Re: [meteorite-list] Iridium (+ Osmium ? + Technetium ?) measuring and testing
Thanks Darren and Elton It just shows how naive I am about metal detection ! I never used one... But I am surprised that my post didn't get more response, as well as the ones from Darren that I mentioned in my first post: 1- Possible Ohio crater in Apr. 2005: not one response to it ! Another Mecca or alike ? 2- The wonderful wizards of Osmium (Apr 2008): few answers, but nothing about the unique extraterrestrial signature of Osmium compared to Iridium (end of that post) The search on the archives yielded only 279 hits for Iridium, most of them about Ir flares or the Iridium satellite network. Is this list maybe not the right place for such discussion ? and if not, is there another list discussing such aspects ? Thanks A bientot Michael B, France - Original Message - From: Mr EMan mstrema...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; cyna...@charter.net Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iridium (+ Osmium ? + Technetium ?) measuringand testing Hello Darren The original post never made it to my mail box. To the original posters questions about metal detectors: One of the points to be made is that a metal detector only detects free metal not elements. It is a field test and searching for specific elements is a lab test' As they say on the American TV Game Show-- Family Feud --gudanzer! my I say--gudlinks. Elton --- On Sun, 3/15/09, Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net wrote: A- measuring on the field/ meteorite finding/ first testing: I read often that finders/hunters use magnets. What about a metal detector measuring Iridium ? or is Iridium detection too close to other elements, or too small in content to be singled out ? and what about Osmium ? or Technetium ? B- testing How is Iridium (or Osmium, or Technetium) analysed and tested ? Is there any non-invasive way to test one or more of them, to keep the meteorite as is ? I was sitting here trying my best to remember the name of a type of measurement used to find very small amounts of atoms in materials (as is often the case) it wasn't coming to me. Fortunately I remembered it being described in a book by Walter Alverez called T. rex and the Crater of Doom,searched down my copy and was reminded that it is neutron activation analysis. Good book on the detective work behind the discovery of the iridium (and other rare element) concentrations at the K/T boundary. You should try to get your hands on a copy. You can preview big chunks of it on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=kkHhl67ixwECprintsec=frontcoverdq=rex+and+the+crater+of+doom#PPA66,M1 Use the right-hand search window to search for neutron activation analysis in the book. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_activation_analysis As for technetium, I wouldn't hold my breath about finding much of it. Very short half life, both in human terms for some isotopes (hours to days) and in cosmic terms (at most a few million years, a blink of the eye in the age of a meteorite). The amount (from some googling) produced naturally by uranium decay and neutron absorbtion in molybdenum seems to be vanishingly small. Doesn't look to be much to be a mesurable amount to picked up from the solar wind (though this article is pretty old) http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload/upload/insa/INSA_1/20005aca_407.pdf Here's an article touching on the decay products of technetium in meteorites: http://wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/jnrs/paper/JN63/jn6325.pdf and another: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2004/pdf/1877.pdf __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iridium (+ Osmium ? + Technetium ?) measuring and testing
How about hand held XRF (EX-RAY FLORESCENCE) www.niton.com Bill __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iridium (+ Osmium ? + Technetium ?) measuring and testing
depends on machine and operator I suppose. These are quite expensive tools, and I just discovered them a few days ago. They are used in mineral prospecting, and will do elemental composition in ppm I think. Bill Hall __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iridium (+ Osmium ? + Technetium ?) measuring and testing
Thanks Darren Good article. Although I will share later tonight a serious scientific not much known study about water dowsing. Michael B, France - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:48 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iridium (+ Osmium ? + Technetium ?) measuringand testing On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:55:35 +0100, you wrote: It just shows how naive I am about metal detection ! I never used one... I remember as a kid seeing ads in the back of magazines for this thing that you drop a sample of anything into, and then it points out the location of more of it-- be it gold, silver, platinum, truffles, or the One True Elvis. It would be great to have one of those, drop a meteorite sample in it, and find all the small meteorites that are doubtless in the ground (in various states of decay) not too far from any of us. Unfortunately, those devices are utterly fictional. http://vood00.wordpress.com/2009/01/20/dowsing-stick-in-a-box/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iridium (+ Osmium ? + Technetium ?) measuring and testing
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:40:52 +0100, you wrote: Thanks Darren Good article. Although I will share later tonight a serious scientific not much known study about water dowsing. Is it this? http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/2009/02/24/debunking-dowsing/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iridium (+ Osmium ? + Technetium ?) measuring and testing
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:40:52 +0100, you wrote: Thanks Darren Good article. Although I will share later tonight a serious scientific not much known study about water dowsing. Or this? http://www.csicop.org/si/9901/dowsing.html __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iridium (+ Osmium ? + Technetium ?) measuring and testing
Hello Darren The original post never made it to my mail box. To the original posters questions about metal detectors: One of the points to be made is that a metal detector only detects free metal not elements. It is a field test and searching for specific elements is a lab test' As they say on the American TV Game Show-- Family Feud --gudanzer! my I say--gudlinks. Elton --- On Sun, 3/15/09, Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net wrote: A- measuring on the field/ meteorite finding/ first testing: I read often that finders/hunters use magnets. What about a metal detector measuring Iridium ? or is Iridium detection too close to other elements, or too small in content to be singled out ? and what about Osmium ? or Technetium ? B- testing How is Iridium (or Osmium, or Technetium) analysed and tested ? Is there any non-invasive way to test one or more of them, to keep the meteorite as is ? I was sitting here trying my best to remember the name of a type of measurement used to find very small amounts of atoms in materials (as is often the case) it wasn't coming to me. Fortunately I remembered it being described in a book by Walter Alverez called T. rex and the Crater of Doom,searched down my copy and was reminded that it is neutron activation analysis. Good book on the detective work behind the discovery of the iridium (and other rare element) concentrations at the K/T boundary. You should try to get your hands on a copy. You can preview big chunks of it on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=kkHhl67ixwECprintsec=frontcoverdq=rex+and+the+crater+of+doom#PPA66,M1 Use the right-hand search window to search for neutron activation analysis in the book. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_activation_analysis As for technetium, I wouldn't hold my breath about finding much of it. Very short half life, both in human terms for some isotopes (hours to days) and in cosmic terms (at most a few million years, a blink of the eye in the age of a meteorite). The amount (from some googling) produced naturally by uranium decay and neutron absorbtion in molybdenum seems to be vanishingly small. Doesn't look to be much to be a mesurable amount to picked up from the solar wind (though this article is pretty old) http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload/upload/insa/INSA_1/20005aca_407.pdf Here's an article touching on the decay products of technetium in meteorites: http://wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/jnrs/paper/JN63/jn6325.pdf and another: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2004/pdf/1877.pdf __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iridium (+ Osmium ? + Technetium ?) measuring and testing
Hello List and Darren (re: 2 articles you posted in the past on the list) Sorry, this will be a rather long post ! But please, I have newby questions. I hope for a discussion even if West and now the Denmark finds attract most of the posts. AS: I know... I haven't presented myself yet. Briefly, I was born in Strasbourg, France, May 1961. Engineer in Agronomy, I spent most of my life overseas. I returned recently to France after several years in USA (NY + Long Island) Environmental consultant for many years, mainly for soil and groundwater pollution data management, mapping and 3D visualization, I plan now to open a farm, in France or elsewhere. My interest in meteorites is very new on the serious side, and being a Taurus ! I spent a lot of time the last 3 weeks researching, getting informed etc... not to be too naive when posting. So, I read a lot First is the beauty of most of the meteorite: shapes and differentiations. But also, what makes meteorites different from Earth rocks/materials. I am very happy to have joined your community, having exchanged emails with some of the members on the list and hoping to meet most of you sooner or later like in Ensisheim this next June, and enjoying the West discovery and hunt etc... Now, Iridium: (or Osmium, or any other main element for measuring and testing meteorites) Searching the archives of the List, I got 279 hits for Ir, BUT mainly about Ir flares, the Iridium satellite network and Ir occuring in craters. I went thru about 1/2 of them. You know Taurus/Bulls: stuborn, hard working, difficult to stop when they start...! :) Darren, you had 2 posts: 1- Possible Ohio crater in Apr. 2005: not one response to it ! Another Mecca or alike ? 2- The wonderful wizards of Osmium (Apr 2008): few answers, but nothing about the unique extraterrestrial signature of Osmium compared to Iridium (end of the post) What I know so far: - Iridium content in the Earth's crust is 0.001 ppm (or 1 ppb). Much more in the core. - In meteorites it is 0.5 ppm or much more. The Willamette at the AMNH in NYC has 4.7 ppm Iridium. = 500 or thousands time more. A- measuring on the field/ meteorite finding/ first testing: I read often that finders/hunters use magnets. What about a metal detector measuring Iridium ? or is Iridium detection too close to other elements, or too small in content to be singled out ? and what about Osmium ? or Technetium ? B- testing How is Iridium (or Osmium, or Technetium) analysed and tested ? Is there any non-invasive way to test one or more of them, to keep the meteorite as is ? It is 3 am for me, editing this post to be as concise as possible. Hoping for some answers... Have a great day Michael B, France __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Iridium (+ Osmium ? + Technetium ?) measuring and testing
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 03:25:05 +0100, you wrote: A- measuring on the field/ meteorite finding/ first testing: I read often that finders/hunters use magnets. What about a metal detector measuring Iridium ? or is Iridium detection too close to other elements, or too small in content to be singled out ? and what about Osmium ? or Technetium ? B- testing How is Iridium (or Osmium, or Technetium) analysed and tested ? Is there any non-invasive way to test one or more of them, to keep the meteorite as is ? I was sitting here trying my best to remember the name of a type of measurement used to find very small amounts of atoms in materials (as is often the case) it wasn't coming to me. Fortunately I remembered it being described in a book by Walter Alverez called T. rex and the Crater of Doom, searched down my copy and was reminded that it is neutron activation analysis. Good book on the detective work behind the discovery of the iridium (and other rare element) concentrations at the K/T boundary. You should try to get your hands on a copy. You can preview big chunks of it on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=kkHhl67ixwECprintsec=frontcoverdq=rex+and+the+crater+of+doom#PPA66,M1 Use the right-hand search window to search for neutron activation analysis in the book. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_activation_analysis As for technetium, I wouldn't hold my breath about finding much of it. Very short half life, both in human terms for some isotopes (hours to days) and in cosmic terms (at most a few million years, a blink of the eye in the age of a meteorite). The amount (from some googling) produced naturally by uraium decay and neutron absorbtion in molybdenum seems to be vanishingly small. Doesn't look to be much to be a mesurable amount to picked up from the solar wind (though this article is pretty old) http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload/upload/insa/INSA_1/20005aca_407.pdf Here's an article touching on the decay products of technetium in meteorites: http://wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/jnrs/paper/JN63/jn6325.pdf and another: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2004/pdf/1877.pdf __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
