[meteorite-list] Origin of non-radial Imbrium Basin Sculpture (Moon)
Vast asteroid created 'Man in Moon's eye' crater by Rebecca Morelle, BBC News, July 20, 2016 http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36847382 Asteroid that formed moon's Imbrium Basin may have been protoplanet-sized, July 20, 2016 http://phys.org/news/2016-07-asteroid-moon-imbrium-basin-protoplanet-sized.html https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160720135637.htm The paper is: Schultz, P. H., and D. A. Crawford, 20016, Origin and implications of non-radial Imbrium Sculpture on the Moon Nature. vol. 535, pp. 391–394 doi:10.1038/nature18278 http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v535/n7612/full/nature18278.html Schultz, P. H., 2012, Origin of Imbrium Basin sculpture. Geological Society of America Abstracts with Programs. vol. 44, no. 7, p.481 https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2012AM/webprogram/Paper209184.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad: New Brecciated Eucrite, NWA 10667, affordable slices (AD 3/12)
Hello Meteorite Enthusiasts! Hope you are all having a great week! I was able to produce some lovely and affordable specimens of my newly classified Eucrite NWA 10667. Please see the link below for photos. I think you will find it has an incredible brecciated appearance. 3.6g 54$ 5.3g 79$ 7.2g 108$ 10.3g 154$ Photos: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ws54j6qpylz47l6/AAAsrJ26q8bzFBnNWHvUbANea?dl=0 The official classification per Dr. Tony Irving is: HED Achondrite (Eucrite, Monomict Basaltic Breccia, Shocked) Metbull: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=63245 I was able to produce six slices but two of them are being stubborn with polishing, so I they are not ready to sell. Priority shipping in the USA is free. International will be affordable via USPS first class. Please contact me off list if you are interested. Hope everyone is doing great! Cheers! John A. Shea MD IMCA 3295 __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Earth time dilation: minimal latitude-dependence
> I'm now working through the math to figure > out the latitude on earth where you age the > slowest. ;-) Hi Rob, and fellow time pirates, That's one interesting calculation and I'd have thought the latitude was slam-dunk 90 N, because that's over 20 km closer to the center of gravity all surface points on the equator according to the shapes that fit the spinning oblate globe! Time dilation at the north pole factory, and near-light speed travel (like over 99.% the speed of light) could help explain how Santa's factory churns out all those toys in such a short time and easily delivers them, plus NORAD keeps a very close eye on him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LppGorkw508 However given the speed he travels at, I would think Santa's waistline would be ablated after the run, and he would leave ionic trails. Not to mention, Rudolf's nose would be blue-shifted beyond UV the spectrum of visible light. (Which means the above NORAD video describes an inefficient tracking procedure) ... so maybe they have ulterior motives. How to define "aging"? A loss of a few unhealthy isotopes? Biological clocks are as complicated a finding the Fountain of Youth here in Florida (though it may exist in a deep sinkhole somewhere) ... and have a temperature dependence. A meteoroid on the other hand can weather (suspended on autopilot) 4.57 billion years and be fresh aside from the isotope composition, unless it meets some heat, radiation, reactants such as oxygen, and/or solvents like water. And even further back to meteorites: Rob's comment that Earth's core is around a year or two younger helps motivate ballpark limits of aging in the context of the original discussion on meteorite age. If the core of Earth is limited to be calculated as 2.5 years younger than the crust, this is the order of magnitude of the limit we are dealing with for time dilation for most meteoroids. We can compare that to the age of the Solar System, which is peer reviewed from a refractory inclusion in NWA 2364 (CV3) that give the age as 4,568.2 million years. Without looking up if they covered their error bars in the determination, just consider the significant figures alone they quote which leave us with an uncertainty of 100,000 years. So before we have to worry about time dilation for native small Solar System objects forcing a time adjustment, we will have to know the age of the Solar System to within say, 10 years or so. Not that Rome was built in a day ;-) Kindest wishes, Doug -Original Message- From: Matson, Rob D. To: MexicoDoug ; meteorite-list Sent: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 4:13 pm Subject: Earth time dilation: minimal latitude-dependence Hi All, > I'm now working through the math to figure out the latitude on earth where you > age the slowest. Turns out the combination of 1/r GR effect from mass, a latitude-dependent quadrupole component, and the centripetal term (special relativity) due to the earth's rotation nearly compensate for one another in such a way that there is very little change in clock speeds at the earth's surface as a strict function of latitude. Clocks run slowest at the equator, marginally faster at midlatitudes, and then slower again at the poles (but not quite as slow as at the equator). Local changes in gravitational field strength probably dominate over changes with latitude. And altitude plays a much stronger roll at any latitude. --Rob __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Earth time dilation: minimal latitude-dependence
Hi All, > I'm now working through the math to figure out the latitude on earth where you > age the slowest. Turns out the combination of 1/r GR effect from mass, a latitude-dependent quadrupole component, and the centripetal term (special relativity) due to the earth's rotation nearly compensate for one another in such a way that there is very little change in clock speeds at the earth's surface as a strict function of latitude. Clocks run slowest at the equator, marginally faster at midlatitudes, and then slower again at the poles (but not quite as slow as at the equator). Local changes in gravitational field strength probably dominate over changes with latitude. And altitude plays a much stronger roll at any latitude. --Rob __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] More fun with GR
Hi Doug -- you are very close to the correct altitude of ~3167 km (~1.4965 * earth equatorial radius). I'm now working through the math to figure out the latitude on earth where you age the slowest. ;-) --Rob -Original Message- From: MexicoDoug [mailto:mexicod...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 9:57 AM To: falco...@sbcglobal.net; Matson, Rob D. Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More fun with GR Hi Rob and the other meteoroidal travelers, I'd say a good mean altitude for government work would be about half of Earth's radius, and that ought to smooth out any technicalities to gain an understanding of the magnitudes which is what is interestng about the new question. A shortcut to calculate that is to set the free fall velocity (no atmosphere) equal to the orbital (tangential) velocity; it avoids the calculus by using the velocity derived from the drop in potential from orbit altitude to surface level. v^2 = GM/r' (orbital) v^2 = 2GM/r -2GM/r' (gravitational) If you solve for the altitude simultaneously, r'-r, you get the altitude of half again Earth's diameter easily. Unless there are more Golgafrinchans lurking somewhere in the thread history! That is a Medium Earth Orbit. In a perfect universe, 3189 km altitude. Nothing special orbit wise, unless you are temporally centric in which case it could be called a temporally synchronous orbit, which clearly the universe is notvery concerned about as we are ;-) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: James Beauchamp To: Matson, Rob D. Cc: MexicoDoug ; meteorite-list Sent: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 10:31 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More fun with GR For the satellite, it varies according to the gravity field it flies over. Technically none exists because the gravity field is never constant. It dithers. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 21, 2016, at 2:01 AM, Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi Doug, I think you would have come up with the correct answer if I had given a more precise value for the clock slow down relative to a stationary clock in deep space: it should be 0.69693 parts per billion relative to a clock at sea-level on the earth's equator, or 60.2 microseconds per day. It is no accident that the distant rock's velocity would need to be 11.19 km/sec for its clock to remain synchronized with one on the earth's equator. That value should be very familiar to meteorite folks. :-) Here's a harder, but related problem: at what altitude must a satellite in a circular orbit fly for its clock to run at the same speed as a clock on the earth's equator? Another interesting GR factoid: the core of the earth is actually 2 1/2 years younger than the crust (ignoring convection in the core, plate tectonics, etc.) If the earth is modeled as having constant density, the calculation works out to about 1 1/2 years younger, but of course earth is much denser at the core, resulting in even greater time dilation there. --Rob From: MexicoDoug [mexicod...@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 4:03 PM To: Matson, Rob D.; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites Rob and all, > For instance, even at solar system escape velocity at earth's distance > from the sun (42 km/sec) What is...The ultimate question of life and the answer to everything? > Extra-credit question for the mathematically > inclined: at what velocity relative to the earth would a meteoroid > have to travel to have its clock stay in sync with a clock at the > earth's surface? :-) Given the figure you mention of 0.6 ppb (52 microseconds per day faster) this question asks be nullified, maybe 10 km/s velocity relative to earth? A good relative velocity to hunt a flock of wild space geese coming to roost on Earth, wearing accurate Rolexes ... But should the meteoroid transition to our gravity, the on-board Rolex might abandon its precision for a few spectacular minutes, and have an "error" of a couple of nanoseconds ;-) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list To: meteorite-list Sent: Mon, Jul 18, 2016 6:43 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites It's not a bad idea, Pete, but unfortunately the time dilation is really minimal unless you get up to a substantial fraction of the speed of light. For instance, even at solar system escape velocity at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec), a meteoroid's clock would be running at about 10 parts per billion slower than that of a stationary rock. (Additional note: due to general relativity, a clock on a meteoroid would be running about 0.6 parts per billion *faster* than a clock at the earth's surface, but that is more than made up for by the time dilation due to special relativity.) Extra-credit question for the mathematically inclined: at what velocity relative to the earth would
Re: [meteorite-list] More fun with GR
Hi Rob and the other meteoroidal travelers, I'd say a good mean altitude for government work would be about half of Earth's radius, and that ought to smooth out any technicalities to gain an understanding of the magnitudes which is what is interestng about the new question. A shortcut to calculate that is to set the free fall velocity (no atmosphere) equal to the orbital (tangential) velocity; it avoids the calculus by using the velocity derived from the drop in potential from orbit altitude to surface level. v^2 = GM/r' (orbital) v^2 = 2GM/r -2GM/r' (gravitational) If you solve for the altitude simultaneously, r'-r, you get the altitude of half again Earth's diameter easily. Unless there are more Golgafrinchans lurking somewhere in the thread history! That is a Medium Earth Orbit. In a perfect universe, 3189 km altitude. Nothing special orbit wise, unless you are temporally centric in which case it could be called a temporally synchronous orbit, which clearly the universe is notvery concerned about as we are ;-) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: James Beauchamp To: Matson, Rob D. Cc: MexicoDoug ; meteorite-list Sent: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 10:31 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More fun with GR For the satellite, it varies according to the gravity field it flies over. Technically none exists because the gravity field is never constant. It dithers. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 21, 2016, at 2:01 AM, Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi Doug, I think you would have come up with the correct answer if I had given a more precise value for the clock slow down relative to a stationary clock in deep space: it should be 0.69693 parts per billion relative to a clock at sea-level on the earth's equator, or 60.2 microseconds per day. It is no accident that the distant rock's velocity would need to be 11.19 km/sec for its clock to remain synchronized with one on the earth's equator. That value should be very familiar to meteorite folks. :-) Here's a harder, but related problem: at what altitude must a satellite in a circular orbit fly for its clock to run at the same speed as a clock on the earth's equator? Another interesting GR factoid: the core of the earth is actually 2 1/2 years younger than the crust (ignoring convection in the core, plate tectonics, etc.) If the earth is modeled as having constant density, the calculation works out to about 1 1/2 years younger, but of course earth is much denser at the core, resulting in even greater time dilation there. --Rob From: MexicoDoug [mexicod...@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 4:03 PM To: Matson, Rob D.; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites Rob and all, > For instance, even at solar system escape velocity > at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec) What is...The ultimate question of life and the answer to everything? > Extra-credit question for the mathematically > inclined: at what velocity relative to the earth > would a meteoroid have to travel to have its > clock stay in sync with a clock at the earth's > surface? :-) Given the figure you mention of 0.6 ppb (52 microseconds per day faster) this question asks be nullified, maybe 10 km/s velocity relative to earth? A good relative velocity to hunt a flock of wild space geese coming to roost on Earth, wearing accurate Rolexes ... But should the meteoroid transition to our gravity, the on-board Rolex might abandon its precision for a few spectacular minutes, and have an "error" of a couple of nanoseconds ;-) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list To: meteorite-list Sent: Mon, Jul 18, 2016 6:43 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites It's not a bad idea, Pete, but unfortunately the time dilation is really minimal unless you get up to a substantial fraction of the speed of light. For instance, even at solar system escape velocity at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec), a meteoroid's clock would be running at about 10 parts per billion slower than that of a stationary rock. (Additional note: due to general relativity, a clock on a meteoroid would be running about 0.6 parts per billion *faster* than a clock at the earth's surface, but that is more than made up for by the time dilation due to special relativity.) Extra-credit question for the mathematically inclined: at what velocity relative to the earth would a meteoroid have to travel to have its clock stay in sync with a clock at the earth's surface? :-) --Rob -Original Message- From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Pete Shugar via Meteorite-list Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 3:12 PM To: The List Subject: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites greetings to all, my background is in electronics. everything deals with either C or C2. Einstein states that nothing
Re: [meteorite-list] More fun with GR
For the satellite, it varies according to the gravity field it flies over. Technically none exists because the gravity field is never constant. It dithers. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 21, 2016, at 2:01 AM, Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi Doug, I think you would have come up with the correct answer if I had given a more precise value for the clock slow down relative to a stationary clock in deep space: it should be 0.69693 parts per billion relative to a clock at sea-level on the earth's equator, or 60.2 microseconds per day. It is no accident that the distant rock's velocity would need to be 11.19 km/sec for its clock to remain synchronized with one on the earth's equator. That value should be very familiar to meteorite folks. :-) Here's a harder, but related problem: at what altitude must a satellite in a circular orbit fly for its clock to run at the same speed as a clock on the earth's equator? Another interesting GR factoid: the core of the earth is actually 2 1/2 years younger than the crust (ignoring convection in the core, plate tectonics, etc.) If the earth is modeled as having constant density, the calculation works out to about 1 1/2 years younger, but of course earth is much denser at the core, resulting in even greater time dilation there. --Rob From: MexicoDoug [mexicod...@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 4:03 PM To: Matson, Rob D.; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites Rob and all, > For instance, even at solar system escape velocity > at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec) What is...The ultimate question of life and the answer to everything? > Extra-credit question for the mathematically > inclined: at what velocity relative to the earth > would a meteoroid have to travel to have its > clock stay in sync with a clock at the earth's > surface? :-) Given the figure you mention of 0.6 ppb (52 microseconds per day faster) this question asks be nullified, maybe 10 km/s velocity relative to earth? A good relative velocity to hunt a flock of wild space geese coming to roost on Earth, wearing accurate Rolexes ... But should the meteoroid transition to our gravity, the on-board Rolex might abandon its precision for a few spectacular minutes, and have an "error" of a couple of nanoseconds ;-) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list To: meteorite-list Sent: Mon, Jul 18, 2016 6:43 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites It's not a bad idea, Pete, but unfortunately the time dilation is really minimal unless you get up to a substantial fraction of the speed of light. For instance, even at solar system escape velocity at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec), a meteoroid's clock would be running at about 10 parts per billion slower than that of a stationary rock. (Additional note: due to general relativity, a clock on a meteoroid would be running about 0.6 parts per billion *faster* than a clock at the earth's surface, but that is more than made up for by the time dilation due to special relativity.) Extra-credit question for the mathematically inclined: at what velocity relative to the earth would a meteoroid have to travel to have its clock stay in sync with a clock at the earth's surface? :-) --Rob -Original Message- From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Pete Shugar via Meteorite-list Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 3:12 PM To: The List Subject: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites greetings to all, my background is in electronics. everything deals with either C or C2. Einstein states that nothing goes faster than the speed of light and that as you approach the speed of light, things get older slower. So this meteorite in it's travels is going at a rate that is a subtantual percentage of the speed of light. Has anyone taken this into consideration when placing an age on the meteorite? Just a thought to tickle the old brain cells!! Pete Shugar __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __
[meteorite-list] AD: lot of mirror polished, quality meteorite Thin Sections
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[meteorite-list] More fun with GR
Hi Doug, I think you would have come up with the correct answer if I had given a more precise value for the clock slow down relative to a stationary clock in deep space: it should be 0.69693 parts per billion relative to a clock at sea-level on the earth's equator, or 60.2 microseconds per day. It is no accident that the distant rock's velocity would need to be 11.19 km/sec for its clock to remain synchronized with one on the earth's equator. That value should be very familiar to meteorite folks. :-) Here's a harder, but related problem: at what altitude must a satellite in a circular orbit fly for its clock to run at the same speed as a clock on the earth's equator? Another interesting GR factoid: the core of the earth is actually 2 1/2 years younger than the crust (ignoring convection in the core, plate tectonics, etc.) If the earth is modeled as having constant density, the calculation works out to about 1 1/2 years younger, but of course earth is much denser at the core, resulting in even greater time dilation there. --Rob From: MexicoDoug [mexicod...@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 4:03 PM To: Matson, Rob D.; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites Rob and all, >For instance, even at solar system escape velocity >at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec) What is...The ultimate question of life and the answer to everything? >Extra-credit question for the mathematically >inclined: at what velocity relative to the earth >would a meteoroid have to travel to have its >clock stay in sync with a clock at the earth's >surface? :-) Given the figure you mention of 0.6 ppb (52 microseconds per day faster) this question asks be nullified, maybe 10 km/s velocity relative to earth? A good relative velocity to hunt a flock of wild space geese coming to roost on Earth, wearing accurate Rolexes ... But should the meteoroid transition to our gravity, the on-board Rolex might abandon its precision for a few spectacular minutes, and have an "error" of a couple of nanoseconds ;-) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list To: meteorite-list Sent: Mon, Jul 18, 2016 6:43 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites It's not a bad idea, Pete, but unfortunately the time dilation is really minimal unless you get up to a substantial fraction of the speed of light. For instance, even at solar system escape velocity at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec), a meteoroid's clock would be running at about 10 parts per billion slower than that of a stationary rock. (Additional note: due to general relativity, a clock on a meteoroid would be running about 0.6 parts per billion *faster* than a clock at the earth's surface, but that is more than made up for by the time dilation due to special relativity.) Extra-credit question for the mathematically inclined: at what velocity relative to the earth would a meteoroid have to travel to have its clock stay in sync with a clock at the earth's surface? :-) --Rob -Original Message- From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Pete Shugar via Meteorite-list Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 3:12 PM To: The List Subject: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites greetings to all, my background is in electronics. everything deals with either C or C2. Einstein states that nothing goes faster than the speed of light and that as you approach the speed of light, things get older slower. So this meteorite in it's travels is going at a rate that is a subtantual percentage of the speed of light. Has anyone taken this into consideration when placing an age on the meteorite? Just a thought to tickle the old brain cells!! Pete Shugar __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Archie Contributed by: John Divelbiss http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp?DD=07/21/2016 __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
