Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Excellent point, Alan. This is also the reason we should not expect to find 
Venusian meteorites on our planet. It’s not so much the dynamics of material 
transfer to Earth from the deeper solar gravity well of Venus – it’s the 
absurdly thick atmosphere those impactites would have to pass through to go 
into a heliocentric, earth-crossing orbit.  --Rob

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: ALAN RUBIN via Meteorite-list
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2023 4:57 PM
To: Mark Hammergren
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Michael Farmer
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial meteorite

I discussed the possibility of terrestrial meteorites in Rubin (2015),
Icarus 257, 221-229. Neglecting the effects of the Earth's atmosphere,
it would take five times as much energy to launch a basaltic rock off
the Earth as it would to launch the same mass rock off Mars. Except
for Black Beauty, essentially every shergottite has been severely
shocked during launch off Mars, transforming the crystalline
plagioclase into maskelynite. (A few shergottites with no maskelynite
were shocked-heated even more strongly.) A terrestrial basalt launched
off Earth would be heavily shocked or completely impact melted. This
does not seem to be the case for NWA 13188. I don't think it is
terrestrial.

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 4:36 PM Mark Hammergren via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
>
> Thirty years ago, my thesis advisor, Don Brownlee, and I talked about 
> potential terrestrial meteorites and how their "asteroids" might be 
> identified among the population of near-Earth objects. Unfortunately for me 
> at the time, we decided that any strong identification would rely on details 
> of silicate chemistry that are tough to measure through ground-based remote 
> sensing. But we were certain that such bodies must exist.
>
> On the same subject, the moon will be a great place to search for terrestrial 
> meteorites, and may prove to be the best place to investigate the conditions 
> of early Earth. Heck, we might even find fossils.
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 12:27 PM Bob King via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Go to 
>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361365963_Northwest_Africa_13188_A_meteorite_from_the_Earth
>> At the top click on the blue bar that says download full text pdf. I just 
>> did it and no fee is required.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 9:12 AM Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Unfortunately paywall
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023, 2:05 AM, Albert Jambon via Meteorite-list 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> There was a presentation at the Goldschmidt Conference in Lyon this week. 
>>> Here is a link
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2381928-meteorite-left-earth-then-landed-back-down-after-round-trip-to-space/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Albert JAMBON
>>>
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>
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-- 
Alan Rubin
Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics
Department of Earth, Planetary, and Space Sciences
University of California
3845 Slichter Hall
603 Charles Young Dr. E
Los Angeles, CA  90095-1567
USA

office phone: 310-825-3202
fax: 310-206-3051
e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu
website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] CNEOS1 2014-01-08 hunt in P.N.G. Harvard physicist Avi Loeb is organizing a $1.5 million expedition

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

I’m with you, Mike – what the hell?! This is the stuff of tabloids. If people 
want to find an underwater meteorite, they can search the shore of Lake Ontario 
for the (much larger than sand) fragments of asteroid 2022 WJ1 that impacted 
there November last year, or the western edge of Lake Michigan for the bolide 
that broke up over it 6 years ago on Feb. 6th, 2017, appearing on 5 separate 
Doppler radars. In either case, the water is far, far shallower and the 
prospects better for success than finding anything (natural or artificial) over 
a mile underwater.  --Rob

From: Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2023 3:33 PM
To: drtanuki; Meteorite-list
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] CNEOS1 2014-01-08 hunt in P.N.G. Harvardphysicist 
Avi Loeb is organizing a $1.5 million expedition

Good grief. What nonsense. A mile deep. In the pacific  ocean. Particles the 
size of rice. Years under the water…… what a scam 


Sent from Smallbiz Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, March 23, 2023, 8:04 AM, drtanuki via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:
https://dnyuz.com/2023/03/23/a-harvard-physicist-is-racing-to-prove-this-meteorite-is-an-alien-probe/

A Harvard Physicist Is Racing to Prove This Meteorite Is an Alien Probe
March 23, 2023

The world’s top alien hunter is about to embark on his most ambitious—and 
potentially history-making—mission yet. Harvard physicist Avi Loeb is 
organizing a $1.5-million expedition to Papua New Guinea to search for 
fragments of a very strange meteorite that impacted just off the coast of the 
Pacific nation in 2014.

There’s compelling evidence that the half-meter-wide meteorite, called CNEOS1 
2014-01-08, traveled from outside our solar system. And that it’s made of 
extremely hard rock or metal—a material that’s hard and tough enough to prove 
the meteorite isn’t a meteorite at all. Maybe it’s an alien probe.

It’s a long-shot effort. After years of work, Loeb and his team have, with a 
big assist from the U.S. military, narrowed down CNEOS1 2014-01-08’s likely 
impact zone to a square kilometer of the ocean floor, nearly two kilometers 
underwater. But the fragments themselves are probably just a few millimeters in 
size. It’s worse than looking for a needle in a haystack. Loeb is basically 
preparing to look for big sand in a square-kilometer patch of small sand. 
more
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Re: [meteorite-list] Small, earth-impacting asteroid/meteoroid videos now showing up online

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Hi John – yes, being a member of the asteroid monitoring community has its 
advantages as far as timely communication about such events. But the Minor 
Planet Electronic Circulars are out there for anyone to read. Here was the MPEC 
for this impactor:

https://minorplanetcenter.net/mpec/K23/K23CA3.html

Using the astrometry in that MPEC, anyone familiar with Bill Gray’s Find_Orb 
software can reconstruct the asteroid’s trajectory with high precision.
As in the case with Almahata Sitta, meteorites will certainly be recovered from 
this fall – thankfully from a country much easier to get to!  --Rob

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: John Lutzon
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 1:12 PM
To: Rob Matson
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Small, earth-impacting asteroid/meteoroid videos 
now showing up online

 
  Ah, to have such knowledge & contacts. Thanks Everyone for keeping us in 
the loop.
  JL
.---  .-..  ---  ..-  -
- Original Message - 
From: Rob Matson via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Small, earth-impacting asteroid/meteoroid videos 
now showing up online

Flight direction was azimuth 102, entry angle about 41 degrees from vertical, 
slow entry velocity (~14 km/sec). There are certainly meteorites on the ground 
as this was a 1-1.5 meter, non-cometary body. The altitude was 42 km when it 
crossed the Normandy coastline, and the terminal burst had not yet occurred. 
I’ve already done dark flight modeling of this fall using radiosonde data from 
Herstmonceaux (balloon launched three hours before the fall from about 60 miles 
to the north in the southern UK).   --Rob

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 7:55 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Small,earth-impacting asteroid/meteoroid videos 
now showing up online

It was heading generally eastward over the Channel and was still burning 
when it crossed the French shoreline. It is likely to have dropped 
meteorites on land.

Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

On 2/14/2023 3:29 AM, Graham Ensor via Meteorite-list wrote:
> It was heading from France and terminated it seems just as it reached the
> channel so likely everything is in the sea if it did drop anything. Not
> seen any predictions that it made landfall in France or the UK. So close
> and yet so far.
> 
> Graham
> 
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 11:27 PM Darryl Pitt via Meteorite-list <
> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> Nice!   :-)
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2023, at 11:10 PM, Matson, Rob D. [US-US] via Meteorite-list <
>> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
>>
>> A small (~1-meter) asteroid that astronomers have been tracking for
>> several hours earlier today crossed over the English Channel one hour ago
>> (3:00 UT 13 February) and broke up over the coast of Normandy. Many videos
>> of it are already appearing on the web. Here’s one taken from Brighton, UK
>> (south coast of England) looking across the channel toward France:
>>
>> https://twitter.com/KadeFlowers/status/1624967147708420103
>>
>> Should be numerous meteorites on the ground – the meteoroid was at about
>> 40-km altitude at the point it crossed the French coastline north of
>> Saint-Martin-aux-Buneaux, so nearly all of it should be over land.  --Rob
>> __
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>>
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> 
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Small, earth-impacting asteroid/meteoroid videos now showing up online

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Flight direction was azimuth 102, entry angle about 41 degrees from vertical, 
slow entry velocity (~14 km/sec). There are certainly meteorites on the ground 
as this was a 1-1.5 meter, non-cometary body. The altitude was 42 km when it 
crossed the Normandy coastline, and the terminal burst had not yet occurred. 
I’ve already done dark flight modeling of this fall using radiosonde data from 
Herstmonceaux (balloon launched three hours before the fall from about 60 miles 
to the north in the southern UK).   --Rob

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 7:55 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Small,earth-impacting asteroid/meteoroid videos 
now showing up online

It was heading generally eastward over the Channel and was still burning 
when it crossed the French shoreline. It is likely to have dropped 
meteorites on land.

Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

On 2/14/2023 3:29 AM, Graham Ensor via Meteorite-list wrote:
> It was heading from France and terminated it seems just as it reached the
> channel so likely everything is in the sea if it did drop anything. Not
> seen any predictions that it made landfall in France or the UK. So close
> and yet so far.
> 
> Graham
> 
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 11:27 PM Darryl Pitt via Meteorite-list <
> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> Nice!   :-)
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2023, at 11:10 PM, Matson, Rob D. [US-US] via Meteorite-list <
>> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
>>
>> A small (~1-meter) asteroid that astronomers have been tracking for
>> several hours earlier today crossed over the English Channel one hour ago
>> (3:00 UT 13 February) and broke up over the coast of Normandy. Many videos
>> of it are already appearing on the web. Here’s one taken from Brighton, UK
>> (south coast of England) looking across the channel toward France:
>>
>> https://twitter.com/KadeFlowers/status/1624967147708420103
>>
>> Should be numerous meteorites on the ground – the meteoroid was at about
>> 40-km altitude at the point it crossed the French coastline north of
>> Saint-Martin-aux-Buneaux, so nearly all of it should be over land.  --Rob
>> __
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>> __
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>> https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> 
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Nevada Bolide

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

 Yeah, home meth lab was my first guess when I heard the story, lol.  --Rob

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list
Sent: Monday, November 7, 2022 8:16 AM
To: mlbl...@cox.net; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nevada Bolide

It’s a scam. Was a fireball in Northern California. House burned. Not related 
to the meteor event. Just meth heads. 


Sent from Smallbiz Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, November 6, 2022, 2:47 AM, mlblood--- via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:
Hi All,

This evening a local San Diego news reported "a meteor" hit and burned a house
in Nevada. They did show a real bolide in the night sky - however, they claimed
it was traced to his house (Did not report WHO traced it to his house).

Anyone know anything about this?

Michael Blood

--
HISTORICAL AMERICAN METEORITE OF OVER 42 KG
Bonhams Natural History auction on Sep 21 offers 50+ lots of stellar planetary 
meteorite specimens, including a superb Canyon Diablo specimen. Browse the 
auction and register to bid online.

Link:  
https://www.bonhams.com/auction/27815/cabinet-of-curiosities-natural-history-entomology-and-minerals/?utm_source=meteroritecentral&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=nat-sep-22&utm_id=col-nat-sep-22
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--
HISTORICAL AMERICAN METEORITE OF OVER 42 KG
Bonhams Natural History auction on Sep 21 offers 50+ lots of stellar planetary 
meteorite specimens, including a superb Canyon Diablo specimen. Browse the 
auction and register to bid online.

Link:  
https://www.bonhams.com/auction/27815/cabinet-of-curiosities-natural-history-entomology-and-minerals/?utm_source=meteroritecentral&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=nat-sep-22&utm_id=col-nat-sep-22
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Re: [meteorite-list] Hunting Holbrook, Arizona 101 - video

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Very much enjoyed the Holbrook video, Ruben -- thank you for sharing it! Seems
like forever
since I've been there, but that red soil is still fresh in my mind. You and your
son had a nice
successful day of escaping the Phoenix heat, rescuing a dozen 100+ year-old
earth visitors
from another monsoon shower, and high-tailing it before you got stuck
yourselves. :-)  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2019 6:19 AM
To: metlist
Subject: [meteorite-list] Hunting Holbrook, Arizona 101 - video

Hi,

Here is a video that we filmed yesterday in Holbrook, Arizona.  It's a
very basic video for those of you that have never hunted Holbrook, or
maybe never hunted anywhere.

We had lots of fun, found 12 small meteorites and as you can see from
the last scene, we did finally get out of the heat.

https://www.mrmeteorite.net/my-meteorite-videos
or Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa2_FRzOO_U

-- 

Rock On!

Ruben Garcia
www.MrMeteorite.net
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[meteorite-list] Viñales Cuba fall

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Hi All -- the DoD data from the daytime Cuban fall from February 1st is now up
on JPL's website:

https://cneos.jpl.nasa.gov/fireballs/

Fall time: 18:17:10 UT (13:17:10 EST)
Coordinates: 22.5 N, 83.8 W, Alt. 23.7 km
Velocity: 16.3 km/sec
Impact energy: 1.4 kilotons (compare with Chelyabinsk 440 kilotons!)

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] Tucson show event dates

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Hi All -- haven't seen an announcement about 2017 Tucson dates, but based on 
past patterns
should I assume that the IMCA dinner will be held on Thursday, February 2nd, 
and if there's a
Birthday Bash it will be on Friday the 3rd?  --Rob


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[meteorite-list] Meteorite identification

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that most list members will find this 
hilarious:

 

http://xkcd.com/1723/

 

J  --Rob

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[meteorite-list] Meteorite identification

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that most list members will find this 
hilarious:

http://xkcd.com/1723/

:-)  --Rob

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[meteorite-list] More on meteorite temperature

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Hi All,

Posted this from work over 7 hours ago but seems not to have worked, so
resending from
home...--Rob

- - - -

Hi All,

Playing Devil's Advocate, I decided to try coming up with a scenario that
attempts to maximize the
thermal equilibrium temperature of a chondritic meteoroid just prior to
encountering the earth's
atmosphere. The typical formula for computing the thermal equilibrium
temperature for an
object without an atmosphere is:
 
Te = [S0 * (1-A) / (4*epsilon*sigma)] ^ (1/4)
 
where the body is assumed to be spherical (the source of the 4 in the
denominator), S0 is the
solar constant (mean value 1361 W/m^2), A is the bolometric Bond albedo, epsilon
is the
meteoroid's emissivity, and sigma is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant (5.670 x
10^-8 W/m^2-K^-4).
A, in turn, can be estimated from the following equation:
 
A ~= q * pv
 
where q is the phase integral and pv is the visible albedo. Using Bowell's H, G
magnitude system,
we can compute q from:
 
q = 0.290 + .684*G
 
The commonly used value for the slope parameter, G, is 0.15, in which case:
 
q = 0.393
A = 0.393 * pv
 
For very dark asteroids (e.g. Trojan asteroids, Hildas, Cybeles), the albedo can
be 5% or lower.
However, most NEOs have semi-major axes less than 3 a.u. and albedos averaging
closer
to 20%.
 
The final missing value is the emissivity. For regolith, a range of 0.9-0.95 is
often mentioned.
However, emissivity and albedo work hand-in-hand (epsilon + pv ~= 1). So if
we're going
to choose an emissivity of 0.9, we should set the albedo, pv, to 10%.
 
So what is a typical equilibrium temperature for a spherical NEO with 10%
albedo, 0.9
emissivity, 1 a.u. from the sun?
 
A = .393*10% = .0393
 
Te = [1361 * (1-.0393) / (4*0.9*5.67 x 10^-8)]^0.25 = 282.9 K or about 49.6 F
 
So, cool, but certainly not freezing. How can we get a warmer answer?  One way
is to pick the
time of year when the earth is closest to the sun (early January) and the solar
constant is
higher:  about 1414 W/m^2.  This raises the temperature in the above example to
285.6 K,
or 54.4 F. Still not warm, but warmer. Lowering the emissivity will help, too.
Let the albedo
increase to 20%, and set the emissivity to 0.8. With the perihelion solar
constant, the
equilibrium temperature is now up to 291.1 K (64.3 F). Lowering the emissivity
further
is probably not realistic for most earth-crossing asteroids, so we're at the
limit of what
we can achieve via S0 and emissivity.
 
However, there *is* a way to get a big increase in the equilibrium temperature
which
I'll cover in the next installment.  --Rob


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Re: [meteorite-list] Hot vs. Cold again...

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Hi Elton,

> Any body arriving from space is at least -60�c and closer to -120�c to -180�c 
> based on
> some black body studies of asteroids-- IIRC

The temperature for a typical earth-crossing asteroid with a chondritic 
composition is
actually likely to be warmer than this -- perhaps -20 C. Depends on how "black" 
the
original meteoroid was. Equilibrium temperatures for irons are quite a bit 
warmer.

> The radiative cooling during dark flight is probably calculable and a missing 
> factor in
> estimating the state of heat content upon landing.

Not just a missing factor -- perhaps the dominant factor. 3-5 seconds of 
ablation is nothing
compared to 2-8 minutes of freefall through atmospheric temperatures as low as
-70 C. Basically you have a frozen, baked Alaska situation:  pre-atmosphere, a 
cold body
through and through. Then (in the case of non-irons), you expose this 
low-thermal-
conductivity mass to a brief blast of extreme heat that boils off the exterior 
almost as
fast as the heat can be conducted to the cold interior. Bur almost as soon as 
it starts, it's
over. You have a thin crust of hot material surrounding the still ice-cold 
interior. And for
the final act, you refreeze the exterior for a time period 20 to 100 times 
longer than
the ablative phase. For stony meteorites, there just isn't enough time to raise 
the
bulk temperature of the body.

So I disagree with this statement:

"An immediately-recovered, newly-fallen silicate/stony meteorite is 
usually--but briefly
"hot/uncomfortably warm" to the touch. The rind is very hot but lacks much heat 
reservoir."

As long as there is an extended period of freefall through the atmosphere (a 
very
reasonable assumption for non-cratering events), atmospheric cooling will 
always win out
for a stony meteorite.  --Rob


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[meteorite-list] Geometry and velocity trump gravity

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Hi E.P.,

Doug's reply pretty much covers it, but I wanted to give you an example so
that you can see how your intuition is failing you on this problem. Let's take
the case of a slower-than-average asteroid closing velocity encounter of
20 km/sec. And let's say that in the absence of any gravitational attraction
from the earth or the Moon, the asteroid would come no closer than the
altitude of geosynchronous satellites -- 35786 km. (This is a rather close
encounter, I'm sure you'd agree. Any trajectory with a more distant
point of closest approach would obviously experience less trajectory
bending than this case.) If we "turn on" earth's gravity, how much will
the trajectory be diverted toward the earth's center? Without getting into
the calculus of actually solving the problem, let's make some simplifying
assumptions that are very ~generous~ in the amount of gravitational
acceleration we're going to apply.

The acceleration due to gravity at the height of geosync satellites is
around 0.224 m/sec^2. Let's assume that that amount of acceleration is
applied during the entire encounter, and that it is always directed
perpendicular to the asteroid's original velocity vector. Define the start
of the encounter as being when the earth is 45 degrees to the left
of the velocity vector (at range 59629 km -- the square root of 2 times
the distance to the earth's center). The midpoint is when the earth
is 90 degrees to the left of the velocity vector (point of minimum
range to the earth center), and the end is when the earth is 135 degrees
to the left of the velocity vector. To first order, the distance travelled
is 2*42164 km = 84328 km. How long would it take in the absence of
gravity?  84328 km / (20 km/sec) = 4216 seconds -- a little over 70 minutes.
Recall your basic distance equation under constant acceleration:
X = 1/2 * A * T^2. Here we've generously allowed A to be 0.224 m/sec^2
for the entire encounter (when in fact A at the start is only half that).
What does X work out to?

X = 0.5 * 0.224 * (4216)^2 = 1.99 million meters or 1990 km.

Compare that to the 35768 km altitude of the GEO belt, and you see
that the amount of diversion is rather small. So the take-away from
all this is that the outcome is dominated by simple geometry. Yes,
very close encounters with the earth will bend a trajectory -- perhaps
quite significantly, but post-encounter the new trajectory is just as
likely to be diverted toward the Moon as away from it.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of E.P. Grondine via Meteorite-list
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 9:11 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?

Hi Rob, Doug - 

(Glad to hear that you're doing okay, Doug)  

What both of you need to do is to take the perspective of a potential impactor
passing through the inner solar system,
as seen in the first few seconds of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDrBIKOR01c

The basic geometry of the problem is set out here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTDcfI2dabk

If it makes it easier,
think of the Earth-Moon system as a pair of girls at a darkly lit party, 
and yourself as a young man.
(A variant of the famous mathematical problem of the drunk's walk at the frat
party.)
While you may be attracted to the "prettier" (in terms of gravity/area) Moon,
you are far more likely to run into her much larger "wingman", the Earth.
Sorry, but that is just the way it is.

At first, you're getting a warm fuzzy feeling (gravity) from the combined
Earth/Moon system.
That warm fuzzy feeling varies by the cubes of the radius of each of the two
bodies, 
and is located somewhere amongst them.

On your approach to the Earth/Moon system, you see your landing area (for only
part of the month, see second video) 
in terms of area, which varies by the square of the radius. 
But of course gravity also varies by distance, 
so as you get close to theses two 
you're getting far more of that warm fuzzy feeling from the Earth,rather than
the Moon. 
You head that way. 

You can use any computer language you prefer to model this system, 
and run it on any machine you like.
But as a check on your computer model, you have to rely on the data.
In this case, compare the data on smaller impactors from the Moon, 
(Apollo seismic and optical astronomy)
with the data from the reconnaissance systems which have been operating 
on the Earth since the 1950's, 
and "alarming" the "stuff" out of those looking at the data from them.

If there is a difference between your model's results and the data, then your
model is defective.
 
(An entertaining video on phonetic loading,
the diameters of lunar craters,
typing monkeys, and other natural phenomena:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCn8zs912OE)

good hunting, 
E.P.

PS - Will NEOcam make meteorite hunting far easier?
Will the increased supply drive down prices even further? 

__

[meteorite-list] Mount Blanco, TX fall approved by NomComm

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Hi All,

 

Just noticed that the Mount Blanco (aka Crosbyton, TX) meteorite fall has been

approved by the NomComm:

 


 
&sfor=names&ants=&falls=yes&valids=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=United+States&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&rect=&phot=&snew=0&pnt=Normal%20table&code=63210>

 

--Rob

 

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[meteorite-list] Invented words

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Ugh. It joins the ranks of "irregardless". Now that social media is a permanent
fixture,
it probably only takes a handful of modestly well-connected people to bastardize
an
existing word into a needless new synonym... I'm becoming a grumpier old man
with
each passing year, I guess!  --R

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of Sterling K. Webb via Meteorite-list
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 10:33 PM
To: 'Matson, Rob D.'; pmodre...@aol.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Oriented vs Orientated

Rob, 

You bet "desalinization" would 
become one [a word], but the 
world has beaten you to it:

desalinization. (n.d.). The 
American HeritageR New 
Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, 
Third Edition. Retrieved May 09, 
2016 from Dictionary.com: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/desalinization

It's probably too late to stamp
it out...

Sterling
-
-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 8:35 PM
To: pmodre...@aol.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Oriented vs Orientated

A related faux pas: desalinization. No such word, but I bet it will become
one so as not to embarrass the media members who like to use it. ;-). --Rob

From: Meteorite-list [meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] on behalf
of Pete Modreski via Meteorite-list [meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com]
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 10:46 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Oriented vs Orientated

My other favorite word that gets used by non-geologists: metamorphosized .
(Do you Brits use that one, by chance?)  I think it fits the rhythym better
in some songs and poems.

Cheers, Pete


-Original Message-
From: howardites via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Mon, May 9, 2016 11:16 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Oriented vs Orientated

It certainly got everyone thinking ;-)


If you would like? for the sake of keeping the peace and despite the fact us
Brits widely use orientated I will use oriented.

Just to let you know in advance I use some really bizarre words and if it's
in the English dictionary (UK version) I will use it!

I won't shun you for your choice of words so please don't shun me :-) we are
all different.

Best wishes from across the pond

Xxx




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[meteorite-list] Osceola searches

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Hi Mike -- best of luck on your next trip out there. For everyone to appreciate
just how hard the searching is there, it would be great if those that have been
could provide an estimate of how many hours they spent. Mexico Doug put in
a LOT of time out there. Obviously so did Larry, Mike, Laura, Josh and Brendan.
Steve Arnold was there at least 2 or 3 days but unfortunately w/o a space rock
for his troubles.

--Rob

-Original Message-
From: Michael Gilmer [mailto:meteoritem...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2016 1:08 PM
To: Rob Matson
Cc: meteorite-list
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Osceola Meteorite is Official!

Hi Rob and List,

I can attest to the difficult terrain. I certainly picked a doozie for
my first meteorite hunt. Even though I have hiked much of Florida's
forests and backwoods, I usually avoid the swampy areas. I did not
have the luxury of avoiding swamp with this hunt. I brought my
hip-waders and managed to reach a few dry places that were surrounded
by water, but nothing was found.  I am heading back before the end of
April for one last college try before I hang it up.

Did Arkansas Steve find anything?

Best regards and Happy Huntings,

MikeG

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Re: [meteorite-list] Osceola Meteorite is Official!

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Congratulations to Mike, Larry, Laura, Josh and Brendan for their 
aggressiveness in
getting to the fall location quickly and their persistence in the face of very
unfavorable searching conditions (SWAMP!)  It is an impressive feat that 
anything
was found at all, even with the nice radar returns.

I have one correction: I'm pretty sure Larry was the second on the scene. Steve
Arnold drove all night from Arkansas to arrive (I believe) the morning after
the fall -- Monday, January 25.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On 
Behalf Of Michael Gilmer via Meteorite-list
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2016 11:00 AM
To: Meteorite List
Subject: [meteorite-list] Osceola Meteorite is Official!

Osceola meteorite is official, approved by NonCom and entered into the
Met Bull today - http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=63109

Osceola30�27.16�N, 82�27.25�W
Florida, USA
Confirmed fall: 2016 Jan 24
Classification: Ordinary chondrite (L6)

History: (Mike Hankey, Larry Atkins, Laura Atkins, Josh Adkins,
Brendan Fallon, Robert Matson, Marc Fries) On Sunday Morning 24
January at 10:27 EST (15:27 UTC) a large daytime fireball streaked
across the sky in northern Florida. Over 100 eyewitnesses reported the
event to the American Meteor Society (Event 2016-266), describing a
white sparkling head and plume of white smoke left behind. Fireball
researchers Marc Fries and Rob Matson, found the American Meteor
Society witness trajectory intersected with a group of radar returns
that appeared shortly after the fall. The radar returns were strong,
found at multiple altitudes and located on multiple stations: KJAX,
KVAX and KTHL. Larry Atkins was the first on the scene. Mike Hankey
arrived 5 days after the fall with Brendan Fallon and joined Larry and
Laura Atkins in the hunt. On the 6th day, Mike Hankey found the first
stone at 8.5 g on the eastern edge of the primary radar return. Within
2 hours Larry Atkins found the second stone (18.5 g) directly under
the radar. The next day, two more stones were found: a 5.5 g stone by
Laura Atkins and a 48.5 g stone by Mike Hankey. Six days later over 2
miles away from the first find, an 839 g mass was found by Josh Adkins
and Brendan Fallon. A week after that, Larry Atkins found the last
stone, weighing 75.5 g. In total 6 stones were found over a three week
hunting period for a total weight of 990.5 g.

Physical characteristics: Thin, well formed shiny fusion crust covers
the exterior of four of the stones, while two of them, the 43 g and
the 839 g are matte black. This is likely due to submersion in wet
sand and/or water prior to recovery. Some small rust spots are evident
on some of the stones as well. Small regmaglypts are present on the 43
g and the 839 g stones, and the remaining stones are irregularly
shaped with little to no orientation. Some chondrules are visible
through the crust. The interior of the meteorites are slightly
darkened due to shock. Shock veins are present, some of which are
black while others are filled with metal, appearing as long "strings"
up to 3 mm long. Though most of the chondrules have been altered and
are not well defined, some rare, large chondrules up to 0.8 mm are
present.

Petrography: Plagioclase grains are up to 100 �m in size, consistent
with type 6. No maskelynite was found. There are numerous
chromite-plagioclase assemblages, consistent with moderately strong
shock. Chromite grains are fractured. Troilite is polycrystalline.
Metallic copper occurs as 2-�m-thick bands at the metal-troilite
interface in an opaque assemblage. The chondrules are recrystallized
and poorly defined. The only discernible chondrules are large ones,
800-1000 �m across; these are BO and PO textural types.

Geochemistry: Olivine Fa23.7�0.3 (n=21), Orthopyroxene
Fs20.2�0.2Wo1.6�0.2 (n=14). Also present are small grains of diopside:
Fs7.4 Wo44.9 (n=1). Plagioclase has a mean composition of Ab71.7�1.6
Or8.8�2.5 (n=8); the low Na and high K values are a result of shock.

Specimens: 21.8 g at UCLA
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[meteorite-list] 2nd recovered U.S. fall of 2016

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

[Resending from a different account since the first attempt has not
shown up. Apologies if this turns out to be a repeat...]

Hi All,

Just want to report that the west Texas bolide that occurred one week
ago on the evening of 17 February 2016 is officially a fall: the second
successful radar-enabled recovery of 2016 (following Osceola, Florida)
as well as Texas' second Doppler-cued recovery (the first of course
being Ash Creek almost exactly seven years ago). Congratulations to
the persistent meteorite recovery team who walked the many miles to
make this another success story! --Rob


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Re: [meteorite-list] Very Bright Fireball Over Europe on Halloween Night

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

HI All,

Marco took the words out of my mouth. Getting tired of hearing that a green
meteor tells you anything about its composition. I know that it's natural for
people to think the most important thing they can report about a meteor
is its color, but I wish various broadcast media would do the public a service
and disabuse them of this notion. It would be far better if witnesses
could be trained to get in the habit of counting the duration accurately,
and noting the exact time of the meteor to the nearest minute. Seeing as
how almost everyone has a cell phone these days, and all cell phones have
accurate clocks, there really is no excuse to get the time wrong. Yet even
a casual browse of the AMS fireball site reveals that people clearly don't
think getting the time right is important. And even more obvious is that
most people have no business reporting anything about fireball starting
and ending bearings and elevation angles.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of Marco Langbroek via Meteorite-list
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 12:06 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Very Bright Fireball Over Europe on Halloween
Night

> A lot of folks say it looked green to them, which means it may have been
> metallic;


It is a perpetuated misunderstanding that meteor colours are primarily due to 
their composition. It's a science myth inspired by High School Bunsen burner 
experiments that appears hard to kill.

While composition in some cases does have some influence on the colour, it is 
actually the composition of the atmosphere that is usually dominant for our 
perception of meteor colours.

That certainly is true for green colours. Meteor spectra show that meteors 
usually are very strong at the "forbidden" Oxygen line at 5577 Angstrom (557.7 
nm). This line is due to atmospheric Oxygen, the same atmospheric Oxygen 
exitation line also responsible for the green colours of Aurora.

So green meteor colours are likely atmospheric in origin and say little about 
the meteoroids' composition.

- Marco

-
Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek
Dutch Meteor Society (DMS)

e-mail: d...@marcolangbroek.nl
http://www.marcolangbroek.nl

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Re: [meteorite-list] A Managua, Nicaragua meteorite?

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Hi Sterling,

Note the erroneous, yet predictable association with 2014 RC in these
reports. It's Chelyabinsk and 2012 DA14 all over again. Does sound a little
like Carancas Take 2, but near a city of over 1 million people -- no fireball
witnesses?  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of Sterling K. Webb via Meteorite-list
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 7:05 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Managua, Nicaragua meteorite?

Kevin, List,

It looks a great deal like the Carancas 
crater, although it's a little smaller, 
about 80% of its size. The test would be: 
are there meteorites scattered about?

Good photo (official Army photo) found 
here:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/rare-meteorite-impact-causes-blast-in-nicaraguas-cap
ital-managua-20140908-10dsqo.html

and
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/09/07/meteorite-strikes-nicaragua/152629
73/

and some film from Russia:
https://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&ar=1410130829

They are sweeping with metal detectors, 
but only on the well-worn pathway, not 
in the grass!

More photos here:
http://news.yahoo.com/meteorite-smashes-nicaraguan-capital-230034550.html;_ylt=A
wrSyCUf6AxUNwYAZ5fQtDMD


Sterling Webb
--
-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of Kevin Kichinka via Meteorite-list
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2014 5:47 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Managua, Nicaragua meteorite?

Team Meteorite:

There appears a photo of an alleged meteorite crater in the news just a few
moments ago.

It's being well-guarded by armed Sandinista's.

Does anyone beside Nica jefe Daniel Ortega think this looks like a met
crater?

http://www.ticotimes.net/2014/09/07/meteorite-smashes-into-nicaraguan-capita
l

Kevin Kichinka
Rio Oro, Santa Ana, Costa Rica
"The Art of Collecting Meteorites" (Amazon and Barnes and Noble eBook) "The
Global Meteorite Price Report - 2015" out in late December mars...@gmail.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] WWBT

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

I'm on it -- will let you know if anything shakes out on radar...  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 8:31 AM
To: J Sinclair
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WWBT

We'll have to wait for Mark Fries or Rob Matson to give us an X on the
map - we need a new fall in the US. Why should Northwest Africa get
all the fun?

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 AM, J Sinclair via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
> Possible meteorites on the ground. Lots of reports here in North
> Carolina. I'm also reading reports of a sonic boom and the "ground
> shaking" in Virginia.
> Great video from a dash cam.
>
> John
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Dennis Miller via Meteorite-list
>  wrote:
>>
>> http://m.nbc12.com/#!/newsDetail/26050632
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> __
>>
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> __
>
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia
http://www.MrMeteorite.com
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[meteorite-list] 2014 St. Thomas meteor

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Hi Mike/Mike/All,

I wondered if I had missed something. As far as I knew, nothing had been found
(yet)
for the St. Thomas fall east of Toronto. The fall location is pretty well
constrained by
video (and possibly radar as well), so if anything survived to the ground I
expect
something will eventually be found.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 6:07 PM
To: Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Cc: Meteorite List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Happy Birthday to Comayagua (Recent Falls)

Why do you list the Canada thing, nothing was found that O ever heard about.
Michael Farmer

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 3, 2014, at 5:51 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks"
 wrote:
> 
> That's a shame.  It's one of those meteorites that is destined just be
> an obscure footnote.  I wonder if any of it will ever surface, and if
> so, the chain of provenance will be murky.
> 
> For those that are interested, here are the known and/or official
> falls since 2012 :
> 
> 2014 -
> 
> Feb 17, 2014 - "Santa Fe" (unofficial) (unknown type) : Argentina
> Feb 28, 2014 - "Rift Valley" (unofficial) (ordinary chondrite?) : Kenya
(Hammer)
> Mar 09, 2014 - "Jinju" (unofficial) (ordinary chondrite?) : South Korea
> Mar 18, 2014 - "St. Thomas" (unofficial) : (unknown type) : Canada
> 
> 2013 -
> 
> Jan 15, 2013 - "Planeta Rica" (unofficial) (ordinary chondrite?) : Colombia
> Feb 15, 2013 - Chelyabinsk - (LL5 chondrite) : Russia (Hammer)
> Apr 19, 2013 - "Wolcott" (unofficial) (ordinary chondrite?) :
> Connecticut USA (Hammer)
> Apr 23, 2013 - Braunschweig (L6 chondrite) : Germany (Hammer)
> May 09, 2013 - "Oshika" (unofficial) (ordinary chondrite?) : Namibia
> Jun 15, 2013 - "Yuncheng-Shanxi" (unofficial) (ordinary chondrite?) : China
> Sep 23, 2013 - "Vicencia" (unofficial) (ordinary chondrite?) : Brazil
> 
> 2012 -
> 
> Feb 11, 2012 - Xining (L5 chondrite) : China
> Mar 01, 2012 - "Oslo" (unofficial) (ordinary chondrite?) : Norway (Hammer)
> Apr 22, 2012 - Sutter's Mill (CM - Regolith Breccia) : California USA (Hammer)
> May 04, 2012 - Ladkee (H6 chondrite) : Pakistan
> May 22, 2012 - Katol (L6 chondrite) : India (Hammer)
> Jun 03, 2012 - "Comayagua" (unofficial) (ordinary chondrite?) :
> Honduras (Hammer)
> Jul 08, 2012 - "Jalangi" (unofficial) (ordinary chondrite?) : India
> Aug 22, 2012 - Battle Mountain (L6 chondrite) : Nevada USA
> Oct 12, 2012 - "Beni Yacoub" (unofficial) (ordinary chondrite?) : Morocco
> Oct 17, 2012 - Novato (L6 chondrite) : California USA (Hammer)
> Oct 30, 2012 - "Addison" (unofficial) (ordinary chondrite?) : Alabama USA
> Dec 16, 2012 - Mreira (L6 chondrite) : Mauritania (fall classified as a find)
> 
> All falls since 2000 : http://www.galactic-stone.com/pages/falls
> 
> Best regards and Happy Huntings,
> 
> MikeG
> 
> -- 
> -
> Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
> Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
> Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
> -
> 
> 
>> On 6/3/14, Michael Farmer  wrote:
>> Nothing new other than the stone has vanished. Supposedly sold for $80,000
>> to the local university. Anyone who has been to Honduras would know that
>> could never happen.
>> Sad loss for a stone which penetrated a roof and bed while a man was laying
>> in it watching TV! He came a few mm from being one of the most famous people
>> in the world as a meteorite casualty.
>> 
>> 
>> Michael Farmer
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Jun 3, 2014, at 2:46 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Listees,
>>> 
>>> Today is the 2nd anniversary of the Comayagua meteorite fall in
>>> Honduras - June 03, 2012.
>>> 
>>> Any news about that fall or recoveries to mention?
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> MikeG
>>> 
>>> --
>>> -
>>> Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>> Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
>>> Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
>>> -
>>> __
>>> 
>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Colin Pillinger

[Rob Matson via Meteorite-list]

Hi Kevin,

I watched the video yesterday and wholeheartedly concur with you. Very
interesting talk by an engaging boffin, and a lot of the information was
new to me. I'm very sorry to read of the loss of such an excellent
meteorite ambassador at a young age.

One correction: Prof. Pillinger didn't say the Nakhla dog story was apocalyptic
--
he said apocryphal. Just a little bit of a difference there!  ;-)  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of Kevin Kichinka via Meteorite-list
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2014 9:23 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Colin Pillinger

Team Meteorite:

The 'Michael Faraday Prize Lecture' video linked here yesterday in a
list member's heartfelt obituary for the late Professor Colin
Pillinger earns a 'two thumbs up' from this reviewer.

Professor Pillinger offers insights into the falls of Ensisheim,
Sienna, Wold Cottage and Chassigny full of content I have never known,
and I consider myself somewhat of a met history buff. Did you know
that 'Wold Cottage' was a mansion? That the owner's sense of humor was
exposed when he named his black dog, 'Snowball'?

The photos and drawings used to illustrate Pillinger's stories were
also unknown to me, and are exquisite. I wish for copies to hang over
the fireplace.

And speaking of dogs, Professor Pillinger calls the Nakhla dog story
apocalyptic. And I'm here to tell you well, you know how I feel
about that :>)

A discussion of ALH84001 and EETA79001 and their revealed carbonates
led him to state, "Life on Mars could be contemporary."

But here's some words to consider, as we all soon enough will be
'falling stars'...

"All you that do behold my stone,
O, think how swiftly I was gone.
Death doth not always warning give,
Therefore be careful how you live."

Watch the celebration of a man's life given to meteoritics. See it here.

https://royalsociety.org/events/2012/stones-from-the-sky/

Kevin Kichinka
Rio Oro, Santa Ana, Costa Rica
"The Art of Collecting Meteorites" on Amazon and Barnes and Noble
"The Global Meteorite Price Report - 2015" available December, 2014.
mars...@gmail.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] FOUND! : First North American Lunar Achondrite!

[Rob Matson]

Hi Mike,

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that your new discovery will be
unusually high in copper.  ;-)  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic Stone
& Ironworks
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 9:29 AM
To: Meteorite List
Subject: [meteorite-list] FOUND! : First North American Lunar Achondrite!

I am thrilled to announce the discovery of the very first lunar
meteorite ever found in North America!   It was found under the pier,
near the surf-line, at a central Florida beach.  I am not revealing
the exact location at this time because I want to continue hunting the
strewnfield for additional specimens.  The specimen that I found is
surprisingly-fresh, and it has a very hard crust with the most unusual
markings I have ever seen.

USA Lunar #001 :
http://s268.photobucket.com/user/Meteoritethrower/media/beach-meteorite.jpg.html

More news later as subsequent recoveries are announcedThis
strewnfield promises to be particularly rich and will require
extensive searching...and sunblock...and beer

Best regards,

MikeG

-- 
-
Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
-
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Re: [meteorite-list] Ontario Fall Area Calculation 18MAR2014 Event

[Rob Matson]

Hi Mike/All,

With 9 cameras recording this fall, the trajectory is known extremely well.
Unfortunately, the final ablated mass(es) are likely to be small, perhaps
totaling only a couple hundred grams. There ~are~ some possible radar
returns for the fall, though, so we might get lucky.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Farmer
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 3:57 PM
To: Rob Wesel
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Jim Wooddell
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ontario Fall Area Calculation 18MAR2014 Event

I am pretty sure this one will be found and I certainly think there are some
nice stones on the ground. Location is perfect for hunting, just farms.
Grimsby all over again, and Rob and I both found great stones there. I am a tad
busy to head up there though:)
Michael Farmer


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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteor Video in England 15/16FEB2014 Substitution/Hoax??? Such videos becoming more a problem.

[Rob Matson]

Hi Dirk,

Definitely Chelyabinsk. I think all that someone did was mirror image the video
so that
the driver's side of the cars would "appear" to be on the right.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of drtanuki
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 11:06 PM
To: meteorite-list
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Video in England 15/16FEB2014
Substitution/Hoax??? Such videos becoming more a problem.

Hello List,
During my absence there was a video that was purported to be taken in the UK on
15/16FEB2014. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQipGW5O2Tk  

 The video appears to me to have been of Chelyabinsk as geometry and behavior of
the fireball are the same and the car license plates appear to be Russian..  I
have never seen this clip before so can anyone verify.  Anyways this is likely a
video of Chelyabinsk taken in a taxi lot somewhere in Russia. I am dubious of
the supposed UK video. Nevertheless, this is a good video of a real event.

Hoax/substitution/faked videos are becoming more and more common.  Please help
me and others by noting faked videos and if you spot something that appears so,
please let me know offlist.  Thank you.

It would be fantastic if someone would help me make a catalog of real videos.
Thanks!

Dirk Ross...Tokyo
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[meteorite-list] SoCal Fireball - 19:50 PST 06 November 2013

[Rob Matson]

Resending... message didn't post when I sent it ~2 hours ago:

Hi All,

Observed a very bright (mag -12) fireball on my drive home this
evening at 7:50 pm PST (3:50 UT 07 November 2013). Starting
direction was to my east from latitude 33.6879 N, -117.9144 W,
at an elevation of about 25 degrees, and terminus was perhaps
10-15 degrees south of east (azimuth 100-105) at about 10-degree
elevation. Duration was around 3 seconds, and there were multiple
flashes and fragmentation.

Posted my obs to the AMS website a few minutes ago and see that
there are dozens of others who have already done so. My time
should be very accurate as I checked my watch within a few
seconds of the end of the fireball. Call it 7:50:00 pm +/- 30
seconds. This should be easy to find on all-sky cameras, and
if anything survived to the ground it is definitely over land.
I'd guess somewhere east of I-15 and south of I-10.

--Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] WANTED: small unclassified type 3's

[Rob Matson]

Hi William,

> Michael, No need to get all anal about the verbage, this ain't a Supreme Court
hearing.
> I guess I could have inserted the word "possible", maybe even used the word
"potential",
> but thankfully there's reasonable people who've displayed the capability of
understanding
> what I was getting at without the use of crystal clear lawyer speak such as
what's written
> in a software User Agreement. Go ahead and critique every line and word that I
wrote,
> I'll be the first to agree that it's probably wrought with problems, but I'm
not going to
> rewrite it, nor am I going to take draft's of future documents to the english
department
> of the nearest college for correction before posting.

You're being overly reactionary in your reply to Michael. He raised a perfectly
valid
point: there is absolutely no way you can determine with confidence that an
uncut
meteorite (especially from NWA) is unequilibrated (type-3).

> By the way, I can tell the difference between a Murchison and NWA 2086, and
would
>  you beleive I can do so without the use of analysis.

That is a completely different matter.

> Similarly, there just so happens to be the existence of some stones which can
be
> determined to be type 3 without the use of analysis ...

No -- not "similarly." William, you need to be disabused of this notion, unless
your
"some stones" is extremely restrictive.

> ... so you mean to tell me that you'd have trouble being able to tell if a
stone
> such as Begga was a type 3 or not without the use of analysis?

YES, ABSOLUTELY, if that stone is uncut. No meteoriticist would ever claim an
uncut stone was unequilibrated without seeing a thin section.

Cheers,
Rob


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Re: [meteorite-list] Novato update

[Rob Matson]

Hi Jason,

A few remarks on your recent email:

> With regards to Novato: Without Dr. Jenniskens' efforts (published
> fireball trajectory estimates and his description of what to look for),
> Novato #1 would not have been recognized, and we do not know
> whether or not any of the subsequent finds would have been made.

Whether Petrus had published a trajectory or not, a trajectory *was*
provided by me, just as I did for Sutter's Mill, Chelyabinsk, Mifflin and
quite a few other falls over the last decade. So in the case of Novato,
there was redundancy. Also, if not for the second find at Novato by
a private hunter, the first might very well have gone unrecognized
as a meteorite. Don't forget that Dr. Jenniskens initially misidentified
it as being terrestrial.

> Instead, thanks to the newspaper articles about the fireball (with
> information from Dr. Jenniskens), Novato #1 was recovered.

I agree that what Petrus should be most commended for is generating
excellent PR in the Bay Area which no doubt contributed to that
initial house-hitter being suspected by the homeowner as a
meteorite candidate.

> Once we had that data point, we knew where to look.

People knew where to look, with or without that data point -- at
least to within a couple miles crosstrack.

> It also gave us greater incentive to look in general.

There's no denying that there is always nagging uncertainty prior to
making that first find. That first find is always a game-changer.

> Stanfield will be another case of a poorly documented fall unless the
> coordinates are eventually made 'public' on Galactic Analytics.

There seems to be a bit of animosity directed toward the Stanfield
fall, or at least it has become a bit of a whipping boy. I don't recall
seeing similar negative remarks being made about Ash Creek or
Whetstone Mountains or Grimsby or Buzzard Coulee or dare-I-say
Chelyabinsk. Why pick on Stanfield?

> I'm not saying there are rules that must be adhered to or anything
> like that, but the way things are generally being done is unscientific.
> If data is being lost, it's a shame.

No data is being lost, any more than data at any of the other falls
I mentioned has been lost.

Cheers,
Rob


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Re: [meteorite-list] Million's of Dollars of Tunguska Meteorites may be located, just like Chelyabinsk's Meteorites: OUTSIDE of, NOT INSIDE, the Blast Zone.

[Rob Matson]

Hi Steve,

> Robert Beauford and I were talking about Chelyabinsk shortly after the
> fall and he asked how many Chelyabinsk meteorites were being found
> in the city of Chelyabinsk, where all the windows had been blasted out?
> I told him that, as I understood it, the strewnfield was farther "down
> stream" because inertia carried the rocks further beyond the blast,
> like what almost always happens with fireballs.

The real reason nothing will be found in the city of Chelyabinsk itself
is that the meteoroid did not pass over the city. The closest point to
Chelyabinsk under the fireball path was 35 km to the south-southeast.
Even Korkino was north of the fireball's path. The main burst was
about 26 km above the city of Pervomayskiy, but prevailing winds
were to the southeast, so the closest meteorites would have fallen
south of that city.

> We later talked about how the Tunguska event of June 30, 1908,
> was bigger than Chelyabinsk it seemed, but probably not as big as
> the 101 crater forming event of Sikhote Alin, Russia of Feb. 12,
> 1947. Certainly, Tunguska was not as big as what caused the
> near-mile-wide Barringer Crater in Arizona. All of a sudden, it
> hit Robert..."Maybe there really should be Tunguska meteorites,
> but not where everyone has been looking for the last 105 years!"
> ... So why would there be Tunguska meteorites amongst the
> fallen trees at the Tunguska blast zone?

I agree that if meteorites made it to the ground, you would not
expect them to be concentrated at the epicenter of the terminal
burst (presumably the center of the fallen tree zone). But they
would almost certainly be within it. The Tunguska terminal burst
was at rather low altitude (likely 10 km or lower), while the
radius of the zone of devastation is something like 25 km. So
unless Tunguska's entry angle was very shallow and/or upper
atmospheric winds were extremely high, it would be difficult
for meteorites to travel 25 km downrange of that terminal
burst.

I do not believe the entry angle for Tunguska was particularly
steep or shallow; I think I remember the consensus is that it was
average, e.g. 30 degrees from horizontal. [Side note: 30 degrees
*is* the exact average entry angle, not 45 degrees.] So even if
the terminal burst was as high as 10 km, and there was no
atmospheric drag, meteorites could only travel about 17 km
downrange from the terminal burst.

Where meteorites would end up relative to the epicenter of
devastation depends on a combination of the original flight
direction, and the prevailing winds at the time and location of
the fall. There isn't consensus on that flight direction, though
based on the evidence I've seen I would estimate that it was
to the west-northwest. Unfortunately, the prevailing winds
are unknown, but you could probably bound them by examining
several years of historical data for mid-June to mid-July for
that general region of Siberia at around 0h UT. In fact, I think
that would be an excellent research project! I might even
tackle it myself...

> If we are right, WHERE should someone be looking to actually
> find the potentially millions of dollars of meteorites that have
> been waiting to be found all this time?

Based on my arguments above, *inside* the tree devastation
zone (which isn't very helpful, given that it covers some
2000 square kilometers!) Flight direction favors the western
half of that zone [hey, down to 1000 sq. km ;-) ] I would want
to run some Monte Carlo cases with different assumptions
for wind, terminal burst altitude and flight direction to better
constrain the fall zone. Ultimately, the choice of wind speed
and direction is going to drive the answer to your question.

--Rob


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[meteorite-list] A year ago today...

[Rob Matson]

Happy 1st Anniversary, Sutter's Mill!  (Can't believe I'm the first to mention
it, with only 15
minutes left in the anniversary day!)  --Rob


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Re: [meteorite-list] PRIMM DRY LAKE HELP

[Rob Matson]

Hi Paul,

What a terrific idea using a piece of clay as a stand-in for the missing
fragment of your Primm meteorite!  I will certainly check all of my
Roach Dry Lake meteorites to see if I have anything that looks like
it could be a match. I would not be at all surprised if I've got your
missing wedge. If I find a fragment or two that look promising, I'll
take some images and send them your way.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gessler
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 11:48 AM
To: meteorite-list
Subject: [meteorite-list] PRIMM DRY LAKE HELP

To all You hunters who have searched Primm / Roach Dry lake:

Please help me to rebuild one of my favourite meteorite finds. This 242 g 
individual was found back in 1997
and was reconstructed from 3 pieces and glued back together. It is still 
missing a small 8 gram
wedge shaped piece that hopefully can be reunited with the main mass??? Just 
want all of you
who have hunted Roach D.L. to take a look at this video and see if just 
maybe you have the piece I am looking for.
It would be Incredible to COMPLETE this meteorite's saga. If found I would 
be happy to substitute for a
larger Primm piece from our collection...and some detailed info on a Nevada 
strewn field that has yielded
some really Amazing finds. Let me know. thanks.

Would also be interested in the locations and mass of additional finds 
regardless of matching my piece so that I can
get an idea of what we missed. I want this attempt at unification to get out 
to everyone so please forward the video to anyone you know
who has searched this location or is even slightly interested.

This just might work? I hope.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW54tdOXWiE


Paul Gessler 

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[meteorite-list] No good deed goes unpunished

[Rob Matson]

Hi Mike,

Hilarious:

> Most of us dealers have put up with these nuts for decades
> and are pretty *jaded*  at this point.

In light of your story, that last phrase is classic.  :-)

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] Friday night East Coast fireball

[Rob Matson]

Hi James,

No need to feel too bad in this particular case -- from the direction of flight,
and the hundreds of witnesses that have posted their observations on
the AMS website, it unfortunately looks like this one ended up in the
Atlantic.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of James Masny
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:39 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 118, Issue 52

Every night I am home I walk my dog a few times hoping to view a
potential rock dropper.  Of course, tonight I was out at a comedy
show.  Unbelievable.  I live in Skippack, outside of Philly, and a
hunt would be possible for me if there are potential rocks on the
ground in the  area.
> --
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 17:10:17 -0700 (PDT)
> From: drtanuki 
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Breaking News- MBIQ Detects NJ MD DC VT NY
> PA  Bolide Fireball Meteor 22MAR2013
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID:
> <1363997417.49240.yahoomailclas...@web141406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Dear List,
>
> Breaking News- MBIQ Detects NJ MD DC VT NY PA Bolide Fireball Meteor 22MAR2013
>
http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.jp/2013/03/breaking-news-mbiq-detects-nj-m
d-dc-vt.html
>
> Dirk Ross...Tokyo
>
>
> --
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[meteorite-list] FW: 07DEC2012 Texas event potential meteorite dropper video surfaces 22MAR2013

[Rob Matson]

Hi Dirk,

We worked that one back in December -- it's up on the GA site.
(That video was among those I analyzed -- Pat Branch has done
a lot of video analysis of that fall as well.)  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: drtanuki [mailto:drtan...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 1:54 AM
To: Marc Fries; Rob Matson; dirk ross; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: 07DEC2012 Texas event potential meteorite dropper video surfaces
22MAR2013

Texas Fireball Meteor ~06:43 am CST 07DEC2012 with Sonics!
- Great candidate for a meteorite dropper!!!

http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.jp/2012/12/texas-fireball-meteor-07dec2012
-with.html

Posted on YouTube by Odalis Sanchez 22MAR2013 --she tried to pass in off as
another event in NE States 22MAR2013.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fyjkD35BtUU

If you witnessed this event we need your report; thank you!!
Click HERE to report.

Initial Reports:

07DEC2012 Martha Liebrum Houston 6:45 a.m.  4 seconds? Northeast to West Multi
streaming colors, huge bright Same as moon Not that I saw Light attracted my
attention...
[5:49:10 PM] dirkross: important video for an old case..several reports

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[meteorite-list] Minor Planet families

[Rob Matson]

Hi Graham,

> Thanks Robso the named groups at the moment just represent similar
> orbiting asteroids which over time have settled into that orbit over
> time after they were nudged from the asteroid belt ...

The "asteroid belt" is a pretty broad term. Between the orbits of Mars
and Jupiter are over a dozen major named families (e.g. Cybele, Eos,
Eunomia, Flora, Hilda, Hungaria, Koronis, Maria, Nysa, Phocaea, Themis,
Main Belt I, Main Belt II, Main Belt IIb, Main Belt IIIa, Main Belt IIIb). It's
not unlike the naming of different meteorite groups: just as all H-chondrites
share common features, each asteroid family has a particular combination
of orbital elements (semi-major axis and inclination are the primary
determinants of a minor planet's family) that distinguish it from its
neighbors.

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] Familiar face on the BBC

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

Saw a familiar face starting about 31 seconds into this new story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21552923

It's Dima!  Of course, I'm not surprised he's one of the first on the scene.
Best of luck out there!  --Rob


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[meteorite-list] Axel Alex video

[Rob Matson]

Hi Robin,

I want to thank you for all the detective work you've been doing on the
Russian meteor -- particularly determining the locations of some of the
video cameras that recorded either the bolide itself, or its contrail and
sonic booms.

> This little-viewed video (603 views) by Axel Alex:

>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R99zvcrqXo8

> appears to be taken directly under the path of the meteor close to its
> point of main conflagration (my terminology).  From some coordinates
> supplied by Serge in an email update, the text of which does not appear
> on the above page.  This was clearly taken at the coordinates Serge
> supplied: 54.872644 N, 61.200792 E, with three smokestacks behind a
> building:



This location is extremely close to the main disruption event (can't quite
call it a terminal burst since a significant mass continues downrange from
this point). Looks to be only 1 km north of the ground track of the
bolide. Closest line-of-sight distance to the meteor track would have
been just under 26 km.

--Rob


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Re: [meteorite-list] Boom 28 secs after Russian meteor passes overhead - oops^8 88 secs!

[Rob Matson]

Hi Robin,

Okay -- a minute and 28 seconds is quite a bit more "normal".
Now we're talking about an altitude between 25 and 30 km.
With this higher altitude, the average temperature drops so
the average speed of sound will also. Call it around 305 m/sec.
That puts the range at just under 27 km, so altitude might
have been as low as 26 km at closest approach to Korkino.
At that altitude, a large mass might continue more than
100 km further downrange if the entry angle was as shallow
as 10 degrees.

--Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com on behalf of Robin Whittle
Sent: Sat 2/16/2013 8:54 PM
To: 'METEORITE LIST'
Cc: Rob Matson
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Boom 28 secs after Russian meteor passes overhead
- oops 98 secs!
 
A list member kindly pointed out that there was more than a few seconds
deleted from this video.  I didn't look at the minutes figure.

The meteor is overhead at 43:06 and the shockwave arrives at 44.34.

So this puts the altitude about three times the 8.7km estimated by Bob
Matson.  From:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound#Altitude_variation_and_implications_
for_atmospheric_acoustics

  http://en.wikipedia.org
/wiki/File:Comparison_US_standard_atmosphere_1962.svg

the speed of sound varies somewhat.  Since this is a large positive
pressure wave, maybe it would travel somewhat faster than a small
pressure wave at these higher altitudes.  Sticking with the 310
metre/sec guesstimate of Bob Matson, 98 seconds gives us 30.4 km.

  - Robin


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[meteorite-list] 2012 DA14 and the Russian meteor

[Rob Matson]

Hi Bjorn,

Okay, let's try this from a solar perspective since it seems you don't like
the geocentric perspective. 2012 DA14 is an Amor that has its aphelion
at just under 1 a.u., and its perihelion at about 0.83 a.u. At the time of
its encounter with earth, it's longitude of ascending node was almost
exactly at the earth's solar longitude.  Because their velocities around
the sun are very close to one another, nearly all of the relative velocity
between the two of them is in a direction perpendicular to earth's
orbital plane, owing to 2012 DA14's 11.6-degree inclination. It's like
two jets flying in the same direction at about the same speed, but
one of them is in level flight, and the other is rapidly gaining altitude
(from below the other jet).

So let's pretend that instead of 2012 DA14 being alone, it has a bunch
of companions spread out ahead of it in orbit, behind it, and perhaps
even at slightly different radial distances from the sun. They're still
all going at very nearly the same velocity around the sun, in very
nearly the same orbital plane. What I believe you are suggesting is
that perhaps there was an object leading 2012 DA14 by some number
of hours and that instead of crossing the earth's orbital plane on the
side opposite the sun (as 2012 DA14) did, it crossed on the sunrise
terminator side of the earth -- just ahead of the earth -- and that
the earth then caught up to it from behind (and of course
gravitationally pulled it in as well). So far so good. But here's the
problem:  that pesky 11.6 degree inclination. Just as with 2012 DA14's
relative velocity, your candidate object has nearly all of its relative
velocity in a direction fairly closely aligned with earth's pole. As
such, any resulting bolide in the northern hemisphere would have
to be moving quite close to a south-to-north trajectory, and we
know that the Russian bolide did not do this. That's why I keep
mentioning the 90-degree angle problem: how do you get your
meteoroid to do a big right turn and head away from the sun
so that it can have an east-to-west motion over Russia?

--Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bjorn Sorheim
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 5:53 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 2012 DA14 and the Russian meteor: a strong link

Hello List,
I can't see in any way how your statements can be true, and I wonder
how anyone can. I would assume NASA has way more educated
professionals in this than you. Why do they say: 'Preliminary information 
indicates ---
not related'? They would have been able to refute a strike for all areas of 
Russia according
to your reasoning.

When an asteroid having a shallow inclination of 10 deg to the ecliptical 
plane,
that is Earth's orbital plane, and a fragment originating from this, 
travelling parallell
to this, as I assume the meteorid/asteroid that came down near Chelyabinsk
did, it will easily hit ANY part of Earth provided it hits when that part 
of Earth is
facing towards it.
Giving a large number of objects in a swarm around/forwards/backwards of 
it, these
fragments from asteroid 2012DA14 will get to ground on all parts of the 
Earth as the Earth
rotates through the day and night, that should be obvious.

On a psychological note, I observe that none of you have countered any 
given sentence I
have written on this russian meteor.
You just manically keep reiterating that they are not related. I can only sea
anxiety behind this.

Sorry, Marco, but you are flatly wrong here. Your statement is absurd.
Only asteroids with very high inclination of 70-90 degree would behave the 
way you say here.
We are talking 10 degrees in this case, and your statements are ridiculous 
and shocking.
You seem to believe that the orbit of 2012DA14 is retrograde, which of 
course it is not.

So please, if you can prove me wrong on any sentence or statement I have 
written, do it.
But please, Marco, Rob and Chris do it also internally to the other members 
of your
internal group, and don't behave like a pack of wolves...

I hope also when someone are putting forwards a clearly wrong statement,
me or anyone else are allowed to denounce that statement from the person. I 
hope we can do so,
also with a degree of engagement and temperament. I say this also to the 
other readers of this
discussion, as the temperament here may surprise you. Right or wrong 
staements or
assumptions make a lot of difference in this case.

Bjørn Sørheim


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Re: [meteorite-list] Boom 28 secs after Russian meteor passes overhead

[Rob Matson]

Great find, Robin. (Though I nearly could bear to listen to that "music"!)  One 
could
probably get a pretty good estimate of the average speed of sound below 10 km
altitude with a typical temperature profile for this part of Russia in early 
morning in
mid-February (presumably quite cold!)  At, say, 310 m/sec, the bolide range is
only 8.7 km, so given the high maximum elevation angle of the meteor as seen
in the video, the altitude will only be a smidge lower than this. (This is VERY 
low,
which explains the severity of the shock waves.)  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com 
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Robin Whittle
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 4:53 PM
To: METEORITE LIST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Boom 28 secs after Russian meteor passes overhead

Here is a relatively little-watched video showing a 28 second time delay
after the meteor passes almost overhead, and slightly to the south:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odKjwrjIM-k

I am not sure where this is located.  With some work such as that of:


http://ogleearth.com/2013/02/reconstructing-the-chelyabinsk-meteors-path-with-google-earth-youtube-and-high-school-math/

it should be possible to calculate its rate of angular movement.  There
is a ~28 second time delay between the meteor passing almost exactly
overhead, which with a little work could be refined to a figure accurate
to a fraction of a second.  According to a post at the abovementioned
page, the well known video:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwieex7gFAs

is from the suburb of Rosa (Roza) 54� 54' 38? N, 61� 27' 15? E, ~23km
south of Chelyabinsk.  This shows the path of the meteor being a few km
to the south.

I guess the first-mentioned video is from much the same area.  If so,
with some knowledge of shock wave propagation speeds at various
altitudes, it should be possible to calculate the altitude and velocity
of the meteor at this point.

Another little-watched video with the smoke trail almost overhead is:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64gXz9W2oyQ

This is supposedly from Emanzhelinsk / Yemanzhelinsk, which is further
south still.  I think this shows the smoke trail to be somewhat to the
north, with the initial view of the trail being at the western end.

This would enable the track of the meteor to be located just a few km
north of this location, somewhere between Roza and Emanzhelinsk /
Yemanzhelinsk.


http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Russia,+Chelyabinskaya+oblast,+Rosa&hl=en&ll=54.913725,61.42868&spn=0.584928,1.087646&sll=-37.73563,145.07369&sspn=0.050298,0.067978&oq=Rosa+Chely&t=h&hnear=Roza,+Korkinsky+District,+Chelyabinsk+Oblast,+Russia&z=10

  - Robin

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Re: [meteorite-list] 2012 DA14 and the Russian meteor: no link

[Rob Matson]

Hi Marco,

I couldn't have explained it any better myself. But I have a feeling that
it's the Porthcawl "bolide" (err SST) all over again. Even almost a decade
after that non-event, there are people who like to show that image as
an example of a brilliant fireball.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Marco
Langbroek
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 4:08 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2012 DA14 and the Russian meteor: no link


Hi all,

I still see suggestions popping up on this list about a possible link between 
2012 DA14 and the Russian meteor.

I want to point out that even without an accurate trajectory for the Russian 
bolide, a link with 2012 DA14 can be 100% rejected. The orbital geometry of 2012

DA14 and the latitude of 55 N for the Russian bolide make this impossible.

2012 DA14 and any fragments in a swarm in similar orbit, would approach the 
earth from deep south. The geocentric radiant for the orbit of 2012 DA14 is at 
declination -81 degrees. This means 2012 DA14 fragments approach earth almost 
parallel to the earth polar axis, coming from the south. I.e. they approach 
towards the south pole and the southern hemisphere.

This means fragments can impact on the southern hemisphere, but not on the 
northern hemisphere (except very low latitudes north if we take earth 
gravitational curvature of the final trajectory in account). Because the 
northern hemisphere, and certainly a place as far north as 55 N, is at the "far 
side" of the earth globe as seen from the 2012 DA14 entry direction.

Compare it with a car. A bird coming in frontal will always hit the front of the

car - it cannot hit the back of the car. Chelyabinsk at 55 North latitude is 
"the back of the car" in this comparison, given the approach direction of 2012 
DA 14 and any fragments of it.

- Marco



Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek
astero...@langbroek.org

http://www.marcolangbroek.nl
http://asteroids.marcolangbroek.nl
-



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[meteorite-list] Russian meteor composition

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

Getting back to the Russian meteor itself, what I find most surprising so far is
that after two full days of daylight hours to search for fragments against a
fairly white background, not one meteorite has been found. The prevailing
wisdom ~had~ been that this was an iron, given the deep penetration and
seemingly minimal deceleration. But with nothing found so far -- in spite of
the relatively low entry velocity, shallow trajectory, and huge initial mass --
I begin to question that initial compositional assumption. Maybe this was
closer to Tunguska-like than it was Sikhote-Alin-like (i.e. cometary). That
said, the initial estimate of the orbit doesn't appear to be very comet-like
(low semi-major axis). The period is lower than that of even 2P/Encke.

 --Rob


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Re: [meteorite-list] Russia mega meteor and asteroid 2012DA14 related, yes I think so...

[Rob Matson]

Hi Michael,

> ... I have learned to be more and more skeptical about the common/obvious
> knowledge over the years... You might be right... but be careful about your
> high level of "certainty"...

The level of celestial mechanical certainty involved here is comparable to the
uncertainty that 1+1 = 2. That said, I will play Devil's Advocate and mention
that
there is one rather far-out scenario which is probably still dynamically
impossible,
but I mention it out of completeness. Imagine an object (that was once part
of 2012 DA14) leading it by nearly a day on a slightly different trajectory.
(Forget for the moment that days if not weeks before the 2012 DA14 flyby
it would have been detected by astronomers that were already tracking
the larger asteroid.) Suppose this unlikely object happens to make an
extremely grazing pass of the lunar farside such that its direction is
drastically
bent by ~90 degrees -- in precisely the right direction for a grazing intercept
with Earth, say, 6 to 10 hours later. Such a 3-body solution is the ONLY way to
bring about the situation you require, and yet I would argue that the
probability
of it happening by chance is much, much smaller than that of two smallish
asteroids making a close pass by earth within 24 hours of each other.

Really, though, the failure to telescopically detect the second object ahead
of 2012 DA14 when it was being tracked by so many professionals and
citizen scientists throws a bit of cold water on the whole crazy scenario.

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] Trajectory comparison of 2012 DA14 and Russian meteor

[Rob Matson]

Hi Mike/Bjorn/List,

Esko, Bill Gray and I exchanged a number of e-mails amongst each other yesterday
and early today discussing the Russian meteor trajectory. From the perspective
of
the earth, the two trajectories to first order are nearly perpendicular to each
other.
So that is pretty much end-of-story for any dynamical linkage between the
Russian
meteor and 2012 DA14.

Esko has since revised his estimate of the approach azimuth by a few degrees,
resulting in a lower velocity for the Russian meteor -- and getting closer to
the
minimum velocity possible. Unfortunately, the chances of precovery observations
of the small asteroid are pretty much zero due to the low solar elongation.
About
the only hope of a precovery observation would be if the elongation was low
enough that the object was within SOHO LASCO C3's field of view roughly a
day before impact. But even if it was, I doubt it would have been anywhere
near bright enough for LASCO to detect due to its small size and extremely
poor phase angle.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hankey
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:39 AM
To: Bjorn Sorheim
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russia mega meteor and asteroid 2012DA14 related,
yes I think so...

Esko posted these yesterday on meteor obs. This is estimated. The
wired article said it used SETI results.

Using mainly the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZxXYscmgRg
and the weather satellite image, with no real good calibrations, I get a
rough solar system orbit ( the last stage by means of Marco Langbroek
Excel sheet).


( Entry with velocity 17 km/s ( 17.3) from about az. 97 with the slope
of 18 deg. Corresponding (luminous) start heigth (assumed, quite heigh
for the velocity, but considers very big size) 100 km and the end 7+  km.)
a=1.66
e=0.52
q=0.80 AU
aphelion at 2.53 AU
node=326.43 ( J2000.0 )
arg peri=116.0
i=4.05
43.6 days after perihelion
The geocentric radiant is 338, +2
This is only of very general quality and given with (a lot) too many
decimals.

The orbit does not much resemble the 2009 Feb, 16 innish fireball that I
told of yesterday.

According to that solution, the landing site would be not much more than
30 km away from that video recording site. But I do not know the
coordinates of this, except very roughly.
There quite probably are a lot of small fragments fallen down much
earlier along the track,  (with possibly a number of bigger ones,
besides the main piece).

Esko




On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Bjorn Sorheim  wrote:
>
> Where are these elements posted??
> It's impossible that they could be as different as you state here.
> My mailbox got full yesterday, so if they have been posted on this list
> while I could not receive any new messages, I must apologize.
> But if not, post the elements or supply a link.
> It is interesting to note that NASA have not issued any stronger comment
> than they did yesterday.
> I am also surprised that good elements, as your anwer would indicate,
> could be computed the same day they first occured. Not a thing of earlier
> days
> such an achievement.
>
> The professor of astrophysics and celestial mechanics is a highly competent
> guy,
> therefore NASA used him.
>
> Bjørn Sørheim
>
>
>
>>I'm talking about two different trajectories. Different inclinations,
>>different semimajor axes, (very) different eccentricities, (very)
>>different geocentric velocities. There is no plausible mechanism for
>>ending up with two pieces of the same body in such radically different
>>orbits- it would require first separating them, and then subjecting each
>>to a different history of three-body interactions.
>>
>>If the "foremost" celestial mechanics expert in your country says the
>>two are similar, he is not competent. I don't notice him speaking out.
>>
>>Chris
>>
>>***
>>Chris L Peterson
>>Cloudbait Observatory
>>
>>
>>On 2/15/2013 11:35 PM, Bjorn Sorheim wrote:
>>>
>>> Two completely different trajectories??
>>> What the heck are you talking about?
>>> They are quite similar. It would not at this point say they are
>>> identical.
>>> In WHAT way are they _completely different_, elaborate please.
>>> And don't be so d** arrogant, for christ sake.
>>> I could mention that the foremost celest mechanican in my country says
>>> they
>>> are strangly similar, and he has been working for NASA and the Voyagers,
>>> and he has
>>> an asteroid named after him.
>>>
>>> Bjørn Sørheim


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Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034

[Rob Matson]

Since Saharite is already in use, and Moroccoite or Maracite (if meant to honor
NWA)
are overly exclusive (ignoring Algeria, Western Sahara, or even Tunisia and
Libya),
why not Berberite? (Apologies if this has already been suggested.)  The term is
inclusive, and honors the people responsible for finding the majority of the
meteorites.  It's easy to pronounce, does not correspond to any rocks or
minerals that I'm aware of, and even has the pair of B's to alliteratively tie
it
to both Black Beauty and Basaltic Breccia.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Terry Boswell
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Carl Agee; meteoritelist meteoritelist
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034

Hi Carl,]

Saharite is already in use in reference to fulgurites found in the Sahara 
Desert.

Phil Whitmer
Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum

- Original Message - 
From: "Carl Agee" 
To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" 
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034


> Jeff,
>
> Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people
> do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new
> Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic
> measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new
> name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the
> meteorites from Mars or "SCANS"
>
> S: shergottite
> C: chassignite
> A: ALH 84001
> N: nakhlite
> S: saharaite
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Carl Agee
>
>
> --
> Carl B. Agee
> Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
> Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
> MSC03 2050
> University of New Mexico
> Albuquerque NM 87131-1126
>
> Tel: (505) 750-7172
> Fax: (505) 277-3577
> Email: a...@unm.edu
> http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
>
>
> ---
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500
> From: Jeff Grossman 
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite.
>
> SNCPB?
>
> If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about 
> CANNS?
>
> Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian
> meteorites?
>
> Jeff
>
> On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>> I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call 
>> letters...Stay
>> tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB.
>> Regards, Fred H.
>>
>>> How shall we organize the new class of Martian?
>>>
>>> Until now it has been SNC
>>>
>>> How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ?
>>>
>>> SNCB
>>>
>>> What say you all?
>>>
>>> -Paul Gessler
>>> __
>>>
>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
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>>>
>>
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[meteorite-list] VIIRS composite images

[Rob Matson]

Hi Rich,

Last decade I worked on VIIRS for about two years up in Goleta, CA, so it's nice
to finally
see some composite images from that sensor!  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Rich Murray
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:34 PM
To: Rich Murray
Subject: [meteorite-list] cloud free night views of USA and of Earth via NASA
satellite -- much change since I went to college in 1960...: Rich Murray
2012.12.05

cloud free night views of USA and of Earth via NASA satellite -- much
change since I went to college in 1960...: Rich Murray 2012.12.05

Credit: NASA Earth Observatory/NOAA NGDC (Phys.org) -- Scientists
unveiled today an unprecedented new look at our planet at night.
A global composite image, constructed using cloud-free night images
from a new NASA and National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
(NOAA) satellite, shows the glow of natural and human-built phenomena
across the planet in greater detail than ever before.

This image of the continental United States at night is a composite
assembled from data acquired by the Suomi NPP satellite in April and
October 2012.
The image was made possible by the satellite's "day-night band" of the
Visible Infrared Imaging Radiometer Suite (VIIRS), which detects light
in a range of wavelengths from green to near-infrared and uses
filtering techniques to observe dim signals such as city lights, gas
flares, auroras, wildfires and reflected moonlight.

Read more at:
http://phys.org/news/2012-12-satellite-reveals-views-earth-night.html#jCp

http://phys.org/news/2012-12-satellite-reveals-views-earth-night.html#nwlt

http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/hires/2012/nasanoaasate.jpg
USA

http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/hires/2012/satelliterev.jpg
World
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[meteorite-list] Tiny Cuddeback 030

[Rob Matson]

Hi Mendy -- had no idea my Cuddeback find was a candidate for smallest meteorite
(though I see
there are a number of others that are less than 100 mg)... --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mendy Ouzillou
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 4:10 PM
To: Anne Black; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Smallest Meteorite

Adalia 1g
DAG 1048 0.8g
Cuddeback Dry Lake 030 (provisional) 0.23g


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Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: First Alabama stone found!

[Rob Matson]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the kind words about the Galactic Analytics team, and like
you, I want to congratulate Stephen Beck, Tommy Brown, Jerry Hinkle
and Robert Woolard for their impressive timetable in making the
first find in Alabama's latest fall. It's been an exciting year
for recovered meteorite falls in the US, and we would love nothing
more than to facilitate a 5th recovered fall before the calendar
year is out! I only wish that I had the time to contribute on both
analysis AND recovery of each fall. (I still plan to make it up to
the Novato area before year's end so that I can at least say I put
in some boot time on both of California's 2012 falls.)

Best of luck to those continuing to work the Alabama fall, and we
certainly look forward to seeing more images from the field!

--Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com on behalf of Michael
Farmer
Sent: Sun 11/4/2012 8:44 AM
To: Marc Fries
Cc: Meteorite Mailing List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: First Alabama stone found!

Congrats to the guys in the field, proving how valuable that Marc Fries  and
Rob Matson's work is. Nothing can compare to boots on the ground, but that
radar data sure makes it faster:)
I saw the stone via email last night and could hardly contain myself.
Beautiful meteorite, long time in coming for Alabama. I am so happy that the
USA has now been graced with four recovered falls this year, and hoping a
few mo make it down before Tucson show. I was with Jerry in Battle Mountain
when he found a 52 gram stone under a bush, he worked hard and they deserve
the recognition for finding Alabama's first meteorite fall in more than 50
years!

Michael Farmer

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:13 AM, Marc Fries
 wrote:

>
> Hi List,
>
>  ( Marc Fries was kind enough to host/post this to the list for me since I
can't send photos thru the List) Please see the exciting news below, as well
as a couple of photos of the stone.
>
>  *
>
>  I am happy to have the pleasure of being able to announce that the first
stone from the new Alabama fall last Tuesday, Oct 30th has been found!
>
>  A big CONGRATS to the team members Stephen Beck, Tommy Brown and Jerry
Hinkle on their beautiful find late yesterday evening (11-3-12), almost
exactly 4 days to the hour from the time of the fall. Great job, guys!
>
>  No exact weight available yet, but best guess is near 60grams. Appears to
be an OC, possibly brecciated. This particular specimen has a prominent
metal vein on one corner.
>
>  Also a big THANK YOU to Marc Fries, Jeff Fries, Rob Matson, and Jake
Schaefer for their fantastic work with the radar! Most List members probably
know that Jerry and I have been meteorite-hunting partners for over 20 years
now. We had just subscribed to Galactic Analytics on Friday, 11-2. I had to
work this weekend and couldn't join him (my wife said I should have asked
someone to work for me- she was right... again ;-) on this hunt, but Jerry
headed to Alabama Sat. morning with the maps, and by the end of the day, a
meteorite was in hand! Now if that isn't a great testimony to the value of
the GA radar map service, I don't know what would be. Great job by you guys,
too!
>
>  Now for a little back ground on the other members of the team and the
story of how these guys got together to find a "find-of-a-lifetime".
>
>  Stephen Beck is a good friend of mine who has several very interesting
hobbies and a very successful practice, but meteorite hunting is something
he had never actually got to do. Ironically, I had told him less than two
weeks ago that the next time I went on a hunt I would definitely invite him.
How were we to know that it would only be a few days before HE would be
contacting me about his local news station there in AL describing a
tremendous fireball that evening, complete with sonic booms. Not 5 minutes
later, another friend sent me an email saying that Mike (Farmer) had just
called him from Germany saying he had just learned of the fall and that
there were almost certainly stones on the ground there. I told Jerry about
it and since he's living the good life now and had plenty of time to go, he
started making plans to go Sat morning. We arranged for him to meet up with
Stephen and his
> friend, Tommy Brown, who knew the area well. When they found the stone,
they sent me a photo and I forwarded it to Mike. No doubt about it!
>
> (see the photos of the stone that Marc is hosting for us)
>
>
>  Best wishes,
>  Robert Woolard
>
> --
>
> Howdy, all - Marc Fries writing now...
>
> I have started up a gallery of meteorite photos on the Galactic Analytics
web page!  I want to fill this gallery with pictures of meteorites that we
help you recover. I need to figure out how to add labels with th

Re: [meteorite-list] Addendum on UK fireball

[Rob Matson]

Yes, the fantastic photo from O'Brien's at the Cliffs of Moher on
the west coast of Ireland suggests most of the UK fireball
completely crossed Ireland and headed out over the north Atlantic.
Given that it was already fragmenting when it passed north of
Preston, UK, the altitude must have been very high and the
entry angle extremely shallow. I suggest there's a chance
that some of the meteoroid made it back into space, a la
the Great Daylight Meteor over the Grand Tetons in '72.

--Rob

-Original Message-
From: Graham Ensor [mailto:graham.en...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 4:34 PM
To: Rob Matson
Cc: Martin Goff; Alexander Seidel; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;
robert.d.mat...@saic.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Addendum on UK fireball


There are several reports though of it still burning up as it traveled
across Irelandfingers crossed that somebody finds something
unusual lying around out there but  think it probably headed out past
Irelandunless some came down on the west coast were I found my
last onewas only there again this spring hunting.

G

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[meteorite-list] UK bolide flight path update

[Rob Matson]

I went back to Graham's original post and see that the fireball was also
travelling right-to-left as seen from Preston, UK:

>Reports of massive fireball travelling across the UK just over 1 hour ago...
>Very much like Peekskillvideo here...lots of other pictures coming in...
>
>http://twitter.yfrog.com/07l5tkggpuvoluavefdcaztrz
>
>Graham

This moves the ground track a bit further to the north, crossing more
over the center of the Isle of Man than the southern tip. It's
unfortunate that the meteoroid has already broken up into dozens of
pieces by the time it passes north of Preston -- a lot of those will
have ended up in the sea (though with luck maybe some on the Isle of
Man itself). And yet many pieces seem to maintain a decent fraction
of their cosmic velocity as they continue to the WNW, so they must
be of pretty good size.  --Rob

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[meteorite-list] Addendum on UK fireball

[Rob Matson]

Also -- the video from Dalbeattie, UK, showing the bolide fairly low
on the horizon moving left to right and nearly parallel to the horizon
confirms the shallow entry angle, the east-to-west motion, and suggests
that the ground track was much closer to Manchester & Liverpool than it
was to Dalbeattie. I believe the bolide traveled over the southern tip
of the Isle of Man, with perhaps a 10-15 degree northern component to the
trajectory (i.e. ESE to WNW toward bearing 280-285 deg) and ended up
somewhere south of Belfast. I'll keep pouring over the witness reports
to see if I can firm that up any.  --Rob

-Original Message-----
From: Rob Matson [mailto:mojave_meteori...@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 1:59 PM
To: Martin Goff; Alexander Seidel
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; robert.d.mat...@saic.com
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball!


It would help to know the orientation of his camera. He mentions that
the camera points nearly to zenith, with a slight tilt westward
toward Belfast, but he doesn't mention which direction "down" points
to (north, south, east, west, etc.)

In any case, the very shallow entry angle of the bolide coupled with
the roughly east-to-west trajectory and the high elevation angle
from Bangor distinctly increases the probability that some if not
most of the meteoroid traversed the Irish Sea and made landfall in
Northern Ireland!  If the bottom of the video faces south, then
the fall location would be somewhere southwest of Bangor. Given
that the ground track is known to have been north of Liverpool
and Manchester (going right-to-left as seen from those cities),
and observation from Newcastle would be very helpful in pinning
down the fall zone.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Martin
Goff
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 3:29 AM
To: Alexander Seidel
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; robert.d.mat...@saic.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball!


Another video here

http://m.youtube.com/#/user/meteorlog?desktop_uri=%2Fuser%2Fmeteorlog&gl=GB

On 22/09/2012, Martin Goff  wrote:
> Thankyou Alex, I do feel blessed to have seen it from start to finish
> and from such a clear viewpoint as where I was, simply stunning :-)
> Would be even better to have a rock in the collection from an event
> such as this where you witnessed it yourself! However my hopes are low
> as I think the 'somewhere' is going to be in the sea :-(  I really
> hope I am wrong though :-)
>
> Cheers
>
> Martin
>
> On 22/09/2012, Alexander Seidel  wrote:
>> Congrats, Martin, for being in the right place at the right time! Must
>> have
>> been a gorgeous sighting, just like winning the lottery. As Rob already
>> pointed out, seeing this going west it unlikely will or could have been a
>> decaying satellite, as almost all of those are heading eastwards somehow,
>> along with earth rotation direction, so what you saw was a spectacular
>> fireball most likely originating from "the real stuff" 
>>
>> Did it drop something to Earth somewhere, and where is that "somewhere"?
>> :-)
>>
>> Alex
>> Berlin/Germany
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Original-Nachricht 
>>> Datum: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 01:09:30 +0100
>>> Von: Martin Goff 
>>> An: Michael Farmer 
>>> CC: "meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com"
>>> , "Matson, Robert D."
>>> 
>>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball!
>>
>>> Mike, It was absolutely stunning! Am just amazed that i saw it as i
>>> was on patrol in my vehicle. Right place, right time for once!
>>>
>>> Unfortunately it appears that it will have dropped anything into the sea
>>> :-(
>>>
>>> Fingers crossed for otherwise though, you never know :-)
>>>
>>> Am a very happy chappy :-)
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> On 22/09/2012, Michael Farmer  wrote:
>>> > wow, that would have been incredible to see in person!
>>> >
>>> > Michael Farmer
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPad
>>> >
>>> > On Sep 21, 2012, at 4:54 PM, "Matson, Robert D."
>>> 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Hi Martin,
>>> >>
>>> >> Given the east-to-west direction, space junk is extremely unlikely.
>>> >> (Very few manmade objects in such retrograde orbits.)
>>> >>
>>> >> Unfortunately, from your description it sounds like it most lik

Re: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball!

[Rob Matson]

It would help to know the orientation of his camera. He mentions that
the camera points nearly to zenith, with a slight tilt westward
toward Belfast, but he doesn't mention which direction "down" points
to (north, south, east, west, etc.)

In any case, the very shallow entry angle of the bolide coupled with
the roughly east-to-west trajectory and the high elevation angle
from Bangor distinctly increases the probability that some if not
most of the meteoroid traversed the Irish Sea and made landfall in
Northern Ireland!  If the bottom of the video faces south, then
the fall location would be somewhere southwest of Bangor. Given
that the ground track is known to have been north of Liverpool
and Manchester (going right-to-left as seen from those cities),
and observation from Newcastle would be very helpful in pinning
down the fall zone.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Martin
Goff
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 3:29 AM
To: Alexander Seidel
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; robert.d.mat...@saic.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball!


Another video here

http://m.youtube.com/#/user/meteorlog?desktop_uri=%2Fuser%2Fmeteorlog&gl=GB

On 22/09/2012, Martin Goff  wrote:
> Thankyou Alex, I do feel blessed to have seen it from start to finish
> and from such a clear viewpoint as where I was, simply stunning :-)
> Would be even better to have a rock in the collection from an event
> such as this where you witnessed it yourself! However my hopes are low
> as I think the 'somewhere' is going to be in the sea :-(  I really
> hope I am wrong though :-)
>
> Cheers
>
> Martin
>
> On 22/09/2012, Alexander Seidel  wrote:
>> Congrats, Martin, for being in the right place at the right time! Must
>> have
>> been a gorgeous sighting, just like winning the lottery. As Rob already
>> pointed out, seeing this going west it unlikely will or could have been a
>> decaying satellite, as almost all of those are heading eastwards somehow,
>> along with earth rotation direction, so what you saw was a spectacular
>> fireball most likely originating from "the real stuff" 
>>
>> Did it drop something to Earth somewhere, and where is that "somewhere"?
>> :-)
>>
>> Alex
>> Berlin/Germany
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Original-Nachricht 
>>> Datum: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 01:09:30 +0100
>>> Von: Martin Goff 
>>> An: Michael Farmer 
>>> CC: "meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com"
>>> , "Matson, Robert D."
>>> 
>>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball!
>>
>>> Mike, It was absolutely stunning! Am just amazed that i saw it as i
>>> was on patrol in my vehicle. Right place, right time for once!
>>>
>>> Unfortunately it appears that it will have dropped anything into the sea
>>> :-(
>>>
>>> Fingers crossed for otherwise though, you never know :-)
>>>
>>> Am a very happy chappy :-)
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> On 22/09/2012, Michael Farmer  wrote:
>>> > wow, that would have been incredible to see in person!
>>> >
>>> > Michael Farmer
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPad
>>> >
>>> > On Sep 21, 2012, at 4:54 PM, "Matson, Robert D."
>>> 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Hi Martin,
>>> >>
>>> >> Given the east-to-west direction, space junk is extremely unlikely.
>>> >> (Very few manmade objects in such retrograde orbits.)
>>> >>
>>> >> Unfortunately, from your description it sounds like it most likely
>>> >> ended up going over Southport into the Irish Sea southeast of the
>>> >> Isle of Man. Your location is less than 60 km from the coast.
>>> >>
>>> >> --Rob
>>> >>
>>> >> -Original Message-
>>> >> From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Martin
>>> >> Goff
>>> >> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 4:44 PM
>>> >> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball!
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi all,
>>> >>
>>> >> I have just been exceedingly fortunate to view a large fragmenting
>>> >> fireball over the UK. Absolutely amazing sight! Looked so similar to
>>> >> Peekskill with lots of fragmentation. Am unfortunately at work all
>>> night
>>> >> so unable to further research it but already there are numerous
>>> >> reports
>>> >> and sightings. A video of the event has been found here:
>>> >>
>>> >> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df89jhMjLXY)
>>> >>
>>> >> Might be space junk? The fireball had a definite greenish tinge at
>>> >> the
>>> >> beginning.
>>> >>
>>> >> Going east to west. from the A627 in Chadderton, Oldham, Lancashire.
>>> >> Startpoint 25 degrees altitude, 90 degrees azimuth. Endpoint 20
>>> >> degrees
>>> >> altitude, 290 degrees azimuth. visible for 40 seconds at 22:55hrs
>>> >> 21/9/12. Went from green to orange to yellow with lots of
>>> fragmentation.
>>> >> Am still gobsmacked that i saw it Hopefully it will have dropped
>>> >> some meteorites and hopefully not into the

[meteorite-list] Curiosity on Mars

[Rob Matson]

Very impressive accomplishment given how audacious the landing
sequence was! I was surprised how quickly they got that low
resolution first image (complete with landing dust on the
lens). Hats off to the NASA/JPL team!  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of karmaka
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 10:53 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Touchdown


BRAVO to anyone who is involved in this mission !!!
 
Brilliant engineering !
 
Martin
 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Question about Meteorite Hunting - Bob Haag?

[Rob Matson]

Hi Mike,

> Not long after I first got into meteorites, the Carancas fall
> happened.  Meteorite hunters descended on the area - something
> we are all familiar with now.  Bob Haag went down there and
> collected some very nice specimens.  However, since then, we
> never hear anything about Bob chasing falls. ...
>
> So, my question is - is Bob officially "retired" from chasing
> falls?

I don't believe so. For instance, Bob did go to Sutter's Mill.

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] Time of 30 May 2012 meteor over northern California

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

I have a time on that CA fall on 30 May 2012 that Dirk Ross
posted about a couple days ago. It was between 1:43 and
1:44 am PDT (8:43-8:44 GMT). I've searched for it in radar
data, but did not find anything that was unambiguously the
bolide. Perhaps Marc Fries will have better luck. Location
is northeastern California -- more north than Lake Tahoe,
and definitely on the California side of the CA/NV border.
Probably goes without saying that it was nowhere near as
big as the Sutter's Mill fall.

A post-mortem on the witness reports:

#1: Maranda Sacramento, CA 01:44 AM PST 2 sec North to South
Neon Green sun. Looked like a neon green ribbon zigzagging
then went dark.
(Maranda was the only one with the correct time -- assuming
you correct her timezone from PST to PDT. The north-to-south
direction is probably wrong.)

#2: Russ Merced, CA 95340 1:50:00 One Mississippi Star fell
downward Bright royal blue & yellow, with a long tail.
Thought it was a firework. None that I saw no other.
(No useful directional information.)

#3: Danny, Sacramento, CA approx 0130-0200 4 to 5 seconds
west i think i saw what looked like a green tail it was huge
sun no it was amazing.
(Direction he observed it was most definitely NOT in the
west; I suppose from his vantage point it could have
appeared to be moving toward the west from the north-
northeast.)

#4: Dustin McFall, Yuba City, CA. 1:50:00 1sec south to north
bright white/blue with orange sparks when exploded same as
lightning it exploded at the end and parts went everywhere.
(South to north is possible; report of fragmentation is
promising for meteorite generation.)

#5: Kami, Copperopolis, 1:40:00 around 4 sec from right to
left in a down angle red,white,blue no sound but it look to
be a brighter flash halfway thru. 3-4 times brighter than
the brightest star i can see no, i could not see any parts
falling i was standing on our back porch smoking a
cigarette and i saw a super bright light move from right
to left in a downward motion... halfway thru the movement
there was a flash that was brighter that the meteor itself.
(the first useful/believable report in terms of the apparent
motion of the meteor. From her vantage point, the meteor
would have been to her north or north-northeast.)

#6: Chris, Clovis, CA 1:55am (aprox.) 1 second NE Bright
electric blue, disappeared behind tree on the horizon. a
little brighter than the moon. No tail was observed. Just
a blue ball falling. descent was more vertical. No pictures.
(His NE direction would have you believe it fell over
northern Nevada, but it definitely fell over California.)

--Rob
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[meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill mass range

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

As an addendum to my Saturday post, the Sutter's Mill main
mass finder passed the torch back to Robert Ward on Thursday.
Robert is currently the proud finder of both the smallest
(0.1g complete) and largest (~44g) meteorites from this fall.

--Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Rob
Matson
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 4:23 PM
To: Jim Wooddell
Cc: Meteorite-List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Coloma / Lotus / Sutter Mill Articles

Hi Jim,

In the article of your first link, you'll find the
following confusing sentence:

"It was then he learned that not only did he find the largest
piece to date, but that his find has been identified as the
main mass of the meteor."

I guess the writer wasn't clear on what was meant by "main
mass". For a fresh fall, the so-called "main mass" may
be changing on a daily basis. In the case of Sutter's Mill,
where over 99% of its meteorites will never be found, the
actual main mass of the fall is unlikely to be among the 1%.

Very amusing that someone found gold while looking for
meteorites! (I do wonder about the use of a metal detector
to find a CM meteorite -- has a single Sutter's Mill
meteorite been found using one?)

--Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] Coloma / Lotus / Sutter Mill Articles

[Rob Matson]

Hi Jim,

In the article of your first link, you'll find the
following confusing sentence:

"It was then he learned that not only did he find the largest
piece to date, but that his find has been identified as the
main mass of the meteor."

I guess the writer wasn't clear on what was meant by "main
mass". For a fresh fall, the so-called "main mass" may
be changing on a daily basis. In the case of Sutter's Mill,
where over 99% of its meteorites will never be found, the
actual main mass of the fall is unlikely to be among the 1%.

Very amusing that someone found gold while looking for
meteorites! (I do wonder about the use of a metal detector
to find a CM meteorite -- has a single Sutter's Mill
meteorite been found using one?)

--Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Jim
Wooddell
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:36 AM
To: desertsunburn
Cc: Meteorite-List
Subject: [meteorite-list] Coloma / Lotus / Sutter Mill Articles

Here are a couple of articles you might enjoy

http://www.mtdemocrat.com/news/striking-it-rich-by-accident/

http://www.mtdemocrat.com/news/coloma-grange-to-hold-discussion-on-meteorite/

Jim

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Re: [meteorite-list] NEO LAST NIGHT

[Rob Matson]

Hi Steve,

> irridium flare? u got to be Fing kidding! It moved from the north
> star to out of site the same as every naked eye neo  posted on
> heavens above.

When you use the acronym "NEO", that means asteroid, not artificial
satellite. As others have pointed out, no way you saw ANY asteroid
naked eye, so you're obviously talking about a manmade satellite.
Given the brightness, and the lack of information about angular
velocity, Iridium flare is a perfectly reasonable guess. If you
want someone to ID what you saw, you just have to provide your
latitude & longitude. It is very easy to ID anything that reaches
negative magnitude.

--Rob

--- On Wed, 5/9/12, Pete Pete  wrote:

> From: Pete Pete 
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEO LAST NIGHT
> To: c...@alumni.caltech.edu, "meteoritelist meteoritelist"

> Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 4:02 PM
>
> My first thought was an iridium flare.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 09:37:37 -0600
> > From: c...@alumni.caltech.edu
> > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEO LAST NIGHT
> >
> > There are no NEOs anywhere near that bright. The only
> orbiting object
> > that bright is the ISS. Most likely, this was a VERY
> near Earth object,
> > like an airplane or weather balloon.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > ***
> > Chris L Peterson
> > Cloudbait Observatory
> > http://www.cloudbait.com
> >
> > On 5/9/2012 9:15 AM, Steve Dunklee wrote:
> > > Saw an near earth object last night @4:45am
> central time. First saw it just below polaris in the
> northern sky with a brightness like Venus at its brightest.
> where it started was obscured by a roof. It continued in an
> easternly direction passing the bottom of Cassiopea and
> faded out just to its left in i think the bottom of ?Draco?
> > > Found no postings on heavens above for an astroid
> passing by so if im first this ones name is Lesa2012.
> > > Cheers
> > > Steve

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[meteorite-list] Fantastic shot of Comet Lovejoy from Western Australia

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

Had to share this fantastic shot of Comet Lovejoy taken
by Australian photographer Colin Legg from near Perth:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=105827&d=1324
518566

A nice Christmas comet for Southern Hemisphere observers!

Cheers,
Rob

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[meteorite-list] OT: Brings new meaning to "I got a rock..."

[Rob Matson]

Charlie Brown would make out well at your house: the one kid
who'd get "a rock" for his costume! I'd take a Yelland over
a Snickers bar any day... :-)  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of
wahlpe...@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 6:44 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Way off topic! Campo Witch and Canyon
ManHalloween Fun

Hi List,

For those of you who enjoy Halloween, here is a link for you!

Sonny & Georgia

http://www.nevadameteorites.com/nevadameteorites/Canyon_man.html

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[meteorite-list] UARS: Reentry may have been over Alberta, Canada

[Rob Matson]

I think we've got a good match -- looks like reentry would have
occurred around 21:20 PDT (24 Sep 04:20 UT) south of Calgary,
Alberta... If true, pieces should be recoverable.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Rob
Matson
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:09 PM
To: 'Meteorite List'
Subject: [meteorite-list] Reentry may have been over Alberta, Canada

Possible reentry over Alberta, Canada. Attempting to confirm town
location is sufficiently close to the predicted reentry track
before I reveal its name... --Rob

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[meteorite-list] Reentry may have been over Alberta, Canada

[Rob Matson]

Possible reentry over Alberta, Canada. Attempting to confirm town
location is sufficiently close to the predicted reentry track
before I reveal its name... --Rob

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[meteorite-list] UARS last seen over Minnesota 3 hours ago...

[Rob Matson]

Apparently also seen over Minnesota one orbit later at 9:55pm CDT
(02:55 UT), but no other visible reports since then... --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com on behalf of Rob Matson
Sent: Fri 9/23/2011 10:46 PM
To: Jeff Kuyken; 'Greg Hupé'; 'Meteorite List'
Subject: [meteorite-list] Last visible UARS observation

Last reliable observation I'm aware of was from Texas at ~1:18 UT
(8:18pm CDT) when it was more or less on time. But the windows of
sunlit visibility are extremely narrow, so it could easily have
survived for hours after the Texas observation.  --Rob

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[meteorite-list] Last visible UARS observation

[Rob Matson]

Last reliable observation I'm aware of was from Texas at ~1:18 UT
(8:18pm CDT) when it was more or less on time. But the windows of
sunlit visibility are extremely narrow, so it could easily have
survived for hours after the Texas observation.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Kuyken [mailto:i...@meteorites.com.au]
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 10:36 PM
To: 'Greg Hupé'; 'Rob Matson'; 'Meteorite List'
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws

Well it should have just skipped over-head and nothing to report from
down-under... that I know of!

Cheers,

Jeff

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Re: [meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws

[Rob Matson]

It's almost certainly down by now... waiting for some confirmation.
Could not observe it from SoCal earlier this evening (overcast)...

--Rob

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Kuyken [mailto:i...@meteorites.com.au]
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 10:36 PM
To: 'Greg Hupé'; 'Rob Matson'; 'Meteorite List'
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws


Well it should have just skipped over-head and nothing to report from
down-under... that I know of!

Cheers,

Jeff

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[meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

Assuming UARS is still in orbit, it is passing just off the
east coast of Australia right now (22:22 PDT)... --Rob

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[meteorite-list] OT: Hurricane info site

[Rob Matson]

An even better site for hurricane tracking information:

http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/?index_region=at

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] Count's Cold Find

[Rob Matson]

RESENDING FROM HOME ACCOUNT. (DON'T ASK; IT'LL ONLY MAKE ME
GO POSTAL.)

- - - - -

Hi Count!

Congrats on your new cold find! I will echo others' comments
that this was the first I'd heard or seen of it. Did you
ever post this to the Met-List before, or just to a limited
subset?

In either case, I must say that I agree that this is one of
those finds that photography does not do it justice: no
substitute for seeing it first hand with a hand lens or
microscope. Kudos for following through in the face of any
discouragement you may have received from others.

I'm curious about the classification; presumably just a
typo on your part:

> Two members of a commercial organization agreed on the
> classification as an OC L5 WO1/.1 S3/5.

No such thing as a weathering grade of W01/.1. Did you mean
W0/1? The shock stage is also a bit unusual; I've seen S3-4
and S3-5, but never S3/5.

Best wishes,
Rob
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Re: [meteorite-list] A sweet PLANETOID by any other name ...

[Rob Matson]

Hi Doug/List,

I know Doug has a special place in his heart for Vesta, as do many
of us who delight in HED meteorites. My only complaint is in the
unnecessary elevation of Vesta to some special naming status beyond
"asteroid" or "minor planet". Why do we feel the need to invent
pigeon holes for the one or two objects that reside at the end of
some arbitrary size continuum? (If we lived on Jupiter or Saturn,
would we say there were four planets, four subplanets, and a bunch
of mini-planetoids?)

If you plot solar system objects on an orbital inclination vs.
LOG(mass) graph, it's hard to make the argument that Vesta deserves
more than an honorable mention:

http://www.spaceobs.com/perso/textes/solarsystem2.gif

(This plot also shows why Pluto -- other than for historical
reasons -- has no business being lumped in with the eight solar
system planets.) Vesta, Ceres, Pallas and Hygiea are far more
like all the other asteroids than they are like any planet. (And
don't forget there are quite a few planetary satellites that are
far more massive than Vesta.)

"Protoplanet" suggests something that is ~nearly~ a planet or was
oh-so-close to becoming one: a woulda, coulda, shoulda planet. I
just think it's a stretch to say Vesta, Ceres or Pallas deserve
that label.

Best wishes,
Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of
MexicoDoug
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:23 PM
To: mojave_meteori...@cox.net; j...@hc.fdn.com;
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A sweet PLANETOID by any other name ...


"just an asteroid"

Awww, come guys,

VIVA PLANETOID VESTA!

  ... Remnant protoplanet is perfectly fine description and so what if 
"just an adjective" is being dropped!  They are not required in the 
English language unless the context is obviously misunderstood.  Agreed 
that it is a little nutty to think Vesta would dynamically grow into a 
planet at this point - but that is only one point of view on what a 
protoplanet is and while a lot of people might insist they know better 
what a protoplanet is because it sounds like a somewhat scientific 
term, the definition is just, well, just not there unless someone wants 
to massage the literature to create an upwelling of passion among 
scientists that have nothing better to do than carve out new 
definitions out of what we all have settled already, and then to 
educate us on our improper usage which they work up in foolish, 
ramrodded, not properly peer reviewed meetings by all interested 
parties.

To NASA's credit, DAWN's stated mission is to make a trip back to the 
point in history by hoping Vesta in fact is a remnant protoplanet in 
the truest form.  So in the context of Dawn, while it may serve NASA's 
publicity, unless someone has an axe to grind against Vesta because of 
the well-deserved passion and euphoria of all of the growing Vestal 
crowd that just wants to have a good time, IMO, NASA is well within its 
bounds.

That is not to say that that for every opinion there is not an equal 
and opposite opinion, but this is not scientific; it is much less 
scientific at least than the "Great Planet Pluto debate" garbage many 
of us got caught up into and that wasn't scientific.  Speaking of self 
serving, if geologists ran the show, there would be no problem calling 
Vesta a planet even.  Astronomers somehow feel that when something is 
far out in space that somehow makes it their exclusive domain.  
However, though astronomy is my first true love, IMO it is time to 
defer to those specializing in planetary geology, especially bodies 
other than earth.  Yeah, I know planetary geologists and astronomers 
are now just like the delocalized mesomeristic electrons in Kekule 
benzene diagrams ;-) Right.

Pure opinions ... Vesta, however, from a classical view is definitely 
not "just an asteroid".  Asteroids are those star-like things that 
don't move much against the background and are most frequently just 
points of light on photographic plates and these days in the domain of 
patient and gifted people like Rob to pick out of noisy backgrounds. 
Vesta is thought to be actively bombarding earth with fragments and is 
brighter than planet Uranus at her best.  So, just to be a little self 
serving myself, I'll get ready to announce a new sale of Tatahouine's 
at great prices, and I think I'll call Vesta a planet.  It'd probably 
be good for marketing, as if no scientist ever marketed his passionate 
work in the history of the age of reason by selecting the words that 
suited them!  Nah.  I love Vesta as a planetoid, but that is just my 2c.

Peace, Vesta has just graduated and is on its way to becoming the most 
studied roundish, formerly volcanic, big object at 2.3 or so AU in the 
Solar system ... my fingers are crosse

[meteorite-list] Vesta is NOT a "protoplanet"

[Rob Matson]

Hi John,

Just a gentle request to resist the urge to parrot NASA's erroneous
(and mildly self-serving) labeling of Vesta as a "protoplanet". Vesta
will never evolve into a planet via accretion, so while one might
have optimistically called it a protoplanet 4+ billion years ago,
that window of opportunity has long since closed. To label it as
such is simply an anacronism; it is an asteroid, and nothing more.

Cheers,
Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of John
Lutzon
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 8:50 PM
To: brian burrer
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is Vesta Mong Nong?

Hello List,

I don't know what i don't know---so:
The latest photo of Vesta shows about 1/2 of this protoplanet which is about
350 miles in diameter
and the largest crater looks approximately 1/10 0f this radius which means
the crater dia. is about 17.5 miles--quite a hit for such a little guy.
 I remember seeing a photo of a much smaller asteroid with an impact crater
of
about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of the whole thing and wonder why it wasn't
cracked in half or completely obliterated.

So, are impact forces mitigated when an object is not in a tightly bound
orbit confiscation and just gets "pushed" rather than crushed?

John

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[meteorite-list] OT: Facebook Meteorite group

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

Apologies for the off-topic post. I'm trying to delete myself from the
Facebook Meteorite group because the number of messages/posts per day
is insane. Of course, navigating through Facebook's pages, I have yet
to find a way to do so. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Rob

P.S.  Given how hard Facebook has made it to leave a group, I will
never join another one.

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[meteorite-list] Video of OK fireball

[Rob Matson]

Hi Stuart,

You mean "multiple" videos. Dirk Ross's website:

http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/03/breaking-news-major-texas-
green.html

Click on the Oklahoma City Sentinel camera video... --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Stuart
McDaniel
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:42 AM
To: MEM; metlist
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] (x) Breaking News - Major TX, OK, AR,
MO,KS, CO, NE Green Fireba...


Where did I miss the video???



Stuart McDaniel
Lawndale, NC
Secr.,
Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society

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[meteorite-list] A "racetrack" meteorite!

[Rob Matson]

Hi again,

I really enjoyed this video, Paul:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o9151C6QcE

Finally:  an actual meteorite at the end of a sliding rock furrow!
That's spectacular!  --Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] New Dry Lake find

[Rob Matson]

Hi Paul,

Long time no chat! What a terrific find -- huge surface/mass
ratio.  Glad to see the Master is still at it!  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Paul
Gessler
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 8:33 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Dry Lake find

Hello all:

It has been a long time since I posted here. Like 10 years. 
Here is a video I made of my latest meteorite hunt.hope you like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmK5WMcshcI

Paul Gessler

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[meteorite-list] Why Are Death Valley's Rocks Moving Themselves? -- not off-topic at all!

[Rob Matson]

Hi Michael,

IMHO, it's definitely ice-rafting. It happens on any desert playa that
is hard enough, receives sufficient winter rains, and gets cold enough
to freeze at night. In California, I've seen the rock furrows at Silver
Dry Lake, Superior Dry Lake, Cuddeback Dry Lake and (most recently)
Coyote Dry Lake. I've also seen them on some Nevada playas as well
as the Alvord Desert in Oregon, and they occur in Arizona, as well.

SoCal got a lot of rain this past December -- so much so that even
after three weeks of dry weather in January the northern third of
Coyote was under water. I've never seen this in the decade I've been
going there, and sure enough I saw rock trails there for the first
time last month.

Bob Verish, Nick Gessler and I coauthored an abstract and presentation
on this subject, and in particular its implications for meteorite
recovery, at the 65th Annual Meeting of the Meteoritical Society
in 2002:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2002M%26PSA..37Q..51G

Cheers,
Rob


-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Michael
Groetz
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 5:24 PM
To: Meteorite List
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT (Sorta...) Why Are Death Valley's Rocks
MovingThemselves?


   Interesting photo- wish I could crawl out of my chair in Ohio and
go check those rocks out.
   I know this has been discussed on the list before.
   Have a good night.
Mike

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/02/18/death-valleys-rocks-moving-racetra
ck-playa/

Why Are Death Valley's Rocks Moving Themselves?

By Philip Schewe

Published February 18, 2011 | Inside Science News Service

Death Valley National Park contains many mysteries, including one of
nature's strangest phenomena: rocks that seem to move around all on
their own.

In the remote, almost totally dry lakebed called Racetrack Playa, some
of the rocks move themselves across the desert floor when people
aren't watching.

Scientists know the rocks move because they leave narrow tracks
trailing behind them, but they haven't actually seen it happen. And
although one can't entirely rule out the possibility of some prank
being played, at least some of the rocks appear to be moving under
natural circumstances.

It doesn't rain often in Racetrack Playa, and when it does the lakebed
can flood. The rocks don't float exactly, but the main explanation for
their movement is that moisture can make the mud on which the rocks
sit more slick, making it easier for high winds to push the rocks
along. Another explanation offered is that the temporary deposit of
water, chilled to form extensive sheets of ice, might help to reflect
and focus the winds, making it easier for the rocks to move.

The winds required to move rocks in this way would seem to be at the
level of 100 mph or more. That's why the rocks are sometimes referred
to as "sailing stones."  They are rare but they have been noticed in
Racetrack Playa and a few other arid places around the world subject
to occasional floods

Ralph Lorenz, a scientist at Johns Hopkins University, offers a new
explanation. The rocks are actually lifted up by the ice, or at least
made more buoyant by the ice, making it easier for the rocks to
migrate. If the rocks are moving about on ice rafts, the ground below
cannot offer as much resistance against their motion and the winds
needed for movement wouldn't have to be as great, he argued.

So why hasn't the motion been observed?

"Movement happens for only tens of seconds, at intervals spaced
typically by several years," said Lorenz. "This would demand
exceptional patience as well as luck."

So, the rocks are probably traveling on the coldest and windiest days
that occur over a period of several years. The most likely time would
be in the very early dawn. Little wonder no one is around to witness
the event.

Lorenz and his colleagues would like to install inexpensive time-lapse
monitoring of the Playa area, using digital cameras. The lakebed is
about 2.5 miles long and 1.25 miles wide. They have also performed
some laboratory tests by blowing on ice-assisted rocks. These simple
tests support the ice-raft hypothesis. The results appear in the
January 2011 issue of the American Journal of Physics.

An additional reason for studying the rocks of Racetrack Playa is that
its qualities resemble those at a drying-up lake on Saturn's moon
Titan. Pictures taken by the Cassini-Huygens mission reveal what look
like river channels, cobblestones, and lake beds or mud flats. Only at
Titan's "Ontario Lacus," as one interesting site is called, the runoff
consists of liquid hydrocarbons, not water. Some pictures even seem to
be showing a "bathtub ring" left by what is probably a drying lake.

One of Lorenz's colleagues, Brian K. Jackson, who works at NASA's
Goddard Space Flight Center, also likes the idea that their research
at Racetrack Playa has a dual purpose.

"It's been exciting trying to solve a mystery tha

[meteorite-list] Happy Birthday, Meteorite Men!

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

First off, happy birthday greetings to Geoff and Steve -- I hope
you both had a fabulous time at your Birthday Bash last night at
the Sky Bar, and that your bar tabs were covered by everyone
else.  ;-)  I really wish I could have made it to Tucson again
this year, but it's been crunch-time at work getting our ground
software operational for our satellite launch in less than six
months. I owe you both a belated birthday cocktail the next time
our paths cross (hopefully in some farflung strewn field!)

I got an e-mail from Bob Verish this morning, informing me that
I won a Harvey Award last night!! I am honored and humbled and
(as I wrote Geoff privately a little while ago) simultaneously
a bit horrified that I couldn't be there in person last night
to accept it. It would have been a special treat to share the
stage with NEO-hunter-extraordinaire, Richard Kowalski, who I
understand also won a Harvey.

As long as I'm on the subject of asteroids, I'd like to share
with the List a little early birthday gift that I presented
Geoff late last year, but decided to wait until his birthday
to announce publically:

MPC 72991 citation:

(132904) Notkin = 2002 RB237
 Geoffrey Notkin (b. 1961) is co-host of the popular Science Channel
series Meteorite Men and author of over 100 articles on meteoritics,
paleontology and the arts.  A discoverer of meteorites on four continents,
he has also made documentaries for Discovery, National Geographic, PBS, the
BBC and the History Channel.

- - - - -

Minor planet dynamical group:  Hilda
Semi-major axis:  3.9982764 a.u.
Inclination: 3.55428 degrees
Eccentricity: 0.1440889
Perihelion distance:  3.422169 a.u.
Aphelion distance:  4.574384 a.u.
Absolute magnitude: 14.4

Astrometry from 89 observations at 6 oppositions spanning 1995-2010
Last observed:  10/9/2010 by station G96
Discovery date : 2002 09 12
Discovery site : Palomar
Discoverer : Matson, R. 

The Hildas are interesting in that they are in a 2:3 orbital resonance
with Jupiter: they complete three orbits for every two Jovian orbits.
The first Hilda asteroid was discovered in 1875. Currently there are
only ~1100 Hildas known, which is less than 1/4 of a percent of all
known asteroids. They are very dark objects, with a mean albedo of
only 0.044 -- similar to cometary nuclei. Based on this albedo and
an absolute magnitude of 14.4, (132904) has an approximate size of
8.4 km. That's a cross-sectional area very close to the size of
Manhattan, with which Geoff should be quite familiar. :-) Assuming
a bulk density of 1.5 g/cm^3, that corresponds to a mass of around
4.6 x 10^11 metric tons -- around a half trillion metric tons!

Congratulations, Geoff, and welcome to the minor planet club!

Best wishes,
Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] How to compute NEXRAD radar hit times

[Rob Matson]

Hi Marc,

Thanks for the fast reply, and confirmation that my interpretation
of how NEXRAD operates was reasonably accurate. It's funny -- up
until a few months ago, I always assumed that when you had double
sweeps at a particular cut angle that they were in indeed separate,
physical sweeps. It was only recently that I began to question that
notion, as I occasionally noticed little or no cloud motion between
consecutive scans at the same cut angle, and yet rather noticeable
changes between consecutive full scans at the same scan angle (i.e.
10 minutes apart versus, say, 1 minute 25 seconds). So -- good to
know that every selectable level-II cut angle is its own sweep.

> It turns out that the time hack for each sweep is embedded in the
> data, but the NOAA software doesn't bother to show it (or so I've
> been told).

I figured it might be -- it's a shame that NOAA's tool doesn't
make use of it.

> The GRlevelX software I use reads the time hack for each cut
> and displays it.

Sounds like it might be time for me to ditch NOAA's Weather and
Climate Toolkit ... especially now that it can no longer read
half the Level-II files out there.

> There can be several seconds' discrepancy between what I
> calculate manually and what the hack reports; I tend to believe
> the embedded time hack because there is additional time needed
> in each change the radar's azimuth between scans and possibly
> to let the radar's computer finish crunching numbers.

I wondered whether the radar could actually instantaneously
jump by one degree in elevation angle each time the cut angle
changed. If there is mechanical steering involved, then obviously
the jump can't be instantaneous. Surely they don't stop the
azimuth sweep while making the elevation angle change, so there
must be a brief transitional period surrounding the instants
when the radar points due north where the elevation angle
smoothly sweeps from one cut angle to the next. This transition
must take even longer at the end of the scan, when the elevation
angle drops all the way back down to 0.5 degrees.

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] How to compute NEXRAD radar hit times

[Rob Matson]

Hi Jim,

> I find the use of Doppler Radar very interesting. I downloaded all
> the NOAA free stuff I could find to view Doppler from my laptop
> using their archived data. However, I can not produce the times
> that are specific to seeing Ash Creek. I was going to use Ash
> Creek as my test to determine if I was doing things right. I am
> not! And, I contacted the Phoenix NWS and they can not help with
> the times. The issue is the time. Only certain specific times are
> archived, so how or where did the data come from for the specific
> time?

You probably DO have the right data -- it's just that you have to
do a bit of extra work to compute the approximate times corresponding
to a particular radar sweep and target location. Strangely, there is
NO information on the web about how to do this -- likely because
meteorologists don't care very much about knowing the scan times
of a particular cloud front.

Here is how I do it. Mind you, I have no confirmation that my
technique is correct, but it is mathematically sensible and is
based on some logical assumtions:

1.  The NEXRAD radar sweep rate (in azimuth) is constant.
2.  The sweep direction is clockwise as viewed from above.
3.  Each elevation scan takes the same amount of time to
complete.
4.  Each full scan starts at the lowest cut angle and ends
at the highest cut angle, with transitions in cut angle
occurring when the radar is transmitting due north.
5.  That the time-tag of each file corresponds to the start
time of the lowest cut angle, and that at that time the
radar is pointing due north.

(I would love to have some confirmation that all of these
assumptions are correct -- Marc Fries can likely confirm or
correct me.)

One remaining uncertainty I have is what physically happens
with the radar when it generates two sweeps at the same cut
angle (e.g. 0.5-degrees and 1.5-degrees are nearly always
swept twice each.) In these cases, does the radar complete
two full revolutions for each cut angle, or are the double
sweeps really just a single sweep, but processed twice (in
software) at different sensitivities? I have a feeling it's
the latter, since I usually see very little movement in
scene features between scans at the same cut angle.

In either case, what you need to do is count up how many
sweeps are done for each full scan -- it's usually at
least 5, and can be quite a bit more when in storm mode.
Divide the time between consecutive full scans (typically
around 10 minutes) by the number of sweeps per scan.

Example:

Image #1 timetag:  02:12:06
Image #2 timetag:  02:21:56
5 sweeps per full scan

(2:21:56 - 2:12:06) = 09:50
09:50 / 5 = 1 minute 58 seconds (1.967 minutes)

This tells you that the radar sweep rate is:

360 degrees / 1.967 minutes = 183.1 degrees/minute, or
3.051 degrees/second.

Now, to determine the time of a specific radar "hit", all
you need is its azimuth (i.e. bearing from the radar),
which is displayed at the bottom of the Toolkit screen
when your cursor is over the hit.

Let's say you see your target in the second sweep out of
five (e.g. the 1.5-degree cut angle) and that it's at
azimuth 227 degrees. Using the above example, the time of
that hit is computed as follows:

02:12:06 + (1 sweep * 1.967 minutes) + (227/360 * 1.967 min)
= 02:12:06 + 1.967 minutes + 1.240 minutes
= 02:15:12

Try this with Ash Creek, and I think you should come very
close to the time that Marc Fries did.

Good luck!
Rob

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[meteorite-list] OT: Tucson shooting

[Rob Matson]

I do hope our many List members from the Tucson area are
all safe and uninjured following the massacre outside a
Tucson grocery store today. 6 people were killed (including
a 9-year-old girl), and at least another 12 injured, including
U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords who was shot in the
head and is in critical condition... :-(  --Rob

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shooting/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=
BN1

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Re: [meteorite-list] NASA finds extra-terrestrial amino-acids in Sudan meteorites

[Rob Matson]

Thanks, Mark -- yes, that's a key bit of missing info! :-)  The
question remains, which particular petrology(ies) of Almahata
Sitta contained the amino acids? Perhaps it wasn't in a ureilitic
sample, but one of the main other breccia constituents, in which
case the amino acids wouldn't necessarily have had the ureilite
temperature history.

Thanks also to Martin, Anne and others who provided links to
more scientific papers -- perhaps the answer to my question
will be found among them.

Happy New Year, All!  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]on Behalf Of Mark
Hammergren
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 1:59 PM
To: Mike Hankey; meteoritelist; Robert D.Matson
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA finds extra-terrestrial amino-acids
inSudan meteorites


The article is missing a description of the genesis of the asteroidal
material. Almahata Sitta is a ureilite (among other things), which cooled
from very high temperatures (in excess of 1100C) during its formation.

-- Mark

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[meteorite-list] OT: Some humor for your holidays

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

At the slight risking of offending any Scrooges w/o a sense of humor,
I forward the following Christmas observation.

Happy Christmas/Festivus/Hanukkah/Kwanzaa/Winter Solstice to All!

May Santa put a nice lump of coal (a CI/CO/CK/CM/etc. qualifies!)
in your stocking...

--Rob

- - - - - -

The Illegal Immigrant Amongst Us


Every December 24, the illegal immigrant known as Santa Claus crosses
the border without a passport, carrying concealed packages, which he
presumably sneaks into the U.S. in order to avoid tariffs and inspection
by Customs. What's really in that huge sack? Homeland Security has never
asked and habitually turns a blind eye to this invasion!

Look at how this international fugitive gets around: Santa Claus flies
in a custom-built sleigh that hasn't been inspected by the FCC nor
cleared by Air Traffic Control. He flies beneath radar and never files a
flight plan. He has no pilot's license, and he flies in the dark of
night with just one tiny bioluminescent red light to guide him - a clear
violation of safety regulations!

Imagine those pulling Santa's heavy sleigh: Eight tiny reindeer, a
protected species being put to hard labor. None of these reindeer have
their required inoculations, and Santa's never gotten these
genetically-engineered animals registered and licensed. He keeps them
penned outside his workplace in below-freezing temperatures, in a clear
violation of animal protection laws. Where is the ASPCA while all this
is going on?

And the conniving, crooked Claus harms more than just animals; he's
hurting hard-working people, too. "Santa's Workshop" is a clever
cover-up for a sweatshop, where non-union employees make less than
minimum wage and apparently get no overtime holiday pay. Add the fact
that no one has ever been allowed to inspect the place, and it's obvious
that you have a Third-World elf-exploitation operation.

In addition, he maintains a data base of personally-identifying
information about our children! Names, addresses, ages, photos,
behavioral tendencies. Incredibly, parents appear to be complicit in
perpetuating this cultural phenomenon; Child Protection Services has yet
to be informed of these offenses.

The bottom line is that Santa has been allowed to maintain a monopoly
over a massive toy distribution industry; he's cornered the Christmas
Eve gift market. Santa dares to give away his products for free in a
sinister attempt to crush all competition - just like Microsoft's
Internet Explorer. There has been no Antitrust Lawsuit, yet it's clear
that Santa Claus is the "Bill Gates of Christmas."

However, it might be tough sledding for Jolly St. Nick this Christmas,
if someone points out this oversight to our legislators. After all,
Santa Claus is honest, reliable, and gives us something to look forward
to every December 25th. Considering the gifts bequeathed to us on April
15th, it's a Christmas Miracle that Santa's still in business.


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Re: [meteorite-list] Carbonaceous Comet

[Rob Matson]

Hi Eric/List,

It is still unknown whether main belt asteroid (596) Scheila is a
long-dormant main-belt comet, or if it was simply an impact victim
by a much smaller (and therefore uncatalogued) asteroid. Actually,
these two hypotheses are not mutually exclusive, but I tend to
favor the latter explanation, given that Scheila has been observed
for a century and never exhibited comet-like behavior in the past.
Furthermore, one would expect a cometary outburst to occur closer
to perihelion, which Scheila won't reach for another 17 months.

It would not be the first time (even this year!) that a collision
caused a minor planet to temporarily appear comet-like:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/science/asteroid-20100202.html

The spectral studies of Scheila's coma so far indicate dust rather
than volatiles, lending further support to the impact hypothesis.
The morphology of the evolving coma may provide clues as to its
origin, and continued spectral analysis of the coma may reveal
ices, which would tip the scales back in favor of the dormant
comet theory (though quite possible a dormant comet that was
HIT by a much smaller uncatalogued object).

--Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] eclipse photos

[Rob Matson]

Resending from home e-mail account:

- - - - -

Hi Mike,

The 3 o'clock position (3rd image down the right side) of
your composite picture here:



is one of the better lunar eclipse pictures I've seen for showing
both the umbral and penumbral terminators simultaneously. This is
not an easy image to capture since there is such a huge change in
brightness between the sunlit, penumbral and umbral regions of
the Moon's disk.  Nicely done!  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com on behalf of Mike Hankey
Sent: Tue 12/21/2010 7:12 PM
To: meteoritelist; Global Meteor Observing Forum
Subject: [meteorite-list] eclipse photos

I had a great eclipse observing and photography session last night,
but boy am I tired.

Photographing an eclipse is a real challenge, but luckily the clouds
stayed away for most of the night and everything came together pretty
well.

I uploaded some of the photos here:

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/lunar/lunar-eclipse-december-21st-2010/

I had a fish eye camera working the whole night, hoping to catch a
meteor, but didn't get that lucky.

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[meteorite-list] "Missile" deja vu

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

For the few remaining people that have lingering doubts about
the cause of the November 8th southern California mystery contrail,
I invite you to watch this YouTube video of a remarkably similar
event seen from Key West, Florida, on New Years Eve 2008:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sVmjpDZLN0

Best,
Rob

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[meteorite-list] OT: candidate for SoCal contrail

[Rob Matson]

Just to try to close the book on this, here's my candidate for the
source of the November 8th contrail:



Boeing 757-200 from Honolulu to Phoenix flew right over Catalina
Island at 37,000 feet at the time in question.

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] Forwarded: Not a missile -- a jet contrail

[Rob Matson]

Hi Count,

Quite a few pieces of evidence against a missile launch:

1. Military says they didn't launch anything
2. No NOTAM submitted (in heavily congested int'l airport corridor)
3. SLBMs never launch from coastal California waters
4. No upper atmospheric, differential wind shear of the plume
5. Contrail grew far too slowly for a missile launch
6. Contrail did not persist after sunset (no twilight glow)
7. No corresponding high-speed, high-altitude object on radar

--Rob

-Original Message-
From: Count Deiro [mailto:countde...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tue 11/9/2010 11:37 PM
To: Richard Kowalski; meteorite list; Matson, Robert D.
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Not a missile -- a jet contrail

Hello Richard and Listoids,

The subject contrail/combustion byproduct/condensation trail was not made by
a turbojet powered aircraft. There is only one trail and it displays a
massive constant volume atypical of conventional multi-engine aircraft which
display a separate condensation trail from each engine. High altitude can
make an airliner's condensation trails look like a single artifact, but when
seen closer you easily can count the engines by the individual trails.

The volume and density of this trail belie any water condensed trail I have
seen from an aircraft. The trail of a rocket powered X15 isn't anywhere near
as massive as this dude.. In my learned opinion, this missle was powered by
a single (non-staging) big ass, solid fuel rocket engine. It looks like your
standard submarine launched ICBM going down range to our Pacific Test Area.

Did you see the helicopter hovering in an observing position?

Best,

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536

P.S. In another life I was the Director of Aviation Facilities for the
Hughes Tool Co. and an ATP rated aviator.

-Original Message-
>From: Richard Kowalski 
>Sent: Nov 9, 2010 6:54 PM
>To: meteorite list , " Robert
D.Matson" 
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Not a missile -- a jet contrail
>
>OK
>
>I'd like to see the third one i more detail, but its probably a contrail.
>
>
>--
>Richard Kowalski
>Full Moon Photography
>IMCA #1081

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[meteorite-list] OT: the JSE

[Rob Matson]

By the way, the Journal of Scientific Exploration is hardly a "real
journal",
so citing it as evidence for the reality of dowsing is a bit of a circular
argument. Most of the members are strong believers in the reality of ESP,
astrology, psychokinesis, reincarnation, and similar topics, so the nature
of the "peer review" at that journal is hardly objective or neutral.

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] OT: Dowsing is real, but exoplanets are dubious?!

[Rob Matson]

Hi Phil,

> Your last statement is not true. It's very hard to find scientific
> studies involving anything even remotely connected to the "paranormal"
> (gasp!). Look into the German studies cited here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ADowsing

I read that abstract earlier in the week. If there were even a half-
dozen such pier-reviewed papers, I would still consider it rather weak
evidence given the magnitude of the importance of such a discovery if
it were true. A sixth sense is an extraordinary claim -- where is the
extraordinary evidence?

What I wonder is why you don't have the same level of skepticism
toward dowsing that you do toward black holes and exoplanets (which
have ABUNDANT evidence in favor of their existence). Particularly in
the case of exoplanets, the only legitimate reason for your skepticism
would be personal unfamiliarity with the rather bullet-proof science.
Exoplanets are just as real as planets in our own solar system.

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] OT: Einstein on dowsing

[Rob Matson]

Hi Jeffrey,

> I'm skeptical that Einstein ever said this.  I have just searched
> the Einstein archive at

> http://www.alberteinstein.info/

> for the word "dowsing" and did not find a single hit.
> Maybe he said it, but without a real citation with date and page
> number, or a facsimile of the letter - I'm very dubious.

Einstein didn't say it, but it does appear he wrote it in a
letter in February 1946. For context, Mr. Peisach sought Einstein's
views on his (Peisach's) deceased father's papers. Peisach senior
was a physician in Germany who had learned to use a dowsing rod
for diagnostic purposes and had become interested in the influence
of radiation from water and mineral veins on health. Here was
Einstein's initial reply (translation courtesy of Tell Ehardt and
the German Department at Villanova University):

4 February 1946

Mr. Herman E. Peisach 
32 Flax Hill Road
South Norwalk, Conn.

Dear Sir:

I am a novice in this field that we are discussing. However, I would
like to have you send me the reports. Even if I have no connection with
scientists in this field, a recommendation from me could perhaps be
effective, so that this subject could receive more attention.

Very truly yours,
A. Einstein

- - - -

After Peisach forwarded the reports to Princeton, he received the
following reply:

Dear Mr. Peisach:  15 February 1946

I read with great interest the reports from your father and I think
that they deserve attention. To publish them in the daily press would
have little effect. However, if you send these reports to a medical
journal, you will have to re-write some of the other aspects that
are not really pertinent to this matter.

I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as they do
astrology, as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction
this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument
which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors
which are unknown to us at this time. 

That the same circumstances can bring forth nervous difficulties in
breathing appears entirely plausible. However, I do not think there
is any connection with the occurrence of cancer. This latter
connection, if true, would not be easy to prove with supporting
statistics.

If you submit the carefully revised reports to a medical journal you
may attach a copy of my letter, so that this matter will receive the
attention I feel it deserves.

Very truly yours,
A. Einstein

- - - - -

I firmly believe that Einstein recognized that there was nothing
special about the material construction of the dowsing device, be
it metal, forked sticks, pendulums, what-have-you. To suggest that
~only~ metallic dowsing rods work actually undermines a dowsing
proponent's argument. *Any* device that magnifies the dowser's
minute muscle twitches (whether voluntary or subconscious) will
suffice.

When people say they believe in dowsing, what they are really
saying is that they believe in a human sixth sense -- for instance,
the ability to detect minute fluctuations in electromagnetic
fields. I think it would be very exciting if it could be
conclusively shown that some individuals can repeatably
demonstrate such an ability in a scientifically controlled and
statistically valid experiment. That, to this day, no one has
succeeded in doing so should at the very least raise an eyebrow
in those who are so sure that dowsing really works.

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] Meteoroid entry angle

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

Playing message catch-up after 10 days' vacation/biz trip in Maui.
Saw John's message below, and thought I'd make a small correction
to a common misconception about meteoroid entry angles.

"Gilbert and Barringer both realized that 45 degree impacts are
the most probable trajectories for meteoritic material."

I find many people make this mistake in solving all kinds of
problems that depend on spherical geometry. In *two* dimensions,
if the range of possible angles is from 0 to 90 degrees, and
the angle is uniformly random, then the mean angle is of course
45 degrees: the midpoint of the uniform distribution. In three
dimensions, this is no longer true.

If you look at a globe, it is easy to see why. Compare the
surface area of the earth from the equator up to 45 degrees
north latitude with the surface area from 45 N up to the North
Pole. The latter is a much smaller area. In fact, for a sphere,
the surface area from the equator up to *30* degrees north
latitude is the same as the area from 30N to 90N. Similarly,
the average entry angle for a meteoroid coming from a uniformly
random direction is 30 degrees from horizontal.

That said, the entry angle distribution is not quite uniformly
random because earth's gravity bends all trajectories slightly
toward the center of the earth. This has the effect of making
all entry angles a little bit steeper than they would be if
gravity didn't play a part.

Bottom line is that the average entry angle for a meteoroid is
a little bit more than 30 degrees, but definitely not as much
as 45 degrees. To answer Eric's question below about what's
considered shallow vs. steep, I consider any entry angle less
than 20 deg to be "shallow", anything greater than 40 deg to
be "steep", and anything from 20-40 (which is about 30% of all
meteoroids) to be average.

--Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]on Behalf Of Kashuba
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:06 AM
To: bernd.pa...@paulinet.de; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteor Crater Shape and Entry Angle


Eric, Bernd, Sterling, List,

David Kring of LPL put together a great guidebook for the 2007 MetSoc tour
of the crater (150 pages).  He is Gene Shoemakers successor as advisor to
the Barringer family.  He and family members lead the tour.  Carolyn
Shoemaker was there too.

Chapter 9. "Trajectory" begins and ends thusly:

The trajectory of the impacting asteroid is another issue of considerable
debate and still unresolved.
Historically, circular plan views of impact craters confounded many
investigators who assumed a circular
crater requires a vertical impact. They wondered why more craters are not
elliptical. Gilbert and
Barringer both realized that 45 degree impacts are the most probable
trajectories for meteoritic material.
Yet Gilbert, like many of his contemporaries, mistakenly thought a 45 degree
impact produces an oval
crater (Hoyt, 1987). Barringer, on the other hand, realized that a 45 degree
impact will produce a round
crater (Hoyt, 1987). Despite this insight, Barringer, like Gilbert,
initially assumed that the northern
Arizona impact had been vertical or nearly vertical and that the asteroid
was buried beneath the center of
the crater floor.

When extensive drilling did not locate a main mass beneath the crater floor
and instead only
produced traces of the projectile, Barringer began to consider other
options. He had already noted several
features that seem to have a directional symmetry.

- snip -

More recently, techniques similar to those of Sutton were applied by
Holliday et al. (2005) to the
Odessa impact site. They estimated the Odessa craters were produced
approximately 63,000 years ago.
Although the ages of Barringer and Odessa craters are still not precisely
known, these approximate ages
suggest Odessa formed earlier, with the caveat that the Barringer crater may
be older than 49,000 yrs.
(See discussion in Chapter 11). Thus, the two impact events may not be
directly related and may not have
any bearing on the issue of trajectory.

Nonetheless, several other potential indicators of trajectory survive (and
even the Odessa connection
might be revived). Unfortunately, these indicators cannot be reconciled at
the present time and I think it
fair to conclude that the trajectory of the impacting asteroid that produced
Barringer Crater remains
uncertain.

Chapter 9:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/books/barringer_crater_guidebook/chapte
r_9.pdf

Whole "guidebook":
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/books/barringer_crater_guidebook/index.
shtml


Regards,

- John

Ontario, California


-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
bernd.pa...@paulinet.de
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 3:26 AM
To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Crater Sha

Re: [meteorite-list] Shielding of the Moon by earth

[Rob Matson]

Hi Melanie,

> I see, but the other side of the moon does look a lot more
> heavily cratered than that "shielded" by Earth...

I suspect this has more to do with the relative ages of the
surfaces than the cratering rates. Maria are nearly absent
from the lunar farside, and the nearside Maria have erased
the evidence of earlier impact cratering.  --Rob

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[meteorite-list] Shielding of the Moon by earth

[Rob Matson]

Hi Melanie/List,

The side of the Moon that faces the Earth is only ~barely~ shielded
by the earth compared to the side facing away from Earth. In fact,
I would be surprised if the difference is even detectable as far as
cratering density. From the Moon's surface, the earth subtends
about 1.9 degrees, so a Full Earth looks over 14 times larger (in
"area") than does a Full Moon from earth. While that may seem large,
the amount of angular space shielded by the earth is tiny -- about
one part in 7000 for any portion of the lunar hemisphere with a
view of the earth. In other words, square mile for square mile,
if the earth had the Moon's vacuum, its surface would get hit just
as often as the Moon's.  --Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] Nemesis

[Rob Matson]

Hi Steve,

> I Just read "Rocks from space" and in the end of the book they mention
> Nemesis in the Oort cloud as being a red dwarf with a cycle of 26 to
> 30 million years.

The theory that the sun has a long period, highly eccentric, red dwarf
or brown dwarf companion is based on a ~perceived~ periodicity in
earth's mass extinction record. From a strictly dynamical standpoint,
it is a rather unlikely theory, IMO, since the dwarf orbit's required
semi-major axis is so great that it would be subject to perturbations
by nearby stars. In other words, the orbit would not be stable.

Thanks to WISE (the Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer), we shall
soon be able to confirm or discard this theory. WISE is sensitive
enough to detect any red dwarf or brown dwarf out to distances
an order of magnitude greater than Nemesis' greatest possible
distance. Even a Jupiter-mass object would be detectable at a
distance of 1 light year, while a three-Jupiter-mass object
would be detectable at 10 light years' distance.

Realistically, if Nemesis exists it is almost certainly not a red
dwarf as it would already have been discovered. A brown dwarf is
the largest realistic candidate, and some Nemesis proponents
theorize that its mass is only 3-5 times that of Jupiter -- too
small to even be categorized as a brown dwarf. (Brown dwarf
minimum size is 13 Jupiter masses -- the minimum mass to fuse
deuterium.)

So far WISE has discovered two unambiguous brown dwarfs (and a
number of brown dwarf candidates), although their distances are
not yet known. Follow-up measurements must be made by other
instruments to measure their parallaxes, but I suspect these
first two are more than 3 light years away (too distant to be
Nemesis candidates).

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting in Mexico: DON'T DO IT.

[Rob Matson]

Bill opined:

> I've spent a lot of time in Mexico. The best produce, fruits and veg,
> on the continent. It's kind of like the way the US was 50 years ago.
> People there won't settle for inferior goods like we do now. Never
> had a problem. I guess I don't watch the news enough.

No, evidently you don't. If you're literally "dying" for a good
tomato, then I suppose Juarez or Tijuana would be a great place to
visit. The MetList is no place to discuss international politics or
socioeconomics, but it ~is~ certainly appropriate to discuss issues
related to meteorite recovery in foreign countries, including the
risks in doing so. There are a number of countries in the world that
one would be very ill-advised to visit under any circumstances, let
alone meteorite hunting. Mexico is ~relatively~ safe in popular
tourist destinations (e.g. Cabo San Lucas, Cancun, Mazatlan, and
to a lesser degree Puerto Vallarta). Unfortunately, these are not
the areas where meteorites are likely to be found.

--Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] Any irons/stony-irons linked to known stones?

[Rob Matson]

Hi Melanie,

> Are any chondrites and/or achondrites suspected as originating
> from the same parent body as any known irons and stony-irons?

Yes. Winonaites and IAB group irons are suspected as having a
common parent body due to similarities between winonaites and
the silicate inclusions of IAB irons.  --Rob

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[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - August 29, 2010

[Rob Matson]

Now THAT is a cool display, Rob!  Very creative!  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com on behalf of Michael
Johnson
Sent: Sat 8/28/2010 7:16 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - August
29,2010

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/August_29_2010.html

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[meteorite-list] Another flash on Jupiter

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

Yet another confirmed flash on Jupiter:

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/home/101264994.html

Whatever it was, like the June 4th event earlier this year, no
residual trace (from UV to near-IR) has been found in the Jovian
clouds in the hours following the event.  --Rob

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[meteorite-list] Martian vs. Lunar meteorites

[Rob Matson]

Hi Al,

> If you pair up the lunar and martian meteorites, you will only 
> find 60 plus specimens that are unique of the lunar material
> and 80 plus of the martian.

I'd like to see a listing of both. By my count (as of a month
or so ago) there were 55 "unpaired" Martian meteorites. Perhaps
some of the mismatch (80+ vs. 55) is due to pairing uncertainties
among three of the large "suspected" Martian pairing groups:

1. DaG 476/489/670/735/876/975/1037/1051/ + at least 3 more
2. NWA 2975/2986/2987/4766/4783/4857/4864/4878/4880/4930/5140/
   5214/5219/5313/5366
3. SaU 005/008/051/060/090/094/120/125/130/150/ + at least one more

Depending on who is deciding which meteorites are paired, there
will be variability on how many unique Martian meteorites there
are.

I'd like to take this opportunity to say that NWA 6162 (no known
pairings) is the most impressive of ALL Martian meteorites that
I've seen out of Northwest Africa. It is very fresh, and priced
quite modestly compared to anything comparable, especially
considering its miniscule TKW (89 grams).

--Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] Rosetta Flyby of Asteroid 21 Lutetia

[Rob Matson]

Hi Sterling/Jason/List,

Back in 2008 I worked closely with Jim Baer to help refine
the masses of many of the largest asteroids by searching for
pre-encounter archive imagery of "target asteroids". The technique
is a pretty clever one: whenever any asteroid (usually it's
a small one) has a very close encounter with a large asteroid
whose mass you'd like to compute, the small asteroid's orbit
will be gravitationally perturbed by an amount that depends on
the closest approach distance, the velocity of the encounter,
and the mass of the large asteroid. Since the encounter velocity
and closest approach can be accurately determined, the amount of
the deflection can be used to solve for the mass.

(21) Lutetia was one of the asteroids for which I submitted
archive astrometry for a number of target asteroids. I was able to
find and measure over 130 positions in the archive images of six
target asteroids: 11362, 36409, 38772, 56641, 60272 and 61507.
I don't happen to recall if my astrometry helped further refine
Lutetia's mass or not, but my efforts *did* refine the masses
for quite a few large asteroids:  (2) Pallas, (3) Juno, (4) Vesta,
(6) Hebe, (7) Iris, (8) Flora, (9) Metis, (10) Hygiea,
(11) Parthenope, (13) Egeria, (15) Eunomia, (16) Psyche and
(19) Fortuna. The work for each asteroid is quite labor-intensive,
and usually the deflections are too small to get a good estimate
of the mass. But the occasional successes made the work quite
rewarding, and I expect Jim and I will resume this work at
some point in the future when our schedules allow.

--Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com]on Behalf Of
Sterling K. Webb
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:06 PM
To: Jason Utas; Meteorite-list
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rosetta Flyby of Asteroid 21 Lutetia


The density of Lutetia in the most recent
determination is 5.55 +/- 0.88, or between
4.67 and 6.43. Complete data can be found at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jimbaer1/astmass.txt

The dimensions of Lutetia have been calculated
by some as 115 x 96 x 80 and by (more) others as
120 x 100 x 80, but whatever way you slice the
data it comes to a volume equivalent to a 95.76
kilometer sphere.

There have been two reported stellar occultations
by Lutetia, observed from Malta in 1997 and Australia
in 2003, with only one chord each, roughly agreeing
with IRAS measurements of a spherical shape roughly
~100 km.. See:
"Tedesco, E.F., P.V. Noah, M. Noah, and S.D. Price.
IRAS Minor Planet Survey. IRAS-A-FPA-3-RDR-IMPS-V6.0.
NASA Planetary Data System, 2004."
http://sbn.psi.edu/pds/resource/imps.html

At this size and the given flyby distance, the image of
Lutetia should subtend about 90 arc-minutes. I expect
plenty of detail. )The Steins image was 60 pixels across,
yet 23 craters were identified and a chain of seven
craters in a row.)

"There are various indications of a non-metallic
surface: a flat, low frequency spectrum similar to that
of carbonaceous chondrites and C-type asteroids and
not at all like that of metallic meteorites, a low radar
albedo unlike the high albedos of strongly metallic
asteroids like 16 Psyche, evidence of hydrated materials
on its surface, abundant silicates, and a thicker regolith
than most asteroids."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_Lutetia
(lots of references)

Oddly, its axis is tilted over at 85-89 degrees, so it rotates
(in 6+ hours) on its side like Uranus. It has been whacked
but good. Did somebody say "breccia"?

Lutetia was discovered on November 15, 1852 by Hermann
Goldschmidt from the balcony of his apartment in Paris.

Now, THAT'S the way to do science!

Maurice, more Champagne, s'il vous plait!


Sterling K. Webb

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