[meteorite-list] test
empty __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds.
Oh no. The science wars all over again (http://www.math.tohoku.ac.jp/~kuroki/Sokal/science_wars.html)! Come on, I love that we can touch space, but supplying the pasttime should not eclipse the pasttime. We don't really all need to have every little stone. When does the buying stop? --- "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > No "laws" need be invoked. The process is an > endogenous one. > > I have just completed an analysis of Thaddeus' > last 37 (a prime number) posts and have graphed > their > frequency against their cross product of their > fractal > dimension and the inverse of their entropy. I have > discovered a series of increases in his posting > frequency > which doubles with a value that increasingly > approaches > that of every 4.6692 reiterations. > > That number is the Feigenbaum constant, of > course, > and reveals their content to be a one-dimensional > chaos > with a period-doubling attractor. Shortly, their > fractal > dimension will fall to zero, their entropy will rise > to infinity, > and their source, the hypothetical Thaddeus Entity, > will > undergo quantum "evaporation." > > > Sterling K. Webb > > - Original Message - > From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:09 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that > summarizes Peru'sscientific > minds. > > > On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:01:04 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > > >WOW, it was a cartoon. I see it as perfect, showing > >Peru's scientists as being confused about the need > to > >preserve their one and only meteorite fall from > >disentigrating. The Third Reich never really > entered > >my mind. > >You have some serious issues, please deal with > >them.Michael Farmer > > I invoke Godwin's Law on Thaddeus. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law > > (Also Sturgeon's Law) > __ > > > - Original Message - > From: "Thaddeus Besedin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] self-rightous posturing, > African Bias,and "The > Pearl" > > > Without citation, I'm self-righteous (or self > confirming), but a book by Steinbeck, called "The > Pearl," is appropriate for the problem of inequality > and prejudice that the meteorite trade can > perpetuate > by affecting prices and wrinkling reputations. > You guys all think I'm on one by now; some people > like > Mike or myself are vocal about things we may later > regret. My problem, it seems, is premature > inclusion > of misleading non-information as premises for > argument > (I'm a victim of continental philosophy), but > scientific facts, like carbon dates or climate > models, > are NEVER distorted in my posts. My difficulty is > with > legal citation, it seems. So, facts and some > fallacy, > but not shams and lies... . > > WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE oF INFORMATION, > though. > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ... summarizes the death of a thread
Webb > > > > > > >- Original Message - > > >From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: > > >Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:09 AM > > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that > summarizes Peru'sscientific > > >minds. > > > > > > > > >On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:01:04 -0700 (PDT), you > wrote: > > > > > > >WOW, it was a cartoon. I see it as perfect, > showing > > > >Peru's scientists as being confused about the > need to > > > >preserve their one and only meteorite fall from > > > >disentigrating. The Third Reich never really > entered > > > >my mind. > > > >You have some serious issues, please deal with > > > >them.Michael Farmer > > > > > >I invoke Godwin's Law on Thaddeus. > > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law > > > > > >(Also Sturgeon's Law) > > >__ > > > > > > > > >- Original Message - > > >From: "Thaddeus Besedin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: > > >Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM > > >Subject: [meteorite-list] self-rightous > posturing, African Bias,and "The > > >Pearl" > > > > > > > > >Without citation, I'm self-righteous (or self > > >confirming), but a book by Steinbeck, called "The > > >Pearl," is appropriate for the problem of > inequality > > >and prejudice that the meteorite trade can > perpetuate > > >by affecting prices and wrinkling reputations. > > >You guys all think I'm on one by now; some people > like > > >Mike or myself are vocal about things we may > later > > >regret. My problem, it seems, is premature > inclusion > > >of misleading non-information as premises for > argument > > >(I'm a victim of continental philosophy), but > > >scientific facts, like carbon dates or climate > models, > > >are NEVER distorted in my posts. My difficulty is > with > > >legal citation, it seems. So, facts and some > fallacy, > > >but not shams and lies... . > > > > > >WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE oF > INFORMATION, though. > > > > > > > > >__ > > >Meteorite-list mailing list > > >Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] self-rightous posturing, African Bias, and "The Pearl"
Without citation, I'm self-righteous (or self confirming), but a book by Steinbeck, called "The Pearl," is appropriate for the problem of inequality and prejudice that the meteorite trade can perpetuate by affecting prices and wrinkling reputations. You guys all think I'm on one by now; some people like Mike or myself are vocal about things we may later regret. My problem, it seems, is premature inclusion of misleading non-information as premises for argument (I'm a victim of continental philosophy), but scientific facts, like carbon dates or climate models, are NEVER distorted in my posts. My difficulty is with legal citation, it seems. So, facts and some fallacy, but not shams and lies... . WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE oF INFORMATION, though. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds.
Thanks, Darren I'm not debating this. I could have said "Visigoths," or "Vandals" or "Seljuks of Rum." Imapct was it. --- Darren Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:01:04 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > > >WOW, it was a cartoon. I see it as perfect, showing > >Peru's scientists as being confused about the need > to > >preserve their one and only meteorite fall from > >disentigrating. The Third Reich never really > entered > >my mind. > >You have some serious issues, please deal with > >them.Michael Farmer > > I invoke Godwin's Law on Thaddeus. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law > > (Also Sturgeon's Law) > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Peru news - finders keepers
You are driven by an interest in the material, surely, but I think here that you may not have been translating subtleties of context here as I may have intend to communicate. I strictly compare Mike's attitude to that of a trafficker in contraband, except for his hesitation to control his public declarations of his ethnic contempt. To comment on how "value" can become at all, in the pursuit of accumulation of a natural object, which may have required more or less labor to locate than an equally-valued object, I emphasize that, among all goods and services, no effort to strip the veneer of commercialization from the fetishized object of consumption need be made. When meteorite tokens are on the mind, it is obvious that this list and few other arenas can alone be held responsible for value-generation by creating demand without campaign advertising and branding. Desire to buy is not just some emanation. We demand far beyond base consumption as a gesture of identity-building, and to privately indulge in waste, among other reasons. It is necessary, then, to manipulate potential buyers that have only periodic demand for a substitute product, say car restoration supplies, kites, video games, etc. To back up with citation something like the well-known, historically recorded aspirations of Nazi Germany to become like their predecessor, e.g. the Holy Roman Empire, is redundant. Trafficking can also be constituted indirectly, with a conniving nod to the violators in other places in the world where sources of material are abundant, yet enforcement is fraught with corruption, a situation fortuitously taken advantage of by dealers. If envy is the reason that authorities arrest people in the situation that Mike finds himself in, then Mike would be dead and gone by now. I munch hummus, by the way. Do you goose-step? I am not equating Mike himself with traffickers, but escaping from a country to avoid a possible arrest that cannot be verified to have possibly, with any certainty,to have potentially occurred at all, and with many others seemingly "escaping" with no concern or fear for some sort of threat to their freedom, is inconsistent with innocence for every transaction that Mike has been involved in. He knew that the police had confiscated property. Property must remain as evidence. This is tantamount to buying cocaine from a corrupt cop responsible for inventory of an evidence locker. Germany has laws guaranteeing landowners their gifts from the sky; disparity of political and economic conditions is such that no comparison can be made to the conduct of a legal system in another sovereign country. Finally, laws should not alone dictate a maximum degree of ethical self-restraint. -Thaddeus --- Martin Altmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't know, may you explain, why you ask from > meteorite dealers a higher > moral standard or ethical behaviour than from the > fastfood chain, where > you're munching your burgers, the power authorities, > which are heating your > home, the carmaker, where you bought your car from, > our butcher, baker, > supermarket on the end of the food supply industry > chain, where you're > buying your food? > > Additionally the list policies require, that you can > back your statements > with facts. > If you bring the meteorite dealers in context with > looters, traffickers, > thieves, > Then please be so kind to quote here word by word > the laws regarding > meteorites > of those countries, wherefrom meteorites are coming, > which are dealt. > > It's so easy to point with the finger always on > others and to voice > allegations without having to back them. > > Here you have a list of all states > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states > > Please add to each state the quotation of its > legislation concerning > meteorites (note that in federally organized states, > there might be > individual laws for each federal state). > > Get started, do it. > If not, we simply won't allow, that you continue to > criminalize the > collectorship, dealership and the scientists. > > Thanks > Annoyed Martin > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru'sscientific minds.
I was using a familiar example. I would have said "Holy Roman Empire," which was, according to the idea advanced comparing the theft of a comic to barbarian theft of Roman Culture, appropriate. The Holy Roman Empire would be the "Second Reich." I'm also not saying that Germany hads stolen Rome. But "Roma," as a an ideal model (at least in appearance) for an ideological superstructure, had many takers after Constantinople became the de facto political center of the Roman Empire. Everything with Mike is usually OK, and then comes the bull___ attempts at humor, from a "friend," or macho stabs at everybody else, living as they do in their own country, handling their own affairs differently than we do here, I guess. It's not anti-American contempt for G.I. Mike, it's anti-jingo-consumerization that tinges my ordinarily controlled outbursts of language. --- Andreas Gren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thaddeus, > I have to say I was not able to laugh over the > cartoon. But I can understand Mike Farmer is pissed > of how he was welcome in Peru. > Anyway I know Mike as a very liberal American, one > with open hart and mind ,going to places all over > the world where meteorites have been fallen. So > Theaddeus I cant really follow your argumentation, > but where do you take the "third Reich" from ? > You don't know what you are talking about. The third > Reich is the darkest chapter in German and European > History .I for my self started with 8 years to read > about the third Reich and the second World war.It > was hard to realized as Child that this all started > in my country , so I educated my self in third reich > , for knowing how to avoid a fourth one. So please > dont talk over the third reich as a phrase , it was > real and it was horrible and has nothing to do with > making an offensive Cartoon. > > Andi > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] traffickers, dealers, and GREEDY traffickers
There is a difference. One country's trafficker is anothers logistic agent. Attention-whore traffickers are another matter. I don't buy any more, so I really don't have any qualms about calling it as I see it. Yes, I have purchased from Farmer, so that makes me a John. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Apology for use of modified four-letter word that we know and love
Yeah. I'm off the meds and a sailor at heart. -Thaddeus __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds.
I find it offensive that you used an example of splitting rocks as some sort of disparaging display of humor. Rock splitting is incredibly difficult if you do it to any design at all, which explins the great abundance of waste flake material at prehistoric archaeological sites. It took a great deal of trial and error to perfect any design in stone. We take our technologies for granted, but when do we ever try for ourselves? You stated that your friend "made this up." That was ehere I began. It's like every powerful post-Roman European political body claiming to be Rome, e.g. The third Reich. -Thaddeus --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Anyone else on this list tired of being called > thieves > and pirates? Because 50% of the people on this list > happily bought pieces, as well as many scientists. > Thaddeus, this is getting old. Barbarism is war, and > terrorism, I hardly think collecting rocks, and > saving > them from destruction qualifies. I am sick of being > called names by you. > Michael Farmer > Any help here, or are the other list members going > to > just let his drivel continue? > > > > --- Thaddeus Besedin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Your friend just ripped off someone else, with > much > > more talent than either of you drunken cokeheads. > > How > > is that sort of theft not "barbaric?" You need to > > stop > > waving the word "Peruvians" or "Peru's" around as > if > > they are one big collective awareness. You have no > > idea what science is, and what it is not. Let the > > rock > > oxidize. Why not? then we can study > > terrestrialization > > in a highland environment. Sampling is what > science > > must do, thanks to greedy traffickers who profit > > without benefiting the institutions that make it > > possible to profit immensely. If you donated 10% > of > > your profit to one institution to pay for analysis > > of > > a greater proportion of samples, then we can talk > > science. > > --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > A friend of mine made this up tonight, it shows > > the > > > mentality of Peru's scientists with regard to > the > > > Carancas meteorite fall. > > > > > > http://meteoriteguy.com/ebayauctionstockphotos/INGEMMET_large.gif > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, Randall Gregory is back to his > > old > > > tricks, threatening me and my family. I am about > > to > > > take serious action if it continues. It seems > that > > > my > > > sales are driving him to insanity. He now thinks > > > that > > > he is working with the Peruvian government. > > > I think he needs serious help, the delusions > are > > > getting worse by the day. > > > Anyone who wants to read some of the nuttier > > emails > > > can let me know, I will forward them. > > > Michael Farmer > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds.
I find it offensive that you used an example of splitting rocks as some sort of disparaging display of humor. Rock splitting is incredibly difficult if you do it to any design at all, which explins the great abundance of waste flake material at prehistoric archaeological sites. It took a great deal of trial and error to perfect any design in stone. We take our technologies for granted, but when do we ever try for ourselves? You stated that your friend "made this up." That was ehere I began. It's like every powerful post-Roman European political body claiming to be Rome, e.g. The third Reich. -Thaddeus --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Anyone else on this list tired of being called > thieves > and pirates? Because 50% of the people on this list > happily bought pieces, as well as many scientists. > Thaddeus, this is getting old. Barbarism is war, and > terrorism, I hardly think collecting rocks, and > saving > them from destruction qualifies. I am sick of being > called names by you. > Michael Farmer > Any help here, or are the other list members going > to > just let his drivel continue? > > > > --- Thaddeus Besedin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Your friend just ripped off someone else, with > much > > more talent than either of you drunken cokeheads. > > How > > is that sort of theft not "barbaric?" You need to > > stop > > waving the word "Peruvians" or "Peru's" around as > if > > they are one big collective awareness. You have no > > idea what science is, and what it is not. Let the > > rock > > oxidize. Why not? then we can study > > terrestrialization > > in a highland environment. Sampling is what > science > > must do, thanks to greedy traffickers who profit > > without benefiting the institutions that make it > > possible to profit immensely. If you donated 10% > of > > your profit to one institution to pay for analysis > > of > > a greater proportion of samples, then we can talk > > science. > > --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > A friend of mine made this up tonight, it shows > > the > > > mentality of Peru's scientists with regard to > the > > > Carancas meteorite fall. > > > > > > http://meteoriteguy.com/ebayauctionstockphotos/INGEMMET_large.gif > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, Randall Gregory is back to his > > old > > > tricks, threatening me and my family. I am about > > to > > > take serious action if it continues. It seems > that > > > my > > > sales are driving him to insanity. He now thinks > > > that > > > he is working with the Peruvian government. > > > I think he needs serious help, the delusions > are > > > getting worse by the day. > > > Anyone who wants to read some of the nuttier > > emails > > > can let me know, I will forward them. > > > Michael Farmer > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Peru news - finders keepers
Just because something lands on "your" land doesn't mean you "own" it. What if luggage containing money came out of the sky, creating a crater, from an airplane that exploded in mid-air? Would I "own" the money? What if I found a human burial while digging a pool. Would I own the skull? You make us all look like collaborators with looters and traffickers. This legal stalemate itself is the problem. The Peruvian government is not going to put it on ebay, you know; what a waste, you must think. National patrimony should not be sold. -Thaddeus --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just had a 30 minute conversation with the > landowner > in Carancas. > He told me some interesting news. The federal > government of Peru has threatened imprisonment for > anyone who attempts to excavate the meteorite. The > townspeople want to dig it up, as I know well since > I > was at the meeting where it was voted for. > The scientists are threatening the people, saying > that > the meteorite will go to Lima and they will not be > compensated. This is causing a huge problem down > there. > So what was written today is total crap. I never > said > the meteorite was worth a million dollars or > anything > like that. The people are not idiots, they know it > is > worth a lot of money, and they hope to better their > lives with it. The government is dashing those > dreams > by forbidding it's removal. They are allowing it to > be > destroyed both for science and any economical gain. > > I tried to contact Nunez del Prado, I am going to > lay > into him, for spreading these lies about me. > Whatever > problems they are having are their own between them > and the locals. I guess they think they have the > right > to just romp in, do what they want, and take the > meteorite from the villagers. It seems the villagers > have other ideas. > > Michael Farmer > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] discoidal rock receptacles
I'll sell my old Folsom, California brothel token as a "whore quarter," a little meteor than right. -Thaddeus --- Göran Axelsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Walter Branch wrote: > >> difference between coins, tokens, medals, and > rounds-- > >> except for coin collectors. > > > > True. As a stamp and cover collector, I cringe > when I hear someone > > call it an envelope when to me it is a "cover." > > > > Also, a first day cover and event cover are not > the same thing. > > > > -Walter > > I know your feeling, Walter. > > As a coin collector since 25 years, this topic has > been a painful > experience. > > ;-) > > To me a coin is only a coin if it's been issued at > nominal value. No > matter what mints and other persons say, any "coin" > that is impossible > to get from a bank or mint at nominal value at least > once in it's > lifetime is nothing more than a glorified medal. If > the nominal value > has nothing to do with the price then it is not > currency. > > ... but that is only my opinion. > > I have written this mail a number of times and never > sent it, but > finally I had to add to the discussion. I promise, > the next message I > write will be about meteorites. > > Wait, I know! I will sell my silver dollars as super > nova coins. What do > you think? > > :-) > > /Göran > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Great picture that summarizes Peru's scientific minds.
Your friend just ripped off someone else, with much more talent than either of you drunken cokeheads. How is that sort of theft not "barbaric?" You need to stop waving the word "Peruvians" or "Peru's" around as if they are one big collective awareness. You have no idea what science is, and what it is not. Let the rock oxidize. Why not? then we can study terrestrialization in a highland environment. Sampling is what science must do, thanks to greedy traffickers who profit without benefiting the institutions that make it possible to profit immensely. If you donated 10% of your profit to one institution to pay for analysis of a greater proportion of samples, then we can talk science. --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A friend of mine made this up tonight, it shows the > mentality of Peru's scientists with regard to the > Carancas meteorite fall. > http://meteoriteguy.com/ebayauctionstockphotos/INGEMMET_large.gif > > > > On another note, Randall Gregory is back to his old > tricks, threatening me and my family. I am about to > take serious action if it continues. It seems that > my > sales are driving him to insanity. He now thinks > that > he is working with the Peruvian government. > I think he needs serious help, the delusions are > getting worse by the day. > Anyone who wants to read some of the nuttier emails > can let me know, I will forward them. > Michael Farmer > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mali meteorite: racism, to begin
Every time our friends from the"dark continent" have something that you may potentially let go of your rent for, you doubt it. It's always a scam. I read about good old boys here on the list ripping you off (how COULD they!), and it's as if the phrase "they're all the same" is the first thing that pops up, though not in so many words. It took a white man to convince you. How fucking typical. Go collect state quarters and get your fingers out of your mouths! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] DISGUSTED SYMPATHIZERS
Mikey, What do meteorites do? MAKE CRATERS. If this had fallen on inaccessable federal land, you wouldn't give a shit. The Nininger analogy by Sterling is applicable here. There is no multi-Ton impactor. It is strewn about the area. Even if there is a rock in the pit, What difference would it make, since Michael Farmer has supplied an adequate amount of material to scientific institutions around the world to exhaust its scientific value. Everything else is just photogrammetry. Billions of tons of this chondritic material can potentially be recovered some day in the near future, with asteroidal mining on the horizon. Give up. A rock as a meal-ticket is not acquired in the name of science. Your free samples to scientific institutions were an attempt to have the stone classified (at no cost to you) rapidly, increasing its value and certifying you as someone with two or more authentic stones, and not just half a conscience and a smaller fraction of a prefrontal lobe. Love, Thaddeus __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mysterious Circular Structure: captions at http://s237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/
You may probably want to know what you are looking at. -Thaddeus all images and captions are at http://s237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/ --- Thaddeus Besedin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > List, > This structure is a spreading zone, in an > extensional > basin, and most of its morphology is due to the > chemult graben fault system, a normal (in geologic > terms, as opposed to a reverse fault system) fault > system which makes the structure a horst/volcanic > arc > (see calderas in images). > The Western portion seems to be known as Walker Rim, > but I could be wrong. > Spreading of crust allowed basaltic flows to emerge, > not an impact (the entire Great Basin is > structurally > a parallel series of normal faults and Horst/Graben > blocks). The > ring of extinct basaltic cones,emerged from a > single, > very ancient primary caldera, intruded later during > a > second period of volcanic activity, probably > synchronically corresponding to flood basalt > extrusion > on the Columbia Plateau. Palinspastic reconstruction > may show a rotational tendency for this axial > structure as a tensional center, erupting as the > valley floor spread. > I worked for a few hours in Global Mapper 8.3 on > these, with most of the time spent waiting for > photobucket uploads (painfully slow). These are > digital elevation model images, Landsat 7 images, > fault and lithologic overlays, topographic profiles, > and 3D image compilations of the above. Enjoy. > http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/ORstruct30m1wlitho.jpg > http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/ORstructlandsat7wlitho.jpg > http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/vert65withLandsat7andlitho.jpg > http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/profileW-E.jpg > http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/W-EprofileonLANDSAT7.jpg > http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/N-SprofileonLANDSAT-1.jpg > http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/N-SprofileonLANDSAT.jpg > http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/faultslabelslithoTN.jpg > http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/vert65viewS3Dlithofaultslabels.jpg > http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/faults30mDEMnolabels.jpg > -Thaddeus Besedin > --- Thaddeus Besedin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I'm downloading DOQQ and DEM data from the USGS > > seamless server (I was going to make some 3D > images > > of > > Mt. Hood for a friend anyway). I'll try to post > > links > > to my images, including a simple profile analysis > > and > > vertically exaggerated 3D images. I hope that the > > data > > is available in 1/3-arc second resolution. At > 3-arc > > second resolution, the structure does have a > > prominent > > sidewall, but is still, according to a > lithological > > GIS layer I have currently loaded, within the > > boundaries of "mafic volcanic flow," e.g. basalts, > > and > > not material associated with pyroclastic, > siliceous > > lavas (dacite, andesite) that form the Cascade > > stratovolcanoes. Mt. Mazama, the name given to the > > former stratovolcano that currently we call crater > > lake, was radically altered by its last major > > eruption, 7,627 BP > > > (http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/27/7/621). > > Its tephra layer is an important chronological > > constraint in geochronology and in archaeology, > and > > is > > present in various thicknesses (following > monotonic > > decrement, but distributed much more extensively > > NNE) > > from Northern California to Saskatchewan to > Montana. > > ... off to work. > > Thaddeus --- Jerry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Cool news ie. impact causing HOT SPOT. So > > Cool. > > > If we generalize [which > > > I presume we must not without scientific data to > > > support the supposition] > > > Yellowstone, Sunset Crater, etc. are all impact > > > sites caused when the crust > > > was so deeply wounded the mantle material > persists > > > in melting whatever > > > crustal material attempts to scab the wound! > > > SUPER COOL!! > > > Jerry Flaherty > > > - Original Message - > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Stefan Brandes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: > > > Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 5:01 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mysterious > Circular > > > Structure Near Chemult, > > >
[meteorite-list] Mysterious Circular Structure Near Chemult, Oregon not so mysterious anymore
List, This structure is a spreading zone, in an extensional basin, and most of its morphology is due to the chemult graben fault system, a normal (in geologic terms, as opposed to a reverse fault system) fault system which makes the structure a horst/volcanic arc (see calderas in images). The Western portion seems to be known as Walker Rim, but I could be wrong. Spreading of crust allowed basaltic flows to emerge, not an impact (the entire Great Basin is structurally a parallel series of normal faults and Horst/Graben blocks). The ring of extinct basaltic cones,emerged from a single, very ancient primary caldera, intruded later during a second period of volcanic activity, probably synchronically corresponding to flood basalt extrusion on the Columbia Plateau. Palinspastic reconstruction may show a rotational tendency for this axial structure as a tensional center, erupting as the valley floor spread. I worked for a few hours in Global Mapper 8.3 on these, with most of the time spent waiting for photobucket uploads (painfully slow). These are digital elevation model images, Landsat 7 images, fault and lithologic overlays, topographic profiles, and 3D image compilations of the above. Enjoy. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/ORstruct30m1wlitho.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/ORstructlandsat7wlitho.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/vert65withLandsat7andlitho.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/profileW-E.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/W-EprofileonLANDSAT7.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/N-SprofileonLANDSAT-1.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/N-SprofileonLANDSAT.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/faultslabelslithoTN.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/vert65viewS3Dlithofaultslabels.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff316/endophasy/faults30mDEMnolabels.jpg -Thaddeus Besedin --- Thaddeus Besedin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm downloading DOQQ and DEM data from the USGS > seamless server (I was going to make some 3D images > of > Mt. Hood for a friend anyway). I'll try to post > links > to my images, including a simple profile analysis > and > vertically exaggerated 3D images. I hope that the > data > is available in 1/3-arc second resolution. At 3-arc > second resolution, the structure does have a > prominent > sidewall, but is still, according to a lithological > GIS layer I have currently loaded, within the > boundaries of "mafic volcanic flow," e.g. basalts, > and > not material associated with pyroclastic, siliceous > lavas (dacite, andesite) that form the Cascade > stratovolcanoes. Mt. Mazama, the name given to the > former stratovolcano that currently we call crater > lake, was radically altered by its last major > eruption, 7,627 BP > (http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/27/7/621). > Its tephra layer is an important chronological > constraint in geochronology and in archaeology, and > is > present in various thicknesses (following monotonic > decrement, but distributed much more extensively > NNE) > from Northern California to Saskatchewan to Montana. > ... off to work. > Thaddeus --- Jerry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Cool news ie. impact causing HOT SPOT. So > Cool. > > If we generalize [which > > I presume we must not without scientific data to > > support the supposition] > > Yellowstone, Sunset Crater, etc. are all impact > > sites caused when the crust > > was so deeply wounded the mantle material persists > > in melting whatever > > crustal material attempts to scab the wound! > > SUPER COOL!! > > Jerry Flaherty > > - Original Message - > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Stefan Brandes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: > > Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 5:01 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mysterious Circular > > Structure Near Chemult, > > Oregon > > > > > > > Looks like something fun to check out either > way. > > I've been meaning to > > > get over and explore that general area. Of > course > > it would have to be > > > pretty obvious for me to notice anything :-) > > > > > > By the way, I have heard a theory that there was > a > > large strike at some > > > point in central Oregon causing a "hot spot" in > > the mantle (?) which has > > > since migrated through the Snake River plain in > > southern Idaho and now > > > lies beneath Yellowstone National Park resulting > > in all of the geothermal > > > activity in
Re: [meteorite-list] Mysterious Circular Structure Near Chemult, Oregon
I'm downloading DOQQ and DEM data from the USGS seamless server (I was going to make some 3D images of Mt. Hood for a friend anyway). I'll try to post links to my images, including a simple profile analysis and vertically exaggerated 3D images. I hope that the data is available in 1/3-arc second resolution. At 3-arc second resolution, the structure does have a prominent sidewall, but is still, according to a lithological GIS layer I have currently loaded, within the boundaries of "mafic volcanic flow," e.g. basalts, and not material associated with pyroclastic, siliceous lavas (dacite, andesite) that form the Cascade stratovolcanoes. Mt. Mazama, the name given to the former stratovolcano that currently we call crater lake, was radically altered by its last major eruption, 7,627 BP (http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/27/7/621). Its tephra layer is an important chronological constraint in geochronology and in archaeology, and is present in various thicknesses (following monotonic decrement, but distributed much more extensively NNE) from Northern California to Saskatchewan to Montana. ... off to work. Thaddeus --- Jerry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Cool news ie. impact causing HOT SPOT. So Cool. > If we generalize [which > I presume we must not without scientific data to > support the supposition] > Yellowstone, Sunset Crater, etc. are all impact > sites caused when the crust > was so deeply wounded the mantle material persists > in melting whatever > crustal material attempts to scab the wound! > SUPER COOL!! > Jerry Flaherty > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Stefan Brandes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: > Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 5:01 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mysterious Circular > Structure Near Chemult, > Oregon > > > > Looks like something fun to check out either way. > I've been meaning to > > get over and explore that general area. Of course > it would have to be > > pretty obvious for me to notice anything :-) > > > > By the way, I have heard a theory that there was a > large strike at some > > point in central Oregon causing a "hot spot" in > the mantle (?) which has > > since migrated through the Snake River plain in > southern Idaho and now > > lies beneath Yellowstone National Park resulting > in all of the geothermal > > activity in that area. > > > > Thanks for sharing! > > > > Phil > > > > > >> Interesting formation : > >> > >> > http://epod.usra.edu/archive/epodviewer.php3?oid=382976 > >> > >> any ideas? > >> > >> Stefan > >> __ > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Shawnee tradition, hermeneutic condition
Sorry. I need to proofread. It's a sentence: to minutes of unnecessary convolution. The parenthetic section should have been a footnote. -Thaddeus --- dmouat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That first sentence (if it is, in fact, a sentence) > is definitely the > longest (albeit obfuscatory) I've "read" all month. > > Hohohoba > > Thaddeus Besedin wrote: > > >The Shawnee and others are the ONLY sources of > >Pleistocene cultural information, possibly > preserved > >in accounts of the cosmogony of late-coming > >Paleoindian populations (as also can be expected of > >the mythopoesis of indigenous Northern Asian > >populations, e.g. early Jomon Proto-Ainu > >people(~16,000 BP - ~2,450 BP), certainly surviving > >relatively intact through the cold snap of the > Younger > >Dryas, although not necessarily witnessing an > impact - > >unless by hemispheric diffuse supernova ejecta), > that > >a study, constrained entirely to an output of > >speculative-associative quasi-syntheses with all > >caveats understood, can draw from. Unverifiability > is > >not itself completely at odds with scientific > >practice, and correspondence of paleoclimatological > >reconstructions, geological evidence, and > >archaeological evidence can parallel mythos and, to > a > >minimal degree, offer a possible translation of > >metaphorical-allegorical narrative. Thus, scholars > >with the aspirations of an E.P. Grondine are > limited > >to a view of their subject from distances beyond > mere > >time (semantic indeterminability/incommensurability > >apply - a transmission from crystallized indigenous > >accounts, to eurocentric 19th c. ethnographers to > >E.P.G.). Archaeolgy is much easier, but certainly > >mute. > > > >Just don't call Hibben a rigorous and ethical > >scientist. > > > >We must, to arrive at the closest degee of recorded > >experience, decolonialize our view of vanquished > >non-european cultural traditions, but what we have > >left (Eurocentric ethnographies)is the best that we > >have left. What do the current Shawnee think of the > >works of white ethnographers? > >One last thing - I found this article at the PNAS > >site, although another list member may have beat me > to > >it: > >"Evidence for an extraterrestrial impact 12,900 > years > >ago that contributed to the megafaunal extinctions > >and the Younger Dryas cooling" > >http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/0706977104v1.pdf > >[full-color images, graphs, etc. in PDF format] > > > >--- "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > >>Dirk wrote: > >> > >>List and Ed, > >> > >> > >> > >>>Continuing discussion follows EPG`s final > question. > >>> > >>> > >> > >>"E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:"... > >> > >>"Do you really want to stand by such a display of > a > >>lack of intelligence and sense, or do you wish to > >>reconsider that statement?" > >> > >> > >> > >- > > > > > >>>Yes, I stand by my statements of fact. > >>> > >>> > >>They were no statements of fact, Dirk. > >> > >>You made assertions concerning Native American > >>traditions which were both factually incorrect, as > >>well as displayed an amazing ignorance of the > field > >>of > >>anthropology. You compared millenium old > traditions > >>with a 175 year old forgery. > >> > >> > >> > >>>And yes, you finally admitted that your facts are > >>> > >>> > >>indeed "your" belief, thus not science. > >> > >>And how did you get that? My facts are one thing, > >>my > >>beliefs another. > >> > >>I gave the allegories of several Native American > >>religions in "Man and Impact in the Americas", as > >>well > >>as giving their oral histories there - and mainly > I > >>gave their histories. Those are "facts" about > those > >>peoples in and of themselves. > >> > >>By the way, the Maya had written writing, and made > >>contemporaneous records of events. > >> > >>What I "
Re: [meteorite-list] Shawnee tradition, hermeneutic condition
Sorry. I need to proofread. It's a sentence: to minutes of unnecessary convolution. The parenthetic section should have been a footnote. -Thaddeus --- dmouat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That first sentence (if it is, in fact, a sentence) > is definitely the > longest (albeit obfuscatory) I've "read" all month. > > Hohohoba > > Thaddeus Besedin wrote: > > >The Shawnee and others are the ONLY sources of > >Pleistocene cultural information, possibly > preserved > >in accounts of the cosmogony of late-coming > >Paleoindian populations (as also can be expected of > >the mythopoesis of indigenous Northern Asian > >populations, e.g. early Jomon Proto-Ainu > >people(~16,000 BP - ~2,450 BP), certainly surviving > >relatively intact through the cold snap of the > Younger > >Dryas, although not necessarily witnessing an > impact - > >unless by hemispheric diffuse supernova ejecta), > that > >a study, constrained entirely to an output of > >speculative-associative quasi-syntheses with all > >caveats understood, can draw from. Unverifiability > is > >not itself completely at odds with scientific > >practice, and correspondence of paleoclimatological > >reconstructions, geological evidence, and > >archaeological evidence can parallel mythos and, to > a > >minimal degree, offer a possible translation of > >metaphorical-allegorical narrative. Thus, scholars > >with the aspirations of an E.P. Grondine are > limited > >to a view of their subject from distances beyond > mere > >time (semantic indeterminability/incommensurability > >apply - a transmission from crystallized indigenous > >accounts, to eurocentric 19th c. ethnographers to > >E.P.G.). Archaeolgy is much easier, but certainly > >mute. > > > >Just don't call Hibben a rigorous and ethical > >scientist. > > > >We must, to arrive at the closest degee of recorded > >experience, decolonialize our view of vanquished > >non-european cultural traditions, but what we have > >left (Eurocentric ethnographies)is the best that we > >have left. What do the current Shawnee think of the > >works of white ethnographers? > >One last thing - I found this article at the PNAS > >site, although another list member may have beat me > to > >it: > >"Evidence for an extraterrestrial impact 12,900 > years > >ago that contributed to the megafaunal extinctions > >and the Younger Dryas cooling" > >http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/0706977104v1.pdf > >[full-color images, graphs, etc. in PDF format] > > > >--- "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > >>Dirk wrote: > >> > >>List and Ed, > >> > >> > >> > >>>Continuing discussion follows EPG`s final > question. > >>> > >>> > >> > >>"E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:"... > >> > >>"Do you really want to stand by such a display of > a > >>lack of intelligence and sense, or do you wish to > >>reconsider that statement?" > >> > >> > >> > >- > > > > > >>>Yes, I stand by my statements of fact. > >>> > >>> > >>They were no statements of fact, Dirk. > >> > >>You made assertions concerning Native American > >>traditions which were both factually incorrect, as > >>well as displayed an amazing ignorance of the > field > >>of > >>anthropology. You compared millenium old > traditions > >>with a 175 year old forgery. > >> > >> > >> > >>>And yes, you finally admitted that your facts are > >>> > >>> > >>indeed "your" belief, thus not science. > >> > >>And how did you get that? My facts are one thing, > >>my > >>beliefs another. > >> > >>I gave the allegories of several Native American > >>religions in "Man and Impact in the Americas", as > >>well > >>as giving their oral histories there - and mainly > I > >>gave their histories. Those are "facts" about > those > >>peoples in and of themselves. > >> > >>By the way, the Maya had written writing, and made > >>contemporaneous records of events. > >> > >>What I "
Re: [meteorite-list] Shawnee tradition, hermeneutic condition
Sorry. I need to proofread. It's a sentence: to minutes of unnecessary convolution. The parenthetic section should have been a footnote. -Thaddeus --- dmouat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That first sentence (if it is, in fact, a sentence) > is definitely the > longest (albeit obfuscatory) I've "read" all month. > > Hohohoba > > Thaddeus Besedin wrote: > > >The Shawnee and others are the ONLY sources of > >Pleistocene cultural information, possibly > preserved > >in accounts of the cosmogony of late-coming > >Paleoindian populations (as also can be expected of > >the mythopoesis of indigenous Northern Asian > >populations, e.g. early Jomon Proto-Ainu > >people(~16,000 BP - ~2,450 BP), certainly surviving > >relatively intact through the cold snap of the > Younger > >Dryas, although not necessarily witnessing an > impact - > >unless by hemispheric diffuse supernova ejecta), > that > >a study, constrained entirely to an output of > >speculative-associative quasi-syntheses with all > >caveats understood, can draw from. Unverifiability > is > >not itself completely at odds with scientific > >practice, and correspondence of paleoclimatological > >reconstructions, geological evidence, and > >archaeological evidence can parallel mythos and, to > a > >minimal degree, offer a possible translation of > >metaphorical-allegorical narrative. Thus, scholars > >with the aspirations of an E.P. Grondine are > limited > >to a view of their subject from distances beyond > mere > >time (semantic indeterminability/incommensurability > >apply - a transmission from crystallized indigenous > >accounts, to eurocentric 19th c. ethnographers to > >E.P.G.). Archaeolgy is much easier, but certainly > >mute. > > > >Just don't call Hibben a rigorous and ethical > >scientist. > > > >We must, to arrive at the closest degee of recorded > >experience, decolonialize our view of vanquished > >non-european cultural traditions, but what we have > >left (Eurocentric ethnographies)is the best that we > >have left. What do the current Shawnee think of the > >works of white ethnographers? > >One last thing - I found this article at the PNAS > >site, although another list member may have beat me > to > >it: > >"Evidence for an extraterrestrial impact 12,900 > years > >ago that contributed to the megafaunal extinctions > >and the Younger Dryas cooling" > >http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/0706977104v1.pdf > >[full-color images, graphs, etc. in PDF format] > > > >--- "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > >>Dirk wrote: > >> > >>List and Ed, > >> > >> > >> > >>>Continuing discussion follows EPG`s final > question. > >>> > >>> > >> > >>"E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:"... > >> > >>"Do you really want to stand by such a display of > a > >>lack of intelligence and sense, or do you wish to > >>reconsider that statement?" > >> > >> > >> > >- > > > > > >>>Yes, I stand by my statements of fact. > >>> > >>> > >>They were no statements of fact, Dirk. > >> > >>You made assertions concerning Native American > >>traditions which were both factually incorrect, as > >>well as displayed an amazing ignorance of the > field > >>of > >>anthropology. You compared millenium old > traditions > >>with a 175 year old forgery. > >> > >> > >> > >>>And yes, you finally admitted that your facts are > >>> > >>> > >>indeed "your" belief, thus not science. > >> > >>And how did you get that? My facts are one thing, > >>my > >>beliefs another. > >> > >>I gave the allegories of several Native American > >>religions in "Man and Impact in the Americas", as > >>well > >>as giving their oral histories there - and mainly > I > >>gave their histories. Those are "facts" about > those > >>peoples in and of themselves. > >> > >>By the way, the Maya had written writing, and made > >>contemporaneous records of events. > >> > >>What I "
[meteorite-list] Free meteorite references, from "Radiocarbon"
List, a search using the keyword "meteorites" at the ASU website for the journal "Radiocarbon" yielded 54 full-text PDF files, while the keyword "meteorite" yielded 67 articles. All are in the free archives of the journal, complete from 1959-2004. I haven't had time to referee any (as if I am qualified), but I imagine nobody will blame me. The main page is at http://radiocarbon.library.arizona.edu/radiocarbon/index.jsp. Click "search." Enter what you will. -Thaddeus keyword "meteorites": An extraction system to measure carbon-14 terrestrial ages of meteorites with a Tandetron AMS at Nagoya University. Author: Minami, Masayo; Nakamura, Toshio; Volume: 43 Issue: 2a In-situ AMS determination Re-Os isochron in IIA iron meteorites. Author: Ding, Gang Jian; Kilius, Linus R; Wilson, Graham C; Zhao, Xiao Lei; Rucklidge, John C; Volume: 38 Issue: 1 Precious metal abundances in selected iron meteorites; in-situ AMS measurements of the six platinum-group elements plus gold. Author: Wilson, Graham C; Rucklidge, John C; Kilius, Linas R; Ding, Gang Jian; Cresswell, Richard G; Volume: 38 Issue: 1 Spallogenic (super 14) C in high-altitude rocks and in Antarctic meteorites. Author: Jull, A J Timothy; Donahue, Douglas J; Linick, T W; Wilson, G C; Volume: 31 Issue: 3 Evidence of anomalous (super 107) Ag and (super 109) Ag composition in iron meteorites. Author: Ding, Gang Jian; Kilius, Linus R; Wilson, Graham C; Zhao, Xiao Lei; Rucklidge, John C; Litherland, A E; Volume: 38 Issue: 1 Cosmogenic radionuclide contents of Antarctic meteorites from Allan Hills having high natural thermoluminescence. Author: Mokos, J; Vogt, Stephan; Lipschutz, M E; Volume: 38 Issue: 1 Cosmogenic-radionuclide profile of the Mocs Meteorite strewnfield. Author: Ferko, T E; Lipschutz, M E; Volume: 38 Issue: 1 New interpretation of the (super 10) Be and (super 26) Al content in cosmic spherules. Author: Zoppi, U; Matsuzaki, H; Kobayashi, K; Imamura, M; Nagai, H; Volume: 38 Issue: 1 Recent (super 14) C measurements with the Chalk River FN tandem accelerator. Author: Brown, R M; Andrews, H R; Ball, G C; Burn, N; Davies, W G; Imahori, Y; Milton, J C D; Workman, W; Volume: 25 Issue: 2 Instituto Venezolano de investigaciones Cientificas natural radiocarbon measurements VI. Author: Tamers, M A; Volume: 13 Issue: 1 On cosmic-ray exposure ages of terrestrial rocks; a suggestion. Author: Lal, Devendra; Volume: 37 Issue: 3 Radiocarbon Beyond This World Author: Jull, A. J. Timothy; Lal, Devendra; Burr, George S.; Bland, Philip A.; Bevan, Alexander W.R.; Beck, J. Warren; Volume: 42 Issue: 1 A minivial for small sample (super 14) C dating. Author: Kaihola, Lauri; Kojola, Hannu; Heinonen, Aarne; Volume: 33 Issue: 2 Comparison of dates for young basalts from the (super 40) Ar/ (super 39) Ar and cosmogenic helium techniques. Author: Poths, J; Anthony, E Y; Williams, W J; Heizler, M; McIntosh, W C; Volume: 38 Issue: 1 Surface (super 129) iodine/ (super 127) iodine ratios; marine vs. terrestrial. Author: Moran, Jean E; Santschi, Peter; Schink, David R; Oktay, Sarah; Fehn, Udo; Rao, Usha; Volume: 38 Issue: 1 A new interpretation of the distribution of bomb-produced chlorine-36 in the environment, with special reference to the Laurentian Great Lakes. Author: Milton, J C D; Milton, G M; Andrews, H R; Chant, L A; Cornett, R J J; Davies, W G; Greiner, B F; Imahori, Y; Koslowsky, V T; Kramer, S J; McKay, J W; Volume: 38 Issue: 1 Constraining the initiation and evolution of anoxia in the Black Sea by AMS radiocarbon dating. Author: Jones, Glenn A; Volume: 33 Issue: 2 Proposed studies of (super 14) CO and (super 10) Be in polar ice to delineate cosmic ray flux changes in the past 40,000 years. Author: Lal, Devendra; Jull, A J T; Volume: 33 Issue: 2 AMS of (super 41) Ca using the CaF (sub 3) negative ion. Author: Kubick, Peter W; Elmore, David; Volume: 31 Issue: 3 Accelerator mass spectrometry with fully stripped (super 36) Cl ions. Author: Haberstock, Guenther; Heinzl, Johann; Korschinek, Gunther; Morinaga, Haruhiko; Nolte, Eckehart; Ratzinger, Ulrich; Kato, Kazuo; Wolf, Manfred; Volume: 28 Issue: 2a Cosmogenic in-situ (super 14) C in polar firn and ice samples. Author: Lal, Devendra; Jull, A J T; Donahue, D J; Volume: 33 Issue: 2 Application of (super 36) Cl surface exposure age dating to central Andean volcanology and glaciology. Author: Sharma, Pankaj; de, Silva Shanaka L; Elmore, David; Vogt, Stephan; Dunne, Adam; Volume: 38 Issue: 1 First (super 14) C observations in waters of the Great Australian Bight. Author: Ribbe, J; Bye, J T; Tomczak, M; Jacobsen, G E; Lawson, E M; Smith, A M; Fink, D; Hotchkis, M A C; Tuniz, C; Volume: 38 Issue: 1 Half-life of (super 41) Ca. Author: Kutschera, Walter; Ahmad, Irshad; Paul, Michae
[meteorite-list] Free meteorite references, from "Radiocarbon"
List, a search using the keyword "meteorites" at the ASU website for the journal "Radiocarbon" yielded 54 full-text PDF files, while the keyword "meteorite" yielded 67 articles. All are in the free archives of the journal, complete from 1959-2004. I haven't had time to referee any (as if I am qualified), but I imagine nobody will blame me. The main page is at http://radiocarbon.library.arizona.edu/radiocarbon/index.jsp. Click "search." Enter what you will. -Thaddeus Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Shawnee tradition, hermeneutic condition
The Shawnee and others are the ONLY sources of Pleistocene cultural information, possibly preserved in accounts of the cosmogony of late-coming Paleoindian populations (as also can be expected of the mythopoesis of indigenous Northern Asian populations, e.g. early Jomon Proto-Ainu people(~16,000 BP - ~2,450 BP), certainly surviving relatively intact through the cold snap of the Younger Dryas, although not necessarily witnessing an impact - unless by hemispheric diffuse supernova ejecta), that a study, constrained entirely to an output of speculative-associative quasi-syntheses with all caveats understood, can draw from. Unverifiability is not itself completely at odds with scientific practice, and correspondence of paleoclimatological reconstructions, geological evidence, and archaeological evidence can parallel mythos and, to a minimal degree, offer a possible translation of metaphorical-allegorical narrative. Thus, scholars with the aspirations of an E.P. Grondine are limited to a view of their subject from distances beyond mere time (semantic indeterminability/incommensurability apply - a transmission from crystallized indigenous accounts, to eurocentric 19th c. ethnographers to E.P.G.). Archaeolgy is much easier, but certainly mute. Just don't call Hibben a rigorous and ethical scientist. We must, to arrive at the closest degee of recorded experience, decolonialize our view of vanquished non-european cultural traditions, but what we have left (Eurocentric ethnographies)is the best that we have left. What do the current Shawnee think of the works of white ethnographers? One last thing - I found this article at the PNAS site, although another list member may have beat me to it: "Evidence for an extraterrestrial impact 12,900 years ago that contributed to the megafaunal extinctions and the Younger Dryas cooling" http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/0706977104v1.pdf [full-color images, graphs, etc. in PDF format] --- "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dirk wrote: > > List and Ed, > > >Continuing discussion follows EPG`s final question. > > "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:"... > > "Do you really want to stand by such a display of a > lack of intelligence and sense, or do you wish to > reconsider that statement?" > - > > >Yes, I stand by my statements of fact. > > They were no statements of fact, Dirk. > > You made assertions concerning Native American > traditions which were both factually incorrect, as > well as displayed an amazing ignorance of the field > of > anthropology. You compared millenium old traditions > with a 175 year old forgery. > > >And yes, you finally admitted that your facts are > indeed "your" belief, thus not science. > > And how did you get that? My facts are one thing, > my > beliefs another. > > I gave the allegories of several Native American > religions in "Man and Impact in the Americas", as > well > as giving their oral histories there - and mainly I > gave their histories. Those are "facts" about those > peoples in and of themselves. > > By the way, the Maya had written writing, and made > contemporaneous records of events. > > What I "believe" is something else. I think that > there > are Christians who are scientists, Jews who are > scientists, Moslems who are scientists, Budhists who > are scientists. Can't one hold a Native American > belief system and be a scientist? Or can science > only > practiced by atheists and English Deists? > > Or perhaps history and anthropology are not > sciences? > > >Belief posed as fact or science is poor > scholarship, > >as your book and excerpts clearly display. > > So is misrepresenting someone else's work, and > misrepresenting their use of materials. > > >Also, lack of any primary research (nothing > remotely > demonstrating proof of any Holocene impact) > > Except for the sudden population losses and cultural > discontinuities... > > But then displays of physical evidence are often > invisible to some people. So watch the National > Geographic Channel program on TV. > > As a final point, the day after my final warning to > Darryl on Williamette, I ran into a gentleman whose > uncle had bulldozed a mound. Three days later he > was > found dead of heart attack drooped over a toilet > into > which he had been vomiting "stuff that looked like > s***". > > While that's a fact, it is only my belief that no > good > will come to Darryl or anyone from dealing > Williamette > - if he or anyone else wants to join the dataset, go > on ahead. Beyond this warning, like the others, I > will > simply look on in "dismay". > > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > > > Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small > Business gives you all the tools to get online. > http://smallbusine
Re: [meteorite-list] Post from Randall
True, Martin: pigs are still pigs in Peru, and Randall and Mike both seem to be incapable of settling conflicts without resorting to tattletale cop-calling. Of course, people resorting to the illegitimate authority of police often need to be policed (as in Mike's alleged disturbances of cultural stability/looting and Randall's supposed recourse to Gestapo tactics/looting). Altogether, Mike and Randall are whiny little whores, with dollars in their thongs. -Thaddeus --- Martin Altmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh, I wouldn't say, that it is a waste of time. > Other people are paying money to see such great > films like > "The treasure of the Sierra Madre" > > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Im Auftrag von Greg > Hupe > Gesendet: Freitag, 5. Oktober 2007 03:54 > An: fausta > Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Post from Randall > > Why post for the guy? Tell him to post directly to > Mike instead wasting the > rest of our time. > Best regards, > Greg > > > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > > > > - Original Message - > From: "fausta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 10:46 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Post from Randall > > > >I was asked to post this: > > > > > > > > > > Hey Fausta, will you post for me? Please. > > > > I propose this to Mr. Farmer. That we both return > all of our meteorite's > > to the Peruvian government and ask them permission > if we can keep one for > > our respective collections. They can make that > decision. And they can also > > > decide how much we can keep. Then we apologize to > the people of Carancas > > and offer to them to help preserve the crater and > extract the main mass > > (if any). Just a thought. I like to call it "Doing > the right thing". > > > > Randall (no problemo) Gregory (Dragon Slayer) not > a Tiger! > > > > > > I don't know him at all. > > > > Kelly > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WAAAAAH! Mikey got a booboo
Bob and list, Don't get me wrong: Dr. Randall Cirrhosis is obviously manipulative and has double standards, since he "understands" Peruvian cultural intricacies, and can thus behave like a colonialist. I wouldn't call it hypocrisy, since he has not made any attempt to hide his actions from our criticism, although Mark Bostick probably was correct assuming that Dr. Daniels is/was probably perpetually drunk. Without any defense of Randall Gregory, I ask how certain actions of Mike can be held inviolable, simply because list members wish to remain publicly unsympathetic to a man who is less useful as a collector's means to acquire new material. I believe I aptly label Mike by asserting that he has demonstrated on this list an arrogance and smugness, coupled with an adversarial, impulsive tendency to insult other list members openly at the distance of his security somewhere in cyberspace (I am pointing at myself here as well - here I admit a bit of hypocrisy, albeit only in the form of my recriminative attitude), peddling acquisitions and exulting in his commercial success as his right to be an insensitive chauvinist, whose character as a social being is evidently secondary in importance. --- Bob Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thaddeus, > > Im sorry but I dont have time to read every post. > Could you elaborate on your comments. Im curious > about your opinion. > > Thanks, > BE > - Original Message - > From: "Thaddeus Besedin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 2:20 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] WAH! Mikey got a > booboo > > > > List, > > Defend your source, but don't ask questions as to > his > > ethics. > > With Mike's impulse disorder evident, who indeed > is > > nursing a bottle? > > > > > > > > > > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel > answers from someone who > > knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WAAAAAH! Mikey got a booboo
List, Defend your source, but don't ask questions as to his ethics. With Mike's impulse disorder evident, who indeed is nursing a bottle? Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Cool NWA (Probable) Meteorite Wrong Photos - an artifact too?
Dean, Notice that your stone has terminal percussive pitting (series of parabolic concavities with patination) and probable striations/flattening on a lateral surface from grinding. You may have a prehistoric ground stone tool in addition to an interesting tuff/"polymict eucrite." The stone seems to have collapsed pumiceous glass clasts visible on an uncut surface in http://www.meteoriteshop.com/temp/rock3.jpg. If terrestrial, it could be classified as an andesitic ignimbrite. Is quartz present? Achondritic brecciated-xenolithic igneous materials (I would not call this a breccia) will usually not contain rounded xenolithic clasts, which can be interpreted as foreign materials derived from crystalline igneous-metamorphic and consolidated and unconsolidated sediments from local alluvial/colluvial materials intruded by magma or incorporated upon deposition of pyroclastic ejecta. The pink clasts seem suspect and look similar to rounded ashfall tuff granules, but may be K-feldspar or a non-volcanic siltstone if not any other homogeneous, mineral stained material. Oxidation in such clasts occurred previous to the formation of the rock. Next time, include an object of commonly known size for scale. --- dean bessey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It hasnt been analyized so I could be wrong but I > think this is one of the better meteor wrongs that > you > will ever see. Just look at how much the cut surface > looks like a howardite or polymict eucrite and the > white area looks like a CAI. Non magnetic and no > sign > of any crust. > http://www.meteoriteshop.com/temp/rock1.jpg > http://www.meteoriteshop.com/temp/rock2.jpg > http://www.meteoriteshop.com/temp/rock3.jpg > Thought some list members might like these photos - > even if its not a meteorite. > Cheers > DEAN Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The impactite bed
The deposits are not old enough to have consolidated into sandstone. this would be a paleosol, a buried A horizon. --- "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > to > > > the > > > naked eye - my guess is that it extends > throughout > > > other sandstone formations in the region - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > > > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! > Search > > > > > > http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search > that gives answers, not web links. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] A new market and its apocalyptic pilot
If only you could refrain from your smug, condescending assessments and understand that we don't assume we are right in science. We falsify our hypotheses. To be "far ahead" of other archaeological researchers is to have come to conclusions without sharing final reports on analysis of the chemical and physical characteristics of supposed YD impact fallout sediments from as many sites as possible. After all, multiple impacts may have occured. CLOVIS ASSEMBLAGES DID NOT COMPLETELY DIE OUT. I was referring to the projectile point only, which seems itself to have been the hallmark of the classic "mammoth hunter" Clovis assemblage. The association of "butterfly" and lunate crescentic bifacial objects in Western sites is dual: Clovis and WPLT (Western Pluvial Lakes tradition, with projectile point forms having weak shouldering and typically long contracting bases and subtriangular-incurvate distal outlines). The WPLT extended contemporaneously, in its earliest manifestations, with late Clovis, and extended into the early Holocene until hypsithermal (Holocene Climatic Optimum/Altithermal) conditions approximately 9.000 - 8,000 BP dessicated Great Basin pluvial lakes, with a consequent depopulation of desertified regions; diversification of resource exploitation in addition to intensification of specialized foraging economies is supported by the introduction of ground stone tools, numerous standardized flake, blade, and core-based tool forms and a larger variety of specialized hafting variations on projectile points (contracting base, side-notched, bifurcated base, notched base). Clovis hunting died out. Direct superposition of Goshen, Plainview, Agate Basin, Black Rock Concave, and a multitude of other concave base and/or fluted, parallel-sided, lanceolate projectile biface forms occurs over Clovis-bearing strata; these successors have similar core reduction and burin/scraper/graver technology asssociated with their occurrence, as well as an extreme rarity of ground stone implements, which suggests limited or no cultural institutionalization of nutritional reliance on plant resources. People learn to adapt. A tool's morphology is as transient as its objective purpose. Read "INITIAL HUMAN COLONIZATION OF THE AMERICAS: AN OVERVIEW OF THE ISSUES AND THE EVIDENCE" by Fiedel in PDF format: http://radiocarbon.library.arizona.edu/radiocarbon/GetFileServlet?file=file:///data1/pdf/Radiocarbon/Volume44/Number2/azu_radiocarbon_v44_n2_407_436_v.pdf&type=application/pdf Visit Arizona State University's online radiocarbon journal archives (http://radiocarbon.library.arizona.edu/radiocarbon/) with complete articles and tables for calibration using any number of free and freely available calibration programs (http://www.calpal.de/). Cut through the confusion of calendric/radiocarbon conversion. "Giant" and "tall" are two different words. Some stuff on the Andaste (Susquehannock) http://www.spanishhill.com/Skeletons/Authors_note.htm --- "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Thaddeus - > > >Individual skeletons, not entire collective burial > of > > members of particular genetically tall groups, > were > > interred in the fashion described by Dragoo. > > Yes, but you've omitted to tell the list that Dragoo > and separately Neuman were so shocked by the height > of > those "individual" skeletons they excavated that > Dragoo spent about half of his book "Mounds for the > Dead" trying to account for them. > > Amazingly a small pocket of the "Adena" survived > until > European contact - their proper name in English is > "Andaste"; I won't attempt the Iroquois, Ojibwe, > HoChunk, or Shawnee here - and their entire > population > were "giant", not just a few individuals. > > The Andaste are thoroughly documented in my book > "Man > and Impact in the Americas", and I think you might > enjoy reading the eyewitness accounts of these > "Adena" > people, detailed to the point of describing how they > urinated (being a giant presented some problems, > apparently) along with the full citations for > further > reading, if you wish. > > >An impact did not wipe out the Clovis people, but > the > >fluted point style specialized for the killing and > >butchering of megafauna became extinct as a result > of > >rapid reversion to glacial conditions and > subsequent > >irreversible extinction of most megafauna. > > Hmmm. Have you considered that the climate change > which led to starvation of the mega-faunal may also > have led to starvation of many of those people? That > does not include those killed by the direct blast > effects of impacts. > > Despite these reservations, it's pleasant to find > someone broadly in agreement with me. In my view, > many > people did survive the initial impacts - you can see > my comments on the Brook Run (Remington quarry) site > back in 2002 and my estimate then of what would need > to be done to demonstrate the holocene start > impacts: > > http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/ce010702.h
Re: [meteorite-list] not to sell samples of the new impactite layer, but ...
The content of E.P.'s public repetition of unbridled "I told you so" exultation leading toward commdification just proved his inauthentic motives. Immediately, once another's research opens a new exploitable market, you preemptively stake your claim in/of commandeered discourse. Hibbens "muck" has not been demonstrated to have any relationship to the YD sediments recently described (http://www.agu.org/meetings/sm07/sm07-sessions/sm07_PP41A.html ; http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6676461.stm ;http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/316/5829/1264?rss=1) At least your exposure of the information about these irridium-enriched desposits itself can prevent you from monopolizing the initially available supply of YD impact fallout sediments. YD impactities are probably microscopic, so dust, Grondine, is what you get - think Tunguska. -Thaddeus --- "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all - > > While Darren has little interest in samples from the > new impactite layer, I think that there is going to > be > a large market for them, including but not only for > classroom use. > > I don't know if a small plastic box with a magnifier > built into its lid (fresnel? or ordinary) could > provide sufficient enlargement. Could a two stage > plastic box with combined optics work? > > If one were to use microscope slides, they would > have > to have a tape binding of some sort, perhaps holding > a > graphic in place as well. > > Would school microscopes provide sufficient > magnification to see the spherules? Would toy > microscopes of the type commonly sold be capable of > doing it? > > Would one use some kind of suspension agent, such as > an oil, to make the spherules stand out? > > I am thinking that if samples of them can be easily > had, there are two other impactite layers, the K-T > and > the Chesapeake Bay, which perhaps might be marketed > the same way. > > good hunting, > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > > > > > > > > Need a vacation? Get great deals > to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > http://travel.yahoo.com/ > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hard (really stupid )
Individual skeletons, not entire collective burial of members of particular genetically tall groups, were interred in the fashion described by Dragoo. Not all Adena individuals where buried in mounds, and Adena socioeconomic structure was probably hierarchical. Exceptionally tall people may have enjoyed enhanced cultural significance and this significance may be reflected by the statistically disproportionate distribution of skeletal remains interred in mounds of individuals above two meters in height. An impact did not wipe out the Clovis people, but the fluted point style specialized for the killing and butchering of megafauna became extinct as a result of rapid reversion to glacial conditions and subsequent irreversible extinction of most megafauna. Until radiocarbon and stratigraphic analysis can define the duration and breadth of events directly preceding the rapid climatic change of the Younger Dryas, impacts will hold no assumed correlation to climatic change in that period. -Thaddeus --- "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all - > > Please feel free to delete this message immediately, > unless you think you might enjoy seeing Darren > getting > beaten, tied to a stake, and slowly roasted. In that > case, please feel free to join in. > > > From: Darren Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > No, I'm not "insulting your book", > > Yes you are, and you are insulting me and everyone > else here on the list who can read English. And your > denials just waste more of our time. > > > But I'm not as dumb as the crop > > circle and alien astronaut and Roswell aliens > crowd > > that have been giving you the interviews and > reviews > > that I've found on the web so far (what's that > about > > birds of a feather?) so I'm not going to be fooled > > by your asides. > > Those folks run late night radio, and their > listeners > buy books, and if I'm able to educate a few them as > to > real history and the real impact hazard and sell > books, all to the good. > > Particularly when I can hold Griffin's feet to the > fire before a couple of million listeners at the > same > time. Griffin's standing in contempt of the > Congress > right now for ignoring their instructions to find > the > next piece of stuff from space before it hits, while > at the same time wasting a lot of money on an insane > scheme to launch large nuclear reactors over Florida > for manned flight to Mars. > > But with the mess in Iraq, no one has the time to > call > him on it. I always give Griffin's number out to the > late night radio listeners who I speak to. Afraid? > Call Mike Griffin at NASA Headquarters: it's his job > to deal with this. > > >Here's the damn questions. Not insults. > > No, those came first. > > > > > Question 1-- By what means do you provide evidence > > that the creation myths you > > cite as being historical accounts are indeed > > accurate historical accounts? > > 1) Darren, the peoples' creation myths are different > than their traditions (histories). > > > Question 2-- By what means do you determine WHICH > > creation myths are accurate > > ancient history and which creation myths are just > > myths? > > 2) Well, aside from the fact that the two are pretty > clearly separated in Eastern cultural traditions, > one > relies on physical evidence. > > For example, having a nice layer of impactites > helps. > Otherwise you have to look for cultural > discontinuities, like the disappearance of Clovis, > and > then look for geological evidence of impact, such as > the layer of impactites. > > > Question 3-By what system do you determine that > the > > stories have been > > transmitted accurately over 13,000 years by this > > specific story... > > 3) see answer to 2, above. > > > And I > > will publicly apologize to you if you provide > > reasonable evidence to those > > questions. > > Yeah - I'm waiting, Darren, and so is everyone else > here, but we're not holding our breaths. > > >do you REALLY believe in a > > culture of 7 1/2 foot tall Native Americans, > > Darren, the standard introductory text on Adena > archeology, Dragoo's "Mounds for the Dead", > describes > Dragoo's and Neuman's excavations of just such a > culture and and its 7 and a half foot tall people. > This book is standard reading in all introductory > archeology courses in the east. > > Further, these seven and a half foot tall people > survived to European contact, and we have Captain > John > Smith's and others' accounts of them. (They're > included in my book.) > > It is a shame they were killed off by the Europeans, > otherwise we'd have had some great basketball teams. > > > > And a personal question to satisfy my > curiosity-are > > you a Native American? > > Because I can't understand another reason for you > to > > be accepting these accounts > > so uncritically unless they border or religion for > > you. > > I see. You can't handle the newly discovered > impactite > layer, so you
[meteorite-list] RCYBP
Jesus Christ, list. This is the last time. --- Thaddeus Besedin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > List, > I was abrupt by sending an unsolicited monologic > argument toward perpetual public access while I was between classes. > This is corrected for typographical (and other) > errors. > > > Well-dated fluted point sites (Clovis) seem to, > according to recent work in Clovis site chronology > bracketing (Waters and Stafford 1997 > http://dmc-news.tamu.edu/templates/?a=4202&z=0 ) > date > from a ~200-400 year period terminating abruptly at > the end of the last interstadial period preceding the Younger > Dryas Stadial (~12,900 - 11,500 calBP), or the Bolling-Allerod interstadial, preceded by the Older Dryas stadial extending, from pollen/spore records, 14,600 - 13,700 calBP in Hokkaido (~14,000 calBP - 13,500 calBP in Canada). The popular press does not usually catch > naive conflation of radiocarbon and calibrated > years, > even when > scientists are explicit about the distinction. > Archaeologists seem to make the same mistake on > occasion, > but often RCYBP is not indicated in source documents > that > may contain quoted/excerpted material. There > are no true, well-dated Clovis sites (with full > classic Clovis prismatic blade toolkit) dating from > after ~12,700 calBP, but Fluted point technology > persists. Clovis points were probably curated by > later > people, since their size made them visible to late > Pleistocene people, which then allowed them > continued > utility as functional biface knives. > Fluted point sites are numerous in the Eastern > United > States because of > environmental factors, not necessarily because of > a greater frequency of occupied sites, although > resource > abundance may have also permitted > population growth, or Clovis technology was more > frequently adopted by an original founding human > populations > in the East. Sedimentary > preservation of sites is more common on depositional > surfaces that have relatively > little relief. In Alaska, Younger Dryas Erosional > unconformity would be expected, > since this was a period of general valley floor > incision, followed by > rapid sedimentation beginning ~ 11,600 - 11,500 > calBP, > or at the initial Preboreal Holocene. Thus, the > differential preservation > between expansive depositional Eastern landscapes > and > proportionally less common > occupiable flat space in Western Valleys, subject to > greater > surface material loss due to greater mean slope > angle > (gravitational effect on unconsolidated > sediments)and > fire frequency (i.e. ground cover destruction) with > erosive flooding. Valley downcutting has obliterated > Bolling interstadial period > depositional surfaces on broad floodplains. The > record is skewed. > > Recently, Radiocarbon dates at the non-fluted-point, > non-microlithic Mesa site in Alaska > (http://www.blm.gov/heritage/adventures/research/StatePages/PDFs/lo_res_%20kunz%2014ap03.sep.pdf) > have returned dates both earlier and > contemporaneous > with Clovis (e.g. Beta-55236 [intact hearth]: 11,660 > +/- 80 14C YBP > returns the calibrated date of 13,431 +/- 141, or > [68% range 13C290 - 13572], and GX-26461: 12,240 > +/- > 610 > 14C YBP calibrates to 14718 +/- 1084 > for [68% calibrated range of 13634 - 15802 BP] > [CalPal2004_SFCP > QuickCal Ver. 1.3.1]) > > > Evidence of fluting has only been identified in the > Old World at the Uptar site in NE Siberia > (http://www.archaeology.org/9611/newsbriefs/uptar.html), > which may represent a late migration of North > American > toolmakers into Siberia, but may be also be evidence > of in situ convergent > development. The Uptar point has a contracting > stem-like base, and thus possibly shares a hafting > configuration with > Windust/Lake Mojave style late Pleistocene-early > Holocene forms, although Ushki (Eastern siberia) > points from Layer 7 (Ushki 1 initial occupational > 14C > date constraint: 11,820 } 100 BP, > 13736 } 159 calBP [68% calBP range: 13,577 - > 13,895] > CalPal_2007_HULU) include side-notched, > expanding base forms which are found in post-Windust > (after 9,000 BP) > assemblages in the Northwestern United states. A > late > influx of North American people > into Siberia may have curated representative > technologies of > both stemmed and fluted traditions, contemporaneous > in > North America, where terminal Pleistocene stemmed > point technology survived into the Holocene. > Basal thinning modification of hafted objects is > common in East Asia and the Old World at large > during > the Upper Paleolithic, appearing in Mous
[meteorite-list] RCYBP
er cultural or biological extinction is at best based on a post hoc fallacy. -Thaddeus --- Thaddeus Besedin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well-dated fluted point sites (Clovis) seem to, > according to recent work in clovis site chronology > bracketing (Waters and Stafford 1997 > http://dmc-news.tamu.edu/templates/?a=4202&z=0 ) > date > from an ~200-400 year period terminting abruptly by > the end of the last interglacial period, the Younger > Dryas Stadial, which is dated to ~12,900 - 11,500 > years ago. Popular press does not usually catch > their > naive confuaion of radiocarbon and calibrated years. > Archaeologists seem to make the same mistake. There > are no true, well-dated Clovis sites (with full > classis Clovis prismatic blade toolkit) dating from > after ~12,900 cal BP, but Fluted point technology > persists. Clovis points were probably curated by > later > people, since their size made them visible to late > Pleistocene people, which then allowed the continued > use of functional bifaces (ofetn of great size). > Fluted point sites proliferate in the east because > of > environmental factors, not necessarily because a > greater frequency of sites occurs. Sedimentary > preservation of sites is more common in places of > lower relief, like Florida. The record is skewed. > > Recently, Radiocarbon dates at the non-fluted-point, > non-microlithic Mesa site in Alska > (http://www.blm.gov/heritage/adventures/research/StatePages/PDFs/lo_res_%20kunz%2014ap03.sep.pdf) > have returned dates both earlier and > contemporaneous > with Clovis (e.g. Beta-55236 (intact hearth): 11,660 > +/- 80 14C YBP > returns the calibrated date of 13,431 +/- 141, or > 2-sigma 13290 - 13572, and GX-26461: 12,240 +/- 610 > 14C YBP calibrates to 14718 +/- 1084 > for a 2-sigma calibrated range of 13634 - 15802 BP > [CalCurve: CalPal2004_SFCP > QuickCal Ver. 1.3.1]) > > > the removal of fluting flakes has only occured in > the > Old World at the Uptar site in NE Siberia > (http://www.archaeology.org/9611/newsbriefs/uptar.html), > which may represent a late migration of North > American > toolmakers into Siberia, but may be an in situ > development. The Uptar point has a contracting > stem-like base, similar to well-represented Ushki > and > Windust/Lake Mojave style late Pleistocene-early > Holocene forms. A late influx of North American > people > into Siberia may have iincluded representatives of > both stemmed and fluted traditions, contemporaneous > in > North America, where terminal Pleistocene stemmed > point technology survived into the Holocene. Basal > thinning of hafted objects is common in East Asia > from > the Upper Paleolithic. The preference by fluted > point > makers for a common bifacial thinning style which > produces outrepasse flake terminations to define > biface edges opposing the striking platforms of > removed surface does not make Clovis technology > similar to any Western European tradition, such as > the > Solutrean tradition. Clovis is late, brief, and > often > invisible, since projectile point forms can hardly > define a "culture." > -Thaddeus > --- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Alaskan Muck, Tsunamis, and Hibben Revisited Part > 3 > > (Long) > > > > Note: my previous post in this series can be found > > at: > > > http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2007-June/035570.html > > , > > > http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2007-July/036230.html > > , > > and > > > http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2007-August/037069.html > > > > In the thread "[meteorite-list] Intro the muck > once > > again", > > Mr. Grondine wrote: > > > > "I wrote: > > > > "That point may be placed between say about 45,000 > > > BCE and 8,249 BCE.?" > > > > Paul wrote: > > > > "Contrary to what Mr. Grondine claims above, none > of > > the projectile points reported by Hibben (1943) > has > > been dated as being older 11,000 BP." > > > > What I claimed was "between". Last time I checked > > 11,000 BP came between 45,000 BCE and 8,249 BCE. > > But then perhaps its new math, or new archaeology, > > or > > something else. I go with something else." > > > > Again, the fact of the matter is that there is a > > complete lack of any > > evidence for Pale-Indian points older than 11,000 > to > > 13,000 BP, > > if you include recent discoveries in Maryland > that > > were announced > > after my last post. Althoug
Re: [meteorite-list] Alaskan Muck, Tsunamis, and RCYB (radiocarbon years)
Well-dated fluted point sites (Clovis) seem to, according to recent work in clovis site chronology bracketing (Waters and Stafford 1997 http://dmc-news.tamu.edu/templates/?a=4202&z=0 ) date from an ~200-400 year period terminting abruptly by the end of the last interglacial period, the Younger Dryas Stadial, which is dated to ~12,900 - 11,500 years ago. Popular press does not usually catch their naive confuaion of radiocarbon and calibrated years. Archaeologists seem to make the same mistake. There are no true, well-dated Clovis sites (with full classis Clovis prismatic blade toolkit) dating from after ~12,900 cal BP, but Fluted point technology persists. Clovis points were probably curated by later people, since their size made them visible to late Pleistocene people, which then allowed the continued use of functional bifaces (ofetn of great size). Fluted point sites proliferate in the east because of environmental factors, not necessarily because a greater frequency of sites occurs. Sedimentary preservation of sites is more common in places of lower relief, like Florida. The record is skewed. Recently, Radiocarbon dates at the non-fluted-point, non-microlithic Mesa site in Alska (http://www.blm.gov/heritage/adventures/research/StatePages/PDFs/lo_res_%20kunz%2014ap03.sep.pdf) have returned dates both earlier and contemporaneous with Clovis (e.g. Beta-55236 (intact hearth): 11,660 +/- 80 14C YBP returns the calibrated date of 13,431 +/- 141, or 2-sigma 13290 - 13572, and GX-26461: 12,240 +/- 610 14C YBP calibrates to 14718 +/- 1084 for a 2-sigma calibrated range of 13634 - 15802 BP [CalCurve: CalPal2004_SFCP QuickCal Ver. 1.3.1]) the removal of fluting flakes has only occured in the Old World at the Uptar site in NE Siberia (http://www.archaeology.org/9611/newsbriefs/uptar.html), which may represent a late migration of North American toolmakers into Siberia, but may be an in situ development. The Uptar point has a contracting stem-like base, similar to well-represented Ushki and Windust/Lake Mojave style late Pleistocene-early Holocene forms. A late influx of North American people into Siberia may have iincluded representatives of both stemmed and fluted traditions, contemporaneous in North America, where terminal Pleistocene stemmed point technology survived into the Holocene. Basal thinning of hafted objects is common in East Asia from the Upper Paleolithic. The preference by fluted point makers for a common bifacial thinning style which produces outrepasse flake terminations to define biface edges opposing the striking platforms of removed surface does not make Clovis technology similar to any Western European tradition, such as the Solutrean tradition. Clovis is late, brief, and often invisible, since projectile point forms can hardly define a "culture." -Thaddeus --- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Alaskan Muck, Tsunamis, and Hibben Revisited Part 3 > (Long) > > Note: my previous post in this series can be found > at: > http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2007-June/035570.html > , > http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2007-July/036230.html > , > and > http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2007-August/037069.html > > In the thread "[meteorite-list] Intro the muck once > again", > Mr. Grondine wrote: > > "I wrote: > > "That point may be placed between say about 45,000 > BCE and 8,249 BCE.?" > > Paul wrote: > > "Contrary to what Mr. Grondine claims above, none of > the projectile points reported by Hibben (1943) has > been dated as being older 11,000 BP." > > What I claimed was "between". Last time I checked > 11,000 BP came between 45,000 BCE and 8,249 BCE. > But then perhaps its new math, or new archaeology, > or > something else. I go with something else." > > Again, the fact of the matter is that there is a > complete lack of any > evidence for Pale-Indian points older than 11,000 to > 13,000 BP, > if you include recent discoveries in Maryland that > were announced > after my last post. Although there artifacts older > than 13,000 BP > have been found in the New World, none of them are > the type of > Pale-Indian artifacts, which Hibben (1943) discussed > having found > in Alaska. Thus, your age range from 45,000 BCE and > 8,249 BCE > is completely wrong. This is well documented in > innumerable papers > and textbooks, which Mr. Grondine either has not > bothered to read > or simply ignores because they completely refute his > pet theories. > For the details, a person can go look at: > > Haynes, C. V., Fluted Projectile Points: Their Age > and Dispersion. > Science. vol. 145, no. 3639, pp. 1408-1413. > > Holliday, V. T., 2000, The evolution of Paleoindian > geochronology > and typology on the Great Plains. Geoarchaeology. > vol. 15, no. 3, > pp. 227-290. > > Holliday, V. T., C. V. Haynes, J. L. Hofman and D. > J. Meltzer, > 1994, Geoarchaeology and Geochronology of the Miami > (Clovis) > Site, Southern High Plains of Texas. Quater
[meteorite-list] GPS: Channels, post-processing, DGPS and AD at bottom
Note: I support the unregulated copying and distribution of copyrighted materials, including music, software, and scientific literature. Garmin is the preponderant marketer and manufacturer of commercial recreational/navigational GPS devices, and so information regarding comparison to under-represented alternatives that are equal to or better than Garmin products is less commonly available than biased pro-Garmin Internet presence. Delorme Blue Logger GPS is a bluetooth-operated data logger with a SiRF IIe/LP low-power 12-channel chipset with WAAS DGPS capability (a single channel). It can log raw SiRF protocol binary data, with L1 carrier phase, C1 pseudorange, and D1 doppler encoding, which can be converted using the included software into RAW data, permitting differential post-processing against data, available online, from DGPS stationary continuous reference stations, once the RAW file is converted into RINEX using proprietary DeLorme software. 2.45-sigma accuracy is <1m, but, in open places, accuracy of <0.75m is possible. DeLorme is a little protective of its slight market share, so it packages its GPS Postpro 2.0 software with an Earthmate GPS receiver, which, if I am correct, must be used as a hardware key with the Delorme software. Warez are illusive and/or non-working. SiRF binary protocol is modified in the Delorme version of the RAW data file with proprietary sentences. An attempt to translate these in Mac OS X is at Sourceforge (http://bluelog.cvs.sourceforge.net/bluelog/). A comparison demonstrating the excellent accuracy of the Blue Logger against a Trimble Pathfinder Pro XR sub-meter beacon-based DGPS unit is at http://academic.sun.ac.za/forestry/precision/papers/39.pdf. I would recommend, rather than Garmin, the Magellan explorist-series 14 channel receivers(with dual WAAS channel receiver dedication) I have used these since 2005, and in non-forrested preliminary archaeological survey of land, are nearly always accurate to <2m (with sufficient satellite signal/channel activity). These are available for very low prices, and are certainly more accurate than the non-post-processed Garmin receivers of the same class (like the etrex series). Magellan receivers of this series cannot be post-processed. Garmin, if its binary data stream is logged, can be converted to RINEX for post-processing. I am not sure of the post-processed accuracy. Garmin data can be converted to RINEX using GRINGO software (http://www.helenav.nl/, http://gpsinformation.net/pseudorange.htm, http://www.ultimategps.com/garmin_gps_software.html). By the way, I have a Magellan eXplorist 200 (14-channel WAAS, <3m) receiver for sale, in excellent working and good cosmetic condition (some abrasions and minor scratches). I want $40. -Thaddeus Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Arrowheads from NWA - post-Pleistocene
The small projectile points of the varieties usually illicitly exported from Northern and Western Saharan sites are technologically Mesolithic and Neolithic; as such, most were produced after the dissemination of animal husbandry, ceramics, and the bow, and were thus produced after ~10,000 - 9,000 BP. There is evidence that the bow had an earlier introduction in localized variations of lithic assemblages of this period - small projectile points of the Capsian Epipaleolithic (Mesolithic) period may have been used as arrow points. There is evidence of atlatl(spearthrower) use in Africa as early as 25,000 BP, so most upper Paleolithic-Epipaleolithic (Mesolithic) objects from the Western Sahara classified as projectile points were probably used to tip dart projectiles launched from atlatls, and are metrically equivalent to atlatl points in use in the Americas, where historical documentation by colonial Europeans of their use exists (e.g. Aztec weapon technology). Looted projectile points that have been common on the antiquities market recently are not typically the long, narrow lanceolate and often unifacial late Ibero-Maurisian (Oranian) projectiles (with parallel-oblique flaking) that are quite similar to Magdalenian objects, but are instead small (<3cm in length), bifacial, and barbed/stemmed or triangular with concave or convex bases, although small, often serrated bipointed and elliptical lanceolate forms exist. Both Oranian and Magdalenian cultures are contemporaneous, with the Oranian usually considered to begin between the end of the Oldest Dryas and the onset of the Bølling Interstadial in the Blytt-Sernander system, approximimately 15,000 BP, and terminating with at the approximate initial Neothermal Atlantic(Holocene)Atlantic period, when Capsian Mesolithic (Epipaleolithic) industries superseded Oranian Mesolithic industries in the archaeological record (the Oranian Ibero-Maurisian-Capsian transition is classified, as a chronological stage, independently of European Mesolithic stages - the term 'Epipaleolithic' is applied instead). Magdalenian technological components range in age from ca. 18,000 BP (Würm Glacial Maximum)to ca. 11,000 BP (terminal Pleistocene). Climatic correlation between those environmental changes stimulating technological innovation in Northwestern Africa (Oranian sites occur from Libya to Morocco) and stadial/interstadial events in Europe have not been adequately explored, so the Blytt-Sernander system is used for convenience, since a Mediterranean coastal focus is common to sites in Northwest Africa with artifacts common to Oranian industries, thus eustasy had direct impact on Oranian settlement patterns and resource exploitation. Like Magdalenian industries, Oranian industries produced blade (linear flake) tools, and when these non-microlithic tools are predominant in single components of Oranian lithic assemblages, these assemblages are properly considered to be the products of late Upper Paleolithic industries. With the inclusion of microblade technologies in both Oranian and Magdalenian assemblages, these assemblages are classified as Mesolithic/Epipaleolithic; hafted, highly standardized microblade-based lithic objects, which were inserted in series into organic handles are abundant in Mesolithic contexts from Europe to Alaska, although most organic artifacts presumed to have been present upon deposition of assemblages have disintegrated. A distinction between Capsian Mesolithic and Capsian Neolithic industries must be recognized, with ceramics, in use beginning ~7,000 BP, a diagnostic artifact of the Capsian Neolithic, which existed in the middle Atlas region of Algeria from 6,200 5,300 BP (http://www.reference-wordsmith.com/cgi-bin/lookup.cgi?exact=1&terms=Neolithic). Anyway, any projectile points predating 13,000 BP are unsuitable for hafting as arrow points due to excessive weight and length, and Capsian Neolithic sites, producing the small, exquisitely-crafted projectile points familiar to us, are found from Tunisia (where the type site, Jabal al-Maqta, is located, on the shore of a salt lake) to Morocco. This explains the intersection of meteorite collection and artifact looting in Morocco and Algeria. You will find that the morphology of projectile points acquired from Moroccan dealers is almost always typical of these later types. The Sahara is not all uninhabitable dunes and barren rock, and did not undergo desertification at the same rate everywhere. Today, wetlands are still extant throughout the Western Sahara, with perennial freshwater and brackish pools and wetlands in the Atlas Mountain region where Capsian culture flourished. -Thaddeus --- "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Sterling, list - > > Bessey's "arrowheads" are likely far older than > 13,000-9,000 years old (11,000 BCE - 7,000 BCE). The > Sahara begins to dry up at the start of the Holocene > by 8,350 BCE at the latest. (Atlantic impact.) The > impact that p
Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: Magnetic rock with free metal inclusions, any idea?
It appears to be a terrestrial micro-norite, which can contain much metal. Free metal is rare in gabbroic/noritic rock, but does occur. Rocks of the gabbroic and noritic compositions are mafic, and thus contain a relatively high iron content. The mineral assemblage in norite is mainly ca-plagioclase (labradorite), hypersthene (pyroxene), and minor olivine. -Thaddeus PolandMET <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here you can find some pictures: > http://web.tiscali.it/francesco.moser/outside.jpg > http://web.tiscali.it/francesco.moser/slice.jpg > http://web.tiscali.it/francesco.moser/metal.jpg > > Any idea is welcome :-) !! Matteo lost his newly found italian mars rock in your garden ? You was lucky to find it but now he know where he lost it :D -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Commercialization, meteorite coins and other ridiculous wastes of time
As collectors, we are curators, conservators, and stewards. As long as we keep our provenience information, our collections are just as important, in their effect, as museum collections. The difference is that museums are non-profit repositories that can't make a move, meaning accession and deaccession, without complete records kept. At least, this is the ideal. "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, Rob, OK, you can stuff the Natural History Museum with all the meteorites you can find, but when London falls to the barbarian hordes in 2714 AD, and one can see the NHM in one great writhing pyre of flame with the silhouettes of wild horsemen all about, howling with joy and waving their spears topped with the severed heads of curators... don't say I didn't warn you. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: "Rob McCafferty" To: "Sterling K. Webb" ; Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Commercialization, meteorite coins and other ridiculous wastes of time A great post Sterling. I kinda knew the Library of Alexandria was coming as soon as you mentioned the two possible methods of safeguarding. Qhile the curation and storing of these artifacts in institutions is vitally important, that they are locked away invisible to all but a select few is a travesty. I'm proud to show off my limited collection to anyone who shows an interest. Who is doing science the greater service? OK it's the Natural History Museum, isn't it...Well I'm doing my bit! Rob McC __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Commercialization, meteorite coins and other ridiculous wastes of time
Jake, Indeed propaganda is important, but it should be provided at no charge if it is the preservation and dissemination of knowledge that is desired. A meteorite coin is no better a fetish than a meteorite itself, accompanied with accessible information. In defense of academic repositories, the curation of specimens safeguards scientifically-important materials from the fate of commodities; too bad commodification has been a necessary evil in permitting the accessibility we enjoy in our pursuit of possession of meteorites. -Thaddeus Jake Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ive read the messages about this subject bantered about. First I have a problem with scientific repositories and museums. I like to be able to look closely at what I choose and not what some academic wants to spoon feed me. My mind can process more than a few selected pieces on certain subjects. If you ask to see a particular piece or subject the stock answer is youll have to make an appointment or that is scheduled for March two years from now. I may never get back to see it. In a lot of cases I helped fund it with taxes. It isnt right that a few employees and scientists are the only people allowed to see, touch and experience these wonders of our world. Yes institutes rescue and preserve items but for what? So the articles can sit in a drawer, box or bottle for years and the building finally burns down and nothing is left? Its selfish and self serving. I like the way that museums used to be. Everything they had was on display. I grew up in Iowa and as a child in the 1960s spent days in the Iowa State Capitol Museum looking at everything from civil war relics, stuffed animals, American Indian garments of the 17-1800s to Dr. Beans one of a kind fossil plates. Dr. Bean was a dentist who spent years extracting crinoid (sp) colonies from limestone parent material. His works have a world wide reputation. When we went to Iowa on vacation in 1999 I wanted to show my husband Dr Beans fossils but the answer was thats not available . . . . . I was truly disappointed there wasnt a single fossil on display. With the individual collector (or dealer) that doesnt happen. People are proud of what they have found, traded for or purchased. Most are more than willing to share their knowledge with adults and children. If you have seen the wonder in a childs eyes when they look at crystals, meteorites, or even common rocks you know what I mean. Many children and adults who are curious will never make it to a museum or a big city. Many dont have the funds or physical ability to get there. Many children have parents who just dont care or are chemically addicted. If a small meteorite is purchased or given to a rural grade school or an inner city school and ignites a passion in one child and that child turns off the tv, violent video games or cell phone to find a meteorite, rocks or get outside to learn about geology or nature - thats success. Thats what sharing and education is about. If we want a better world we have to cultivate the minds of children as one cultivates a garden. They will eventually be taking care of us. So all of you who see this subject from the perspective of a large metropolitan city dweller or a person of science who lives in an intellectual vacuum try and look at the subject and world from another perspective. Put your egos, opinions and bias aside and do what benefits the most people. You all have experience, education and knowledge to share. Leave the fertilizer in the garden. Barb Baker Show Low, Arizona (50 miles from Holbrook) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] meteorite coins and other ridiculous wastes of time
List, Do we need Franklin Mint-esque coins to hype the insuperable wonder of actual meteoritic material free of made-to-order home shopping network (no trademark) gimmick? These rank amongst the greatest achievements of Mike Farmer, capitalist of little self-control and imagination. Give us rocks, and that's it: you sell rocks. Collectors can become humorously obsessive when all reference to our target interests are accepted. Coins will distract from oxidation, reduction, recrystallization, and chondrules. -Thaddeus Besedin - It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT - Insulting my service at the president's pleasure
American presidents are expendable - what do you think elections do? Longer terms possible in congress are preferable for the purpose of long-term law-mongering, the "work" of professional politicians - lobbying does the talking, and legislation is the architecture of social order and political identity. Democratic political economy itself can have no central political apex without contradicting democratic ideals. Social contracts are mutual. It is common for naive nationalists to uncritically and nostalgically conflate George W. Bush's inspirationally divisive, ship-sinks-with-its-captain ignorance with its historical precedent: the patently non-American authoritative model of a (monarchistic) prestigious demagogue linked intrinsically to historically-generative/generated ideological superstructure of legitimation. Bush is then a surrogate for the indignation of anti-egalitarian militants, the reactive analogue of Islamist terror leaders. Let an American non-democrat remind you: Bush is not the State. Nor is any president. The State has discredited Bush because he has discredited the State. "My" president: possessive case, or possessed by one's case? All preponderant politicians are disingenuous at worst and megalomaniacal at best, and necessarily demonstrate messianic tendencies. Otherwise, the political agent's unequivocal nucleic authoritative stability would in effect be precluded by self-reflexive-ambivalent discourse, testing the faith of the constituency and promoting popular alteration to state paradigms. In Bush's defense, he is known to necessarily poke fun at his own shortcomings, but his performance of the character of 'president' is hopelessly unsupported by his political-economic experience. The extent of his reflexivity is self-preserving in strategic purpose, not Machiavellian leave that to Cheney. America is negatively represented by the figure of the person Bush - an ersatz rancher and corporate refugee. History will do the insulting that any one critic can only idly iterate. -Thaddeus Besedin McCartney Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I take offense at you calling my president a plain stupid idiot. He's clearly not that bright. -mt IMCA 2760 On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 06:28 -0700, drtanuki wrote: > That man was mentally insane > unlike George Bush who is just a plain stupid idiot > and a fascist pig. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Misinformation in Meteorite Times Magazine/Nevada Picture of the day/ unreported Nevada meteorites
Adam, "Antique" applies to cultural artifacts, and artifacts represent sites - places - often without surviving architecture, so must be treated like components of an architecture of events;often, lithics (flaked/ground tools and production waste) and ceramics are the only record of the life of humans in North America and their astonishing survival in extreme environments without the conveniences that we enjoy, which today permit uncontrolled collection for personal gain and vulgar trophies, so should only be removed if threatened, with an interest in dedicated research, and with positional control - as well as permission. These artifacts are not treasure in the commercial sense; we would not remove marble columns from Greek ruins, or stelae from an Egyptian temple. -Thaddeus Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear List, I can understand the reluctance to report meteorite finds in the Mojave with such gray areas in the law surrounding the finds. You can talk to ten different authorities and get ten different answers. A big part of the problem is that there are several overlapping laws, both state and federal that do not seem to address meteorites directly. There is the other problem that some groups make up junk to scare off other hunters. Here are some terms that I find ambiguous at best: Antique - anything over 100 years old. This would apply to water which was brought here by comets billions a years ago or vitually any mineral unless you are searching near an active valcano. Of scientific value - This could apply to dog crap in some circumstances. For non-commercial purposes - This makes sense to me but what happens to the 250 pounds a year of minerals that were pulled from federal land for non-commercial purposes that were deemed legal when somebody passes on? What if the finders offspring has no interest in collecting meteorites and wants to sell them? I was also told that federal agents do monitor eBay for hunters selling Mojave meteorites for commercial purposes. I have no problem with this since I keep all of my finds regardless of what type of treasure hunting I am involved with. The only exception is to return a lost piece of jewelry if the rightful owner can be found or when something has historic value, in which case, I will turn it over to a museum. I have been treasure hunting for 32 years and feel it is better to work with authorities whenever possible. Luckily the treasure hunting community has a code of ethics that saved the hobby which almost went extinct in the 70s because of property abuses. Artifact - I agree that Native American artifacts should be left alone in designated areas, it simply is not worth the consequences of removal. Not only that, they represent very little value to the finder who will probably ending up throwing them in a box and forgetting about them. In this case, I find the hunt to be more exciting than the acquisition. I know it is difficult not to pick up points or shards of pottery when encountered (I know first hand) but feel it would be better to take images of them next to a GPS and report them. After all, the main fun is in the hunt and most of us are after meteorites which are legal to bring out under most circumstances, up to 250 pounds a year if you are lucky. I feel it is better to call ahead and find out what laws govern certain areas before hunting. I found out last week, it is illegal to carry a magnet on a stick into a designated site containing artifacts in California. I was told this while getting a permit to legally enter and camp on Ivanpah. I know a lot of these laws are being twisted to govern meteorites, were written for minerals and have only been enforced once in regards to meteorites but feel it would be better to operate in a open environment until these laws can be challenged in Federal or Supreme Court to clarify them. Best Regards, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Oh Boy- Here we go....
Let's all laigh at the arrest of one who is an other. It takes our minds from our own failures. You can spell "rectum" on this list, although I'm not a proctologist. Mike Groetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Fox news is just now reporting that a certain foreign national was arrested at LAX airport with wires hanging off of him. Upon further investigation, they found a piece of chewing gum, some more wire and a rock in his "XXX". As the suspect put it- "the rock is from another planet" and was in there to protect him OK- lets say it is a meteorite ;-) -what will be the official name of the location found? -what lab will(want?)do an analysis on it? -how long until it winds up on eBay? -will it replace the current urgent need for Gao pieces? I needed a grin tonight- this was it. Take care Mike Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW LUNAR monzogabbro meteorite looks like aShergottite
Weathering processes on the moon are primarily related to solar and impact
processes, so mantle material, as well as intrusive monzogabbroic material
equivalent to mugearitic rock in extrusive terrestrial contexts will have been
present on the lunar surface in variable concentrations in respect to magnitude
of impact, although relationships of impact intensity to depth of specific
geologic materials is not determinate, since plutonic bodies of mafic
composition are not restricted to any depth on earth at all times, and basaltic
extrusive expressions of chemical compositions rich in ferromagnessian minerals
(noritic and gabbroic rock) are exceedingly common here. This new lunar
material seems to be hypabyssal macroscopically, which may account for the
reported subjective responses of certain members of the meteoritical community
of similarity to shergottites, which are related to extrusive and hypabyssal
intrusive activity on mars.
Martin Altmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Rob,
".. Meteorites have, at least the potential to come from
deeper than the long weathered surface materials
brought back by the Apollo crews. This all makes sense
to me, if it is a confirmed discovery."
You're right Rob,
For example the pairing group around Dho 310-breccias has some spinel,
indicating that those parts of the breccia stem from the deeper lunar crust
(>20km), see here:
http://www.meteorites.ru/menu/publication-e/demidova-ms2003-e.pdf
Or take the fresher granulite NWA 3163/4483, which is suggested to be a
crustal rock, practically not sampled by the Apollo missions:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2006/pdf/1365.pdf
Best
Martin
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Rob
McCafferty
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Februar 2007 23:10
An: gipometeorites; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW LUNAR monzogabbro meteorite looks like
aShergottite
I am not going to claim any authority in the area of
geology but I will claim a good experience of
Anorthosite, a principle constituent of the lunar
surface. The Isle of Harris, the next island down from
me [is actually connected to my island, Lewis, by a
land bridge] has an entire mountain made from the
stuff, despite it's rare nature and I've collected
plenty of it to decorate my garden.
It weathers by ice and abrasion to the same gorgeous
white colour of the genesis rock brought back by the
Apollo 15 crew. This is not surprising since their
rock was weathered on the outside too, but that stone
was impact weathered only.
Inside the rocks from harris they are remarkably
crystaline, quite grey in appearance and U took the
liberty of borrowing a lathe[?] to polish a small
section of a chunk i rather brutally chipped off with
a chisel. Apart from the colour, it looks very like a
piece of SAU008/005, a shergottite.
In all honesty and with hindsight, it does not
surprise me that a lunar meteorite may well look like
a martian one.
Anorthosite I believe, is a plutonic rock and since
most of the white part of the moon is made from it,
the only surpise to me, after thinking about it, is
that one that looks like a shergottite has not been
discovered before.
I suggest that aeons of impacts on the moon do not
leave big enough chunks near the surface to preserve
the structure of the rock and that is why we haven't
seen one before. Having said that, we've only really
been looking for a few years.
Meteorites have, at least the potential to come from
deeper than the long weathered surface materials
brought back by the Apollo crews. This all makes sense
to me, if it is a confirmed discovery.
In a differentiated body the size of the moon and
mars, I think, in retrospect, we should not be
surprised at all.
Obviously, if this turns out to be a hoax, I absolve
myself of all I have said here on the grounds that I
have never heard of monzogabbro before. Gabbro is just
a feldspar with less than 60% or is it 40%[?]
anorthosite. What the frip does monzo mean? I thought
he was a character in the muppet show.
Rob McC
{the man with a million tons of fake moon rock}
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[meteorite-list] Jesus Christ: Let us talk about meteorites - your favorable markets are an escape from overspending
List, Are you collectors in the trivial sense (hoarders of curiosities)? Stop telling yourselves that your role is equal to that of scientific analysts if you keep a market in your focus. Learn about rocks. Earth is in space. -Thaddeus - Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite kills two nomads in India
A jingoist spoke. India is gaining on us. Darren Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, 8 Feb 2007 09:22:51 -0500, you wrote: >Wow! > >How accurate this news can be? Is The Hindu newspaper a serious paper or >something like The Inquierer? Whenever a science-related article is googled up from an Indian newspaper, I get the feeling that all of their newspapers are like The Inquirer. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hair of Steve Arnold, Brenham
... how generous! What about a meteorite? mccartney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all from sunny Tucson! Finally it warmed up, here. The Yearly Birthday Bash was a BLAST! Pity to all those who missed it. It was so packed the building security had to limit admitance and locked the doors. About 15 people were stuck outside. But back to HAIR. Oh do I have a treat for you! I was able to get Steve Arnold, of Brenham fame into selling a lock of his oh-so-sexy WORLD FAMOUS METEORITE HUNTER's hair. And for a good cause... We're talking, PREMO uber rare Carbonaceous hair! With PROVINANCE! Comes with a signed and dated document to the removal of said Carbonaceous slice off of his swollen cranium. Imagine this glorious specimen for your collection! With Specimin card! Truely, a piece worthy as the centerpiece of any collection. This lock of hair will be put on eBay upon my return to Austin. The proceeds of this auction will be donated to the Walter Branch cause via Maria. Is this not a worthy cause? So to one and all... don't pass up this opportunity to get a piece of Steve Arnold, Brenham! -mt IMCA 2760 Sent via the WebMail system at blackbearddata.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Stollen 865g Achondrites - Moroccan v. 'merican? Children, children
Mike and Bob, ... spoken like true chauvinists. This Moroccan is not all "internet Moroccans," and Mike, you are speaking from the perspective of a retailer who can purchase wholesale. The people that make it possible for you to be profitable may not have the luxury of capital and connections; they have poverty and you have a dollar - and I've seen your prices! All it takes, you think, is your "expert" comparison of purchased stones to previously classified stones to make promote the lowly unclassified rock to an echelon of profitability. Bob, so, Moroccans can't expect to ever earn as much as we commodity-dealing, marginally educated American non-scientists? They're all the same? What's next - a pogrom? Examine the implications of your careless, crude exclusionary logic. When will you stop ignoring my emails and answer my questions about your "NWA 1110" specimens? Did you ever have them examined by someone who may be more competent than yourself? -thaddeus Bob wrote: Mr. sryfjnstryj tsyjhdteyjh, Please spare us the poor Moroccan BS. The last time I purchased multi kilos from a internet Moroccan, more than 30% turned out to be non- meteoritic. Who is really getting ripped off ?? Mike wrote: $35.00 gram for a howardite from Morocco? My friend, I will sell you about 10 KILOGRAMS of them right now for that price, I will get on an airplane and come to Morocco this week and hand deliver them to you if you will pay me that price! Give me a break. Mike Farmer --- sryfjnstryj tsyjhdteyjh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Greetings Listees. > > First,i hope that Mr Rob Elliotte changed his mind, > and Matt shutted up. > Now,i would not tell whos that man who stole the > 865g achondrites,but i can do it if he doesn't do > what he should do and pay the poor man ,the real > owner of the 865g achondrites. > > Morrocans started dealing via internet many years > ago.some meteorites dealers took that way to get > their customers,many of them choosed the option of > "ship in advance" with no payment for buyers.those > poor Moroccan lost thousands of dollars because of > that option. > > I heard that a Morocan dealer,had many customers > whom have been stolling his money for a long time. > that poor man had an agreement about some stones,of > course with no payment in advance,it's very easy > that a Moroccan to trust a foriegner than a > Moroccan person,but not always.unfortunatly this is > the way we are. > Anyway, X is a collector from US,got the package > safe,he didn't agree some stones which he returned > them back.but the expensive one(865g achondrites)was > not returned back,it was bought for 10400Dhs cash in > hands"real deals". > X told the Moroccan dealer that the 865g achondrites > is a Howardite stone,but didn't pay any sent until > now !!!also some stones i don't know how > many,but they are stollen too. > The Howardite stone was not showed up on Web,i'm > sure that the X prefered to keep it for his private > Collection or sold it to a friend to him. > The howardites,you can get cheaper on Ebay for $35 > so 35x865g = $30275 - 20g for the laboratory and the > rest when cutting and polishing(lets suppose 200g); > $35x865 = $30275 - (200x35) = $23275 - (20x35) = > $23275- $700 = $22575 = 180600.00 MAD with that > amount you can buy even a fine house in a very nice > city in Morocco or a Toyota RAV4 good situation. > I have some questions for X : > - How did you feel when you got paid on the 865g > Achondrites? > - Why you stole a Poor man? you are rish you have no > needs. > - Can you change your mind and pay the poor man? > For list members. > Can you guess whos that X ? i can help > He is 60 years old. a Collector ! > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 869 - Ugly duckling with a heart of gold
I couldn't agree more! My specimen (two halves of a single completely-crusted, well-preserved individual) will remain with me even as I unload many of my rarer stones, having nearly 10% of its cut brecciated surface area occupied by a dark inclusion, and the remainder shared rather evenly by two dissimilar, completely distinct quasi-unequilibrated regions of creamy L4-5 and blue-grey L3.7-4, consisting mostly of large, opaque white undeformed chondrules (arguably appearing like a 3.7 fabric in other stones). -Thaddeus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NWA 869 is one of those Hot Desert meteorites whose beauty has often been undervalued just because there is so much of it available and because some of these specimens are weathered or look "ugly". Fellow list member Christian Anger and several other collectors are the proud owners of extremely beautiful NWA 869 individuals with stunningly fresh crusts and breathtaking interiors. As for the "heart of gold", just look at the RFS picture of the day for March 27th, 2006. It shows my NWA 869 thin section in cross-polarized light. Now, if this is "ugly", then I do not know what ugly is ;-) It's one of my thin section favorites! See it here: http://www.spacerocksinc.com/March_27.html Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Polujamki/Markovka pairing: second try
Polujamki and Markovka fell within kilometers of each other and share all macroscopic petrographic features except for two striking differences: Polujamki, in photos I have found and in my specimen, seems to have, almost without exception, a much higher frequency of >3mm pools of coalesced Fe-Ni, as well as relatively more extensive shock veining/brecciation. Is this simply an observation made from a specific paired stone that became available recently? Can the amount of elemental metal dissemination in the original meteoroidal body have been bimodally segregated due to localized shock, contributing to the differences in trajectory of individual fragments of the stone as a result of explosive aerial fragmentation? ___Total Iron Content__ Polujamki: 25.69 % http://www.crystalencounters.com.au/poluyamki.html Markovka: 25.48% http://www.minresco.com/meteor/meteor10.htm -Thaddeus __ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] steve arnold/Steve Arnold - There're two of you? I apologize.
Dave, Steve(s), and list, My ordinary interests, coupled with a shortage of time during regular semesters, limit the threads I read and contribute to (detract from?) - winter break gives me time to participate. Chicago Steve seems to write more frequently than Brenham Steve, and Steve Arnold of Brenham fame has been quiet through this, so, without making a content-based distinction, I prematurely wrote. Steve Arnold with capitals hopefully didn't find this insulting, but of course I can't deny that I associated the dealer in one with the quirks in another - so I guess this should be aimed at both Steves, and not a self-contradictory composite. Maybe seeing the Travel Channel sequence will ingrain a different picture of the man. I'll pay attention in the future before I shoot off my fingers (wait - that doesn't work - or it replaces the cliche "put my foot in my mouth"). -Thaddeus Dave Freeman mjwy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The CHICAGO Ssteevveee is an idiot and I am very surprised that an academian as your vocabulary points you out to be would be so duped to as not to see this outright. I also think your elementary mistake of confusing the two persons shows your real level of list involvement. The list archives would be your friend if you took the time to read them. Dave F. Thaddeus Besedin wrote: List, I apologize for confusing the two Steves, but I mean what I write. Could the lack of capitalization be an attempt to show this distinction? Or, is "Chicago" enough? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Polujamki and Markovka H4 chondrites: unofficially paired?
I have cut/polished specimens, purchased from Finland, of Polujamki and Markovka. They fell within kilometers of each other and share all macroscopic petrographic features except for one striking difference: Polujamki, in photos I have found and in my specimen, seems to have, almost without exception, a much higher frequency of >3mm pools of coalesced Fe-Ni. Is this simply an observation made from a specific paired stone that became available recently? Can the amount of elemental metal dissemination in the original stone have been bimodally segregated, contributing to the differences in trajectory of individual fragments of the stone as a result of explosive aerial fragmentation? ___Total Iron Content__ Polujamki: 25.69 % http://www.crystalencounters.com.au/poluyamki.html Markovka: 25.48% http://www.minresco.com/meteor/meteor10.htm -Thaddeus __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] apology
Steve is capable of distinguishing the objective case of the pronoun"who" from its subjective function - this alone constitutes evidence that Steve isn't incapable of commanding acrolectic communication. Orthography is the possession of normative entities. Not all of us have the need to communicate in a fashion exempting us from reproach by merit of formality alone. Steve is a meteorite dealer, and although I have reservations about the possible loss of paleoenvironmental and archaeological information during the course of deep excavation of Brenham specimens, he is obviously successful at his hobby and livelihood - and I'm sure he thinks the same. This permits us to hold him to high ethical standards, but not to publicly ridicule quirks of his personality irrelevant to business. Offenses committed as a result of exchanges are not unassailable, though. The commodification of meteoritic material is a catalyst for any deceit or misdemeanor. Steve's grammar is fine if we understand what he is saying (I imagine). If I, as a qualified representative of a human in subjective grammatical usage, were dyslexic, my indignation of your belittling patronization, if expressed in language more asyntactic than you permit yourself to leak from your head, would still warrant censorship in most contexts by most censors. We all have our motives for possessing extraterrestrial materials. In the end, the reasons are perhaps tied to metaphysical concerns, even if our positivism denies what is common to our humanity: empirical certainty and faith are equivalent. Both approaches to the limits our experience arrive at security. To be close to the Ka'bah, after all, is to be in the company of the heavens - of the cosmos. -Thaddeus Bruce Yankewitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: steve arnold writes: << I really want to start gaining the respect of people of whom I know and would like to know on this list >> __ Steve: Assuming you are getting tired of making endless apologies to the list (and most listees are getting tired of reading them), how about giving this a try: Stop doing things you will have to apologize FOR. Plus (aside from the seemingly self-evident solutions of obeying list-rules and displaying higher ethical standards in buying, selling, and posting), there are a couple of very simple changes you could make in your posts. They couldn't hurt: There is no such word (in English anyway) as "forsale". Same for "alot". You might introduce yourself to the space bar on your keyboard (it's the long skinny one in the bottom row). Use between sentences and after commas. While you're figuring out how to correct "forsale", give "stoney" a shot, too. Ditto: Millibbilliee, Glorietta, viens, liesure, givaway, shrapnal, mororroco, rediculous, siderlit, nininnger, allie, mes, "to" vs. "too" vs. "two", et. al. A "fusion-crustless fragment"? Marks for originality. While familiarizing yourself with the space bar, spend a little quality-time with the key which says "Shift" on it. It Capitalizes things. Consider its use with "texas", "monnig", "chicago", "usa", most everyone's namesmaybe even "steve" and "arnold", too. Not everything you mention is particularly exciting A discernible attempt at eliminating the linguistic laziness in your posts would demonstrate that you have some respect for the listees who read them, a prerequisite for your receiving their respect in return. At the very least, try to set your grammatical goal as high as listees for whom English is a second, third, or fourth language. From a well-meaning friend, Bruce _ Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping Sales & Deals http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] steve arnold/Steve Arnold - There're two of you? I apologize.
List, I apologize for confusing the two Steves, but I mean what I write. Could the lack of capitalization be an attempt to show this distinction? Or, is "Chicago" enough? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] A problem with terminology
Phenocrysts are not inclusions, but may have inclusions. Clasts are inclusions if they were very minor components incorporated with or after formation of the whole rock, or "host" rock (e.g. a breccia is clastic, but it would make no sense to call all clasts within that rock inclusions). This is arbitrary to some degree, since percentages of total rock composition must be standardized for the sake of practical classification, although formation mechanisms are highlighted predictably by recognizing specific grades or proportions of components of rock. Fuzziness abounds ... . Xenoliths are not xenocrysts, but xenolithic rock may bear xenocrysts derived from xenolithic material also incorporated. Autoliths, xenoliths, and xenocrysts are clasts by definition, but their presence does not necessarily make a rock clastic/brecciated. Many individual crystals described in analyses of igneous meteoritic material, like basaltic eucrites and many shergottites as "clasts" are actually phenocrystic (or glomerocrystic). Phenocrysts are not clasts. Glomerocrysts are not clasts. Clasts in breccias are individual fragments of either the same rock or another rock within a matrix of melt, fused ash, fine-grained sediment interlocked with clasts and precipitated minerals, or chemical precipitates. A breccia may or may not be dominated by a single lithology, but always contains macroscopic chaotic or partially sorted arrangements of clasts. Detrital sedimentary rock may have homogeneous macroscopic grains, but are well-sorted, with spaces between clasts proportionate. When heterogeneous, some detrital sedimentary rocks are termed "microbreccias," such as greywackes and arkosic sandstones, but must show bimodal grain size and/or poor sorting of angular/sub-angular components (a result of local fragmentation), within a detrital matrix. Pyroclastic rocks are indistinct and bridge formation mechanism-defined classes; materials like ash-fall tuff grade into "true," or detrital/clastic sedimentary rock if deposited in wet environments (settling in/with unconsolidated detrital material) or reworked in terrestrial environments, but ignimbrites (welded tuffs) fuse upon formation, although they usually contain a substantial percentage of xenolithic/xenocrystic clasts, not to mention autoliths and phenocrysts. Autolithic materials in pyroclastic rock are also termed "clasts." Chondrites are petrogenetically similar to pyroclastic rock: accreted chondrules solidify (quench/crystallize) and accrete within microclastic accretionary matrix ... or did they? Forgive my quibbling, but I can imagine that unspecific use of the term "clast" contributes to misunderstanding. If I need correction, I will accept it. -Thaddeus __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] good faith trade
Mike, 1. An unusually warm winter in Siberia and European Russia is contributing to increases in CO2 due to melting of saturated, organic-rich permafrost and surfaces of ancient lakes. Animal migrations and hibernation have been affected, as have flowering plants and deciduous trees. http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:PKFaVsA80CwJ:www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/11/15/russia.bears.reut/index.html+siberia+weather+2006+winter&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1 2. Vladivostok is not frozen in October. http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/city_guides/results.shtml?tt=TT004640 3.Moscow has received little snow this season, and mean temperatures exceed freezing.http://www.russia-ic.com/news/show/3078/ http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:e6SieVZPh9cJ:rss.news.yahoo.com/imgrss/events/wl/012006russiacold+moscow+snow+2006&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10 4. A newscast reported that winter sports in SW Russia were impossible in natural contexts, so roller blades became substitutes. http://rtv.rtrlondon.co.uk/2006-12-14/33569c2e.html Siberian weather thus is no more inhospitable than Antarctic conditions - although I doubt new Sikhote-Alin specimens are surficial. Here is an uncleaned Sikhote-Alin: http://www.gc.maricopa.edu/earthsci/imagearchive/Sikhote%20Alin%20955.jpg This specimen does appear to have morphological characteristics of Sikhote-Alin, although oxidation on Steve's stone does seem to mimic the weathered surface of Campo. -Thaddeus Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Steve, why dont you check the frigging weather in SIKHOTE-ALIN. That is in a place called SIBERIA, which in the last two months, have been under many meters of snow no doubt, blizzards and negative temperatures. Hardly easy place to get to in the summertime, likely a tad more difficult in the deead of winter. _So something tells me that there have likely been no meteorite hunters at Sikhote-Alin during the last 3 or even 4 months. Mike Farmer --- ¤¤PolandMET¤¤ wrote: > >> Good morning list.It seems I have made in error > in a > >> trade I made.I am the one whose picture of the > >> sikote-alin,that was put out by Jim strope.I made > a > >> trade for that sikote-alin,that everyone is > saying is > >> a campo.I admit I have never seen a an sikote > like > >> this,but all the pitting looked like classic > sa.But in > >> a possible trade with mike Johnson,he mentioned > that > >> it looked like a campo,but I assured him it was > from > >> pieces that were recently found in the last 2 > >> months.This trade was made with IMCA member > >> #2321,TOMAZ JAKUBOWSKI.He said he bought it from > >> sergey from new comet shop 2 months ago.So it got > me > >> wondering after mike made me wonder about it.So I > >> emailed him back and he said,undeniably,it is > from a > >> new source of sa's found in the last 2 > months.Well I > >> decided to ask a guy whi is an EXPERT on sa's,jim > >> strope.He said there is no way that this is an > sa.So I > >> asked to send pics around to all on the list to > get > >> reaction as to what it is.It is gorgeous > piece.But if > >> it is a campo,and not a sikote,I WANT MY > HOWARDITE > >> BACK.This now becomes and IMCA issue.I did make > this > >> trade in good faith.Please help!! > >> > > Im confused ! > So You must have best shaped Campo ever seen or most > ugly Sikhote. I cand > imagine how its possible to mistake Campo with > Sikhite-Alin ??? > > -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- > http://www.Meteoryt.net > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 > [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society > ] > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] METEORITES FOR TRADE - all classified - FOR SURVEYING EQUIPMENT/ ARCHAEOLOGICAL BOOKS
List, I am interested in acquiring a sub-meter GPS unit of any brand, whether cumbersome (backpack, antenna) or handheld (preferably Ashtech, Trimble, or Thales), as well as books on California, Northwest, Great Basin, and Russian prehistoric archaeology. The specimens include many achondrites, including low TKW specimens. I am a student of geoarchaeology, and I conduct independent fieldwork in Southern California. I cannot afford to keep my collection, purchased from 2003 - 2005, if pursuing such activities. Although my current tools are effective, I must refrain from identifying objects and features in undisturbed contexts with consumer-grade GPS technology, even with <3m of horizontal error. Theodolites and accurate GPS units will permit x,y,z measurement without the problem of extending lines great distances in the wind - problematic if depths have differences <10cm. I have no income at the moment. I don't need GIS/CAD software or a computer (already covered). Back and current issues of journals such as Geoarchaeology and Journal of California and Great Basin Anthropology are accepted. Surveying equipment (theodolites, clinometers,a Brunton pocket transit) and soil sampling equipment, as well as a decent scale of >2kg capacity are acceptable. -Thaddeus Besedin My collection is not limited to specimens on this list (at least twice this quantity remain unlisted), and prices are available upon request: ACHONDRITES: Millbillillie eucrite .7 g crusted part slice Dhofar 300 metamorphosed eucrite breccia TKW: 624g 3.26 g part slice NWA 1646 cumulate eucrite S5 W1 TKW: 259g .834 g part slice, part slice .8 g NWA 1109 polymict eucrite 0.8 g part slice NWA 1282 Howardite TKW: 21g 0.618 g, .74g part slices Pena Blanca Aubrite .432 g part slice NWA 1110 picritic (olivine-phyric basaltic) shergottite 0.621g individual ORDINARY CHONDRITES: NWA 1930 LL3 S2 W2 3.98g slice NWA 1945 LL3 end cut 2.322g S1 W2 NWA 1283 (provisionally classified by Rubin at UCLA as an LL3) L3.7 1.5 g slice S1 TKW 44g absolutely stunning! Tag 019 LL3.7 part slice 3.5 g, 3 g part slice NWA 984 LL4 part slice 7.6 g S3 W2 NWA 3125 LL5 S2 W2 2.5g part slice, 2.854 g end cut NWA 1794 LL5 end cut S2 W1 2.7 g NWA 1701 LL5 IMB TKW 225 g 2.9 g part slice NWA 1584 LL5 end cut 2.6g W1 NWA 2499 LL6 breccia S4 W3 TKW 82g 2.17 end cut nice crust Bensour LL6 S4 W0 .6 g crusted fragment Dhofar 011 LL7 TKW 150g 1.69 g part slice NWA 2127 L4 complex regolith breccia part slice .262g S 2-4 W 1 TKW 45.2g Haxtun H/L4 part slice 2.8 Djoumine H5-6 S3 W0 1.2g fragment RUMURUTIITES: NWA 978 R 3.8 1.06g S3 W2 NWA 753 R 3.9 .95g part slice NWA 800 R4 W3 TKW 198g 1.6g end cut CARBONACEOUS CHONDRITES: NWA 1907 CK5 TKW 476g 1.98 g part slice DaG 082 CO3 3g end cut NWA 1465 CV3 anom. slice 1.33 g NWA 2502 CV3 anom. S2-3 W3 TKW 590g slice 1.52 g NWA 2180 CV3 TKW 369.3 g slice 2.6g NWA 801 CR2 beautiful 5.4 g slice, 1.4 g part slice, 1.5 g end cut (black xenolithic inclusion), 1.6g end cut, 0.7g individual IRON, STONY-IRON: Taza plessitic octahedrite 3.1 individual NWA 1879 mesosiderite C 3.628 g end cut, 2.854 g end cut __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What else do you collect?
I now collect data, filling my hard drive and dotting my GIS landscapes. Now, what separates a collector from a sampler? research and synthesis? the ascription of some sort of market value? I sample from sites I study, but I do not own anything that I have collected. If at all, a collection in some sense has somehow accumulated: musical recordings and instruments that I use - and only what I use. This is not necessarily a collection. If anything can be called something I actively collect, at least like I did as a kid and teen, I would include volcanic materials and other natural things picked up as I need for archaeological reference. I have some examples '20s - '50s Soviet stuff (decorations, flags, publications, as well as a research collection of books related to Socialism - theoretical, aesthetico-ideological, historical) and medieval European/Islamic coins, but my interest in further acquisitions died long ago. These things will be inherited by my descendants if not donated to universities or libraries. I haven't purchased a meteorite in over 16 mo. , but I will keep my Russian specimens, as well as single class representatives for comparative purposes. Compare collecting to any detrimental addictive pattern if respect for the importance of any single specimen/configuration and money are lacking - and space. I will be listing most of my collection ( > 85 specimens) as soon as I can. Prices will be good. -Thaddeus "Gary K. Foote" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Interesting you should say that. CJ and I hike and we collect shelf mushrooms - fungi. I used to collect stamps, but found it too $$$ intensive for a pre-teen boy. lol Now that I have a few bucks stamps are no longer on ,my radar screen. Photons I collect from dawn to dusk... :) G On 29 Nov 2006 at 20:19, Walter Branch wrote: > "I collect spores, molds and fungus" > > Q: Who said that? > > -Walter Branch > > Actually, I collect stamps and covers and photons of light when I get the > time. > > - Original Message - > From: "Gary K. Foote" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:11 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] What else do you collect? > > > > As a neophyte collector of meteorites I have amassed about $1K in > > specimens, all of which > > I cherish dearly. I am learning about preservation as some of my > > specimens are beginning > > to show signs of scaling, kamacite ooze and other such degradations. > > > > Interestingly enough, along the way I've also become interested in > > terrestrial rocks, > > fossils, impactites and the like. I was just wondering; > > > > What else does everyone collect? > > > > Gary > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dig Turns Up Little At MysteriousNewport Tower *except for a meteorite)
E.P. Grondine and list, I certainly agree. Researchers often relegate strata unrelated temporally to a target component to the waste-heap of total irrelevance, often due to a progressively (regressively) narrowed perspective and/or lack of time/funds (weather? what a joke! temporary structures such as canopies can be built. This all should have been anticipated in that part of the world). I believe no irreversible, destructive excavation work (as if there is any other) should be undertaken without a research design accounting for all site formation processes, and not at all if an artifact-fetish motivates attitudes. Charcoal and other organics (if recovered at all) was discarded frequently during excavation before the advent of C14 dating, and lithic debitage, a highly informative artifact class, was largely ignored until the '70s. Thermally-affected rocks are usually only counted, weighed, and discarded in contemporary excavations. Invasive field archaeology is only maximally informative as a highly systematic recordation of a site that values tedious redundancy - statistical redundancy - and is not biased by a "search" or "discovery" of a "people," "culture," or other construct bound to one of many competing theories or in verifying (as opposed to falsifying - in the Popperian sense) a selected hypothesis. Archaeology is not ethnography. Populations utilizing the Newport Tower may have buried objects to extreme depth, overlooked because of age (not to mention also that chemical pedology is specifically and uniquely contingent on the presence of metals or organic remains not otherwise associated with each other - affecting precipitation in a predictable manner). We must anticipate revolutions in analytical field methods, which is to anticipate better analytical technologies as well as a more holistic awareness of physical conditions commanding the collection of data-sets often ignored in "ordinary" contexts. Very large hydrologic-geomorphological data-sets will be necessary to the the future of geoarchaeological research of Acheulian European sites, for example; most sites like this have been redeposited by Pleistocene alluvial process, but will be interpreted with much greater certainty as technology permitting fast, accurate mass data acquisition and physical analysis becomes inexpensive. If my reading is correct, some work at Newport Tower sounds like bad CRM archaeology, necessarily controlled by and preocuppied with issues like 'significance,' with time, money, and impetus always too limited. Better attention to chemical precipitates, if iron residues can be morphologically detected physically as discrete anomalies, may reveal traces of iron artifacts (perhaps only oxidizing into ostensive oblivion). It's all too expensive. Too bad we can't re-excavate. ... and students ... . I know of a student who, during the excavation of a California Archaic (Millingstone Horizon - La Jolla [San Marcos]), troweled right through a rare hearth feature in their 1x1m unit, and simply did not record or otherwise mention it. A sense of shame and regret motivated this action (rather a lack of action) once it was recognized that ANY damage had been done. Data still could have been collected from some in situ portion of the hearth. "Error" or "inexperience" of a student led to the inadvertent and auspicious discovery of an important object irrelevant to historical reconstruction. Carelessness due to inexperience and a lack of accountability led to incomplete chronostratigraphic calibration somewhere else. -Thaddeus Besedin (a student of geoarchaeology - pardon the false pedantry) "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all - "They were not paying attention to that level" This gets my blood pressure up. While from what I read, the excavators were constrained by time and weather, given the uniqueness of the site, they should have been "paying attention". good hunting, Ed Man and Impact in the Americas --- Charlie Devine wrote: > Mark wrote: > > >Good work there, well done taking the > >time to go see the site...Do you know > >if they do any kinds of tests other then > >a visual like a streak test, magnet test, > >etc., etc.? > > Hello Mark, > > Well, I'm only 30 minutes from the site, so no big > deal getting there. > Besides, the Newport Tower has been called the "most > enigmatic structure > in North America", so visiting the first dig allowed > there in 60 years > was a must for me, since I've long been interested > in the mystery of > it's origin. Everyone involved wanted to see a > "Viking sword" emerge > from the ground, but that never happened. As for > the mystery sto
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this?
If this is associated with a burial, I would imagine that it may represent an oomorphic effigy - a ceremonial object. It is much too large to be used as a handstone. Does it have any concave surface features? Was it found polished? Perhaps you can send the photo to a local archaeologist. -Thaddeus Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: grind stone for black walnuts? - Original Message - From: "Jim Strope" To: "Meteorite Central" Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 8:57 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] What is this? > Anybody have any ideas? > > Obviously not a meteorite but here is the story. > > "I have a friend who has what he thinks is a metorite which was > disccovered > near an adena indian burial mound by a grave digger in 1894 and given to a > doctor for a medical bill. This possible metorite weighs about 75 lbs. and > is black in color like the one you have for same but it is more > symmetrical > and water melon shaped." > > Here is the photo: > > http://www.catchafallingstar.com/000.jpg > > > Jim Strope > 421 Fourth Street > Glen Dale, WV 26038 > > http://www.catchafallingstar.com > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Hunters and recoverererers
What may seem random to you may not be so. A random arrowhead is typically only seen as isolated because people picking them up do not know that there is in fact a cultural diversity represented in stone tools and fragments of prehistoric industry overlooked. These proximal objects have little, if any, market value. If one has knowledge that this "random" projectile point is surrounded by copious debris, this would certainly soil the practice, would it not? What constitutes your conception of an adequate distance between isolates, that itself determines the identity of an isolate? Things are buried, but they'll live to see another day without your pocket for protection. I can see that your world provides unlocked vaults, dropped wallets, and unclaimed inheritances. Is it not too much for one who can find time to pick up artifacts to have a GPS and a camera? Could
you observe microorganisms without a microscope? What does an arrowhead mean without awareness and record of its context and the contexts of arrowheads? Is your sense of self-regulation a law itself? What do you mean by "studied"? Don't you mean "mined"? Understand that you are an amateur for a reason. Just admit it: you are a profiteer with no consistent, internalized scruple. Sure, I have stones, but I don't need a 20 kilo main mass sitting prominently on a shelf. I stopped buying over a year ago when I realized that I not only had enough material for years of personal research, but that my interest was detrimental to certain other areas of research, as well as peripheral sciences that are affected because many suppliers espouse your "treasure hunting" ethos and have expanded their horizons. You have to put your
foot down at some point. I should support the "cause" by collecting from your collection. It will just rot sitting there anyway. -thaddeus Besedin Dave Freeman mjwy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.What have YOU done to preserve science? And, what do you have in your collection that you shouldn't have (meaning anything that wasn't correctly scientifically removed)? Exactly what are your credentials to be knowledgeable to whine..?It is very easy for those stoic office types to complain about those in the field doing the real WORK. Our western lands are not studied because the amateur is shut out by the scientific lobby in congress so the stuff just sits and gets eroded away by nature. In the CFR, under "artifacts" there is no
penalty for collecting random arrowheads on the surface of the ground. So, don't forget that. Don't forget that private land still is private, and what may be collected there is not controlled by blue footed boobies. Poo poo to all those that have an opinion but do nothing to support the cause. I am actually still surprised that anyone can own meteorites or artifacts of any kind with the few bone-heads-for-science that roam our country. There is nothing wrong with good science but letting things erode to nothing in the name of preservation is quite self serving for nothing.I will get of my soap box now. Mr. Dave and Mr. Jimgot me!DAve F.Thaddeus Besedin wrote:They should be recovered, but we should be aware of how our excavation impacts other deposits. I'll let this rest, guys. You
know my position by now. The same argument ("it will rot if I do nothing") is advanced by "relic" hunters who search rivers, but there is a major difference between surface hunting and excavation, and especially in the contexts of drainages and areas subject to mass wasting. to protect their "troves," looters typically do not disclose the provenances of their finds when offered for sale, if at all they have been conscientious enough to record a GPS position. Such negligence is irresponsible, and proves that the motive for these activities is itself personal gain. Seriously, the prices that these meteorites yield would be better deserved if all sciences involved with the thin, fragile surface of the earth are considered. This would be the attitude of a professional in any other invasive field. -Thaddeus New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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[meteorite-list] Treasure Hunters swinging their metal detectors in the face of viewers (voyeurs?)
You are a good boy, with your trans-generational repetition of momma's childhood reassurances: "I know you're just jealous ." ... and one day, your children. Since I am a stupid bonehead, I seem to have misplaced my insults, if fact I am capable of conceiving of disparaging language (efficaciously, that is). Sarcasm should be sarcastic, not quite distinctly a petty sardonic mocking. You're too funny. Can't I be counter-ironic? Or were you donning meta-irony? Perhaps you'll never know. Then you can be called an unconscious hypocrite. -Thaddeus BESEDIN Notkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thaddeus wrote:> EBay: you said it all. You'd sell human remains to the highest bidder if it were legal.I was being sarcastic you stupid bonehead.You come off as a big sanctimonious idiot, blathering on about cultural heritage and the rest of it. What a load of nonsense! That's why I was having a lark with eBay references and so on -- making fun of your ridiculous posts.We're out there doing real meteorite work, not sitting on our wide backsides criticising others' actions from behind the keyboard. If the Travel Channel is interested enough in our work to do a documentary about it, so much the better.And I thought Sterling Webb was full of himself! Your incredibly tedious waffling almost makes him interesting. Honestly, nobody gives a shit about your blowhard opinions. Please go dig a deep hole and rub your face in the valuable "taxa" at the bottom of it.Thanks for the laughs.Geoff Notkin Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Treasure
I'm referring to the pits that you are digging, not indices of impact force that scar the earth, such as craters. I am not calling meteorites relics - it is the presentation of meteorite hunting by this particular program as tantamount to treasure (cultural "relic" ) hunting with impunity. This relic hunting is being promoted by your show. The impact is great: it costs us all our cultural heritage. Meteorite hunting is not the problem. How many times must I repeat this? It is the attitude that is the problem. You do realize that no matter when the fall happened, Brenham meteorites were either observed by humans, a threat to life in the strewn field (with obvious ecological implications), or buried beneath sediments possibly containing traces of events too small for your slobbering regard. EBay: you said it all. You'd sell human remains to the highest bidder if it were legal. Notkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear Listees:Greetings comrades.Just returned late last night from our Brenham/Glorieta documentary shoot: sunburned, bruised, scratched, and battered, but what a great experience. Our Travel Channel host, the glamorous Becky Worley, jumped right into the action and was digging holes, riding ATVs, swinging metal detectors, and generally working her way through an intense meteorite-hunting apprenticeship in 48 hours flat. She's a knockout.Thanks to Mark and Ruben for posting their photos of our expedition. I'll post my own as soon as I can. Mark Bostick and his bro came all the way down from Wichita for the dig on Thursday. It was good to see some friendly faces and I appreciate the nice web presentation he put together.In other news: this Besednice character is a real corker isn't he? He's gotta be just a fake ID, or a troll right? With a name like that I'm putting my money on Jim Strope or Dave Andrews having some fun with us.Thaddeus Besednice posted:> Oh great - another glorification of looting (relic hunting)!A relic is generally assumed to be a product of, or an item specifically associated with, human culture and history (i.e. an ancient religious relic), so it doesn't really work with a meteorite. Also, how can you be looting something when its owner (the landowner) has expressly asked you to excavate it from his own property? Answer me that, Mr. Moldavite.> Do Any of the Brenham pits get at least a cursory record of their > possible prehistoric components?They're not pits, silly. The Brenhams are completely buried, way, way underground, a bit like your conscience. An "impact pit" is a modest surface indentation made by a meteorite which is too small (or traveling too slowly) to produce an actual crater. I suggest reading Mr. Norton's "Rocks from Space" where you can learn some other helpful meteorite terms, and then use them at parties.FYI, Steve meticulously records the depth, orientation, GPS coordinates, and other detailed info for every single find. A scientific study (in association with a prominent geologist on the List) is underway to determine the true age of the fall. I can't wait! IMO the Brenham fall took place more recently than many of us think.In addition, valuable and detailed strewnfield data is being collected with each new find. The area around each excavated Brenham is carefully checked for meteorite fragments, as well as the flattened, fossilized carcass of an ancient Kansas plains camel, big sabre tooth kitty, or -- if we're super lucky -- Thaddeus Besednice himself. Steve is REALLY hoping that directly beneath one of the big irons he will discover a wafer-thin buffalo mummy. Imagine how much that would go for on eBay!> I'm justifiably and unassailably an enemy of the irresponsible, > counterscientific, hobbyist attitudes glorified by certain people and > uncritically tolerated by others (accomplices).Good lord that's fabulous. A sentence worthy of Thomas Pynchon! Yes, that would be me, one of the accomplices. I know you're just jealous you big Moldavite.> No, we don't need degrees to collect lumps of asteroids, planets, and > comets, but a bit of respect for irreplacable biological taxa and > cultural residues would make us more than drooling, avaricious > freebooters.Unfortunately, most of the eminent scientists with degrees are too busy with classifications, new papers, and important lab work to go scurrying around in the mud with us, but we're happy to do our part. I do agree with you though -- think of all the "irreplacable biological taxa" that resides at the bottom of a hole in a field in a Kansas farm! If you want to come out and study it, I'll be happy to hand you a shovel.Anyway, just to contradict you one more time, Steve has had recognized academics up to Brenham to inspect the work-in-progress, notably the excellent Dr. Art Ehlmann of the Oscar Monnig Gallery, TCU.I know this guy Besednice is just a gag by someone, but replied for the sake of some List members who might think this clown is a real person.Good joke though : )Yours in freebooting astero
[meteorite-list] NWA 1110 and paired specimens: what is the consensus?
Hello list (and I apologize for my offenses [ha ha]), Have we all come to terms with the status of so-called NWA 1110 fragments sold on EBAy and other through direct sale 1.5 years ago? Have any been analyzed? Are they genuine? -Thaddeus Besedin (my real name, and my sh*t stinks too) Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Treasure Hunters: what big main masses you have
I work on threatened prehistoric complexes in California. Should I have to wave my phallus in the air for you? You still don't get the point. Mistakes I or anyone have made in the past should not condemn one to the same trajectory. Are you saying an institution cannot rectify an inertia treacherously corrupt? How childish to deny our detrimental shortcuts. Credentials? Should a degree of pedagogy (the degrees of pedagogy) dictate our integrity? No, instead, let the glory of cable television give us brimmed hats, rugged stubble, and the bodies of amorous feminine opportunists: the romance of any free-for-all and the pleasure that a carte blanche has to coffer. You wouldn't give a sh*t if it was just a radiolarian-rich sediment or a fragment of debitage. Dave Freeman mjwy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.What have YOU done to preserve science? And, what do you have in your collection that you shouldn't have (meaning anything that wasn't correctly scientifically removed)? Exactly what are your credentials to be knowledgeable to whine..?It is very easy for those stoic office types to complain about those in the field doing the real WORK. Our western lands are not studied because the amateur is shut out by the scientific lobby in congress so the stuff just sits and gets eroded away by nature. In the CFR, under "artifacts" there is no penalty for collecting random arrowheads on the surface of the ground. So, don't forget that. Don't forget that private land still is private, and what may be collected there is not controlled by blue footed boobies. Poo poo to all those that have an opinion
but do nothing to support the cause. I am actually still surprised that anyone can own meteorites or artifacts of any kind with the few bone-heads-for-science that roam our country. There is nothing wrong with good science but letting things erode to nothing in the name of preservation is quite self serving for nothing.I will get of my soap box now. Mr. Dave and Mr. Jimgot me!DAve F.Thaddeus Besedin wrote:They should be recovered, but we should be aware of how our excavation impacts other deposits. I'll let this rest, guys. You know my position by now. The same argument ("it will rot if I do nothing") is advanced by "relic" hunters who search rivers, but there is a major difference between surface hunting and excavation, and especially in the contexts of drainages and areas subject to mass
wasting. to protect their "troves," looters typically do not disclose the provenances of their finds when offered for sale, if at all they have been conscientious enough to record a GPS position. Such negligence is irresponsible, and proves that the motive for these activities is itself personal gain. Seriously, the prices that these meteorites yield would be better deserved if all sciences involved with the thin, fragile surface of the earth are considered. This would be the attitude of a professional in any other invasive field. -Thaddeus New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Treasure Hunters
They should be recovered, but we should be aware of how our excavation impacts other deposits. I'll let this rest, guys. You know my position by now. The same argument ("it will rot if I do nothing") is advanced by "relic" hunters who search rivers, but there is a major difference between surface hunting and excavation, and especially in the contexts of drainages and areas subject to mass wasting. to protect their "troves," looters typically do not disclose the provenances of their finds when offered for sale, if at all they have been conscientious enough to record a GPS position. Such negligence is irresponsible, and proves that the motive for these activities is itself personal gain. Seriously, the prices that these meteorites yield would be better deserved if all sciences involved with the thin, fragile surface of the earth are considered. This would be the attitude of a professional in any other invasive field.
-Thaddeus
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Re: [meteorite-list] Treasure Hunters
Mr. Arnold, I don't mean to sanctimoniously act as everybody's conscience - I have also contributed money to the trade in meteorites by accumulating a collection of small specimens after all, which does to some extent make me a hypocrite. It wasn't your activities and tactics that I was condemning (or at least remonstrating); I condemn the use of the designation "relic hunter," which, at least implicitly, equates the morality of meteorite hunting with the theft of "relics" as a career choice. Do you see how one could be held in the same light as a grave robber, consequently, or conversely, how a grave robber can gain the esteem that you, as a meteorite hunter, have and deserve, especially since you follow the rules and desire to benefit the scientific community? Yes, affected life should pull through - archaeologists also use backhoes to remove overburden and this practice undoubtedly has casualties, not to mention the habitat disturbances of large excavations. My point is that if the public/audience will not see that digging for "arrowheads" is not any different than meteorite prospecting, then people will simply diversify their prospecting, choosing instead to mine the earth of so much "treasure." High context resolution is much less important with meteorites, since their scientific value is primarily contained within them, outside of depth and horizontal distribution, which can be measured with tape and GPS, of course. this is not the case with artifact assemblages, which must be viewed like constellations: an event, a picture may be apparent. Otherwise, we have only a point in the past that has no contemporaries, precursors, and successors. So, I am happy that you are providing samples of soils and other materials to scientists, and I hope that any "soiled loincloths" will find a good C14 laundry basket. Where you are looking is within the regional distribution of Plains Paleoindian (Cody Complex, Goshen, Folsom, etc.) cultural residues (artifacts, faunal remains), although I have no idea if you are in proximity to significant concentrations of these materials, although you do have an excellent chance to find out. These deposits can be several meters deep, after all. So while I accept your work as legitimate, I frown on presentations by the Travel Chanel, which inadvertently promote the casual, undocumented souvenir collecting that has depleted surface deposits of ancient sites popular with tourists. A controlled collecting is what scientists that deal with materials do, after all - it is a necessary step toward analysis and hypothesis falsification. I just wish that more people could understand that the value of archaeological materials is in their contribution to collective knowledge and not in liquidity. -Thaddeus Besedin[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List and whomever you are that wrote this last email without signing it,I am glad you seem to be as concerned as we are about accumulating as much scientific data as possible on our excavations. It is our hope to find a buffalo skull under one of our Brenhams, or a field mouse, or at least some grass carried to the bottom of the impact pit. The odds of finding a soiled loincloth are pretty slim, but we are looking anyway. So for the last 6 or so digs at Brenham, I have had the Backhoe dig off to the side and deeper than where the meteorite target is, then slowly he moves over to where the specimen is at in situ. Then when we reach it, we dig out above it so that we can get beside it and lift it up preserving the soil beneath it with the imprint of the rock just removed. We are then able to get samples of the soil for age dating and possibly other research that guys in white lab coats might be interested in.I am not sure if the Travel Channel will explain why we were digging the way we were. That part might actually get included in the final production, or it might get cut to the editing room floor. But even if they don't show it, or explain it, the samples are being taken.By the way, what is your name? I'm justifiably and unassailably an enemy of the irresponsible, counterscientific, hobbyist lack of email signatures glorified by certain people and uncritically tolerated by others (accomplices).Ex Astra,Steve Arnoldwww.BrenhamMeteoriteCompany.com In a message dated 4/25/2006 7:37:32 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Oh great - another glorification of looting (relic hunting)! Do Any of the Brenham pits get at least a cursory record of their possible prehistoric components? I'm justifiably and unassailably an enemy of the irresponsible, counterscientific, hobbyist attitudes glorified by certain people and uncritically tolerated by others (accomplices). No, we don't need degrees to collect lumps of asteroids, planets, and comets, but a bit of respect for irreplacable biological taxa and cultural residues would make us more than dr
Re: [meteorite-list] Treasure Hunters
Oh great - another glorification of looting (relic hunting)! Do Any of the Brenham pits get at least a cursory record of their possible prehistoric components? I'm justifiably and unassailably an enemy of the irresponsible, counterscientific, hobbyist attitudes glorified by certain people and uncritically tolerated by others (accomplices). No, we don't need degrees to collect lumps of asteroids, planets, and comets, but a bit of respect for irreplacable biological taxa and cultural residues would make us more than drooling, avaricious freebooters. Ruben Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all,We had a great time filming an episode of "Cash andTreasure". A new series on the Travel Channel thatwill air in early 2007. Each show will be an hour longand will feature various types of treasure hunting.>From gold prospecting to relic hunting to meteorites,it should be great.Our half of the one hour show will feature GeoffNotkin, Mike Miller, Sonney Clary, Keith Jenkerson andMyself. It will detail a recent Glorieta Mountainhunting trip where we found on and off camera 12Glorieta "Gems" by 3:30 p.m. and 16 total for the day!The second half of the show will spotlight SteveArnold along with Geoff Notkin finding meteorites inthe Brenham strewn field that most of us only dreamof.This show is unique in that they insisted that nothingbe staged or set-up. Everything was real! There was noplanting meteorites, we were asked to just go and seewhat we could do. I think most of us were pleased tocome up with what we did. The specimens were small averaging only about 10 or 12grams each. But as anyone who has ever hunted Glorietaknows, one could walk for days and never get close tothese extra-terrestrial gems.Check out some of the pictures:Geoff, Mike, Sonny, Keith, Me before the camerasrolledhttp://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/meteoritemall/detail?.dir=e579re2&.dnm=e3f1re2.jpg&.src="">Keep Out! http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/meteoritemall/detail?.dir=e579re2&.dnm=b500re2.jpg&.src="">Me and Becky(host of the show) finding the firstglorieta meteorite on camera!http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/meteoritemall/detail?.dir=e579re2&.dnm=91d2re2.jpg&.src="">http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/meteoritemall/detail?.dir=e579re2&.dnm=2787re2.jpg&.src="">Mike, Sonny, Ruben, Geoff and Luke the "camera man" http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/meteoritemall/detail?.dir=5c0bre2&.dnm=8f57re2.jpg&.src="">Me and Geoffhttp://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/meteoritemall/detail?.dir=5c0bre2&.dnm=8267re2.jpg&.src="">Our finds by 3:30 pmhttp://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/meteoritemall/detail?.dir=e579re2&.dnm=3c1bre2.jpg&.src="">Ruben Garcia__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __Meteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mysterious Booms Rattle San Diego
Booms are a common occurrence in Oceanside, and I am more likely to hear such sonic phenomena - I live directly South of Camp Pendleton (approx. 0.6 km to the SE). training mortar, cannon, artillery, and bombing occur almost daily. These ranges are several kilometers from the closest civilian habitation, so one perceives a distant low frequency complex percussive succession - as one would expect. We've had heavy storms in the area hit us, so i would be skeptical as to the probability of material entry. Who knows what kind of weapons are actually tested or otherwise detonated? Just look at the spectacular Vandenburg missile tests - the potential for weapon/aircraft tests is quite usual. Ron Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: http://www.kfmb.com/stories/story.45308.htmlMysterious Booms Rattle San DiegoKFMB News 8 (San Diego, California)April 4, 2006San Diegans are wondering what's behind a series of mysterious boomsheard across the county Tuesday morning.The booms were heard at around 8:45 a.m. and rattled residents, causinga flood of calls to sheriff's dispatchers.No measurable seismic activity was recorded in San Diego County Tuesdaymorning, according to the U.S. Geological Survey. Local militaryofficials had no reports of a sonic boom happening today.Marines at Camp Pendleton conducted mortar training Tuesday morning, butofficials say they were unaware if the noise was a result.There were no reports of injuries or damages.http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/8464357/detail.htmlMystery Boom Rattles Windows, NervesNBCSandiego.comApril 4, 2006SAN DIEGO -- A loud noise rattled residents -- and windows -- areasaround Marine Corps Air Station Miramar a little before 9 a.m. on Tuesday.Several people reported to NBC 7/39 and NBCSandiego.com that the loudnoise shook the windows of their homes.Some people thought the boom was an earthquake, but the United StatesGeological Survey had no record of an earthquake occurring in San DiegoCounty at that time."I was like, 'Uh-oh, here comes a big earthquake,' " said one woman."But it didn't last too long -- just about 30 seconds."A man in the area when the boom took place told NBC 7/39 that he thoughtthe source of the noise was something quite different."I thought a plane came down, because it came from the west, and theairport's out there," he said. "Usually when we get a sonic boom, itcomes from the east of Miramar."Military officials, however, said there were no reports of a sonic boomin the county.People in such areas as Torrey Pines, Kearny Mesa and El Cajon reportedhearing the noise.__Meteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Taking Offers on This Piece...
And what of the world's thief? It doesn't matter - I have no authority. I just wonder how we can continuously and successfully recover material from certain regions without ending up in jail? Does this ever happen? This same market is often coextensive with the artifact looting that is rampant in South America and and Africa North of the Sahara. Many dealers are selling looted artifacts found near strewn field (or vice-versa - meteorites at open air Mousterian, Acheulian, Aterian, and Epipaleolithic sites). I'm myself guilty of buying artifacts from meteorite dealers, but I recognize that the artifact market only intersects at few instances with the meteorite trade. Mark Rexburg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Tell me who made you the world's cop.>From: Thaddeus Besedin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>To: michael cottingham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Taking Offers on This Piece...>Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 21:37:21 -0700 (PDT)>>How can it possibly be legal to loot strewnfields in developing countries? >There are>>michael cottingham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>>>From: michael cottingham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 11:34 PM>To: 'michael cottingham'>Subject: AD: Taking Offers on This Piece...>>Hello,>>I am offering this World Class Slice up for offers. Here's a chance for>someone to get a good deal!>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6614919557>>>Please leave your offers through this Auction.>>Thanks & Best Wishes>>Michael Cottingham>>>__>Meteorite-list mailing list>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list>>>>->New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, >low rates.>__>Meteorite-list mailing list>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list_Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Taking Offers on This Piece...
How can it possibly be legal to loot strewnfields in developing countries? There are michael cottingham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: michael cottingham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 11:34 PMTo: 'michael cottingham'Subject: AD: Taking Offers on This Piece...Hello,I am offering this World Class Slice up for offers. Here's a chance forsomeone to get a good deal!http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6614919557Please leave your offers through this Auction.Thanks & Best WishesMichael Cottingham__Meteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Aubrite?
Hmmm. Can it be possible that this is a sandstone with magnetite veins? If so, perhaps we have an arkosic hornfels with metasomatic precipitate hematite in fractures. It could be an EH chondrite, but I would have it checked out. it is no "sandstone" alone. Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: WOW, it must give a warm fuzzy feeling for all who bought the "Mars Rock"that the same Moroccans also classified on their microprobe.Michael Farmer-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MattMorganSent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 9:51 AMTo: M come Meteorite MeteoritesCc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Aubrite?I too have this, and it is a sandstone.M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:>Hello>>>A moroccan dealer have sent to me this pieces and say>its a aubrite paired to NWA 2736. For me no, why:>>1) its magnetic, aubrites I have in collection is not>magnetic>>2) Brown matrix with oxidized metal veins>>3) its many many similar to my NWA 1067 enstatite E6>>Here 2 photos of a cut piece>>http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1237/nwa10wz.jpg>>http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1020/nwa27sy.jpg>>for you what is it?>>matteoM come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato>Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY>Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it >Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info>MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com>EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/>>> >> > >___ >Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB >http://mail.yahoo.it>__>Meteorite-list mailing list>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list>>> >-- <><><><><>Matt MorganMile High Meteoriteshttp://www.mhmeteorites.comhttp://www.mrmeteorite.comP.O. Box 151293Lakewood, CO 80215 USAeBay user id: mhmeteorites__Meteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list__Meteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UNUSUAL COOL METEORITE PHOTOS
A large BO chondrule (you can see its parallel crystals in photo 5 at 7:00) and its POP (I think) chondrules seem to be relatively intact, resisting homogenizing metamorphic processes, which have recrystallized much of its matrix. The metal is highly heterogeneous, so I would imagine that the groundmass itself was similar in metallic proportion to the majority of LL chondrites (i.e. leucocratic silicate matrix with sparse oxidized regions). Thus, the total metal content is rather moderate. My guess is L5, not L6.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dean;That is a very interesting specimen,I won't guess the classification myself,but will congratulate you on the find and thank you for posting the pictures for our enjoyment.Best;Herman.__Meteorite-lis t mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Professor Rejects Meteor Theory of Carolina Bays' Origin
Is it known if any metals associated with and transported by meteorites have been detected in any substantive concentrations in cores or other samples? Ron Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: http://www.thetandd.com/articles/2006/03/28/news/doc4428a99f752a6396001544.txtMysterious wetlandsCitadel professor rejects meteor theory of Carolina bays' originBy S.W. SHOPTAWThe Times and DemocratMarch 28, 2006Were they formed by the impact of a meteor striking the Earth or arethey merely sink holes? The answer to how Carolina bays were formed isnot something about which scientists agree.Carolina bays are geological depressions of mysterious origin that occurthroughout the Coastal Plain of the Carolinas and Georgia. They taketheir name from the evergreen bay trees that typically characterize them.On March 19, Dr. Richard Porcher, a professor of biology and director ofthe herbarium at The Citadel, gave a presentation on Carolina bays tothe Friends of Santee National Wildlife Refuge. [... .] New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] partial collection sale - help me stay in school, which requires time I may have to spend working longer, and buy textbooks!
Hello. My state government aid has been cut dramatically due to the repercussions of implemenatation of responses to general budgetary concerns, such as subsequently revised economic qualification standards in California. Plus, I have possibly exceeded the maximum number of units that my school permits one to have to qualify for federal aid, and I have yet to receive any check. This will take some time to sort out., although I recognize that this is my problem. Due to these conditions and my extrapolated poverty, I must sell a large portion of my modest collection. I collected for reference purposes, choosing fascinating petrographies over rarity or value. Amphoterites were a special concern of mine, as well as extrusions and examples of metamorphic grades and carbonaceous chondrite metasomatism. Buy all (please - I just want to break even), and we'll discuss a significant discount. Plus, I'll trade for a good lapt op, certain books and analytic instruments. I will entertain and consider individual offers on more expensive specimens. All specimens have been handled with chlorine-free gloves and have been stored in perforated polyethylene bags in inert storage containers with loose lids - all sealed in one large bag with a well-maintained container of silica gel. There is no advancing oxidation, and my climate is dry (So. California). Plus, I may get to the OC and iron specimens that I have (at least 60 more specimens). These were all purchased originally from reputable dealers (e.g. Hupes, Mike Farmer, Michael Cottingham et al.). Thank you for the inbox space. -Thaddeus Besedin Millbillillie eucrite .7 g crusted part slice $12 Dhofar 300 metamorphosed eucrite breccia - colorful 3.26 g part slice $125 NWA 1646 eucrite S5 W1 TKW: 259g .834 g part slice $20, part slice .8 g $19 I have heard that there is a possibility that this stone originated on or near Mercury. Can someone clarify this? Anorthite clasts give this a lunar appearance. NWA 1109 polymict eucrite 0.8 g part slice $8 possibly a howardite, since some samples have been determinied to contain >10% diogenitic orthopyroxene inclusions NWA 1282 Howardite TKW: 21g! 0.618 g $27, .74g $31 part sliceshttp://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=32155 Pena Blanca Aubrite .432 g part slice $14 ORDINARY CHONDRITES: NWA 1930 LL3 S2 W2 3.98g thin slice $14NWA 1945 LL3 end cut 2.322g S1 W2 $10NWA 1283 (provisionally classified by Rubin at UCLA as an LL3), L3.7 or LL3 (according t o the metoritical society)1.5 gslice S1 TKW 44g $35 absolutely stunning multi-colored radial pyroxene chondrules!http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=32156 Tag 019 LL3.7 part slice 3.5 g $13 NWA 984 LL4 part slice 7.6 g S3 W2 $26 TKW reported at 89g http://internt.nhm.ac.uk/jdsml/research-curation/projects/metcat/detail.dsml?Key=N1615.984 NWA 3125 LL5 S2 W2 TKW: 577g 2.5g part slice $7.50, 2.854 g end cut $8.25NWA 1794 LL5 end cut TKW: 398g S2 W1 2.7 g $6 http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=17477 NWA 1809 LL6 TKW: 214g S2 W2 tri-color breccia, unique and symetrically and compositionally well-zoned (red/grey/blue) - almost laminated 5.3 g thin part slice with crust $26 NWA 1701 LL5 IMB TKW 225 g 2.9 g part slice $100 This was cut from the fine-grained, heavily shock-metamorphosed section.file http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2006/pdf/1454.pdf NWA 1584 LL5 end cut 2.6g S2 W1 $10 NWA 2499 LL6 colorful breccia S4 W3 TKW 82g 2.17 end cut nice crust $12 Bensour LL6 S4 W0 .6 g 50% crusted fragment $5 Dhofar 011 LL7 S3 W3 TKW 150g 1.69 g part slice $65 NWA 2127 L4 complex regolith breccia part slice .262g S 2-4 W 1 TKW 45.2g $30Haxtun H/L4 part slice 2.8 $7 Djoumine H5-6 S3 W0 1.2g fragment $10RUMURUTIITES: NWA 978 R 3.8 1.06g S3 W2 $12 NWA 753 R 3.9 .95g part slice $10 NWA 800 R4 W3 1.6g end cut $12CARBONACEOUS CHONDRITES:NWA 1907 CK5 TKW 476g 1.98 g part slice $55 Allende 2.11 individual, fresh (old recovery) - excellent scale-like crust contraction fissures (65% total), oviform; other than impact scar - complete $12DaG 082 CO3 3g end cut $15NWA 1465 CV3 anom. slice, less weathering than usual 1.33 g $19NWA 2502 CV3 anom. S2-3 W3 TKW 590g slice 1.52 g $22NWA 2180 CV3 TKW 369.3 g slice 2.6g $22NWA 801 CR2: beautiful 5.4 g slice - all metal rust-free and intact! a thin presentation slice with evenly spaced, complete and well-preserved proportional chondrules. many are completely surrounded by Fe-Ni $115, 1.4 g part slice $27 1.5 g end cut (large black xenolithic inclusion) $30 1.6g end cut $30 0.7g complete individual $14Taza plessitic octahedrite 3.1g individual $20 Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
