Re: [meteorite-list] Earth time dilation: minimal latitude-dependence

[Ben Fisler via Meteorite-list]

Yes, thanks Doug and Rob.  That is more about physics than having an inside 
seat at NASA.  You guys are truly Wu-Li Masters!
   Ben Fisler, Phoenix

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2016, at 5:38 AM, Doug Ross via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

>> However given the speed he travels at, I would think Santa's waistline would 
>> be ablated after the run, and he would leave ionic trails. Not to mention, 
>> Rudolf's nose would be blue-shifted beyond UV the spectrum of visible light.
> 
> Lol! You guys crack me up. Thanks for livening up the list with a great 
> thread.
> 
> Doug Ross
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Earth time dilation: minimal latitude-dependence

[Doug Ross via Meteorite-list]

> However given the speed he travels at, I would think Santa's waistline would 
> be ablated after the run, and he would leave ionic trails. Not to mention, 
> Rudolf's nose would be blue-shifted beyond UV the spectrum of visible light.

Lol! You guys crack me up. Thanks for livening up the list with a great thread.

Doug Ross






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Re: [meteorite-list] Earth time dilation: minimal latitude-dependence

[MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list]

> I'm now working through the math to figure 
> out the latitude on earth where you age the
> slowest. ;-)

Hi Rob, and fellow time pirates,

That's one interesting calculation and I'd have thought the latitude was 
slam-dunk 90 N, because that's over 20 km closer to the center of gravity all 
surface points on the equator according to the shapes that fit the spinning 
oblate globe!  

Time dilation at the north pole factory, and near-light speed travel (like over 
99.% the speed of light) could help explain how Santa's factory churns out 
all those toys in such a short time and easily delivers them, plus NORAD keeps 
a very close eye on him: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LppGorkw508

However given the speed he travels at, I would think Santa's waistline would be 
ablated after the run, and he would leave ionic trails. Not to mention, 
Rudolf's nose would be blue-shifted beyond UV the spectrum of visible light. 
(Which means the above NORAD video describes an inefficient tracking procedure) 
... so maybe they have ulterior motives.

How to define "aging"?  A loss of a few unhealthy isotopes?  Biological clocks 
are as complicated a finding the Fountain of Youth here in Florida (though it 
may exist in a deep sinkhole somewhere) ... and have a temperature dependence.

A meteoroid on the other hand can weather (suspended on autopilot) 4.57 billion 
years and be fresh aside from the isotope composition, unless it meets some 
heat, radiation, reactants such as oxygen, and/or solvents like water.

And even further back to meteorites:  Rob's comment that Earth's core is around 
a year or two younger helps motivate ballpark limits of aging in the context of 
the original discussion on meteorite age.  If the core of Earth is limited to 
be calculated as 2.5 years younger than the crust, this is the order of 
magnitude of the limit we are dealing with for time dilation for most 
meteoroids.

We can compare that to the age of the Solar System, which is peer reviewed from 
a refractory inclusion in NWA 2364 (CV3) that give the age as 4,568.2 million 
years.  Without looking up if they covered their error bars in the 
determination, just consider the significant figures alone they quote which 
leave us with an uncertainty of 100,000 years.   So before we have to worry 
about time dilation for native small Solar System objects forcing a time 
adjustment, we will have to know the age of the Solar System to within say, 10 
years or so.  Not that Rome was built in a day ;-)

Kindest wishes,
Doug



-Original Message-
From: Matson, Rob D. 
To: MexicoDoug ; meteorite-list 

Sent: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 4:13 pm
Subject: Earth time dilation: minimal latitude-dependence

Hi All,

> I'm now working through the math to figure out the latitude on earth where you
> age the slowest.

Turns out the combination of 1/r GR effect from mass, a latitude-dependent 
quadrupole
component, and the centripetal term (special relativity) due to the earth's 
rotation nearly
compensate for one another in such a way that there is very little change in 
clock speeds
at the earth's surface as a strict function of latitude. Clocks run slowest at 
the equator,
marginally faster at midlatitudes, and then slower again at the poles (but not 
quite as
slow as at the equator). Local changes in gravitational field strength probably 
dominate
over changes with latitude. And altitude plays a much stronger roll at any 
latitude.

--Rob


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[meteorite-list] Earth time dilation: minimal latitude-dependence

[Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list]

Hi All,

> I'm now working through the math to figure out the latitude on earth where you
> age the slowest.

Turns out the combination of 1/r GR effect from mass, a latitude-dependent 
quadrupole
component, and the centripetal term (special relativity) due to the earth's 
rotation nearly
compensate for one another in such a way that there is very little change in 
clock speeds
at the earth's surface as a strict function of latitude. Clocks run slowest at 
the equator,
marginally faster at midlatitudes, and then slower again at the poles (but not 
quite as
slow as at the equator). Local changes in gravitational field strength probably 
dominate
over changes with latitude. And altitude plays a much stronger roll at any 
latitude.

--Rob

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