[meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo
Hi everyone, I am home a little early from Tokyo, and am preparing now for the Ensishiem and St Marie aux Mines shows in France. Anyone who wants anything, let me know now so that I can prepare it, ship it, or bring it to France. I will be traveling on from there back to Asia, and will not be bringing much at all to Europe. So please make your requests now. On to other business: Just a quick note about the Tokyo show, and just to squash any rumors before they start, something occurred there that needs to be addressed now, not when people start spreading rumors. Hans Koser and I went to Tokyo, and managed to acquire a table at the show, directly from the show owner, when another dealers material was stuck in customs. That table unfortunately was next to Marvin and Kitty Kilgore. We agreed from the start not to put meteorite specimens on the table (as this would compete too much with Marvin). Hans and I both had mineral specimens, and meteorite jewelry, spheres, and eggs made of meteorites. Within an hour of setting up the table (the show had already started) there was a meeting with Marvin Kilgore and Bud Eisler. The complained to the show owner several times, then Kitty Kilgore came in and saw us there and she got the show owner, then they forced us to be kicked out of the show. There was of course, an argument and although nothing serious, there was no happiness between Hans, myself nor Marvin. He tried to explain that it was not personal, only business. Of course, any of you can imagine how much it costs to go to Tokyo, shipping material, then being thrown out of the show barely two hours after it opened. This was not a nice thing to do, and we had only jewelry and manufactured items on our table, Kilgore had none of that, only large specimens for sale. Eisler did have lots of meteorite jewelry, but he was nowhere near us. This is a pretty bad situation, and no need to make it worse with rumors. It was several dealers being jealous and not wanting competition at a show, and that was that. Since I have never attended that show, the show owner bowed to the complaints of Bruno and Carine, Marvin, and Eisler and kicked us out. Bruno complained to me the moment he saw me in Tokyo. Any of you who know Hans Koser knows that he is the nicest guy in the world, who works on very little money, and who this hurt extremely badly. He did not deserve that sort of treatment, nor did I as I hardly know Bud Eisler (even though he lives in Tucson) and have always considered Marvin a close friend. Needless to say, that is over with this action. There are two sides to every story, and Marvin tried to tell me that he was kicked out of there before and it was then only fair that I got kicked out ( I don't buy that argument at all), and that there were too many meteorite dealers there (again, so what) and those things made it ok to kick two friends to the curb and force them to lose $4000 to $6000 each in expenses! There were many witnesses to what happened, and if you don't believe me, ask Hans. I am a firm believer in what goes around, comes around. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo
Hi Mike, I confess, I don't understand. Why, exactly, were you kicked out of the show? -Water Branch - - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 2:29 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo Hi everyone, I am home a little early from Tokyo, and am preparing now for the Ensishiem and St Marie aux Mines shows in France. Anyone who wants anything, let me know now so that I can prepare it, ship it, or bring it to France. I will be traveling on from there back to Asia, and will not be bringing much at all to Europe. So please make your requests now. On to other business: Just a quick note about the Tokyo show, and just to squash any rumors before they start, something occurred there that needs to be addressed now, not when people start spreading rumors. Hans Koser and I went to Tokyo, and managed to acquire a table at the show, directly from the show owner, when another dealers material was stuck in customs. That table unfortunately was next to Marvin and Kitty Kilgore. We agreed from the start not to put meteorite specimens on the table (as this would compete too much with Marvin). Hans and I both had mineral specimens, and meteorite jewelry, spheres, and eggs made of meteorites. Within an hour of setting up the table (the show had already started) there was a meeting with Marvin Kilgore and Bud Eisler. The complained to the show owner several times, then Kitty Kilgore came in and saw us there and she got the show owner, then they forced us to be kicked out of the show. There was of course, an argument and although nothing serious, there was no happiness between Hans, myself nor Marvin. He tried to explain that it was not personal, only business. Of course, any of you can imagine how much it costs to go to Tokyo, shipping material, then being thrown out of the show barely two hours after it opened. This was not a nice thing to do, and we had only jewelry and manufactured items on our table, Kilgore had none of that, only large specimens for sale. Eisler did have lots of meteorite jewelry, but he was nowhere near us. This is a pretty bad situation, and no need to make it worse with rumors. It was several dealers being jealous and not wanting competition at a show, and that was that. Since I have never attended that show, the show owner bowed to the complaints of Bruno and Carine, Marvin, and Eisler and kicked us out. Bruno complained to me the moment he saw me in Tokyo. Any of you who know Hans Koser knows that he is the nicest guy in the world, who works on very little money, and who this hurt extremely badly. He did not deserve that sort of treatment, nor did I as I hardly know Bud Eisler (even though he lives in Tucson) and have always considered Marvin a close friend. Needless to say, that is over with this action. There are two sides to every story, and Marvin tried to tell me that he was kicked out of there before and it was then only fair that I got kicked out ( I don't buy that argument at all), and that there were too many meteorite dealers there (again, so what) and those things made it ok to kick two friends to the curb and force them to lose $4000 to $6000 each in expenses! There were many witnesses to what happened, and if you don't believe me, ask Hans. I am a firm believer in what goes around, comes around. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo
Because a group of other dealers all complained that there were too many meteorite dealers. Since we were not confirmed in advance, they sold us a table, and then took it away. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Walter Branch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo Hi Mike, I confess, I don't understand. Why, exactly, were you kicked out of the show? -Water Branch - - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 2:29 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo Hi everyone, I am home a little early from Tokyo, and am preparing now for the Ensishiem and St Marie aux Mines shows in France. Anyone who wants anything, let me know now so that I can prepare it, ship it, or bring it to France. I will be traveling on from there back to Asia, and will not be bringing much at all to Europe. So please make your requests now. On to other business: Just a quick note about the Tokyo show, and just to squash any rumors before they start, something occurred there that needs to be addressed now, not when people start spreading rumors. Hans Koser and I went to Tokyo, and managed to acquire a table at the show, directly from the show owner, when another dealers material was stuck in customs. That table unfortunately was next to Marvin and Kitty Kilgore. We agreed from the start not to put meteorite specimens on the table (as this would compete too much with Marvin). Hans and I both had mineral specimens, and meteorite jewelry, spheres, and eggs made of meteorites. Within an hour of setting up the table (the show had already started) there was a meeting with Marvin Kilgore and Bud Eisler. The complained to the show owner several times, then Kitty Kilgore came in and saw us there and she got the show owner, then they forced us to be kicked out of the show. There was of course, an argument and although nothing serious, there was no happiness between Hans, myself nor Marvin. He tried to explain that it was not personal, only business. Of course, any of you can imagine how much it costs to go to Tokyo, shipping material, then being thrown out of the show barely two hours after it opened. This was not a nice thing to do, and we had only jewelry and manufactured items on our table, Kilgore had none of that, only large specimens for sale. Eisler did have lots of meteorite jewelry, but he was nowhere near us. This is a pretty bad situation, and no need to make it worse with rumors. It was several dealers being jealous and not wanting competition at a show, and that was that. Since I have never attended that show, the show owner bowed to the complaints of Bruno and Carine, Marvin, and Eisler and kicked us out. Bruno complained to me the moment he saw me in Tokyo. Any of you who know Hans Koser knows that he is the nicest guy in the world, who works on very little money, and who this hurt extremely badly. He did not deserve that sort of treatment, nor did I as I hardly know Bud Eisler (even though he lives in Tucson) and have always considered Marvin a close friend. Needless to say, that is over with this action. There are two sides to every story, and Marvin tried to tell me that he was kicked out of there before and it was then only fair that I got kicked out ( I don't buy that argument at all), and that there were too many meteorite dealers there (again, so what) and those things made it ok to kick two friends to the curb and force them to lose $4000 to $6000 each in expenses! There were many witnesses to what happened, and if you don't believe me, ask Hans. I am a firm believer in what goes around, comes around. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo
Because a group of other dealers all complained that there were too many meteorite dealers. Since we were not confirmed in advance, they sold us a table, and then took it away. Mike Farmer heh this is one of the most stupid situations I ever hear !!! shame -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo
Hello Michael I am living in near Tokyo, so I have often been to the Tokyo Mineral Fair (TMF). Indeed, it is rumored that it seems very closed show for non-regular dealers like you. Additionally saying is that Japanese people are in depression and in deflation cycle under silly economic policy, so the meteorite dealers cannot gained so much money there now I guess. I know other rumors concerning TMF, and I don't like TMF. You had better participate the Tokyo Mineral Show (TMS) in December rather than this Tokyo Mineral Fair. Do you remember that I purchased a nice Allende specimen including DI from you in TMS last year? This is one of my favorite specimens. Thanks. K. Ohtsuka - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 3:29 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo Hi everyone, I am home a little early from Tokyo, and am preparing now for the Ensishiem and St Marie aux Mines shows in France. Anyone who wants anything, let me know now so that I can prepare it, ship it, or bring it to France. I will be traveling on from there back to Asia, and will not be bringing much at all to Europe. So please make your requests now. On to other business: Just a quick note about the Tokyo show, and just to squash any rumors before they start, something occurred there that needs to be addressed now, not when people start spreading rumors. Hans Koser and I went to Tokyo, and managed to acquire a table at the show, directly from the show owner, when another dealers material was stuck in customs. That table unfortunately was next to Marvin and Kitty Kilgore. We agreed from the start not to put meteorite specimens on the table (as this would compete too much with Marvin). Hans and I both had mineral specimens, and meteorite jewelry, spheres, and eggs made of meteorites. Within an hour of setting up the table (the show had already started) there was a meeting with Marvin Kilgore and Bud Eisler. The complained to the show owner several times, then Kitty Kilgore came in and saw us there and she got the show owner, then they forced us to be kicked out of the show. There was of course, an argument and although nothing serious, there was no happiness between Hans, myself nor Marvin. He tried to explain that it was not personal, only business. Of course, any of you can imagine how much it costs to go to Tokyo, shipping material, then being thrown out of the show barely two hours after it opened. This was not a nice thing to do, and we had only jewelry and manufactured items on our table, Kilgore had none of that, only large specimens for sale. Eisler did have lots of meteorite jewelry, but he was nowhere near us. This is a pretty bad situation, and no need to make it worse with rumors. It was several dealers being jealous and not wanting competition at a show, and that was that. Since I have never attended that show, the show owner bowed to the complaints of Bruno and Carine, Marvin, and Eisler and kicked us out. Bruno complained to me the moment he saw me in Tokyo. Any of you who know Hans Koser knows that he is the nicest guy in the world, who works on very little money, and who this hurt extremely badly. He did not deserve that sort of treatment, nor did I as I hardly know Bud Eisler (even though he lives in Tucson) and have always considered Marvin a close friend. Needless to say, that is over with this action. There are two sides to every story, and Marvin tried to tell me that he was kicked out of there before and it was then only fair that I got kicked out ( I don't buy that argument at all), and that there were too many meteorite dealers there (again, so what) and those things made it ok to kick two friends to the curb and force them to lose $4000 to $6000 each in expenses! There were many witnesses to what happened, and if you don't believe me, ask Hans. I am a firm believer in what goes around, comes around. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo
I guess there is no such thing as free enterprise in Japan at least not at that show. Best wishes, Michael - oh, and Mike - thanks for making your post a sane one with no name calling and the like. I am sure that must have taken effort given the circumstances. Besides, people's actions speak far louder than words. Your gentlemanly behavior is appreciated and stands in stark contrast to your circumstances. on 6/6/05 11:29 PM, Michael Farmer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I am home a little early from Tokyo, and am preparing now for the Ensishiem and St Marie aux Mines shows in France. Anyone who wants anything, let me know now so that I can prepare it, ship it, or bring it to France. I will be traveling on from there back to Asia, and will not be bringing much at all to Europe. So please make your requests now. On to other business: Just a quick note about the Tokyo show, and just to squash any rumors before they start, something occurred there that needs to be addressed now, not when people start spreading rumors. Hans Koser and I went to Tokyo, and managed to acquire a table at the show, directly from the show owner, when another dealers material was stuck in customs. That table unfortunately was next to Marvin and Kitty Kilgore. We agreed from the start not to put meteorite specimens on the table (as this would compete too much with Marvin). Hans and I both had mineral specimens, and meteorite jewelry, spheres, and eggs made of meteorites. Within an hour of setting up the table (the show had already started) there was a meeting with Marvin Kilgore and Bud Eisler. The complained to the show owner several times, then Kitty Kilgore came in and saw us there and she got the show owner, then they forced us to be kicked out of the show. There was of course, an argument and although nothing serious, there was no happiness between Hans, myself nor Marvin. He tried to explain that it was not personal, only business. Of course, any of you can imagine how much it costs to go to Tokyo, shipping material, then being thrown out of the show barely two hours after it opened. This was not a nice thing to do, and we had only jewelry and manufactured items on our table, Kilgore had none of that, only large specimens for sale. Eisler did have lots of meteorite jewelry, but he was nowhere near us. This is a pretty bad situation, and no need to make it worse with rumors. It was several dealers being jealous and not wanting competition at a show, and that was that. Since I have never attended that show, the show owner bowed to the complaints of Bruno and Carine, Marvin, and Eisler and kicked us out. Bruno complained to me the moment he saw me in Tokyo. Any of you who know Hans Koser knows that he is the nicest guy in the world, who works on very little money, and who this hurt extremely badly. He did not deserve that sort of treatment, nor did I as I hardly know Bud Eisler (even though he lives in Tucson) and have always considered Marvin a close friend. Needless to say, that is over with this action. There are two sides to every story, and Marvin tried to tell me that he was kicked out of there before and it was then only fair that I got kicked out ( I don't buy that argument at all), and that there were too many meteorite dealers there (again, so what) and those things made it ok to kick two friends to the curb and force them to lose $4000 to $6000 each in expenses! There were many witnesses to what happened, and if you don't believe me, ask Hans. I am a firm believer in what goes around, comes around. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo
Hi, As a former vendor at many specialized computer shows in the past, I can testify that trade shows and specialized sales shows can be very strange environments indeed. Whether the show sponsor or owner is a commercial entrepreneur or an organization or club, the pressures and stress on them are huge and at their maximum at the actual opening and early hours of a show. Show organizers making bad decisions on the fly is commonplace, not to mention sometimes verging into completely crazy territory. My best example of that is one organizer of a show that went very poorly who quit his job in the middle of the show, walked out while the show was still open, left the show venue not torn down at the end, and moved to another city two days later. As for other vendors, I've seen behaviors that range from friendly convivial competitors with whom you end up going out for dinner, drinks and shop talk afterwards all the way to grim competitors at the very next table that never say a word to you for two 12-hour days in a row, even if you greet them in a friendly fashion, and refuse to even glance at you, as if they could magically cancel out your existence. All part of life's variety, I guess. You have to ride the stress like you were surfing, Mike, and not let the wave break over you. Sail on! Sterling K. Webb -- Michael L Blood wrote: I guess there is no such thing as free enterprise in Japan at least not at that show. Best wishes, Michael - oh, and Mike - thanks for making your post a sane one with no name calling and the like. I am sure that must have taken effort given the circumstances. Besides, people's actions speak far louder than words. Your gentlemanly behavior is appreciated and stands in stark contrast to your circumstances. on 6/6/05 11:29 PM, Michael Farmer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I am home a little early from Tokyo, and am preparing now for the Ensishiem and St Marie aux Mines shows in France. Anyone who wants anything, let me know now so that I can prepare it, ship it, or bring it to France. I will be traveling on from there back to Asia, and will not be bringing much at all to Europe. So please make your requests now. On to other business: Just a quick note about the Tokyo show, and just to squash any rumors before they start, something occurred there that needs to be addressed now, not when people start spreading rumors. Hans Koser and I went to Tokyo, and managed to acquire a table at the show, directly from the show owner, when another dealers material was stuck in customs. That table unfortunately was next to Marvin and Kitty Kilgore. We agreed from the start not to put meteorite specimens on the table (as this would compete too much with Marvin). Hans and I both had mineral specimens, and meteorite jewelry, spheres, and eggs made of meteorites. Within an hour of setting up the table (the show had already started) there was a meeting with Marvin Kilgore and Bud Eisler. The complained to the show owner several times, then Kitty Kilgore came in and saw us there and she got the show owner, then they forced us to be kicked out of the show. There was of course, an argument and although nothing serious, there was no happiness between Hans, myself nor Marvin. He tried to explain that it was not personal, only business. Of course, any of you can imagine how much it costs to go to Tokyo, shipping material, then being thrown out of the show barely two hours after it opened. This was not a nice thing to do, and we had only jewelry and manufactured items on our table, Kilgore had none of that, only large specimens for sale. Eisler did have lots of meteorite jewelry, but he was nowhere near us. This is a pretty bad situation, and no need to make it worse with rumors. It was several dealers being jealous and not wanting competition at a show, and that was that. Since I have never attended that show, the show owner bowed to the complaints of Bruno and Carine, Marvin, and Eisler and kicked us out. Bruno complained to me the moment he saw me in Tokyo. Any of you who know Hans Koser knows that he is the nicest guy in the world, who works on very little money, and who this hurt extremely badly. He did not deserve that sort of treatment, nor did I as I hardly know Bud Eisler (even though he lives in Tucson) and have always considered Marvin a close friend. Needless to say, that is over with this action. There are two sides to every story, and Marvin tried to tell me that he was kicked out of there before and it was then only fair that I got kicked out ( I don't buy that argument at all), and that there were too many meteorite dealers there (again, so what) and those things made it ok to kick two friends to the curb and force them to lose $4000 to $6000 each in expenses! There were
Re: [meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo
Hi Doug, It certainly looks like a clear cut example of relating to other dealers as competition instead of colleagues. It has been well known in the gas business and in the shoe business, and many other businesses, that if another dealer opens right next to you or across from you at an intersection business actually INCREASES. Even more so, if a third dealer comes in. The theory is that buyers then think of that area as the place to get gas or shoes - or meteorites. However, some dealers still relate to other dealers as competition, and some, obviously, then go about doing whatever it takes - regardless of the cost to the other dealer, to eliminate them. I believe it is referred to as territorial. The irony is it doesn't really benefit the one(s) being territorial. -- As for the fine fellow from So. America at the Tucson Auction - I, too was very disappointed with the situation. I had run into him the day before and he told me he had A Campo (a huge one) he wanted to put in the auction. I told him he was most welcome and stressed strongly that the earlier he got it there, the better, as people would have time to look at it and consider what they were willing to pay. I said 5:30 or 6 would be best, but definitely no later than 7PM. I do know he spoke very little English and I speak no Spanish, but from what he said, I was under the impression we were clear on all this, as my wife is fluent in both and did a bit of translating where necessary. Unfortunately, instead of one large Campo before 7PM, he showed up with a dozen or so Campos about 7:23 PM - just a few minutes before bidding was to begin. Now, to understand the process overall, here is how it was set up: - People were invited to put specimens in the auction four months in advance. - Items were accepted for the catalog up to about a week before the auction - Announcements were made about a week before the auction that any items other than what were in the catalog already would have to be submitted for approval well in advance of the auction and that if people waited until the last day, they would have to be well in advance of 7 PM and even then, I would be severely limiting the number of items in order to keep the length of the auction workable for most buyers and sellers (it starts getting long after about 120 items - though individual super items will always be accepted if they have a low or no minimum, as any and everyone would prefer such items were available - and a single item is minimal paperwork prior to beginning the auction. Paper work is essential to sane handling of the items and money and NOTHING can be done without the paperwork. It just isn't an option). This is the one area that has drawn the most complaints about the auction over the years - going too long. - I had turned away several people who, after 7 PM had attempted to put items in the auction. So, when the very nice gentleman from So. America showed up with less than ten minutes to go before the auction and had dozens instead of one item and there literally was not enough time to do the paperwork even if I were willing to make an exception (which you can be sure would have been strongly resented by everyone I had turned down!) I could not have mechanically made it happen. I felt very badly, but I had been very clear the night before that yes, there was always room for ONE more specimen - especially if it were huge as he described and no minimum (or very low minimum - I can't remember which) as he described and he showed up before 7. but that is not when he showed up and not what he showed up with. Too bad - for him, for me and for all the bidders. I would have gladly taken all of the specimens he brought if he had showed up before 7, say - or I would even have taken the 130Kg one he described - even at 4 minutes before auction time. but there was no way I could work with what he brought when he brought it. The result was a loss for everyone concerned. So, now you have the rest of the story Paul Harvey.er, Michael on 6/7/05 11:52 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the style of Commodore Matthew Perry, Cap'n Blood wrote the day before the Tokyo news: that I have heard voice disdain for people making a profit in this business. Michael, everyone deserves honest pay for honest work. Lately I have been agreeing with you more than anything else and many of the points you make seem very reasonable. Please let's not burden collectors with the collective blame of dealer's problems after hearing this from globetrotting Farmer. Separately, I hope it is on topic to ask what happened at the last People's Auction with the South American guy who was kicked out after he said he was authorized his display there and was practically set up, which was similar to the prior year? It was my pleasure to help him break our backs with his heavy
Re: [meteorite-list] I am home from Tokyo
Hola Michael, I somewhat reticently buy your theoretical musings on free-market vs. monopoly, though the obvious problem here is everyone runs their own business however they please, whether on the fly or after careful, informed deliberation. So if you would agree with me that dealers frequently cause themselves more problems that collectors who pony up purchasing power, I won't feel the need to peep on this topic. As for the Paul Harvey report, it is nice to know that things aren't always what they appear to be. After every trip I make there are a few images that get scalded into memory. Watching the blood trickling down that nice gentleman's Campo-pressed, tramautized fingers with sweat careening across his brow, as he exerted himself with the pushdolly and crates difficultly containing his big investment and illusions, inexplicably not even leaving one of the meteorite in the Hallthen, respectfully, inobstrusively as possible, slipping it all out the back entrance as he conquered the discomfort in the injured hand, is one such image I'll just have from Tucson '05. That said, I fully support your decision based on the complete understanding of the rest of the story. I personally would have made one exception for one specimen at 7:30 PM, as a consolation and taken the heat from the other's crying foul. It was a Herculean effort for someone who really was completely lost in Tucson for the first time a good distance from the show hotels and with a half ton of irons on his back. Of course making an illegal policy exception is easier said than done while the vultures (me included) were descending upon the great offerings like a mob of locusts...and the contributing dealers meeting the rules nervously fixed their calculating gazes upon your shoulders in anticipation of the legendary event they help you bring to life, as they load you with Atlas's labor in the heat of that instant when the gavel is raised at starting time. Saludos, Doug Michael B. responded: Hi Doug, It certainly looks like a clear cut example of relating to other dealers as competition instead of colleagues. It has been well known in the gas business and in the shoe business, and many other businesses, that if another dealer opens right next to you or across from you at an intersection business actually INCREASES. Even more so, if a third dealer comes in. The theory is that buyers then think of that area as the place to get gas or shoes - or meteorites. However, some dealers still relate to other dealers as competition, and some, obviously, then go about doing whatever it takes - regardless of the cost to the other dealer, to eliminate them. I believe it is referred to as territorial. The irony is it doesn't really benefit the one(s) being territorial. -- As for the fine fellow from So. America at the Tucson Auction - I, too was very disappointed with the situation. I had run into him the day before and he told me he had A Campo (a huge one) he wanted to put in the auction. I told him he was most welcome and stressed strongly that the earlier he got it there, the better, as people would have time to look at it and consider what they were willing to pay. I said 5:30 or 6 would be best, but definitely no later than 7PM. I do know he spoke very little English and I speak no Spanish, but from what he said, I was under the impression we were clear on all this, as my wife is fluent in both and did a bit of translating where necessary. Unfortunately, instead of one large Campo before 7PM, he showed up with a dozen or so Campos about 7:23 PM - just a few minutes before bidding was to begin. Now, to understand the process overall, here is how it was set up: - People were invited to put specimens in the auction four months in advance. - Items were accepted for the catalog up to about a week before the auction - Announcements were made about a week before the auction that any items other than what were in the catalog already would have to be submitted for approval well in advance of the auction and that if people waited until the last day, they would have to be well in advance of 7 PM and even then, I would be severely limiting the number of items in order to keep the length of the auction workable for most buyers and sellers (it starts getting long after about 120 items - though individual super items will always be accepted if they have a low or no minimum, as any and everyone would prefer such items were available - and a single item is minimal paperwork prior to beginning the auction. Paper work is essential to sane handling of the items and money and NOTHING can be done without the paperwork. It just isn't an option). This is the one area that has drawn the most complaints about the auction over the years - going too long. - I had turned away several people who, after 7 PM had attempted to put items in the auction. So, when
