Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
Greetings all: A 10 meter astroid would be similar in size to the original size of the Ash Creek meteorite, or about the size but not mass of the International Space Station. Its most valuable use would be as a projectile to to deflect an 100 meter or larger NEO. If capture failed and it hit the earth it would most likely cause no more damage than the headlines preaching doom! Being able to capture it and use it to deflect a larger NEO would be our best defence against a larger extinction event astroid. Cheers Steve Dunklee --- On Mon, 8/29/11, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit To: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, August 29, 2011, 11:01 PM Hi, Bernd, List, A mere 10-meter spherical asteroid? (To a physicist, everything is spherical at the first approximation...) That's 523.6 cu. meters. At a rock density of 2 to 3 metric tons per cu. meter, that's somewhere between 1047.2 and 1570.8 metric tons. As a disaster, it's on a par with dropping a grand piano on a cartoon coyote. It would be a slow approach and MIGHT drop 10 kilos of meteorites, but probably not unless it grazed the atmosphere at the correct angle. However, a 10-meter asteroid is a tiny playground. What if it were a 100-meter asteroid, ten times bigger, and lots of surface (and about 1,000,000 tons). If you accidentally dropped that object on the Earth, you'd have a 250-meter crater and 0.2 MegaTon blast. Too big to play with. A 33-meter asteroid? Airbursts at 14 kilometers and splatters a lot of fast fragments, but no craters. From this I conclude that the 10-meter asteroid grab is a Modest Proposal. Unless, of course, it's an iron... Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong? What if the nudge is a little bit too strong? What if the Moon interferes? What if this NEO is thus sent hurtling toward planet Earth? - utter devestation - millions of people killed - wildfires - tsunamis - earthquakes - tons and tons of material ejected into the atmosphere - etc., etc. Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
Steve wrote: A 10 meter astroid would be similar ... our best defence against a larger extinction event astroid. Steve, before taking the controls of Asteroid videogames, you need to dig up an old Spirograph toy. They are really fun. There you can learn all you want about deflecting *astroids* with Spirograph and make all kinds of orbits and deflect them more or less with a pen. For real, you can draw the most awesome astroids with a spirograph set. Or if you are technical, and too old for toys, this ought to clear it up: http://online.redwoods.cc.ca.us/instruct/dhicketh/math50c/projectfall99/specialplanecurve/astroid.htm Over a few years on the list you've always written *astroid*. Your calculations for unablated, unfragemented meteoroid sizes more if you decide to fix that. Yeah, its just a typo, and some people in this world can't even spell their own name. Just a shameless plug for Spirograph: http://www.ebay.com/itm/150653856668 Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Steve Dunklee steve.dunk...@yahoo.com To: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2011 2:54 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Greetings all: A 10 meter astroid would be similar in size to the original size of the Ash Creek meteorite, or about the size but not mass of the International Space Station. Its most valuable use would be as a projectile to to deflect an 100 meter or larger NEO. If capture failed and it hit the earth it would most likely cause no more damage than the headlines preaching doom! Being able to capture it and use it to deflect a larger NEO would be our best defence against a larger extinction event astroid. Cheers Steve Dunklee --- On Mon, 8/29/11, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit To: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, August 29, 2011, 11:01 PM Hi, Bernd, List, A mere 10-meter spherical asteroid? (To a physicist, everything is spherical at the first approximation...) That's 523.6 cu. meters. At a rock density of 2 to 3 metric tons per cu. meter, that's somewhere between 1047.2 and 1570.8 metric tons. As a disaster, it's on a par with dropping a grand piano on a cartoon coyote. It would be a slow approach and MIGHT drop 10 kilos of meteorites, but probably not unless it grazed the atmosphere at the correct angle. However, a 10-meter asteroid is a tiny playground. What if it were a 100-meter asteroid, ten times bigger, and lots of surface (and about 1,000,000 tons). If you accidentally dropped that object on the Earth, you'd have a 250-meter crater and 0.2 MegaTon blast. Too big to play with. A 33-meter asteroid? Airbursts at 14 kilometers and splatters a lot of fast fragments, but no craters. From this I conclude that the 10-meter asteroid grab is a Modest Proposal. Unless, of course, it's an iron... Sterling K. Webb - --- - Original Message - From: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong? What if the nudge is a little bit too strong? What if the Moon interferes? What if this NEO is thus sent hurtling toward planet Earth? - utter devestation - millions of people killed - wildfires - tsunamis - earthquakes - tons and tons of material ejected into the atmosphere - etc., etc. Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/27112/ A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Chinese scientists have discovered a near Earth asteroid that, with a slight push, could enter Earth orbit Technology Review (MIT) August 29, 2011 Most of the discussion about near Earth asteroids focuses on whether they represent a threat to Earth and what to do take if they turn out to be heading our way. But today, Hexi Baoyin and pals at Tsinghua University in Beijing offer a different take. The question they ask is how to place an asteroid in orbit around the Earth. Their conclusion is a little surprising. They say it's relatively straightforward to nudge a small asteroid in our direction. They've even discovered a number of candidates nearby that we might want to bring as little closer. Their inspiration is a phenomenon that astronomers have noticed with Jupiter. Every now and again, the gas giant captures a nearby object, which hangs around for a few years and then wanders off into space. A good example is the comet Oterma which went into orbit about Jupiter in1936 before heading off into the Solar System two years later. Could a similar thing happen to Earth, ask Baoyin and co. Having studied the orbits of the 6000 known near Earth objects (NEO), they say the short answer is no. None of them will come close enough for Earth to capture. However, a few of these objects will come maddeningly close. So near, in fact, that a small nudge would send them into Earth orbit. When such an NEO approaches Earth, it is possible to change its orbit energy...to make the NEO become a small satellite of the Earth, they say. A particularly good candidate is a 10-meter object called 2008EA9 which will pass within a million kilometres or so of Earth in 2049. 2008EA9 has a very similar orbital velocity as Earth's. Baoyin and co calculate that it could be fired into Earth orbit by changing its velocity by 410 metres per second. That's tiny. This nudge should place the asteroid in an orbit at about twice the distance of the Moon. From there it can be studied and mined, they say. Just like Oterma's, this orbit is likely to be temporary so 2008EA9 will probably wander off into the heavens after a few years. Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong? Ref: arxiv.org/abs/1108.4767 http://arxiv.org/abs/1108.4767: Capturing Near Earth Objects __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong? What if the nudge is a little bit too strong? What if the Moon interferes? What if this NEO is thus sent hurtling toward planet Earth? - utter devestation - millions of people killed - wildfires - tsunamis - earthquakes - tons and tons of material ejected into the atmosphere - etc., etc. Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
You forgot Bernd the most importand change Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong? What if the nudge is a little bit too strong? What if the Moon interferes? What if this NEO is thus sent hurtling toward planet Earth? - utter devestation - millions of people killed - wildfires - tsunamis - earthquakes - tons and tons of material ejected into the atmosphere - etc., etc. - meteorites price fall Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
Hi Bernd, Marcin, Listees - H ... maybe that little nudge they describe can be controlled by a horse's hair and we can call the mission 'Damocles'! There are no interplanetary driver licences required nor parking permit bureau to issue a parking citation (except a citation of the scientific kind) ... so complaining about how the Chinese drive their rocket ships and cargo seems a bit futile ! see: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/61536 Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 5:51 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong? What if the nudge is a little bit too strong? What if the Moon interferes? What if this NEO is thus sent hurtling toward planet Earth? - utter devestation - millions of people killed - wildfires - tsunamis - earthquakes - tons and tons of material ejected into the atmosphere - etc., etc. Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
Hi, Bernd, List, A mere 10-meter spherical asteroid? (To a physicist, everything is spherical at the first approximation...) That's 523.6 cu. meters. At a rock density of 2 to 3 metric tons per cu. meter, that's somewhere between 1047.2 and 1570.8 metric tons. As a disaster, it's on a par with dropping a grand piano on a cartoon coyote. It would be a slow approach and MIGHT drop 10 kilos of meteorites, but probably not unless it grazed the atmosphere at the correct angle. However, a 10-meter asteroid is a tiny playground. What if it were a 100-meter asteroid, ten times bigger, and lots of surface (and about 1,000,000 tons). If you accidentally dropped that object on the Earth, you'd have a 250-meter crater and 0.2 MegaTon blast. Too big to play with. A 33-meter asteroid? Airbursts at 14 kilometers and splatters a lot of fast fragments, but no craters. From this I conclude that the 10-meter asteroid grab is a Modest Proposal. Unless, of course, it's an iron... Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong? What if the nudge is a little bit too strong? What if the Moon interferes? What if this NEO is thus sent hurtling toward planet Earth? - utter devestation - millions of people killed - wildfires - tsunamis - earthquakes - tons and tons of material ejected into the atmosphere - etc., etc. Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
Hi Sterling, list - what concerns your 33 m. Asteroid scenario: the Tunguska event, following actual insights, could have been caused by a stony asteroid (or comet) of low density, diameter 30 - 50 m. That is same weight division. No crater, indeed. But a bit more than a lot of fast fragments. When I try to imagine the fail of such an experiment over a megacity such as NY, I'd prefer much hurrican Irene ... Best regards, Matthias - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 1:01 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Hi, Bernd, List, A mere 10-meter spherical asteroid? (To a physicist, everything is spherical at the first approximation...) That's 523.6 cu. meters. At a rock density of 2 to 3 metric tons per cu. meter, that's somewhere between 1047.2 and 1570.8 metric tons. As a disaster, it's on a par with dropping a grand piano on a cartoon coyote. It would be a slow approach and MIGHT drop 10 kilos of meteorites, but probably not unless it grazed the atmosphere at the correct angle. However, a 10-meter asteroid is a tiny playground. What if it were a 100-meter asteroid, ten times bigger, and lots of surface (and about 1,000,000 tons). If you accidentally dropped that object on the Earth, you'd have a 250-meter crater and 0.2 MegaTon blast. Too big to play with. A 33-meter asteroid? Airbursts at 14 kilometers and splatters a lot of fast fragments, but no craters. From this I conclude that the 10-meter asteroid grab is a Modest Proposal. Unless, of course, it's an iron... Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong? What if the nudge is a little bit too strong? What if the Moon interferes? What if this NEO is thus sent hurtling toward planet Earth? - utter devestation - millions of people killed - wildfires - tsunamis - earthquakes - tons and tons of material ejected into the atmosphere - etc., etc. Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6420 (20110829) __ E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
.but, just think of all the meteorites that those of us who are left will have!! - and, we will have ground truth too! Dave - Original Message - From: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:51 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong? What if the nudge is a little bit too strong? What if the Moon interferes? What if this NEO is thus sent hurtling toward planet Earth? - utter devestation - millions of people killed - wildfires - tsunamis - earthquakes - tons and tons of material ejected into the atmosphere - etc., etc. Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
Meteorites for everyone!!! (that is left alive) :-0 Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Bernd V. Pauli Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:51 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong? What if the nudge is a little bit too strong? What if the Moon interferes? What if this NEO is thus sent hurtling toward planet Earth? - utter devestation - millions of people killed - wildfires - tsunamis - earthquakes - tons and tons of material ejected into the atmosphere - etc., etc. Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
Hello Sterling, Well, since the purpose of this is to mine an asteroid, it seems pretty foolish to waste all that effort on a 10 meter rock which you won't allow to be an iron. IT HAS TO BE AN IRON unless you want to waste money. Or do you want to mine antimony (element = Sb). That would be very successfully at mining Antimoney (element = $$$ouch$$$) !!! The problem is that most of the trace elements worth mining are siderophiles. So if you are going to mine silaceous, or most stony meteorites, I'd suggest going to a beach on earth (with a K-T outcropping if you insist ;-) with a tonka dump truck as the initial probe... Even at the 1 ppm level (a gross exaggeration for a stony meteorite), there is 1,200 grams of gold in your 1,200 ton 10 meter diameter spherical asteroid. Now I know gold is getting expensive, but let's keep our feet on terra firma. If you are going to mine anything, it needs to be worth it. Considering that mining such a small body is an expensive proposition (how do you think it would be smelted in orbit), they'd be better off just bringing back the 1,200 grams of raw asteroid and selling it to scientists and collectors. So, no matter how you cut up this pie in the sky in a spreadsheet, it ain't workin' Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 7:01 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Hi, Bernd, List, A mere 10-meter spherical asteroid? (To a physicist, everything is spherical at the first approximation...) That's 523.6 cu. meters. At a rock density of 2 to 3 metric tons per cu. meter, that's somewhere between 1047.2 and 1570.8 metric tons. As a disaster, it's on a par with dropping a grand piano on a cartoon coyote. It would be a slow approach and MIGHT drop 10 kilos of meteorites, but probably not unless it grazed the atmosphere at the correct angle. However, a 10-meter asteroid is a tiny playground. What if it were a 100-meter asteroid, ten times bigger, and lots of surface (and about 1,000,000 tons). If you accidentally dropped that object on the Earth, you'd have a 250-meter crater and 0.2 MegaTon blast. Too big to play with. A 33-meter asteroid? Airbursts at 14 kilometers and splatters a lot of fast fragments, but no craters. From this I conclude that the 10-meter asteroid grab is a Modest Proposal. Unless, of course, it's an iron... Sterling K. Webb - --- - Original Message - From: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong? What if the nudge is a little bit too strong? What if the Moon interferes? What if this NEO is thus sent hurtling toward planet Earth? - utter devestation - millions of people killed - wildfires - tsunamis - earthquakes - tons and tons of material ejected into the atmosphere - etc., etc. Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
Doug, List, I'll refer you to the book, Mining The Sky, by John S. Lewis, which makes a nice solid 260-page case for the economic value of the asteroids. Or to Harrison Schmidt's economic analysis of the value of mining the lunar surface for REE's (Rare Earth Elements). Iron is worth about $0.25 per kilo, but nickel is now over $12 per kilo, Lanthanum oxide $134 per kilo, Neodymium $260 per kilo, and so forth. Or maybe, just check this source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining At 1997 prices, a relatively small metallic asteroid with a diameter of 1.6 km (1 mile) contains more than 20 trillion US dollars worth of industrial and precious metals. At today's prices? A lot more. The not an iron comment was in relation to safety only. A 10-20-meter rock is safe to drop; an iron that size is not. Personally, I think the worry about accuracy of orbital maneuvers is silly and mis-placed. Few human operations are are so precise. Think about matchng up with Vesta from hundreds of millions of km away! The usual standard of accuracy is roughly akin to shooting the eye out of a one-eyed Jack at 100 miles away. Routine. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Hello Sterling, Well, since the purpose of this is to mine an asteroid, it seems pretty foolish to waste all that effort on a 10 meter rock which you won't allow to be an iron. IT HAS TO BE AN IRON unless you want to waste money. Or do you want to mine antimony (element = Sb). That would be very successfully at mining Antimoney (element = $$$ouch$$$) !!! The problem is that most of the trace elements worth mining are siderophiles. So if you are going to mine silaceous, or most stony meteorites, I'd suggest going to a beach on earth (with a K-T outcropping if you insist ;-) with a tonka dump truck as the initial probe... Even at the 1 ppm level (a gross exaggeration for a stony meteorite), there is 1,200 grams of gold in your 1,200 ton 10 meter diameter spherical asteroid. Now I know gold is getting expensive, but let's keep our feet on terra firma. If you are going to mine anything, it needs to be worth it. Considering that mining such a small body is an expensive proposition (how do you think it would be smelted in orbit), they'd be better off just bringing back the 1,200 grams of raw asteroid and selling it to scientists and collectors. So, no matter how you cut up this pie in the sky in a spreadsheet, it ain't workin' Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 7:01 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Hi, Bernd, List, A mere 10-meter spherical asteroid? (To a physicist, everything is spherical at the first approximation...) That's 523.6 cu. meters. At a rock density of 2 to 3 metric tons per cu. meter, that's somewhere between 1047.2 and 1570.8 metric tons. As a disaster, it's on a par with dropping a grand piano on a cartoon coyote. It would be a slow approach and MIGHT drop 10 kilos of meteorites, but probably not unless it grazed the atmosphere at the correct angle. However, a 10-meter asteroid is a tiny playground. What if it were a 100-meter asteroid, ten times bigger, and lots of surface (and about 1,000,000 tons). If you accidentally dropped that object on the Earth, you'd have a 250-meter crater and 0.2 MegaTon blast. Too big to play with. A 33-meter asteroid? Airbursts at 14 kilometers and splatters a lot of fast fragments, but no craters. From this I conclude that the 10-meter asteroid grab is a Modest Proposal. Unless, of course, it's an iron... Sterling K. Webb - --- - Original Message - From: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong? What if the nudge is a little bit too strong? What if the Moon interferes? What if this NEO is thus sent hurtling toward planet Earth? - utter devestation - millions of people killed - wildfires - tsunamis - earthquakes - tons and tons of material ejected into the atmosphere - etc., etc. Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives
Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit
Sterling wrote: Personally, I think the worry about accuracy of orbital maneuvers is silly and mis-placed. Few human operations are are so precise. Think about matching up with Vesta from hundreds of millions of km away! I can see it now: China say they are practicing mining and everyone thinks, 'ok, the Moon is 50 years old', Venus and Mars have been done, let them have their thing and waste their money on that foolish endeavor '. While they put an orbiting Damocles sword around the Earth which, if they choose, can make that crater, if they succeed as you believe, right on top of the White House or Kremlin, and no heat seeking defensive missle is gong to change that. A false sense of confidence by the guys pushing the buttons is all we need by systems governed by Finagle's Law. I think we have too many weapons' risks in the world and am completely unimpressed by the idea of going all out to get another Moon, no matter how small, given the 'silly' risk considering who will be controlling its orbit. Comparing asteroids of unknown composition, rotational, vibrational and translational energy, and variable tensile strength and mass which need to be determined in-situ on the fly and and space vehicles carefully assembled on Earth is apples and oranges - make that pygmy cherries and gibberellically modified Edmund Scientific pomelos I dreamed of as a kid. There is a vast amount of energy required for most of these asteroid maneuvers, and a great deal of uncertainty to deal with in a hostile environment for construction. It is not easy. Now, why rock the boat at all. Just hook up some thrusters to the ISS which will be about as visitable the way things are headed (or send a separate mission) and have it hook up with an asteroid like 2006 RH120 (A temporary moon of Earth at times). If these NEO's are so close, no sense fighting the steering wheel. Just go with the flow and do your business, the world is already full of # drivers. Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Sent: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 11:07 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Doug, List, I'll refer you to the book, Mining The Sky, by John S. Lewis, which makes a nice solid 260-page case for the economic value of the asteroids. Or to Harrison Schmidt's economic analysis of the value of mining the lunar surface for REE's (Rare Earth Elements). Iron is worth about $0.25 per kilo, but nickel is now over $12 per kilo, Lanthanum oxide $134 per kilo, Neodymium $260 per kilo, and so forth. Or maybe, just check this source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining At 1997 prices, a relatively small metallic asteroid with a diameter of 1.6 km (1 mile) contains more than 20 trillion US dollars worth of industrial and precious metals. At today's prices? A lot more. The not an iron comment was in relation to safety only. A 10-20-meter rock is safe to drop; an iron that size is not. Personally, I think the worry about accuracy of orbital maneuvers is silly and mis-placed. Few human operations are are so precise. Think about matchng up with Vesta from hundreds of millions of km away! The usual standard of accuracy is roughly akin to shooting the eye out of a one-eyed Jack at 100 miles away. Routine. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Plan To Place An Asteroid In Earth Orbit Hello Sterling, Well, since the purpose of this is to mine an asteroid, it seems pretty foolish to waste all that effort on a 10 meter rock which you won't allow to be an iron. IT HAS TO BE AN IRON unless you want to waste money. Or do you want to mine antimony (element = Sb). That would be very successfully at mining Antimoney (element = $$$ouch$$$) !!! The problem is that most of the trace elements worth mining are siderophiles. So if you are going to mine silaceous, or most stony meteorites, I'd suggest going to a beach on earth (with a K-T outcropping if you insist ;-) with a tonka dump truck as the initial probe... Even at the 1 ppm level (a gross exaggeration for a stony meteorite), there is 1,200 grams of gold in your 1,200 ton 10 meter diameter spherical asteroid. Now I know gold is getting expensive, but let's keep our feet on terra firma. If you are going to mine anything, it needs to be worth it. Considering that mining such a small body is an expensive proposition (how do you think it would be smelted in orbit), they'd be better off just bringing back the 1,200 grams of raw asteroid and selling it to scientists and collectors. So, no
