Re: [meteorite-list] Double-Blind Experiments Testing Dowsing
Too..Too..funny... Thanks, Jason. How true. Why in the hell doesn't it ever enter the consciousness of those that believe the crap that re-surfaces every ten years or so .. like mattress magnets, copper bracelets, voodoo dolls (I have three..they don't work)charm stones..levitation..ghosts...mind and palm readers...magic...yeah dowsing and anything that happened around Roswell, New Mexico..that if any of this b...sh.. had efficacy the world.. and I mean the whole world... of opportunists, entrepreneurs, scientists, doctors, institutions, governments and ME.. would be all over it like white on a golf ball. Best to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- >From: Jason Utas >Sent: Oct 20, 2010 11:54 AM >To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Double-Blind Experiments Testing Dowsing > >To nudge the dying horse... >Thank you, Paul, for posting such comprehensive studies. >Perhaps the others who stubbornly insist on believing in pseudoscience >will slowly realize that their claims are based on ignorance, and not >true "open-mindedness." While innovation in both invention and idea >has always relied on the willingness of people to change their >opinions, one should remember that whenever major changes to our way >of thinking about the world have been introduced, they have almost >always encountered opposition from the pseudo-scientific crowd. I see >this as a continuation of that theme: people holding on to dogma >because they want to. Which means that you're never going to change >their minds, no matter how complete the evidence against it. >Oddly enough, this came up today! xkcd's a popular comic with the >more scientifically minded collegiate crowd - **make sure to let your >cursor rest over the image to see the commentary - it can oftentimes >be funnier than the comic itself. > >http://xkcd.com/808/ > >I don't know what the odds were of that, but it sure was a pleasant surprise.. >Regards, >Jason > > >On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Martin Altmann > wrote: >> Shht Paul, relying in the abilities of animals, >> >> and knowing the Romanian method to avoid underground watercourses - just >> drive a pig into your house, wait, where it lays down to sleep - there is >> the right place for the bed, >> - not to mention their geomantic help to locate truffles >> (a stuff more expensive than ordinary meteorites or irons) >> >> I start to train dowsing helpers: >> >> http://www.agilitysports.ch/images/schwein_gehabt.jpg >> >> >> Best! >> Martin >> >> >> >> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- >> Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Paul H. >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2010 15:43 >> An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Double-Blind Experiments Testing Dowsing >> >> >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >__ >Visit the Archives at >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Double-Blind Experiments Testing Dowsing
To nudge the dying horse... Thank you, Paul, for posting such comprehensive studies. Perhaps the others who stubbornly insist on believing in pseudoscience will slowly realize that their claims are based on ignorance, and not true "open-mindedness." While innovation in both invention and idea has always relied on the willingness of people to change their opinions, one should remember that whenever major changes to our way of thinking about the world have been introduced, they have almost always encountered opposition from the pseudo-scientific crowd. I see this as a continuation of that theme: people holding on to dogma because they want to. Which means that you're never going to change their minds, no matter how complete the evidence against it. Oddly enough, this came up today! xkcd's a popular comic with the more scientifically minded collegiate crowd - **make sure to let your cursor rest over the image to see the commentary - it can oftentimes be funnier than the comic itself. http://xkcd.com/808/ I don't know what the odds were of that, but it sure was a pleasant surprise.. Regards, Jason On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Martin Altmann wrote: > Shht Paul, relying in the abilities of animals, > > and knowing the Romanian method to avoid underground watercourses - just > drive a pig into your house, wait, where it lays down to sleep - there is > the right place for the bed, > - not to mention their geomantic help to locate truffles > (a stuff more expensive than ordinary meteorites or irons) > > I start to train dowsing helpers: > > http://www.agilitysports.ch/images/schwein_gehabt.jpg > > > Best! > Martin > > > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Paul H. > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2010 15:43 > An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Double-Blind Experiments Testing Dowsing > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Double-Blind Experiments Testing Dowsing
Shht Paul, relying in the abilities of animals, and knowing the Romanian method to avoid underground watercourses - just drive a pig into your house, wait, where it lays down to sleep - there is the right place for the bed, - not to mention their geomantic help to locate truffles (a stuff more expensive than ordinary meteorites or irons) I start to train dowsing helpers: http://www.agilitysports.ch/images/schwein_gehabt.jpg Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Paul H. Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2010 15:43 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Double-Blind Experiments Testing Dowsing __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Double-Blind Experiments Testing Dowsing
In "You Naysaying Denialists Are All Wrong, Dowsing Works!" for the meteorite list, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: "Speaking of experimental scientific method, I would like to propose a simple, reproducible experiment that can be performed by any genius, near-genius, idiot or near-idiot.", Actually double-blind experiments testing the effectiveness of dowsing have been conducted and published. They include: Banks, G., D. Gill, and V. Ezerins, 2005, Test Report: The Detection Capability of the Sniffex Handheld Explosives Detector. Naval EOD Technology Division, Naval Seas Systems Command, Department of Defense, Indian Head, Maryland. http://www.scribd.com/doc/26050076/Navy-Report-From-Pro-Public-A http://www.docstoc.com/docs/23365128/Test-Report-The-Detection-Capability-of-the-Sniffex-Handheld-Explosives-Detector Enright, J. T. 1995. Water dowsing: The Scheunen experiments. Naturwissenschaften. vol. 82, no. 8, pp. 360-369. Enright, J. T., 1999, Testing Dowsing: The Failure of the Munich Experiments. Skeptical Inquirer. vol. 23, no. 1. http://www.csicop.org/si/show/testing_dowsing_the_failure_of_the_munich_experiments/ McCarney, R., F. Fisher, F. Spink, G. Flint, and R. van Haselen, 2002, Can homeopaths detect homeopathic medicines by dowsing? A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine. vol. 4, pp. 189-191. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1279512/ Murray, D, 2002, Double-Blind Field Evaluation of the MOLE Programmable Detection System. Entry Control and Contraband Detection Department, Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque, New Mexico. http://www.justnet.org/Pages/RecordView.aspx?itemid=440 http://www.justnet.org/Lists/JUSTNET%20Resources/Attachments/440/moleeval_apr02.pdf Murray, D. W., F. W. Spencer, D. D. Spencer, 1998, Double- Blind Evaluation of the DKL LifeGuard Model 2. Sandia Report SAND98-0977. , Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque, New Mexico. http://prod.sandia.gov/techlib/access-control.cgi/1998/980977.pdf A book that discusses dowsing in great detail is: Vogt, E. Z., and R. Hyman, 2000. Water Witching USA., 2nd ed., University of Chicago Press, Chicago, 248 pp. Related articles and papers are: Brassington, F. C., 1998, Water divining. Encyclopedia of Hydrology and Lakes. Encyclopedia of Earth Sciences Series no. 22, pp. 690-695. Kluwer Academic Publishers, New York. Carpenter, W. B., 1852, On the influence of suggestion in modifying and directing muscular movement, independently of volition. Proceedings of the Royal Institution of Great Britain. vol. 1, pp. 147-153. Carrold, R. T., 1999, Dowsing for Dollars: Fighting High-Tech Promises with Low-Tech Critical Thinking Skills. Skeptics Dictionary. http://www.skepdic.com/essays/dowsingfordollars.html Enright, J. T., 1996, Dowsers Lost in a Barn. Naturwissenschaften. vol. 83, no. 6, pp. 275-277. Perrine, L., 1998, 'Human presence detector' fails controlled tests conducted by Sandia National Laboratories. Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque, New Mexico. http://www.sandia.gov/media/hudet.htm Randi, J. dowsing, 1995, James Randi Educational Foundation. http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/dowsing.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
