FW: [meteorite-list] Elma status ++
-Original Message- From: Charles R. Viau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:18 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: FW: [meteorite-list] Elma status HI, I would like to clarify what I said about: “ I wonder if the analysts themselves are really kind of their own boss, and perhaps take on what they feel is easy to disprove first, and then get wrapped up in the enigma of trying to prove just what it is when it cannot be easily explained.”…. I am talking here about the scientists who are doing the petrologic research, not those who have done the field work and field research. Thanks, Charles
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma status
Hi List, Charles I would think that all of this is relevant information for future meteoritics and other physical sciences. And, my guess is that there will be some masters or doctorial papers resulting from these small, curious items. The fact that some little analysis has been done would be to verify the worthiness of the items for such research. They would have to show enough "strangeness" to warrent a research project. This is something profs are always looking for to further education and give students new and unusual items to fathom and pry information from. I too, would like to see some classifications get done in a more timely manner, but I also support educational endevors. Mark - Original Message - From: Charles R. Viau To: 'Pekka Savolainen' ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 'Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral' Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:38 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Elma status Pekka, Robert Verish and Robert Matson had some excellent comments on this, and I wanted to comment back to each For Pekka, Thanks for sharing that data. The chemical analysis looks somewhat similar to what I have been told , but does vary. Some people I have talked to thought that the total absence of MgO and MnO were just as strange. Some said that these were also common impurities in slag, especially in minerals related to Ilmenite, and the ratios and streak did not match. Also, the physical characteristics of the individual pieces seemed to have a very thin, even coating of the glass and that a slag would most likely be homogenous or glass on one side with material on the other who knows. It is real strange and I think that what bothers the analysts the most is that they cannot explain how it was made. I think an electrical or plasma mechanism is really interesting and wonder if there is even enough existing data on such phenomena to help them there as well. I also hope that the resulting analysis wont require a PhD in petrology to decipher J For Robert M and Robert V, I agree that there should be a priority for those that have worked so hard and have material in a queue to be examined. I wonder if the analysts themselves are really kind of their own boss, and perhaps take on what they feel is easy to disprove first, and then get wrapped up in the enigma of trying to prove just what it is when it cannot be easily explained. And/or it was the immediacy of the Elma event, the story content and the speed in which samples were available to them In any case, the NWA thing has hurt a lot of research and NASA should never have shut the doors on domestic researchers that have finds that have been properly documented. What they needed to do was put someone in charge of clearing these finds from the NWA imports based on the documentation and credibility of the finders. Thanks, Charles, IMCA 4351
RE: [meteorite-list] Elma status
Pekka, Robert Verish and Robert Matson had some excellent comments on this, and I wanted to comment back to each… For Pekka, Thanks for sharing that data. The chemical analysis looks somewhat similar to what I have been told , but does vary. Some people I have talked to thought that the total absence of MgO and MnO were just as strange. Some said that these were also common impurities in slag, especially in minerals related to Ilmenite, and the ratio’s and streak did not match. Also, the physical characteristics of the individual pieces seemed to have a very thin, even coating of the glass and that a slag would most likely be homogenous or glass on one side with material on the other… who knows. It is real strange and I think that what bothers the analysts the most is that they cannot explain how it was made. I think an electrical or plasma mechanism is really interesting and wonder if there is even enough existing data on such phenomena to help them there as well. I also hope that the resulting analysis won’t require a PhD in petrology to decipher… J For Robert M and Robert V, I agree that there should be a priority for those that have worked so hard and have material in a queue to be examined. I wonder if the analysts themselves are really kind of their own boss, and perhaps take on what they feel is easy to disprove first, and then get wrapped up in the enigma of trying to prove just what it is when it cannot be easily explained. And/or it was the immediacy of the Elma event, the story content and the speed in which samples were available to them…In any case, the NWA thing has hurt a lot of research and NASA should never have shut the doors on domestic researchers that have finds that have been properly documented. What they needed to do was put someone in charge of clearing these finds from the NWA imports based on the documentation and credibility of the finders. Thanks, Charles, IMCA 4351
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma status and Tucson Room Rates
Mike, Thanks for your reply. I never meant to indicate that I thought it was a meteorite. I am interested to find out what they determined this material to be. And what better source to find out from then the meteorite list. Charles, Thanks for your information on the status of the Elma material. I found it to be quite interesting. To all members interested in the Tucson room rates please read below. These were the most reasonable we found. Towneplace Suites By Marriott Tucson $79.00 per nite 888-254-0637. Best Western Inn Suites $89.99 with AAA discount. 520-297-8111 Thanks, Sonny
RE: [meteorite-list] Elma status and other interesting things.
Robert, Post away, but please refrain from the asphalt and tar non-sense; it's gone way beyond that... Adam and list, Thanks Adam, I had fun doing them and eagerly await seeing what a SEM scan shows of that material as well as the comments from the examiners. In another subject: I just got back from a 9 day excursion in Utah exploring the known KT exposure areas in the Wasatch Plateau, Spanish Fork and the grand staircase through Escalante on up to Capitol Reef. What incredible places these are and it is somewhat overwhelming. Special thanks to Dr Tony Ekdale (U of U) for his response to my inquiries prior to my trip and his excellent tips. Additional thanks to Dr. Robert L. Eves, (SUU) for the excellent road logs and grand staircase stratigraphy details. It is amazing what you can find on main routes, however, the off-road trips were absolutely fascinating. . I have collected some great sample material (with permission, US national parks and Utah Geological Survey, Dept of Natural Resources) and took a few hundred 35mm and digital images. It will take some time to compile everything in a reasonable journal and once completed, I would like to share it with list members who would be interested. I think the subject matter shares at least equal with meteoritics and geology, so I will post the links to a geology list as well. Utah is an incredible state with a wealth of natural resources and I look forward to spending some more time there. Regards Charles Viau IMCA 4351 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Verish Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 5:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma status Charles R. Viau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "and while probably not a meteorite by definition..." ? "...if the word ELMA bothers you, delete this message and please don't respond to the list." ! - Be advised, Charles! It isn't just Farmer that has a problem with this subject and I just may have to "respond to this list"..., (but I've decided to take my post to bed with me and "sleep on it" ;-) until the morning... ...unless another List dedicated only to meteor-wrongs comes on-line overnight! [Yes, I know about that other List, but that's for "members only"] Have a Good Morning All, Bob V. [meteorite-list] Elma status Charles R. Viau [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon, 25 Aug 2003 01:57:33 -0400 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Elma status Next message: [meteorite-list] Ebay Meteorite - AD Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=_NextPart_000_000A_01C36AAC.4342B430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Sonny and List, The Elma objects remains a mystery, and while probably not a meteorite by definition, remains a very seriously studied material by a number of leading labs and scientists. There are papers due out on this material soon and we will just have to wait to see what the professional world has to say about it. Many have already seen some preliminary chemistry results that were posted, as well as some microprobe results. If you get into that stuff, then you can probably see why there is so much controversy over the origin of this material. Equally interesting are some of the low power microscope images. Adam Hupe had spearheaded the effort to get this material seen by some of the best authorities available, and I believe that if not for his excellent scientific method, this event would be lost forever. Adam had requested that I re-post some imagery I had provided previously for anyone still interested in this stuff. A rather low-res composite page can be found here: http://home.beld.net/~belugaband/images/ElmaComposite.jpg If anyone wants some higher resolution imagery, just ask, and I will be glad to email them to you. Thanks, Charles IMCA 4351 __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma status
Answer, Elma is a scam, a waste of time, not a meteorite. All hotels rais their rates for that time of year just for the Tucson show. Mike Farmer Writing from a place where my thermometer just topped out at the max of 125 degrees! Dreaming of cool Tucson right now. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi List, > > Does anyone have any new information on the Elma > material/glass? > > On another subject, there are a few hotels in Tucson > with reasonable rates > for next February's show. Many hotels have raised > their prices substantially for > that week. We have found a few hotels for $79 per > night and are currently > researching the area which would be best suited for > a central location. I will > let you know when I get more information. > > Thanks, > >Sonny > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Elma status
Charles R. Viau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "and while probably not a meteorite by definition..." ? "...if the word ELMA bothers you, delete this message and please don't respond to the list." ! - Be advised, Charles! It isn't just Farmer that has a problem with this subject and I just may have to "respond to this list"..., (but I've decided to take my post to bed with me and "sleep on it" ;-) until the morning... ...unless another List dedicated only to meteor-wrongs comes on-line overnight! [Yes, I know about that other List, but that's for "members only"] Have a Good Morning All, Bob V. [meteorite-list] Elma status Charles R. Viau [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon, 25 Aug 2003 01:57:33 -0400 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Elma status Next message: [meteorite-list] Ebay Meteorite - AD Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=_NextPart_000_000A_01C36AAC.4342B430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Sonny and List, The Elma objects remains a mystery, and while probably not a meteorite by definition, remains a very seriously studied material by a number of leading labs and scientists. There are papers due out on this material soon and we will just have to wait to see what the professional world has to say about it. Many have already seen some preliminary chemistry results that were posted, as well as some microprobe results. If you get into that stuff, then you can probably see why there is so much controversy over the origin of this material. Equally interesting are some of the low power microscope images. Adam Hupe had spearheaded the effort to get this material seen by some of the best authorities available, and I believe that if not for his excellent scientific method, this event would be lost forever. Adam had requested that I re-post some imagery I had provided previously for anyone still interested in this stuff. A rather low-res composite page can be found here: http://home.beld.net/~belugaband/images/ElmaComposite.jpg If anyone wants some higher resolution imagery, just ask, and I will be glad to email them to you. Thanks, Charles IMCA 4351 __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Elma status
Hi Sonny and List, The Elma objects remains a mystery, and while probably not a meteorite by definition, remains a very seriously studied material by a number of leading labs and scientists. There are papers due out on this material soon and we will just have to wait to see what the professional world has to say about it. Many have already seen some preliminary chemistry results that were posted, as well as some microprobe results. If you get into that stuff, then you can probably see why there is so much controversy over the origin of this material. Equally interesting are some of the low power microscope images. Adam Hupe had spearheaded the effort to get this material seen by some of the best authorities available, and I believe that if not for his excellent scientific method, this event would be lost forever. Adam had requested that I re-post some imagery I had provided previously for anyone still interested in this stuff. A rather low-res composite page can be found here: http://home.beld.net/~belugaband/images/ElmaComposite.jpg If anyone wants some higher resolution imagery, just ask, and I will be glad to email them to you. Thanks, Charles IMCA 4351 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 2:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma status Hi List, Does anyone have any new information on the Elma material/glass? On another subject, there are a few hotels in Tucson with reasonable rates for next February's show. Many hotels have raised their prices substantially for that week. We have found a few hotels for $79 per night and are currently researching the area which would be best suited for a central location. I will let you know when I get more information. Thanks, Sonny
[meteorite-list] Elma status
Hi List, Does anyone have any new information on the Elma material/glass? On another subject, there are a few hotels in Tucson with reasonable rates for next February's show. Many hotels have raised their prices substantially for that week. We have found a few hotels for $79 per night and are currently researching the area which would be best suited for a central location. I will let you know when I get more information. Thanks, Sonny
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hi Tom and List, Nope, no spiders, leaves or any other organic material was found as in the famous Frass unit. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Hello everybody, Adam wrote; > "As has been > reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell." > > Sounds like the frass meteorite, was there any living organisms inside with > the sand? Be sure to be suited up in protective gear when handling This Elma > stuff! > > Thanks, Tom > Peregrineflier <>< > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > - Original Message - > From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Hi Mike, Mike and List, > > > > The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It could > > prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. The > > jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was created. > > The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has been > > reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell. > > The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever > > created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was > quenched > > very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might have > > been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is looking > > more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are > > keeping an open mind regarding this material. > > > > All the best, > > > > Adam and Greg Hupe > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a > > meteorite > > > was recovered there. > > > Mike Farmer > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Everyone- > > > >Is this all said and done with or is the jury still > > > > out with any maybe's? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > __ > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > __ > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Dear List, I personally witnessed ball lightning in the AZ desert only 6 months ago and it was probably the most intense and dramatic event I've ever witnessed. Ball lightning does exist and it can last for several minutes; the one I saw lasted over two full minutes. As a matter of fact, the one I witnessed actually buried itself in the earth so it could not be seen directly but only by the reflections of colored light from the clouds above it. Really REALLY weird stuff whatever it is. Kindest Regards, Mark Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Dear Elma Statisticians; I still follow the instinct that guides me in the direction of some industrial, or environmental deposition from industry, air travel, or other man related waste product. Though not having been to Park Forest specifically, the concentration of humans and industry with in a 100 mile radius of the area, and of the visual impact of the air and water, would certainly offer indication that any anomalous substance could come from human/industrial origin. Gary Indiana is not that far away, and historically, it is a giant boiling tea kettle of environmental questions. Has there been an attempt to search a grid pattern outside of the inferred strewnfield for like specimens? A controlled experiment zone to prove that the unknowns are ONLY in the affected area would be quite useful. Again, I wonder where the nearest large incinerator is to the area. Foundries, aggregate dryers, blast furnaces all seemingly would emit something during casualty situationsOR, X-files, how about Soylent Green? Good morning, Dave Freeman M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote: Ohhh well well. Matteo --- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Mike, Mike and List, The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It could prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. The jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was created. The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has been reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell. The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was quenched very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might have been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is looking more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are keeping an open mind regarding this material. All the best, Adam and Greg Hupe - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a meteorite was recovered there. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Everyone- Is this all said and done with or is the jury still out with any maybe's? Thanks, Mike __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a meteorite was recovered there. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Everyone- >Is this all said and done with or is the jury still > out with any maybe's? > Thanks, > Mike > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hello all I waited with anxiety the result of the fake Elma meteorite, alone to see the face of who sold this material on ebay teasing the people and now know that does not exist any Elma meteorite. Regards Matteo --- "Charles R. Viau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >If this is what the List members want. I will > simply will not post > future >results obtained in the lab regarding this > material, pretty > simple, no need >for you and Mike to get nasty > > This is NOT what this list member wants. This is > supposed to be a > free-format forum where people who share the same > passion get to share > their experiences with peers. I have a major > objection to being denied > information that I am interested in, just because > some people feel it is > ok to show such disrespect to someone just because > the subject does not > gel with their personal view of what is important. > Think about that - > They only future information you will get is exactly > what you want to > hear. Isn't that F($%!&$ scientific! > > Charlyv > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Adam > Hupe > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:19 PM > To: Tom aka James Knudson > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > Hi Tom and List members, > > I am only responding because a problem seems to be > developing here. > Mike > Farmer claims scientists are wasting their time on > this material and > that > this is a waste of bandwidth on the List. The > scientists are the ones > who > dispatched us to bring this material to them. The > University of > Washington > is studying this material own their own and we are > simply assisting by > bringing material in. If you look at the archives I > did not initiate > this > "Elma status" chain, I simply responded to a > question. You propagated > this > long string by asking several questions which were > posted to the list. > Since they were posted to the List I responded > publicly. If this means > I am > wasting bandwidth you are just as guilty by posting > questions to the > list. > > If this is what the List members want. I will > simply will not post > future > results obtained in the lab regarding this material, > pretty simple, no > need > for you and Mike to get nasty. > > All the best, > > Adam > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Adam > Hupe" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:31 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Hello List, Mike wrote; > > ", I am simply offended by people wasting > > scientific time with nonsense, especially now when > it can take years > to > get > > a simple classification." > > > > I have to agree with mike here. Adam and Greg > said this was not a > meteorite > > in the beginning, and I think they would know! > But, I for one, have > been > > chastised big time for posting OT things to the > list. There was not a > fall > > in Elma and the things the people from Elma are > claiming to meteorites > are > > not meteorites and in my opinion have no place on > the list. I am > interested > > in the end result, but until then, I think we > should save Art some > bandwidth > > on this subject. > > > > Thanks, Tom > > Peregrineflier <>< > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > > - Original Message - > > From: Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:12 AM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Ok Adam, tell us all, where did you get your > science degree? Oh I > forgot, > > > you have none, so please stop playing scientist. > > > I don't have a closed mind, I am simply offended > by people wasting > > > scientific time with nonsense, especially now > when it can take years > to > > get > > > a simple classification. > > > Mike Farmer > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Thursday, August
[meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Everyone- Is this all said and done with or is the jury still out with any maybe's? Thanks, Mike __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hello everybody, Adam wrote; "As has been reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell." Sounds like the frass meteorite, was there any living organisms inside with the sand? Be sure to be suited up in protective gear when handling This Elma stuff! Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier <>< The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Hi Mike, Mike and List, > > The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It could > prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. The > jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was created. > The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has been > reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell. > The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever > created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was quenched > very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might have > been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is looking > more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are > keeping an open mind regarding this material. > > All the best, > > Adam and Greg Hupe > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a > meteorite > > was recovered there. > > Mike Farmer > > - Original Message - > > From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Everyone- > > >Is this all said and done with or is the jury still > > > out with any maybe's? > > > Thanks, > > > Mike > > > > > > __ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hello All, How about a glass manufacturing bi-product? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier <>< The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Hi Tom and List, > > The problem with this material is that it does not contain any metal. If it > was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal, even at microprobe > levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material coming from an > industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard of. If it came > from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center. The sand is also > trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like chondrules, like a > condensation product, which is extremely odd. It was extremely difficult to > make thin-sections of this stuff because of the friability of the material > trapped inside. > > Will update as we get more results, > > Adam > > > - Original Message - > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "mafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "meteor central" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:39 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting bi-product from a > > foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma? > > Thanks, Tom > > Peregrineflier <>< > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > > ----- Original Message - > > From: mafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: meteor central <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and smoldering pieces of > > > "basaltic" glass with sand inside, sounds like some atmospheric event > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, Mike and List, > > > > > > > > The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It > could > > > > prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. > > The > > > > jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was > > created. > > > > The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has > been > > > > reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass > > shell. > > > > The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever > > > > created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was > > > quenched > > > > very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might > > have > > > > been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is > > looking > > > > more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are > > > > keeping an open mind regarding this material. > > > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > > > Adam and Greg Hupe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List" > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a > > > > meteorite > > > > > was recovered there. > > > > > Mike Farmer > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > > From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM > > > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone- > > > > > >Is this all said and done with or is
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Ball lightning? I've seen it before and it could possibly fool people into thinking it is a meteor. Now about making some type of fulgurite, I couldn't tell you. Just a thought. Dave Adam Hupe wrote: Hi Tom and List, The problem with this material is that it does not contain any metal. If it was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal, even at microprobe levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material coming from an industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard of. If it came from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center. The sand is also trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like chondrules, like a condensation product, which is extremely odd. It was extremely difficult to make thin-sections of this stuff because of the friability of the material trapped inside. Will update as we get more results, Adam - Original Message - From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "mafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "meteor central" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting bi-product from a foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier <>< The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: mafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: meteor central <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and smoldering pieces of "basaltic" glass with sand inside, sounds like some atmospheric event - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hi Mike, Mike and List, The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It could prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. The jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was created. The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has been reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell. The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was quenched very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might have been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is looking more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are keeping an open mind regarding this material. All the best, Adam and Greg Hupe - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a meteorite was recovered there. Mike Farmer ----- Original Message - From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Everyone- Is this all said and done with or is the jury still out with any maybe's? Thanks, Mike __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and smoldering pieces of "basaltic" glass with sand inside, sounds like some atmospheric event - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Hi Mike, Mike and List, > > The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It could > prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. The > jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was created. > The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has been > reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell. > The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever > created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was quenched > very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might have > been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is looking > more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are > keeping an open mind regarding this material. > > All the best, > > Adam and Greg Hupe > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a > meteorite > > was recovered there. > > Mike Farmer > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Everyone- > > >Is this all said and done with or is the jury still > > > out with any maybe's? > > > Thanks, > > > Mike > > > > > > __ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hi Tom, No glass manufacturing process would use this kind of sand because of it impurities and why would glass be spread into a shot-put pit where kids could get cut on the sharp edges? I am not going to speculate too much more until we get more lab results. Two other labs have weighed in on this occurrence and it just keeps getting odder. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Hello All, How about a glass manufacturing bi-product? > Thanks, Tom > Peregrineflier <>< > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > - Original Message - > From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:08 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Hi Tom and List, > > > > The problem with this material is that it does not contain any metal. If > it > > was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal, even at > microprobe > > levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material coming from an > > industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard of. If it came > > from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center. The sand is also > > trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like chondrules, like a > > condensation product, which is extremely odd. It was extremely difficult > to > > make thin-sections of this stuff because of the friability of the material > > trapped inside. > > > > Will update as we get more results, > > > > Adam > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "mafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: "meteor central" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:39 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting bi-product from a > > > foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma? > > > Thanks, Tom > > > Peregrineflier <>< > > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > > > - Original Message - > > > From: mafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: meteor central <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and smoldering pieces > of > > > > "basaltic" glass with sand inside, sounds like some atmospheric event > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, Mike and List, > > > > > > > > > > The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It > > could > > > > > prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. > > > The > > > > > jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was > > > created. > > > > > The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has > > been > > > > > reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass > > > shell. > > > > > The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what > ever > > > > > created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was > > > > quenched > > > > > very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might > > > have > > > > > been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is > > > looking > > > > > more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we > are > > > > > keeping an open mind regarding this material. > > > > > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > > > > > Adam and Greg Hupe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > &g
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hi Tom and List, The problem with this material is that it does not contain any metal. If it was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal, even at microprobe levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material coming from an industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard of. If it came from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center. The sand is also trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like chondrules, like a condensation product, which is extremely odd. It was extremely difficult to make thin-sections of this stuff because of the friability of the material trapped inside. Will update as we get more results, Adam - Original Message - From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "mafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "meteor central" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting bi-product from a > foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma? > Thanks, Tom > Peregrineflier <>< > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > - Original Message - > From: mafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: meteor central <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and smoldering pieces of > > "basaltic" glass with sand inside, sounds like some atmospheric event > > > > ----- Original Message - > > From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Hi Mike, Mike and List, > > > > > > The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It could > > > prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. > The > > > jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was > created. > > > The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has been > > > reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass > shell. > > > The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever > > > created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was > > quenched > > > very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might > have > > > been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is > looking > > > more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are > > > keeping an open mind regarding this material. > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > Adam and Greg Hupe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a > > > meteorite > > > > was recovered there. > > > > Mike Farmer > > > > - Original Message - > > > > From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM > > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone- > > > > >Is this all said and done with or is the jury still > > > > > out with any maybe's? > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Ok Adam, tell us all, where did you get your science degree? Oh I forgot, you have none, so please stop playing scientist. I don't have a closed mind, I am simply offended by people wasting scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to get a simple classification. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Hey Mike and Dear List, > > Ex and current NASA scientist know the difference between tar and glass. > Maybe you should have an open mind because you would be blown away by the > lab results if you truly understood mineralogy. This is definitely not tar, > only somebody with a closed mind and no understanding of chemistry would > make such a statement, go back to school. > > Adam > > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Charles R. Viau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Adam Hupe'" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:14 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Well, It CANNOT be a tekite, tektites are made by large impacts melting > the > > impacted rock. these were found in a telephone pole! My god, every > telephone > > pole I have ever seen is covered in tar or whatever weird melted black > stuff > > they use, sort of like tar on house roofs, which I believe that the Hupes > > also "found" in the debris from my printer-smashing Park Forest. H > tiny > > little melted tektites found on the floor under the smashed shingles and > > tarred roof, more little melted glass like "tektites" found in and round a > > telephone pole at the site of a stupid hoax that got way more attention > than > > it should have. I see a curious pattern forming here. Maybe there were > some > > "bugs" smashed into the tar so we have little "spidy" creatures like the > > Frass meteorite. > >Charles. I have never heard of you, but I assure you that I know > just > > a tad more than you might think, and I assure you that this is a waste of > > scientific time. > > It defies the most simple things that we know about meteorites, thus > making > > it bogus. > > > > Mike Farmer > > - Original Message - > > From: "Charles R. Viau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Adam Hupe'" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Given the reputation of the people examining this stuff, how busy they > > > are, and the amount of time they are willing to spend on this - It's not > > > crap. It is probably more related to a tektite than anything else if one > > > were to summon up a simile , and how did pieces of this wind up embedded > > > in a telephone pole? - I think the Hupe brothers , as well as the PhD's > > > in those labs are doing their job because they believe there is > > > scientific merit in doing so, and no matter what the outcome, they need > > > to know what it is because it passed through the filters that would have > > > tossed 'crap' out 2 weeks ago. Perhaps, if you had some of this stuff > > > you might feel different. > > > > > > Charlyv > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael > > > Farmer > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM > > > To: Adam Hupe; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > Give me a break people, this is retarded. Yep, YE HAA PA saw that there > > > little glass chunks fall out of the sky and they burnded my hands two > > > weeks > > > later! > > > Why waste time on this crap. > > > Mike Farmer > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:26 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > > > No glass manufacturing process would use this kind of sand bec
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hello, all, the ball lightning could be one explanation. In Finland this phenomenon has stuidied, and some scientists says, a lightning ball could in fact be burning flint. Anyway, it´s very difficult to study this phenomenon, but it should; - fly free in the air - move slowly and stay at least several seconds, maximum up to minutes - size from couple of cm:s to couple of meters - can explose After / during ball lightnings has been found at least vaporised metals and carbon. So if the theory about the burning flint happens to be true, in Elma-case this makes sense to me. First the free flight in the air, the explosion when grounded, and the result is these X-files fragments. But as Adam said, it might be worthless to speculate before have some more from the labs. take care, pekka Mark Jackson wrote: Dear List, I personally witnessed ball lightning in the AZ desert only 6 months ago and it was probably the most intense and dramatic event I've ever witnessed. Ball lightning does exist and it can last for several minutes; the one I saw lasted over two full minutes. As a matter of fact, the one I witnessed actually buried itself in the earth so it could not be seen directly but only by the reflections of colored light from the clouds above it. Really REALLY weird stuff whatever it is. Kindest Regards, Mark Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hi Mike, Mike and List, The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It could prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. The jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was created. The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has been reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell. The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was quenched very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might have been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is looking more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are keeping an open mind regarding this material. All the best, Adam and Greg Hupe - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a meteorite > was recovered there. > Mike Farmer > - Original Message - > From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Everyone- > >Is this all said and done with or is the jury still > > out with any maybe's? > > Thanks, > > Mike > > > > __ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hi Tom and List members, I am only responding because a problem seems to be developing here. Mike Farmer claims scientists are wasting their time on this material and that this is a waste of bandwidth on the List. The scientists are the ones who dispatched us to bring this material to them. The University of Washington is studying this material own their own and we are simply assisting by bringing material in. If you look at the archives I did not initiate this "Elma status" chain, I simply responded to a question. You propagated this long string by asking several questions which were posted to the list. Since they were posted to the List I responded publicly. If this means I am wasting bandwidth you are just as guilty by posting questions to the list. If this is what the List members want. I will simply will not post future results obtained in the lab regarding this material, pretty simple, no need for you and Mike to get nasty. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Hello List, Mike wrote; > ", I am simply offended by people wasting > scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to get > a simple classification." > > I have to agree with mike here. Adam and Greg said this was not a meteorite > in the beginning, and I think they would know! But, I for one, have been > chastised big time for posting OT things to the list. There was not a fall > in Elma and the things the people from Elma are claiming to meteorites are > not meteorites and in my opinion have no place on the list. I am interested > in the end result, but until then, I think we should save Art some bandwidth > on this subject. > > Thanks, Tom > Peregrineflier <>< > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > - Original Message - > From: Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:12 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Ok Adam, tell us all, where did you get your science degree? Oh I forgot, > > you have none, so please stop playing scientist. > > I don't have a closed mind, I am simply offended by people wasting > > scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to > get > > a simple classification. > > Mike Farmer > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:40 AM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Hey Mike and Dear List, > > > > > > Ex and current NASA scientist know the difference between tar and glass. > > > Maybe you should have an open mind because you would be blown away by > the > > > lab results if you truly understood mineralogy. This is definitely not > > tar, > > > only somebody with a closed mind and no understanding of chemistry would > > > make such a statement, go back to school. > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Charles R. Viau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Adam Hupe'" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:14 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Well, It CANNOT be a tekite, tektites are made by large impacts > melting > > > the > > > > impacted rock. these were found in a telephone pole! My god, every > > > telephone > > > > pole I have ever seen is covered in tar or whatever weird melted black > > > stuff > > > > they use, sort of like tar on house roofs, which I believe that the > > Hupes > > > > also "found" in the debris from my printer-smashing Park Forest. H > > > tiny > > > > little melted tektites found on the floor under the smashed shingles > and > > > > tarred roof, more little melted glass like "tektites" found in and > round > > a > > > > telephone pole at the site of a stupid hoax that got way more > attention > > > than > > > > it should have
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Give me a break people, this is retarded. Yep, YE HAA PA saw that there little glass chunks fall out of the sky and they burnded my hands two weeks later! Why waste time on this crap. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Hi Tom, > > No glass manufacturing process would use this kind of sand because of it > impurities and why would glass be spread into a shot-put pit where kids > could get cut on the sharp edges? I am not going to speculate too much more > until we get more lab results. Two other labs have weighed in on this > occurrence and it just keeps getting odder. > > All the best, > > Adam > > > - Original Message - > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:17 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Hello All, How about a glass manufacturing bi-product? > > Thanks, Tom > > Peregrineflier <>< > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > > - Original Message ----- > > From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:08 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Hi Tom and List, > > > > > > The problem with this material is that it does not contain any metal. > If > > it > > > was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal, even at > > microprobe > > > levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material coming from an > > > industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard of. If it came > > > from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center. The sand is > also > > > trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like chondrules, like a > > > condensation product, which is extremely odd. It was extremely > difficult > > to > > > make thin-sections of this stuff because of the friability of the > material > > > trapped inside. > > > > > > Will update as we get more results, > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "mafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: "meteor central" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:39 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting bi-product from > a > > > > foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma? > > > > Thanks, Tom > > > > Peregrineflier <>< > > > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > > > > - Original Message ----- > > > > From: mafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Cc: meteor central <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > > > > fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and smoldering > pieces > > of > > > > > "basaltic" glass with sand inside, sounds like some atmospheric > event > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > > From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, Mike and List, > > > > > > > > > > > > The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It > > > could > > > > > > prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific > community. > > > > The > > > > > > jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was > > > > created. > > > > > > The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As > has > > > been > > > > > > reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass > > > > shell. >
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting bi-product from a foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier <>< The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: mafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: meteor central <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and smoldering pieces of > "basaltic" glass with sand inside, sounds like some atmospheric event > > - Original Message - > From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Hi Mike, Mike and List, > > > > The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It could > > prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. The > > jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was created. > > The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has been > > reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell. > > The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever > > created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was > quenched > > very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might have > > been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is looking > > more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are > > keeping an open mind regarding this material. > > > > All the best, > > > > Adam and Greg Hupe > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a > > meteorite > > > was recovered there. > > > Mike Farmer > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Everyone- > > > >Is this all said and done with or is the jury still > > > > out with any maybe's? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > __ > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > __ > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
i'm very new to collecting meteorites and to this list... so, i find it pretty discouraging to have to be subjected to these kinds of ugly exchanges... it's very ironic since other posts have talked about helping others to gain an interest in this field of collecting when these kind of personal assaults would do anything but endear someone... now when a post comes and i see one particular person's email address, i cringe and i'm afraid to open them because they are so often caustic and judgemental and anything but in the spirit of friendship and kindness and mutual interest... no matter what a person's personal opinions are, showing some basic respect should be due. could you please show more consideration to everyone? thank you. jc __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
>If this is what the List members want. I will simply will not post future >results obtained in the lab regarding this material, pretty simple, no need >for you and Mike to get nasty This is NOT what this list member wants. This is supposed to be a free-format forum where people who share the same passion get to share their experiences with peers. I have a major objection to being denied information that I am interested in, just because some people feel it is ok to show such disrespect to someone just because the subject does not gel with their personal view of what is important. Think about that - They only future information you will get is exactly what you want to hear. Isn't that F($%!&$ scientific! Charlyv -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:19 PM To: Tom aka James Knudson Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hi Tom and List members, I am only responding because a problem seems to be developing here. Mike Farmer claims scientists are wasting their time on this material and that this is a waste of bandwidth on the List. The scientists are the ones who dispatched us to bring this material to them. The University of Washington is studying this material own their own and we are simply assisting by bringing material in. If you look at the archives I did not initiate this "Elma status" chain, I simply responded to a question. You propagated this long string by asking several questions which were posted to the list. Since they were posted to the List I responded publicly. If this means I am wasting bandwidth you are just as guilty by posting questions to the list. If this is what the List members want. I will simply will not post future results obtained in the lab regarding this material, pretty simple, no need for you and Mike to get nasty. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Hello List, Mike wrote; > ", I am simply offended by people wasting > scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to get > a simple classification." > > I have to agree with mike here. Adam and Greg said this was not a meteorite > in the beginning, and I think they would know! But, I for one, have been > chastised big time for posting OT things to the list. There was not a fall > in Elma and the things the people from Elma are claiming to meteorites are > not meteorites and in my opinion have no place on the list. I am interested > in the end result, but until then, I think we should save Art some bandwidth > on this subject. > > Thanks, Tom > Peregrineflier <>< > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > - Original Message - > From: Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:12 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Ok Adam, tell us all, where did you get your science degree? Oh I forgot, > > you have none, so please stop playing scientist. > > I don't have a closed mind, I am simply offended by people wasting > > scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to > get > > a simple classification. > > Mike Farmer > > - Original Message - > > From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:40 AM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Hey Mike and Dear List, > > > > > > Ex and current NASA scientist know the difference between tar and glass. > > > Maybe you should have an open mind because you would be blown away by > the > > > lab results if you truly understood mineralogy. This is definitely not > > tar, > > > only somebody with a closed mind and no understanding of chemistry would > > > make such a statement, go back to school. > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Charles R. Viau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Adam Hupe'" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:14 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Adam and everyone, here is my take on this simply put. I am not trying to cause problems with this, just show that people in this community need to stick together to assist the meteoritical society process, study, and publish meteorites in a timely manner. We all get a kick out of all the kooks and wackos trying to scam dealers, collectors, and scientists. We all laugh at them, harass them on ebay etc. Now, Adam, you said when you went there that this was not a meteorite, there was not a sign of a meteorite, and yet you are now submitting samples of strange crap that you know is not a meteorite. The best thing in my opinion would be to walk away from Elma, realize that a scam happened, and forget about it. Instead you are submitting samples, that are not meteorites. This causes in a roundabout way, a serious waste of time for scientists. This can apply to any situation, not just this one. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Hi Tom and List members, > > I am only responding because a problem seems to be developing here. Mike > Farmer claims scientists are wasting their time on this material and that > this is a waste of bandwidth on the List. The scientists are the ones who > dispatched us to bring this material to them. The University of Washington > is studying this material own their own and we are simply assisting by > bringing material in. If you look at the archives I did not initiate this > "Elma status" chain, I simply responded to a question. You propagated this > long string by asking several questions which were posted to the list. > Since they were posted to the List I responded publicly. If this means I am > wasting bandwidth you are just as guilty by posting questions to the list. > > If this is what the List members want. I will simply will not post future > results obtained in the lab regarding this material, pretty simple, no need > for you and Mike to get nasty. > > All the best, > > Adam > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Adam Hupe" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:31 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Hello List, Mike wrote; > > ", I am simply offended by people wasting > > scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to > get > > a simple classification." > > > > I have to agree with mike here. Adam and Greg said this was not a > meteorite > > in the beginning, and I think they would know! But, I for one, have been > > chastised big time for posting OT things to the list. There was not a fall > > in Elma and the things the people from Elma are claiming to meteorites are > > not meteorites and in my opinion have no place on the list. I am > interested > > in the end result, but until then, I think we should save Art some > bandwidth > > on this subject. > > > > Thanks, Tom > > Peregrineflier <>< > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > > - Original Message - > > From: Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:12 AM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Ok Adam, tell us all, where did you get your science degree? Oh I > forgot, > > > you have none, so please stop playing scientist. > > > I don't have a closed mind, I am simply offended by people wasting > > > scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to > > get > > > a simple classification. > > > Mike Farmer > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:40 AM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Hey Mike and Dear List, > > > > > > > > Ex and current NASA scientist know the difference between tar and > glass. > > > > Maybe you should have an open mind because you would be blown away by > > the > > > > lab results if you truly understood mineralogy. This is definitely >
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
>From what I see regarding this subject, no one on this list has said that it is a meteorite. But they are "scientifically" inclined enough to continue with the question. "What is it?" Tests, I assume are being done, and that question will be resolved. Steve Schoner/ams --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, It CANNOT be a tekite, tektites are made by > large impacts melting the > impacted rock. these were found in a telephone pole! > My god, every telephone > pole I have ever seen is covered in tar or whatever > weird melted black stuff > they use, sort of like tar on house roofs, which I > believe that the Hupes > also "found" in the debris from my printer-smashing > Park Forest. H tiny > little melted tektites found on the floor under the > smashed shingles and > tarred roof, more little melted glass like > "tektites" found in and round a > telephone pole at the site of a stupid hoax that got > way more attention than > it should have. I see a curious pattern forming > here. Maybe there were some > "bugs" smashed into the tar so we have little > "spidy" creatures like the > Frass meteorite. >Charles. I have never heard of you, but I > assure you that I know just > a tad more than you might think, and I assure you > that this is a waste of > scientific time. > It defies the most simple things that we know about > meteorites, thus making > it bogus. > > Mike Farmer > - Original Message - > From: "Charles R. Viau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > "'Adam Hupe'" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Given the reputation of the people examining this > stuff, how busy they > > are, and the amount of time they are willing to > spend on this - It's not > > crap. It is probably more related to a tektite > than anything else if one > > were to summon up a simile , and how did pieces of > this wind up embedded > > in a telephone pole? - I think the Hupe brothers , > as well as the PhD's > > in those labs are doing their job because they > believe there is > > scientific merit in doing so, and no matter what > the outcome, they need > > to know what it is because it passed through the > filters that would have > > tossed 'crap' out 2 weeks ago. Perhaps, if you had > some of this stuff > > you might feel different. > > > > Charlyv > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Michael > > Farmer > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM > > To: Adam Hupe; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Give me a break people, this is retarded. Yep, YE > HAA PA saw that there > > little glass chunks fall out of the sky and they > burnded my hands two > > weeks > > later! > > Why waste time on this crap. > > Mike Farmer > > - Original Message - > > From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:26 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > No glass manufacturing process would use this > kind of sand because of > > it > > > impurities and why would glass be spread into a > shot-put pit where > > kids > > > could get cut on the sharp edges? I am not > going to speculate too > > much > > more > > > until we get more lab results. Two other labs > have weighed in on this > > > occurrence and it just keeps getting odder. > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:17 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Hello All, How about a glass manufacturing > bi-product? > > > > Thanks, Tom > > > > Peregrineflier <>< > > > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > > > > - Original Message - > > > > From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hey Mike and Dear List, Ex and current NASA scientist know the difference between tar and glass. Maybe you should have an open mind because you would be blown away by the lab results if you truly understood mineralogy. This is definitely not tar, only somebody with a closed mind and no understanding of chemistry would make such a statement, go back to school. Adam - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Charles R. Viau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Adam Hupe'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Well, It CANNOT be a tekite, tektites are made by large impacts melting the > impacted rock. these were found in a telephone pole! My god, every telephone > pole I have ever seen is covered in tar or whatever weird melted black stuff > they use, sort of like tar on house roofs, which I believe that the Hupes > also "found" in the debris from my printer-smashing Park Forest. H tiny > little melted tektites found on the floor under the smashed shingles and > tarred roof, more little melted glass like "tektites" found in and round a > telephone pole at the site of a stupid hoax that got way more attention than > it should have. I see a curious pattern forming here. Maybe there were some > "bugs" smashed into the tar so we have little "spidy" creatures like the > Frass meteorite. >Charles. I have never heard of you, but I assure you that I know just > a tad more than you might think, and I assure you that this is a waste of > scientific time. > It defies the most simple things that we know about meteorites, thus making > it bogus. > > Mike Farmer > - Original Message - > From: "Charles R. Viau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Adam Hupe'" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Given the reputation of the people examining this stuff, how busy they > > are, and the amount of time they are willing to spend on this - It's not > > crap. It is probably more related to a tektite than anything else if one > > were to summon up a simile , and how did pieces of this wind up embedded > > in a telephone pole? - I think the Hupe brothers , as well as the PhD's > > in those labs are doing their job because they believe there is > > scientific merit in doing so, and no matter what the outcome, they need > > to know what it is because it passed through the filters that would have > > tossed 'crap' out 2 weeks ago. Perhaps, if you had some of this stuff > > you might feel different. > > > > Charlyv > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael > > Farmer > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM > > To: Adam Hupe; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Give me a break people, this is retarded. Yep, YE HAA PA saw that there > > little glass chunks fall out of the sky and they burnded my hands two > > weeks > > later! > > Why waste time on this crap. > > Mike Farmer > > - Original Message - > > From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:26 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > No glass manufacturing process would use this kind of sand because of > > it > > > impurities and why would glass be spread into a shot-put pit where > > kids > > > could get cut on the sharp edges? I am not going to speculate too > > much > > more > > > until we get more lab results. Two other labs have weighed in on this > > > occurrence and it just keeps getting odder. > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:17 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Hello All, How about a glass manufacturing bi-product? > > > > Thanks, Tom > > > > Peregrine
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hello List, Mike wrote; ", I am simply offended by people wasting scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to get a simple classification." I have to agree with mike here. Adam and Greg said this was not a meteorite in the beginning, and I think they would know! But, I for one, have been chastised big time for posting OT things to the list. There was not a fall in Elma and the things the people from Elma are claiming to meteorites are not meteorites and in my opinion have no place on the list. I am interested in the end result, but until then, I think we should save Art some bandwidth on this subject. Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier <>< The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Ok Adam, tell us all, where did you get your science degree? Oh I forgot, > you have none, so please stop playing scientist. > I don't have a closed mind, I am simply offended by people wasting > scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to get > a simple classification. > Mike Farmer > - Original Message - > From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:40 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Hey Mike and Dear List, > > > > Ex and current NASA scientist know the difference between tar and glass. > > Maybe you should have an open mind because you would be blown away by the > > lab results if you truly understood mineralogy. This is definitely not > tar, > > only somebody with a closed mind and no understanding of chemistry would > > make such a statement, go back to school. > > > > Adam > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Charles R. Viau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Adam Hupe'" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:14 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Well, It CANNOT be a tekite, tektites are made by large impacts melting > > the > > > impacted rock. these were found in a telephone pole! My god, every > > telephone > > > pole I have ever seen is covered in tar or whatever weird melted black > > stuff > > > they use, sort of like tar on house roofs, which I believe that the > Hupes > > > also "found" in the debris from my printer-smashing Park Forest. H > > tiny > > > little melted tektites found on the floor under the smashed shingles and > > > tarred roof, more little melted glass like "tektites" found in and round > a > > > telephone pole at the site of a stupid hoax that got way more attention > > than > > > it should have. I see a curious pattern forming here. Maybe there were > > some > > > "bugs" smashed into the tar so we have little "spidy" creatures like the > > > Frass meteorite. > > >Charles. I have never heard of you, but I assure you that I know > > just > > > a tad more than you might think, and I assure you that this is a waste > of > > > scientific time. > > > It defies the most simple things that we know about meteorites, thus > > making > > > it bogus. > > > > > > Mike Farmer > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Charles R. Viau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Adam Hupe'" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM > > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Given the reputation of the people examining this stuff, how busy they > > > > are, and the amount of time they are willing to spend on this - It's > not > > > > crap. It is probably more related to a tektite than anything else if > one > > > > were to summon up a simile , and how did pieces of this wind up > embedded > > > > in a telephone pole? - I think the Hupe brothers , as well as the > PhD's > > > > in those labs are doing their job because they believe there is > > > > scientific merit in doing so, and no matter what
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Humm, I wonder what fulgurites caused by lightning would look like if such struck the area where these were found. Steve Schoner/ams --- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Mike, Mike and List, > > The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so > to speak. It could > prove to be just as or more interesting to the > scientific community. The > jury is still out on exactly what this material is > or how it was created. > The initial lab results created more questions than > answers. As has been > reported this material consist of sand incased in a > basaltic glass shell. > The materials in the glass are not separated into > swirls so what ever > created these objects had a huge amount of energy > and the glass was quenched > very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see > how these might have > been created. We should have more answers by next > week. This is looking > more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. > For now, we are > keeping an open mind regarding this material. > > All the best, > > Adam and Greg Hupe > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite > List" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance > in hell that a > meteorite > > was recovered there. > > Mike Farmer > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Meteorite List" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Everyone- > > >Is this all said and done with or is the jury > still > > > out with any maybe's? > > > Thanks, > > > Mike > > > > > > __ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Given the reputation of the people examining this stuff, how busy they are, and the amount of time they are willing to spend on this - It's not crap. It is probably more related to a tektite than anything else if one were to summon up a simile , and how did pieces of this wind up embedded in a telephone pole? - I think the Hupe brothers , as well as the PhD's in those labs are doing their job because they believe there is scientific merit in doing so, and no matter what the outcome, they need to know what it is because it passed through the filters that would have tossed 'crap' out 2 weeks ago. Perhaps, if you had some of this stuff you might feel different. Charlyv -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Farmer Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM To: Adam Hupe; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Give me a break people, this is retarded. Yep, YE HAA PA saw that there little glass chunks fall out of the sky and they burnded my hands two weeks later! Why waste time on this crap. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Hi Tom, > > No glass manufacturing process would use this kind of sand because of it > impurities and why would glass be spread into a shot-put pit where kids > could get cut on the sharp edges? I am not going to speculate too much more > until we get more lab results. Two other labs have weighed in on this > occurrence and it just keeps getting odder. > > All the best, > > Adam > > > - Original Message - > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:17 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Hello All, How about a glass manufacturing bi-product? > > Thanks, Tom > > Peregrineflier <>< > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > > - Original Message - > > From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:08 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Hi Tom and List, > > > > > > The problem with this material is that it does not contain any metal. > If > > it > > > was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal, even at > > microprobe > > > levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material coming from an > > > industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard of. If it came > > > from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center. The sand is > also > > > trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like chondrules, like a > > > condensation product, which is extremely odd. It was extremely > difficult > > to > > > make thin-sections of this stuff because of the friability of the > material > > > trapped inside. > > > > > > Will update as we get more results, > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "mafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: "meteor central" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:39 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting bi-product from > a > > > > foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma? > > > > Thanks, Tom > > > > Peregrineflier <>< > > > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > > > > - Original Message ----- > > > > From: mafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Cc: meteor central <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > > > > fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and smoldering > pieces > > of > > > > > "basaltic" glass with sand inside, sounds like some atmospheric > event > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > > From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > T
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Ohhh well well. Matteo --- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Mike, Mike and List, > > The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so > to speak. It could > prove to be just as or more interesting to the > scientific community. The > jury is still out on exactly what this material is > or how it was created. > The initial lab results created more questions than > answers. As has been > reported this material consist of sand incased in a > basaltic glass shell. > The materials in the glass are not separated into > swirls so what ever > created these objects had a huge amount of energy > and the glass was quenched > very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see > how these might have > been created. We should have more answers by next > week. This is looking > more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. > For now, we are > keeping an open mind regarding this material. > > All the best, > > Adam and Greg Hupe > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite > List" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance > in hell that a > meteorite > > was recovered there. > > Mike Farmer > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Meteorite List" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Everyone- > > >Is this all said and done with or is the jury > still > > > out with any maybe's? > > > Thanks, > > > Mike > > > > > > __ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Michael, I have heard of you, in fact I have a number of meteorites in my collection that came from you. Never even said it was a tektite, just said it looked like one, more that it does a meteorite. Creosote is tar - no way in the world does this stuff resemble tar or any other stuff you have seen on a roof. Do you honestly think that scientists like this would ever examine a piece of tar? The people that are examining this stuff are the same people responsible for authenticating what we own. I give them the credit for the diligence in providing an answer to what it is, as well as what it is not. The NOT part would be a done deal by now if they did not think otherwise so give them a break and show them the respect they deserve. Charlyv IMCA 4351 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Farmer Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 11:15 PM To: Charles R. Viau; 'Adam Hupe'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Well, It CANNOT be a tekite, tektites are made by large impacts melting the impacted rock. these were found in a telephone pole! My god, every telephone pole I have ever seen is covered in tar or whatever weird melted black stuff they use, sort of like tar on house roofs, which I believe that the Hupes also "found" in the debris from my printer-smashing Park Forest. H tiny little melted tektites found on the floor under the smashed shingles and tarred roof, more little melted glass like "tektites" found in and round a telephone pole at the site of a stupid hoax that got way more attention than it should have. I see a curious pattern forming here. Maybe there were some "bugs" smashed into the tar so we have little "spidy" creatures like the Frass meteorite. Charles. I have never heard of you, but I assure you that I know just a tad more than you might think, and I assure you that this is a waste of scientific time. It defies the most simple things that we know about meteorites, thus making it bogus. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: "Charles R. Viau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Adam Hupe'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Given the reputation of the people examining this stuff, how busy they > are, and the amount of time they are willing to spend on this - It's not > crap. It is probably more related to a tektite than anything else if one > were to summon up a simile , and how did pieces of this wind up embedded > in a telephone pole? - I think the Hupe brothers , as well as the PhD's > in those labs are doing their job because they believe there is > scientific merit in doing so, and no matter what the outcome, they need > to know what it is because it passed through the filters that would have > tossed 'crap' out 2 weeks ago. Perhaps, if you had some of this stuff > you might feel different. > > Charlyv > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael > Farmer > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM > To: Adam Hupe; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > Give me a break people, this is retarded. Yep, YE HAA PA saw that there > little glass chunks fall out of the sky and they burnded my hands two > weeks > later! > Why waste time on this crap. > Mike Farmer > - Original Message - > From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:26 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > No glass manufacturing process would use this kind of sand because of > it > > impurities and why would glass be spread into a shot-put pit where > kids > > could get cut on the sharp edges? I am not going to speculate too > much > more > > until we get more lab results. Two other labs have weighed in on this > > occurrence and it just keeps getting odder. > > > > All the best, > > > > Adam > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:17 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Hello All, How about a glass manufacturing bi-product? > > > Thanks, Tom > > > Peregrineflier <>< > > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > > > - Original Message -
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Well, It CANNOT be a tekite, tektites are made by large impacts melting the impacted rock. these were found in a telephone pole! My god, every telephone pole I have ever seen is covered in tar or whatever weird melted black stuff they use, sort of like tar on house roofs, which I believe that the Hupes also "found" in the debris from my printer-smashing Park Forest. H tiny little melted tektites found on the floor under the smashed shingles and tarred roof, more little melted glass like "tektites" found in and round a telephone pole at the site of a stupid hoax that got way more attention than it should have. I see a curious pattern forming here. Maybe there were some "bugs" smashed into the tar so we have little "spidy" creatures like the Frass meteorite. Charles. I have never heard of you, but I assure you that I know just a tad more than you might think, and I assure you that this is a waste of scientific time. It defies the most simple things that we know about meteorites, thus making it bogus. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: "Charles R. Viau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Michael Farmer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Adam Hupe'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > Given the reputation of the people examining this stuff, how busy they > are, and the amount of time they are willing to spend on this - It's not > crap. It is probably more related to a tektite than anything else if one > were to summon up a simile , and how did pieces of this wind up embedded > in a telephone pole? - I think the Hupe brothers , as well as the PhD's > in those labs are doing their job because they believe there is > scientific merit in doing so, and no matter what the outcome, they need > to know what it is because it passed through the filters that would have > tossed 'crap' out 2 weeks ago. Perhaps, if you had some of this stuff > you might feel different. > > Charlyv > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael > Farmer > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM > To: Adam Hupe; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > Give me a break people, this is retarded. Yep, YE HAA PA saw that there > little glass chunks fall out of the sky and they burnded my hands two > weeks > later! > Why waste time on this crap. > Mike Farmer > - Original Message - > From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:26 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > No glass manufacturing process would use this kind of sand because of > it > > impurities and why would glass be spread into a shot-put pit where > kids > > could get cut on the sharp edges? I am not going to speculate too > much > more > > until we get more lab results. Two other labs have weighed in on this > > occurrence and it just keeps getting odder. > > > > All the best, > > > > Adam > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:17 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > Hello All, How about a glass manufacturing bi-product? > > > Thanks, Tom > > > Peregrineflier <>< > > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 > > > - Original Message - > > > From: Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:08 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? > > > > > > > > > > Hi Tom and List, > > > > > > > > The problem with this material is that it does not contain any > metal. > > If > > > it > > > > was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal, even at > > > microprobe > > > > levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material coming > from an > > > > industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard of. If > it > came > > > > from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center. The sand > is > > also > > > > trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like chondrules, like > a > > > > condensation product, which is extremely odd