cost. The bulk of my sales are specks, crumbs, and tiny pieces that cost $10 or less. It's just not financially viable for me to produce cards and COA's for every little micro I sell. At the rate I sell micros, I would need thousands of them over the course of time, and I just cannot afford the expense. When I have to choose between putting gas in my truck (or food in my belly) and ordering up a batch of specimen cards to be custom made, I have to pick the former. I operate on razor-thin margins and this is how I feed my family. I don't have a day job or income outside of meteorites. Also, my inventory has such a high turnover rate, that a meteorite I have in stock today might be gone tomorrow and might never be offered again. And I am a man of opportunity, most of my acquisitions are based on opportunity alone and are not planned. I have no idea what I will be offering tomorrow or next week. Frankly, I am flying by the seat of my pants. I'm not saying what I do is best or should be emulated by others. By the time I figure in the cost of packing-shipping materials (bubble mailers, baggies, gemjars, printer paper/ink, mailing labels) and other stuff like business cards, I am already spending about $2 on packaging each $5 micromount. Figure in PayPal fees and the profit gets even smaller. I have to draw a line somewhere and I draw it at COA's and specimen cards. Not to mention the 20% off coupons I throw around on the web. Every micro I sell comes in a 1.25" gemjar that has a paper label inside. The paper label states the meteorite name, locality, type, and my URL/name. That small piece of paper, is for all intents and purposes my specimen card. On larger or higher-dollar specimens, I do offer specimen cards. Or, if I am reselling a specimen I bought from another dealer, I pass along the original specimen card or a copy of it. Also, if a buyer requests it, I will provide a specimen card (of the conventional type) for any micro I sell. Most buyers don't request it. I am aware that I lose potential buyers because of how I present my meteorites in a spartan way. I have had several collectors contact me privately and tell me this. Honestly, I am not trying to compete with the big guys, the Hupes, Farmer, Cottingham, or any of you veteran dealers. I don't have the financial ability to compete and I have no desire either. I am quite happy in the small niche I have carved out for myself. I have a cadre of repeat customers who like what I offer and they come back again and again. If they are happy, then I am happy. They know what I offer, and if they want a big specimen, they go elsewhere. I often refer them to the other dealers for those big specimens that I cannot offer. Some of those other dealers might be quite surprised how many sales I have referred to them. :) John, I know you have a background in anthropology, and that plays right into what you are saying about provenance. I understand that and cannot disagree at all. I'd really like to see some kind of solution to the problem of authenticity and if there is a universal solution that I can afford to participate in, I will. In the meantime, the best "COA" is buying from a dealer with a solid reputation. This Met List is a good way to check authenticity or the reputation of any dealer. If someone has a question or concern, they can post here and get qualified opinions from dozens of veteran dealers and collectors. Some of those veterans might say - don't buy from that Mike Gilmer guy. He is an a-hole who deals crumbs. They might be right about that. But, every crumb is legit and I do my best to maintain the integrity of every specimen that passes through my hands. I keep detailed records and I can account for every speck I have. I too have a passion for meteorites and I don't do this just to put food on the table. The ability to make a living from this is an extension of that passion. So I do care about my specimens and their authenticity - but I rarely issue COA's or specimen cards. Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, John higgins wrote: > Hi Mike and List, > > > What a great
[meteorite-list] AD: MURRAY, Nakhla, Almahata Sitta, LA002, New Concord, Forest City and more ending on eBay soon !!!
Hello Listers, Thank you for taking a look at my post of meteorites I have for sale on eBay. Here is your chance to own some rare and historic meteorites. Please take a look and if you have any questions or OFFERS please email me and I’ll get back with you. Also if you are looking for bigger/smaller meteorites, let me know too. A meteorite is a meteorite, but a meteorite with history and a legacy, will always add aura to your meteorite collection and value. eBay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html? Featured Auctions MURRAY Ultra Rare CM2 Meteorite 70 Amino Acids Polyols SUGARS - ASU Collection. *not much left* http://www.ebay.com/itm/260985124049?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 HAMBLETON meteorite 2005 UK Pallasite - Rarely sold on eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/260985100713?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 NAKHLA Martian/Mars meteorite - 1911 Fall - SUPER RARE! http://www.ebay.com/itm/260985105986?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 NEW CONCORD meteorite 1860-Horse killer-ASU collection! http://www.ebay.com/itm/260985096833?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 ALMAHATA SITTA meteorite 2008TC3 1st meteorite seen from space - SUPER RARE! http://www.ebay.com/itm/260985116034?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 LOS ANGELES 002 Martian/Mars meteorite 1st & only USA Mars find! http://www.ebay.com/itm/260985112317?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 FOREST CITY meteorite 1890 historic fall -1st COURT CASE BATTLE! http://www.ebay.com/itm/260985119260?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 SYLACAUGA meteorite Mrs Hodge meteorite strike - USA - 809mg fragment http://www.ebay.com/itm/260902947664?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 NWA 2999 rare Angrite meteorite suggested from MERCURY! http://www.ebay.com/itm/260985122206?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 Thank you Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBay Store http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html? http://www.meteoritefalls.com/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Yup, that's it. :) My main point in posting that originally was to say that dealers might consider looking into their local auction houses as an alternate venue for sales. With eBay fees continually climbing, there might come a day when the local auction house's fees are not that much higher than selling on eBay. Combined listing, final value, and PayPal fees already have reached about 10% of the sale price, so we are well on our way. The auction market is a fickle mistress indeed. Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, MexicoDoug wrote: > "The Sikhote on the TV show was similar in size, shape, and quality to > this one - http://www.ebay..."; > > Something like this? > http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/auction-kings-meteorite-man.html > > "that is up to the buyer to decide" > > Yes - so true! > > Kindest wishes > Doug > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Michael Gilmer > To: MexicoDoug > Cc: meteorite-list > Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 4:01 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote > Alin > > > Hi Doug, > > Ok, perhaps a cueball or baseball would be a better analogy. The > specimen was about fist-sized and easily fit in the palm of the hand. > I've seen similar-sized Sikhote shrapnels regularly sell for far less > than $1000, less yet $2000. > > I can't state whether or not any meteorite, even my own, are a good > deal or not - that is up to the buyer to decide. In the case of the > Campo irons I sell on my website, they sell and every buyer has been > happy with their purchase - not a single complaint or return. And > some of those buyers were experienced collectors - they decided that a > Campo that will never rust is worth the extra money. (barring putting > it into a swimming pool) > > The Sikhote on the TV show was similar in size, shape, and quality to > this one - > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Collection-Meteorite-203Gr-Shaped-SIKHOTE-ALIN-Shrapnel-/370541768509?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item564602af3d > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > -- > --- > Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG > > Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone > Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone > RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 > --- > > > On 3/23/12, MexicoDoug wrote: >> Mike G wrote: >> >> "He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of > a >> grapefruit." >> >> "I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for >> about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed > unrealistic >> to me." >> >> Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on >> eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. >> A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States >> Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink >> grapefruit size, is ... >> >> 3.61 kg. >> >> So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for >> these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving > stuff >> away on eBay. ;-) >> The problem with "I caught a fish and it was *this big*" is you are >> building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact > $1000 >> may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may >> not have. >> >> Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? >> >> > http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg >> >> " and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites" >> >> ???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing >> about meteorites? >> >> Kindest wishes >> Doug >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Michael Gilmer >> To: meteorite-list >> Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin >> >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I >> saw that a show called "Auction Kings" was going to have a segment >> featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I >> was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. >> >> Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not >> sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house >> sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. >> >> The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins >> >> This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a >> camera case. He opens it and
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
"The Sikhote on the TV show was similar in size, shape, and quality to this one - http://www.ebay..."; Something like this? http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/auction-kings-meteorite-man.html "that is up to the buyer to decide" Yes - so true! Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer To: MexicoDoug Cc: meteorite-list Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 4:01 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Doug, Ok, perhaps a cueball or baseball would be a better analogy. The specimen was about fist-sized and easily fit in the palm of the hand. I've seen similar-sized Sikhote shrapnels regularly sell for far less than $1000, less yet $2000. I can't state whether or not any meteorite, even my own, are a good deal or not - that is up to the buyer to decide. In the case of the Campo irons I sell on my website, they sell and every buyer has been happy with their purchase - not a single complaint or return. And some of those buyers were experienced collectors - they decided that a Campo that will never rust is worth the extra money. (barring putting it into a swimming pool) The Sikhote on the TV show was similar in size, shape, and quality to this one - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Collection-Meteorite-203Gr-Shaped-SIKHOTE-ALIN-Shrapnel-/370541768509?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item564602af3d Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, MexicoDoug wrote: Mike G wrote: "He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit." "I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me." Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink grapefruit size, is ... 3.61 kg. So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff away on eBay. ;-) The problem with "I caught a fish and it was *this big*" is you are building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may not have. Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg " and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites" ???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing about meteorites? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer To: meteorite-list Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called "Auction Kings" was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a "lump", but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is "magnetic" because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real kicker was still to come. So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for it. Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen eve
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Hi Doug, Ok, perhaps a cueball or baseball would be a better analogy. The specimen was about fist-sized and easily fit in the palm of the hand. I've seen similar-sized Sikhote shrapnels regularly sell for far less than $1000, less yet $2000. I can't state whether or not any meteorite, even my own, are a good deal or not - that is up to the buyer to decide. In the case of the Campo irons I sell on my website, they sell and every buyer has been happy with their purchase - not a single complaint or return. And some of those buyers were experienced collectors - they decided that a Campo that will never rust is worth the extra money. (barring putting it into a swimming pool) The Sikhote on the TV show was similar in size, shape, and quality to this one - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Collection-Meteorite-203Gr-Shaped-SIKHOTE-ALIN-Shrapnel-/370541768509?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item564602af3d Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, MexicoDoug wrote: > Mike G wrote: > > "He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a > grapefruit." > > "I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for > about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic > to me." > > Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on > eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. > A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States > Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink > grapefruit size, is ... > > 3.61 kg. > > So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for > these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff > away on eBay. ;-) > The problem with "I caught a fish and it was *this big*" is you are > building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 > may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may > not have. > > Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? > > http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg > > " and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites" > > ???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing > about meteorites? > > Kindest wishes > Doug > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Michael Gilmer > To: meteorite-list > Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am > Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin > > > Hi Folks, > > So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I > saw that a show called "Auction Kings" was going to have a segment > featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I > was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. > > Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not > sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house > sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. > > The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins > > This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a > camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about > the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the > shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was > what most of us would call a "lump", but it was obvious from the > appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. > > First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a > certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious > reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of > COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, > grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for > it. > > Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is > "magnetic" because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the > key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment > on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real > kicker was still to come. > > So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the > meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for > it. > > Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen ever > mentioned. So without knowing the weight, it is difficult to assign > to solid value to the piece. But judging by what I saw (apparent size > and shape), I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or > eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed > unrealistic to me, but this is television a
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Mike G wrote: "He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit." "I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me." Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink grapefruit size, is ... 3.61 kg. So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff away on eBay. ;-) The problem with "I caught a fish and it was *this big*" is you are building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may not have. Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg " and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites" ???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing about meteorites? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer To: meteorite-list Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called "Auction Kings" was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a "lump", but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is "magnetic" because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real kicker was still to come. So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for it. Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen ever mentioned. So without knowing the weight, it is difficult to assign to solid value to the piece. But judging by what I saw (apparent size and shape), I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me, but this is television and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites, so anything is possible. The auction part comes, and they have a nice turn out with maybe two or three dozen potential bidders in attendance. The meteorite ignites a bidding war and the final price for the piece was.(*drumroll please*).. $2000! And the buyer was thrilled because he thought he got a good deal. Of course, once he gets home and does some Googling to learn more about his new meteorite, he might change his mind about the deal he got. He could have went on eBay and bought a half-dozen Sikhote shrapnels of that size for $2000. So the moral of this story is - if you have a local auction house near you, go down there with a meteorite and you might be pleasantly surprised how much money it will fetch. I'm opening up the yellow pages today and/or getting on the internet and see what kind of auction houses we have here in the Tampa area. I'll be more than happy to offer them all the $200 stones and irons they want, as long as they fetch $2000 each. Heck, even after the auction house takes it's percentage, that is still a great deal for the seller. And the best part is, once the buyer gets home and finds out he/she got burned on the price, they cannot get mad at the seller, because they are the ones who bid the item up. Dealers - check your local auction houses. Best regards, MikeG -- ---
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
Hi John and List, I was not knocking any dealer's reputation, just expressing an opinion about COA's in general. I think we are blurring the line here between a specimen card and a COA. I like specimen cards. I am indifferent towards COA's. For example, you say that a meteorite from a well-known dealer is worth more than a similar meteorite offered by a lesser-known dealer. This is true to some extent, but that increase in worth comes from the seller of the meteorite and not the piece of paper that came with it. For example, an unscrupulous collector or dealer could easily forge a Hupe or Farmer specimen card. This is not US currency we are talking about that has built-in safeguards against counterfeiting. All it would take to turn any meteorite into a Hupe or Farmer meteorite is a laser printer, card stock paper, and Photoshop. Or, easier yet, a scanner. Scan an original specimen card and Photoshop in whatever details you want. This is not rocket science and most 12 year olds are computer savvy enough to do this. This is where provenance and dealer reputation is of the utmost importance, and neither of those things hinge solely on a piece of paper or cardstock. Everyone knows Bob Haag and the Hupes, and we all know they abide by the highest standards. They would never pass off a misrepresented meteorite and if they say they acquired it originally from collector X or dealer X, then you can take their word on it. The COA or specimen card is secondary. Ironic thing is, the perceived increased value of a meteorite that comes from a well-known dealer is only valid with knowledgeable buyers. A newbie who doesn't know a Hupe from John Smith and doesn't know or care where it came from, or chain of custody, or authenticity. I've bought specimens from you, the Hupes, Farmer, and dozens of other dealers and turned around and flipped those specimens for a profit - I am lesser known than those dealers, yet I realized a higher price for the specimen. Why? Because the market is a fickle mistress and there are a million buyers out there from newbies to veterans and each buyer has different criteria concerning what they regard as valuable. If I buy a slice of meteorite from you and then try to resell that slice, is it worth less or more? Who decides? I can offer it for X dollars and I may or may not get that price. It's up to the buyer to decide whether or not the specimen is worth the money. That is why the gentleman on Auction Kings paid $2000 for a $200 specimen and thought he got a great deal. If he's happy, then he did. I'm not knocking any dealer, specimen cards, or provenance. What I am knocking is COA's for meteorites. There is no governing body, not even the IMCA, that can grade or authenticate any meteorite with authority and then provide a COA that has any real meaning. That may change one day, but as of right now it's true. Give me any dealer's COA and I can reproduce a copy of it that is indistinguishable from the original. And that is the danger with COA's - they provide a false sense of security regarding the specimen's authenticity. The best safeguard against buying a fake or misrepresented meteorite is to buy only from reputable dealers - and buyers discover who those dealers are by doing their homework and by gaining experience with the market. I may be a "lesser known" dealer, but my track record is spotless regarding authenticity and will always remain so, because whether I am liked or not, my specimens are exactly what I say they are - from the tiniest speck to the biggest iron. I won't name names, but a few of the "well known" dealers do exactly what you say you don't like - they throw a specimen in a ziploc baggie, write on the baggie with a sharpie, and provide no specimen card or COA. When I first encountered this years ago, I was very surprised. I once bought a $1000 slice of Seymchan pallasite that came in a plain bubble mailer with no receipt, no card, no COA, and no packaging material to protect it. I was amazed that it arrived undamaged through USPS with no insurance or tracking. This was from a very well-known dealer, member of this List, IMCA member, and someone who was recently in the media. Needless to say, I haven't bought anything from that person since and probably will not buy from them again ever. I was lucky my specimen didn't get lost or damaged. John, I do agree with you 100% that all dealers should get together and provide some kind of standardized COA or authentication regime - it would greatly improve the integrity of the market. But, implementing such a regime would be problematic and I think that is why we have not seen this happen yet. For example, is a specimen really Zulu Queen, or just an NWA L-type chondrite? Who can tell? Only lab-work will tell, and not even the most trained eye can authenticate most meteorites. Until we find someone who has an electron microprobe and is willing to use that instrument for free to authentica
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
Hi Mike, Adam, and List, Interesting opinions. You guys touched on a major issue in the Meteorite Community, and there are parts of your statements I don't agree with. I would really like to share how I feel about the subject. First of all Mike you said, " I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it." Mike with all due respect, I don't agree with this. Why would you try to knock a dealers reputation? For example a meteorite sold by Mike Farmer or Greg Hupe is worth more than a meteorite that is sold without any provenance or COA. For example lets say unknown dealer X is selling a Howardite, and well known dealer Y is selling the same Howardite. Who do you think is going to realize a higher price? The well know dealer. Now if that meteorite losses it's COA from the dealer who sold it, what happens? Usually the meteorite immediately looses value, how can you explain this if the COA is not worth the paper it's printed on? For example a meteorite said to be from from the Bob Hagg collection without Bob's paperwork has a much lower value than a meteorite from the Bob Hagg collection with his COA right? So please extrapolate exactly what you mean and how you come to this conclusion. I strongly disagree with your opinion. Much of the value in meteorites is locked up in the provenance and not the meteorite itself in my opinion. I think what is much too overlooked is that a meteorite dealers reputation is the most important factor in meteorite prices. That includes the following they create, the friends they make, impressions that collectors get all translate into value and that it why most collectors demand individual COA's be issued with each meteorite sold. I think this makes a lot of sense because the process it takes to build a good reputation takes years. The piece of paper adds value. Of course a paper from Hagg is worth more than a COA from Joe Schmo. But to say the paper has no value is the most insane thing I ever heard. How else would you know if your buying pedigree meteorites from dealers who stand for integrity, honor and strive to provide the customer the best experience. A lot of new comers think that the value is in the meteorite itself, and then when they try to sell them, they are greatly let down and wonder why their meteorites don't fetch the same price that the other more well known dealers get all day long. Because it comes down to more than just the meteorite itself and taking it for face value. You fail to consider the amount of friends the advanced dealers had made over the years, the networking they have done and the awareness they have created about their meteorite and the way they are presented. And most importantly the way they make their customers feel is the most important factor to me. Is it just a roughly cut rock, sloppily thrown in a bag with a sharpie marking? OR IS IT A EXPERIENCE FOR THE CUSTOMER? The experience adds value, making the customer feel good is an integral part of any business, even meteorite dealing. The COA and provenance conveys that feeling to the customer. It makes them say WOW! I can't wait to see what this dealer has to offer me next. It gives them something to hold onto other than just the meteorite itself. Sure you can put on narrow vision goggles and only focus on the meteorite itself, throwing everything else away and assigning absolutely no value as to how the meteorite ended up where it is, but I don't think that's a very scientific approach. It's all part of the story and how you ended up with the specimen is a big part of meteorites and collecting. I for one get very depressed when I buy a meteorite on eBay and it comes with no card! What happens if I lose the bag it's in or the marking wears off? what happens to the specimen, the value drops to 0. Cant sell it because you don't know what it is. And if you ever do want to sell it, how can you prove where it came from. The COA answers a lot of those questions, sure you can explain to kingdom come what it is, but it wont prove the origin for the 99% of meteorite collectors who demand provenance, and I don't blame them one bit. The value to any assigned meteorite is less without the papers. Now I will admit, it can all come down to perspective, when your dealing with small micro fragments, I sympathize with your view Mike, it's not worth the time or the expense to make a COA, but you can always give something, even a little piece of paper I hope, to say it came from you and what it is. Maybe comparing a micro to a macro is useless and it's like comparing Apples to Oranges... Two totally different perspectives that are neither right or wrong just are what they are, each of us our own independent opinions. Adam you said, " A pro
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Michael: I watch this show as I'm fascinated will all kinds of collectables, and this is an old episode which first aired about a year ago. The auction house is based in Atlanta GA. I agree that it was very high, but the is the nature of autions. Perhaps try one near and see what happens. Greg S -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer Sent: 23 Mar 2012 14:38:21 GMT To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called "Auction Kings" was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a "lump", but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is "magnetic" because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real kicker was still to come. So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for it. Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen ever mentioned. So without knowing the weight, it is difficult to assign to solid value to the piece. But judging by what I saw (apparent size and shape), I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me, but this is television and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites, so anything is possible. The auction part comes, and they have a nice turn out with maybe two or three dozen potential bidders in attendance. The meteorite ignites a bidding war and the final price for the piece was.(*drumroll please*).. $2000! And the buyer was thrilled because he thought he got a good deal. Of course, once he gets home and does some Googling to learn more about his new meteorite, he might change his mind about the deal he got. He could have went on eBay and bought a half-dozen Sikhote shrapnels of that size for $2000. So the moral of this story is - if you have a local auction house near you, go down there with a meteorite and you might be pleasantly surprised how much money it will fetch. I'm opening up the yellow pages today and/or getting on the internet and see what kind of auction houses we have here in the Tampa area. I'll be more than happy to offer them all the $200 stones and irons they want, as long as they fetch $2000 each. Heck, even after the auction house takes it's percentage, that is still a great deal for the seller. And the best part is, once the buyer gets home and finds out he/she got burned on the price, they cannot get mad at the seller, because they are the ones who bid the item up. Dealers - check your local auction houses. Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Need Geoff Notkins phone# please
Lost my phone, and geoffs# please help, thanks, Also need Rubens # Bill Hall Bill Halls Rock and Gem Shop Bend Oregon 541-419-2210 Sent from my iPhone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AZ Teacher asking for help - Geology
Jim, Mike, list, My wife has taught kindergarten in public shools for 28 years and she has used this 'DonorsChoose.org' web site successfully herself in the past. She has also been very disappointed with this site in the past. The problem with this web site is that , if the teacher is unsuccessful in collecting 100% of her funds needed by the deadline. She forfeits the entire amount and "DonorsChiise.org keeps 100% of whatever amount of money was actually collected. In other words this teacher may get nothing , nada , zero, of the money you gave. So, it seems this org loves to see people ask for large sums because they keep the money collected in it's entirety and the teacher gets nothing if they fail to collect all of the money requested. Further more. This teacher has no say in where the money collected ends up going. In my opinion if they were fair they would allow the teacher to set a lower goal that would match the funds collected. But they do not. So, unless you are willing to give 100% of the money she needs she may end up with nothing. Best regards, Carl meteoritemax Cheers Jim Wooddell wrote: > Hi Mike and thank you for your consideration. Many hundreds of teachers are > using this service and I too think the recommend fee is a bit high for a > Non-Profit. Still, I donated as it was this teachers choice to use that > service and to apply the suggested, non mandatory contribution to the site > that helps promote the request. I did not use the PayPal feature, so that > is good info. > May you would consider contacting this teach direct and helping! That would > completely eliminate the website organization. Just a thought, if you wish > to help. > > Jim > > > Jim Wooddell > http://k7wfr.us > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Mike Fiedler" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 11:27 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AZ Teacher asking for help - Geology > > > Maybe I'm just having a bad day, but the contribution mechanism kind > of annoyed me. > > I think few things are more deserving of support than a teacher taking > the initiative to make science exciting and compelling to young > people. I nearly contributed, but then ran into some deal-breakers: > > While the 'DonorsChoose.org' web site does accept contributions by > PayPal, they require that the donor 'pay-by-check' . . . The whole > idea of PayPal is to not share unnecessarily your personal info. I > would accept PayPal as it functions on ebay. . . . payee gets my > email, my address, and the money. > > Secondly, once you share your email, there seems no way to 'opt-out' > of being hit up with unrelated requests. > > I appreciate it when a person who shares a common interest sends me > info about a worthy cause. Case in point: I recently contributed to > the project discussed at the URL < > http://projectfreedom.bbnow.org/about.php > , but it was because > another recumbent bike enthusiast referred me to the site. Shared > interest is the basis of 'community'. > > But I don't want some anonymous ''organizing entrepreneur' who accepts > an (OPTIONAL???) donation equal to 17% of a project's costs deciding > what I need to learn about next. And emailing me a steady stream of > 'opportunities' to make 'optional' donations to his personal pocket. > I get way too many unfocused solicitations as it is. > > That 17% seems a hefty cut to 'OPTIONALLY' accept for the service of > sharing info, and processing the collection of EFTs. Just how > optional is optional? The verbiage alone sets my teeth on edge. > > OK, end of off topic rant. > > Hope everyone has a nice day! > > -- Mike > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:00 AM, > wrote: > > > > Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to > > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > meteorite-list-requ...@meteoritecentral.com > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > meteorite-list-ow...@meteoritecentral.com > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. AD - new pallasite Conception Junction, MO (Karl Aston) > > 2. AD: New material, rare American finds, and more (Mike Bandli) > > 3. Re: Solar flares (ot) ? or are ions meteorites? (Sterling K. Webb) > > 4. AD: Special: An unique and truly exotic anomalous > > Mesosiderite - NWA 7025 (Chladnis Heirs) > > 5. this time it is for good (steve arnold) > > 6. Re: Solar flares (ot) ? or are ions meteorites? (Chris Peterson) > > 7. Re: this time it is for good (Mike Groetz) > > 8. Tissint? Yes, it tis! (and a tease on Shergotty) (Kevin Kichinka) > > 9. test (JoshuaTreeMuseum) > > 10. **Ad** Last Minute eBay Reminder New Arizona Find, Tissint.. > > (Larry Atkins) > > 11. Re: this t
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Hi Adam and List, Some good points there. About COA's - even if a COA comes from a trusted grading or certification firm, the value in the COA is not the COA itself, it is the name of the grading or certification service on it that is known to collectors of that particular type of collectible. If you buy a rare collectible and the COA says "Confirmed authentic by Acme Certification Services, Walla Walla Washington, Serial number #123456", then the value of the certificate is that the buyer or potential buyer can contact Acme Services, have them check their database and confirm that the item in question is indeed genuine. However, anyone can print a piece of paper that looks like it came from Acme Certification Services and the ruse will only be exposed if the buyer follows up on the info printed on the COA. The COA itself is worthless. In the world of meteorites, there is no certification service or central authority that can be relied upon to authenticate meteorites. Without an authoritative body backing a COA, it's just a pretty piece of paper. Otherwise, I agree 100% with the other things you said. :) Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, Adam Hupe wrote: > A lot of buyers judge the price of collectable items from eBay. EBay is > not known for fetching top dollar, especially on collectables. A solid > auction house will almost always fetch more than what would be realized > on eBay. The problem with many auction houses is that their commissions are > out of line, some charging in excess of 40%! Then some fleece the > buyers with expensive shipping and handling fees. > > Don't get me wrong, there are a few great auction companies out there, I > have used some of them. One problem I encountered is that if the item > doesn't sell or the buyer can't pay for the item after bidding on it, > then the seller can be out of some serious money including catalog and > no-sell fees. They need to do a better job of vetting their bidders! > > A lot of dealers don't bother with middle men anymore since they can get > wholesale prices right off of eBay. Some specialty shops get most of > there product from eBay, mark it up considerably and put it on their > shelves. The problem is that a lot the collectable items offered on eBay > have no expertise behind them and are accidentally or purposely > misrepresented. > > There are reputable independent companies that can authenticate and paper > items so COAs are important to me. I wouldn't purchase a valuable > coin, baseball card or any other collectable without first seeing that > it has been papered through an independent grading and certificate > service. A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big > bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where > some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves. > > Kind Regards and Happy Collecting, > > Adam > __ > > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
A lot of buyers judge the price of collectable items from eBay. EBay is not known for fetching top dollar, especially on collectables. A solid auction house will almost always fetch more than what would be realized on eBay. The problem with many auction houses is that their commissions are out of line, some charging in excess of 40%! Then some fleece the buyers with expensive shipping and handling fees. Don't get me wrong, there are a few great auction companies out there, I have used some of them. One problem I encountered is that if the item doesn't sell or the buyer can't pay for the item after bidding on it, then the seller can be out of some serious money including catalog and no-sell fees. They need to do a better job of vetting their bidders! A lot of dealers don't bother with middle men anymore since they can get wholesale prices right off of eBay. Some specialty shops get most of there product from eBay, mark it up considerably and put it on their shelves. The problem is that a lot the collectable items offered on eBay have no expertise behind them and are accidentally or purposely misrepresented. There are reputable independent companies that can authenticate and paper items so COAs are important to me. I wouldn't purchase a valuable coin, baseball card or any other collectable without first seeing that it has been papered through an independent grading and certificate service. A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves. Kind Regards and Happy Collecting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD New China Fall L5 Xining (Huangzhong) meteorite ending within tonight
Dear lists, Here are the links for 2 groups of China new witness fall Xining meteorite on ebay auction ending within 10 hours, thanks for looking! 4.03g group of fragments, some with the crust and some with the shock veins http://www.ebay.com/itm/150779876378?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 4.38g group of fragments, some with the crust and some with the shock veins http://www.ebay.com/itm/150779877310?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 If the weights you need are not in the listings, please email me for more choise of the meteorites. Regards! Wu IMCA1371 Email:wyh...@163.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called "Auction Kings" was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a "lump", but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is "magnetic" because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real kicker was still to come. So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for it. Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen ever mentioned. So without knowing the weight, it is difficult to assign to solid value to the piece. But judging by what I saw (apparent size and shape), I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me, but this is television and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites, so anything is possible. The auction part comes, and they have a nice turn out with maybe two or three dozen potential bidders in attendance. The meteorite ignites a bidding war and the final price for the piece was.(*drumroll please*).. $2000! And the buyer was thrilled because he thought he got a good deal. Of course, once he gets home and does some Googling to learn more about his new meteorite, he might change his mind about the deal he got. He could have went on eBay and bought a half-dozen Sikhote shrapnels of that size for $2000. So the moral of this story is - if you have a local auction house near you, go down there with a meteorite and you might be pleasantly surprised how much money it will fetch. I'm opening up the yellow pages today and/or getting on the internet and see what kind of auction houses we have here in the Tampa area. I'll be more than happy to offer them all the $200 stones and irons they want, as long as they fetch $2000 each. Heck, even after the auction house takes it's percentage, that is still a great deal for the seller. And the best part is, once the buyer gets home and finds out he/she got burned on the price, they cannot get mad at the seller, because they are the ones who bid the item up. Dealers - check your local auction houses. Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: NWA 6947 http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpod.asp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
